what makes a boat an offshore option??

[thumps]

recently i was browsing through the boat guides...and i pondered this question

why does a 4.8 meter centre console justify being called an off shore option ...yet a 4.8 metre runabout is listed as an estaury/bay boat??

what makes a boat an offshore option????

surely most hulls are similar even identical with different fit outs and the difference between 4.5 meter boats and 5 metre boats is only 500mm.

i know that some manufacturers list their boats at lengths that arent actually correct...(taking into account pods and bow sprites)

but what really defines a boat as being able to tackle offshore???...or is it simply a matter determined by the operater/builder ??

[Jeremy]

manufacturers/dealers recommendation is a guide only. Freeboard and length are both factors. Skippers experience is probably more important.

Is Moreton Bay any safer than offshore from Mooloolaba?

Jeremy

[Mantaray]

what is the definition of "offshore" to begin with? there will be quite different answers to that based on a persons perceptions. "offshore" has that certain ring to it, doesn't it? but really doesn't mean much without a specific outline.

[banshee]

What makes a boat an offshore option? Basicaly the weather and the nut behind the wheel.When I was younger we often took a trawler tender out to the reefs,I have also been out in a six metre boat that on occasions didn't feel quite big enough. In trailer boats half a metre is a lot,it genneraly equates to a wider beam,deeper V,higher sides and more weight.

[HarryO]

G'day Fellas..

How far offshore??

What makes a GOOD offshore boat is probably an easier
question to pose... and there are many and varied
reasons for this, bit I'll start with.......

Standing helm position. (vision)

Raised foredeck/bulkhead structure. (for the ability to
withstand the odd rouge greenie.)

High freeboard (including at the transom)

Positive floatation (and/or 2 hi vol bilge pumps)

Plenty of power (good power/weight ratio is a must)

(Obviously, twin donks are ideal)

The capability of stowing safety gear out of the way, but
still having it readily accessable.

Appropriate navigational equipment. (inc compass/charts)

More than 1 form of communication. (Know the area you're
operating in)

This list will keep growing..

Harry...

[onerabbit]

hi guys , i think the thing that makes a good off-shore is the boats ability to handle rough water, also the skippers, but it rules out a lot of the smaller tinnies, if you are planning on going out wide, sooner or later the forecast will be wrong or you make a bad pick, whatever, dont want to be there in something that was only just big enough, mine only 5.25mtrs, but very heavy, glass, top sea boat. muzz

[onerabbit]

we go out 22mile, muzz

[devocean]

Weight is imprtant plus size of motor. For example you want to get out wide quickly and boh factors are the most important I reckon.

Lots of fuel also works ;D

[HarryO]

G'day Ian.

Ok,ok, I'll concede that point.

If you have a raised and sealed floor, with self draining scuppers,
and you don't mind getting wet occaisonally, then high
freeboard, even at the transom, is not necessary in a good
offshore boat...

Glad to clear that up. ;) ;) ;)

Harry...

[thumps]

seems to me there is no real "offshore boats" per say

just boats that cope better at some things than others


a boats with self draining scuppers can have low free board

equipment on board makes the "nut behind the wheel" more safe.

and sea conditions dictate even the largest boats.

i personally have seen 3.5 tinnies out in the southern Ocean dissapearing on every swell, only to reappear on the top of the next set. so i dont see the weight and size of a motor important in so much as, as long as you can get there and back thats all you need(to some)

i thought i would get more responces about the shape of the hull..bow,...the beam etc.

so i guess i answered the question myself


the operater..or.as Banshee put it.......the nut behind the wheel

[blaze]

what makes an offshore boat
THE SKIPPER
cheers
blaze

[Mantaray]

anybody got a definition for offshore? where does offshore start, does it start, is there a point where offshore ends? very hard to define what an offshore option is if offshore can't be defined in the first place.

[mackmauler]

ok mantaray how about we say offshore starts in waters an epirb is mandatory and ends once your back in the partially smooth.

[krazyfisher]

mackmauler
I would agree thats how the marine industry sees it as in off shore safty kit etc

[Mantaray]

so anywhere past what? 2 nautical miles? we can class as offshore? no hang on that would be the areas exempt under that partially smooth or smooth water stuff? so where there was no defined partially smooth or smooth waters then it would be 2 nautical miles from land?

that's what you said mackmauler, wan't it?

[troy]

Mantaray would you care to take the time and give us your boating history and all the other qualificantions that you have to be a expert on just about everything.
No one liners just give ausfish members a reason to believe in your advise.
If you can provide this i will be the first to apologise to you.
troy

[Mantaray]

troy, stick to the subject and no i wouldn't waste the time on you!

[mackmauler]

mantaray, without starting a play on words of what is offshore just check your state regulations if you want to keep within the guidelines, id rather play it safe and say anywhere outside of partially smooth waters is offshore, the safety handbook in QLD gives you the regulations. the post is about what makes a boat an offshore option, nothing I can add there im satisfied with the other posts, is there anything you can add?

[thumps]

OFFSHORE
as defined by http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=offshore

noun

The comparatively flat region of submerged land extending seaward from beyond the region where breakers form to the edge of the continental shelf. ;D

[Mantaray]

the only thing i could add is that i'd have to say the regulations have no bearing on what makes an "offshore" boat.

[darryl_l]

Mantaray,

What is your point? You seem to be posting plenty and saying nothing. I have had my 3.9 tinnie "offshore" on the right day and I have been 65 miles off the coast in 19' Haines would YOU class that "offshore"?

Darryl L

[Mantaray]

Mantaray,

What is your point? You seem to be posting plenty and saying nothing. I have had my 3.9 tinnie "offshore" on the right day and I have been 65 miles off the coast in 19' Haines would YOU class that "offshore"?

Darryl L

65 miles? according to the weather forecast you would, coastal waters forecast is out to 60 miles and the offshore waters forecast start at 60 miles so you could say you were "ofshore". now if a 19 foot boat should be "offshore" is what the discussion is about!

the point being? what is classed as offshore, can it be defined, can people sell boats as "offshore" boats, nobody has come anywhere near the connection between something that is said to be an offshore boat and what offshore actually means and not just somebody's interpretation that suits THEM. #

ps. ;D no maybe you weren't? was that 65 mile or 65 nautical mile :D

[mackmauler]

[quote author=pelagic_chaser link=1135111881/15#20 date=1135424051]the point being? what is classed as offshore, can it be defined

does it really matter? for rec boating here there is no such thing, its only beyond smooth and partially smooth waters, coastal /offshore whatever you call it the cops wont give a crap if you dont have the compulsary safety gear for beyond partially smooth waters.

[roz]

I've always believed 'enclosed' waters ended at the river mouth/bar or harbour entrance. Is this correct??

Roz

[familyman]

I think the cut off point is where the river/bar stops and the "two foot chop"begins ;) ;D
cheers jon

ps NSW regs regard more than 2 km off the coast as requiring open water safety equipment but to my knowledge say no more than that.As far as a boat suitable for offshore hmmm ...where do you start....look at hans tholstrup for instance :o
pps I'm not suggesting we should all drive our 18'boats to tokyo ::)

[familyman]

Actually I believe attitude and acceptance is important also.
My brother has a seadoo and when driving that you accept that you will get wet and probably go swimming at some point.Same as if you have a hard core centre console with self draining deck and sealed floor you accept that you will get wet in a seaway but your faith in your equipment gives you the confidence to do what others would not.

This does not answer the question but as for the same sized hull I would imagine that most of the described use is marketing hype.
cheers jon :)

[TheDeepSix]

Offshore=Kevlacat. It will always get you home (So far ;))

[roz]

Would have to agree with you Jon (family man), 'Off Shore' is just marketing hype. I've never heard or read anything that would define a boat as being fit for off shore boating, what would the specifications be? I don't think any standards exist, except for safety equipment.

Roz

[Mantaray]

"marketing hype", now that the best definition so far. no don't believe any manufacturer can really call something an offshore option. also don't see how beyond any regulated area can be classed as offshore either. in some of these so called partially smooth waters it can get rougher than beyond them. having to have compulsary safety gear doesn't mean it's offshore water either.

the point being? unless you can define offshore waters then nobody can call something an offshore option, it's all hype

[krazyfisher]

mantaray
offshore waters I can Define it so that even you can understand

OFFSHORE WATERS= water that is off the shore or outside the shore line therefore inshore waters are waters inside the shore line
this may not help thumps with what he has asked but some people just dont want to help and want to turn everything into a problem.

mantaray
Dont bring problems, bring solutions........... if you can


what determines an off shore boat is one that can travel offshore safely in the given conditions

0-5kns 12ft tinny

20-30kns oil tanker

[Arlon]

Runabouts generally have deeper cockpits that do not allow self bailing while most center consoles on the same hull have a taller floor and self bailing scuppers. At least up here that would be the biggest difference between the two from the "offshore" perspective. There's also the weight distribution difference. Most of the runabouts have their weight distributed much further foreward than the CC's. The CC's will ride over a wave the same hull in a runabout would punch through (water over the bow). For some reason, the CC's almost always have more onboard fuel capacity (sometimes twice as much) too.. Arlon

[Darryl]

This thread rawkkkkksssss.. :D :D

[Spaniard_King]

No problem Troy, all going well I should get there this afternoon.

Garry

[thumps]

Our 5.4m & 5.8m Cabs are regarded as a true offshore hull. With a 4mm plate bottom and reverse chine, this hull rides and performs extremely well. Your ride is second to none as you head to your favourite patch of reef.

this is the kind of "definition" im talking about

this is an add for a well known brand of Boat....however...this boat does not have a self draining floor
it also has medium freeboard..and only the capacity for one outboard

it also runs the same hull as a an equivelent sized tinnie

yet a boat of the same brand that is a centre console with those features metioned above gets no mention of being "offshore capable"

[gogecko]

While there is definitely an amount of marketing hype, I think there is also a real difference in what makes a bost an offshore model.
- hull shape, like a good deep v that will puch thru surf
- live bait tank, not usually found on inshore models
- decent sized kill bin/esky for larger fish not found inshore
- ability to fit side curtains
- larger capacity fuel tanks
- bilge pump
- flared bow
- reef anchor and longer rope

OK some of these things are available on inshore models, but Id be expecting them as standard on an offshore model.

cheers
Andrew

[Mantaray]

thumps,

yes some know exactly where you are coming from but why some are even mentioning oil tankers in this discussion is way way beyond me. That's way way out and off track, i've never heard such a silly comparison, none even close.

i'm going to comment on some of gogecko's list as diffeent things mean different things to different people (no oil tankers please !)

hull shape: yes
good deep vee: basically but not essential
live bait tank: NO has absolutely nothing to do with offshore capability of the boat
decent size kill tank: NO same as live bait tank
side curtains: Maybe but i would have thought a cabin type model would be best suited
larger fuel tanks: Well yes sort off but just how far are you expecting to go especially with the current engines. instead of larger fuel tanks maybe separate fuel tanks would provide better redundancy?
bilge pump: well by law you have to have bailing equip but there ain't no bilge pump that can handle lots of water.
reef anchor and longer rope: similar to kill tanks and live bait tanks.

a proper self draining floor would have to be number 1 of any number of bilge pumps. #

As for twins? good to have but lots of ways to look at this option.

i would have to say there is probably a difference between the term "offshore model" and "offshore capable".

oil tankers #::) what next?

[gogecko]

Mantaray,
have another look at the original question mate. its not about 'offshore capable' its about what makes an offshore 'model' in 2 boats of the same size?

I could have a 4.8m runabout setup for the broadwater, or a 4.8m setup for offshore. In the broadwwater model, I have a 25lt fuel tank, a small live bait well and no kill tank.

If Im going offshore chasing pelagics, I need a bigger fuel tank, bigger livebait well, and big enough cool box to hold marlin, mahi or wahoo, etc.

See my point? Theres a definte difference in offshore models of the same size. feel free to correct me if Im wrong (I know you will).

Your points are correct about 'offshore capable', but they dont answer the original question, no offence.

cheers
Andrew

[Mantaray]

Andrew, no offence taken but as i understand it thumps is coming from the other direction with regards "offshore" and what sales people or more correctly manufacturers want to label as "offshore" and as many see it, incorrectly at that??. bit of a play on words which generally gives the buyer some misunderstanding.

lets just say i don't have a live bait tank at all but have been known to go quite a long way and a dam lot further than any so called "offshore" pushed sales pitched boat will ever see!

maybe thumps could clarify this?

[troy]

Mantaray what do you class as a offshore boat.
Some and i stress some boaties in my area will go out 20 miles if the weather is good in a 4 metre boat.
But i have always worked on the this if the weather is too bad that a 17 ft boat could not go to the reef then a 21ft boat is not going to do it to much better.
So what is your opinion of a off shore boat.

[thumps]

1.........why does a 4.8 meter centre console justify being called an off shore option ...yet a 4.8 metre runabout is listed as an estaury/bay boat??

2.........what makes a boat an offshore option????

surely most hulls are similar even identical with different fit outs

3..........but what really defines a boat as being able to tackle offshore???...or is it simply a matter determined by the operater/builder ??

I believe question 1 is answered...in so much as a self draining deck/raised floor for the centre console as opposed to none on an open boat configuration

so in essence..i guess that answers question 2 as well

and i believe that goes part way in dertemining the answer to question 3....

as for the definition of "offshore"...i guess it should read...OPEN WATERS...and manufacturers should adjust to this term

[Spaniard_King]

Ok..here it is

Offshore boat...one like the rusty old hulk that got sunk off maloolaba in July this year( I can say that cause I spent 5 years on her ;D)

Everything else really should be classed as inshore cause their subject to weather conditions 8-)

I think this post should be dropped as everyone has an oppinion which may work ::) given the right conditions :-X

thats it..my 2 cents..I am outta here ::)

Garry

[Mantaray]

;D maybe water depth has a bit to do with some certain rusty hulks, oil tankers "limiting" their inshore capabilities :D they have trouble floating :o

[Arlon]

Offshore Fishabout:
http://fototime.com/285023A27D46207/standard.jpg

inshore runabout:
http://fototime.com/7D5B610B2EC3807/standard.jpg

[Bundaberg_Bandit]

what makes an offshore boat :-?
THE WEATHER (and the SKIPPER like blaze said)
cheers
BB

[roz]

So whats wrong with having an opinion??

I still think it's mostly spin by boat dealers. I've spent 100s of hours out to sea in my vc, it's under 5 metres and no self draining floor... so what, it's a good little sea boat.

Obviously certain features must exist. Most important for me would be deep V.

BB I agree as well.

cheers roz

[HarryO]

G'day Roz,

you're spot on, the VC was one of the best little
cuddies available in their day, only limited by the
experience of the skipper.....

Deep V's are good for a nice ride, but invariably are
determined by length/weight of the individual vessel..

Unless it has a water ballast keel...


Harry...

[Mantaray]

well yes the weather always helps! how could anybody forget the weather? but then many do!

so here's one for you, if it's an "offshore" boat then should it have a HF radio?

so would a reasonable competent skipper take an unsuitable vessel "offshore" just because they they think they have the ability to do so? does the skipper make the boat or does the boat make the skipper??

[onerabbit]

good on ya roz, was my original point, its not what youv'e got , its how it performs, i take my vermont( 5.25 ) out 22ml to the shelf on a good day, & it cops plenty of rough stuff with little drama, good hull to start, plenty of weight, plenty of grunt, ( just put on new merc 115 about 3mnths ago), besides you catch better fish on a rough day!!!! muzz.

[chemmy]

ALSO THE SANITY OF THE SKIPPER, ME AND DAD TAKE OUR 5M QUINNY TINNY OUT TO THE BARWON BANKS ;D USUALY ON GOOD DAYS

BUT WHEN IT IS TO ROUGH WE HEAD FOR HOME. GETTING A FEED OF FISH IS GOOD AND ALL BUT SAFTEY ALWAYS COMES FIRST

[chemmy]

and some even better condidtions

[Scott15]

I think i know where your handheld GPS went michael lol first pic :-X ;D

[chemmy]

you hit the nail on the head with that one scott

[youngfisho]

Got to be unsinkable (or near enuf) bailing decks with a bilge pump and ride soft enough and have no nastie vices ie broaching really badly or unstable at rest etc.


andrew

[onerabbit]

ALSO THE SANITY OF THE SKIPPER, ME AND DAD TAKE OUR 5M QUINNY TINNY OUT TO THE BARWON BANKS ;D USUALY ON GOOD DAYS

BUT WHEN IT IS TO ROUGH WE HEAD FOR HOME. GETTING A FEED OF FISH IS GOOD AND ALL BUT SAFTEY ALWAYS COMES FIRST

if the ocean was always flat like that , "offshore option" would be a much broader subject, but we all know how fast it can change! muzz

[finding_time]

High freeboard (including at the transom)

Harry...


I,ve got to disagree with this one it's just two broad ranging. Every seen a trawler with a high transom! the transom on my ub is only 3inches high and i have had the occasional wave slop through but out the scuppers it went. When i got bashed by 3 large waves on the pincushion bar all of which broke into the boat what didn't flow over the 1 1/2 foot sides flowed strait out the back and i was able to keep going,If i had four foot sides on the boat and a four foot transom imagine the amount of water on board!!!!! Freeboard is a very overated thing on a boat yes it stops alittle bit of water getting in but it stops it getting out as well. Nothing beats sealed positive floation areas and good drainage if you have these water doesn't matter.

Ian

Ps. Ever seen a game boat backing into a sea the bloody thing is half under water