Re-engineering for a higher tow capacity - QLD

[Fat Chilli]

Hi, has anyone here (in QLD) had their tow vehicle re-engineered to a higher tow capacity, if so can you recommend an engineer.

The dilema I face:
I am still (yes still) looking for my ideal boat, preferably a glass cuddy of around 5m LOA. Most boat/motor/trailer of this length weigh around 1000kg - 1200kg which exceeds my 4x4's tow capacity.
Yes its pathetic that a fully rigged, regeared (4.56 ratio, Air locked, 33's, Heavy duty slip yoke eliminator etc.) Jeep Wrangler has only a 900kg tow capacity #>:(. A RAV4 can out tow it, they are rated to 1500kg, which is sad as a Wrangler has a solid full chasis, solid diffs and a 4 litre straight six. All up it is stronger and has far more torque.
I have in the past towed a 2 ton trailer from Victoria up to Tamborine MT with no problems at all; however, this was obviously not legal. For insurance reason when towing a boat I would prefer to be legal.
I have written to Jeep and Daimler Chysler (no response) and asked why such a low tow capacity.
I have two mates in the southern states (Vic and ACT) who have successfully had them re-engineered to 1500kg by adding rear disk brakes, but this does not equate, as we all know the rear is only 30% of your braking power. The Rubicon version (only available in the US) is fitted with rear disks, yet it still only has a 900kg (2000lb) tow capacity. None of which helps me because QLD is a different kettle of fish :o.
Before anyone says, buy a Tojo or Nissan (nah!) I am not about to get into a 4x4 slagging match, I am simply wanting your knowledge, assistance or contacts, if they can help out.
Buying a tow vehicle will eat into the boat fund :'(.

Thanks

FC.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/ausjeep/CarRamp1.jpg

[Ocean_Spirit]

GO THE JEEP!

Buy a Cherokee. I have towed the 2T + Seafarer no warries.

But in all seriousness, the lower tow capacity is related to the short wheel base.

[Gbanger]

cant help you with your dilemma, im just surprise the rears are drums!!

[Fat Chilli]

Ocean_Spirit -
I can't see how it could be the wheelbase, there's only 288mm between the Wrangler and the RAV4.
As for the Wheelbase, sorry but I see that as being wrong!
If it was wheelbase then why can the Jeep KJ Cherokee 2.4 Petrol only tow a maximum of 900kg, compared to the 3.7 V6 (2275kg max) or the 2.8 CRD (2800kg max). All three have the same wheelbase (2649mm). It can't be a question of power for the Wrangler :-/

It also can't be torque, the Cherokee 3.7 V6 produce 307nm at 3800rpm, where as a (stock) Wrangler produces 296 at 3500rpm.

Gbanger - I wish we could get the modelwith rear disks over her but they don't bring it in, but if disks are so great anywhere else but on the front of a vehicle, then why do trucks still have them on the rear? Larger surface contact area? As stated in the original post, the rear is only responsible for 30% of braking power. (I don't think that they are the issue for such a low towcapacity?)
Nissan navara's still have rear drums (With the exception of the top of the line model) , the Nissan TD42dx leaf sprung Patrol ute's als still have them.

Thanks for the feedback, It did make me research other Jeep capacities in more detail. Cheers

[peterreb]

It has a lot to do with the actual weight of your towing vehicle,I have a commodore ute V6 and it can tow 1800kgs with rear discs, the Mazda tribute we have can only tow 1600kgs with rear drum brakes. But get this,the Bravo 4x4 deisol utes are rated the same as the commodore.

[on-one]

Could it be an exercise in limiting liability? Towing ability is unlikely to be a big factor in deciding to buy a wrangler so I wonder if Jeep just put a very low towing limit on them as it's one less thing they can be sued for. Perhaps the requirement to fit disc brakes had less to do with changing the ability of the vehicle and more that the engineer wanted to be seen to be requiring a change before contradicting the manufacturers rating.

[PADDLES]

talk to a mrd approved vehicle modifier, one that i know of from my rally days is kcf rallysport at kippa ring (redcliffe). keithy fackrell is very much in the know when it comes to mrd approved modifications and will be able to tell ya what is possible.

[ShaneJ]

talk to a mrd approved vehicle modifier, one that i know of from my rally days is kcf rallysport at kippa ring (redcliffe). keithy fackrell is very much in the know when it comes to mrd approved modifications and will be able to tell ya what is possible.

Yep I'll also reccomend Keith. Hes at 54 High St Kippa Ring, pop in and see him. Tell him Shane sent ya ;)

[Fat Chilli]

Paddles & ShaneJ, thanks for the referenced info, I give him a call.

peterreb -

If weight was the issue, then that doesn't make sense as a stock Wrangler is 30kg heavier than a RAV4, they weigh 1580kg and a RAV4 is 1540kg :-?.

Cheers

[Alex9797]

Hey FC,

mate sometimes it makes no sense at all. My wife has a Toyota Kluger that weighs in at the same weight as a Commodore. However the Commodore can tow 2000 kgs with a factory change to the rear shocks and an upgraded tow bar. The Kluger is only permitted to tow 1500 kgs.

I spoke to GM and Toyota and the story I got was that enough people hassled GM about the capacity that they lifted the rating. I guess a lot more Commodores are sold in oz than Klugers.

I would much rather be towing the boat (1800 kgs) with the kluger than the commodore especialy on a slippery ramp.

cheers


Alex

[Gbanger]

xtrail im getting has 4x ventilated discs and can tow 2 tonne

[Fat Chilli]

Gbanger - It also has no real ground clearance, IFS (weak), and no true low range for serious off roading, but I'll give the tow capacity (fair enough :-X) and their a nice looking car, but their an SUV not a 4x4. Different horses for different courses.

I use the J(h)eep for 4 wheeling regulary (well lately I have been fishing too much ::)), and I am the navigator for a team that competes in off road races (free sponsors plug - Staun 4x4 Products, Off Road World, Bursons Auto Parts, Currie Enterprises USA). So I won't be giving it up in a hurry. Not after spending at least 25k in mods and accessories.

It just pi$$es me off, that its capacity is so low and boats are so heavy. Even had a boat dealer tell me today not to worry about it too much, he said '100 or 200kgs over won't worry the law too much, they don't check.' Yeah right! What about insurance companies after an accident.

Has anyone on here ever encountered any issues (law, insurance companies etc.) for towing a boat over their vehicles tow capacity.

Cheers

[Cloud_9]

here's the thing thatthe manufacturers dont tell you now.
the tow capasity isn't related to the wieght of the vehical that much anymore.
it all about the KW out put of the engine and its ability ti tow the weight.
i have a rodeo 2004 and there are 2 tow capasities. 1 for no brakes and 1 for brakes.
I have 750 tow with no brakes and 2000 with brakes.
and thats for a manual vehical.
the auto version has a higher tow capasity.
the reason given to me was for a manufacturer's point of view.
the auto is always in the RIGHT gear for the given time.
they the makers dont want warranty claims for the dumb ass trying to tow an over wieght trailer in say 5th gear and stuff the gear box and cry warranty.
the 900 kg tow of your Wranggler should be higher for a braked trailer.
there is always 2 weights listed.
have a better look.

Cheers Cloud 9

[flatstrap]

I hope this interests you guys re towing capacity. I went through a loat of C*rap with NSW Police for years about towing capacity for any vehicle. Basically, NSW have until recently stated that you cannot tow anything heavier than the tow vehicle. Then there was a move nationally for Uniform Road Rules (UNR) to clarify what was legal. It was decided that the towing capacity was settled in two ways: a) The weight of the tow vehicle (as before) OR b) The weight the car maker recommends.
I was hassled by the Highway Patrol NSW for towing a 7m Cat behind the Land Rover Discovery. I tried to explain that (B) was now operative, but it was apparent that at the enforcement level, the new laws were not being implemented.

Brilliant Idea! I rang the Commander of the Police Enforcement of Tweed/Byron Area to verify the new law.

He first said: No, you can't tow anything heavier than your unladen vehicle. I mentioned The UNR. He then said, No, the UNR was NOT applied in all cases nationally. In other words, NSW adopts some new laws but not others. Then I said, read to me your manual that states that. So, thankfully he read it to me over the phone.

He read:...Blah Blah, not heavier than tow vehicle OR 'B" what the manufacturer recommends. You're right, you can tow something heavier than the tow vehicle. Learn something everyday. This is the commander Northern Division that instructs Highway Patrol Officers.

Result: He said (Thank you Commander) "I will fax you on our letterhead, the relevant law. Carry this with your vehicle manual at all times and you will have no further trouble!"

The Land Rover Discovery can legally tow 3500kg braked trailer on the road.
Breakaway system applies here, plus hydraulic system with in-car controller. No surge mechanical brakes allowed.
Incidentally, it is still legal to install electric drum brakes on boat trailers. These systems are meant for caravans. They last at most for six months. Just not made for dunking in salt water.

I hope this is informative....flatstrap

[GBC]

Extend the chassis, add another axle and do a 6X6 conversion. About the only way I've heard of upgrading load/tow capacity in QLD. The hardest part will be finding some old overlander stickers to replace the wrangler ones. 8-) 8-)
Should help your COG in those hill climbs too - jeez I crack myself up.

Disk brakes aren't going to help anyone's cause when towing big weights - Bias valves are there for a reason - drums are strong.

A lot of tow capacities (toyota especially) - are set by price point - not ability. "I only have a kluger but I want to tow a real boat" - "May I direct you to the Landcruiser section of the salesroom sir?".........$$$

Send pics of the 6X6 conversion - PLEASE!!!
C.J.

[Fat Chilli]

Cloud_9 - 'Had a better look' and its still 900kg for the braked tow capacity, hence the reason for this thread #::). Pretty much all vehices (cars/4x4's) these days have a 750kg unbraked tow limited.

Flatstrap - Don't ya love it when your right, especially when it involves the law #8-). Apart from the manufacturers recommended maximum rating (900kg), I was always of the understanding (rule of thumb) that the tow vehicle could tow 1.5 x the Kerb weight of the tow vehicle? Even 'Webster' states this in his boating magazines.

So as I read this UNR, 'not heavier than tow vehicle OR 'B" what the manufacturer recommends.' This is great as it implies that because the J(h)eep weighs in at 1580kg that I can tow 1580kg, which solves my tow capacity issue totally.
However, from an insurance perspective, which has the greater emphasis put on it, the manufacturers rating or the UNR, 'not heavier than tow vehicle'? May have to look into this for my situation.

Flatstrap would you be able to email me acopy of your letter?
Excellent information for me to look into. Thanks.

[Fat Chilli]

GBC - Your spot on reference drum brakes, I also took your advise and ripped into gear early this morning...whipped this up what do you reckon. #;D ;) It was only my first attempt.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/ausjeep/tj6_1sml.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/ausjeep/tj6_2sml.jpg

Just need to spray it red now and ship it over from the US. :P

[GBC]

Portals and all !!! I'm impressed - is that thing hydrostatic drive?

GBC is oficially all barred up :-X :-X

I'd like to see that at LCMP this week-end.

C.J.

[Fat Chilli]

GBC - What team are you with at LC Park this weekend? I am usually there (Tough Tracks comp), navigating for Team Staun, white TJ (Aaron) in Modified (Challenge Class). I won't be there this weekend though, the boss just got out of hospital :-[. I don't know anything about the 6x6 Wrangler, except that its very cool 8-).
It probably only has a 900kg tow capacity though ;D.

Cheers

FC

[GBC]

G'day chilli,

Not competing - we wanted too, but all our vehicles are in between classes as usual.

Will look out for the white T.J. but, and say G'day.

Tough tracks seems to be either full on (roll cages etc), or shopping carts (no lockers?), We all have daily drivers(set up for touring) which are locked and slightly modded- read:legal, but by no means BEASTS, although stui's ute (gq - not legal) may get a roll cage soon if we can talk him into it......
It hasn't been finished long, so I think he'll have a crawl around this week-end and have a bit of a compare after the modded guys have finished with the course.
My only claim to fame in racing is beating Alben in a can race once when the hiil climbs got called off due to rain and evryone got smashed and did flat track instead. :P :P

Good luck with the better half this week-end - might catch up on another one.

C.J.

[Fat Chilli]

GBC - Its not all bad staying home this weekend, at least I can go to the boat show #:). Here's a link to USA6x6 (no details though) http://www.usa6x6.com/

Back to the topic:

I searched the QLD DOT website and their safe towing guide is different to the UNR, it states that the load must not exceed the manufacturers specifications. Unless it is not specified, then 1.5 x the weight of the vehicle applies.
Just doesn't make sense, typical of the QLD government.

Any lawyers out there that want to cause change for the greater good of fishing. #;D

[flatstrap]

Hi Fat_Chili,
The way I understood it is this..
If there is NO designated towing capacity by the manufacturer, the rule to apply is (a) Not exceeding the unladen weight of the towing vehicle or:
If there IS a designated towing capacity by the manufacturer then this is the LIMIT of what you may tow. This may be MORE or LESS than the weight of your tow vehicle.
Over 2 tonnes, breakaway systems must be fitted also... over 4tonnes more rules apply...

flatstrap