Do I really need a bilge pump ?

[catchy_fishy]

I'm planning again, and going through the list of nice to have's, vs need to haves. I don't have a bilge pump, I do know that it is used to pump out water - obviously - but i don't know if I need one.

Wet deck f/glass 5m boat that will go 15nm to sea

I would welcome any advice Aus Fisho's out there can muster up; oh and Scott you may not frown at my ignorance - rather see it as innocence.

Ps I know you've only ever helped before, not frowned

Thanks

Catchy Fishy

[al-straddie]

Wet deck f/glass 5m boat that will go 15nm to sea

Ps I know you've only ever helped before, not frowned

Thanks

Catchy Fishy

If yer going to sea, then its thourghly recomended. There's so many thing that could go wrong, that for the piece of mind it brings, it's well worth the investment. My mate and I nearly sank 5miles out one day(hull cracked) and if not for that pump we'd have had a very long swim. :o

Also very handy when you forget those damn bungs. ;D ;D ;D

cheers..... 8-)

[revs57]

Hi CF

Before the new RipTide (Which has a bilge pump), I had a 4.5 mtr tinny that I used to go to sea in also with a bilge pump

Call me paraniod, but you've gotta have it loaded in your favor out there

cheers

rhys

[grex]

I have 2 , partly for the safety aspect , large volume of water entering or if one fails .

A lso , with the design of my boat if water enters on one side it dose not migrate to the other .

The other consideration is convenience. Much easier to flick a switch than trying to bail from normally a difficult area

Geoff

[Geoff_Atkinson]

Heck yeah you need one!!!

What are ya gonna do if your 15nm out and your hull cracks?

[michael_k]

you dont need one until you really wish you had one

cheers mick

[finga64]

There you catchy question answered #;)
You cannot learn until you ask questions #:)
Must be getting close now for some enjoyment

P.S. How's the outboards going. Is it time for me to buy a scratchy yet??

[Lone_Wolf]

Excellent question finga

Given the current climate for liability on boat manufacturers and owners alike, I would have thought a bilge would almost be mandatory on any vessel travelling in open waterways.

I have life jackets, flares, fire extinguisher and never had to use them. I think this shows there still are flaws in our boating safety laws when a bilge is not considered essential safety.

[snakecatcher]

Having been caught out in a smallish tinny in fairly rough seas I can definitely tell you that trying to bail out using a bucket while hanging onto the rails isn't much fun. Definitely get a bilge pump - your life is more valuable than the few bucks it costs.

Mike

[flatstrap]

Hi catchy_fishy,
My little contribution in the subject is this; Despite the pretty appearance of our favourite playground (ocean), never forget that it is a hostile environment to our life. So, stack the odds better and manage the risks. A reliable bilge pump is just another element within our control that reduces risk. There are many others of course, like a seaworthy boat, good seamanship, etc.

In a similar style as aircraft, spacecraft etc., there should always be a backup safety system in place. The trick is to find balance between safety gear and carting tonnes of 'stuff' for our safety.

It's just not the case of a split hull or a bung failure, there's a big hole on top of every boat that allows water in. It's the same hole that allows you to board your boat.

Just something to think about (given in a good spirit).
Regards, Flatstrap

[billfisher]

It doesn't take long for heavy spray to result in a substantial amount of water collecting in your boat. I have a manual bilge pump in addition to an electric one. Make sure you get a high capacty one, about 1500 gph. Two electric pumps are a good idea as they can tend to fail, and you can use them both at once if you cop a large amount of water. Have them independantly wired with separate switches.
By the way 15 nm out to sea is a rather long way to go in a 5m boat ,ie a bit marginal for safety.

[IcemanII]

Just had boat shop fit an inlet pipe through the hull a couple of weeks ago, discovered the next time I was out in the bay that the hull is leaking 10L/hr, glad I have a bilge pump!
Also in the past had a 4.5m Quintex, got caught out one day with waves breaking over the windscreen, had a bilge pump fitted before I took it out again.

[MulletMan]

Nope! You definately don't need one at all Mate!
You need TWO!!!!!!!!
If the underfloor electric one goes belly up or your battery stops working it is bye bye boat.
I carry a spare one with several metres of SUCK 'N BLOW hose on it.
I have three batteries in my boat but one is dedicated to the bilge pump. Have it ready to go with two BIG alligator clips on the leads and if you do take a big greeny over the back, you will never be sorry about lugging it about.
And BIG is definately BETTER. The bigger the sucker the better!
Cough up the money for a JOHNSON brand (top quality and well priced) and go fishing with no worries

[d-man]

Dunno about your part of the world but in Qld. boats 5m and over are required to have a bilge pump by law.
Are ya looking forward to the cricket?

[2iar]

You only really need one when you *really* need one. The rest of the time you just need one.

They're a relatively inexpensive piece of saftey gear, weigh very little and 15nm is a LOOOOONNNNGG way from home...

Good luck,
Mike

[vermin]

Can I ask where you would put the pump on a boat like catch_fishy's. Assuming "wet deck" means self draining and there are is no way water can enter the hull unless there is a crack in the deck / hull.

Would you have to cut an access hatch into the deck to fit the pump to the bottom of the boat?

Vermin

[sf17fisherman]

my southwind is classed a selfdraining deck but i can tell you water will always find a was down below via joins or access hatches or even the hatch to the fule tank

i have two powered bilges and one manule *eg* me

have one 800 thats on a float switch so i can sleep at night knowing full well that any water will be sorted out and also i have a 2000 odd i think on a normal switch for if i become swamped

[finding_time]

I've got the UB520 and have always had a float swich and bilge pump in the rear ( small) bilge as a fair bit of water goes in here at times( it a flat decker if i want it completely empty it has to go in the bilge) The main bilge (90% of the boats bilge area) rarely gets water in it ,just a bit around a couple of inspection hatches if there is alot of water in the boat but i have just installed a bilge pump in this area JUST IN CASE for the small outlay its a fair bit of insurance incase i get a small crack in the hull!

Yes i would put a bilge pump in your boat! ;)

Ian

[Skipsta]

Even a little one is better than none at all. I had a cheap little Rule 250gph pump, which kept me afloat when my last boat(crap boat - ripped off by seller - another story ::)) took in heaps of water through cracks in Hull between Wathumba Ck on Fraser Isalnd Urangan. I would have eventually been overcome by water and sunk if not for that little bugger which chugged away valiantly for a couple of hours. Still get a bigger one, bigger the better.

[Grand_Marlin]

G'day Catchy Fishy,

Some good advice here from fellow Ausfishers.

Can you tell us what you mean by a wet deck?
In Aus, a wet deck refers to a sealed deck or self draining deck that has scuppers (holes with flaps over them) in the back of the boat at floor level to let any water out that gets on the deck.

Most important to know this.

If it doesnt, have a read of the post "confessions - have you ever left your bungs out"
You will notice a worrying similarity in the comments between the majority of people. That comment is "It took the bilge pump ages to pump the water out"

So many people really dont understand how slow bilge pumps are.

A wave over the back can easily dump 500 litres of water in the boat in one hit.
A 1500gph (6750 lph) running at full capacity would take 5 minutes to pump this out.
Keep in mind, your boat is now sitting a lot further down in the water, and is now very, very unstable. It is more susceptible to the next big wave that is going to be on you in the next 30 seconds or so..... cop 2 of these waves and you are history.

Also, due to lift height / friction loss in outlet hoses, bilge pumps are only running at (estimate) 80% of their stated capacity. So a 1500 gph bilge pump, is in the real world only giving you 1200 gph.

Bilge pumps are like flares... you never need them until you REALLY need them, and when you do, you will wish you had 10 of the biggest ones known to man. (We lost a 5m boat of the south coast of Tassie, lucky to live through it)

I now fit twin Johnson 2200 gph bilge pumps to any boat I have.
At least this gives me a sporting chance !

This should in practice give me the capacity (at 80%) to pump 264 litres per minute.

It may seem excessive to some people, but keep in mind you are venturing 15nm off the coast, and most probably with little help available if needed.

Again, everybody makes their own decisions... just telling you what we found out (the hard way)

And also carry a good strong bucket... a panicking man with a bucket will move more water than any bilge pump ever will ;D

Cheers,

Pete

[mackmauler]

Ive never had a bilge pump but ive seen a scared man with a bucket ;D

[Sportfish_5]

Thats a no- brainer - you need one most definitley. Get an automatic one that has an indicator light to tell you when it is pumping out ;) Also keep a manual one handy in the event of electrical failure.


Cheers

Greg

[Angla]

Thanks for the reminder. Mine stopped working on the last trip out as I check it at the end of every trip. Up to the marine shop tomorrow to get a bigger better one Arr Arr.

Will fit it tomorrow afternoon

It is a must in my book

What boat are you geting? If it is a cat I would have 1 in each pontoon with auto and override as it would be crook to have 1 full pontoon. If its a mono just 1 big one with auto and override

I do think 3 batteries could be an overkill though. If you can't trust 2 batteries get 2 better batteries

Angla

[catchy_fishy]

Glad I asked - thanks for the responses, and now to answer the questions too many to quote and pate each one.

1. Never thought of #a cracked hull
2. Read the post and answered on leaving your bungs out - done that already - on a river fortunately
3. Legal - bilge pump not required in SA
4. Finga's questions - not related but things have got worse - the prop was seized to the shaft as well, and they've had to break it off, now checking impellors, thankfully the dealer is picking up the costs, haven't even got to the ignition issues yet
5. The cricket - try not to get involved, prefer Ausfish
6. Where would I put it, I have inspection hatches already cut, so somehow in the hull through the hatches I suppose - Your assumption that water cannot enter is wrong - small cracks (wonder why I never thought of a big crack) let it through even in rain on land from the deck
7. 15 nm - yep, that's what the Cert of Fitness is rated for
8. wet deck - self draining deck with scuppers
9. I have a bucket - originally intended to wash down blood etc from fish - but nice to know it has a second use
10. All the safety kit you can have, as backup, flares etc - I have all the legal stuff and a bit extra. Now I will get a bilge pump or two.
11. Thank you

There were those that said I was mad to buy a boat as I knew nothing about boating. They were my best buddies and they were right. When I bought the boat I hasd not spent more than 20 minutes behind the stern. Thanks to you guys I'm getting better everyday. There's no better school to learn than this forum.

Sometimes you've just gotta be brave enough top ask - its quite embarrasing sometimes :-[ :-[, but hey

Thanks again

Catchy Fishy

[Reef_Ranger]

I have an old CC Reef Ranger 18 presently being restored to its former glory. #

It has a raised rear bilge area where the bilge pumps (1x1500gph; 1x500gph) are located. #This is fine for any water coming in from the top as everything drains to this location, but there is a sealed cavity for all areas below the floor and the the fuel tank which is inaccessible. #The only way to drain water from this section is to open the bungs up when on the trailer. #Therefore if I cracked the hull the below floor section would fill.

I have tried to attach a photo (with no luck - is 133KB too much) of the rear of the boat when I replaced the floor. #The fuel tank hold is isolated but draines to the lower bilge when the bung is removed. #All areas under the floor drain to the lower bilge. #Saying that, since I have replaced the floor, I see no way how water can get from the upper deck to below unless something cracks.

How do I overcome this problem???? #Space is limited. #Below the fuel tank would only have a gap of 25-40mm and below the existing bilge area would be lucky to be 50mm.

Is an inspection hatch a good idea, or is this just going to let water leak down into the lower bilge??

The boat is 25yrs old now and hasn't sunk YET ;).

I am fairly inexperienced to offshore fishing, so I welcome fellow members input. #All my previous boats were smaller open tinnies.

Sam

[catchy_fishy]

welcome to ausfish

Love seeing the first post by a member. I'm sure you'll get all the answers you ever want. If you don't get sufficient answers through this post give it a few days and try reposting with your specific problem -

Welcome any way - hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

Mike

[Reef_Ranger]

Resized pic to 66KB - still no go >:(
Sam

[catchy_fishy]

hmmm, what exactly are you doing. If it is <100kb it should attach. You need to attach via the Browse button, dont just paste the link in there

[finga64]

Gidday catchy :)

Mate, as long as your learning that's all anybody can ask.
Don't be afraid to ask questions as how else do you know.
Realistically, somebodies "silly" question may be something that nobody has thought about so we may all learn something new.

By the sounds of it your on a very steep learning curve where motors are concerned :'(

But you'll be on the water soon :D

P.S. How's SA going in the winter Olympics?? ;)

[billfisher]

Catchy Fishy,

What is the cert. of fitness? I haven't heard of such a thing. Are you saying it tells you how far you can take your boat out to sea. 15 nm is a very long way in a 5m boat. You will not be able to outrun a change for the worse in the weather and would find it very hard going in a rough sea. This is asumming its a mono hull. Its not a cat by any chance?

[dnej]

As an adjunct to these posts, when you test your pump, never assume that it is working, just because you can hear it turning over.
I assumed, and when it was for real , the impellor,was not connected, to the shaft
Test it with water
David

[Grand_Marlin]

G'day Catchy Fishy.

Aways ask any questios you like. #I think the more experienced boaters on here sometimes get a bit complacent with what they "take for granted" that pepole would know.... me included.

It is sometimes like a reality check for us, to make us stop and think.

No question is ever too silly, and when you are talking the sea, may just save your life one day.

Now, back to your boat.
It is excellent that you have a self draining deck... the safest scenario possible.

It it were my boat, I would mount a couple of smaller ones (or bigger ones if money / space is not the issue).
Mount them wherever needed.

The other think I would do is lightly seal all those cracks in the floor with silicone.
That is provided that they are not storage hatches etc that you have to get into all the time.
Usually these hatches just cover fuel tanks.... but I could be wrong.

Dont put silicone right under and all around the hatch so as it can never be lifted again.... just lightly seal it from the top. #If you ever have to get into it, a stanley knife will easily cut the silicone seal.

Reef Ranger.... if you are worried about it, you can cut an inspection port into the floor.
They are available from Bias etc, and are cheap as chips. Get one about 6" or 8" diameter so as you have room to work.

They have an o ring seal to stop water getting in.
When you cut the holes in the floor for the port, make sure you seal the cut eges of the floor boards to prevent rot.
Silicon seal the underside of the port and screw it in place.

Cheers

Pete

[redspeckle]

Catchy _Fishy
I have 2 bilge pumps in my boat one underfloor at 500gph and a another on top at rate of 2500gph separate switches for each one and both pump water out drivers side (starboard side) so i can see both working from this side thats why they also tell tail on outboards same side
I have also a screw inspection hatch right where the under floor bilge is not working easy get at it and to fix it
You be :o how much water gets in you boat when it rains heavy
Mitch
Have a nice day :)

[catchy_fishy]

Catchy Fishy,

What is the cert. of fitness? I haven't heard of such a thing. Are you saying it tells you how far you can take your boat out to sea. 15 nm is a very long way in a 5m boat. You will not be able to outrun a change for the worse in the weather and would find it very hard going in a rough sea. This is asumming its a mono hull. Its not a cat by any chance?


Cert of fitnes (COF) just terminology I'm sure - it's the seaworthy certificate renewed annually

This is where I have learned of a significant difference in Aus regulations vs SA regulations I am not about to challenge one over the other, but the little I know in Sa is that you need to be prepared to stay at sea to stay through a storm, if necessary. Category types:

Cat A boat - 40nm + (commercial fishing vessels)
Cat B boat - up to 40 nm
Cat C Boat up to 15 nm
Cat D up to 5nm including tidal inland waters
Cat R - inland water only (not even harbour / estaury - may not be tidal)

I'm sure you have similar systems. Catchy fishy is rated Cat C

Key thing I have found out - In aus you do not have to carry a capsize rope
Not sure about in Aus but we have to carry a drogue anchor for use in fould weather, or when surf beaching / launching
Buoyancy must be minimum 60% (6kg buoyancy to 10kg laden weight) and legislated now that all new inspections must prove foam filled hulls, not bottles

There may be more differences but I'm hoping not to have to go through the entire Skippers manual.

Mike

[harry_h01]

On the question of bilge pumps, where is it best to locate them?

I have just bought my first boat, and there is no pump fitted.

The boat is a 15ft glass Crusader. It has two bungs, with one being for the normal deck area and one for the under deck. The under deck area is sealed other than the bung. There are no inspection holes etc.

So my question is, do I install one on the deck level (below the false floor)? Or do I get a hole cut down into the under floor area and install one there?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Harry

[GBC]

Harry,

Install all bungs etc as if you were making ready to go to sea. Spray a hose around and the water will find the lowest point (usually a bilge). This is where you want a pump to deal with any water coming from the topsides.
Installing pumps into sealed areas requires some thought, as sealed areas save the boat when it is filled suddenly (waves etc.). I'd ask the question about how much do I trust my hull not to split, and if I generally get little or no water from the bottom bung, i'd be tempted to leave it as a sealed entity. You will need to install a bilge outlet hose to the outside of the vessel, and ensure that this line cannot siphon water back into the boat in the case of immersion, which could turn a bad situation into disaster in the case of waves in the boat.

In reply to the Cruise Craft guy, the bungs in the floor of the fuel tank compartment effectively seal this area in the case of a wave coming into the boat. There might also be bungs in the cabin area. You need to choose if you want the water to get under the deck or not. i.e if the bungs are out and the boat cops a gutfull, water can run through the boat to where the pump is. If the bungs are left in, you'll have to manually bail the half cab area of the boat, but you'll have floatation. Tanks in cruise crafts (outsiders from experience) float and damage the floor above when they are half full of water - believe me it is best to keep the bungs in.....
Hope this helps
C.J.

[charleville]

The question has been answered so I cannot add to the answer but in the same theme, I was amazed how much rainwater entered my Quinnie one day when I got caught in a thunderstorm in the Jacobs Well channel.

A lot of lighting happening right on top of me made me nervous about being in a tinnie on the water so I headed for home as quickly as I could but found the boat skewing around a lot until I realised that there was quite a lot of water sloshing around underfloor and turned on the bilge pump to see a very full jet of water being pumped out of the side at the stern.

The thunderstorm had only been going a few minutes but it was bucketing down and it was surprising just how much rainwater accumulated in the time.

Since then, I am always checking to see that leaves are not clogging the pump.

[cooky]

Installing pumps into sealed areas requires some thought, as sealed areas save the boat when it is filled suddenly (waves etc.). I'd ask the question about how much do I trust my hull not to split, and if I generally get little or no water from the bottom bung, i'd be tempted to leave it as a sealed entity.

so now I'm confused. My boat is a South Aust Northbank. We left a bung out once and had left the bungs out in the floor - so filled with water to floor level. I really wanted a bilge in under floor area after, but contaced manufacturer first. They strongly recommended I didn't mount a bilge under the floor as it's sealed - said even an inspection hatch could let water in and jeapardise design or something. It's not self draining - just flows to transom and has bilge pump located (I think a rule 500 or 1000 - will have to check now). So I'm assuming the bilge is to help with wave, spray, rain on top deck and I'm rooted if I get a hole in the bottom - although top deck would be sealed and I guess still provide bouyancy. It doesn't have 4 bungs - 3 normal and one large (for the back section where bilge is) - I'll have to check to see if they're 3 different sections - so theory of crack, hole is isolated - but I'm pretty sure it's not - but if not, why have 3 or 4 bung holes?
here's a photo of 3 of them - the forth is obviously on the outside - other side of motor.

[cooky]

this is from the inside - where my bilge is behind the fuel tank - also where the large bung is. Would the use of the large bung hold be for some sort of self draining capacity - draining water out when on the plane?
Maybe I should use the Rule 500 for a live bait tank set-up or similar and upgrade to something very large.

What about the use of those larger deck wash pumps as a bilge too? can you set one up to operate as a bilge and a deck wash? they pump a fair bit of water I'm pretty sure.

[GBC]

If it were my boat I'd leave the bottom section sealed and maybe upgrade the rule to whatever you can afford - maybe two to have redundancy.
Deckwash/bait pumps generally draw from the outside of the boat and I wouldn't reccomend them for bilge emptying use. They are expensive (sureflow etc) and as Robk will agree, somewhat less reliable than a stand alone bilge pump/s rigged to a float switch.

[catchy_fishy]

I know understand why I asked this question:

It would appear from reading through the answers that some members have posted, and asked, that a wet deck out at sea in Aus is not a legal requirement ?

Self draining deck with scuppers !

Would I be correct ?

In SA you cannot go to sea (legally) unless you have a wetdeck configuration in your transom thus explaining why not everyone locally uses a bilge pump. I do agree having asked and had answers to this post that the merits outweigh the disadvantages in favour of having at least one bilge pump on board.