Old Flares

[gunna]

Got a set of flares past their use by date. How do you people usually get rid of these ??

[marlinqld]

local fire brigade or MAritime saftey worth a call, they should be able to help you

Mike

[nelton87]

Gunna,
Normally most of the local VMR or Coast Guard in Qld accept them for disposal, I dropped mine of last week at VMR Raby Bay.
Cheers
nelton

[gunna]

Thanks guys. I will drop them in to Mooloolaba Coastguard.

[frankj]

Sent mine to the Salvos, they were a bit tight on the waist now anyway.

[Cheech]

There is only one place I keep my old flares. With my new flares. The only instability you have with old flares is for them not working rather than going off by themselves. If I ever need to use flares, I have twice as many. That is a good thing if you ask me.

There seems to be a misconception (at least I think it is a misconception) that you are not allowed to have out of date flares on your boat. There is no law against owning out of date flares. A month ago I was checked by the water police and they had no issue with my second set. They know I had a second set because I mistakenly gave them the old set first when checking the dates.

But each to their own. If at all concerned, store them in a different location on the boat.

Cheech

[Dignity]

I'm with Cheech - keep at least 1 set of expired flares, always get rid of the third set though as I did try them out once and only 1 out of 3 worked although they packag them better these days so thay may last a lot longer.

[hussy]

give them to dads navy , they use them for demos , on training days. hubby

[Fishin_Dan]

Bugger - You just missed Riverfire ;D

[charleville]

T
There seems to be a misconception (at least I think it is a misconception) that you are not allowed to have out of date flares on your boat. There is no law against owning out of date flares. A month ago I was checked by the water police and they had no issue with my second set. They know I had a second set because I mistakenly gave them the old set first when checking the dates.


This topic has arisen a few times over the past year or so. I recall the salient information was that keeping out-of-date flares may be a contravention of some mining legislation but not boating and fisheries legislation (subject to an up-to-date set being available on the boat, of course).

Common sense seems to apply in that keeping an immediate past set as a back-up, still in their plastic wrapping, is a sensible idea and not frowned on by any authorities whereas the set before that probably should be discarded. After all they could be up to six years old and perhaps there is some chance of leakage as time rolls by that much. However, if it is the case that keeping out-of-date flares is relevant to mining rules rather than marine rules then fisheries and boating inspectors and the police may not have any jurisdiction re same when they inspect your boat.

I hasten to add my disclaimer that I have absolutley no legal nor administrative knowledge of such rules but simply seek to explain that this was the gist of previous discussion about the topic on Ausfish.

[blaze]

just to add my 2 bobs worth.
I keep mine and if I needed to use flares they would be the first used.
cheers
blaze

[charleville]

they were a bit tight on the waist now anyway.

Same here - especially the bottle green ones. # ;D ;D ;D

(only guys in their late fifties will know what we are talking about. ;D ;D ;D)

[Grand_Marlin]

G'day Guys,

Gelsec & Myself did a lot of research into this topic about 6 months ago.

Boaties were being fined $150 for having out of date flares in their posession ... not just on the boat ... it is illegal to even store them at home.

This comes from the Mines & Energy Act, and yes it is true.

The Police have full power in enforcing this, as it is law.

The Police had been to some training course that highlighted this fact, so they began to act on it.

If you want a light read ... look it up at www.legislation.qld.gov.au

So...

We were appalled at the fact that a set of out of date flares couldnt be kept as spares, so long as you have a current set on board as well.

We rang RFD to ask the manufacturer's opinion on keeping / storing out of date flares. They advise that the current aluminium tube containers are fine for up to 6 years, so long as they are kept dry and not damaged.
The older cardboard packages are the ones that can deteriorate and self ignite.
They also stated that it was not recommended to keep the aluminium cased flares beyond 6 years - not because they will self ignite, but more that they would not work.

We rang Maritime Safety Queensland and spoke to their head inspector.
He agreed totally with us that the flares should be able to be carried, and himself was not aware that Police were fining boaties ... he stated that their patrols were not fining boaties for this practice.

The inspector from MSQ rang the Police Commissioner in Brisbane, who also agreed that the practice of carrying out of date flares was acceptable and sensible ...

A "Gentlemans Agreement" between the Police and MSQ was made that boaties would no longer be fined for carrying "immediate" out of date flares.

The agreement stated that:

Immediate out of date flares, means a set that has just expired, and will be between 3 years and no more than 6 years old.

A set of current flares is dated to last for 3 years.

Once they reach 6 years old, they must be disposed of.

BUT....

There is nothing in writing to say this, as the legislation would have to be changed to allow it ... which in reality is not going to happen - especially in the short term.
As I said, it is a gentlemans agreement, or implied agreement - and for the Police or MSQ to put it in writing is acting outside the law.

BE AWARE and BE WARNED

Even though the authorities have stated that they will not fine boaties for having immediate out of date flares - it is still illegal to have them.

If an accident was somehow caused by out of date flares (boat catching fire, someone burnt etc) and it ended up in court ...
You will be totally liable, as the law states that you may not possess out of date flares.

As said above, most VMR or CoastGuard services will take them, as will TAFE for training courses. (this places them in direct contravention of the workplace health & safety act, but they still do it :D )

If you have trouble getting them to take the flares - call The Department of Mines & Energy or MSQ - they should also have an avenue for disposing of them.

(funny how they all tell you that you MUST have them, but it seems to be your problem to get rid of them) ::)


Man, this is not the light reading I expected to be doing at 6.30 on a Sunday morning ;D

Cheers

Pete

[bungie]

How many of us have even fired up a flare ?
Go down the park and fire an out of date one up to see what to do, and understand how much burning phosphorus drops off the flare to your feet/deck.

[garpe]

Hi all
Can you legally let a flare off in the park or do you keep an eye out while your doing it. I suppose your stuffed if you get caught carrying out of date flares and in more trouble for letting them off ?
Like to know
cheers

[saphire]

they were a bit tight on the waist now anyway.

Same here - especially the bottle green ones. # ;D ;D ;D

(only guys in their late fifties will know what we are talking about. #;D ;D ;D)

OK... Chareleville.....Now Im curious to know what you are talking about.
Let us young folk in on the joke.

Ive never fired a flare before. Would like to fire an out of date flare in the park it would be fun and great practice. The only problem is that I think its illegal to do that. There are laws against fire works so wouldnt lighting a flare in the park come under the same legislation?

Ok Im talking crap here but wouldnt it be fun if everyone got their old flares and we all had a flare party in the park to say goodbye to expired flares. How cool would that be. Yep...Im middle aged but a child at heart.

[charleville]

Gelsec & Myself did a lot of research into this topic about 6 months ago.


Hey Pete - This is a great service that you have done for the guys and gals on this site. Great summary - Many thanks. :)

[gunna]

Thats all good info. Thanks all. I actually have 3 sets - 2 are still in date and one out of date. Don't want to carry three sets on board.

[charleville]

they were a bit tight on the waist now anyway.

Same here - especially the bottle green ones. # ;D ;D ;D

(only guys in their late fifties will know what we are talking about. #;D ;D ;D)

OK... Chareleville.....Now Im curious to know what you are talking about.
Let us young folk in on the joke.


Oh nothing much Saphire. # ::) Circa 1970, flares were the fashion item of the day. #Flared trousers, that is. # :o

Some of us who thought that we were real fashion aficionados of the day #;D would sometimes wear some interesting colours. #I recall bottle green being a favourite. #I had a pair. #::) #Some of the stuff that I used to wear used to horrify my poor old Mum who came from the bush and
regarded unfavorably the idea of men wearing bright colours. #;D #- and flared pants also. #;D ;D

I remember giving those bottle green pants away to Lifeline or the Salvos or similar. #I wish that I had them now - the fabric was soft and they would have been really good for wiping the mullet gut off my hands on the boat. # ;D ;D ;D

[moondancer]

I'm amazed how complex an issue this really is!!!! I've always had the view that as long as I have an in-date set, old ones are fine...OK under some legislaive areas, but not others!! Confusion reigns!! /me

[seatime]

Gelsec & Myself did a lot of research into this topic about 6 months ago.


Hey Pete - This is a great service that you have done for the guys and gals on this site. #Great summary - Many thanks. #:)

Hi guys

Pete (Grand Marlin) is spot on, it is an offense under the Explosives Act 1999 to possess expired explosives, which marine distress flares fall under.

I have a letter from Captain John Watkinson, General Manager, Maritime Safety Qld, dated 20 March 2006, and it states;

'Maritime Safety Queensland's position on this issue is that flares, once expired, should be removed from a vessel and be disposed of appropriately. This is consistent with the advise provided at pages 22 and 23 of the "Guide to Recreational Boating and Fishing in Queensland'"

Also from information I have recieved, at least 2 insurance companies will refuse claims if expired flares are carried, in the past carrying expired flares has been viewed as 'unseaworthy'.

It is a regulatory requirement for manufacturers to produce flares with a 6 year life span, a 3 year expiry is then applied so that the flares are considered in absolutely top condition for the first 3 yrs.
It's an added safety margin, it wasn't meant for flares to be carried for the extra 3 years beyond their expiry date.

regards
Steve.

[Argle]

In light of what insurance companies would/could do I think I will be taking my recently expired flares to the VMR. I would like to be able to carry them as a back up but if it could void my insurance in the event of an accident its not a risk Im willing to take. Seems stupid though :-?

Cheers and Beers
Scott

[onerabbit]

Perhaps we could contact our local VMRs & see if a training day can be organized for those who have never fired a flare (myself included).
That way it could be done under supervision of those more educated & it would be a great way to get rid of all those old flares.

Just a thought,

Muzz

[Grand_Marlin]

G'day Gelsec,

I forgot to mention the insurance bit ...

I think our conclusion was - for the sake of $50 every 3 years it is far better to just dispose of the old flares - that way there cant be any problems.

Cheers

Pete

[Grand_Marlin]

Moondancer - dont be confused - take it as gospel that out of date flares are illegal and no matter what anyone says or implies - if the $hit hits the fan, law says you cant have them in your possession.



Letting off flares except in an emergency situation is illegal ... fun, but illegal :-X

Cheers

Pete

[Homer_Jay]

In the last boat i bought there was a set of four flares that are dated back in the 80's. I just put them in the back of the shed not knowing where to get rid of them.
Sounds like i better take them and get rid of them. Now i am going to worried that they will go off in the car as i am bouncing down the road!!!!!!!!!!!
Bit like how i was the first time i drove a car with an airbag!!!! ;D

[FishOn]

I have used some in showing those who come onto my boat what needs to happen in the event of xyz . . .

That's been easy as we are on a larger block with a lot of trees etc around.

Kind regards Trevor

[Dignity]

In the last boat i bought there was a set of four flares that are dated back in the #80's. I just put them in the back of the shed not knowing where to get rid of them.
Sounds like i better take them and get rid of them. Now i am going to worried that they will go off in the car as i am bouncing down the road!!!!!!!!!!!
Bit like how i was the first time i drove a car with an airbag!!!! #;D

dump them in a bucket of water and forget about them for a couple of weeks - will be stuffed by then although I reckon they got a snowballs chance in hell of igniting now

sam

[Homer_Jay]

Thanks sam. Good idea i might go do that now

[litenup]

You got that right, both times. If you are at Sunnycoast for new years eve, lots of parashute flares seem to appear. Then you get local authorities warning of the fines for letting them go, and inconvience for rescue groups for false alarms. But don't they go off. Had the parashute come down in the yard where I was visiting, they were still very hot, and would start a fire if they landed in wrong place. Cheers Pete.

[1975fflh]

Down here in Gods own country (NSW South Coast) I was advised by the Coast Guard that I should keep the older flares for back up for up to 12 months past expiry.

[Jeremy]

you can test fire old flares at soccer matches. Everyone else does ;D ;D

Jeremy

[seatime]

#I once let off a hand held to show the kids how bright they are. It was in a NSW country town during their annual show, when the fireworks show was on. Didn't think anyone would notice, how wrong was I!
The glow off the flare lit up quite a wide area, and put out copious amounts of smoke.
They're also difficult to extinguish if you change your mind.
Anyway, I didn't get caught, but a lot of people mentioned it the next day, and a council officer was enquiring who was responsible as there was a $100,000 fine for lighting a flare during a total fire ban.

regards
Steve.

[murf]

#I once let off a hand held to show the kids how bright they are. It was in a NSW country town during their annual show, when the fireworks show was on. Didn't think anyone would notice, how wrong was I!

They're also difficult to extinguish if you change your mind.


regards
Steve.

;D ;D ;D ;D
the thought of you trying to put outa flare has me in stiches :D
have tried them on cracker night out on the farm and the ammount of smoke is unreal
Murf