Evinrude 2 Stroke Vrs Suzi 4 Stroke

[fishyjoe]

Hi all,

This is a continuation on my quest for the best package.

I would like to hear points for and against the Evinrude Direct Injection 2 stroke vrs the Suzi 4 stroke both in the 115hp range.

I am looking for feedback in regards to economy, fumes, service costs and any other comments in regards to these two engines.

Once again thanks in advance


Joe #::)

[craigie]

Fishyjoe,

I went down this same road 2 years back.

The 115hp e-Tech's & Suzies had not arrived at the stage, but still plenty of others to crawl over.

My choice was the 115 Optimax Mercury 2 stroke DFI. Very similar economy to the 4 strokes. Fumes are very minimal, safe to say practicaly non existant 8-).

Service costs have been around $360 for an annual/100 hr service.

320 hours in less than 2 years, this motor has not missed a beat !!

My Opti is mounted on a 17 foot Fibreglass runabout. On a cruise speed of 24 knots at 4000 revs, it burns approx 18 - 20 litres per hour.
As an example of fuel econ. the other weekend I put 7 hours on the motor for a days cruising and trolling, chasing Tuna etc, all over Moreton Bay. Fuel burn was around 65 litres for over 120 k's of travel.

Also optioned the motor with the "Smartcraft" Gauges. Worth ever cent to get all the vital information at your fingertips.

I realise you may not be in the market for a Merc, but at least you can compare the above info with what the other brands can offer.

Regards
Craigie.

[fishyjoe]

Thanks Craigie,

That was great, I haven't made any definite choices yet so I am willing to consider all options as to the motor.

I have been told that the 2 strokes have it over the 4 strokes when it comes to reliability ie less things to go wrong etc.

I will look at the stats re the Merc, is it as quite as the 4s?

Thanks again great response

Joe

[craigie]

Joe,

I have never owned a 4 stroke but have been on board with a few guys that do.
At Idle the Opti is very quiet, much quieter than the old smokie 2 strokes but maybe not as quiet as the ever so silent 4 strokes. As revs are increased, it would be a case of splitting hairs as to which is quietest/Noisiest :-/

The ONLY drawback I have struck so far with my Opti is the cost of the Spark Plugs. $40 each ! Although they only need to be replaced every 200 - 300 hrs ;)

Regards
Craigie

[2iar]

Hi Joe,

I've got a 70 Suzi. There are NO fumes, and at idle the noisiest thing is the water from the tell-tale. even at WOT, you can still have a conversation with the deckie without yelling. The economy is terrific - I reckon my engine needs adjusted height-wise as I'm having to trim right in to stop porpoising, so therefore I'm creating more drag and running inefficiently. Even after that, I'm only using about 30litres for 80km's at 4200rpm. I expect this to improve further when I'm planing better with the engine raised a notch or two.

When I was buying, I had a look at the E-Tec's, though not that seriously. I was told a couple of interesting things - the E-Tec was the first to meet the improved European Emissions standard, what ever that might be. I was actually told it was the only engine that did, however my Suzuki is badged as meeting this...

Secondly, and this sounded an awful lot like sales b*****t, I asked about noise comparison between the engines. He went on to say that they operate on different frequencies and it would depend how attuned the individual was to each frequency on how loud each seemed. I may be wrong but I took this to be an admission that the E-Tec was indeed louder in terms of decibels, but this was a handy get out for a dealer being asked a tricky question.

I suppose the E-Tec has the advantage of not requiring servicing for 3 years. However there's a school of thought that says not servicing an engine for 3 years isn't a particularly great idea in the real world - I really wouldn't be qualified to comment. You'd probably get a bit more grunt out of the E-Tec, but again the technology is relatively new and unproven in the long term.

In summary, there didn't seem to be anything particularly wrong with the E-Tec, but I'm very happy to have chosen the Suzuki.

Good luck,
Mike

[HarryO]

Hi Joe, Mike and Craigie...

Sorry, don't mean to hi-jack the thread, but it made me
smile to read to read Mikes comment on the noise issue.

The salesman is a lot closer to the mark that we give him
credit for..

Its spot on that what one person hears is, totally different
to what another person hears, in terms of loudness....

A lot of people are tone deaf, and aren't even aware of it,
and the frequencies between sufferers vary as well..

But add to that problem, is the question, how loud is a
decibel?

That varys as well, and it becomes a logarithmic versus
linear mathematical problem , as there is no absolute zero
to quantify it.

Add ambient noise to that, an its enough to say,
lets move on to the fuel economy....

Harry..

[vertico]

etec all the way
dont know much about the 115 but the 90 is very economical
get atleast 2km per litre no matter the conditions
no fumes and very farken quiet

[Sportfish_5]

I get better than 2km/l from a Suzi DF 140 - even more if I troll further ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I was keeping a spreadsheet on fuel consumption but I dont even bother now cause its just getting better as they engine puts the hours in.

ETEC looks the goods but the only thing that concerns me is the 300 hour service interval and the warranty period. Not an issue if all they say is correct but what happens if ya get a Friday arvo engine ???

As for Suzi service costs I suppose it depends on the dealer ::) - the 20hr service is pretty typical of the yearly service (all oils changed, plugs checked/regap, oil filter replaced and tappets checked - the exception is no water pump impellor inspection/replacement). Cost me $250 parts and labour. :-*

Have a look at Iboats and check out the Suzi/Yammie problems page - it is a good ratio of problems 8-) 8-)


Cheers

Greg

[2iar]

Hi Joe, Mike and Craigie...

That varys as well, and it becomes a logarithmic versus
linear mathematical problem , as there is no absolute zero
to quantify it.



So why didn't he just come right out and say that? [smiley=cheesy.gif] [smiley=confused.gif] Next time the neighbour's boy decides to have a rave in the backyard, I'll approach him from this more philosophical angle [smiley=smiley.gif]


Not a bad gig mind you, selling a product where one of its' major features can't be quantified.

Mike

[Jusel]

I have a 135DI Evinrude and have found it awesome so far. It is noisy than the 4 strokes at idle but about the same at speed. Fuel efficiency is also pretty good. I get around 1Nm/L on a 19 foot glass boat. However it does suck heaps of fuel if your trolling. Yearly service cost is also pretty good at around $350 a year (including plugs).

That being said a mate has a 140 Suzuki and if I ever repowered I think I would go for the Suzuki. Mainly for the better economy whilst trolling.

One other thing to watch closely is the engine weights. The 115 Suzuki is the same block as the 140 so is a heavy 115. Not sure on the weight of the Etec. This weight will certainly effect performance etc though.

[HarryO]

Hi again.. ;D ;D

What I really meant to say was that Craigie right in saying that
the noise issue between the dfi/efi vs 4strokes is only
splitting hairs, as is the emission/enviroment issue..

These are both advantages we've never had before.

Superior fuel economy is the main driving force
behind the uptake to these new hi-tech engines....

The real concern, I think, is the suitability to the hull,
as Jusel pointed out, that if the stern will support the extra
weight of the 4 stroke, then go for it....

But if it won't, then you're not left out, you can still
enjoy the all the advantages by fitting the efi/dfi 2 stroke..

Any other argument is just rhetoric.

;D ;D

[Trigger]

When I went through the same thing a year and a bit back I summed it up the following way (75 ETEC vs 80 4stroke):

Fuel Economy: Equal
Noise: Equal
Power: ETEC (2 stroke grunt much better than a 4)
Weight: ETEC (nearly 60kg's lighter than the equivalent 4 at the time)
Servicing: ETEC (3 years service free)
Warranty: Was told that the ETEC 3 year non declining warranty was the best at the time, hard to say though
Reliability: 4 stroke tech proven, ETEC still in infancy
Price: ETEC (by about $900 at the time) may have changed

At the end of the day, the ETEC was equal or much better than the 4 stroke in all categories except it is new technology. I had it on good authority however that several serious commercial operators (some government services included) had tested a few of them out and were getting lots of them to replace older engines (they were very impressed after clocking up to 800 hours in a short period of time). The other advantages really made it stand out however. The cost of servicing (given my fathers annual 4 stroke service was over $500 the other week) also saves me further making the ETEC several thousand better off when the service costs are added to the extra initial outlay of the 4.

With regard to noise, my observations are that the ETEC has a slightly different sound than the 4's, but not necessarily louder. I suppose lots of cars have different notes in the sound of their exhausts, and you could probably describe the ETEC as having a sporty bark. I have conversations without having to talk loud when the engine is at 4500rpm quite easily.

Plenty of people will disagree, so get a ride in both if you can. The size you are looking at may match up differently, just work out what you want it for and what categories are important, and base your decision on this.

[pegasus]

Hi Fishyjoe, will admit up front that I cant give you much on the etec range-there just points you hear- from recollection there have been a few posts on this site regarding people having some problems but I think mainly with the smaller o/bs- ref -computer boards/chips- may pay to do a search on the site. As mentioned ealier the 3 years dealer free service period sounds great but I would like my o/b checked regularly especailly if I was venturing further a field. No offence meant - just an opinion.

I have owned a 90 hp suzi 4 s- same block as the 115hp- the 140 is lighter by a few kilos. It powered a 5.5 m fibr 1/2 cab- wot- 60 kms crusie 38-40 kms- fuel economy was very good-worked it out to average 2.5 -3 kms per litre- noise levels very low- never missed a beat- ref servicing I found it paid to shop around. I was very impressed and when I down scaled rigs- stayed with the suzi brand- now own a 50 hp suzi- still the same as above- quiet,fuel effiecent and relialble.

I know Mr Wong has just bought a rig with a 115 hp suzi on it and is very impressed- early days I know.

All the best in the search
lew

[jusii]

Hi Joe and others!

This is my first post on this forum, which I have been following a year now. To the topic then; I have a 70 hp 4-stroke Evinrude, which is the same as Suzuki 70 hp 4-stroke. Never had any trouble with it. Still I am not sure if the next one will be a 4-stroke. The annual maintenance cost is heavy at least here where I live. Find here the maintenance cost history of #my 70 hp 4-stroke efi Evinrude:

16.07.2001 # 20 hrs maintenance 238,21 euros equals to 397 AUSD
05.11.2001 # annual maintenance 283,50 euros equals to 472 AUSD
16.10.2002 # annual maintenance 319,04 euros equals to 532 AUSD
28.11.2003 # annual maintenance 268,81 euros equals to 448 AUSD
16.11.2004 # annual maintenance 358,90 euros equals to 598 AUSD
22.11.2005 # as above + timing belt 433,10 euros equals to 722 AUSD

The grand total is 3169 AUSD including Finnish VAT. (Cost without VAT would be 2597 AUSD.) With this cost I have managed to run five seasons and 400 hrs. If you run much in a season you could log more hours on the engine before belt change. Boat next to mine in the harbour ( whats the right word for a small boat harbour?) did log 960 hrs on a similar engine before timing belt change.

I will seriously consider the new generation 2-strokes when renewing my engine. The maintenance they require can be done by yourself.

Snowy greetings from 60 deg North and some 25 deg East

Jukka :)

[fishyjoe]

Hi Jukka,

Firstly welcome to the site and secondly thanks for your response that is the sort of information I was and am looking for.

A question of a personal nature, is you name Finnish?


Joe

[fishyjoe]

Thanks everyone,

I am starting to build a good picture in reference to the pros and cons.

Thanks for the details re cost etc, this site is invaluable because of people like yourselves that are willing to say it as it is and help the not so experienced.

Many thanks to all of you


Joe ;D

[jusii]

Joe,
Name and nationality are Finnish. Now that the fishing and boating season is over for 5 months I will follow what happens here.

Jukka

[fishyjoe]

Jukka,

I guess but just wanted to confirm.

My wife, Teija, is Finnish born in Helsinki and her brother Tapani is currently back home, Finland, working.

I will write and fill you in on some of the mackerel sessions that are coming up and will even try and post a few pictures.

Have a nice Xmas

Joe

[jusii]

Joe,

Its a small world! We Finns are not so many on this earth!

Thank you for welcoming me to this site. Since my english needs some brush up, I didn't quite understand "the filling in on some mackerel sessions" section in your post. Sounds good anyhow!

Merry Christmas to you, too

Jukka
(not yet having 20 posts to be able to post directly this private nature post to you)

[HarryO]

G'day Joe and Terve Jukka...

I'm only new to the board as well, but you're right, we're not
great in numbers, but well spread around... ;) ;)

Excellent to meet someone from the homeland on this site.

My Dad was born in Turku, Mum in Oulu, older sisters in Rovaneimi?
they migrated here in 1957, and I am the first Aussie born
in the family tree...

Your written english is very good...

Look foreward to hearing more from you..

Harry. (Harri)

[HarryO]

Sorry guys....

''Any other argument is just rhetoric''

I wrote that...... :-[

GUILTY AS CHARGED!!

I own a carbie 2 stroke (2000 mod Yammy 90)
and am quite happy with it, so it'll be a while before I
start looking at upgrades...

So I'm guilty of not really thinking too much about the
real comparisons between whats available...

Noise & emissions aside, fuel economy is still the main
driving factor to these upgrades, but just as importantly,
the service costs and scheduled maintenance
intervals obviously must be taken into consideration.


I promise I'll try to consider all angles before I make
such another ignorant comment...

:) :)

Harry..

[fishyjoe]

Sorry all,

I have moved away a little from the main point but I just wanted to welcome a fisher from afar, Jukka.

I had intended to post a picture to show a "Mackerel Session" down under alas I cann't work out how to!

Sorry Jukka. A session is time out on the water and Mackerel are one of the main fish that are sort when summer arrives in Queensland.

Back to the main thread now and I am now getting the picture that it is more personal preference and current technology seems to have made the old argument about realiability one of the past.

Would you agree with this or is there more to it?

Joe

[fishyjoe]

Jukka,

Go to fishing reports on the main page and the report posted by Colorado re Mackerel 14.12.05 will show you some nice Mackerel caught on the Gold Coast.

Joe

[jusii]

Joe,
Everything understood. Iwill visit fishing reports. During Christmas time I will introduce myself to the community on the general board.

Harri, nice to meet you. You surely know the places here by name.

Jukka