EPIRB 121.5 or 406mhz

[Borminator]

Just wondering what the general consensus is on EPIRBs as far as buying a 121.5mhz or a new 406mhz model. I have been told that the existing 121.5mhz frequency is due to be fazed out in 2009 and I need a new EPIRB now. So do I buy a $169 121.5mhz and throw it out in 2009 ( and then have to bury a 406mhz anyway) or do I invest in a $549 406mhz model now (one manufacturer is offering a free battery replacement at 5 years giving a free 10 year run).

I know that the accuracy of the new frequency is much greater which is of course very important but will the price of the new models drop heaps over the next couple of years?? :-/

[seatime]

Hi Blue Dog

Get the 406Mhz or even step up to a GPIRB that is interfaced with your GPS.
No doubt the 121.5 models will get cheaper as 2009 approaches, but why buy a unit with a 5 yr battery that's fazed out in 2.5 yrs. Detection time is greatly reduced with the 406 models.

rgds

correction: sorry I see you asked about prices of new units dropping.
The 406's may get cheaper too, tho what price is safety. cheers

[capt]

The new EPIRB'S have a far greater range , world wide I believe , and can be pin pointed by people other than just in Canberra..... anyway what's $ 55.00 per year when you own a boat !!! JIMMY

[SunnyCoastMark]

The new EPIRB'S have a far greater range , world wide I believe , and can be pin pointed by people other than just in Canberra..... anyway what's $ 55.00 per year when you own a boat !!! JIMMY

Shame they don't let you pay for it like that though! ;D

Mark

[Spaniard_King]

Blue Dog,

I would say it depends on your probable useage, Basically you need to assess what the risk factor is for your kind of boating. For me a 121.5 is sufficient ATM for my needs and I hope I neva have to use it :-[

I boat in fairly frequented areas so I am confident my EPIRB would be noticed and I maintain good boating protocal ie log in, radio contact, learn to read the weather and no your limits.

cheers

Garry

[marlinqld]

I am with Spaniard_KIng, for my current use a 121.5/243 is sufficient.

And by the time I need the 406, they are bound to be somewhat cheaper than they are now.

i have not seen this GPIRb mentioned, so i must look into that, but assume it to be markedly dearer?

[seatime]

Hi guys

I'm not sure what you mean by a 121.5 MHz EPIRB being sufficient. They are sufficient to comply with minimum requirements, but are they sufficient for best practice. 406MHz isn't new, it's been around for donkeys, 121.5/243 MHz frequencies are being fazed out for a reason.
You may have to wait 2 hrs for a sat to pass, and if you're not detected you'll wait another 2 hrs and so on.
With the 406 MHz EPIRB you're still in view of the COSPAS SAR sats same as the 121.5 MHz units, but you're also in view of Inmarsat geostationary sats, which can detect in real time, longest about 5 mins.

I know which I'd prefer, 5 minutes sounds better than up to 2 hours approx. There are other advantages with the frequency used, and your vessel details can be recorded with the SAR agencies.
GPIRBs will also transmit your lat/long, which is fed from your GPS.

If I have any of that info wrong I'm sure someone will set me straight.

rgds

[Spaniard_King]

OK OK I give in ::) There best practise for my wallet :o # ;D ;D ;D

I bet there aint too many out there with a 406 :-*

Garry

[seatime]

OK OK I give in ::) There best practise for my wallet :o # ;D ;D ;D

I bet there aint too many out there with a 406 :-*

Garry

:-* ?

[seatime]

Here's some more info on the 406 MHz units.
http://beacons.amsa.gov.au
http://www.safeboating.org.au
IMO If you already have a 121.5/243, keep it, but if you're looking to buy an EPIRB then seriously consider the 406 MHz.

it's all good ;)

[ken4159]

"assess what the risk factor is for your kind of boating"



Garry, Can you tread water for 2 hours?. not me, put a 406 on board as soon as they came out.

Ken

[Spaniard_King]

"assess what the risk factor is for your kind of boating"



Garry, Can you tread water for 2 hours?. not me, put a 406 on board as soon as they came out.

Ken


Exactly that Goanna, if your just buying an Epirb because you have to comply and only go a short distance offshore, why spend the big $$

Garry

[cliffo]

I just bought a 406. I don't go huge distances offshore but I won't compromise on the safety of my family, crew or myself. $550 is small change compared to the lives of loved ones.
My 2 cents

Cliffo

[gropeher]

Ah Goanna,

been along time quiet there buddy, then you poke your head out #with a vengance!!!


Ryan..

[Braddles]

In my humble opinion, I think the 121.5 mhz technology is very adequate, unless your a solo sailor planning on sailing / cruising days at sea or similar. Much like any technological advancement, there will always be bigger and better. I think at the moment there is a lot of manipulative marketing to the vunerable and, to tug at the heart strings and tell us that $600 is justifed and accurate and the best for our chances of rescue, when really the system we have is very adequate and most efficent. Yes it is being phased out, but even then, the the 2009 date is not firm...

The feature of a 406 is that you can register your boat name and your personal contact details with the specific EPIRB, so when activated = it identifies you specifically. I am not sure that is vital when your a demsel in distress = but it will certainly make people more accountable for false activations.

Another issue is - I think people dont realise that 121.5 freq is also listened to by commercial aircraft and ATC, The Australian Navy and Airforce, Customs planes and vessels and commercial shipping.

For example... I fly on Rescue 500 (QLD Rescue Helicopter) a bit with my work and recently the crew were telling me about a report of an epirb activated "out off redcliffe". Initially you think a boat in distress. In less than 50mins the EPIRB was located to be in specific boat yard (terra frima). Not bad.... And that freq was registered by shipping traffic and registered with BNE airport ATC from commercial air traffic and the EPRIB found within the hour..

In summary - I think if you can get a new 121mhz EPRIB with a decent expiration time that meets the Aust Standards for under 200 dollars - you can't go wrong, and when the technology is phased out - your 406's will most certainly be half the cost.

Unless your planning a trip to South Africa... I think your family will be more than safe...

From someone who saves lives.

[Spaniard_King]

In my humble opinion, I think the 121.5 mhz technology is very adequate, unless your a solo sailor planning on sailing / cruising days at sea or similar. #Much like any technological advancement, there will always be bigger and better. I think at the moment there is a lot of manipulative marketing to the vunerable and, to tug at the heart strings and tell us that $600 is justifed and accurate and the best for our chances of rescue, when really the system we have is very adequate and most efficent. Yes it is being phased out, but even then, the the 2009 date is not firm...

The feature of a 406 is that you can register your boat name and your personal contact details with the specific EPIRB, so when activated #= it identifies you specifically. I am not sure that is vital when your a demsel in distress = but it will certainly make people more accountable for false activations.

Another issue is - I think people dont realise that 121.5 freq is also listened to by commercial aircraft and ATC, The Australian Navy and Airforce, Customs planes and vessels and commercial shipping.

For example... # I fly on Rescue 500 (QLD Rescue Helicopter) a bit with my work and recently the crew were telling me about a report of an epirb activated "out off redcliffe". # Initially you think a boat in distress. In less than 50mins the EPIRB was located to be in specific boat yard (terra frima). # Not bad.... #And that freq was registered by shipping traffic and registered with BNE airport ATC from commercial air traffic and the EPRIB found within the hour..

In summary - I think if you can get a new 121mhz EPRIB with a decent expiration time that meets the Aust Standards for under 200 dollars - you can't go wrong, and when the technology is phased out - your 406's will most certainly be half the cost. #

Unless your planning a trip to South Africa... I think your family will be more than safe... # #

From someone who saves lives.


Thank You Braddles, I wasnt sure but I thought it was more than sattlights that moinitored 121.5

cheers

Garry

[seatime]

In my humble opinion, I think the 121.5 mhz technology is very adequate, unless your a solo sailor planning on sailing / cruising days at sea or similar. #Much like any technological advancement, there will always be bigger and better. I think at the moment there is a lot of manipulative marketing to the vunerable and, to tug at the heart strings and tell us that $600 is justifed and accurate and the best for our chances of rescue, when really the system we have is very adequate and most efficent. Yes it is being phased out, but even then, the the 2009 date is not firm...

Interesting statements braddles, analogue to digital will make it more accurate. It's hardly efficient as 97% of recieved distresses on 121.5 are false. 1st February 2009 sounds firm to me.

The feature of a 406 is that you can register your boat name and your personal contact details with the specific EPIRB, so when activated #= it identifies you specifically. I am not sure that is vital when your a demsel in distress = but it will certainly make people more accountable for false activations.

The 406s work on real-time detection with geo-stationary sats, that's more of a feature than registering your details. How can they make people more accountable for false activations, it's only a simple call to the authorities, and there is no fine. With the majority of 121.5 false activations, the user is unaware the beacon has been activated as they can be activated by other elec equipment.

Another issue is - I think people dont realise that 121.5 freq is also listened to by commercial aircraft and ATC, The Australian Navy and Airforce, Customs planes and vessels and commercial shipping.

Commercial shipping does not listen to 121.5 (commercial shipping is my occupation) 121.5 distresses are relayed thru Inmarsat services and that service ceases in Dec '06, military listens on 243, and they rarely hear distresses. 121.5 is usually used for homing of searchers.

For example... # I fly on Rescue 500 (QLD Rescue Helicopter) a bit with my work and recently the crew were telling me about a report of an epirb activated "out off redcliffe". # Initially you think a boat in distress. In less than 50mins the EPIRB was located to be in specific boat yard (terra frima). # Not bad.... #And that freq was registered by shipping traffic and registered with BNE airport ATC from commercial air traffic and the EPRIB found within the hour..

'within the hour,' 406 can be real-time, and it's digital, so no losses to atmospherics as opposed to 121.5.

In summary - I think if you can get a new 121mhz EPRIB with a decent expiration time that meets the Aust Standards for under 200 dollars - you can't go wrong, and when the technology is phased out - your 406's will most certainly be half the cost.

The decent expiration date will be 01/02/09, and 406s won't be half the price.

Unless your planning a trip to South Africa... I think your family will be more than safe...

I think you need to research EPIRBs a bit more. # #

From someone who saves lives.

From some who has used the equipment, co-ordinated search patterns and has saved lives on the water. :)

[Braddles]

Like I said mister "In my humble opinion". Everyone is entitled to an opinion - thats why this is called a forum. I dont pretend to know everything about EPIRBS - #very little in the context of what I am sure there is to know.. Sure anyone is greatful to correction or constructive criticism, but ripping apart someone elses post like that with criticism and inuendo is only destructive and shows your arrogance.

My list of who monitors the 121.5 #(IN ADDITION TO COSPAS/SARSAT #which relay to LUTs) was by no means exhaustive. Once a single is relayed to a LUT and a search is launched - ALL the parties I mentioned will / should / can listen to 121.5. #This includes commerical shipping! (Do a search on the internet - many a sailor has been found by an oil tanker for example).

If you read what I said as it is written, I acknowledged that currently there is no accountability with the 121mhz and thus by phasing in 406 with details registered, false alarms will be identifiable to a registered vessel / company, thus potentially facilitating some degree of penalty for misuse, or ability to call the vessel to establish the validity of the distress signal.

I only know what I know from working with the people who search, resuce and locate these things, and I maintain that an ID and location in under an hour is mre then acceptable - its dam impressive! A 406mhz in real time is negligable when considering the vacinity most small pleasure craft / fishing vessels operate in - it takes up to 30 mins to mobilise crew, preflight checks, plan and #power up a chopper sometimes - and then there is the ideology that (again I am sure you will correct me) much of the time when the need arises to active an EPIRB the environmental conditions are far from perfect which may well slow a rescue, again making the "real time" bennifit a bit of a sales pitch. I still believe marketing hype regarding 406 mhz is 90% sales and 10% real safety.

As for the dates - I dont think anyone can be sure of the date mate. I remember the same happened with analogue mobile service, the phase out date was etended twice. The digital V's Analogue TV's -the date keeps changing there - oh and by 2000, no child shall live in poverty. #

Over it...

Brad.

[ShaneJ]

Umm, there is a lot of misinformation in this thread!

Digitial is not a selling point!
A digitial signal offers less reliability than an analogue signal!
"Atmospherics losses" has more effect on digital signals than on analogue signals.
With a digital signal you have to receive the full transmission in order for the data packets to be "decoded".
Examples!? When the digital mobile phone system came alive and the analogue mobile phone system was shutdown. Much more coverage with the old analogue system!?
Analogue TV with a very poor signal you can still make out the picture. Digital TV with that same poor signal you wont receive any picture, and if you do it will be with lots of pauses and blocks.

From your friendly RF Communications Tech.

[seatime]

http://beacons.amsa.gov.au
http://beacons.amsa.gov.au/What_is/406_vs_121.asp

[ShaneJ]

http://beacons.amsa.gov.au
http://beacons.amsa.gov.au/What_is/406_vs_121.asp
The .gov.au assures you that its all bullcrap!

[mcgilld]

G'day Blue Dog.
Interesting thread you've started.
I have the same dilemma so I thought I'd work out a couple of figures.

I'll also walk to China if the price of the 406 goes down when they're the only choice on the market - Where do these rumours come from??

121:
pay $170 till Feb 09, then approx $500 for a 406 for 5 years, then approx $150 (i think the 150 here is conservative) for battery change for 5 more years.
= $820 for 12.5 years

406 with free battery change:
= $510 for 10 yrs

I could keep going with the figures, but i'm pretty sure you'll stay in front with the 406 - my mind's made up anyway.
Dave

PS when's this bloody wind going to stop!?

[Borminator]

Thanks to everyone for giving their thoughts. There were some valid points raised on both sides of the debate.

Mcgilld - when it comes down to dollars and cents your figures make sense.

As for the wind, it will stop the day I go back to work, just about always does. Was strong enough to blow the spots off a dog yesterday. To make it worse I have a new boat (see 'Trailcraft Rig' post) and can't go out and play. :'(

[StevenM]

[
From some who has used the equipment, co-ordinated search patterns and has saved lives on the water. :)


Sounds like you mind is made up. And you are happy.

Cheers

Steven

[SatNav]

1. "the 2009 date is not firm... " Feb 2009 is very firm and 121.5 satellite detection will not operate past this time. Some of the Russian 121.5 satellite detection capability has already been shutdown.

2. In this country the authorities will almost certainly make 121.5/243 obsolete even prior to the official termination of Cospas/Sarsat satellite 121.5 detection. There has been mention of sometime in 2008 being most appropriate?

3. The Redcliffe example is a perfect example of how outdated 121.5 technology wastes rescue services time and money due to enormous number of false alerts, which is one of the primary reasons the system is being terminated in favour of 406. If that had been a 406 a simple phone call would have saved 50 minutes of helicopter time and saved people wasting their time

4. 121.5/243's were never intended or designed for detection by satellite.

[ken4159]

Satnav

[ken4159]

SatNav,way to go get on board guys