Smallest bar crossing offshore fishing boat?

[whichway]

Ok

What is the smallest boat that you would buy if you wanted to regularly cross a fairly serious coastal bar (say South Passage, not Noosa or the Seaway) and go out to Deep Tempest (about 25ks past that). Now I know you can cross the bar in a 12 ft tinny at times, but you wouldn't regularly be going out to Deep Tempest in it. And you could go out to Deep Tempest in a 4.5m boat (if you could carry the amount of fuel) from Bribie, but I'm thinking you probably would want something bigger if you were going to cross the bar regularly.
So if you wanted to be able to go out over the bar on a falling tide, half way down, 1.5m swell and below, northern entrence, and chug out to Deep Tempest, and then come back again without knocking the fillings out or needing a change of underwear, what size boat would you buy. Any comments would be appreciated.

Whichway

PS I know this is very SEQ specific, please feel free to translate it to your own location. I read stories about going offshore a long way in 4.5 metre boats in NQ, and my view is that while this may be reasonably safe (it probably gets too uncomfortable a long time before it gets dangerous), I just don't think that this size boat is right for serious bar crossing.

[reeldreamer]

In my opinion it is not the size of the boat that is important but the skipper's ability to attack and pull off a safe crossing of the bar. I have a 6.1m boat and that is getting to the larger end of a trailable boats and i still get my sh1t rattled in rough or lumpy seas! Your question is a valid one though i don't think you will find complete comfort in only the size of the boat you are skippering!

[mackmauler]

whichway, are you aware of the "mackmauler" ;D

[philip_thomson]

whichway, are you aware of the "mackmauler" ;D

ah hah hah hah so true rob. you will do almost anything in that boat. whens the trip to New Zealand lol.

[whichway]

In my opinion it is not the size of the boat that is important but the skipper's ability to attack and pull off a safe crossing of the bar. .... I don't think you will find complete comfort in only the size of the boat you are skippering!

Good point, assume skipper has reasonable competence


whichway, are you aware of the "mackmauler" ;D

Um did I read that it is a 5m go anywhere machine #:)

Nothing wrong with that - The bar crossing performance would be the thing I would be interested in.

Whichway

[fishin_till_late]

Got a pic of the "Mackmauler"? Id love to know wot it looks like

[mackmauler]

no pics but its between 4-4.5m. see ya on the bar in 2-3m swell 8-)

[fishin_till_late]

And i thought i had some crazy fellow boaties. Well good luck crossing those bars in that weather. I wonder if they would be anything left of you if you lived in New Orleans?

[Burley_Boy]

Sounds like you'd have to do your poll based on a standard hull design or something, obviously an 8M Houseboat would not be a ripper yet robs lil cylinder would get you there n back n wet I suppose too.
Heres a pick of the Mauler, hope you don't mind Rob.

[Punkin]

4.3 Webster ;D

[GBC]

G'day - I did a few trips to tempest and beyond in a 4.5m polycraft.Looong trip at 18MPH. That boat also fished off Noosa Mooloolaba, Caloundra, Minnie Water, Fraser, Hervey Bay, 1770 etc. Carried the fuel easy - 50hp 4str. Like what evryone else says - it's your ability to read the sea and more importantly your ability to say NO when looking at a bar that saves you, rather than the particular boat - they all have they're limits and if you're willing to find them, you will become a statistic.

[chemmy]

yew Rob whats that goofy looking silver thing on the back of ya boat the good ones are grey ;D

[reeldreamer]

Shut up Chemmy at least rob can count!

[Billo]

i could not push as hard as the mauler , but my 4.35 seajay has done more open water work then rivers #!!!

Yes i would like a bigger boat , but it gets me out there quite often

tiller steer 40 2 stroke on the back ..usually carry 65 litres , but 85 on a big trip day , it does take up a bit of room . but you don't need much as long as your stuff is ORGANISED

crossed Noosa , Mooloolaba , Caloundra , South passage , Jumpinpin , southport and tweed .

[finding_time]

i
crossed Noosa , Mooloolaba , Caloundra , South passage , Jumpinpin , southport and tweed .


Billo What about pincushion!!! gees you have to get out more. :D

[cheno]

I have also a 4.55 polycraft, fish offshore regularly and am still alive ;D

So far I have crossed the tweed, the seaway and south passage in it. I have done the run from Bribie to tempest and beyond in it and also fish the Barwons and Cal wide in it regularly running 50km offshore from Mooloolaba. Its a long way but you just have to be patient, slow down and wait it out. In summer its cool cos you can allways throw out a couple of hex heads while you are steaming along.

Running a long way offshore is okay while the weather is good but but you are really betting that it won't blow hard from the west while you are out there, anything from the east doesn't bother me. We got nailed with 25knots of SE last year wide off the goldy and it was ugly and wet but not dangerous in my opinion. However a raging north westerly, a few big ones dumping into the cockpit and it might be a very different story. If something really bad happens wind wise then you need to be flexible and have enough fuel to change plans dramatically and run to a port that requires a better heading to the sea. You can always hitch back to the car ;D I typically use only half of the 100l that I carry on a big day which leaves a lot left in the tank for alternative arrangements. Thunderstorms are also a real worry coming into summer. Have been caught out at the trench in my old 4.3m centre console with a lot of storms around - a bit unerving to say the least.

I guess all this means choosing your fishing days carefully and being prepared to turn around if things are marginal. Work allows me to take time off during the week so I can take fewer risks by fishing when the weather is generally good.

It is slow and wet if conditions are bad but is is a reasonably comfortable boat (not too much pounding) and I consider it pretty safe. Full foam floatation would be a bonus as it is not self-draining. Also many "self-draining" boats may still capsize when full of water because the floor has been made too high. Unlike the unlike the "MV mackmauler" for example which will stay right way up when swamped. I'm not sure what the poly would do when swamped, have to try it one day.

I rekon if you are patient, have really good wet weather gear and are prepared to be flexible, fishing out of small boats offshore can be very rewarding and relatively inexpensive. The good thing being that you can then fish more days per year, because they are so cheap to run.

cheno

[gavsgonefishing]

4.3 markham whaler (now around 5.3) over the noosa bar only at this stage, but picked the days.

Been out mixing it with the big boys in 20+ knots, its not nice and definately dont recommend it. The tricky bit is chasing the billy's dowN and watching the swell direction.

Go to the hards from noosa or mool, to cal wide or the banks all in the same day, dont really care, av trip 70-80nm, some trips 100-110nm.

Once set up looking at the shelf for heavy tackle, dreamin at the moment but far chance or it happening.

[fishin_till_late]

the Mackmauler looks like it gets abit of a work out. How far do you take that little boat out?

[StevenM]

I have a 4.5 Blue Fin. I have been at the tweed when it has been real messy and no one wanted to go. So sat and watched the sets come in and away we went. Started a road train like you wouldnt belive. Must have annoyed all the big flash boys.

Been up at 1770 in 3 metre slop and the big boats didnt want to come out and play either.

South West rocks out to fish rock in shitty conditions with no one else out there.

And many other places including Stanage.

So it comes down to what you are comfortable with and know how your boat handles. Dont get too confident as it will get you unstuck. At times I dont belive that the size of the boat has anything to do with it. What you really need on those ugly days is the HP to get you out of trouble as the swell can suck you up big time.

Hi Yo has almost clocked up 1000 nauticle miles in 16 months and none of that has been fishing in rivers or sheltered waters. Shit she hasnt been to the pin yet.

Be careful, if you are unsure or have doubt stay in the river. It might look ok now but what is it going to be like when you come home.

Cheers Steven

[bkksteve]

Hey this has been interesting stuff...Where do you get the right info re crossing of bars or is it a matter of gaining experience by just doing it?.Are there certain rules that some of you use as a guide, what are your best bar crossing tips? Eager to learn... :)

[TonyM]

Hey this has been interesting stuff...Where do you get the right info re crossing of bars or is it a matter of gaining experience by just doing it?.Are there certain rules that some of you use as a guide, what are your best bar crossing tips? Eager to learn... :)

This is a brilliant thread!

bkksteve - There are bar crossing courses and that's certainly what I intend to do. I need to find out if anyone does one near here (Hervey Bay)

Also from what I've heard (and makes sense) is that it's an extremely good idea to go out with someone who is experienced at least the first few times.

There's several pointers that I've been told and have read online, but I'll leave it to the guys with experience to go through that stuff (e.g. Stay on back of wave, use the motor trim correctly etc)

[Punkin]

Hey this has been interesting stuff...Where do you get the right info re crossing of bars or is it a matter of gaining experience by just doing it?.Are there certain rules that some of you use as a guide, what are your best bar crossing tips? Eager to learn... :)


Tip #1; A run-in tide is always best, specially on the way out 8-)

[JB]

I'd have to disagree with reel dreamer, sure there is the skippers ability / experience to look at, but deep tempest from manly is a long way , and to do that weekly trip i would be wanting something a little more comfortable and safer than a 4.5 tinny. Fact is , on a great day a 4.5 would do the job, but how many days have we all been out and bom has got it wrong .. only for the weather to turn nasty. I'd be lookin at a min of a 5 metre, plate or glass. After all were not all as crazy as Rob ;)

[Billo]

Billo #What about pincushion!!! gees you have to get out more. :D



not too much more bar crossing for me !
Moved to bribie ....just a wide open bay and a few banks to dodge !

[finding_time]

Gees i don't no billo, that bottom corner of the passage on a run out tide and a brisk se blowing is probably worse than most bar crossings!! :D ;) ;D

[StevenM]

A self draining fully sealed deck would be nice, if not the biggest bilge pump you can fit under the deck, if you can fit a 3000gph pump under there do it.

[JASE1]

quinny 420 dory many many trips out south passage and seaway and tweed and a couple of trips to musgrave battled some massive seas in this boat and the thought"fuk we shouldent be out here"
has come to mind many times but it always got us home
a reoccuring keel split ended its service after two years

[AaronF]

If you wanna go real small then buy a rubber duck, you'll get out in a 12' in any seas with a 25hp on the back. #You will be wet, miserable and unlikely to want to gaff the big Spaniard you just caught but it will handle anything you can throw at it. #For me if you want something glass them a 5m is as small as you want. #If you're prepared for a bit more bone crunching then you can scale down to ally 4.5m boat and if you want something really safe buy a barcrusher or the like in this size. #Sure you can go offshore in a 10ft tinny but unless you really know what you're doing it isn't much fun. #I've been out through bars in a 2m swell in a 10.5' open tinny with a 15hp O/B and felt safe but each and everyone on the boat could swim 5k and had surfed for 10 years so knew what the waves were doing. #Going bigger won't catch you more fish but it will make you less wet, your guests more comfortable, your wallet lighter and petrol stations happier. #Glass is always more comfortable than Ally but needs more power and in turn that means more fuel. #The ultimate boat around 4-5M is the one you can afford to run every weekend and feel somewhat safe in, what that is can only be decided by you.

[grumpyoldman]

There's an old saying..."It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!!". I've done a lot of bar work in Victoria - Mallacoota, Lakes Entrance, Port Welshpool,etc., all of which, on a bad day, make South Passage and the Seaway look pretty good. I started with a 4.75 Steber, then went to a Haines 17C and both were great. Small boats, with sufficient (and well-maintained) donks can often be safer for bar crossing than big, slow boats 'cos you've got the advantage of being able to "duck 'n weave". Believe me, NOTHING beats instant engine response when you really need it - without that, you're at least very wet and at worst very dead!!! The other major factor is driver skill and that's where guys like Bill Corten earn their money. The $360-odd that Bill charges is very cheap insurance. 8-)