Australian Marine Centre

[Ratman]

Has anyone had dealings with Australian Marine Centre, 3491 Pacific Highway, Springwood. They called me asking if I wished to place my Quintrex Reefraider on consignment with them, promising it will sell quickly. They were trolling the Trading Post and picked up my add. Any comments appreciated. (this is not an advert)

Mick

[mako_5.2]

Be wary of consignment deals. I sold a car on consignment through a car yard 9 years ago. A mate called me up and said see you sold your car. No. A mate of his had seen it driving around for three days. Rang the yard and they said we were about to call you we just sold it. Went and picked up my cheque which bounced. The only thing that saved me was the bank had cleared the cheque early and put a lot of pressure on the yard to come up with the money. I would rather see a boat or car sit in my yard for six months than go through that again.

[Smelly]

mako - that's awful - time to pay the yard a visit one night... 8-)

Address?

[Sea-Dog]

Hey Ratman, I have a purchase agreement that they emailed to me today for a boat I'm interested in.

There are some Really nasty conditions in there.

I don't think I will end up making the deal with them.... just depends. :-/

They want a 3 grand holding deposit on a boat. :o

In the conditions of contract it says....... 'that if I fail to punctually observe and perform all my obligations hereunder, all monies paid and/or trade-in provided by way of deposit shall, at the opinion of the vendor, be forfeited absolutely to the vendor who shall thereupon have power without notice to cancel the sale or at its option to sue the purchaser for the balance of the purchase price....'

In other words.... give us a big deposit, and if we think you are taking too long to get your act together - you lose your deposit. >:(


You might also want to send a PM to Grand Marlin - Pete.

He gave me some interesting info on Australian Marine Centre and consignment sales.... :-?

[finga64]

dodgy brothers eh :-?

[marlinqld]

nothin' suss................................ :-/

[marlinqld]

nothin' suss................................ :-/

[Fast_Freddie]

Has anyone had dealings with Australian Marine Centre, #3491 Pacific Highway, Springwood. #They called me asking if I wished to place my Quintrex Reefraider on consignment with them, promising it will sell quickly. #They were trolling the Trading Post and picked up my add. #Any comments appreciated. #(this is not an advert)

Mick

Hey Mick,
Heed the warning of others here mate!

I have a friend who had his boat on consignment with a yard here in Brisbane a year or so back. (NOT THE ONE YOU MENTIONED THOUGH)
The mate wanted $15,000 for the rig and put this figure on the consignment paperwork which was duly signed by the Sales Manager.

They had it for 4 weeks, not one phone call to the mate in that time.

We went fishing in week 5, up in Hervey Bay, and as we are plodding out of the marina . . . yep, you guessed it . . . the mates boat is coming into the marina!

He phoned the yard right then and there and asked if the boat had sold and they said,
“Not had any takers mate. Still sitting here in the yard but we will call you if there is any action on it.”

We turn around and speak to the blokes in my mate’s boat, on the ramp. One of them proudly says he bought it 3 weeks earlier, just in time for this holiday, and paid $12,000 for it. We didn’t press the guy to much because he was really peed-off at dropping his new mobile over side earlier.

The mate gets in his car and drives back to Brisbane, goes into the yard and asks about his boat. A bag load of BS was forthcoming from the ‘Rat with a gold tooth’ masquerading as a Salesman and after about 40 minutes the Sales Manager appears apologizing profusely and says,
“Your boat has actually been sold and is being water tested over to Straddie and back right now. Come back tomorrow and I should have some news for you.”

The mate gets sick of the whole saga and says,
“No mate, I’ll come back in 2 hours and either you produce my boat or pay me the $15,000 as we agreed to on this bit of paper with your signature on it.”

2 hours later the mate rocks up, with another bloke in tow, and find the Sales Manager deep in conversation with the owner of the yard. Before the Owner gets a word out the mate says,
“Before you say anything let me introduce you to my Boss from the ACCC.”

Money transferred in full – mate happy. The yard got an invitation to have a coffee with the Office of Fair Trading a week later. . . mmmm, wonder how they heard about it? [smiley=rifle.gif]

True story.

[Ratman]

Many thanks for the input ausfishos. Trading Post will do just fine. Mick

[boatboy50]

Hey Guys,

I have no ties to AMC, but just wanted to point out that not one of the above posts are directly aimed at them.

I'd like to see a new business like that given a fair playing field, rather than slandered on because of a few bad eggs in the industry.

The above just goes to show, don't trust anyone, and when in a situation like a consignment deal, keep a good eye on your boat and don't just leave it and forget it.

There is some honest businesses out there which would not treat customers unfairly.

Regards

Darren

[austmarine]

I have personally sold ,many boats, new & second hand for/to many buyers & sellers. Not ONE have complained!!

I agree there are a few dodgy yards out there

A deposit is required to build a boat, if you are not 100% comitted to taking delivery of that boat that is being manufactured to your specs, DO NOT commit to purchasing that boat.

If you are signing a contract to have a house built, will the builder commence B4 a deposit is down???, i don;t think so

The purchase agreement is a standard legal form, used to weed out the real buyers

look forward to providing the service to our existing customers who appreciate good values




Hey Ratman, I have a purchase agreement that they emailed to me today for a boat I'm interested in.

There are some Really nasty conditions in there.

I don't think I will end up making the deal with them.... just depends. :-/

They want a 3 grand holding deposit on a boat. :o

In the conditions of contract it says....... 'that if I fail to punctually observe and perform all my obligations hereunder, all monies paid and/or trade-in provided by way of deposit shall, at the opinion of the vendor, be forfeited absolutely to the vendor who shall thereupon have power without notice to cancel the sale or at its option to sue the purchaser for the balance of the purchase price....'

In other words.... give us a big deposit, and if we think you are taking too long to get your act together - you lose your deposit. >:(


You might also want to send a PM to Grand Marlin - Pete.

He gave me some interesting info on Australian Marine Centre and consignment sales.... :-?

[FNQCairns]

By golly Austmarine with a contract like that I could never consider myself a real buyer and to date in my entire life I have never handed REAL money over under a contract like that. That includes my new boat commissioning and purchase a few months ago.

cheers fnq

[finga]

I'd like to see dates and definite time periods laid out.

This ''that if I fail to punctually observe and perform all my obligations hereunder, all monies paid and/or trade-in provided by way of deposit shall, at the opinion of the vendor, be forfeited absolutely to the vendor who shall thereupon have power without notice to cancel the sale or at its option to sue the purchaser for the balance of the purchase price....'

This is basically a lot of trollop to me.

Who defines what punctually means?? Why not put a definite time period in like 14 calendar days etc in the contract??
Opinion of the vendor....who really cares what his opinion is?? Definite stipulations and conditions should be in the contract.

Without notice.....what a load of crap.

So in the worse case scenario I can trade in my Bertie (say $10k) on a tinny (say $11). I sign the paper work and go to get the extra $1k and if I come back in 10 minutes it may be too late. The buggers keep the Bertie and I get didly squat.
That's just plain crap >:(

Any quote or contract I've had to enter into when I worked stipulated time periods for everything from starting, finishing, payments, deviation from contract costs etc, etc.

Personally, I will not even consider contracts with fuzzy definitions. And IMO anybody who uses a contract like that IS DODGY.
I repeat IMO and said anybody. Nobody is named and it is my opinion so it's not slander.

[finga]

A deposit is required to build a boat, if you are not 100% comitted to taking delivery of that boat that is being manufactured to your specs, DO NOT commit to purchasing that boat.

The purchase agreement is a standard legal form, used to weed out the real buyers


Yes, granted a deposit is not out of the question.
If the example above is from a 'standard legal form' then I'll never buy from a boat yard.
I can not believe a truely honest seller of goods of any description with integrity will have any clauses which are 'open to interpretations' or clauses who's out come comes down to 'personal opinion' of the vendor in a legal document as standard.
...Or for that matter any legit writer of legit legal documents putting in any clauses which are 'open to interpretation' or clauses that can determine the outcome of a contract as a direct result of someones 'personal opinion' in a legal document as standard.

[BM]

Keeping customers deposits on a used boat sale that falls over is not wise, long term focused business. Better to hand back the deposit, then you still have a potential customer rather than a burnt, screwed customer who will never return and nor will the many he tells his tale too.

Not all boat dealers are bad (perhaps only most?) and everyone has a mate with a tale about a bad consignment deal.

Its important to realise that if a boat is consigned too high (often due to the owner wanting too high a dollar for it) that at some point a price correction may be in order. So whilst the consignment paperwork has a figure on it, 4 weeks down the track if the boat has interest but the price is wrong I see no problem consulting the owner and adjusting the outcome (have done that many times) to a a figure that still suits the owner but puts the price right to sell.

However, boats sold for different dollars to the consignment agreement without the owners consent is a big no no. Not to mention plain stupid.

The "boat sold 3 weeks ago" thing has one answer and one alone. The dealer was struggling for money and had to cough up when he got caught out.

$3000 is a big deposit, but I guess one can ask for what they like. Its their choice. I used to take 10%(refundable).

Cheers

[austmarine]

just to clarify...no deposit is "kept", we pride ourselves on honest & reliable service & definately do not need the headache's from disgruntled customers. All businesses have a form of contract when purchases are made, when you are looking at a second hand boat, we recommend ALWAYS that a "subject to" clause is in the contract as a way out, (subject to motor inspection/finance etc).
happy boating!!

[finga]

A direct question for you austmarine.

If a standard contract is used is this scenario possible???..

I trade in my Bertie (say $10k) as a deposit on a tinny (say $11). I sign the paper work and go to get the extra $1k and when I come back in 10 minutes it may be too late. The buggers keep the Bertie and I get didly squat.

[Far side]

Never ever ever pay a deposit Issue an order in writing even a letter is sufficent stating amount details and payment terms That is sufficient to seal a deal. if entering into a contract I think $50.00 is sufficent to seal nothing more. As soon as the money passes hands you have a really hard time getting it back.

Order deliver inspect and payment are good solid proceedures to follow

It anyone dosent want to do business that way then go elsewhere

My 2 cents it works for me

[BilgeBoy]

Hey austmarine here is an idea for ya

Assuming you are a SELLER...Perhaps you can talk to Mr Ausfish about becoming a site sponsor and then put together a little deal for Ausfish members who buy, and put up a POSITIVE post. Nothing like good word of mouth!!!

BilgeBoy

[bastard]

I used them to sell a ski boat a couple of years ago,they were very helpful and payed up straight away.

[PinHead]

Never ever ever pay a deposit Issue an order in writing even a letter is sufficent stating amount details and payment terms That is sufficient to seal a deal. if entering into a contract I think $50.00 is sufficent to seal nothing more. As soon as the money passes hands you have a really hard time getting it back.

Order deliver inspect and payment are good solid proceedures to follow

It anyone dosent want to do business that way then go elsewhere

My 2 cents it works for me

An order in writing from an individual is not worth the paper it is written on.
10% of purchase price is a fair deposit and on the contratc you should have listed what you have ordered including all options.

$50 is nothing on say a $10k boat...I know I would not accept that deposit on that value of boat...and I doubt many would.

After saying that...I bought my last boat on a handshake...took a risk but all went well.

[FNQCairns]

Pretty sure today the deposit con works this way, a manufacturer (any) has a 2 to 3 month waiting list, each of those on the list pays a big deposit, manufacturer now has a slush fund of totally free money as working capital, new company BMW, the dogs, whatever.

The punters loose the interest (and control) that their money would have been earning, if the system was honest the deposit would go into a trust account (2 signatures needed to access) and any interest earned would be subtracted from the end total cost.

This would protect buyers, usually those who make the laws have a personal vested interest in the laws at some level somewhere, so it wouldn't fly but it would be a nice confidence inspiring step.

cheers fnq

[Roughasguts]

Geez I don't know guy's I paid zero deposit for a brand new home.
Moved in 6 weeks before settlement so ended up with 6 weeks rent free.

How good is that, I didn't know the builder or real estate agent, so maybe there are some good guy's out there still.

Would I pay a deposit sh!t no, never have never will.
I think deposits are for the salesmans commission once paid he gets his cut.
And once he's got his cut, no more intrest or service is provided, he moves on to the next buyer.

[copie]

Mick the guy that ownes the yard in question previously had the yard at Loganholme on the highway. I must say he does come across a littte doggy BUT the same thing happened to me. My boat was advertised in the trading post and he called me and offered to sell it from his yard. We did both sign paper work but i was welcome to take the boat at any time at all, and in fact took it about 3 weeks later to go fishing and sold it before returning it to the yard from my add in the trading post. good luck with YOUR decision MARK.

[jimbo59]

I know the boy's down there at amc there straight up and down,look if i owned a boat yard and someone came in off the street and wanted a boat only a fool would own in the instance of acc's and add on's ect,ect eg(bow rider with marlin tower),you got it built and low and behold the guy 's granny died and he can't buy it anymore,look fella;s this happens all the time especially with entry level boat's and stuff. your've only got to go to k-mart after xmas to see little johnny's roller skates that have been to sydney and back being handed back in cause "the wheels wobbly".So i don't see a drama for a deposit for a special build boat.

Only my thougths..jim :)

[Tangles]

Just read these posts with interest, will say in my earlier career i dealt with these sort of issues, enough said of that.

Its pretty simple really, a contract is a bargain, agreed terms of price, goods, time frames and obligations. If one party doesnt honour their obligations then you have rights to sue for specific performance, injunctive relief etc to enforce your rights. ( Your real problems arise when people cant meet their obligations usually with money and also obligations between the parties arent properly defined.

Also most forget that there is a fallback relief in most of these type of cases, being equitable relief, ie courts will look behind the contract/agreement details and look at the intent/real agreement between the parties. This is to protect people who think they have bargained for something and end up with something else even though there maybe an enforceable contract on the face of it.

Ultimately it really pays to know your obligations and have specific deliverables ie money, goods etc with timeframes and make sure you perform your obligations. On consignment deals opens up a can of worms and really I would shy away from it, plenty of other better way to make transactions I reckon.

My 2 cents, read the fine print and know your obligations and hope the other party can meet theirs or intend to meet it

mike

[Grand_Marlin]

Hmmm ... price adjustments as BM calls it is the key to dodgy contracts.

Note: You never get to see the contract of sale to the new owner, or know who the new owner is.

So....

You consign your boat for 20 grand

The dealer gets a signed contract for 18 Grand

Dealer rings you and says "we have an offer of 15 grand - will you accept it"

If you say yes, the dealer pockets the extra 3 grand, plus his 10% commission.

If you want honesty for consignment, go to John Crawford Marine and see Matt.

Cheers

Pete

[Far side]

An order in writing from an individual is not worth the paper it is written on.
10% of purchase price is a fair deposit and on the contratc you should have listed what you have ordered including all options.

$50 is nothing on say a $10k boat...I know I would not accept that deposit on that value of boat...and I doubt many would.

After saying that...I bought my last boat on a handshake...took a risk but all went well.


Mate dont want to blue over this but contracts come in 2 forms verbal and on paper

A verbal contract is a little more difficult to prove but po and letterhead is considered by law a contract. I have done the hard yards on this and unless you have a great legal team thats how it goes. If you send me a PO then I supply the goods in good order under the terms of the PO there is a good chance I will have your house if you dont pay. Unless you have purchased under a trust or company in another directors name then it gets realy tricky it just depends on the bucks I want to pay to recover the debt to honor the contract.

I purchase a few items on a handshake thats how I like to do business if the seller needs some confidence then in writing. The terms are dictated as payment on inspection and delivery sounds fair to me and 99% of the time it works

If the seller puts forward a contract and wont accept an order then I look a bit harder before signing
Any contract can be changed by the agreement of both parties witnessed by a JP or other appropiate signatory. If you cant deal with it just walk away but never sign .

Anyway enough of work back to B and F

[BM]

Marlin,

My customers nearly always knew what the sale price was. I used to work out a price that they were happy with and then I'd put a margin ontop for the business. Not a strict percentage as it varied depending on what the customer wanted. Some customers want too much, others want too little. So on some you win well and others its a tight deal. Such is life.

But I found often that customers would ask what its advertised for and I certainly wasn't silly enough to try and lie to them. So that meant that the price they wanted needed to be realistic so I could advertise it for a realistic price that was expected to sell quickly. Sometimes that doesn't work and particularly if someone has made a genuine (but lower) offer and the boats been in stock for a month or 2 you ring the owner and advise them "this guy wants to buy but he wants to crunch the dollars". Its at this point that renegotiation takes place. The owners are aware that the business is a business, there to produce profit and sometimes its a joint compromise whereby the business takes a lesser margin and the owner takes a lesser price. Win Win situation. No-one got precisely what they wanted, but everyone achieved their objective although not quite as financially as hoped for. But thats business and life in my book.

Cheers and not sure I like being referred to in conjunction with "dodgy contracts" in the light of my above explanation...

[PinHead]

Mate dont want to blue over this but contracts come in 2 forms verbal and on paper

A verbal contract is a little more difficult to prove but po and letterhead is considered by law a contract. I have done the hard yards on this and unless you have a great legal team thats how it goes. If you send me a PO then I supply the goods in good order under the terms of the PO there is a good chance I will have your house if you dont pay. Unless you have purchased under a trust or company in another directors name then it gets realy tricky it just depends on the bucks I want to pay to recover the debt to honor the contract.

I purchase a few items on a handshake thats how I like to do business if the seller needs some confidence then in writing. The terms are dictated as payment on inspection and delivery sounds fair to me and 99% of the time it works

If the seller puts forward a contract and wont accept an order then I look a bit harder before signing
Any contract can be changed by the agreement of both parties witnessed by a JP or other appropiate signatory. If you cant deal with it just walk away but never sign .

Anyway enough of work back to B and F

I don't really care what a PO or a contract is..I know in my business now...you want the job done..I want money...before I purchase equipment to install.
I have been stung before...to the tune of 11k plus 3k legals on the basis if a PO...never again.

[Far side]

I don't really care what a PO or a contract is..I know in my business now...you want the job done..I want money...before I purchase equipment to install.
I have been stung before...to the tune of 11k plus 3k legals on the basis if a PO...never again.

I understand
we had a customer playing silly buggers with payment about $16000
we had no contract no po but a signed job sheet
It cost him $19600 for his 16000 job
we got paid

But I understand where you are comming from Its a messy situation when you are owed money and I find the leagle tangle quite stressful when your trying to run everything else. However in 25 years of business I have only had to do this twice but I reckon thats 2 times too many.

[Grand_Marlin]

G'day BM,

Hell no Mate ... not referring to you in the slightest - you should know I have more respect for you than that :-[

I simply used your "price negotiation" statement to refer to how the dodgy dealers are getting at the customer.

Price negotiation is part of business, we all do it.

The dodgy operators take an underhanded advantage of their position so as to take unfair advantage of the consigner.

Not in the slightest referring to you as dodgy... sincerest apologies if I have offended.

Cheers

Pete

[BM]

No worries Pete :)

I was scratching my head when I read the post.. and thought huh???

All cool. :)

[finga]

I wonder where austmarine has gone??

[austmarine]

I wonder where austmarine has gone??

Too busy to read & quote!
All i know is we sleep straight at night & have plenty of HAPPY customers.:D

[finga]

So the answer to my previous question about standard contracts is unanswerable??

[Peter8862]

Hi guys,
I got my current boat from them & i must say they couldnt do enough to help me, I didnt like the sounder so a new garmin was supplied at dealer price, I didnt like the motor so a new etec was fitted, new safety gear. the detailers didnt clean it well enough so the salesman climbed in & did it himself. $200.00 deposit was enough to get all this extra work started. Give them a go.

You dont have to sign the contract if you dont want to, get them to change it, there working for you your the boss

[Shanoss]

Nothing wrong with asking for a deposit. I just got burned on a car sale that probably would have gone ahead if i had taken a deposit. People are more than happy to stuff people around as long as there is no dent left in their pocket. People need to get over the idea that every buisness out there is a charity organisation. They are there to make a dollar and nothing more. If you read the fine print and know what you are getting yourself into, there shoud not be a problem

[charlieash]

sharks in the water dont jump in .couple of close mates of mine got real issues with these guys .As its not me I wont go in to detail.

[tin can marlin]

At the end of the day if they are so conidfint of selling your boat why don't they just buy it of you and sell it on for a profit then everyone wins.

[BM]

At the end of the day if they are so conidfint of selling your boat why don't they just buy it of you and sell it on for a profit then everyone wins.

TCM,

theres a limit to how much you can finance, or how much you want to finance before you have to consider consignment or investor input.

I have done the whole lot.

Sure, buying a boat outright is the best way to go but theres a limit to ones finance or the degree of finance intended.

A consignment deal will put more in the owners pocket than an outright purchase will. If I have to put my own money on the line (or an investors) then I want considerably more return than what I would achieve on a consignment sale.

Return for risk is what its all about.

Cheers

[aqua rat]

I have had an experence withe Australian Marine Centre but only as a buyer and i can tell you they are as dodgy as any car yard or boat yard i have ever experenced.
When i went to test the boat i was interested in it was running real bad on 4 or 5 cylinders instead of 6 they came up with the most stupid ideas why like it only runs on 4 at idle then 6 when u get going. They also told me it had a anchor winch and kill tanks i flew down to check the boat out it had no winch no kill tanks .They said the owner was going over seas so i had to hand over the money in the next few days !!! After which time i told them fix the motor all stick the boat up there arss.They rebuilt the motor because it had bent lifters !! bought it sent it up turned up they pinched the anchor off it but knew nothing about it !!
They either thought i was stupid or just after a quick sale.
Any other buyers just be wary.

[castlemaine]

Sold my tinny on consignment through John Crawford Marine, Tingalpa and couldn't be happier. Will do it again. It's not so much as selling on consignment but who you deal with. If you not fully comfortable with the idea don't do it. I personally hate it, when lookers come through the Trading Post, just for a gander and see if they can beat you down in price.
A mate sold his through Nu Marine at Cleveland on consignment and was happy too.
Cheers

[robersl]

Was looking to buy a boat a few months back rang about a bluefin advertised in trading post $18k the guy told me the mob you are talking about took the boat on consignment i looked up the price and they had put 23k on it a few weeks later the bloke rings me back and said they failed to sell the boat left it out in the yard in the weather after i told him i was no longer looking he told me he wished he had not done it as the wiring was now crap from all the rain they had but i am only going on his say so

shane

[champion]

I too fell victim to them,

droped the boat off, with promise of understocked and quick sale !!!
when i collected it after my contract was up, there where things missing from the boat (couldnt find them they say) also looked like they took it for a run on the water, cause boat was not sitting on the trailer how i have it every time. and there was water level around the boat (not washed).

Have you ever wondered how, when you go fishing to your favourite spot X and there is someone on it ?

[FNQCairns]

Selling something in good condition for a fair price is the simplest job around, one of the things I get from this thread is if anyone is to consign (will never understand why) then it's wise to ensure a list or manifest (so to speak) is signed off on when dropped off and also at pickup, that could also go for engine hours at the computer I guess.
Must be lots boats racing around offshore stolen for a days fishing trip (of coarse the yard would never consider it theft) would sh.i..t the daylights out of me.

cheers fnq

[tin can marlin]

At the end of the day why do they need to consign boats when thay should just buy there own it is a boat yard not a real estate office.

[austmarine]

Re: Aqua Rat

This Boat Was Sold On Behalf (consignment), We Always Recommend An Independant Mechanic To Check The Motor, Also A Hull Inspection If The Buyer Wishes.
As The Middleman, We Do Not Know The History Of The used Boat, Hence The Recommendation To Inspect Independantly.
I Do Recall This Purchase & Speaking With The Previous Owner, Who Was Not Aware Of Any Mechanical Problems
I Do Believe That The Motor Was Rebuilt At no Cost To The Purchaser, Many Yards Would Wipe Their Hands With Issues Like These

This Mechanical Problem Arose After A Water Test And We Did Not State That It Was Supposed To Run Ok On 4 Cylinders!!, The Problem Was Rectified As Soon As It Could Be Rebuilt

We Always Try Here To Satisfy All Of Our Customers & Rely On Word Of Mouth Like Any Good, Honest Business So Please Don't Slander For An Issue That Realyy Wasn;t An Issue

For A Yard To Sell In Excess Of 700 Boats Per Year, Something Must Be Ok

Happy Boating

[PADDLES]

a contract is a contract people, if you don't like it then don't sign it. better still seek advice and amend it. always seek legal advice if you don't understand it, but never let yourself be pressured into signing something you don't understand.

as for deposits well the same thing goes, a deposit is a deposit, if you have paid a deposit then be prepared to lose it if you don't go ahead with the purchase and don't have a legal "out" as per the contract details. if you don't want to pay, then don't and go and do a deal somewhere else that doesn't want a deposit (if you can find anywhere).

further to what other people are saying on here i bought a boat that was on consignment at john crawfords and they were unreal to deal with. they made me fully understand the contract before i signed it and were an absolute pleasure to deal with.