request from rescue skipper

[longtail]

hi all

went fishing down the pin today , was about 1/2 way out the pin bar chasing tailor when i noticed a large cat approaching me. first thought was water police coming to check on my safety gear , but no it was rescue vessel 'b1' from vmr jacobs well .

they waved at me and pulled up beside me and then asked me - ' g'day mate , can you help us out? ' so i said 'how can i help you?' to which the skipper replied ' you see that 12' tinny over there just beyond the breakers? do you mind going out the bar and towing him back in ? you see i'm not legally permitted to go out there' :o :oWTF :o

if the rescue crew is not legally allowed to cross the bar then why insist on people logging on at jacobs well?

am i missing something here?? does this sound strange to anyone else??

BTW they're vessel was about 8 foot longer than mine aside from the fact that it was a cat , why couldn't they go out and get this tinny? why did they want to risk my life/boat?

before anyone gets the wrong idea , i would not hesitate to help someone out on the water , but i have never crossed the pin bar before so therefore don't know where the channel is , based on this i made the decision to say no and told them to call the water police.


confused
jason 8-)

[seabug]

Perhaps the cat was a PUSSY ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[moreton]

To cross a bar a rescue skipper has to be accredited (show he or she is competant to do the task). Most skippers at VMR Jacobs Well would have that qualification. I am guessing thats why this skipper didn't go themselves as unqualified you are not permitted. You certainly did the right thing by declining their request to tow a boat back over the bar. With out the proper training or knowledge, at the least, a swim is on the cards.
Cheers Ian

[finga64]

I had the same sort of request a while back but it was because they couldn't get to the boat in trouble. The water was too shallow for them to get them.
No problems with me helping whenever possible. Pity the people we helped didn't appreciate the lengths we went to to help them :-/
You did the right thing concerning the bar...if in doubt don't do it...it would have been a hard but very wise dicision from your point of view. Well done longtail :)

[Darryl]

As i said today Jason that's insane but later i thought maybe that there was a shortage of properly acredited skippas around midweek. But then it brought me back to my auxillary fire fighting days up north and you never rolled an applaince without an officer in case of a 000 call.

Weird but i'm sure Lloyd will have an answer for us.

Darryl.

[longtail]

yeah darryl , i'm waiting for lloyld to put a comment up. i'm sure he'll be able to give me an reason for this request.

when i got back to the ramp and logged off , the radio op thanked me for hanging around out there while they were assessing their options.

i'm only sorry i couldn't do more , but without local knoweledge of the bar i would have been needing rescue myself.


cheers
jason

[Ocean_Spirit]

Yeah interesting a couple of years ago coming back through the Noosa Bar, we came across a family of about 5 people in trouble. (Mum, Dad and 3 Kids all between 2 - 7). One of the young girls could not swim. They got caught in a tidal current on a run out tide. We swung the Seafarer around and put ourselves in a fairly awkward position to assist these people, and as many will know, the Noosa Bar is very shallow and it was a rough day. We did not have time to radio the Coast Guard etc. even though these people were standed in line of sight of the tower.

Cut a long story short, I had cut my hand open a couple of nights before on an anchor and had 11 stitches and pinched a bloody painful nerve. So I reached in with that hand, busted all the stitches to get these people out of the water. In the meantime there was both a VMR boat and a Charter Boat (cat) that came roaring past us leaving barely any room between us and the people in the water. My other crew member was waving these boats down to slow down at least, and better, offer some assistance, and the useless pricks wouldn't.

Needless to say, I'm proud to think we possibly saved some lives that morning, and the sense of satisfaction was tremendous. It was very frustrating to comprehend the attitude of the two other skippers, in what was a blatantly obvious rescue situation.

[subzero]

Morning all, interesting post.
Everyone here has put in some good input, and yes their are reasons for everything... well almost everything, have no answer to what happened with Oceon_Spirit

Rescue Skippers (or Restricted Skippers), must meet a number of criteria placed on them by the Water Police, Qld Tpt Maritime Safety Division, the parent body... in our case VMRAQ, and then the rescue Unit involved itself.
These criteria can be about the boat itself, and or the person in charge of the Rescue Vessel.
Firstly the boat, to cross a bar a vessel equipped with outboards must have at least 2 outboards in case 1 fails when crossing a bar. This all stemed from an event 10 years ago when a highly regarded Unit and Crew were crossing a bar in really nasty conditions to go on a Rescue and the motor failed right at the wrong moment. Boat broached and was wrecked, Crew went for a swim, long story, was all filmed and shown on TV. (Their are in my opinion legal exemptions to this and in fact if the vessel commander was confident that he could do it safely and didnt, this could cause serious repercussions for anyone involved with regards to failing in their Duty of Care as the Master of their Vessel, another long story).
Ok, restrictions on the Skipper, firstly under the 6 metre rule, (size of comercial rescue boat), if it falls under that, if at the discretion of the Duty Skipper, Unit Training Co-Ordinator and depending on the individual unit possibly the Commodore, those having attained Senior Crewing status who are deemed competant to keep themselves out of mischeif, can be released to go out and train without a qualified Skipper on board. In the event of an emergency, if the person comanding the boat, UTC, Water Police, Commodore, Duty Skipper feel comfortable that those on the boat are caqpable of doing a job that comes in, approval can be given very quickly and only requires 3 people to ok it. (You must remember that insurers will quite often look for ways to not pay out if their is a problem and this also does not help the situation).
Some other restrictions placed on Skippers in training, which may include Senior Crew or Restricted Skippers are for instance at our place
Restricted North
Restricted South
Appendixes A, B, C, D all relate to different areas
Restricted Day
Restricted Bar Crossing
Restricted to particular vessels, VP1, VP2 or VP3
In a lot of the above cases, it does not mean they are not competant, sometimes just to give the person time to gain confidence is the only reason they may be in place, in others, they may not have done a bar crossing in quite some time because of cost issues for fuel where they have not been able to go out to keep their skills up.

For the actual nuts and bolts of the original post, sometimes it is very difficult to keep a fully unrestricted Skipper on during the week, that doesnt mean he or they could not have done the job if need be in a real emergency. The Skipper may have done 100's of bar crossings, be very familiar with the bar itself, but not have displayed that competancy enough times since joining that unit in that particular vessel. (Even if a person comes to the Unit with all the experience and qualifications in the world their are certain competancies that can not be just signed off till they have displayed proficiency on a number of occassions, nor should they). Usually a Skipper can be found with NO restrictions very quickly when assembling the callout crew if need be.

Longtail, you did the right thing, as did the VMR Jacobs Well person in charge of the Vessel. (Would have been wise to ask you if you were happy or competant to do as he asked, and perhaps he did, sometimes these things can be lost in the translation).
If in the event of a tinny was outside the bar and I had a Restricted Skipper inside the bar whom was not rated for bar crossings, when I had my own Roster I would not have directed or ALLOWED my people to cross the bar as it was NOT A LIFE THREATENING SITUATION. (Nor would I have asked for dispensation to do it). Another vessel and crew were probably rounded up to do it, or perhaps even VMR Southport were called up for a run to retreive the boat for them.
I hope you all understand the reasons for Jacobs Well appearing not to do the right thing, they are a very proffessional Unit who followed the rules and restrictions placed upon them and did it by the book. Comanders of Rescue Vessels do not just magicly appear, it is an ongoing process before they can meet all the demands placed upon them and all restrictions removed.

Kind Regards
Lloyd

[catchy_fishy]

very detailed and informative response. Thanks for taking the time to put it together.

Mike

[longtail]

thanks for the explanation Lloyd.

i thought it was something like that but wasn't sure. obviously the training and qualification program has gotten more indepth since i was a active member of Bris and Redlands ASR.

the skipper did ask me if i felt i was a competent skipper but at the time i did not realise what he was going to ask me to do. since i bought this new boat i have towed 4 vessels back to ramp (2 jacobs well , 2 viccy point) but towing through the bar is a totally different matter. if i had experience in bar crossings i would have been happy to help tho' .

once again thanks for the info Lloyd.


cheers
jason

[blaze]

Just a thought
what would the possiblity of going through the bar and towing him out to sea further be, probable be a better place to wait for help than sitting just on the outside of a bar.
dont think I would like to tow through a bar, you would to have perfect timing.
would you put the people on the standed boat onto the rescue boat?
I think I would and also have a bloody sharp knife to sever the tow rope.
cheers
blaze

[nigelr]

Well done Jason.
A wise and brave decision on your part, in a very difficult situation!
No point having two boats in trouble!
Cheers.

[MulletMan]

Any rescue skipper can take the vessel offshore even if he is NOT qualified i.e. An Inshore Skipper.

Every rescue skipper is automatically given an Offshore Skippers licence from MSQ. It is the actual VMR or AVCG unit that imposes further restrictions eg Bar crossings, night work etc.

But in this case, he must firstly obtain approval of the Resource Officer from his Unit, the Water Police and his own crew. Obviously he must believe the situation demands such action and he, his crew and vessel are capable of the operation.

This is clearly spelt out in the vessels Certificate of Registration that is carried on all commercial boats and pertains to rescue operations in other than approved waters or conditions.

The VMR Skipper made the right choice but not a brilliant idea to send another boat out across the bar.
Had that vessel foundered or sunk, or worse, he would be in all sorts of trouble!

[subzero]

As I understand it there was no one on the boat so it was not a life threatening situation.
If people were on the boat, the job would have been likely done immediately by the Rescue Vessel... difficult to say without me being there though.

Yes Blaze, an option would have been to go through the bar if confident of getting out and back in safely, like you say, maybe tow the vessel out of harms way untill someone who could tow the boat back through the bar safely could do it.
When towing, normally if their is any risk to the people in the other boat, yes you take them on board particualy with little kids etc on to the Rescue Vessel before coming in. (Sometimes it is safer to leave them where they are also, it really depends on curcumstances, safely transferring them to your boat etc, likelyhood of the boat sinking etc). Wherever possible it is preffered to leave someone on the vessel you are towing to assist with their own steerage and this is usually the case in most instances.

If it is deemed too dangerous by the Rescue Vessel Commander, the other boat can also be taken to a safe anchorage, beached or anchored up untill conditions improve.... at the end of the day we are supposed to only be their to look after the people... the boat is of a secondary concern....

If a Rescue boat is towing either by bridle or sampson post it will have a quick release mechanism of some sort normally by the way it is tied off on our end, if the crew have done their job properly release if need be will be instantaneous. Trying to cut a line under tension is very difficult, if the shite hits the fan you are probably not going to cut through it on time.
Cheers Lloyd

[subzero]

Agreed PP, my old sensei ;)

[MulletMan]

Subzero, Let the force be with you my son!

[longtail]

thanks for the clarification guys ;)

makes it all clear now 8-)


jason