Channel Markers.

[Poseidon]

Is it just me or do others who are unfamiliar with a new area get confused sometimes by the direction of your travel in respect to the red and green markers within channels? Sure it’s easy enough when you are 100% sure that you heading into or out of port but when you are in an area, like around Jumpinpin or Pumiestone Passage, are you heading in or out, is it left or right of the colour. This uncertainty especially when you have channels joining another channel which further complicates the passage as you scratch your head to work out which path to take. And for those whose long distant site is not the best, coupled with the glare from the water, the red and green means little until you are nearly on top of them as there are times when they are along distant apart.

Wouldn’t it have just been easier to use bright coloured markers in the shape of arrows pointing left and right to show the direction to pass? The shape of the arrow could then be applicable regardless of your direction of travel, clear from further away (shape would stand out) and where there is any confusion then 2 arrows could be placed across from each other clearly showing to pass through the middle.

I understand that these red and green markers have an international acceptance and most people will probably comment that they have no issues with the red and green so, is it just a matter of familiar surroundings or are you able to visit any new location and be 100% sure of your direction of travel.

For the record, if I am unsure of direction I will whip open the trusty beacon to beacon and check however it hit my yesterday that arrow shapes would make the journey a lot easier.

Any comments, especially by those who like me scratch their heads from time to time or from anyone who may have tips as to how they get along would be appreciated.

Regards,

Cameron.

[seatime]

G'day Cam

Just to be sure carry a paper chart, they have the arrows showing the direction of buoyage. Hydrographic charts, Qld Transport and Admiralty charts have the little arrows.
rgds

[snakecatcher]

Perhaps this might be the place to get an answer to a question that has crossed my mind a few times when boating in the Pumistone Passage. If you launch your boat at the Caloundra end and travel upstream (away from the sea) towards, say, Donnybrook do you reach a point in the middle of the passage where the red and green channel markers switch sides as you will then be travelling downstream towards the sea and is this point marked with a sign?

Thanks

Mike

[seatime]

Looking on the chart the beacons in the Pumicestone Passage are red to port all the way from Caloundra to Bongaree. The passage is considered an open ended channel not 'upstrem'.
It's not only red to port when proceeding upstream, but also when entering a port. Around the Moreton Bay area Brisbane is the main port and so the direction of buoyage is towards Brisbane. The exceptions are the dead-end or upstream channels, e.g. creeks, boat harbours, rivers.

rgds

[ManyRivers]

The direction of the channel should change after a junction of two channels. Such a junction is marked with a yellow cross. Just watch out for a change in orientation after you pass by a cross.

The most confusing one that I have every seen was on the Shoalhaven River in southern NSW. There is a man made channel between the Shoalhaven and the Crookhaven Rivers. When the channel was first dug, the primary river was the Shoalhaven, so the bouyage was set so that progressing from the Shoal to Crookhaven was the upstream orientation. Over the years, the Shoalhaven bar closed over, so that the only way up the river was to enter the Crookhaven and then navigate upstream by going downstream through the channel. Certainly was like that back in the '80s when I was last there.

[seatime]

[quote author=ManyRivers link=1154212611/0#4 date=1154246505]The direction of the channel should change after a junction of two channels. Such a junction is marked with a yellow cross. Just watch out for a change in orientation after you pass by a cross.

Not sure what you mean there ManyRivers, the direction of a channel may change, though the direction of buoyage doesn't necessarily change. If both channels head towards the port, the beacons stay the same (red to port). If the channel heads away from the port, the beacons are green to port.
It's best to check the chart if uncertain.

Yellow Special Marks indicate a point of interest which includes channel junctions, but they don't indicate a change in direction of buoyage.
If there is any doubt as to the purpose of a Special Mark you encounter, your chart should be consulted.

I don't want to get into changing orientation after passing crosses, I was an altar boy! ;) ;D ;D

regards :)

[StevenM]

Cam

If we had arrows then prop manufacturers would go broke. ;D ;D

[timddo]

hmm, another thought is street signs.. wouldn't it be good if there is a sign that says, to rous channel turn left or the pin go straight. Beware shoal. Keep to the right of green beacon. or goldcoast turn right .

i like the idea of ifyou want to catch bream park here.

cheers

[Angla]

You could also start up traffic lights at say the intersection from Jacobs well, Gold coast and jumpin pin. Then you could put up red light cameras to catch all the gold coast millionaires as they tear up from the broadwater.

Angla

[mickstar001]

Agree with you Cam, does get terribly confusing, after a couple of trips (and/or hit a couple of sand bars ::)) you can normally get the hang of it though.

[fish2eat]

It's a pretty silly idea to use arrows as they cannot be seen other than in good light conditions, at least with green/red they can be indicated by lights at night. There is one exception I have seen - a marker just out from the entrance to Runaway Bay, where someone has put an arrow on it......maybe too many sportscruiser drivers are unable to understand ;D ;D ;D

[tshort]

Heading north you heading out of port, heading south is into port.

[Dignity]

gelsec, those black and yellow markers (often with a yellow cross) indicate a change in bouyage - always works for me - have always found the green which was on starboard becomes port and vice versa

sam

[seatime]

http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/qt/msq.nsf/index/iala_special
http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/qt/msq.nsf/index/iala_lateral

Dignity, I can't find anywhere it says that is the purpose of Special Marks.
There doesn't appear to be any navigation marks that indicate a change in buoyage. The buoyage changes on the 'towards' and 'away from port', and 'upstream or downstream' criteria.

There are lots of places where entering a new channel you'll be heading back where you came from, or when leaving port you'll enter an 'upstream' channel. In these cases the red and green beacons change sides because you are now heading in a different direction, not because you passed a Special Mark. The SM indicates there is a navigable channel there, not that the buoyage changes. There are plenty of places where the buoyage doesn't change when entering a new channel and after passing a SM, because the two channels head in the same direction i.e. upstream or into port.

Hope that's not more confusing, rgds. :)

[Sean]

I have always found that bouyage on the upstream port side to be somewhat confusing compared to the bouyage on the downstream port side. the starbord markers sometimes switch between port and starbord depending on weather you are travelling up or down stream and weather or not the channels are crossing paths with cardinal markers. The bouyage indicating the change in channels can sometimes be missinterpereted as a cardinal marker and if you travel to the port side of these with the channel on the starboard side, you will regret not having the adequete knowlege of the port and starboard markers!!! OK ########, you must be a real dumb ass not to figure that out!! ;D ;D No offence, all tongue in cheek!!

[seatime]

Trips into waters unknown or channels unknown should be planned ahead using a navigation chart. There shouldn't be too much confusion as the navigation information is contained on the chart.
The direction of buoyage arrows are on the chart if there is any confusion.
Beacon to Beacon does not have enough detail to be used as a navigation tool. A chart of the area should be carried.
Boaties should know in advance which beacons they will encounter and their meaning, and which side to pass.

It's a bit worrying that Special and Cardinal Marks are misinterpreted, the purpose and uses are very different. Some can be difficult to indentify at a distance, or they're covered in crap, but a check of the chart confirms which beacon it is and why it's there.

What about after dark, can you distinguish between the different beacons with white lights, Cardinals, Safe Water and Isolated Danger?

[Dignity]

gelsec - I was refering to these
those black and yellow markers

http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/qt/msq.nsf/index/iala_cardinal

sam

[Cheech]

Was not going to comment on this thread, but it does worry me that people may encounter problems and possibly dangerous situations following good intended but incorrect pieces of advice.

Some great advice in that you need to know in advance what you will encounter and what they mean. If you take anything at all from reading this thread, then take that piece of advice.

Port and Starboard markers have absolutely nothing to do with north and south. My understanding is that they are marked in accordance to the port you are entering. This could be from any direction depending on the port. That is why you get what appear to be pretty odd directional markers in places like the passage. Pretty sure that the lack of a dominant port in the area means that the passage is marked with Brisbane river as the port. You also get some of the beacons in the southern/middle bay that seem to be in the middle of nowhere that are set up for the same port. Once you know the port, you know where the channel is.

Without going through all the pin beacons, you will find the same thing. So with this general guide, you may find that the pin also starts to make sense.

I would suggest that everyone does a brushup on the same rules that new boaties have to know. You have to know your basic beacons.

Be safe out there.

Cheech

[tshort]

When your heading inland (west) along any creek/river arent you deemed to be heading into port no matter what port that is, if its just coincidence its not a bad coincidence to follow. If your heading out of a Creek/river and come across a yellow marker at the mouth and you head north your still going out of port, if you head south your going into port if you head east its still out of port. This is erelevent to the proximity of any port of which their are numerous on the eastern sea board.

[seatime]

As you say elprez it's just a coincidence. There are no buoyage rules for North, South, East or West. If the beacons are marked in any particular compass direction, it is another coincidence.

There is only one rule governing which direction the beacons are marked, that is where the designated PORT is. That's why an up-to-date chart of the area is required, so you know which direction the buoyage is, and where the PORT is.

Do not follow the N, S, E or W logic, because that's not how the buoyage system works.

It can get very confusing, that's the point of having a chart.

You will find that any dead-end channels, that is channels that just peter out are catergorised as into port also, and marked accordingly.

It's important that boaties have a sound understanding of how the buoyage system operates. It can get very expensive for repairs after running aground.

rgds

[tshort]

So if your heading from Brisbane to the ports of Mooloolaba, Bundaberg or gladstone there are markers along the way that indicate that you have now exited Brisbane and now entering Mooloolaba.

[seatime]

elprez, no, the port limits for each PORT are marked on the chart, sometimes with a Fairway buoy/beacon (safe water mark).

Brisbane NW Fairway is a safe water mark, Gladstone has a fairway buoy etc.

Mooloolaba is a PORT, because once you enter there is nowhere else to go, like Noosa, Currumbin, Tweed etc.

Otherwise when travelling around continents, like Australia, or between PORTS the direction of buoyage is clockwise.
Even though there aren't many red or green markers going from Happyrock to Bundy (mostly lighthouses), that's how the system works.

It is crucial to consult the relevant charts before setting out.

hope this helps, rgds.