Two Stroke Preventative Maintenance

[Trekka273]

Just wondering what should be done after each trip to ensure the motor lasts as long as possible.

I am just aiting on my new motor being fitted, so I want to make sure that I do everything I can to keep it in good condition.

I intend on doing the following:
* Flushing with fresh water after every use
* Washing externally after each use
* Running motor out of fuel after use so that fuel cannot evaporate in the carby, leaving behind oily deposits.
* Annual service

Is there anything else that I should be doing?

[fishingrod]

You dont say what motor it its?

There is two different schools of thought re running a 2 stroke dry of fuel. As the lubrication oil is mixed in with the fuel, if you run it out of fuel, you are also running it out of oil #:-/

Im not sure if ths is the same case with the new hi-tech engines though :-? Im a old skool carby owner

You can also make sure your fuel filters are checked regularly and spray a corrosion inhibitor under the cowling (some books say not to spray up under the flywheel)

Obviously if its got a belt, dont spay anywhere near it.

[Trekka273]

Sorry, it is just a basic 2 stroke. Two cylinder, premix, electric start and forward control.

Interesting thought on running out of fuel... can see both sides of the argument on that one...

[fishingrod]

Interesting thought on running out of fuel... can see both sides of the argument on that one...

Id say as long as you run the engine every 4-8 weeks the oil in the carby issue wont matter.

Longer term storage may be a problem.

[impulse492f]

These are my points after use.

Currently use the Sig 492F every weekend (at least 1 day)

Close to port at the end of the trip I run the motor at WOT for about 1-2min to clean out any excess carbon deposits etc but always allow her to cool before turning off the motor.
Flash with fresh water at least 5 min.
Disconnect the fuel line and run until empty. If the motor is running then there is oil, it would only be a problem if you turned off the oil supply (oil injection) as there will always be oil in the fuel therefore always lubricant in the cylinders.
Check the CAV filter (water separator) for water.
Spray Lanox (Inox with Lanolin) on the motor.
And always store the motor down (in the normal running position). This position is best for the oil level etc in the motor.
Lower the motor down onto a wooden block to take the weight off the transom
Every now and again check the plugs to see how she is running and adjust the mixtures to suit, you don't want her sneezing and leaning out as thats when the problems occur.
Body wise, wash her down with a good quality wash-n-max, spray the Lanox on other metal bits-n-pieces, winch wheel nuts break lights etc.


Sound a lot but it isn't based on what might happen if you just tow her home and do nothing (cheaper to in the long run)

[blaze]

interesting topic.
some of the longest lasting motors with the least problems I have seen are pro boats.
these motors airnt flushed, used and abused daily and mostly run at WOT.
they often look rough with gouges out of cowlings, no paint on prop or lower skeg etc etc.
Why do they last so well
The internals of the motors never dry out so there is no salt deposits left to build up, they are given regular services and problems are quickly sorted out because they cant afford to have down time.
I think sometimes that people are inclined to do more harm to a motor by tinkering and playing around with things they have limited knowledge of than if they just left them alone.
My engine gets a quick flush and a squirt with the hose 90% of the time, set a plugs and fuel filter (cav296) once a year. Maybe a spray with inox when topping up my oil reserve.
cheers
blaze

[deek]

I also use a squirt of Morning Fresh dishwahser liquid. I was told it helps in the prevention of corrosion in the impellar area and the water intakes.

[Oldyella]

Have to agree with Blaze on the "Treat em mean" technique. The old hire boats seem to go forever.
I now have an ELTPO, I don't run it out of fuel, but with my pre-mix motor, I would always keep the fuel fresh and add some Petrolpower to keep the varnish away. I would run with a disconected fuel line until it started to pick up speed. (Leaning out) and then shut it off. Never run the motor without water not even briefly.(This can shear the impeller) and use a bit of Inox/Lanox to help sheild against corrosion.

[spuderico]

The same principle applies to the motor in a car. Taxis have been known to do a 1,000,000 ks without major rebuilds to the internals. The secret is that they rarely get to cool down and started again where the damage is done, and are regularly serviced. The start stop start stop of the weekend warrior works in reverse. ;)

[wessel]

You guys keep on referring to this Inox stuff, must be Australian ;)

Would it be the same or similar as CRC contact cleaner???? (According to the label on the can - penetrates, cleans and leaves a light oil residue.)

Would you ever inject anti freeze through the cooling system and let it stand for a couple of days to get rid of any salt deposits that may have formed on the inside? (Commercial products to do this job is not available here, you gotta use what you have got.)

[Trekka273]

Some good ideas there, thanks everyone.

I guess there is not heaps that I can do. Just make sure that it is flushed properly, cleaned and serviced regularly.

I am hoping to be using it at least once a month, which shoud help to keep it in good condition, but I need to be careful that it is cleaned/flushed properly after each trip just in case it sits for longer.

[Oldyella]

Inox/Lanox is said #be better that WD40 as it is 100% non-conductive, and good around Outboard electronics. WD40 has a reputation of eating away at rubber seals etc, wheres for a few buckaziods more you can get the Aussie made stuff. #http://www.inox-mx3.com/inox.htm
For those axe-men out there, it quietens noisy amp/guitar pots too.

[impulse492f]

Wesset,

Yes Inox/Lanox is similar to that & WD40. They all do the same sort of job. I use Lanox for the Lanolin as it’s a great anti-rust inhibitor.

The theme is the more you use your outboard the better for it, which is true (like the taxi comparison). This is why the commercial/hire boats go forever, they are constantly in use, no time for the salt and shit to build up/stagnate in the internals.

The only item I would add is if you plan to store the motor over winter say then remove the plugs and squirt some oil (say your 2 stroke) into the cylinders and turn it over a couple of times. Also you should drain and refill your gearbox oil (to remove any salt etc)

[wayne_cook]

any comments on max when flushing.
I use it about once every 6 weeks.

[redspeckle]

Terkka273
I do the same as impulse429f but I have premix 2stroke motor don't run it dry its drys the seals out inside the motor and I give spark plugs clean every 4 0r 5th trip done it always runs good (yes i do the correct ratio 50mls of to one litre of fuel )
Mitch
Go the Cowboys in 2006

[Trekka273]

Thanks everyone!

Looks like I just have to go out fishing more often!!!! ;D Be a good excuse.... "I need to go out to keep the motor in good condition"

[Oldyella]

Zachery.. ;)

[whiteman]

Run it dry???
Add dishwashing liquid to the flush water??

Are you guys kidding?

Just keep the motor well serviced (at least annually) by a reputable mechanic and keep it active even just to flush it on the muffs. And re-read your manual.

"Winterising" is a different topic.

[impulse492f]

Run it dry???
Add dishwashing liquid to the flush water??

Are you guys kidding?

Just keep the motor well serviced (at least annually) by a reputable mechanic and keep it active even just to flush it on the muffs. And re-read your manual.

"Winterising" is a different topic.


No I'm not kidding, the way I "flush" :P my 2 stroke 85 Suzuki is correct.

And i quote


"Once you've got your boat out of the water you can flush out the engine. Attach a garden hose to your outboard's freshwater flushing port. Older engines may require the use of a flushing attachment. Turn on the water, start the engine, and the water pump will begin to flush out the system. Let your outboard run for a good 5-10 minutes to make certain you've flushed out the engine completely, then you can disconnect the fuel line. This will allow the engine to burn away any remaining fuel in the lines."

You can find this info on the Suzuki web site here with a video http://suzukimarine.com/faqs/episode08.html

Happy "flushing" ;D

[DaveSue_Fishos_Two]

I have never had anything but 2 strokes. I flush everytime after use, and I use a drum. Into that drum (which is quite large), I put a capful of TurtleWash. ;) #After 15mins of running, I disconnect the fuel line. When the engine stops, I let it cool, and give it a spray of wd 40. I change the plugs every two years and the gear oil and check the impellor. I only replace the impellor if there are signs of wear. I can honestly say (touch wood) that I have never had any major probs. :) #My current 40hp Evinrude is 16years old and has never, ever failed me. I'm 44yo and have had outboards for 30 years.
Maybe I've been lucky :D

Cheers
Dave

[Oldyella]

You can't run your OB for 15 minutes in many places of residence. Especially units, complexes or at the ramp. You will make many enemies real quick. Also, about those impellers.. They quite often don't slowly wear out.. rather they become delaminated from the metal bush which to which the rubber is vulcanised. That means INSTANT failure. Unless you have two motors, you are taking a gamble, not servicing the WP bi-annually. An alternative to "Running out of fuel" is to keep the carb bowls full by occasionally squeezing the bulb until hard. This prevents evaporation. Running out still leaves a bit of fuel/air in the carbs that can turn to gum quickly.

[billfisher]

Hmmm - my motor corroding or the neighbours putting up with a bit of noise.
So long as you don't flush it at 2am I don't see the problem. Its no more noisy than a lawnmower, especially if you put a wet hessian bag or one of those silencers over the exhaust outlet.

Most manuals state that the impeller should be replaced once a year. This might be a bit on cautious side, but the idea is not to wait for a problem to occur.

I don't run my motors dry since I read it may deprive the motor of oil and cause scuffing of the cylinders as it runs out. If you are not going to use is for a while run it with fuel containing a preserver and this will stop problems such as gum and varnish formation in the carby and fuel system.

[Oldyella]

I had an old 1980 "Salty" that had some mild corriosion in the water jacket (head cover) that was easy to patch up. I don't think it was meticulously flushed for long periods prior to me buying it. Most of the corrosion was in the wiring loom. I think we tend to over react on the flushing.. The idea is to get any salt build up out and use the motor regularly. You can add this to the fuel. It's the ducks guts... http://www.apchem.com.au/Downloads/CPD/Chemtech%20Petrol%20Power%20FandB%20Flyer.pdf

[Trekka273]

From the sounds of it there does not seem to be any 100% "right" way to do this... Although the quote from the Suzuki manual was interesting.

I guess it will just be a matter of flushing, keeping the motor clean and tidy and getting it serviced annually.

I will have to have a look at what the manual for the new motor advises when I pick it up tomorrow.

[johnnytheone]

The more you use 'em the better they run - new fuel, new oil, plenty of water through the motor. When we (I say we, I mean about me and a million other guys) fish the crays over in Perth just before xmas, the boat gets roughly 1-1.5 hours every day. That's a bit of idling around the pots buts mostly a hard run in and out so you're not too late for work. They love it. You don't see many regulars having smokey or difficult starts and very few breakdowns.
It's like that other thing - You have to use it or it doesn't work as well!

John

[wessel]

Here is my take on flushing.... and pardon me if it is a long winded rant.


A 2 stroke should never be run for more than 30 seconds max without any water going through it. And that is on the outside of being safe. The impellor requires water for lubrication, and as it was said in the movie "Evolution", there is always time for lubrication. ::)

Heat and salty water will result in salt builtup inside of the engine water jacket. That is why we flush it, to get that crap out. The problem is not so much the salt itself, but rather the free electrons associated with the salt. The free electrons and the metal reacts which in the long run will result in corrosion. That is why we have sacrificial anodes on the engines, you sacrifice a piece of metal to save the engine in the long run.

The water jacket itself has thermostats built in to it. The engine as a whole, or rather the cooling circuit inside of the engine will allow for the engine to warm up first before the thermostat will open to allow the cooling of the whole engine internally.
That is why we run the engine for at least 10 minutes while we flush it. A short run will not allow the engine to warm up enough and for the thermostats to open to allow flushing of the complete engine jacket.

Also, you disolve more salt in warm water than in cold water - basic science

Now here is where I am stepping outside of what manufacturers recommend.
When adding any chemical to the flushing media, be careful.

The intent is to remove any salt deposits that may have developed inside the cooling circuit and which was not flushed out from using normal water. You need something that will disolve the salt deposits and also prevent it from forming again. Glycol has a few properties associated with it, apart from causing liver cancer so be careful when handling the stuff, which makes it ideal for "conditioning" the cooling circuit.

You flush the engine with pure antifreeze basically, and lots of it. (Make sure that the dog dont try and drink any of the stuff that might spill. For some strange reason animals love to try and drink the stuff)
NO - I AM NOT WINTERIZING THE ENGINE.

Antifreeze is designed to run inside of engines, car shampoo is not.
It has a slight lubricating action, good for impellor.
It desolves salt and other oxidation compounds better than pure running water
It is not corrosive to any seals or gaskets normally used in an engine

I am still looking into this idea of storing the engine in a certain position because of where the oil flows to. Not so sure about the internal designs of an engine but I am looking in to it.

Running a carburettor dry - The jury is out on that one. Half of the engineers here were spitting feathers about that idea, the other half reckon it was a good thing to do. Once they reach concensus I will feed back any pertinent information

That was my 0.02 cents

Wessel

[wessel]

OK, I am in trouble with the boss at work about questions about boat engines ;)

Did find this before I had my can kicked all over the place

powerandmotoryacht.com/columns/maintenanceqa/0202qa/index1.html


There is a wealth of information in this Q&A section. Focus is more on big inboard boats, but you can get lost in things about turbos, engine problem fixes etc

Have fun

Wessel

[whiteman]

If you do what the manual tells you, you are taking the advice of the mob who designs, builds, tests and warrants the motor. Any other advice (like mine) is probably bad.

[Trekka273]

Picked up my boat with the new motor fitted tonight... ;D Can't wait to be able to take it out!!!

The guy at the dealership advised that unless the motor was not being used for a long period of time, there is no absolute need to drain the motor of fuel. If leaving unused for a while, then drain. His advice in this department was to remove the fuel hose and let the motor idle until you just hear the revs start to increase slightly and then shut it down straight away. His other suggestion was to remove the fuel line and let the engine run for 20-30 seconds and then just switch it off.

Obviously flushing is a good idea, so long as the motor is left running long enough for the engine to heat up and the thermostadt to open up.

As many would know, he simply said poor quality fuel/oil, or old fuel, is the biggest killer. If you use decent oil and fuel that is not too old there should not really be any problems.

[dinky]

with my 75hp merc 2 stroke i was told to flush it in a bucket of fresh water but, put in a dash of vinegar.Apparently it helps get rid of salt.Does anybody else do this ?

[Trekka273]

Took my new motor for a three hour run on the weekend.... I am very happy!!

The motor is so much smoother than the old one, and I am sure that when it is fully run in it will give me a higher top end than the previous motor.

Did three hours straight running (on 25:1 mixture as per the manual). Another couple of hours running and it can go back to 100:1. I was surprised that even at 25:1 it was not all that smokey. Should be fantastic at 100:1.

[billfisher]

Trekka 273,

Your motor will last longer if run on 50:1 rather than 100:1. The 100:1 ratio is a marketing strategy and a concession to the environment. There is nothing different about the motor which makes it run on less oil. Over the years 50:1 has benn found to be the best ratio for engine longevity.

[Trekka273]

Thanks for the tip billfisher.

Wouldn't this make the motor more prone to "clogging up" with oil? I know on our last motor (an old Yamaha) we were roginally running it at 50:1, and it wasn't running all that well, especially at idle. We had a look through the book (as we got the boat/motor second hand) and saw that the mixture should have been 100:1. When we ran the motor with that it seemed to run a lot smoother, especially at idle speeds.

[billfisher]

There is nothing different about these motors that makes them run better on 100:1. You will get extra wear with a 100:1 ratio, 50:1 is the way to go if you want your engine to last a long time.

[dnej]

Trekka 273,
That is an unusual ratio you are running. 50 ml to the litre. This equates to 20:1 mix. Didnt you say you were running 25 to 1, if so you need 40ml oil to 1000ml fuel.
If you want 50 to one, you need 20 ml per litre of fuel.
That is 50ml of fuel, to 1ml of oil. Therefore 1000ml of fuel should have 20ml of oil added.
Regards David

[Trekka273]

Dnej, not sure what you are referring to there... I never said I was using 50 ml to the litre, I said it was running a 25:1 ratio.
According to the manual, after run-in the mixture should be 100:1. A few guys have pointed out that it would be best to run it at 50:1 to protect the engine more.

[dnej]

Terkka 723,
Sorry, the original post was from Mitch. See below.

Regards David


Terkka273
I do the same as impulse429f but I have premix 2stroke motor don't run it dry its drys the seals out inside the motor and I give spark plugs clean every 4 0r 5th trip done it always runs good (yes i do the correct ratio 50mls of to one litre of fuel ) Mitch
Go the Cowboys in 2006

[onerabbit]

Wessel,

how do you add Glycol to your flushing solution? Run the motor in a drum? Please expand.
Really not sure about running vinegar through the system, thought it would be corrosive in itself??????
Have to stand with Billfisher, I was advised by my mechanic (Mick , now at Sailfish ) to add oil in my tanks to 100 to 1, I use 4 portable tanks, the motor will never seize with that much oil, even if the injectors fail, just burns what It doesnt need.

Muzz