Fire ext how many of you are legal

[RAGINGBULL]

Hi Guys

I got pulled over for having no Fire extinguisher on board.
They could not find any thing else to pay for there trip offshore so they searched untill they found something.
Boat over 5 metres

http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/qt/MSQ.nsf/index/firefighting_equipment


Is yours less than 12 months old or certified by a Registered person within 12 months.
Best you check it out, because thats what the Water Police say.
And once that ticket is written out, you have more chance of falling pregnant than fighting it. ???????
There are whole lot of new laws for boats comming out soon, maybe somone can sift through the pages and give it to us in English.

Cheers Mark

[Feral]

I woulda said my bait bucket was my fire extinguisher! 2 gallons of water do the job as well as a fire extinguisher,

well - except for a fuel fire, which does not really matter, coz I have found that fire extinguishers dont work real well while swimming as fast as you can in the other direction! ;D

[Grand_Marlin]

Lol Feral... please post that point on "Lessons Learned" in the general section.
;D ;D

The authorities need a real good kick up the ar$e on this (and other) issues regarding available information.

The government produced "Guide to Recreational Boating & Fishing in Qld" states that all boats over 5m must carry fire fighting equipment capable of extinguishing a fire quickly and effectively.

This book is printed in March 05.

It states that fire extinguishers MUST be serviced or replaced before the expiry date.

It doesnt say anything about specifically having a fire extinguisher.... so if you could prove a bucket is capable, then I suppose you win....

I, as are many others, are sick to death of all these sneaky little quirky rules that the authorities keep hitting us with.

They never appear to be out in the open and easily sourced.

For christ sake, we pay boat rego each year.... a copy of the current handbook sent to us with our rego, noting any changes, is not too much to ask is it?

I think it is about time to start writing letters....

Cheers

Pete

[coxy]

I'm with you Grand Marlin. A handbook or newsletter of any new laws or updated changes is what is needed.
COMMUNICATION - the exchange of information or ideas
We all have an obligation to try to keep up to date with the latest & greatest & that's why we are on this website. But doesn't the Govt owe us the same respect & help keep us informed before boarding on a Sunday morning session?

[Mantaray]

you could probaby get away with not having an extinquisher if you didn't have an electric start motor etc. national safety requirements for recreational boats include both fire buckets AND fire extinquishers (where electric start, gas or fuel stoves are fitted).

yeah i know qld don't specifically specifify an extinquisher but then it's the masters responsibility to provide the correct means to extinquish the fire and if you think you can justify a fire blanket or a bait bucket before the judge then go right ahead. it's your decision. somehow i doubt you would have much of an arguement to put forward.

[sf17fisherman]

your goverment is sure trying to make it tougher and more costly for you guys north of the boarder

peeves me off when i see report of this kind where someone had done the best to have everything shipshape and leagal but to get fined on a technicality

we see boats alot of the time out without the right safty gear or doing things dangours however your stuffed if you don't have a date stamp on your fire extinquisher oryour rego numbers are not the full size ect ect
i know by law you have done the wrong thing but one would think it would be better off giveing a warning
hell people speeding on the roads get a warning some of the time

like anything you always get the odd one that is haveing a bad day i guess

[Grand_Marlin]

You are right Mantaray,

The legislation states that all boats over 5m must carry fire fighting equipment capable of extinguishing a fire quickly and effectively. It also states that you should consult an expert supplier to give advice on the type and amount of equipment that could be required.

So, if a fire were to get out of control and could not be extinguished, then you are still in breach of the legislation, because you could not extinguish the fire.... with or without an extinguisher.

The court would ask that in hindsight is there any further equipment you could have carried to extinguish this fire.

The answer... yes, carry more extinguishers and safety equipment.

Guilty Your Honour.

They leave this legislation vague, so as it is up to the individual to source an informed decision. It also does not implicate the authorities, as they have not specified the exact equipment to have at hand.

It all comes down to whether or not you want to be a cross between a smartar$e and a fool. Personally, there is no way known I would have fuel in a boat and not carry the appropriate extinguisher.

===================================

I still think the lack of communication resulting in the fines issed for quirky legislative points is wrong....

[team_mongo]

Mark,

I got pulled over in Nov 05, and got exactly the same speil. have a look at http://www.ausfish.com.au/cgi-ausfish/yabb2/YaBB.cgi?num=1132955802/0.

George

[dnej]

What I dont understand, why the size limit, why not all boats? If I had two young kids in a powered tinny, and it caught fire, I sure would want the have an extinguisher handy.
David

[Relaxed]

Down here in Tas all boats less than 6 meters must have;

Extinguisher,
Aux propulsion,
Flares,
Anchor rope and chain,
Bailer or bilge pump,
PFD's, Must be worn whilst under way,

These are the requirements for Sheltered Waters, they increase for Open Waters and vessels over 6 meters.

Cheers Andy.

[rough_shag]

When I recently bought my 5.5mtr boat the first thing I did is sit down and think about all the possible things that could go wrong at sea and threaten my life.The first thing was what if there's a fire? so I hit the boatyard up for an extinguisher and safety pack plus made sure I had an epirb and radio and a first aid kit.To me these are things I would have onboard regardless of whether it's law or not.
I was once in a boat which had the motor catch fire-I shat myself at the thought of burning to the waterline and the possible explosion risk-the boat didn't have an extinguisher and I vowed to always carry one from then on.Anyone who has ever seen water thrown onto an oil or fuel fire will know how dangerous and futile it is,the best defence against fire is an extinguisher and/or a fire blanket .imo.(12yrs underground mine fire and rescue).Jace.

[Grand_Marlin]

The size limit of the boat is due to Qld legislation.

Rough Shag.... you hit the nail on the head.... take the time to think what could go wrong, and prepare for it.

Personally?

I dont care what size boat...

Fuel on board = carry fire extinguisher.

[rough_shag]

Gets back to the old chestnut-COMMON SENSE. btw a basic extinguisher can cost as little as $25-that's cheap peace of mind and you'll be glad you got one when it hits the fan!!.Jace.

[Argle]

I agree with Rough Shag and Grand Marlin, my boats only 4.93m so technically it doesnt need an extinguisher but with 80l of fuel on board as well as a battery and electrics you can be sure that is HAS got one.
Just my 2 cents worth

Cheers and Beers

[Oldyella]

Agreed,...Even if the boat is only 4m, extinguishers they are cheap to buy and may save your life.. Why not whack one in anyway #???

[sf17fisherman]

Agreed,...Even if the boat is only 4m, extinguishers they are cheap to buy and may save your life.. Why not whack one in anyway #???
with what the goverments are doing they are in fact makeing it hard now for people to do this and while a agree what i don't agree with is now they need to be tagged
if you do have a cheap supercheap one without a tag or date stamp and now get checked (if they see it)they can fine you for not haveing a indate fire ext.

[subzero]

It would be interesting to see what the Dept of Fair Trading would say on the subject.
Surely that a fire extinguisher that is sold would have to meet the Australian Standards. Surely those standards would include tag and testing? If they do, wouldnt that then make them illegal if they could not meet the purpose for which they are sold for? They do not meet the purpose they are sold for because they cant be put on the boat without a tag? Catch 22 situation.
Just my thoughts, I think its wrong to sell them without some form of expiry or re-test on them, I think its far worse for Boating shops to hand out tags willy nilly and even worse if they sell them without telling the purchaser that if they get pulled up by the Water Police they are open to prosecution without the tag.
Just my opinion
Cheers Lloyd

[Bowser]

The rules are very strange now and there is no standardization across the states. If you go over the boarder you have to have a radio to go offshore but no EPIRB and you have to have a horn. what crap is that. If you read the rules here there is different types of gear discussed. There is the must haves and a fire extinguisher over 5m is one and there is the should haves. These include oars or paddles and bailing equipment. If you don't have these recommended equipment there is nothing that can be done unless the failure to have them causes damage or injury and then they will throw the book at you. I have confirmed this ruling with both Maritime safety and the Police

[blaze]

$25 a year for a new one, hang the older ones around the house and in the sheds.
cheers
blaze
ps
put a few smoke alarms in ya house while ya at it

[subzero]

Around the home, best tip from me is dont put that fire extinguisher next to the stove, most people put it beside the stove because most people anticipate the likelyhood of fire to start there and it usually does, the fat catches fire on the stove and you cant get to the fire extinguisher... very common mistake... in the doorway leading to the kitchen is usually a good spot
Cheers Lloyd

[sf17fisherman]

$25 a year for a new one, hang the older ones around the house and in the sheds.
cheers
blaze
ps
put a few smoke alarms in ya house while ya at it
thats the thing but blase the cheap $25 ones sound like the go but without a stamp or use date on them your still in the same boat and will be charged

you need to be able to prove that the fire ext. is in date

[catchy_fishy]

In SA irrespective of length if your boat is licensed to go to sea - 1nm 5nm 15nm or more you need 1 extinguisher per motor

And flares, and capsize rope, and torch, and drinking water, etc, etc

[finga64]

the date bit has me intreged.
I went to bias boating and had a look at the extinguishers and none had date stamps. How do you know when the date is up??
Somebody before mentioned something about the shop giving you stamps. Is this true??
On the bigger boat I use a small Chubb extinguisher so they are tested all the time but on the tinny I have a little extinguisher that everybody is talking about. I don't legally need one but have one. Don't know the date but the gauge says good. Is it an offence in QLD to carry this extinguisher even though I don't need one?? Do I just put in a handy place where the inspector can't see it or do I just call it a soda syphon??

Input needed please

[sf17fisherman]

the date bit has me intreged.
I went to bias boating and had a look at the extinguishers and none had date stamps. How do you know when the date is up??
Somebody before mentioned something about the shop giving you stamps. Is this true??
On the bigger boat I use a small Chubb extinguisher so they are tested all the time but on the tinny I have a little extinguisher that everybody is talking about. I don't legally need one but have one. Don't know the date but the gauge says good. Is it an offence in QLD to carry this extinguisher even though I don't need one?? Do I just put in a handy place where the inspector can't see it or do I just call it a soda syphon??

Input needed please

my understanding of this would be that because you have it onboard if you need it or not it has to comply with the law and thus have a date stamp on it or tagged

IMHO i would have it somewhere where it can't be seen but can be reached easly if needed
but you still run a chance of being searched and fined

i understand the need for them onboard and even why they want to ensure they will be up to date thus the date stamp and tagging but sometimes in trying to do the right thing that make it hard

[Mantaray]

Around the home, best tip from me is dont put that fire extinguisher next to the stove, most people put it beside the stove because most people anticipate the likelyhood of fire to start there and it usually does, the fat catches fire on the stove and you cant get to the fire extinguisher... very common mistake... in the doorway leading to the kitchen is usually a good spot
Cheers Lloyd

so true but just take a peak at where electricians put the stove circuit switch!

[Mantaray]

so anybody taken a peak at the victorian requirements?

[PeterT]

Have 2 extinguishers.

I once had a motor catch fire and it wasn't an electric start. All outboards start electrically, even if you are pulling a rope.

I had my 15 yammie motor serviced and first trip she flooded and a spark ignited the fuel. Wasn't a bad fire and did no damage but if I hadn't had an extinguisher I would have lost the motor in all probability. A fire in a boat is a very scary thing.

Did I give the service guy a mouthful.

pete

[Figjamm]

so anybody taken a peak at the victorian requirements?

Vic = Approved fire extinguisher(s) where any fuel is carried (including cooking appliances)

State by state safety equipment -
http://www.safeboating.org.au/Equipment/State_Safety_Equipment/index.asp

This site is maintained by the Australian Maritime Safety Authority

--
Bev

[Streetkid]

Servicing of fire extinguishers is detailed in the australian standards and as they are considered as a piece of life support equipement their servicing schedule must be strictly adhered to regardless of the purpose they are applied to. This has been designed so that in the situation of a fire anybody can pick up the extinguisher and be 99.9% certain it is going to operate in the manner it was designed for , otherwise joe bloggs who chooses to stay and fight in the event a fire occurs is not possibly putting himself in an unnecesarily dangerous situation with no way of protecting himself.

[subzero]

Streetkid, so without an expiry or date stamp on them, then they do not meet the standards?
If they dont meet the standards then they are not of an approved type and therefore are sold illegaly?
The next logical step is they are sold and can not be used for the purpose you brought it for and that makes false or misleading advertising?

Thats exactly how I see it if thats what you are saying.
I no longer have a boat but if I was to be picked up by Water Police and fined for not having the tag for which it never came with, and I knew I had purchased it within the previous 12 months from new, I would be inclined to have a go at the retailer and the manufacturer through Fair Trading.

I think the whole things pretty crook. Just my opinion
Cheers Lloyd

[subzero]

Mantaray, quite true, never thought of that... its amazing how sometimes you cant see the forest for the trees
Cheers Lloyd

[Mantaray]

so how do qld people thing about this one?

http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/4756/fire3qr.jpg

oh and thanks for who ever this was borrowed from! i'm sure you won't mind?

[Streetkid]

Subzero, in my experience all exinguishers that I have had to service have had a date stamped somewhere on them its just that some are clear and in the open while others are more obscure to the point of having to pull some of the extinguisher apart to read the date. As with anything there are some real cheap and nasty bits of gear on the market but I am sure there are regulations as what can and cant be sold if not up to standard. Buy the best you can afford and look after it the way your supposed to and if cheap and nasty is all you can afford then maybe your boat is too big.

[Bugs]

To clarify things the date stamped on the extinquisher is not entirely the service date as mentioned in the legislation. The date stamped on the body of the extinquisher is basically the manufacturing or end of life date, not the service record.

The maintenance/service tag will be very visible and normally attached to the securing pin or safety release mechanism. This tag is Yellow and will have on it something like AS 1851.1 Maintenance Record and will show a record of the service periods for years/months and if the extinguisher is within the current specificed service period.

If there is no Maintenance Record tag attached and stamped correctly then the extinguisher is not in service even if the date stamped on the body of the extinguisher is within acceptable dates.

BR #