PDA

View Full Version : Which 90hp and why?



Dreamfish
01-09-2005, 11:11 PM
Went to the boat show today and have been left extremely confused about which 90hp motor to consider for my boat (older model seafarer viking). Have basically narrowed it down to either an etec or merc optimax (upgrade to the fancy control unit included for the show). What are your thoughts. The normal 2 stroke is also a hell of a lot cheaper, just to confuse the issue a bit further. HELP ! What are the competition saying about the etec ?

madman1
02-09-2005, 10:12 AM
I have a 90Hp Etec and have had no real dramas. Its great on fuel and whisper quiet. The only problem is with the after sales service, some dealers just take your money and run.

I have since worked out who the good guys are through trial and error i will let you know if you please.

The three year service free option makes a difference cause there are no out of pocket expenses but admitedly you pay a little extra on the initial purchase.

PM me if you need any more details.


Cheers

Mark

Mad_Barry
02-09-2005, 10:45 AM
These are a yr or so old now from a spreadsheet I did up. & were on a post here before the site had a hiccup.

Prices were only approximate from a ring around of the dealers (North QLD), no haggling etc so they may well be a fair bit different now, none of the other data would have changed much. Except maybe the merc & honda 4 strokes are now EFI ? ?

sorted by weight,

Mad_Barry
02-09-2005, 10:47 AM
sorted by engine size,

Mad_Barry
02-09-2005, 10:49 AM
sorted by $

Gbanger
02-09-2005, 10:58 AM
just out of curiosity. what do you think engine capacity has to do with performance? mid range power?

Mad_Barry
02-09-2005, 11:21 AM
The funny/sad thing is, no manufacturers hand out the torque levels and/or a graph showing what/where/& how many revs thing start to happen. In the real world this would be of more use to a consumer picking a boat engine for a particular purpose than a straight out HP rating.

A larger engine size (as in CC), for the same HP rating should mean an easier working engine & possibly more torque. (There are a heap of other tuning variables to factor in as well, so that theory could well be thrown out the door if the full figures were available).

As a comparison an 8litre 300 hp big lazy old truck engine, is a different animal to a 300hp 2 litre highly modified & stressed out small race car engine.

Both are 300hp, with very different characteristics. not to mention the huge size & weight variances. You also have to consider exactly what the purpose of the engine is. as neither would be able to do the others job for a day ;D

This is an extreme example, though sort of relevant. I don't think you could call any of those 90hp engines over stressed given the engine size & output, but would love to compare the torque curves if anyone has them.

Gbanger
02-09-2005, 11:36 AM
someone told me the 90hp johnson 4stroke is actually 99hp as opposed to some other models which are in the 85 range..

its beleiveable considering its a 2 litre block

billfisher
02-09-2005, 02:45 PM
If I was repowering an old boat I'd go for the Tohatsu carby 2 stroke. Its a heap cheaper than the high tech motors, so you are not over capitalising on an old boat (note that there are bigger discounts off the retail price on the carby two stroke motors compared to the high tech models). It is quite easy on fuel, so unless you are trolling all day there is not a huge saving to be made with the high tech motors in the 90 hp class.

scuttlebutt
02-09-2005, 02:46 PM
I heard the Merc/Mariner 90hp engine is actually out of the Ford Focus car. Don't know if it's true but sticks in my mind 'cause i've got the Mariner.

cheers,

steve

Fishin_Dan
02-09-2005, 03:05 PM
I heard the Merc/Mariner 90hp engine is actually out of the Ford Focus car. Don't know if it's true but sticks in my mind 'cause i've got the Mariner.

cheers,

steve

You should get the missus a Ford Focus then for spares! ;)

"Oh no honey... It looks like the cars playing up again... Lucky the boats going well though!" ;D ;D ;D

TonyM
02-09-2005, 03:43 PM
Thanks for putting up your homework Dicko - Great job!

I'm getting a Suzuki 4 Stroke (either 90 or 115) - that's because I'll be using the boat in the fresh as well as the salt and doing a lot of lure chucking. I want to be in stealth mode so I can sneak up on the fishies ;)

Then on comes the Minkota and you're off their radar screen 8-)

2iar
02-09-2005, 04:33 PM
The funny/sad thing is, no manufacturers hand out the torque levels and/or a graph showing what/where/& how many revs thing start to happen. In the real world this would be of more use to a consumer picking a boat engine for a particular purpose than a straight out HP rating.

A larger engine size (as in CC), for the same HP rating should mean an easier working engine & possibly more torque. (There are a heap of other tuning variables to factor in as well, so that theory could well be thrown out the door if the full figures were available).

As a comparison an 8litre 300 hp big lazy old truck engine, is a different animal to a 300hp 2 litre highly modified & stressed out small race car engine.

Both are 300hp, with very different characteristics. not to mention the huge size & weight variances. You also have to consider exactly what the purpose of the engine is. as neither would be able to do the others job for a day ;D

This is an extreme example, though sort of relevant. I don't think you could call any of those 90hp engines over stressed given the engine size & output, but would love to compare the torque curves if anyone has them.




Hi Dicko,

I was asking something linked to what you seem to be getting at here in the thread "Outboard Power" - I never noticed this one til after I posted it.

Could you please cast your eye over that thread and venture an opinion? It would be interesting to hear your thoughts...

Thanks,
Mike

Mad_Barry
02-09-2005, 05:03 PM
Mate, please don't mistake me for some sort of engineer or mechanic ;D

I drive a desk at the moment & just enjoy tinkering with things on the side.

Having not mucked around in small tinnies for ages, it's hard to say whats more suitable.

It looks like you're grasping the choices & the choice is much the same, (probably more so in your situation) a smaller size motor working harder or a larger motor (& extra weight) not working as hard.

Considering they are all a very quick fit, maybe try and find a friendly dealer, explain your concerns & ask to slip one on or the other on & take it for a run.

You'd be far more comfortable in making an informed choice then. ;D

Whiley_Whiting
02-09-2005, 05:21 PM
two editions back Trade a Boat magazine had an article on the best 90 hp engines on the marker, the ETECH and the Optimax (or was that the Suzuki??) were rated evenly out of the field. others tested included the yamaha, merc/mariner, suzuki engines.

Either way, grab a copy of it and have a read. Worth noting that the 90 hp 4 stroke uses stuff all fuel...

revs57
02-09-2005, 08:13 PM
G'day Dreamfish,

I read a report in a recent TBF that compared the 90's. They reckoned the 90 etec was streets in front...a bit dearer, but for all of the reasons in their article including emmission, quietness, warranty, serviceability. I was considering twin 90's to power my 6mt platey in build and talked to my outboard mech. He said to stay away from the 90 mercs...he said that out of all the motors the 75 & 90 mercs had more "just of of warranty work" than any other. He really likes the Tohey's tldi (Tohatsu)for reliability, economy and just raw toughness. Apparently they are releasing a new model at the boat show...don't know if you saw them there...I ended up going for a single 150 but probably would have followed Jon advise...

Best of luck with your project

Rhys

revs57
02-09-2005, 08:15 PM
Sorry Dreamfish...the wiley_whiting is right...the mag wasn't TBf but trade a boat...explains why i couldn't find it in the TBF...certainly worth a read

Good luck

Rhys

Dreamfish
02-09-2005, 11:50 PM
Thanks for all the information. Very much appreciated. Can anybody pass comment on the yamaha 100 4stroke, and although expensive, the Honda 90 (just covering all the bases). I have been told the merc 90hp 4stroke is actually a yamaha top half, so interesting to know what goes on the mercs just out of warranty.
What is the deal with tohatsu. They seem to get a reasonable wrap but don't seem to have the support of many dealerships. How is there after sales service.

revs57
03-09-2005, 08:30 AM
G'day dreamfish,

Neptune Marine on the Sth Side of Brisvegus (6 Carlyle St, Slacks Creek) is a Tohey dealer, and their service is tops. I had a 50 merc on our tinnie and those guys kept it really cracking. I have found their service and advice invaluable. A mate of mine has a cat that had developed a rattle in one of the 70 Johno's, Johnny's mech wrongly diagnosed it, but the guys at Neptune got it right and my mate is stoked to have his boat back quick smart and in time for his trip to 1770 (He's there now). Johnny said the Neptune guys picked up on a couple of other maintenence issues that had been overlooked as well. I would concur with their thoroughness.

I have the trailer boat article on the 90's if you have trouble locating it...email me your adress to rhys@carewerx.com and I'll send you a photo copy snail mail

Regards
Rhys

revs57
03-09-2005, 11:53 AM
My Mech didn't say what, but he just passed the comment when I said what I was looking at "we do more just out of warranty work on 75 & 90 (2 stroke)Mercs than any other brand". I'm aware from an earlier converstation with him that there was an issue on the earlier series through the 1990's with stator and electrics. Now that being said, I had a 2001 model 50 merc on the back of a 15ft tinnie that I've recently sold, and I put 300 trouble free hours on it - it was a ripper... and I've just picked up a 2005, 2 hr old 150 efi merc for my new boat...I guess you have to weigh it up...if you have a large market share and more units per head of population...of course there is a greater risk of warranty work being done...I guess we all hear about the lemons hey

Coke
03-09-2005, 02:14 PM
Does anyone think the cc to weight ratio have any great bearing? eg Yamy 90 hp @ 122.5kg /1140cc & Johnson 90hp@ 152kg / 1726cc


Cheers

youngfisho
03-09-2005, 02:41 PM
I think the johno 90 2 stroke is a v4. Therefore more pistons, more block and just a bigger engine all together. The yammie is a 3cyl 2 stroke less weight due to smaller engine (ie cylinder count). One would expect that a 90 with 1140 cc and a 90 with 1726 the later would have more torque than the smaller capacity engine. Even though the prop hp is 90 as someone else made mention that no one publishes torque figures. Which in most cases is more important than overall hp. Because most outboards produce their specified hp at a certain rpm which often doesn't get used. My johno 99 model 2 stroke 70hp has a limit of 5500 rpm, I generally run at 4200 rpm for a cruise of 20 - 22 knots. I would imagine that this area around 3800 to 4200 is where the engine is producing better torque. And running at its most efficient. not every one drives around flat out and uses that 90hp so choose the motor which will best suit your boat. ie a light 17ft boat should work well with a smaller displacement but an older heavier 17 footer may need more cubic capacity to get it up out of the hole. there are 90's and there are 90's cubic capacity does play a big part in how well a boat runs.

luggo
04-09-2005, 06:53 PM
I've got a suzy 90 , just done 200 hrs, a great motor. Runs on a 7.3 mtr fiberglass centre console longboat style boat, cruises at 22knt 4000 rpm uses 13 litres /hr at this.