Cat problem

[troy]

Has anyone got any ideas of ways to keep cats out of your boat.
troy

[megafish71]

Shoot them :-X Did I say that, ;D ;D

[familyman]

Troy keep a water pistol at the ready and nail the vermin when it does it >:(
cheers jon....(dog person)

[westie]

ORANGES ......... Cats hate the smell for some reason.
If it is your own then scrape the skin of the orange and hold it front of it a couple of times and then put the left over in a bucket in the boat. If it continues rub it's nose in it. you should only have to do this a couple of times and make sure you don't leave bait in the boat and even put some Pine-o-clean ORANGE sented one on the inside of the boat ot hide the fish smells. Not sure if you can get Orange Essence that may work.

[Sniper]

Or just get a dog!! ;D

[gunna]

Put a tarp on top of it.

[PinHead]

Hire my dog..she hates cats and possums..makes very quick work of them..might leave some fur and blood around but the cat problem will end very quickly.

[phewy]

Brave stuff mate. Some reading for some of you sickies. #
http://www.childresearch.net/RESOURCE/NEWS/2000/200003.HTM

Is there any evidence of a connection between animal cruelty and human violence?

Absolutely. Many studies in psychology, sociology, and criminology during the last 25 years have demonstrated that violent offenders frequently have childhood and adolescent histories of serious and repeated animal cruelty. The FBI has recognized the connection since the 1970s, when its analysis of the lives of serial killers suggested that most had killed or tortured animals as children. Other research has shown consistent patterns of animal cruelty among perpetrators of more common forms of violence, including child abuse, spouse abuse, and elder abuse. In fact, the American Psychiatric Association considers animal cruelty one of the diagnostic criteria of conduct disorder.

Why would anyone be cruel to animals?

There can be many reasons. Animal cruelty, like any other form of violence, is often committed by a person who feels powerless, unnoticed, and under the control of others. The motive may be to shock, threaten, intimidate, or offend others or to demonstrate rejection of society's rules. Some who are cruel to animals copy things they have seen or that have been done to them. Others see harming an animal as a safe way to get revenge on someone who cares about that animal.

Sickos :-[
Hope you're not one of them Troy. Heaps of remedies available.
P.S -I'm a dog lover, and cats...dont hate them. Like em or leave em alone. Especially when their someones pets!

[PG]

Your local council may have traps that you can borrow to trap the animals with and they will usually take the cats away to the pound or similar place. If the cats are someone's pets, they have a chance of getting them back to look after them properly. If they are strays then you'll be doing the local wildlife a favour by removing a non-natural predator.
I have a deep-seeded hate for cats but I don't let it cloud my better judgement for control of pests, or cruelty to animals in any form.
Back to the issue at hand though...I have heard of people putting small containers of cloudy ammonia nearby to deter cats but remember if you have small children this is probably not a good choice.
The tarp idea sounds good in theory but I had a new boat cover ripped to shreds by cats who decided that on that nice soft springy thing over that boat, was a good place to take a quiet nap and then a claw and stretch when ya wake up. Needless to say it didn't last long. A better option might be a net over the boat, I can't imagine it would be too easy for acat to walk on a net. Some of that bird netting available at hardware shops might do the trick or see if you can get hold of an old piece of trawler net.
I'm on phewy's side a little here, don't be cruel to the smelly little sh*ts but don't give in to them either! They're trespassing on your boat for god's sake...sacred ground if ya ask me ! >:(

[Duyz72]

When you clean your boat, put some tea tree oil, eucalyptus oil or citronella in the polish, any new cats to your boat will have a sniff around and will hate it. Of course if the cats who already know and love your boat as a nice warm and dry place to sleep might not be so easily deterred. A tarp is always a good thing, keeps the leaves out too!

[bungie]

Good chance they can smell your old bait. My cat knows I have been fishing and knows the orange esky has the bait in it, will sit and whine its head off until I give him some.

Weak vinegar/water mix will kill the smell. Also vanilla essence does too


I agree with the above, don't pumble the pussy. Just get it to move on.

[Stu]

Try sprinkling a bit of pepper around where the cat is getting in. Works a treat.
Cheers
Stu

[gunna]

Your The tarp idea sounds good in theory but I had a new boat cover ripped to shreds by cats who decided that on that nice soft springy thing over that boat, was a good place to take a quiet nap and then a claw and stretch when ya wake up.

OK - what about a tarp with a few strategicaly placed mouse traps. That works a treat when you want to teach them to stay off the furniture - so I have read [smiley=devil.gif] [smiley=devil.gif]

[troy]

Phewy i have a dog and i also have a fence -why should i have to put up with other peoples cats that p ss in your boat and car.
If people want to have a cat that is fine but let them do the damage to there vehicles.
troy

[coasty]

i had the same problem and before anyone says im cruel consider the fact i sent $1000.00 respraying the bonnet after 2 fought on it.
i just shot them. yes i am in a built up area but after a week of them meowing outside all night . i have also asked the owners to keep them in but that would keep them awake.
in the last 6 months i have now trapped 9 cats and taken them to the local council to have them put down.
i may be cruel but i like my sleep.

[phewy]

Phewy i have a dog and i also have a fence -why should i have to put up with other peoples cats that p ss in your boat and car.
If people want to have a cat that is fine but let them do the damage to #there vehicles.
troy

Just try the humane options offered. They will work. What sort of dog do you have that won't chase or scare non friendly cats away. Maybe you could train it to do so. Cats wont come in our yard cos our BC will just chase it away as soon as she see's it. Thinks its a game or work. And it certainly wouldn't harm the cat if it did manage to catch it. The fun part for her is the chasing, natural instinct for a BC or other types of working/sheep dogs. But any dog can be trained to do similar.

[grumpyoldman]

My ol' granpappy used to put small tins (like tuna, etc) in his garden, set at ground level and half-full of cloudy ammonia - it REALLY freaks 'em out. Probably other stuff like orange essence, citronella, would work well too but try taking a sniff of cloudy ammonia # :o #boy, does it make your eyes water, so you can imagine the effect on an animal with many times better sniffers than us # #;D ;D. If you put them in the boat, you shouldn't have any problems with small kids getting to it and I'll bet the pesky felines will stay WELL away.

[ancienttinnie]

The simple answer is the one I like most - remove the cat - I have spent many years out in the bush, before I started fishing, and have learned to hate uncontrolled cats. Shooting them is not cruel, I do not believe in cruelty, it is humane quick instant and does solve the problem. Pity owners of said cats can't be made to pay for the damage and mayhem their cats cause. >:(

[PinHead]

Phewy...I am not cruel to animals..but just cos my dog does not like them is not my problem...the dog is fenced in...if someone cannot keep their cat in their premises it is not my problem..I have to license my dog...cannot let it roam etc etc but bloody cat owners can let them roam and never have to license them so I do not really care about the cats that enter someone elses property and do damage to their property.

[phewy]

Sounds like it is entertainment to you Pinhead. What and no encouragement from you either I spose.
Dogs that attack and kill small animals could sooner or later attack a small child if given the chance. Do you want some dog training tips.

[gunna]

in the last 6 months i have now trapped 9 cats and taken them to the local council to have them put down.
i may be cruel but i like my sleep.

Not at all cruel. You are removing strays. And they are obviously strays. No responsible owner would simply let their cat wander at night.

[phewy]

Yeh not cruel at all. If the owners are responsible enough to have them registered, chipped etc they can claim them back, if not they will be put down humanely. But blasting 2 defenseless animals away cos they scratched a car bonnet??? Sad stuff indeed.

$1000 bucks to respray a bonnet with just scratch damage??

[PinHead]

Sounds like it is entertainment to you Pinhead. What and no encouragement from you either I spose.
Dogs that attack and kill small animals could sooner or later attack a small child if given the chance. Do you want some dog training tips.


"The fun part for her is the chasing, natural instinct for a BC or other types of working/sheep dogs"

I do not encourage her to do it and nor is it entertaining...never seen her do it...only the results...but it is a natural instinct just the same as herding is for a BC.

I have shown dogs to several Australian Championships as well as some obedience titles but sure..i am keen to learn some more dog training..always keen to listen.

As for harming kids...another trait of the breed is that they are extremely loyal to their family...she adores my grandson..other dogs of the same breed and one other breed I had when my kids were growing up were fantastic with them..I always make sure I only have pedigree dogs..no cross breeds...therefore you have a pretty good idea of the temperment to start with..the rest comes with the training.

[phewy]

What sort of breed are we talking about here that naturally rips a smaller animal to shreds? So she is fine with your grandson and presumably with other known youngsters. But what if an unknown toddler were to somehow gain access to your dogs territory without you there, can you honestly say that after seeing the results of what the dog is capable of doing to small animals that you could trust it?

[Zeeke]

after reading all the posts ere.. i really gotta suggest a shotgun up the moggys clacka... quick and painless... anything left... its a simple hose down job..

Tim

[Sportfish_5]

Obviously that cat wants a trip out on the boat 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)

[PinHead]

What sort of breed are we talking about here that naturally rips a smaller animal to shreds? So she is fine with your grandson and presumably with other known youngsters. But what if an unknown toddler were to somehow gain access to your dogs territory without you there, can you honestly say that after seeing the results of what the dog is capable of doing to small animals that you could trust it?

Yes..I can honestly say she will not harm any person unless you attack one of the family...I did say that I have shown her..quite used to strange people handling her ...adults and kids..always socialise my dogs from when they are pups.

Any of the hound group of dogs will use their natural hunting instincts..afghan hounds, bassets, beagles, whippets, rhodesian ridgebacks, greyhounds (they make superb pets), harriers, etc etc etc the same as working dogs use their natural instincts for herding etc..wanna know which group of dogs causes the most bites to judges and others at dog shows...toys...chis, maltese, poms etc.

[PinHead]

after reading all the posts ere.. i really gotta suggest a shotgun up the moggys clacka... quick and painless... anything left... its a simple hose down job..

Tim
LOL..... but don't forget to wear ear muffs..might damage the hearing

[PinHead]

and BC's have a higher bite rate than most dogs..they are bred to bite the heels of cattle...as well as kids when they herd them.

Gotta love statistics....can make them say anything you want...I admit to wishing to being a serial killer..I wish someone would murder Neighbours..as for wife bashing and child abuse..nah..not into that...inteferes too much in the serial killing time allocation.

Stastistics also state that people who own working dogs have an inate dream of living in the country and going on wild roo shooting campaigns and that they thrive on watching old episodes of Rawhide and also a penchant for John Wayne movies.

[PinHead]

well troy..have we solved your problem yet? or are you outside armed with the orange skins..the shotgun..the dog..lookout..Rambo of the North on the loose.

[Big_Kev]

That was entertaining reading this thread.
You guys crack me up sometimes. ;D ;D ;D
I will have to call Australia's Most Wanted and tell them I know where the serial killers hang out. LOL. :o

[troy]

Pinhead problem not solved as my dog cannot get at the cat as the carport where i keep my boat is fenced off.
Mate i agree with you if people want to let there cats roam into other peoples property and they happened to get ripped apart then tough luck.
These bloody cats ruined the roof of one of my kids car a few years ago and i have no sympathy for cats what so ever.
Thanks for all the advise.
troy

[gunna]

Back to the original question. Todays "Natural Solutions" column in the paper has a reader asking advice about keeping wandering cats from crapping in their garden. The advice is grind a bulb of garlic, mix it with a teaspoon of cayenne chilli (cats hate chilli) and a litre of warm water. Let it sit for two hours then strain it into a spray bottle and spray it where you want to repel the cat. Might be worth a try.

I would still trap the buggers though.

[Rev]

Very interesting indeed.

I can see where you are coming from phewy, a cruel streak is a cruel streak. E.O.S.

Some progress, some don't, but the tendency is still there!

There are plenty of more natural type remedies available as shown by the considerate and thinking people involved in this topic.

[Duyz72]

Phewey - seems like U got a bee in your bonnet and I am sure you have your reasons but what your last post was over the line.

I propose that the moderator please remove that post and have a word with Phewey?

Phewey if you get banned because of it, I would fully support that decision.

[Duyz72]

Also, folks let's get real

This is not a forum for point scoring, chest beating or comparing at the trough

It is after all a family site, please keep your trifle mood feuds off this site?

[bidkev]

Obviously that cat wants a trip out on the boat #8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)

It's not having any of *my* blow! ;) ;D

kev

[bidkev]

Please help! :-[ My boat is infested with mice :'( Does anyone have any idea as to how I can get rid of them ;) ;D

kev

[stingermuz]

First up, I applaud you Troy for asking the question here, obviously looking for a workable solution instead of just shooting it.

Lots of cat-bashing goin on around here (not just in this thread). Also some dog-bashing (20kg variety).

I had a cat on the bonnet problem a couple of years ago and sprinkling pepper on the bonnet solved it. They pick up the pepper on their fur and then when they have a bath (lick their fur) they get the pepper in their mouth - Yuk.

PLease guys... if you're going to kill cats follow Coasty's method and take them to the council. Responsible cat owners whose cats have accidently escaped for the night (or day) will have had them microchipped. Just imagine how you'd feel if someone stole your dog to "blood" his fighting dog. I mean REALLY imagine it. Imagine your dog being killed by someone else in a strange place while it screams out for you to help it but you're miles away at home and you don't come.

Muz.

[cabfisher]

Yes if people want to have there darlin pets ,Keep it in there own yard and keep it quite I do know what you guts are puting up with I dont have a problem now but My wife Bless her Dislikes these rotten Rodents Craping in her Garden ( Pride & joy ) we dont do anything to you People who keep these disease spreading things .
The trap asend it to the council sounds like a good idear
I here that the council dose Hire traps refunderbul when returned
Cheers

[damons33]

2 bobs......what kind of parent lets a toddler wander off unsupervised? there are things more deadly then dogs, like cars....mmmmmmm.
:-/


if you own a cat and don't own an enclosure that ensures its' containment to your own property, don't cry foul when its runover, baited or shot in the head!. don't site somebody elses cruelty issues for your own irresponsiblity. some people can be killed by a cat scratch, if you want to own something then look after it........
and that means an enclosure at about $1000 out of fishing net, poles and pegs. this protect indigenous critters like rosellas and guarantees you done the "right thing" as a responsible cat owner....here a paradox for you cat lovers? if my budgie fly's over the niebours fence and their cat kills it, who's responsible for the deth of me budgie?
most guys love pussys' they are very cute.
:P
damon

[stingermuz]

Hi damons33's, At the risk of being labelled a "catlover", you've answered your paradox in your own post...

" if my budgie fly's over the niebours fence". #preceeded by this,

"if you own a cat [BUDGIE] and don't own an enclosure that ensures its' containment to your own property, don't cry foul when its [eaten by the neighbours' cat]..."

You can make an enclosure for a cat for very cheap - a few coppers logs and some aviary wire. #Cat's are pretty clever though and may sometimes escape (eg. thru the legs of visitors at the front door), hence the main thrust of my previous post where I said, "Responsible cat owners whose cats have accidently escaped for the night (or day) will have had them microchipped."

Muz.

[billfisher]

As far as I know it is not illegal to let a cat roam off your property, except for certain areas near bushland where there is a night curfue to protect native animals. Other than that I think they rarely do any harm. #Also unlike dogs it is difficult to confine them to your property once they are outdoors. Actually I'd be more worried about some redneck discharging a firearm in a built up area which is definitely illegal. #Even just talking about it would be enough for an AVO and the confiscation of firearms. #If a cat is causing a persist problem then the council may intervine. This is better than winding up in court yourself or making an enemy out of your neighbours for the next few decades.

[phewy]

Phewey - seems like U got a bee in your bonnet and I am sure you have your reasons but what your last post was over the line.

I propose that the moderator please remove that post and have a word with Phewey?

Phewey if you get banned because of it, I would fully support that decision.

Don't think so bud! For what?? Statistics are statistics. Just stating the percentages of what these sort of people end up being. Anyway I've come to the conclusion that these big action heros are just all talk. Sort of people that if anything threatened them with a shotgun up the a**e or similar you would soon see a large puddle forming between their legs. That right fellas? Even the thought probably makes them need to change their pants. Weak bastards.
Hey, I'm just against cruelty to defenseless animals is all, when there are obviously better options available, as shown by the more mature of us. Troy, If your too lazy to try these options then so be it. Do what you will.

[damons33]

phewy- i agree with alot of you say.....but it is off course to the posting. as hypocritical as that maybe for me to say!
:o

billfisher- is it hard to put a leash on the cat whilest opening the the door? that would be the responsible thing to do.
:-?

heres what you can do to make the owner think more responsibly, and i feel if the law was to confinement to the owers property, we would see a lot of reductions in costs to ratepayers/taxpayers for the stray and feral cat problem in this country.
make them the same as for dogs- to me that would be a form of "equality" to pet owners.
currently if you own a cat and it runs out on to a road, a driver swerves to miss the poor critter and has an accident due the the evasive manovering, the cat owner is liable for the damage to that vehicle!
'here is an excert of some of the current local gov laws that apply to troy's issue with the lovely feline bundle of joy. garnered from the net- it taught me how to spell neibour properly!
:D



. If your neighbour chooses to take your animal to the Pound rather than to you, it will cost you a considerable fine to reclaim your cat. If the cat is not registered and chipped you will have to pay these costs plus boarding fees before being able to reclaim your animal. If your animal is not desexed it will cost you even more.

But unlike such everyday human actions as owning a car, working with power tools, having a social gathering, learning an instrument or playing TV or stereo - all of which impact inevitably on neighbours, but which are regarded as matters of mutual tolerance, owning a Cat is categorised as requiring special permission from the entire neighbourhood.
ns sherlock!
::)
damon

[PinHead]

Phewey - seems like U got a bee in your bonnet and I am sure you have your reasons but what your last post was over the line.

I propose that the moderator please remove that post and have a word with Phewey?

Phewey if you get banned because of it, I would fully support that decision.

Don't think so bud! For what?? Statistics are statistics. Just stating the percentages of what these sort of people end up being. Anyway I've come to the conclusion that these big action heros are just all talk. Sort of people that if anything threatened them with a shotgun up the a**e or similar you would soon see a large puddle forming between their legs. That right fellas? Even the thought probably makes them need to change their pants. Weak bastards.
Hey, I'm just against cruelty to defenseless animals is all, when there are obviously better options available, as shown by the more mature of us. Troy, If your too lazy to try these options then so be it. Do what you will.

Good ol' statistics...you can make numbers say anything you want..pollies spindoctors are experts at that.

Not into guns..have no need for one..never have done and hopefully never will do.

Do you go fishing..based on that statement that could be a complete new topic..cruelty to defenceless animals...oops..damn PETA have already started on that one

[troy]

Phewy i have got Billfisher saying that cats do not #do much harm and i have you calling me lazy.
I really believe without any hesitation that both of you are prepared to ignore the damage that cats do to other peoples property but i wonder if it was to happen to your property then what would you do [-say good pussy.]
troy
My opinion on cats is if you want one make sure you can keep the thing in your own yard.
I think that is fair as no one forces you to own a cat.
Troy

[PG]

Back to the point of discussion that all this started from........

Check these sites out,

http://www.odordestroyer.com/news/story14/
http://www.care2.com/channels/solutions/outdoors/820
http://www.drjeffnichol.com/cat/faqs/yard.html
http://www.spcaonline.com/catsinyard.PDF

...there's a few. I saw mothballs pop up frequently as a deterent but not worth the risk if young chilkdren visit your place or could see them as they might look like lollies.
Good luck !

[billfisher]

I think some people are resorting to making things up. So far we have heard about lethal scratching, traffic mayhem and the spread of plague and pestilence.
Most of the problems with roaming cats can be avoided by keeping them indoors at night. This is when they they tend to fight, run out on the road and attack wildlife. Also a bell around their neck is a good idea to warn the wildlife. Keeping them indoors 24/7 is an unecessary and impractical restriction. You can't put them in the same class as dogs. They don't attack people or tip over rubbish bins for instance.
It's already law that they must be chipped and desexed so I don't know why this has been brought up.

[phewy]

Do you go fishing..

So happens I do go fishing. Use barb-less hooks and trebles, use a fine mesh net or wet towell always and make sure the fish swim away. If a hook wont come out with ease I will cut the line. If I do inadvertently injure a fish I will kill it humanely ASAP and if possible save it for the table. If not for the table, then for bait. Will not waste it. #Little bit different to blowin a cat away with a shotgun or setting a viscous dog onto a smaller defenseless animal for kicks dont you think. And Troy - I dont get you. You obviously dont want to try these other methods mentioned. #:-/ . If you want to have a laugh at the cats expense then try the water pistol method mentioned. Worked for me with a cat I once owned. Cat was fine and after some drenching never ventured into that certain part of the garden again. Simple as that.

And didnt call you lazy. Said If you are too lazy to try.....

[MikeC]

Try citrus-based sprays. Cats don't like lemon and orange. Plenty of pump packs available, though I have to admit I dunno where my wife buys them :)

Phewy, there's been so many foolish posts on here. I'm with you all the way, but I won't rise to their crappy bait.

MikeC

[DR]

you can also buy cat repellant pellets at your local pet shop, just sprinkle them around where you don't want the cat to go.. supposedly work, will find out soon, as my neighbour has a cat that has decided the side of my house is a big litter tray, & every other cat in the neighbourhood thinks that it is the local fightclub... i think i will need to get it to stop before my kettle dog pup gets big enough to be able to roam around the whole yard, as it's natural instinct will make it want to play with the nice pussy, although i am hoping i can train it to be like my last dog & ignore all other animals.

[troy]

Please help! :-[ My boat is infested with mice :'( Does anyone have any idea as to how I can get rid of them #;) ;D

kev
Kingtin i will give you the cat.
Troy

[rajawolf]

Here pussy pussy.... [smiley=iloveyou.gif] #[smiley=angel.gif]

[Wyoming]

OK then - consensus would suggest the following as a sure bet:
First - polish the boat with some citronella and eucalyptus oil, mixed with a little vinegar and water.
Second - Remove all traces of bait, then put a dog in the boat together with a bucket of water, pepper, vanilla essense and some loaded mouse traps.
Finally - #put a tarp over the boat and lie in wait with a fully loaded water pistol filled with orange juice, ready to pounce at any given moment.

It may be easier to live with the cat inside the boat...

[billfisher]

You forgot to mention the armed response recommended by some of our friends from the deep north. I don't know if they realise that shotgun pellets could really mess up the gelcoat, but I suppose they will just call that collateral damage.

[gunna]

Nah - you just replace the shotgun pellets with course salt. Problem solved.

[DaneCross]

A few sprays of Ammonia will have your problem sorted :)

[JB]

Ammonia hey? :-/ , are u sure about that DC?

[DaneCross]

Mate, my Grandma is a wise lady. If she rekons it keeps the cats away, I'll believe her ;)

[damons33]

once i salted off some striped tuna fillets in the back yard, and was amazed to see some stray cat in my yard froffin' at the mouth as it stubbled around in a delierium!
with further investigation it became apparent it had eaten copious amounts of the salted tuna, to it's own detriment. i offered it a bucket of water but within half an hour it was all legs up, so nothing much to do or say as i shut the lid on the wheelie bin. poor thing had no collar,etc, so i didn't ask about if any body had lost their poor moggy. sometimes you pay a shocking price for your irresponsiblity and neglect of your loving pets. i hope the law changes soon to stop these irresponsibles from owning such lovely pets and not doing the right thing by them.

damon

[bidkev]

Please help! :-[ My boat is infested with mice :'( Does anyone have any idea as to how I can get rid of them #;) ;D

kev
Kingtin i will give you the cat.
Troy

Thank you Troy...........I am a bit short of crab bait ;)

kev

[troy]

You forgot to mention the armed response recommended by some of our friends from the deep north. I don't know if they realise that shotgun pellets could really mess up the gelcoat, but I suppose they will just call that collateral damage.
Billfisher where is the deep north and what is the name of the movie.
Pussy Galore.
007 [smiley=evilgrin.gif]

[Kiktz]

Rubber Bands and Unails


Only joking..........

Use Ctirus sprays they work really well

[mako_5.2]

Crabs like cats

[MIKOS]

I hate cats Troy,

Had one not so long ago pissing in my new boat and sleeping on top of my car and had tried several things like shooing it away and the so called natural therapeis.Nothing worked better than the old lead therapy ;D.
This thing was coming around in the day and trying to get to my pet bird who I have hand raised and tought it to talk and whistle.I am a responsible pet owner and if my little bird makes too much noise i bring him inside ;).Problem solved.The cat also slid down the side of the car ond put a huge scratch on it ::).I would like to confront the owner but i would be quite confident in saying that they would not want to pay for the repairs :'(This has happened more than once to me and the people who oppose would have to be cat owners or lovers.My sister has a cat and she keeps it in the house and acts responsibly.Like owner like animal i say ::)Feral ;D

MIKOS

[Sportfish_5]

I hate cats


Oohhhh a low down cat #8-)

Luv a good Rodney Rude tune now and then #;D ;D ;D

[Lucky_Phill]

OK, fellas.

this thread has been flogged to death.

Lots of very good info for your problem Troy.

Lots of other suggestions that also have ......" merit ". !

It started to get off track a little, but to your credit, the humour shone thru !

Locking it down. Well done !

Phill