Nightmare on my new boat!!!!

[Mad_Turk]

Hello Everybody,

Wish I could post some pictures of the fish I caught but instead I will be writing about the biggest rip off of my life...


Here is the story:

After looking around for about 2 months on the boat market. I decided to go for a haines signature 575 F and found one for sale in sidney.My brother went down to check the boat and talk to the owner. I have spoken to him on few occasions asking about the engine ,the boat etc... Than my brother went for a test drive and said that it was all OK!!!The owner said there was no problems with the boat or the engine so we decided to go ahead with the sale and bought a 1997 haines signature 575 F with the full kit for 30.000 Dollars... He was very helpful and even offered to drive the boat up to Brisbane and we would drive down from Townsville to pick it up,which we did last week... So far so good... Boat arrived in townsville and went for a test run, all ok...

Than as I was surfing the internet I found this topic about a haines signature!!!!!! Here it is:

Posted: 09 Dec 2005 06:13 Post subject: Dealer Nightmare

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I bought a 1997 haines signature 575F stern drive in April this year. The dealer carried out a 100hours service before I purchased it. The second time I used the boat it overheated. An automotive engine belt was used instead of a heavy duty marine belt (as specified in manuals) on the cooling system and it was rubbing on the front engine mount. Part of the 100hrs service schedule is inspection/tensioning of all drive belts. I was concerned about any damage from overheating and asked the dealer to go over the entire cooling system thoroughly while it was being repaired under warranty. These repairs took about 4 weeks. It is a Volvo Penta motor and required parts from Sweden (the parts only took a week or so to come in).

Three months later (and about the third time I had used the boat since the repairs), I lost power while running the boat. On inspection of the motor it was submerged in salt water! The thermostat had failed which created excess pressure and blew out a cooling water hose. This was the second incident with th wife and kids on the boat, so I intended on making a one way trip back to the dealer. They wouldn't refund it but agreed to repair it under warranty and then market it for me at no cost. I thought fair enough. 5 weeks later the boat was ready... and so was the bill for the repairs. I reminded them that I was told that it was being done under warranty and they said that the boat was out of warranty. The sales manager said at this stage that he didn't have time to deal with me as he had customers to look after and palmed me off to the service manager!! After heated discussions with the managing director of the dealership the repairs were covered under 'good faith' but I was told that they no longer wanted a relationship with me and told me to come and pick up the boat - they would not market it now, they wanted a clean break from me. I towed it home from Sutherland to the Central Coast to a dealer in Gosford.

When trying to sell it on consignment the motor would not start 2.5hours after I had picked it up from the dealer who repaired it! The Gosford mechanic thought that the head was cracked as the oil was full of water!!! I dragged it back to Sutherland and they have repaired it again. The head was sent out to engineers for assessment - perfect. They stripped down the motor, replaced gaskets... couldn't fault it. They said it was a mystery, appologised and took me for a test run (3 weeks later). The boat ran fine for the 5 minutes we tested it. I towed it home on the 7th December and showed it to a private buyer yesterday on the 8th December. And the motor did not start... eventually I got it running then we shut it down and inspected the oil - frothy and white... full of water!!!!!

They have had 4 attempts at fixing this rig since I bought it in April. It has spent 4 months in the dealer's workshop... a handful of times on the water and I'm stuck paying the interest on a loan for a boat I can't use, repair or sell!!! What do you do??? I'm looking forward to another battle on the phone as soon as the dealer opens today.

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Didint thinkmuch of it first and took my family to whitsundays for a family weekend,guess what the boat wouldnt start!!!


After careful investigations and few phone calls I have realised that this is the boat I bought...So i took it to volvo penta dealer in Townsville to get it checked. Engine wouldnt start he said and when they pulled out the spark plugs they were all rusted and they do believe there is water in the oil and the engine and told me they could fix it but couldnt guarantie it as it will take more water in the future and could break down anywhere for good.

So my options are

1-Spend another 10 .000 +++ on a new engine
2-Sue the guy who sold me the boat, since he lied to me and I found his post on the internet which is what you read above and told me that all was in good working order and I have witnesses to prove that is what he said...

What do I do now?

Is there such a thing as consumer rights when buying privately???This guy lying to me about the engine can I use this in a court room???

Any advice or idea will be great help... I saved for 2 years to buy a boat and I ended up here and now kicking my self for it....


Thx for reading...

[Hoges]

>:(
Real sorry to hear your tale of woe and hope all works out for the better.
My advice if you are sure this is the same boat is to seek proper legal advice from a solicitor.
Good luck!
:-X

[revs57]

Ohh man...worst nightmare...

Good luck as you sort it through

Cheers

Rhys

[cooky]

hmmm - interesting and not good. One of your issues will be how well priced the boat is/was - the argument might come back to value - eg. if other boats are selling for $10,000 more, then they may claim that you didn't get a bad deal. ridiculous I know, but who knows with the law??

interesting that you've found it on the web. - you'd have to prove that the post was / is from him (IP address, email, etc). If it is then you may have decent grounds for legal action.

There is usually a time period for action after a sale, but I believe it's only a few weeks - it's meant to give you time to check it out fully and ensure you haven't been misrepresented.

Good luck - I'm in Townsville too - keep us informed.

[DR]

i actually remember reading all that when it was happening.......

a bloke i know sold a boat a few years back. the outfit was 12 months old, it had an ex pro motor on it that worked perfectly, he never had any probs.
almost 2 years later the guy that bought it had a problem worth $2000. he took mate to court & won..in his ad he stated the boat was 12 mnths old, the buyer said he assumed the motor was only 12 months old as well. mate said you are a liar, i told you about the motor, that is why you bought a $25000 boat for $18000 & probably why you were back the same day with cash, because it was such a bargain & you did not want to miss it..
judge said, did not state in ad motor was older than 12 mnths, regardless of what was said.
cost the mate $2000 to repair this dishonest pr**ks motor..

you have it in writing it is a lemon & a witness that you were told it was fine,so i would imagine you have a pretty good chance of getting a result

[Mad_Turk]

Thx for that Cooky,

I did look for the prices and they do go for around 30.000 to 35.000 depending on what comes with the boat... I found another for the same price a day later I bought this one and the boat and the engine had 400 hours on it.... so basiclaly I didint get a bargain for what I paid considering a new engine will cost me well over 10.000... not that I can afford that anyways...The engine will never be fixed properly unless its stripped,head changed and they think blok might have a crack in it as well and with all the labour costs ( 75 an hour) it will still cost me a fortune to get it fixed...

Do you know any good lawyers in town???

Its only been 10 days since the boat is purchased...







hmmm - interesting and not good. # One of your issues will be how well priced the boat is/was - the argument might come back to value - eg. #if other boats are selling for $10,000 more, then they may claim that you didn't get a bad deal. #ridiculous I know, but who knows with the law??

interesting that you've found it on the web. #- you'd have to prove that the post was / is from him (IP address, email, etc). # If it is then you may have decent grounds for legal action. #

There is usually a time period for action after a sale, but I believe it's only a few weeks - it's meant to give you time to check it out fully and ensure you haven't been misrepresented.

Good luck - I'm in Townsville too - keep us informed.

[joeT]

See a solicitor. Sounds like fraud and/or misrepresentation depending on what claims he had made abou the boat.

Because the boat was purchased in Sydney, the transaction took place there and so if you were take it any further, you would need to commence proceedings in a NSW court.

Do up a little note of all the telephone conversations you can remember and the dates and approximate times, so you have a record of what has happened so far while its fresh in your memory. You'll need to put this information in a sworn affidavit if you end up taking it up in court.

The steps you should take are:
1) Letter of demand to the seller outlining the information you have and asking for a full refund for return of the boat to him (you may want your solicitor to write the letter).
2) If no satisfactory response from (1), lodge a claim in the magistrates court.

[Mad-One]

From dealings I once had , if you can prove the seller new about the problem then you have legal grounds to recover your money.
Hope all goes well for you and you come out on top.

Cheers Phil

[joeT]

hmmm - interesting and not good. # One of your issues will be how well priced the boat is/was - the argument might come back to value - eg. #if other boats are selling for $10,000 more, then they may claim that you didn't get a bad deal. #ridiculous I know, but who knows with the law??

interesting that you've found it on the web. #- you'd have to prove that the post was / is from him (IP address, email, etc). # If it is then you may have decent grounds for legal action. #

There is usually a time period for action after a sale, but I believe it's only a few weeks - it's meant to give you time to check it out fully and ensure you haven't been misrepresented.

Good luck - I'm in Townsville too - keep us informed.

Value is irrelevant, it is the misrepresentations that induced you to purchase the boat.

Limitation period is 12 years, but you want to do it asap while the evidence is fresh and you can locate the guy! I think Cooky is referring to time periods for 'coolling off' after a purchase, which only applies when buying from a dealer (and as far as I'm aware, only applies to cars).

You may also want to get some quotes for repairs so that you can outline the costs that you have suffered as a result of the seller's conduct.

[Skipsta]

There really are dishonest pricks around. I was ripped off by my mecahnic of 10 years with a lemon of a boat with a bad crack up the middle. He didn't even have it repaired, he just covered it up with Selleys All Clear. Point is I had a lemon of a boat with a good engine. I sold my boat on the Trading Post. But I declared IN LARGE WRITING that the hull was compromised and required repair. Even then I felt bad about selling it, and worried about people's safety who might take it. Point is I got $3,500 for boat and trailer, whereas if I had been unscrupulous I could have gotten twice that. Makes my blood bloody boil when I see people with no conscious whatsoever >:(

[snappa]

u missed my boat... it was for sale ... :)

i believe u are well and truely stuffed... :'(

he could be a member of the "MAFIA" ....

[familyman]

Look in trade a boat ,you can get a 350 or 307 marine chev motor for 3-4.5k$ if you want to take that route.Otherwise see your legal aid office and small claims court >:(
good luck
cheers jon

[Owen]

You may actually want to speak to a solicitor regarding warrranty laws.
There have been cases where the courts have made a manufacturer repair a vehicle that was well out of warranty because the problem had been brought to their attention (but not effectively repaired) within the warranty period.
Sounds a bit like both you and the previous owner have been screwed over.
It may be the case that you could work together to get it fixed properly.
I'm not a lwayer and this information is things I've read a long while back, so please don't take it as gospel

cheers,
Owen

[DaveSue_Fishos_Two]

You really need the advice of a solicitor MT. They will tell you EXACTLY what you can and can't do, and if this ends up in court and you win, you may also have costs awarded. Don't muck about with this. Get professional help now!

Cheers
Dave

[Mad_Turk]

Thanks a lot people,

You all gave me avery good idea about what needs to be done...

I think i will have to take him to the court,but I know he s been screwed as well,but of course I do not want to buy his problems, I do feel bad for him too...I think I will ring him first and tell him about the problems and I want my money back,if that dosent work ,than I will get a solicitor to write up a letter to him asking for the money back,if still nothings done I will go to magisteres court and lodge a complaint...

See what happens from there.

If I had a boat like this I would fix it before I sell it or tell the person I am selling to about the problem,I couldnt just sell the boat and hope for the best that this guy will fix the problem.. I couldnt sleep not because he might come after me one day but because of lying and not being true about selling your boat or misrepresenting your item for sale...

Anyway will keep you guys posted about what happens next,thx again for reading and writing...

[blaze]

I think this boat is now unsellable in australia.
best of luck, my sympathy to you and the pri owner who was also screwed
cheers
blaze

[Angla]

Mad_Turk

A sad read and I hope it will be fixed for you with a minimum of fuss

Angla

[joeT]

Definitely give the guy a call first and see if he's reasonable to sort it out. Perhaps you can reach a compromise of some sort (eg. he refund you $10k to get it fixed). If his response is no good, then letter of demand from a solicitor.

I know its hard to pick a solicitor. I'd start with someone local and after the first discussion you will get the idea of whether you want that person working for you. Don't always go the cheapest, because you definitely get what you pay for. Also check how long they've been working, their profiles are on www.qls.com.au, although years of experience don't necessarily make a good lawyer if all he does is conveyancing. Try to find someone who often deals with consumer disputes.

Good luck.

[catchy_fishy]

advice from afar - give him a call sure - but confirm the discussion in writing with him as a "file note / summary of the call" - if it gets bad you will need everything.

Give him a time to respond, all be it politely, but after that you must act - difficult I know to make that call; especially now that you've forked out good money and might be strapped to pay for a Solicitor - always with the threat that you could lose.

But remembr this is only a meeting with a solicitor not a full blown court case. Quite often when a "guilty party" in a civil case realises you are serious they will respond to the threat of legal action.

LAst piece of advice - go to experienced, well renowned (often expensive) solicitors. They are good for a reason - they fight and they win - if you're going all out you may as well go all out.

Best of luck.

Oh yes - try posting on Ausfish for a spare motor - maybe someone will lend you one for a while so you can use your boat :(

Mike

[INDULGENCE]

You dont say what model Volvo it is. If you get around to fixing the boat you may wish to look at the exhaust manifold. I had an AQ71 and over a period of 3 years found the baffle inside the exhaust manifold had a tiny hole that when hot permitted sea water to enter into the inlet manifold and subsquently into the cylinders.
My manifold was eventually was replaced with stainless steel special made by a guy on the GoldCoast. No further problems until the timing gear let go and the motor running at 4ooorpm put valves into the pistons.
I now have repowered with the 4.3 GXI and very happy.
I hope you get the compensation you deserve and get to use a good boat and reliable motor.
Give me an em if I can help with details on fixing the motor

Wally

[rough_shag]

Sorry to hear about your woes MT there are plenty of people out there who don't care a toss about your families safety and can easily sleep at night even if you all die!! as long as they've got your dollars of course.
My advice if you really are a mad turk is first of all keep your cool-I have Turkish blood and know how insanely angry you could get over this!.Don't b/s around with ringing anyone except the best lawyer you can find-pay their fees it'll be worth it in the end and sometimes just seeing the letterhead of a big legal firm can influence the outcome.Take a hard line approach and assume that no one is gunna do you any favours or take any responsibility for the problems.
Keep records of anything and absolutely everything to do with the boat no matter how small it may be and determine to have the law courts sort it out and don't deviate from this course of action.Start the ball rolling immediately time is of the essence.Unless you take positive action you will end up getting shafted over this!.
Assume that nobody is gunna do the right thing unless forced to do so and you won't be dissapointed.Go for the throat and never ever back down regardless of any offers etc unless they are seriously good offers of course.And you can also sue for your legal costs and damages relating to stress caused to you and your family-BUT GET THE BEST LAWYERS YOU CAN FIND AT ANY COST.
Been there done that and won big timemyself !! and in your situation I would'nt accept anything short of full refund plus costs and damages and that includes the cost of skull dragging your boat all over the country!.Anyway good luck and keep us all posted on any developments.Jace.

[Argle]

Sorry to hear of your woes MT all the best in getting it replaced / repaired / refunded. The 575 is a great hull just hope you get to use it sooner rather than later and yeah like everyone else has said, your gonna need a lawyer son.

Cheers and Beers

[MIKOS]

Do not waste your money on a solicitor.

Go to consumer affairs because this is the type of thing that they are there for.

I wish you luck and think that if you take this step you will have a victory in the way of some sort of compensation.If not the vendor will have to fork up for the repairs.

Write every detail that you can remember about the conversation perticularly what the vendor said about the condition of the boat.

Good luck because it sound like you have got a strong good case on your hands and your boat once it has been repaired sound like a very nice machine for you and your family

Mike ;)

[stork71]

Keep your chin up Turk.. .. Give the guy a call and put it on him to sort it out, one way or another.. He may have been screwed as well but it's not up to you to wear it...What goes around , comes around.. All that karma stuff and all..

[Vic1]

Having a few issues similar to this over the past few years, my plan of attack would be;

1. a strongly worded letter sent to the previous owner stating if repairs are not paid by him to your satisfaction you will sue (solicitor can help you with this). Basically a scare tactic.

If this doesn't get you anywhere, have a long hard think about whether you want to go further with legal representation, costs are high and there is NO such thing as a cut and dry case. The law is always seen in various shades of grey, and it may cost FAR more than the cost of a new engine, to get some money out of the previous owner.......

Best of luck, sadly you may need it

[Bosunsmate]

Hey Mad_Turk,

Try Byron at MacDonald Leong Lawyers, they are a young firm who are reputable and fair dinkum with advice.....another good solicitor is Janette Williamson she is an older woman who's husband is a mobile mechanic so he may be able to work together with her, she is also in Kirwan, they are both on Thuringowa Drive.

No doubt you have gathered I am also in Townsville, would be happy to hear your progress in this one.

Good luck and hope you get the right and moral/ethical outcome.

Graeme

[cooky]

another good solicitor is Janette Williamson

I can also recommend her, she is our company solicitor - we've used her for various things over the years and she's got some sting in her tail :o
I've also used Roberts Nehmer (large firm) and they seem pretty good, but expensive.

I lost $20,000 a few years ago in an attempt to purchase my very first boat. Learnt from the experience - took me about 5 years to be able to afford to finally purchase one. I decided not to fight because I was just too busy at work and I was already stretched financially - the legal costs could have been a nightmare. This was from a boat manufacturer (Gold Coast) who liquidated before I received the boat - I'll post his name up here in case he's appeared down there anywhere. Would still like to have a word with him after he seemed to dissappear ;) :'(
Tracking through consumer affairs - he had a bit of a history of closing companies down under various family members names and nothing they could do about it - made me sick.

[bigmack]

Mad Turk - any progress mate? We are all keen to hear about the situation and any positive news.

Phill

[WILD_TURKEY]

GIDDAY MATE , SORRY TO HERE ABOPUT YOUR BAD EXPERIENCE WITH YOUR BOAT ETC........ I HAD THE SAME PROBLEM WITH MY MERCRUISER TAKING WATER IN THE ENGINE AND FROTHING THE OIL , YOUR SITUATION SOUNDS VERY SIMILAR TO MINE, IT TURNED OUT TO BE A CRACKED ENGINE BLOCK BETWEEN 1 & 2 CYLINDERS WHERE THE WATER JACKETS DO THERE JOB. YOU CAN DO WHAT I DID AND GET ANOTHER SECOND HAND MOTOR OR GET YOUR BLOCK SLEEVED AND YOU SHOULD BE OK ....GOOD LUCK , # :-/WILD TURKEY..

[ahoj]

solicitors can cost you 2 motors and you still don't have one I do have a solution but not allowed to write it down--- is your motor a 4 stroke? if so go for 2 stroke and trade yours in...... only way to recover....
If its internal with a leg then skip best part of the nonsence--sorry
Ahoj

[Mad_Turk]

yes the engine is 4 stroke...

What is the thing that u can not talk here???

[Mad_Turk]

Hi All,

No progress yet? My lawyer has written him a letter of demand for my money back and he has untill 3/3/2006 to reply for it.
Thx for all the help but I do not want to buy a new block nor an engine. I have spent 30.000 on a boat that should at least take me out on the water, but instead I ended up with a boat that sat in mechanics for a week and now in my backyard for the past 2 weeks.I will not settle this matter by spending more money out of my pocket and forget about it all. Instead I will spend that money on a lawyer(even another 30.000 if I have to) and get this guy because this should not happen.

Money or the boat is not an issue anymore but my pride is,because I am very pissed off!!! Being a Turkish person we deal with these kind of matters in a different way in Turkey. That is why I am willing to pay what ever to get this guy in court,I want to hurt him financially so that this will be a good lesson to him...And if its costs me more than the boat hey at least I ll have a good story to tell!!!

Thx All...Will keep you posted with the news...





Mad Turk - any progress mate? We are all keen to hear about the situation and any positive news.

Phill

[Mad_Turk]

Thx Graeme...


Will keep you posted mate...Hey Mad_Turk,

Try Byron at MacDonald Leong Lawyers, they are a young firm who are reputable and fair dinkum with advice.....another good solicitor is Janette Williamson she is an older woman who's husband is a mobile mechanic so he may be able to work together with her, she is also in Kirwan, they are both on Thuringowa Drive.

No doubt you have gathered I am also in Townsville, would be happy to hear your progress in this one.

Good luck and hope you get the right and moral/ethical outcome.

Graeme

[Mad_Turk]

Thx Cooky...

I have a lawyer but I will still get in touch with Janette Williamson, you are the 3 rd person who recommended her to me...



another good solicitor is Janette Williamson

I can also recommend her, she is our company solicitor - we've used her for various things over the years and she's got some sting in her tail #:o
I've also used Roberts Nehmer (large firm) and they seem pretty good, but expensive.

I lost $20,000 a few years ago in an attempt to purchase my very first boat. # Learnt from the experience - took me about 5 years to be able to afford to finally purchase one. #I decided not to fight because I was just too busy at work and I was already stretched financially - the legal costs could have been a nightmare. # This was from a boat manufacturer (Gold Coast) who liquidated before I received the boat - I'll post his name up here in case he's appeared down there anywhere. #Would still like to have a word with him after he seemed to dissappear #;) :'( # #
Tracking through consumer affairs - he had a bit of a history of closing companies down under various family members names and nothing they could do about it - made me sick.

[Tunzafun]

Just make sure you write as much down as soon as you can. Buy a diary and make entries on the days it occured as close as you can remember. It is amazing how quickly the memory dulls the detail and I have no doubt you are in for a long legal battle.

Good Luck, I think you have a solid case.

Ross

[PinHead]

the 30k on a lawyer isn't going to go far. I just spent 3k (and did not even get to court) with mine chasing an unscrupulous builder for 11k...the bastard wound up his company. The guy you are after at any time may declare himself bankrupt and if he has no assets you then get nothing and have to pay your lawyer.
It all comes down to taking a punt with the legal system.

Personally, I would spend the money on getting the motor replaced...at least you know you have an operating boat. With the legal system...money spent with no guarantee of a successful resolution for yourself and then perhaps no money left for a motor replacement...plus all the legal crap will have to be carried out in NSW.

I guess the old adage of buyer beware rings true...

"Money or the boat is not an issue anymore but my pride is,because I am very pissed off!!! Being a Turkish person we deal with these kind of matters in a different way in Turkey."...didn't someone just recently say something about adopting Australian values?..LOL

Alas it is an unfortuante situation and with no warranties being a private sale it could be a legal minefield and a long expensive process.

[Angla]

I agree in principal at least that the guy should not get away with it. You have to have guts to stand up to this type of injustice due to the possible costs and risk of outcome..Good luck sincerely with the fight.

Angla

[cooky]

the 30k on a lawyer isn't going to go far. I just spent 3k (and did not even get to court) with mine chasing an unscrupulous builder for 11k...the bastard wound up his company. The guy you are after at any time may declare himself bankrupt and if he has no assets you then get nothing and have to pay your lawyer.
It all comes down to taking a punt with the legal system.

Personally, I would spend the money on getting the motor replaced...at least you know you have an operating boat. With the legal system...money spent with no guarantee of a successful resolution for yourself and then perhaps no money left for a motor replacement...plus all the legal crap will have to be carried out in NSW.

I guess the old adage of buyer beware rings true...

"Money or the boat is not an issue anymore but my pride is,because I am very pissed off!!! Being a Turkish person we deal with these kind of matters in a different way in Turkey."...didn't someone just recently say something about adopting Australian values?..LOL

Alas it is an unfortuante situation and with no warranties being a private sale it could be a legal minefield and a long expensive process.


i recently spent 3k also on a few letters from our solicitor to another. We came to an agreement (I was disputing a contract condition placed on someone I had hired from ex employer).

When I lost the $20,000 I also wanted to chase this person because I was so angry and he'd done it before and I wasn't the only person this time (my investigations found a few more). I wanted to set an example. I thought long and hard about violence or damage to anything of his, however time and distance (he being in Gold Coast and me in Townsville) helped calm me down. I probably would have chased him, but work was just too busy at the time and family. I look at it as a positive experience - I learnt a lot and haven't been ripped off since - and most likely won't.
He wound up his company which makes it quite difficult for unsecured creditors and once I found out he had a history of doing this I knew that he'd be good at it.

I think 'good on ya' if you do chase this guy. If he's bought a new boat like this he most likely does have assets to chase / lose.

[WILD_TURKEY]

IF YOU CHASE THIS GUY AND SPEND 3OK OR MORE DOSNT MEAN YOU WILL WIN AND IF YOU DO YOU MAY NOT GET YOUR MONEY ANYWAY , I HAVE JUST BEAN THROUGH A LONG LEGAL BATTLE RECENTLY AND WON BUT CAME OUT OF IT ABOUT 5K DOWN , TRUST ME THE ONLY WINNERS IN THIS KIND OF BATTLE IS THE LEGAL PROFESSION ............AT LEAST IF YOU FIX YOUR BOAT ON A BUDGET YOU WILL HAVE SOMETHING YOU CAN ENJOY AND STILL HAVE SOMETHING THATS WORTH 30K NOT 60-70K IF YOU WASTE YOUR MONEY WITH LAWYERS AND YOULL STILL HAVE A GOOD STORY TO TELL ..................CHEERS MATE GOOD LUCK.........

[WILD_TURKEY]

MATE, IF YOU NEED MECHANICAL OR MARINE ADVISE I WOULD HAPPLY HELP YOU OUT IF YOU NEED IT ...... I DO THIS FOR A CRUST AND DO KNOW A BIT ABOUT THE STERN DRIVE SYSTEM AND COMPONENTS . ONCE AGAIN WOULD BE HAPPY TO HELP A FELLOW BOATY JUST LET ME KNOW...........CHEERS MATE .. ;)

[DR]

have you considered contacting the police & getting their opinion on this.
if you have proof that he knew about all the problems & misrepresented them to sell the boat, it may be fraud & they may be able to help.
to most people, the thought of going to gaol is a whole lot scarier than being sued!!!

[Lone_Wolf]

Mad_Turk

IMHO, you need to do two things only:

a) Fix your boat. Use your pent up anger, frustration and your want to avenge on replacing your motor. Reading this is enough to give anyone ulcers.

I base my thoughts on the facts as presented. Without an inspection from a qualified marine mechanic or surveyor to check out the boat before buying, I believe you are on shakey ground for a claim. #

I would approach your financier and enquire about refinancing your boat loan to cover cost of replacement motor. That would be the cheapest way out of it. Instead of being $10K out of pocket, you could be about $100 p.m. out of pocket this way. # #

Get back on the water and put this experience behind you. This guy is an unethical prick who has shown his true character in the face of adversity. Let's see what you are made of and get on with fixing this.

This is not about pride or how you deal with people in Turkey or Australia. It's about getting you back on the water. I am sure the hand of kindness would extend to you from Ausfish members to assist wherever possible with this project. # #

It's not that I lack empathy for you. Sometimes, there are lost causes from which you have to walk away for the sake of your sanity.

Oh and the second thing....

b) Change your name, Really_Mad_Turk

Regards

LW

[billfisher]

Mad Turk,
I'm no legal expert, but I always thought it was a case of buyer beware when it comes to second hand goods, unless a warranty is expressly given. You have to assume the seller is not going to advertise any defects.
Then again if you can prove the internet posts relate to the boat you bought it just might save you 10K.

[Barrymundi]

I took a bloke to court for $20.

I won.

Principals.

Al

[Mad_Turk]

Mate I dont know about you,but I sure will not buy a new engine or fix the boat. He just emailed me saying that boat has been serviced and been checked by Webbe Marine and an authorised Volvo Penta dealer in Sidney.Both said nothing wrong with the engine to the previous owner. Something :P must of happened driving the boat from Sidney to Townsville because the boat has been in the water only once for 5 minutes,next trip to Whitsundays the boat didint start. i took it to Volvo Penta dealer in Townsville he sais the engine is totally buggered!!

Who is lying?

A) Me ( for using the boat for 300 hours in the past week and not telling everyone)
B) The previous Owner
C) The authorised Volvo Penta Dealer in Sidney
D) Webbe Marine in Sidney

Wouldnt you like to know?

For me it is still not about the boat or the money. What ever step I take from here I will loose money and I accept that. It is a principal thing that you can not let this happen to you and let them get away with it.

I was very angry yesterday and I did say some stupid things but I stay behind my words.

I WILL NOT LET HIM OR WHOEVER SAID THAT "THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS BOAT" GET AWAY WITH IT!!!

It is as simple as that....








Mad_Turk

IMHO, you need to do two things only:

a) Fix your boat. Use your pent up anger, frustration and your want to avenge on replacing your motor. Reading this is enough to give anyone ulcers.

I base my thoughts on the facts as presented. Without an inspection from a qualified marine mechanic or surveyor to check out the boat before buying, I believe you are on shakey ground for a claim. #

I would approach your financier and enquire about refinancing your boat loan to cover cost of replacement motor. That would be the cheapest way out of it. Instead of being $10K out of pocket, you could be about $100 p.m. out of pocket this way. # #

Get back on the water and put this experience behind you. This guy is an unethical prick who has shown his true character in the face of adversity. Let's see what you are made of and get on with fixing this.

This is not about pride or how you deal with people in Turkey or Australia. It's about getting you back on the water. I am sure the hand of kindness would extend to you from Ausfish members to assist wherever possible with this project. # #

It's not that I lack empathy for you. Sometimes, there are lost causes from which you have to walk away for the sake of your sanity.

Oh and the second thing....

b) Change your name, Really_Mad_Turk

Regards

LW

[Mad_Turk]

Where are you from Wild_Turkey???





MATE, IF YOU NEED MECHANICAL OR MARINE ADVISE I WOULD HAPPLY HELP YOU OUT IF YOU NEED IT ...... I DO THIS FOR A CRUST AND DO KNOW A BIT ABOUT THE STERN DRIVE SYSTEM AND COMPONENTS . ONCE AGAIN WOULD BE HAPPY TO HELP A FELLOW BOATY JUST LET ME KNOW...........CHEERS MATE .. ;)

[sid_fishes]

mad turk, after reading all of this i tend to listen to what lone_wolf has said. you seem to want vengence for all that has happened but you yourself has said that you had you brother check it out. if it was me , and wanting to fish/ play and enjoy what i have invested in i would just bite the bullit and fix the motor, its the less stress thing and thats what our lifestyle is all about. i am sorry to hear about the fix you are in but at some point in our life we have to just get on with it. i do wish you well which ever way you go.......... cheers ian

[stork71]

If the guy had originally posted on another forum, chances are he is following this thread!!! HeHe, look out buddy, you've got a mad arse turk hunting you down !!!! ;D ;D ;D

[stork71]

Chances are if the original owner posted a question on another web site, there's every possibility that he is following this thread!!! HeHe, good luck buddy cause now you've got a a mad arse turk chasing you now!! ;D ;D ;D

[mdhux]

Definitely see a solicitor. Just keep in the back of your mind the principle of Caveat Emptor; "let the buyer beware". For example if you buy a car at an action which turns out to be a lemon, hard luck. I believe if you have asked the seller questions and he/she has made misrepresentations to you; you may have a cause of action. It is even more so if the questions relate to a problem which could not be detected upon a reasonable inspection. What is reasonable is something for a judge to decide if it goes that far. See a solicitor and as mentioned, do it as soon as possible.

[rough_shag]

Someone famous and very smart once said that for evil to prosper it only requires good men to do nothing.In this country the general attitude seems to be one of rationalisation and if seems that there is no 'financial' gain in it then just ignore the problem and move on.In other words take the easiest route,unfortunately this attitude allows unscrupulous con men and criminals to prosper at the expense of good law abiding people.
We 'allow' plenty of lying double crossing and backhanded dealings by our political leaders and businessmen all seemingly in the name of a peaceful existence-is that what is meant by 'Australian Values'?.
Aussies once had a spine and were respected all over the world for being straight shooters(in more ways than one!!)who wouldn't cop the kind of underhanded crap we seem to ignore for the sake of peace.
Stand up for whats right Mad Turk and pursue these leaches by every means you can-at least you will be able to live with yourself regardless of the outcome.PS:watch that temper-don't get madder get even and get justice.Jace.

[Mad_Turk]

Gee I wish my english was as good as yours to explain all that...That is exactly why I will stand up for what I think its right...
Yeah the temper got out of control for a while but I am back on the track and will be until I sort this out... Thx mate...

Someone famous and very smart once said that for evil to prosper it only requires good men to do nothing.In this country the general attitude seems to be one of rationalisation and if seems that there is no 'financial' gain in it then just ignore the problem and move on.In other words take the easiest route,unfortunately this attitude allows unscrupulous con men and criminals to prosper at the expense of good law abiding people.
#We 'allow' plenty of lying double crossing and backhanded dealings by our political leaders and businessmen all seemingly in the name of a peaceful existence-is that what is meant by 'Australian Values'?.
Aussies once had a spine and were respected all over the world for being straight shooters(in more ways than one!!)who wouldn't cop the kind of underhanded crap we seem to ignore for the sake of peace.
#Stand up for whats right Mad Turk and pursue these leaches by every means you can-at least you will be able to live with yourself regardless of the outcome.PS:watch that temper-don't get madder get even and get justice.Jace.

[PinHead]

Someone famous and very smart once said that for evil to prosper it only requires good men to do nothing.In this country the general attitude seems to be one of rationalisation and if seems that there is no 'financial' gain in it then just ignore the problem and move on.In other words take the easiest route,unfortunately this attitude allows unscrupulous con men and criminals to prosper at the expense of good law abiding people.
#We 'allow' plenty of lying double crossing and backhanded dealings by our political leaders and businessmen all seemingly in the name of a peaceful existence-is that what is meant by 'Australian Values'?.
Aussies once had a spine and were respected all over the world for being straight shooters(in more ways than one!!)who wouldn't cop the kind of underhanded crap we seem to ignore for the sake of peace.
#Stand up for whats right Mad Turk and pursue these leaches by every means you can-at least you will be able to live with yourself regardless of the outcome.PS:watch that temper-don't get madder get even and get justice.Jace.

hey rough...maybe you might want to help the turk with his legal bills?

I would not call the vendor a con man...turks brother even went for a test run and said the boat was OK...firstly I would be after my brother if it was me.

Alas it seems that turk got stuck with someone elses problem...the joys of buying privately...no warranty...and after his brother taking it for a test run he bought the boat.
Personally I would have gotten a marine surveyor or, at least, a marine mechanic to check everything out..I doubt there would be much reason for this to even go to court...what would you pursue the vendor for??? The purchaser had an agent (his brother) inspect the boat and stated that all was ok...that would be good enough for me to say..sorry but there is no case.

Would be a shame to throw good monay after bad for no decent outcome

[Lone_Wolf]

Who is lying?

A) Me ( for using the boat for 300 hours in the past week and not telling everyone)
B) The previous Owner
C) The authorised Volvo Penta Dealer in Sidney
D) Webbe Marine in Sidney

Wouldnt you like to know?

For me it is still not about the boat or the money. What ever step I take from here I will loose money and I accept that. It is a principal thing that you can not let this happen to you and let them get away with it.

I was very angry yesterday and I did say some stupid things but I stay behind my words. #

I WILL NOT LET HIM OR #WHOEVER SAID THAT "THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS BOAT" GET AWAY WITH IT!!!

It is as simple as that....

Really_Mad_Turk,

You are a proud and angry man, with just cause. No one will sway you from the path you chose to take. #

In the meantime, I go out fishing every weekend. You are more than welcome to join me. #

LW

[rough_shag]

Pinhead,yeah your probably right but anyone who has been ripped off by some dishonest subhuman will understand the anger and frustration of just wanting a fair deal for your hard earned bucks.
I was warned not to pursue an unrelated matter through courts for many of the same reasons quoted here-but I did have a strong case of course-and ended up winning after7yrs and a ridiculous amount of money which was re-imbursed to me via court costs.
Can't help feeling sorry for a guy who just wants to save up all his hard earned dollars and go fishing now and then and who ends up in a shithouse situation like this.
Jace.

[fishy9999]

i have had horror problems with mt e tec engines and sort leagal advice its has cost me nearly 25 000 in leagals and engineering experts to prove my case and where still not in court so my advice if you are cash strapped and want to save write it off buy a knew one i expect it is going to cost another 50 000 on top for court so it takes time 8 months so far court hearing not expected for approx 6 months alot to prepare but if your a person whom like me has been ripped off then why let them away with it, if you have money fight them don t let them away with it .

[fishy9999]

and you will only get back your purchase price keep receipts of all cost if going legal or you can t get them back if you win . if you lose he can counter sue for costs so you have to make sure you can prove your case better fixing or replacing forget the lawyers unless your sure. and you also must remember you can t get blood out of a stone.

[Mad-One]

but you can crush the stone ;D ;D ;D

[Lone_Wolf]

Paper beats rock Mad-One.

[ahoj]

Mad Turk,
The money you gave the previous owner is gone---I bet ---what you going to get--- $10 per week? if you win with 20K solicitors costs.. and possibly 9 month loss-- No boating --No fishing to spend even another 30K to teach him a lesson is futile.. sending him a letter is all i would do... and stop paying 350$ per hour for a secretary to write a letter.... cool head is needed.. Take the motor to a friendly local motor mechanic replace the block rest of the stuff is there ( why should you buy spares?) my estimate cost 3k with labour.... and you will finish doing it anyway..


Ahoj

Please explain what type motor and HP ---picture will be good-- is the boat in better condition?

[wayne_cook]

m t
have u had any response back from the seller he might come to a comprermise before court.
might save a lot of hassles

[Mad-One]

Paper beats rock Mad-One.
NOT IF YA WET THE PAPER AND MASH IT TO A PULP WITH THE ROCK ;D

[WILD_TURKEY]

mate i'm from brisbane , i do a wide range of marine work mainly a lot of paint work on new boats but have a lot of experience with mechanical and fit out work inc stern drive which i have myself , there not as complicated as you would think , would be happy to offer any advise you may need , spent the day on the bay yesterday and had a ball and no mechanical hiccups so i must have done a good job rebuilding my old girl...... 8-)

[legless]

Court maybe an idea but could cost you $3000 to $5000 in solicitor fees....you'll have to weigh that up as well. If the boat is in good nick maybe best to go new motor and take it as a lesson learned.Just means the only way to get any value for your money is to use it as much as you can and enjoy yourself out there. Don't kill yourself with stress, i think we've all had a case of ruthless pricks some worse than others, karma will get him anyway.Take care

[WILD_TURKEY]

WELL FELLAS , I'M A BIT SAD TODAY,MY BOAT OR SHOULD I SAY MY TRAILER PARK BRAKE LET GO AND TOOK OF DOWN THE BAKE YARD AND SMASHED THROUGH MY 6M WIDE DOUBLE GATES AND BENT A 200MM X100MM STEEL POST DAMAGING THE DUCK BOARD AND 4 BLADE PROP AND LEG......... :'( THANK GOD FOR INSURANCE BUT IT STILL HURTS .... BUGGER .

[ahoj]

Silly boy-- why didn't you do a better job and kill the boat -motor and all unlucky in a way-------- ::) ::)

[WILD_TURKEY]

Silly boy-- why didn't you do a better job and kill the boat -motor and all unlucky in a way-------- ::) ::)
ahoj, what exactly do you mean by that ? i take it you dont like stern drives ......... :-?

[WILD_TURKEY]

Maybe your just taking the p**s out my unfortunate experience ............those in glass houses and all that ..................... ::)

[Jack_Montana]

Don't throw away more money trying to fight this,put it into a new engine.

You have to accept that you made a huge mistake by buying a 30k boat without a $300 marine survey.If you buy a car or boat without having it mechanically inspected by a professional,you are accepting it in it's current condition.

I disagree with Pinhead in blaming your brother,your brother is not a mechanic and therefore cannot carry out a thorough professional inspection.

Accept the mistake and wear the cost.

[DR]

see my post on page 1, & make an enquiry at the small claims tribunal, or whatever it is known as, doesn't matter that you did not have it checked by a professional or any of the other reasons stated here. i think there is a limit to how much can be claimed. it is heard by a single representative of the court & they make the decision. you have to present your own case, no solicitors. costs something like $30 odd to get the ball rolling. you would need all the stuff posted on the internet & proof it is the same boat, plus the add you bought it from & anything else you have that can strenghten your case.
worth looking into, & i think,if he does not turn up you automatically win ;) & the result is all legally binding

[PinHead]

I disagree with Pinhead in blaming your brother,your brother is not a mechanic and therefore cannot carry out a thorough professional inspection.

.

My point on this isthat if itshould go to court that his brother had inspected the boat, as opposed to buying the boat sight unseen.


DR...the small claims has a limit of 10k and this would have to be in NSW as that is where the sale was made.

It will be interesting to find out which way MT goes on this and the eventual outcome.

[DR]

I disagree with Pinhead in blaming your brother,your brother is not a mechanic and therefore cannot carry out a thorough professional inspection.

.

My point on this isthat if itshould go to court that his brother had inspected the boat, as opposed to buying the boat sight unseen.


DR...the small claims has a limit of 10k and this would have to be in NSW as that is where the sale was made.

It will be interesting to find out which way MT goes on this and the eventual outcome.


still worth a look. $10k would ease the pain. I am sure NSW would have a similar scheme..

[Mad_Turk]

Thx DR,

I will go there tomorrow.

see my post on page 1, & make an enquiry at the small claims tribunal, or whatever it is known as, doesn't matter that you did not have it checked by a professional or any of the other reasons stated here. i think there is a limit to how much can be claimed. it is heard by a single representative of the court & they make the decision. you have to present your own case, no solicitors. costs something like $30 odd to get the ball rolling. you would need all the stuff posted on the internet & proof it is the same boat, plus the add you bought it from & anything else you have that can strenghten your case.
worth looking into, & i think,if he does not turn up you automatically win ;) & the result is all legally binding

[Mad_Turk]

I do not think some people here understands the situation properly.

I did make a mistake of not getting it surveyed
I did make a mistake of not going there my self

I accept all this,but when I spoke to the owner and asked him that if the engine was all ok and ifhe had any troubles with it.He said was all fine and he never had any problems with the engine accept that he floushed it with to much water pressure with out starting the engine. And he took it to the mechanics and they showed him what to do properly. But this is not the problem with the engine.I also emailed him telling him about the problems I am having. He said he only had problems at the beginning and than it was all sorted. If you read his forum at the first page you will see that someone came to view the boat on 8 th december. So the boat wasint fixed untill he took it in again which is after 9 th december. I bought the boat on the 27 th January. He had the authorised volvo penta dealer checked the boat. He said this but I did not see receipts yet. So my case is that the owner knew the problems that the boat had while he was selling it to me and he didint mention any of this. This I think has nothing to do with "private buyer beware" scenario. Not all of us are mechanics and can not know of problems as well as mechanics or surveyers.

The other thing is I dont understand that some people here really thinks that I should spend the money on the engine and take it as a good lesson. I did have my lesson allready,but what about the person who sold me the boat.Who will give him a lesson? Or is he going to get away with it all and we all sleep comfortably thinking "shit happens". I am finding this very hard to accept. This could happen to anybody( well probably not after this forum I guess). And I dont mean just boats or cars,it could be anything,anything you buy privately with misleading information.If I have been cheated ( which I think is the scenario here) than I should be able to claim whats mine with out to much hassle. Small claims court, high court what ever. It is not which court. Important thing is when shit like this happens(to whoever) who is going to make it right?

Well I am still looking in to the matter everyday and collecting my evidence,sorry from now on I will not be posting about what I am doing because I might need all that information to my self when I go to court or small claims...

Its been a very interesting forum for me,I can see how sensitive and good you guys are about your country and your values and I do respect that a lot...Thx for all the ideas and suggestions...I will keep you updated about my progress...

Meanwhile if anyone needs a hand as a deckie in Townsville area drop me a line...I will be more than happy to join you for a trip.

Thx Guys...

[Barrymundi]

Drop me a PM with your details Turk,

IF the wind drops I will take you out for a fish

Al

[ahoj]

Turkey ------I like stern drive legs ,but what I meant-- had you smashed the rig well and trully you could have had a claim on insurance for new boat My thoughts were for your benefit.... and i feel rather guilty for not explaining in a first place sorry mate..

Ahoj

[Mad_Turk]

:)




Turkey ------I like #stern #drive legs ,but what I meant-- had you smashed the rig well and trully you could have had a claim on insurance for new boat #My thoughts were for your benefit.... and i feel rather guilty for not explaining in a first place sorry mate..

Ahoj

[ahoj]

Now --don't get any ideas Mad Turk lol :D

[WILD_TURKEY]

NO WORRYS AHOJ , SEE YOUR POINT MATE , MAYBE THE LEG IS SMASHED I SHOULD CHECK A LITTLE CLOSER , THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP MATE ...........HEY TURK YOU SHOULD CHECK YOURS AS WELL . JUST KIDDING MATE . I HAVE SENT YOU A PM MATE HOPE I CAN BE OF SOME HELP...CHEERS ALL .. ;D

[Fenris]

I'm the previous owner of this boat. The post that I wrote was similiar to this one... I was after advice from anybody who had experienced similiar problems. When I first used the boat a fan belt broke on the cooling system. The dealer rectified this. Later on, I put the boat on the market. Soon after that the thermostat closed, pressurised the cooling system and burst a hose... causing water to spray into the engine bay. I wanted a refund, but unfortunately with a second hand boat had no option but to let the dealer fix it (on advice from the boating Industry Association of NSW). I immediately took the boat off the market, as I didn't want to sell something that was unsafe. They stripped the motor down, lubricated it, new thermostat, plugs etc. I then tried to sell it, but while starting the motor on ear muffs the motor wouldn't start.... I then found water in the oil. Back to the dealer. They removed the head, exhaust manifold... inspected everything possible, reassembled and test ran. I got the boat home re-advertised it and the next day had someone look at it. Again the motor would not start on the muffs. The service manager at the dealer then asked how I was flushing the motor... as they had done absolutely everything they could to ensure that the motor ran perfectly. I said that I turned the water on then tried to start the motor. It was at this stage I found out that with stern drives you must start the motor first, then turn on the water so that the cooling system does not pressurise and put water into the motor... bypassing the impeller. The oil was flushed with clean oil several times, I changed my procedure and proved the boat on and off the water. No problems. I then had a Volvo penta specialist assess the motor, check for leaks and report on the quality of Webbe marine's work. They said the previous repair work was thorough and could not fault the motor (two weeks before the sale). Now that I had gone out of my way to find any potential problems and was satisfied the boat was in good condition, I sold it. The boat was inspected by the buyers and test run, then inspected again before they took possesion. I sold it at a loss. I did my best to ensure that the boat was good to go... even so, it is my understanding that it is the buyers responsibility to carry out their own due diligence. However, I have since taken the service record from the volvo mechanic in Queensland to both my mechanics to make enquiries on behalf of the new owner. They stand firmly by the quality of their workmanship. I have also passed on the details of both these mechanics to the buyer. Both of my mechanics said that anything could have happened to the motor since. Furthermore, after speaking to the mechanic in Queensland, they were unable to tell me what caused the damage to the motor. I was upfront with the fact that there had been water contamination in the oil, due to the incorrect flushing procedure... but assured the buyer that the motor had been inspected and it was running well. I also emphasised that they should be very careful when flushing the motor and check the oil often, when they took possesion of the boat. I didn't mention the fan belt or rubber hose that burst... but they were consumable parts that I had bad luck with months ago and were no longer an issue. I had already turned many people away after the inital advertising campaign whilst the motor was being repaired/inspected. I did everything that I could to ensure that the new owner had an enjoyable experience with this boat.

[schnapper72]

I HOPE YOU GET THE P.....RICK AND SUE HIS ARSE OFF AND THEN SOME A--HOLES LIKE THAT NEED TO BE TAUGHT A LESSON AND MORE THAN LIKLEY BITCH IF THAT HAPPENED TO THEM
SO BEST OF LUCK SCHNAPPER72

[smerl]

Fenris

Good on you for responding - most people probably wouldn't have had the guts. I hope you can both work together to sort this out.

Cheers

Smerl

[2rods]

A sad story for both parties :'(

If you spend $30,000 on a boat you expect to get a good one (or $35,000 fenris). I f I was going to spend that amout I would have it checked out first (and have in the past).

I don't think the last owner was at fault as much as the so called "volvo" specialists who said it was fine.

If the 2 of you actualy sat down and talked to each other and worked together you might get the so called volvo specialist to assist with repair costs.

The other option of going to lawyers will just give them a big boat 8-) and you an empty wallet. And none of us wish to see more lawyers in $250,000 boat with no idea on how to fish ;D

Cheers

2rods

[roz]

It may not just be a case of buyer beware, a phone call or email to consumer affairs/fair trading.....what ever they call themselves. May be helpfull.

I really hope you get some justice from some where.

Good luck with this, I've have lost a similar amount of money, happened when NuSteel, went under. so I love to see the slimey rip-off merchants get caught.

Best of luck, you deserve it.

Roz

[Mad_Turk]

Good for you to come on board fenris...

What I dont understand is where are the service records that sais that the boat has been fixed or problem solved,receipts???
What I really do not understand is how come the engine is all rusted inside and even the spark plugs are rusted after boat being in the water for 5 minutes only!!!! I have only used the boat once since I bought this boat and that was only for 5 minutes to test run it in townsville. Due to bad weather we couldnt even get out on to the channel.

How can any mechanic say that there is nothing wrong with this engine,because if there was nothing wrong all this wouldnt happen. Volvo Penta dealer in Townsville inspected the engine and said that it dosent turn,they wouldnt know why because I have told them to stop working on it. I wanted to speak to fenris first before spending 75 $ an hour on marine mechanic. And frankly why should I spend all that money when the dealer and the volvo dealer sais that there is nothing wrong with the engine.

I tried to put the invoice from Volvo Penta dealer in Townsville but it is a scan copy and dosent fit here so I write exactly what it sais on the invoice


DRAIN ENGINE AND LEG OIL
REMOVE FUEL FILTER AND AIR FILTER
CHECK RAW WATER PUMP AND BELTS
ENGINE WILL NOT TURN OVER
MAY HAVE HAD WATER IN CYLINDER
REMOVE SPARK PLUGS,STARTER MOTOR,FLY WHELL
ENGINE STILL WILL NOT TURN OVER
REFIT STARTER MOTOR, SPARK PLUGS AND AIR FILTER
FILL LEG WITH NEW OIL
CUSTOMER REQUESTED THAT THE ENGINE BE LEFT WITH OUT OIL.


They also said to me that the best thing to do is buy a new long motor.No accesories just the motor,and fix the accesosries on this engine to the new motor.
They quoted me 5700 +GST for the long motor
Also the fitting of the motor which is about 2000

This sets me back 8270 Dollars thinking there is nothing wrong with anything else.

They also found that the leg output shaft is bent, god knows when did that happen or how???

After paying 30.000 dollars for a boat it is a little hard to accept all this money that I have to pay if I decide to go this way.
Which actually now makes that the boat will cost me 42270 dollars.

Somewhere along the line there is someone who is not telling the truth and I want to find out who.






I'm the previous owner of this boat. #The post that I wrote was written while I was angry, and similiar to this one I was after advice from anybody who had experienced similiar problems. #When I first used the boat a fan belt broke on the cooling system. #The dealer rectified this. #I put the boat on the market as in three months I had got no use out of it due to the previous bad experience with my family onboard. #Soon after that the thermostat closed and pressurised the cooling system and burst a hose... causing water to spray into the engine bay. #I wanted a refund, but unfortunately with a second hand boat had no option but to let the dealer fix it. #I immediately took the boat off the market as I didn't want to sell something that was unsafe. #They stripped the motor down, lubricated it, new thermostat, plugs etc. #I then tried to sell it, but while starting the motor on ear muffs the motor wouldn't start.... I then found water in the oil. #Back to the dealer. #They removed the head, exhaust manifold... inspected everything possible, reassembled and test ran. #I got the boat home re-advertised it and the next day had someone look at it. #Again the motor would not start on the muffs. #The service manager at the dealer then asked how I was flushing the motor... as they had done absolutely everything they could to ensure that the motor ran perfectly. #I said that I turned the water on then tried to start the motor. #It was at this stage I found out that with stern drives you must start the motor first, then turn on the water so that the cooling system does not pressurise and put water into the motor... bypassing the impeller or something (I'm no mechanic). #The oil was flushed with clean oil several times, I changed my procedure and proved the boat on and off the water. #No problems. #I still wasn't happy taking the dealer's word for it and had a Volvo penta specialist assess the motor, check for leaks and report on the quality of Webbe marine's work. #They said the previous repair work was thorough and could not fault the motor (two weeks before the sale). #Now that I had gone out of my way to find any potential problems and was at this time satisfied the boat was in good condition I sold it. #The boat was inspected by the buyers and test run, then inspected again before they took possesion. #I paid $35k for it ten months ago and sold it for $30. #I sold it at a loss and still have a small debt to pay out. #I did my best to ensure that the boat was good to go... but unfortunately it is my understanding that it is the buyers responsibility to carry out their own due diligence. #However, I have since taken the service record from the volvo mechanic in Queensland to both my mechanics and they stand firmly by the quality of their workmanship. #I have also passed on the details of both my mechanics to the buyer. #Both of my mechanics said that anything could have happened to the motor since. #Furthermore, after speaking to the mechanic in Queensland, they were unable to tell me what caused the damage to the motor. #I was upfront with the fact that I had had water contamination in the oil due to the incorrect flushing procedure... but assured the buyer that the motor had been inspected and it was running well. #I emphasised that they should be very careful when flushing the motor, check the oil often when they took possesion of the boat. # didn't mention the fan belt or rubber hose that burst... but they were consumable parts that I had bad luck with months ago and were no longer an issue... and after all I was trying to sell a boat. #I had already turned many people away after the inital advertising campaign whilst the motor was being repaired/inspected. #I did everything that I could to ensure that the new owner had an enjoyable experience with this boat. #Unfortunately, as I sold it at a loss... I would not be in a financial position to help him out, even if I did feel compelled to out of good will. #I paid a premium to have the dealer backup service. #He took the risk on a private sale... I assumed his brother was a mechanic of some sort. #Now you all have both sides of the story.

[Fenris]

You have all the service records from Webbe marine. If you need clarification, give them a call. I faxed you another copy of the receipt from Machan's Marina today. It's description: Inquiry with Webbe marine of work to date, check spark plugs, check oil. Start and run engine to check for water leaks, run engine and check oil, test in water. This service record is dated 12 January 2006.

You mentioned the boat ran fine when you took it for a test run in Townsville. Did you flush the motor after this test run... if so how did you flush it. Was the oil checked afterwards?

How can the mechanics tell me it's fine and you have this trouble? I asked each mechanic that very question, they simply say anything could have happened.

[Mad_Turk]

Fenris,

Run fine for 5 minutes than back home than flush as you explained to trevor. That was it. End of the engine.
There are over 3000 people watching this discussion and I am going to make you an offer in front of all these people once in for all.

Because fenris you lied to me on few occasions about this boat.

1) I asked you before I bought the boat in these words " Did you have any trouble with the engine?" You said "No"
2) When I mentioned to you about I found out about your forum on the internet,you said that you do not belong to any disscussion group and you did not post anything.

It is clear now that you are trying to put the blame on me but it is not the case.

I have just got back from solicitors. I have all the right in the world to sue you for this matter. Allthough it is a buyer beware but in this situation its so not the case.I have spoken to 3 different lawyers and they all said I can sue you for damages and you know where that will take us. LOTS OF MONEY!!! I am willing to go this way if you do not want to settle this matter between us.

So in front of all this people this is my offer to you.It is up to you to accept or not because ther will not be any other communication between you and me from now on untill the court case.

I want 5000 back from you( I will pay the rest) I want that money so I can fix this problem and put it behind me.

Who ever you bought this boat from,it had problems even before you bought it and I think the dealer you bought it from knows them but manage to slip away,thats why they didint want to do anything with you anymore because he didint want to wear the costs. And you let them get away. Now it became my problem,well kind of mine because I will not accept the boat as it is.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that lets work it out together,give me 5000 back and I will let this go and get it fixed. You will not hear from me again.

If you decide not to pay me 5000, than I have to do what I have to do and come after you. It will be expensive both for me and you. We will both loose more at the end, but sometimes you just have to do that...

So the choice is yours. I want to make a piece!!!





You have all the service records from Webbe marine. #If you need clarification, give them a call. #I faxed you another copy of the receipt from Machan's Marina today. #It's description: Inquiry with Webbe marine of work to date, check spark plugs, check oil. #Start and run engine to check for water leaks, run engine and check oil, test in water. #This service record is dated 12 January 2006.

You mentioned the boat ran fine when you took it for a test run in Townsville. #Did you flush the motor after this test run... if so how did you flush it. #Was the oil checked afterwards? #

How can the mechanics tell me it's fine and you have this trouble? #I asked each mechanic that very question, they simply say anything could have happened.

[billfisher]

Mad Turk,

It sounds like it might have picked up some water when it was in your hands. Otherwise why wasn't it siezed when you tried to first use it.
Another point is that it doesnt take much water to sieze an engine due to the tight tolerances involved. Often just one of the piston rings will grab and the engine can be freed with a bit of coaxing. The engine will often be fine is the water hasn't got into the crankshaft. Even then the crank can be rebuilt or replaced. What efforts did they take to free the engine? Why are they so sure its a right off? Note that my experience comes from petrol outboards. I don't know much about diesel engines.

I was also thinking that $2000 sounds like a lot to fit an engine. Even at $75 an hour thats 27 hours labour.

[Boz]

Well, Well, Well.......mate i'de just take the five and have it over and done with....

Don't take this as a threat of any kind at all as I don't even know the bloke what so ever.

Just from reading all the posts I belive Mad turk has an outstanding case and between what you have just said and the evidence he has you would be doing both of you a HUGE favour!!!

Anyway...your call. i know what I'd do!!!

Boz

[blaze]

dont think its a smart move to have a public airing on this one, maybe the pre owner and the new owner could use the pm system to sort this out as all other posts maybe just fueling the fire.
cheers
blaze

[familyman]

I may not be the only one who does not know how water could contaminate oil on a sound motor ie no blown gaskets or components.....
cheers jon

[Fenris]

I spoke to your mechanic. They could not tell me what condition the motor is in. The head has not been removed as they were instructed not to investigate it any further. Have you spoken to my mechanics yet? Please talk to both of them and you will understand my position. At the time of the sale I told you the boat was fine. As the test runs prove it was. I was upfront with the only major problem - water contamination in the oil. You have already acknowledged that you knew about that. Any other details were irrelevant as far as the boat sale was concerned. I had no obligation to tell you that I'd replaced a fan belt and a rubber hose. You believe that the original boat dealer is covering something up... tell them that and see what kind of response you get from them. I also had Volvo Penta specialists assess the motor before the sale (you should have that receipt by now). They confirmed that the motor must be started before the water is turned on to prevent water getting into the motor. It is not a simple case and I would not want to challenge two marine mechanics in court over a ten year old motor. There are too many variables. If you investigate your problem properly and it's cheaper than you think to fix, I'd recommend that. As I have said previously... I sold the boat at a loss and can not help you out there. I understand what it is like to have troubles with a new boat, but I did everything that I could to ensure your experience would be trouble free. I will represent myself in any court and confirm that. I think your next step should be to identify what the specific problem is and go from there. I believed that the boat was running well. Ultimately, how you decide to handle this is up to you. When I owned the boat... I did my best, I'll leave it at that.

[cooky]

You guys are getting somewhere - not sure where yet, but I feel better.

[Mr__Bean]

Sorry Fenris, still sounds to me like you knew it was a lemon and you just wanted to sell it off to some other sucker, trouble is the one you found won't lie down quietly for you.

Judge Judy over here thinks you should be making him an offer to settle and you both just get on with it.

How you try to recover some or all of it through the BIA is between you and them, not the Turk.

I just can't swallow the bit about not turning the water on before starting, and I can't swallow that you didn't just try to offload it to "some sucker".

Me thinks your pants are down (history shows this is not a good position to be in around a mad turk).

- Darren

[Grand_Marlin]

Mr Bean,
I thought the same about the water not being turned on first, I thought it sounded like bs... but I have only ever owned outboards.

I have just bought a sharkcat with volvo diesel sterndrive.

I didnt know this, and rang my mechanic today to verify.

He said that the salt water pump runs mechanically (no belts) off the front of the injector pump.
The water seals are apparently only thin and will not handle mains pressure water.
The pump is designed to suck, not be pressurised.

If the water seal fails, there are like relief holes in the pump housing to let the water pressure out, and not affect the oil seal which is behind these on the same shaft.
.
He said a common fault is that the seal goes, and lets water out these relief holes. People see the leak and decide to silicone these holes up to stop what they think is a leaking pump housing.

This then puts direct pressure on the oil seal, which can let go / leak under mains pressure water.

He also states that the oil seal is perfectly protected, providing the pressure relief holes arent blocked or sealed up.

Apparently this is the only place that pressurised water can ever enter the motor (providing all other gaskets etc are in good condition)

Apparently the best way to flush these motors is to have your water inlet pipe in a 20 litre bucket, and the garden hose filling the bucket at the same time, so as it is sucking and not pressurised.

My mechanic is actually fixing the water seals in the pump as we speak, as they were gone, and it was squirting water out the relief holes.

There is no water in the oil.

I am not trying to influence the outcome for Mad Turk or Fenris.... just relaying the information I found out today from a very reputable volvo mechanic in Brisbane.

It may / may not help anyone... but at least I have learnt something today. :)

What a bitch of a situation you two have.

From my legal experience, neither of your cases are "cut & dried" and will be very messy.

We have two consumers, relying on the integrity of the 4 mechanics involved.

The magistrates court will drag all of these factors together.

The key points as I see it would be:

1) Can Mad Turk prove that Fenris knowingly sold a boat that was faulty? Especially when he has receipts / reprts to prove it was mechanically sound to the best of his knowledge?

2) Can any of the mechanics be proven to be negligent or at fault? (It will be interesting to see what comes of the new report Fenris has. This may be the key to who is at fault)

3) Can Mad Turk prove that he didnt damage the motor himself?

Finger pointing will not cut it in court.... solid evidence is crucial.

Cheers

Pete

[Mr__Bean]

He said that the salt water pump runs mechanically (no belts) off the front of the injector pump.
The water seals are apparently only thin and will not handle mains pressure water.
The pump is designed to suck, not be pressurised.


Agree fully, but I think the key here is the use of ear muffs, not a direct connection.

Earmuffs do not permit pressure build up, they just blow off excess water out the sides.

Certainly something to keep in mind for those that choose to modify their ear muffs with additional clamps and things though (much better to increase water flow with the two hose concept than it is to increase pressure by clamping the muffs).

- Darren

[Grand_Marlin]

G'day Mr Bean,

You are dead right.
The earmuffs do allow some, but not much (very little) pressure build up.... I guess it is a matter of how much is too much pressure... how weak are these seals?

Personally, if earmuffs are going to provide enough pressure to wreck these seals, there would be complaints from all over the world, and it would be a more widely known problem, and one would assume engineered out by the manufacturer.

Cheers

Pete

[blaze]

Dont know what mains pressure is but water pump seal would only be designed to with hold a safety margin over and above coolant system pressure which is only about + or - 14 psi, some as low as 7psi. If the seals wear 50% of there service life then that pressure would start to reduce.
cheers
blaze

[Mad_Turk]

I really wasint going to write anymore about whos fault it is and who should take the blame etc etc.

But let me point out few issues before going any further,because I want you to understand the case fully.

These are your own words:


Three months later (and about the third time I had used the boat since the repairs), I lost power while running the boat. On inspection of the motor it was submerged in salt water! The thermostat had failed which created excess pressure and blew out a cooling water hose. This was the second incident with th wife and kids on the boat

When trying to sell it on consignment the motor would not start 2.5hours after I had picked it up from the dealer who repaired it! The Gosford mechanic thought that the head was cracked as the oil was full of water!!! I dragged it back to Sutherland and they have repaired it again.


They have had 4 attempts at fixing this rig since I bought it in April. It has spent 4 months in the dealer's workshop... a handful of times on the water and I'm stuck paying the interest on a loan for a boat I can't use, repair or sell!!!

Are these the mechanics that you trust so much??? They fixed the boat 4 times and you still having troubles with it??? You telling me that they have done their job and fixed everything to your satisfaction???

Well Fenris think again!!!

Last night out of my good will and because I dont want to spend anymore time on this issue and get on with my life I have offered you a deal. This was for your best interest because you are losing another 5000 and I still end up with the boat that has a lemon engine (love this saying)I have to get it fixed and hopefully be able to sell it when I am going back to Turkey. Which is end of october. Now morally I would not sell this boat as it is.I would either buya new engine or get it fixed properly before I sell it. So either way I will have to spend a lot of money on it and sell something that I am comfortable with. See fenris I have nothing to loose anymore except money!!!

My offer of you giving me 5000 dollars is not an issue anymore!!!

I have one more offer for you now,give my money back(I will drive the boat to brisbane and i do not want all the money i spent to get the boat up here or to drive it down there,I just want my 30.000 back) and take this boat to whoever fixed it, do not leave that mechanics untill you know exactly what is wrong with this engine and fight for it. If they say NO take them to court. You allready mentioned that they have all the advantage, but I think you are not thinking straight.How can they have an advantage when they fix your boat and it dosent work???

See what I mean, I am trying to save both of us money. But as I understand you do not take me as serious as you should do. Do not take this as a threat,but if/when I take you to court I will get my self a place in sidney to live until this is cleared and I will make the biggest fuss about whoever fixed this engine and who ever said that there is nothing wrong with this engine and you for selling me this boat. I will get my self the best lawyer money can buy and come after all of you and mate believe me I will fight. I have done 2 years in Turkish Army,we use to wait for hours hidden in little drenches in minus 15 degrees waiting for the terrorists to come out.I do not want to tell you what happened after that,my point is patience,I have more than enough,money I have enough to take you guys down.

I will not ring any of your mechanics because I have nothing to do with them,I have bought this boat from you and I will only deal with you. It is up to you to deal with them and make them do their job.It is your money after all!!!

One more thing I would like to add. By no means I am angry anymore. I just want to go fishing!!! Thats not to much to ask for in this beatiful countyr of yours is it???



I spoke to your mechanic. #They could not tell me what condition the motor is in. #The head has not been removed as they were instructed not to investigate it any further. #Have you spoken to my mechanics yet? #Please talk to both of them and you will understand my position. #At the time of the sale I told you the boat was fine. #As the test runs prove it was. #I was upfront with the only major problem - water contamination in the oil. #You have already acknowledged that you knew about that. #Any other details were irrelevant as far as the boat sale was concerned. #I had no obligation to tell you that I'd replaced a fan belt and a rubber hose. #You beleive that the original boat dealer is covering something up... tell them that and see what kind of response you get from them. #I considered taking them to court for a refund when I first bought the boat and had problems. #My threats did not faze them... it's a tougher, longer and more expensive battle than you think. #And they have everything on their side. #When I flushed the motor incorrectly, I thought the exhaust manifold may have been corroded. #Believe it or not it is classed as a consumable part, with an expected lifespan of five years! #That's what the Boating Industry Association of NSW told me anyway. #Naturally this manifold was inspected and tested to prove that it had no faults. #But even if it was corroded they were not required to fix it as it has past its expected lifespan. #In the end they rectified all the problems I had under good faith. #Unless you have evidence of a long term problem, it's hard for me to help you. #I also had Volvo Penta specialists assess the motor before the sale (you should have that receipt by now). #They confirmed that the motor must be started before the water is turned on to prevent water getting into the motor. #It is not a simple case and I would not want to challenge two marine mechanics in court over a ten year old motor. # There are too many variables. #If you investigate your problem properly and it's cheaper than you think to fix, I'd recommend that. #As I have said previously... I sold the boat at a loss and can not help you out there. #I know you must be angry, I understand what it is like to have troubles with a new boat. #But I did everything that I could to ensure your experience would be trouble free. #I will represent myself in any court and confirm that. #I won't be fuelling this fire with expensive lawyers, so it should be a quick case. #I know you must be upset, but I think your next step should be to identify what the specific problem is and go from there. #Otherwise it is your word against mine and two independent mechanics. #Please don't get me wrong here.... if you had evidence that something has been covered up, I'd throw all my time and effort into nailing the dealers as well. #However, I believed that the boat was running well. #Ultimately, how you decide to handle this is up to you. #When I owned the boat... I did my best, I'll leave it at that. #

[whiteman]

I've had 3 great pices of advice in my time with regards to buying boats ...

1. Buy a new rig
2. If you MUST buy 2nd hand, assume the motor will need replacing within a year and negotiate accordingly (no matter how good the motor looks)
3. Ignore rule 2. and see rule 1.

Probably doesn't help The Turk at this stage!

[Grand_Marlin]

Blaze,
Mains pressure is around 100 psi / 700 kpa.

Mad Turk... was it you that called me about my Yalta that was for sale in brisbane?

Cheers

Pete

[ahoj]

Mad turk....
As i posted before save your money from courts and solicitors-- repair the motor enjoy fishing and try to get some of the money back from the owner as good will( possible Buckleys) but worth a try....
Call the whole affair a lesson and I thank you for sharing your dilema with us and I hope all of us will be a little smarter when we buy a secondhand boat especially from another state....

Ahoj

[ahoj]

Mad Turk...
Dishing out some of your TURKISH DELIGHT to the previous owner is not a clever idea......you don't want anymore problems then you already have-- live in peace...
As marlin analysed you could even lose your case ( in not so many words)
Ahoj

[blaze]

Hi Mad turk
If you have that much money mate, just fix it and go fishing, I note you make a comment about
quote
One more thing I would like to add. By no means I am angry anymore. I just want to go fishing!!! Thats not to much to ask for in this beatiful countyr of yours is it???
would like to think that its also your country too, its where you live.
too much stess invovled in trying to sort this out through the courts I feel, no one wins.
no comments on who's wrong or right
life is too short
cheers
blaze

[Geoff_Atkinson]

Wouldnt the cooling system on diesel Volvo Penta be any different than that of a petrol one?

By the sound of it, this boat has a petrol motor, either that or its the only diesel in the world with spark plugs!!!

I have a mate in WA who owned a 28' Bertram with twin petrol Volvo Penta V6's. He had to rebuild one and saved a heap by using, I think, Chev parts because either Chev made the motor for Volvo or visa versa. It might be worthwhile looking into!!

Cheers
Geoff

[Jack_Montana]

I showed this thread to my brother in law who is a Lawyer and he said Fenris is definately liable as he stated every problem the engine had before driving it all the way to Brisbane to offload it.

If this was a normal sale,why would you drive the boat all the way to Brisbane to offload it,desperation!!!

Fenris,come clean and negotiate a settlement and put it behind you,i wouldn't like a Mad Turk stalking me >:(

[Mad_Turk]

Thx for that Blaze.

But NO!!!



Hi Mad turk
If you have that much money mate, just fix it and go fishing, I note you make a comment about
quote
One more thing I would like to add. By no means I am angry anymore. I just want to go fishing!!! Thats not to much to ask for in this beatiful countyr of yours is it???
would like to think that its also your country too, its where you live.
too much stess invovled in trying to sort this out through the courts I feel, no one wins.
no comments on who's wrong or right
life is too short
cheers
blaze

[Mad_Turk]

Hey Ahoj,

Thx mate.

I will go to court.



Mad turk....
As i posted before save your money from courts and solicitors-- repair the motor enjoy fishing and try to get some of the money back from the owner as good will( possible Buckleys) #but worth a try....
Call the whole affair a lesson and #I thank you for sharing your dilema with us and I hope all of us will be a little smarter when we buy a secondhand boat especially from another state....

Ahoj

[Mad_Turk]

One more thing Blaze,

I worked for that money just like I worked for the money I bought the boat with.
And I will work harder to make more money to take him to court. I have sold my car allready to fund this matter.

Thx for the advice anyway.





Hi Mad turk
If you have that much money mate, just fix it and go fishing, I note you make a comment about
quote
One more thing I would like to add. By no means I am angry anymore. I just want to go fishing!!! Thats not to much to ask for in this beatiful countyr of yours is it???
would like to think that its also your country too, its where you live.
too much stess invovled in trying to sort this out through the courts I feel, no one wins.
no comments on who's wrong or right
life is too short
cheers
blaze

[Mad_Turk]

Thx Geoff.


Wouldnt the cooling system on diesel Volvo Penta be any different than that of a petrol one?

By the sound of it, this boat has a petrol motor, either that or its the only diesel in the world with spark plugs!!!

I have a mate in WA who owned a 28' Bertram with twin petrol Volvo Penta V6's. He had to rebuild one and saved a heap by using, I think, Chev parts because either Chev made the motor for Volvo or visa versa. It might be worthwhile looking into!!

Cheers
Geoff

[Mad_Turk]

Hi Pete,

Yes Possibly that was me.
I have seen your add here for the yalta.
Mate wish I got that boat than,wouldnt have all these problems now would I?

Cheers.


Blaze,
Mains pressure is around 100 psi / 700 kpa.

Mad Turk... was it you that called me about my Yalta that was for sale in brisbane?

Cheers

Pete

[familyman]

Turk I know its a matter of honour for you now regardless of cost but if you are not a fool ,which you clearly are not ,you must consider the downside of losing this case.The other thing is the waiting time for civil cases such as this would be after you return to Turkey unless you know a way to shortcut the system.
cheers jon

[Grand_Marlin]

Ahh well Mad Turk, you werent to know... just the way it goes sometimes.

If you get your money back, the Yalta is still here ;D

Perfect boat for your area.

Nah... just get yours sorted out.

Cheers

Pete

[Mad_Turk]

Hey jon,

Yes I did consider that but if it takes longer I will stay in australia for another year.
Plus the only way for me to find out that if I am going to loose is to try my best to win.

Serefe...





Turk I know its a matter of honour for you now regardless of cost but if you are not a fool ,which you clearly are not ,you must consider the downside of losing this case.The other thing is the waiting time for civil cases such as this would be after you return to Turkey #unless you know a way to shortcut the system.
cheers jon

[co-co]

Mate they always say diary's and paper trails are the ideal pieces of evidence in cases. Get your facts together before you start your proceedings. :-X >:(

[cooky]

mad turk - if you're not doing anything tonight / tomorrow, I 'might' have a spot on my boat for a reef or wreck trip - just looking into it at the moment. Either leave 9 or so tonight or 3 in the morning tomorrow from Tsv boat ramp.

let me know and if I've got a spare seat I'll get back to you. You seem to have proven you have the patience to go fishing in my boat (we rarely catch anything ;D)

[Mad_Turk]

Hey cooky,

I will pm you my number.

Thanks a lot.



mad turk - if you're not doing anything tonight / tomorrow, I 'might' have a spot on my boat for a reef or wreck trip - just looking into it at the moment. #Either leave 9 or so tonight or 3 in the morning tomorrow from Tsv boat ramp.

let me know and if I've got a spare seat I'll get back to you. #You seem to have proven you have the patience to go fishing in my boat (we rarely catch anything ;D)

[flyingfish]

Hi Guys,

What a very unfortunate situation. Need cool heads as two new different parties are already flicking through expensive brochures and are ready to place orders on two brand new top of the range cruisers complete with the works. These boats will be funded by two guys who strongly believe that there is great satisfaction in doing so.

I suppose it is easy for someone not emotionally involved to comment but over time when the emotions have subsided a different path may seem the right choice. #Relax, compromise, fund your own cruisers and start fishing.

Happy fishing #8-)

[stork71]

A crappy situation for all involved...Hope it all gets sorted quickly for both parties

[rajawolf]

Sure is some pain in this thread :-[ .....hope it works out to the satisfaction of both involved.

[Geoff_Atkinson]

Hey Mad Turk,

Did you go out fishing with cooky, how did you go?

Geoff

[Mad_Turk]

Hey Geoff,

Haven t heard of him. I did pm him but no answer,maybe he is not back yet. ;)

M_T

Hey Mad Turk,

Did you go out fishing with cooky, how did you go?

Geoff

[bungie]

Blaze,
Mains pressure is around 100 psi / 700 kpa.


Pete
I have come across it closer to a thousand KPA at times. For full pressure inside the leg wouldn't the tell tail be flowing ??

[slugo]

What a unfornunate situtation for both parties and hope it works out for both of you but I am sure the lawyers will love it.

This topic has now made me wonder that every time I sell something exspecialy if its mechinical I always write on the receipt (ALL FAULTS IF ANY) I had always believe that I had covered myself if there was a problem later.


Len

[Grand_Marlin]

Bungie,
Was just a comparison for the mains pressure (100 psi) vs impellor pressure (14 psi).
It varies everywhere, due to the height of the reservoirs. Head pressure = 10 kpa per metre of height.

Tell tail on a Volvo Sterndrive?

The point was made that it the pumps are designed to pump from a zero head of pressure.
If you take into account the lower flow rates due to friction loss in smaller hose lines, and the relief given by water flow going out the exhaust ports of the motor, the pressure build up from a mains pressure fed hose line will still far exceed the 14psi pressure created by the pump.

Cheers

Pete

[bungie]

Was just saying i have come across mains pressure even higher from a domestic situation, not taking the piss.

I have an outboard, I take it the sterndrive has no tell tale ??

[Grand_Marlin]

G'day Bungie,
Good to see someone not taking the piss for once... and sorry for that.

No tell tail on sterndrive ... outboard, yes.

Mains pressure, yep, sure, can be well in excess of the figures we both quoted... some places need pressure reducing valves for exactly that reason.

Cheers

Pete

[bungie]

.

:)

[cooky]

Hey Geoff,

Haven t heard of him. I did pm him but no answer,maybe he is not back yet.

M_T

sorry Turk. I posted that and haven't had a chance to look at PMs... not real smart of me, but after that post I was mucking around with computer and haven't been logged in for awhile. Still haven't read them - will get to it. Didn't go to reef in the end (weather wasn't quite good enough). Just had a trip to the island in the morning for a swim and few tasty beers, followed by more beers and lunch at Horseshoe bay and then home.

If I'm allowed out of the house for a fish again, I'll give you a bell

[Mr__Bean]

Hey Mad Turk,

Do we have an out come??????

- Darren

[Mad_Turk]

Hey,

The old engine has been taken out and new one is going in today.
Pictures and the rest of the story coming up beginning next week Darren.
As for the courtcase I am going ahead with it.

M_T


Hey Mad Turk,

Do we have an out come??????

- Darren

[ahoj]

Hi Mad Turk

When you finish ---- by then you will have learned how to look after an inboard and your boat I wish you a better fortune then with the last motor...How much is it worth to enjoy your fishing and boating without having to constantly think about your court case for possible next 9 month.. have you thought of selling your boat and possibly get your money back and live happily ever after......?

Ahoj

[Jack_Montana]

All the best with the court case Mad Turk.

If it were me,i'd be trackin the weak Ba$tard down and he wouldn't get much change out of 6 weeks in hospital,sometimes you just have to teach people a lesson.

[fishbreath]

Hell,just read all this and I'm looking to buy a boat from interstate.Scary stuff.Cant afford new,cant afford a lemon either.Will get a marine mechanic to check it out and then its in the lap of the gods.The list of dealers to buy from has been shortened though.Can anybody recommend a really good mobile marine mechanic in Sydney and or also Melbourne..This boat reeked of lemon before the time these two unfortunate guys came into the picture,should of been been fixed by those that could most afford it.But thats the holy dollar for ya...Hope I have better luck..Fishbreath

[ahoj]

Please tell me Mad Turk --- how many motor boats did you ever have apart the rowing boat in Bosporus?

Ahoj

[Mad_Turk]

Wats that mean ahoj?




watsPlease tell me Mad Turk --- how many motor boats did you ever have apart the rowing boat in Bosporus?

Ahoj

[rojac]

Hell,just read all this and I'm looking to buy a boat from interstate.Scary stuff.Cant afford new,cant afford a lemon either.Will get a marine mechanic to check it out and then its in the lap of the gods.The list of dealers #to buy from has been shortened #though.Can anybody recommend a really good mobile marine mechanic in Sydney and or also Melbourne..This boat reeked of lemon #before the time these two unfortunate guys came into the picture,should of been been fixed by those that could most afford it.But thats the holy dollar for ya...Hope I have better luck..Fishbreath

Getting a basic marine inspection of motor will not do you much good if the plates or other internals are RS.

We bought a swiftcraft with a 70 HP Johnson, did the right thing and had a mechanic check it out, said it was ok so it was bought. Several months later the plates went and seized the motor, cost recon powerhead + labour + $ 3,500.

Lesson, spend the money and have the plates inspected; if they are ok then you have peace of mind, if they are not then negotiate on the price. If the seller is not prepared to negotiate them go elsewhere. Better to spend several hundred dollars then buy a lemon motor which will cost big $$$ and potentially leave you in a dangerous situation out at sea.

[onerabbit]

MT,

Ahoj seems to like throwing in the odd antagonistic comment.

Dont think I would rile the MT, Ahoj, he's got enough already.

Muzz

[billfisher]

Rojac,

What are the "plates" you refer to? I haven't heard of such a term.

[DaveSue_Fishos_Two]

Mad Turk I hope all goes well for you with the new motor and the court case.
Ignore the smart alec comments some people put on here mate, and bloody good on you for sticking to your guns.

Cheers
Dave

[Arlon]

"Nice clean boat for $??k just a little thunderstorm damage (Rita)" #Run Homer, #RUN..

After Larry, you're going to be seeing more than a few "nice, clean" boats for sale. Be very careful when you put your money into a used boat after a big storm blows through...

[Grand_Marlin]

.... I guess there will be a few boats recently relocated from Innisfail to Mt Isa... :D

[revs57]

Cheeky bugger Pete ;D ;D ;D ;D

[rojac]

Rojac,

What are the "plates" you refer to? I haven't heard of such a term.

The exhaust plates, there's an inner, outer and cover(?) the inner ones corroded on ours, tinny pin prick and let seawater into the motor.,,,,,bye bye powerhead.

[RobSee]

.... I guess there will be a few boats recently relocated from Innisfail to Mt Isa... #:D

that's not funny...

[deek]

Mad Turk, Here's the web address for the Department of Fair Trading in NSW. Hope all goes well.
http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/

[Lone_Wolf]

M_T,

We are all wondering where you ended up with your boat. If you ended up inside for killing him, is there anything we can bring you? ;)

[schrammy79]

Hey,

The old engine has been taken out and new one is going in today.
Pictures and the rest of the story coming up beginning next week Darren.
As for the courtcase I am going ahead with it.

M_T


Hey Mad Turk,

Do we have an out come??????



- Darren

Mad Turk, do you have a update for us yet Im lloking forward to hearing about the outcome and how the boats going now plus the pics,
Anyway all the best ,

Chris

[mcgilld]

i have had horror problems with mt e tec engines and #sort leagal advice its has cost me nearly 25 000 in leagals and engineering experts to prove my case and where still not in court so my advice if you are cash strapped and want to save write it off buy a knew one i expect it is going to cost another 50 000 on top for court so it takes time 8 months so far court hearing not expected for approx 6 months alot to prepare but if your a person whom like me has been ripped off then why let them away with it, if you have money fight them don t let them away with it .

Hey fishy - can you tell us briefly abour your e-tec problems??

[MTS_-_fish_magnet]

Sue as soon as possible. At least you will get your motor replaced as a minimum.

It may depend on what he WROTE when he sold it. If it says anywhere: "perfect condition" then you probably have a case otherwise you may have a case Caveat Emptor (buyer beware).

Go to Slater and Gordon or similar and go for the throat...good luck.

[major-defect]

Go get em Mad Turk sue the hell out of the bugger.

[Matt_F]

Yet another Volvo Penta horror story.

[fishin_till_late]

Hey i recognise this thread ::)

Did anybody ever hear anything from madturk????
I know his boat was "alledgedly" for sale on ebay.
I hope it all turned out for the best and if annoyone knows waht happened dont be afraid to let us know here. Im sure there are many other ausfishers curious of what happened.

cheers jono

[catchy_fishy]

Still wondering ??

[ahoj]

Mad Turk

If your boat is ok now and you are satisfied and feel as though you have no more hastles SHUT UP and go fishing and enjoj your life.. court cases will destroy you this man even if found quilty will only afford to pay you 1$ per week it will cost you 45c to enter to your bank account plus the cost of your solicitor HEE HAAA If they don't have money --you get f--k all and every month your solicitor will send him a letter to remind him he is behind in his payment at solicitors cost anything from 45$ a pop...
Look after yourself Turk

Ahoj

[SECRET_AGENT]

Dam!!! #I would be interested in hearing the outcome. Hope it works out fine for you. Please keep us informed.

[garpe]

M T
Try to write everything up in a diary as i,m pretty sure this is classed as a legal document as i was told when i had problems with an ex. I got touched on a boat from a mates freind and it's not a nice feeling, weak as p'''s actually. Try talking to him first and good luck, hope your on the water soon.
cheers