2 or 4 stroke, maybe split cycle

[blaze]

Hi all
we all talk about 2 and 4 stroke outboard motors but what about the technoligy in this link. Its been about for a lot of years in varieus forms.
Have a read of the link, plenty more links found by googling SPLIT CYCLE ENGINES. Let us know your thoughts on how you think this may go as an outboard. Maybe manufactures of outboards need to think outside the square.
http://www.splitcycle.com.au/brochure/brochure.html
cheers
blaze

[flatstrap]

Whatever happened to the Sarich Orbital engine from WA? The same sort of efficiencies were being trumpeted around way back in the 70's. This engine was the size of a football and would produce a gazillion horsepower and use 33 cents of petrol. As time went on and accepting millions from individuals and corporations (BHP), nothing! It was always the same headlines, major engine manufacturers are about to sign up and produce this remarkable engine, blah blah. Then suddenly, Sarich is no longer into engines but instead he's concentrating on a 2-stroke induction technology! Then again another backflip, he's signed up with the major outboard manufacturers to produce Orbital Outboard engines. Testing to begin any day now. That was about 15 years ago.

Does anybody know?

Do major manufacturers that have millions invested in current technology get together and kill a good idea? Just wondering....flatstrap

[lippa]

light weight plus fuel effeinct, there saying up to 300% WOW, bring it on!!!

lippa

[ahoj]

we all need a strong PERPETUM MOBILE----Saric didn't make one To produce energy one also has to supply energy into it provided the energy that propels the final one is cheaper then the output one-- So long as we have this differenciation then we will have power-- once it equalises then we will stop.. once it goes above we go bust... amen

Ahoj

[rivermanau]

quote from Sydney Morning herald
"The company got off to a booming start in the 1980s after Ralph Sarich won ABC Television's inventor of the year award with his orbital engine back in the 1970s.

The public was excited, an altruistic BHP took a 25 per stake and the future looked bright, except that the engine was not viable and was quickly dumped.


Fortunately, Orbital kept the unique pneumatic fuel injection system, which is the company's principal product today. But, while there were lots of tyre-kickers, the company never landed the big contract for mass production.

By 1992, Mr Sarich lost interest, resigned as chairman and managing director and started selling his shares for more than $3 each. He realised tens of millions of dollars and did what any rational investor would do: he bought property in Perth's central business district. The last BRW Rich List estimated his worth at $770 million.

BHP saw the light some years after, and finally unloaded its stake in 1998 and 1999 at prices below $1.

Now Orbital sells injection systems for outboard motors and scooters and Mr Cook says soaring oil prices and stricter emission rules are bringing the future closer by the day.

[nevd]

Whatever happened to the Sarich Orbital engine from WA? The same sort of efficiencies were being trumpeted around way back in the 70's. This engine was the size of a football and would produce a gazillion horsepower and use 33 cents of petrol. As time went on and accepting millions from individuals and corporations (BHP), nothing! It was always the same headlines, major engine manufacturers are about to sign up and produce this remarkable engine, blah blah. Then suddenly, Sarich is no longer into engines but instead he's concentrating on a 2-stroke induction technology! Then again another backflip, he's signed up with the major outboard manufacturers to produce Orbital Outboard engines. Testing to begin any day now. That was about 15 years ago.

Does anybody know?

Do major manufacturers that have millions invested in current technology get together and kill a good idea? Just wondering....flatstrap

I was sidetraked while producing this reply so the post above came in before I posted.

It is a very long and interesting story, but a summary is the engine had problems meeting pollution laws being introduced at the time so direct injection was developed and it was then found that the injection technology could be used very effectively on 2 strokes - most of them in outboards. Orbital sold this technology to many companies including OMC Tohatsu and Mercury. It now forms the basis of Mercury Optimax and Tohatsu TLDI. It appears likely to be used in Chinese and Indian bikes and is now used in some European scooters and bikes.

If you need more info, go to the Orbital Engine Compay website. It is listed on the ASX and current market capitalisation is $40.3 Million so it would be a very cheap takeover for any large Auto or Engine manufacturer. Shares traded today at 9.8cents compared with Sarich's sales prices quoted in the earlier post.

[gif]

As we read above the Orbital engine did not go so well, but the fuel injection system did.

From memory it goes like this:

There is and electromagnet driven piston that pumps in fuel at very fine levels – which gives better burning. It makes a hiuge improvement to 2 strokes which traditionally eject a lot of unburnt fuel ( wastage and the emissions are high)


There was a similar system invented by a German called Ficht which was on the Evinrude Ficht engine.

The Orbital system is now on the ETEC. ( I think)

There are several Direct Injection 2 strokes - Yamaha HDPI, Tohatsu TLDI , ETEC, and Optimax.

These use one or another of these systems.

I have not heard of them being uised other than in outboards? Anyone heard of Direct Injection on…. Motor bikes ??


Gary

[PADDLES]

nah, not on bikes yet. there are obviously injected 4s bikes but no injected 2s that i know of. going four stroke seems to be flavour of the month for bikes. i wonder if the weight and size of the injection gear required for 2s injection doesn't make it suitable for use on bikes. it's a good point though because outboard development seems to be in front of motorcycle development.

[TonyM]

I was the first investor in SCT (Split Cycle) after the intial director and the inventor, long before the first prototype ever fired a spark. This is potentially a viable solution to the oil pricing issue and given a decent chance could possibly have been in mass production a long time ago >:(

I agree with the comment from the current director that lack of focus and mismanagement was part of the reason for the failure initially, however greed from several of the larger investors and impatience perhaps played a larger part :-? (thanks to them I lost my entire investment) :(

From memory it was around the 2nd or 3rd protoype that an SCT engine was trialled in a motorbike ;) I've got boxes of documents from SCT buried in the garage, must drag em out and have a browse next time I'm cleaning the garage

[TonyM]

Just had a better look at the new SCT website, thanks for reminding me of this Blaze - I had long forgotten SCT due to the bad vibes associated with losing ca$h #;D

It's great to see the technology has been thrown out into the public domain now - for all our sakes it would be fantastic to have a viable alternative, even if the original idea came from a Kiwi, and it'll probably be built in China with the Americans claiming ownership of the IP and grabbing all the cash #;D

hmmm I think I'm starting to get old and pessimistic #::) (at least not as optimistic as i was when I took out a loan 20 years ago to pay for share certificate number 3 in the exciting new Split Cycle idea) :D

[akman1]

I replied toa post ages ago about the sarich motor,cant remember what it was about,the sct page is very interesting.
Another interesting topic is the permadrive/tech system,designed in Ballina? that was listed on the sharemarket,supposed to be used in the US military vehicles and was going to save them sheetloads of money,havent heard any more about them!!

[blaze]

the sarich was the motor Sir racing jack was on the board of, wasnt it ?
I had all the guff and was going to buy shares but never did.
Interesting thoughts. Some times when I look at things like this I think that I must be the only one looking.
cheers
blaze

[DaveSue_Fishos_Two]

And what ever happened to the 'Pritchard' motor vehicle that Queenslanders gave hundreds of thousands of dollars to in the 70's? Disappeared, gone, finished. Why? Maybe we would need to see the cheque butts of an oil company to get that answer.

Dave

[TonyM]

the sarich was the motor Sir racing jack was on the board of, wasnt it ?
I had all the guff and was going to buy shares but never did.
Interesting thoughts. Some times when I look at things like this I think that I must be the only one looking.
cheers
blaze

Split Cycle is the one Sir Jack was on the board of, I believe he also got burnt by it.