Poll the compulsory wearing of PFDs

[mangomick]

As I posted earlier the NMSC is looking at making the wearing of PFDs compulsory.
Have your say at this poll and I will send them a message advising them of the poll at this site.
Who knows they may take the time to have a look ;)
I know it is probably like peeing into the wind as far as trying to sway bureacrats when they have their minds intent on bringing in some potentially over zealous legislation but who knows.
Heres your chance to have your say
Cheers
Mangomick

[snapperm8]

generally i would say it should be our own choose, how uncomftable wearing pfd's whilst fishing in summer be pretty bloody hot aswell, and if a parent think there kid might jump out the side whilst going along then crack a pfd on him ;)

cheers dave

[Big_unit]

Skippers discretion - was my vote, but further to that is at the passengers discretion.

I still think all kids should wear one when under way, thats the rule in my boat and has been for a while.

Cheers
James

[Duyz72]

The old style PFD's are big and bulkly and really a bit too much for all the time.
Yes for crossing a bar, and yes when things are getting a bit hairy.
But I would like to see those slim line ones which the pro's wear get a bit cheaper for using all the time.

I would wear those types whenever in the boat and and also load up with the larger PFD when crossing the bars etc.

[snapperm8]

I agree duyz

I think most people have enough common sense to realise to stick a pfd on or not. And most pfd's are really bulkey. And unless your rich getting 4 or more of those pfd's that skiers use and stuff is quiet a bit of money outa the back pocket.

[finga64]

Horses for causes in my books.
Also saying that we always wear one whilst crossing bars etc and kids under 14 wear one like it or not whilst we're motoring and whilst in QLD kids under 12 have one on all times full stop..

[DR]

commonsense should be part of it.

the under 4.7mt rule for under 12 is rediculous,i would prefer have my daughter in my 4.3 webster without a jacket, than a lot of the 4.7 that are around.the boat length has bugger all to do with how safe the boat is. i don't believe anyone should be forced to wear one in rivers, even under 12yo. as the rule is now, if you are under 12 you must wear one unless anchored or tied up somewhere. it is illegal to drift without one. I don't object to them wearing one while actually under way, but if you mostly drift, like i do then it makes for a pretty uncomfortable day for the kids.

should be compulsory for bar crossings, & rough seas for all size boats.

no such thing as a one size fits all..

[Fat Chilli]

I love how this is all geared toward the recreational boatie, what about ferries, cruise ships etc. they never have drownings do they? :-X (did I hear you say "A Titanic proportion of historical drownings"...never) If preventing/reducing the risk of drowning is the ultimate goal with the NMSC as stated in their discussion paper then it should apply to ferries and cruise ships also..... ;) Lets see them tackle that one...Just wouldn't happen!

Personally - I think the current QLD regs are sufficient along with better education and obviously at the Skippers discretion, it's all about "Duty of Care", which applies in all situations; however, it is open to interpretation.

[PinHead]

The response re: ferries and cruise ships is that by law they must carry life rings and lifeboats.

The inflatable PFD1's are not big and bulky..I cannot see the problem with them.

As for kids wearing them...If you are not in favor of kids wearing them at all times in a moving boat then I doubt you pleace much value on their life...do you make them wear seatbelts or not?

No one wants a tragedy but the bloody things do happen and quickly and without warning.

I only allow 1 child at a time on my boat as I only have one kid's size PFD1...and that child MUST have that PFD on before I even untie the boat. If the crap does come down I want to know that the child has a good chance of surviving same.

[seabug]

As a percentage of what people spend on the whole boating package and running costs,are kids good lifejackets really so expensive? :o :o :o

And the PDF will last for years. :) :) :)
I guess it just depends on your priority. :-/ :-/ :-/

Regards
Seabug

[Fat Chilli]

Pinhead - realise that ::), the comment was in jest as to the actual wearing of PFD's on these vessels. They must also carry a PFD for all passengers.

I also agree that cost should not be a factor, we only have one life, no dress rehearsals.

Many people forget or don't know that the inflatable PFD's must be inspected annually and the air cartridge replaced annually. Approximately $25 per inflatable PFD.

[marlinqld]

In my boat:

1/ Crossing a bar everyone dons a life jacket

2/ Children Wear them at all times.
3/ If conditions get rough I ask all to don a lifejcaket when we are underway
4/ If you dont like my rules you dont ride on my boat.

Mike

[Kiktz]

My Dad adn I regularly take my Neices and Nephew out in the boat fishing the Nerang and the boardwater. The boat is an Allison 195.
Yes we out life jackets on the Kids when under power and it simply isn't worth the loss if something were to happen............... wven though all 3 can swim.

As for Bar crossing and outside, I would hate to think that it was change that we have to don a pdf 100% of the time. Some days its as flat as a tack.
I ticked only for Bar crossings and for kids, but in saying that there has been a few times that I have made mates put them on........... well not made but when they see putting one on you get dont any arguements.......... ;D

I think Common Sence has to come into play, even though we are having this law ans that law thrown at us these days cause quite simply common sence is becoming a lacking trate for some..............

Aj

[Big_unit]

A lot of valid points have been made here, its seems most peoole have the commonsense and nouse required to survive in the event of a mishap.

Here you go people, some prices those inflatable jackets.

Adult Inflatable PFD1
- Manual - $95 + postage

Adult Inflatable PFD1
- Auto - $105 + postage

Child Inflatable PFD1
- Auto with harness - $269 + postage

If you want one or more just shoot me a pm.

[cooky]

I'd say there would be a LOT of boats on the market pretty quickly if this law was passed. I know mine would be.
I would say these boats would be located anywhere north of Mackay. North Qld, Darwin, WA.
In summer (6 months at least of the year) - it is so bloody hot that a shirt feels like TOO much.

I won't take my kids out in summer because I put PFDs on them and once I had to take one off my small son (2 yrs) because he looked like he was going to overheat. Yes - I was anchored in a river, but still.....

If a leisure time interest isn't comfortable, then why do it?

Probably the same reason that wearing a full face helmet in my car might be a bloody safe option, but there has to be a point...... :-X

[haggis]

my wife wears hers all the time as she cannot swim .
but if you end up in the water its not the swimming I worry about .
maybe i should also as the new boat still leaks even after being fixed.
12 liters an hour . hopefully they will get it right this time as I have had to point out
where the leaks are . please water test the boat this time .
cheers fae haggis :( :'(

[honda900]

I agree with most comments on the kids, #however would like to add that once in the water they panic and wear themselves out very quickly. #My rule is simple under 12 jacket on before the boat hits the drink (for all kids), #I have however bought 3 pfd1 kids jackets to suit them at a cost of about $70.00 each for the good quality nice fitting jackets.

Personally I don't have a drama wearing a jacket over a bar crossing I think its a good thing, #you just never know what your gonna find no matter how many times you have done it before, complacency being more the issue.

Regards
Honda

[dfox]

Hasnt there been incidents of boat roll overs where the crew have been trapped and drowned in the boat's cabin because they had lifejackets on?
I think once again its a matter of what vessel, the conditions and whose on board that determines when a jacket should or should not be worn.
Its a case of common sense, no laws will give people common sense...foxy

[PinHead]

Hasnt there been incidents of boat roll overs where the crew have been trapped and drowned in the boat's cabin because they had lifejackets on?
I think once again its a matter of what vessel, the conditions and whose on board that determines when a jacket should or should not be worn.
Its a case of common sense, no laws will give people common sense...foxy

Good point foxy..maybe the inflatables would be more suited in case this happened.

To be honest, I have never even asked any guests on my boat if they can swim.

[Stumpy-USA2]

Over here wearing PFD's has been a law for the past several years (30+). In Alabama anytime the boat is under way by means of a gas powered engine all people in the boat must be wearing a PFD. If you are caught without one the owner/operator of the vessel is issued one citation per person not wearing one. Also the person not wearing one is issued a citation. Once the gas engine is shut off you can go without. Also if you are within 800 ft. of the water discharge of a dam you must wear a PFD at "all" times. There are so many boats on the water these days, with many traveling at high speeds, that wearing a life jacket is just common sense. I always wear one while running around on the lake and make anyone with me wear one whether they like it or not. After all I'm the one responsible for their safety.

Casey

[DR]

Hasnt there been incidents of boat roll overs where the crew have been trapped and drowned in the boat's cabin because they had lifejackets on?
I think once again its a matter of what vessel, the conditions and whose on board that determines when a jacket should or should not be worn.
Its a case of common sense, no laws will give people common sense...foxy

Good point foxy..maybe the inflatables would be more suited in case this happened.

To be honest, I have never even asked any guests on my boat if they can swim.
no wonder you're so paranoid about life jackets ;D

[backhoe]

Have been wearing an auto inflate jacket whilst fishing alone recently and it isn't a problem at all. Don't even know it is on. Have even started wearing it when out with mates now as the extra security comes with very few negatives. Having lived in the tropics for a number of years I really don't think the problem stated with the jacket being too hot is a real problem. It is bloody hot with or without a jacket and the yoke style jackets don't heat you up much at all.
As for the cost how much does your boat, tackle, rego, insurance, bait, etc. cost??? An extra $300 for 3 inflatable jackets isn't that much is it?
It may be true that people have been trapped in overturned boats with jackets on but how many have been saved by having them on? It is always possible to find an exception/problem but the laws have to cater to the overall risk to benefit ratio.
Does anyone remember the debate when compulsory EPIRBs came in. Who would now think about going out without an EPIRB even if it wasn't the law?
It's a pity though that we can't let people make rules/legislate for their own situation but unfortunatly there is a big population of people out there that were standing behind the door when commonsense was handed out.
Kev

[seatime]

That's it backhoe, the rules need to be defined for everyone, the irresponsible and safety uneducated included.
Some people have to be made to comply, because if it's left up to their own judgement, well, you'll see them on the 6 o'clock news soon enough.
Also, commonsense or lack of it is a poor defence in a judicial hearing.

rgds

[cooky]

offshore fishing maybe, but are you kidding for river, etc. make sure everone can swim.

of course in the states (US) it's law - have you ever bought a late model american car - they've got more stickers plastered all over them than an icecream truck - warning you about everything - don't drive this vehicle drunk, etc.

It's to stop litigation, not lives.

I can tell you now, that wearing one up here would be ridiculous. what sort of f**ked up world are going to end up living in?
people die, people do stupid things - too bad - live with it.

[kneebone]

Has anyone thought of the health risks involved by wearing a PDF all the time. Heat Stroke can set in very quickly. I agree that off shore can bar crossings can be hazardous and this comes down to the safety responsabilities of the boat owner, but as for us boaties that only go boating in rivers and esturies, give us a break. What next a smoking ban.

[cooky]

no smoking, no drinking, no people under age of 12, no people over age of 65, no disabled folk, must have full foam flotation, must wear suncream, must wear a scuba tank, must have a liferaft on any boat above 4m..........

I'm sure it will be interesting in 10 years time. >:(

[Big_unit]

Here is another poll the same as this that I ran, its only a very small board.

http://www.##############.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=188


Cheers
James

[Stumpy-USA2]

Here's a little bit of a reason to wear a PFD while under way. Alabama just had its 13th boating "fatality" of the year. The person killed was running the lake he lived on when he struck an underwater object. He was ejected from the boat and drowned. He was not wearing a PFD. There have been close to 60 "accidents" this year in the state.

Studies over here have shown that a person who is ejected from a boat moving at just 30mph hits the water with the force of jumping from the third floor of a building onto concrete. I'm a good swimmer and I seriously doubt that I could survive that and still swim to safety. Also the average boat these days will run in the 50 to 60mph range.

I will however say this...It should be left up to a persons judgment whether to wear on or not, but those not wearing one should have to forfeit their insurance coverage. If you choose to take that chance, you shouldn't have a safety net.

Casey

[Geoff_Atkinson]

Like seatbelts in cars, I believe they should be compulsory for kids while under way, that's the rule in my boat anyway. As for adults, that is at my discretion, I am responsible for my passengers safety so they do as I say when it comes to safety.

Geoff

[Fast_Freddie]

The problem with common sense is, its so uncommon these days.

Everyday, I still see kids in cars not wearing seatbelts. Every-single-day I see this!

I agree with Fat_Chilli in that the QLD regs are fine by me. Hey, it is what I do on on my boat as a normality!

PDFs are a good thing and if the conditions are such that you think, just for one instant,
"Hmm . . . Maybe I should put a PDF on . . "

Then DO IT! If you don't, you are a moron and shouldn't be in charge of vessel!

But that is just my opinion,

Fred

[DR]

they should be compulsory for kids while under way don't have a problem with this, it's just that the Qld definition of underway is if you are not anchored or tied up to something that is fixed... underway includes drifting, even in a river, that i have a problem with. Some kind of commonsense has to be allowed..

[seatime]

down south, Victoria or Tassie, use the term "under power" instead of "underway" in their legislation, this eliminates drifting from the requirements.

[DR]

as read this it is not compulsory to have pfds as safety equip if in rivers..but they still state that under 12s still have to wear one ::)http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/qt/MSQ.nsf/ReferenceLookup/rec_safety_equipment.pdf/$file/rec_safety_equipment.pdf

[seatime]

True, but the boat must be equipped with grab rails or a becketed line or some way of holding on if you're in the water, and have a certificate of positive floatation. A COPF could cost a couple of $K.

[DR]

you made me go & read it again..
i should have put my glasses on, my mistake.misread one of the ORs as one or the other