View Full Version : double ups when crossing bars.
JEWIENEWIE
03-11-2006, 02:02 PM
I am slowly getting my confidence in crossing bars but will definately benefit from Billies bar crossing course in the near future but i have one question. I am familiar with sitting on the back of the wave when coming in over the bar but just curious. A mate who is very experienced in crossinfg bars said never to look back at the waves behind you, is it possible for a wave to come from behind or catch up with the one you are trying to sit behind? and if so what ae my options?Thanks guys
Jewie
Mr__Bean
03-11-2006, 02:34 PM
Some good reading here: #http://www.clubmarine.com.au/internet/clubmarine.nsf/docs/MG17-6+Technical
An exert from it that deals with your question:
IF THERE ARE NO CALMER LULLS WITH ENOUGH TIME TO CROSS, PICK THE LAST WAVE OF A BIG SET. I tend to do this anyway. Let the chosen swell slide underneath the boat and then power on and catch up to it again. Sitting on the back of the last big one means following waves are going to be smaller than the ones in front and it decreases the chances of a wave behind you catching the one in front. This is an unlikely event, which does happen sometimes. It's far less likely if the wave behind you is smaller than the one in front. A set of big waves across a shallow area also means that extra water has been deposited across the bar for you.
- Darren
snapperm8
03-11-2006, 07:27 PM
hey mate just outa curiosatie what bar are you near and how big is ur boat?
cheers dave
JEWIENEWIE
04-11-2006, 08:35 AM
Dave, i live just outside of byron bay and have been over the ballina bar a few times but only when conditions have been very good as i am in a 4.2 stacer seahawk runabout with a 30 light weight merc.
I go up to 1770 every year for a 4wk stint so i have been over that bar numerous times with no dramas at all.
The boat is band new and a very experienced skipper took me out in some pretty hairy stuff to show me her capabilities and i was pleasantly suprised on how well she handled it but doent worry readers i have been a surfer all my life and know what the ocean can do, i am not about to become a stastic by doing something stupid is such a small rig, just wanna make sure that when conditions allow me to go out i, i klnow as much as possible to lessen the danger factor.
Thanks for ya help
Jewie ;)
suzygs1000
04-11-2006, 09:04 AM
You can get jammed in between two big waves if you don't know the bar thoroughly. This happens if the roller you are riding in on happens to run up on to a sandbar. This causes it to basically stop and stand up. The one following does the same thing! You will then find yourselves jammed in between the two. The result is usually a broach in any repeat any single hulled vessel. This happened to me on the Jumpinpin bar in a 20 foot plate. >:( >:( I ended up on a bank called the "Green Bank", and we were both chucked from the boat, which then turned thru 180 degrees, and headed SE at about 10 knots with quarter tank of fuel.. VMR Beenleigh told me that the only way to get out of the situation is to give the boat full throttle and try to crash thru the roller in front of you. :-/ They also told me that on the day of the event, the only vessel that would have survived would have been Shark Cat (I guess they meant any cat), as they have the lift to get the nose up and over the wave. They also told me that they lose many windscreens in their 28 foot Cat doing just this.
I now live in North Qld. NO coastal bars.
Dave.
griz066
04-11-2006, 09:14 AM
Hey Suzygs1000, Did you find your boat?
suzygs1000
04-11-2006, 09:31 AM
Yes I did. :D We were tipped out about 1pm Sunday. The boat was picked up about 4am on the Tuesday morning by an Evans Head trawler. Talk about luck. It was the only trawler out of Evans Head that morning due to bad weather. My boat floated under their boom.
Was on NSW tv, as the boat still had fish in it plus mobile phone and all the fishing gear. GPS still going. NSW water police had no record of any overdue boats, so there was a bit of concern down there until rego check done, and I was contacted.
No damage to boat, just horrible stink from rotten fish and bait.
Dave.
JEWIENEWIE
08-11-2006, 11:33 AM
Thanks for all your replies, it has helped me alot.
Jewie ;)
Heath
08-11-2006, 02:44 PM
Your mates a nut. Always keep a good lookout in all directions when crossing a bar.
Your mates a nut. Always keep a good lookout in all directions when crossing a bar.
Exactly, that's what I've been taught. # It's called situational awareness. #You can't prepare for something if you don't see it. #You've got to have eyes in the back of your head. I've also been taught that waves travel at the same speed. A wave will not catch the one in front.
Camo
JEWIENEWIE
09-11-2006, 11:19 AM
Heath, my thoughts were the same but being new to this area in crossing bars, i didnt know any better, hence me making this post as the information you can gain from this site is invaluable. Thanks to all who contributed.
Camo, I have been a surfer for over 20 yrs and i can assure you, waves can and will catch up with each other at times, but may be different at bar crossings.
Jewie
Hagar
09-11-2006, 12:41 PM
Agree with the last few posts . Be a rubberneck - it does not take long to have a glance behind you . I have had waves catch the one in front on the Tweed on an outgoing tide and also occasionally on Currumbin bar in the surf zone . Can test your confidence in your boat's ability if you have no option but to run over the broken one in front #:o . Picking the last one in a big set is a good plan but sometimes difficult to time exactly . Would be interested to see you post what Billy C. reckons although all bars are different and he uses South Passage I think .
Chris
Al_Macka
09-11-2006, 03:16 PM
JEWIENEWIE.......
Spend some time sitting on NTH Wall 2 watch conditions
as they change so much during the stages off the tides... ESPECIALLY
btm halve out going ... MAN they stand & close up.....
Watch local boats go in & out .. When theres a ROLL on sit & watch
the TRAWLERS ,THEY LOOK SLOW BUT THEY KNOW THIER STUFF...
As 4 ur EXPERIENCED MATE telling u dont look behind , give him da
flick ..As u need total AWARENESS CROSSING ANY BAR....
Boat ur size will limit u 2 conditions
HOPE this & other posts help
Been useing Lennox beach & Ballina bar about 20 years,still used 2
sit on Nth Wall wif beer & watch 4 the CHANNEL & SAND MOVEMENT
NIGHT crossing in & out .. thats a nother story
Safe boating.... VMR is alway on tap
CHEERS MACKA ;)
Duyz72
09-11-2006, 03:54 PM
Definitely get in touch with the VMR or CoastGuard tower on the bar (if you have one) and find out what is happening, they will always be happy to give you the most up to date information and help.
Getout
09-11-2006, 04:39 PM
I know one thing: The worst enemy on any bar is the bottom! Runnng out of water in waves will cause major dramas. Horsepower and brains can get you out of trouble in most cases if you have water under the prop.
Agree with the last few posts . Be a rubberneck - it does not take long to have a glance behind you . I have had waves catch the one in front on the Tweed on an outgoing tide and also occasionally on Currumbin bar in the surf zone . Can test your confidence in your boat's ability if you have no option but to run over the broken one in front . Picking the last one in a big set is a good plan but sometimes difficult to time exactly . Would be interested to see you post what Billy C. reckons although all bars are different and he uses South Passage I think .
Chris
Billy C told me, not two weeks ago that a wave will not catch the one in front. However I too have seen a wave top another when it is breaking on the shore, this is a different senario. Look I wouldn't claim to be an expert by any means, but I do trust a guy with 30 odd years of experience crossing bars all over Australia.
This is what Bill has to say about it, in the literature he provides, "Generally one wave will not catch another wave in a set. Despite a lot of white water and noise from breaking surf, a boat remains safe while it sits on the back of a moving wave, and has sufficient horsepower to remain in front of the wave behind."
Camo
hungry6
09-11-2006, 07:19 PM
I'm no expert on waves, but from years (thousands of hrs)of ridding jetskis and wave jumping. We spend the most of our time in the middle of bars, as it is actually safer to ride in a bar than the beach!! as you cannot be trap between a breaking wave and dry sand.Over the years, I've never had or seen one wave catches up to another, the only time they compress up is that a shallow sandbank is in the path of the wave you're on, and the one behind is a larger set. To avoid compressed set, just sit on the back of the largest swell on the way. From exprerience, If we ever got on to a smaller set, being compress by a larger one behind, you have to full throttle and crash through it before you get to the white water, you WILL come to rest in the break zone if you're not going fast enough as there is virtually no foward propulsion in the white water, and you're only relying on momentun by additional speed to take you beyond the break zone. Please note, this is from a jetski perspective and note a boat!!
Al_Macka
09-11-2006, 09:59 PM
# #I FEEL SICK U TOLD THAT GUY THAT........... BEING POLITE
Heath
09-11-2006, 10:06 PM
As Hagar has said, on an outgoing tide , you have pressure waves that can & do pop up in an instant. The swell is still moving forward and when these two combine it can lead to a very messy situation as you are sitting on the back of a pressure wave & the swell wave is comming up the rear.
Al_Macka
09-11-2006, 10:23 PM
THANK'S # HEATH #.................
TEMP # RETURNING 2 NORM >:(
Lone_Wolf
10-11-2006, 07:51 AM
Re: double ups when crossing bars.
« Reply #8 - on: 08.11.06 at 14:44:22 » Your mates a nut. Always keep a good lookout in all directions when crossing a bar.
Maybe he has a bad neck Heath ;) I agree with you, vigilance 360 degrees.
LW
reef_king
10-11-2006, 11:27 AM
with regards to swells/waves not catching the one in front it does happen and will. How do we get freak waves?
Ive hit a large freak wave that was 4 times as big as the average height of the swells and this was in 70m of water.
Ive been sat on the back of a 2.5-3m breaking,rolling swell travelling at 12knots to look back and have a 3m wave catching up quick. Im glad i was in the cat and smashed the throttle down and shot up and over the wave in front to avoid having the following wave pick us up from behind and toothpick us. This was on a runout tide around halfway between waypoint 2 and 3 of the wide bay bar in approx. 25m of water. Ive had this happen quite a few times and all on an outgoing tide. Without a doubt if i was in my last boat(18 foot tinnie) trying to go over the front would have ended up in a broach and either way your stuffed, thats why i prefer to head out of a bar than come in.
Waves do and will compress up and overtake and you don't need shallow water either.
ty
I just found an artical on the Club Marine web site which was written by a fella named Warren Steptoe. #This is what he says about waves catching each other,
IF THERE ARE NO CALMER LULLS WITH ENOUGH TIME TO CROSS, PICK THE LAST WAVE OF A BIG SET. I tend to do this anyway. Let the chosen swell slide underneath the boat and then power on and catch up to it again. Sitting on the back of the last big one means following waves are going to be smaller than the ones in front and it decreases the chances of a wave behind you catching the one in front. This is an unlikely event, which does happen sometimes. It's far less likely if the wave behind you is smaller than the one in front. A set of big waves across a shallow area also means that extra water has been deposited across the bar for you.
So there you go. #The article is worth reading http://www.clubmarine.com.au/internet/clubmarine.nsf/docs/MG17-6+Technical
Camo
JEWIENEWIE
10-11-2006, 01:21 PM
Thanks reef king. Camo, just remember the first few lines out of billies literature,
GENERALLY, one wave will not catch the other.
The key word being generally, Being a surfer i know they do this from time to time, that is the whole reason for me making this post so if it does happen to me i know how to handle it or better still not get myself into a situation that this may happen.
Thanks to all who contributed. ;)
Jewie
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