4 strokes for a Cat

[julian1]

I have an early Noosa Cat 660 (basically old 20' Sharkcat with pods and a bit lighter) and have been thinking about upgrading the 130 yammies for some 4 stroke economy. Have been thinking about the 140 Suzy but maybe a bit underpowered, but also the 150 Yammie excellent power but will they be too heavy at 220kg ? has abyone done this too their Cat ? the current yammies weigh only 169kg's and the boat is balanced beautifully I think it could take more weight but not too much. Is there a suitable 4 stroke ?

[ziggy.]

Julian1
Mate I have been down this path to some extent only my experiences are with the 7.4 mtr model, one a sharkcat and now with a Noosacat. The first boat had twin V4 140 Evenrudes on it with engine wells not pods and I have to say they were a good match for the boat cruised at 50 ks at 4500 rpm, after five years of storage and no use I decided to replace them and to try to keep the story short I did seriously consider twin 140 suzys because the weight was similar and the power was equal or better than what I had, I would think that two of these may be a tad on the high side as far as horsepower goes for your boat, but as you know the setup that you have now would have to be close to perfect and thats probably due to the weight of the yamahas.

This story goes on forever but for what its worth I decided against the fourstrokes and my first choice was 150 hp E-TECS, the power is great the weight is also a winner and the fuel economy is as good as any fourstroke and they are still to some degree a simple two stroke. There is so much choice out there unlike years ago, I think the big thing is weight, to much on the back can ruin a good boat. As for me I didn't get my first choice mainly because the dealer lost the evenrude dealership so I turned to Yamahas, a pair of HPDI 150s these weigh the same as the 150 fourstroke that you mentioned, the boat is not on the water yet but soon I hope 3-4 weeks fingers crossed.

Evenrude offer a 115 e-tec which would suit your boat really well but also I think suzuki are good if you really want fourstrokes I am just not sure about the weight, you have got a really nice boat there so you want to make the right decision. I have noticed that Kevlacat fit nothing but suzukis , a bit of food for thought.

[crazboutfishin]

Julian1

Suzukies and Evinrudes. You've got the Suzuki with amazing technology with the 175 and 250 having variable valve timing which is a must have in todays society with the rising fuel prices, surprising power for a fourstroke and I havent heard a bad word about em. From the Suzuki site. (Other advanced features include multi-stage induction and a 32-bit onboard computer which monitors engine sensors and controls the multi-point sequential fuel injection system.) You are starting to see more and more boats with them.

Then you have the Evinrude which also are very technologically advanced. They are as quiet as a 4 stroke, as economic as a 4 stroke, they put out less emissions than Verados and Yammies 4's, they can run on no oil for 4 hours or more, they consist of a rope start system which is very safe, they feature only 2 head components as others have over 200, they have no service for 3 years (you probaably already know that) but most importantly you are still getting the brute power of a 2 stroke.

Between the two they are so good that if you bought either of them you would be happy. But my opinion would have to be the Suzy as I have heard alot more about them and they are on so many boats. Also i am seeing that alot of coast gaurd services are starting to use them. I havent seen many e-tecs on boats so im unsure. They can talk the talk but i'm not sure if they can walk the walk.

Good luck with your choices.

Crazy

[julian1]

thanks guys, but I know the Suzy 140 would be good and probably the most weight I would want but they are only 128hp, at the moment my 130 yammies would have more grunt and are lighter, and I am actually wanting a little more, I reckon 150's would be perfect when loaded heading out to the shelf. does anyone know if the yammie 150 4 stroke would be just too heavy at 220kg's ? they would have plenty of power as they are actually around 160 hp
I think if I spent the money 4 strokes would be the way to go, but it is still that power to weight issue.

[fishingrod]

Throw some extra weight on your pods next trip. Get it as far astern as you can to simulate the weight of a bigger outboard.

Then see what kind of attitude you get.

Even if the motors are marginally too heavy, a change in props can make some difference. There are a lot of mixed thoughts about foils so i wont go there.

My only experience has been on board a 7m SharkCat with twin o/bs. It was running factory props and was fine. Someone decided to put a set of Permatrims on it and it made no difference in my opinion. (but there was no problem in the first place)

Rod

[dfox]

There are new 660's fitted with 150 yammy 4's. I know of one fella who put them on just so he had more power then his mate who has 140 suzuki's (rev heads). I havent been in either boat so cant comment on how they carry the weight. I'd ring noosacat and ask them what they recon as well as water test your boat with sand bags on the pods ...foxy

[reef_king]

Mate if i was in your position and was conncerned about the extra weight I would go the suki 140's, I don't know who told u they only develop 128hp but thats crap and would be called 130s if this was true, they develop 103kw or 140 (out of suzuki manual)
the engines wheigh 189kg each and for the 20kg a side more, u can easly save those weight figures in extra fuel u'll carry with ur current yammies, i asume you also carry oil on board as well......

People are under the impression that the etecs use less fuel than a four stroke(?were do they get this from ::)) as this is only at wot and d.s.t...... a mate has a 115hp etec pushing a 5m pressed alloy boat and it use's 25-26lph at 4000rpm compared to my 140s that use 15lph each at same revs. True the 140s aren't as powerful as the 150hp 4/s yammie/honda etc.. but are much cheaper per engine to buy origiannaly(around $6000 for the pair was the price i was quoted 6 months ago) also if ur after longetivity/engine hours can't go wrong with a 4 stroke.

ty

[crazboutfishin]

Thanks for clearing those fuel facts up for me Ty. I was just going off the E-tec dvd.

Cheers
Crazy

[lippa]

Mate if i was in your position and was conncerned about the extra weight I would go the suki 140's, I don't know who told u they only develop 128hp but thats crap and would be called 130s if this was true, #they develop 103kw or 140 (out of suzuki manual)
the engines wheigh 189kg each and for the 20kg a side more, u can easly save those weight figures in extra fuel u'll carry with ur current yammies, i asume you also carry oil on board as well......

People are under the impression that the etecs use less fuel than a four stroke(?were do they get this from ::)) as this is only at wot and d.s.t...... a mate has a 115hp etec pushing a 5m pressed alloy boat and it use's 25-26lph at 4000rpm compared to my 140s that use 15lph each at same revs. True the 140s aren't as powerful as the 150hp 4/s yammie/honda etc.. but are much cheaper per engine to buy origiannaly(around $6000 for the pair was the price i was quoted 6 months ago) also if ur after longetivity/engine hours can't go wrong with a 4 stroke.

ty


I am led to beleive the suzuki's do only devolop 128hp. its the 10% marketing thingy (for want of a better word) that company's can get away with! do the math, you'll soon see they are in there legal rights to call a 128hp motor a 140hp.
but as always, someone please correct me!

cheers

lippa

[Gunfish]

I am led to beleive the suzuki's do only devolop 128hp. its the 10% marketing thingy (for want of a better word) that company's can get away with! do the math, you'll soon see they are in there legal rights to call a 128hp motor a 140hp.
but as always, someone please correct me!

cool, I've never done that before!

From the Suzuki web site the DF140 creates a max output of 103.0kw. This converted to hp = 138.1253 hp, enough said. The weight for the DF 140 is 186kg for the long and 191kg for the x-long. I only wish I had your dilemma. Hope this helps and good luck.

Mabo.

[julian1]

yeah I know the website says that but the general word from mostr people in the know is that they are only 128hp. so they would be around the same power (but 4stroke curve) but more weight, this will equal worse performance. I have to remember taking off 10kg's of oil each side though but these are in front of the engines. has anyone put 150 yammies or honda's on a similar boat ?
maybe my only choice is optimax or etec ?

[joey_1987]

Here it lists the 140hp zuke as developing 138.1hp@5900rpm, http://www.boatpoint.com.au/portal/alias__boatpointau/tabID__200859/ArticleID__1960040/DesktopDefault.aspx
Cheers.

[Sportfish_5]

yeah I know the website says that but the general word from mostr people in the know is that they are only 128hp. so they would be around the same power (but 4stroke curve) but more weight, this will equal worse performance. I have to remember taking off 10kg's of oil each side though but these are in front of the engines. has anyone put 150 yammies or honda's on a similar boat ?
maybe my only choice is optimax or etec ?

Sorry but that 128hp claim is just a load of internet BS about the Zukes. Get the people "in the know" to actually post some dyno figures to prove their claim. They are without peer in the 115 to 140 4 stroke class so this crap prolly was generated by the opposition who have had their bums smacked in market share by this model. I have owned one and they are a very strong and fuel efficient engine and I would not hesitate to own one again on a suitable boat.

[lenm]

Just a though - check out F&B latest publication dedicated soley to cats. I saw it in the newsagent the other day.
It had an article about repowering older cats with 4 strokes and in general suggested going as light weight as possible. Might be a dissapointment in the handling department if you try to bolt on too much weight.

[reef_king]

Greg p. ur right on the money :)It probablly the opposition,or salesman B.S

I have been on cats with 2x 130hp 2stroke yammies and the exact same hull with 2x140hp suke's and guess which one had more power?the suzukis had a higher top speed and higher cruise speed, with same weight on board and conditions, If they are only 128hp...... there good. :)

Just about every pro that has a cat in the 6.5-7.5 m range on the sunny coast has 2 140hp suzuki's on them with a few opting for the yammies and hondas in the 100-150 hp range, I'm yet to see an etec or optimax on one.Just a thought. I'm not saying the 140's are the absulote best as I would like a 150hp honda vtec(bit more power and economy) on my transom as my boat has no problem handling the weight, however, the origanal Q. is concerning weight and the 140's are the leader in power to weight in this range with better economy over the 2-stroke competiters

[Spaniard_King]

Just for the record ;)

I have just taken 2 x 140 suzis off a 7m Haines and put 2 x 150 Hondas on it.

The Boat now has an extra 10klm per hour speed increase accross the rpm range with an extra 15klm at WOT. The owner has boasted about a significant fuel saving and they are a fair bit quieter.

:-X

Garry

[julian1]

Just for the record ;)

I have just taken 2 x 140 suzis off a 7m Haines and put 2 x 150 Hondas on it.

The Boat now has an extra 10klm per hour speed increase accross the rpm range with an extra 15klm at WOT. The owner has boasted about a significant fuel saving and they are a fair bit quieter.

:-X

Garry

why did he take off the Suzy's ? did he mention any weight issue ?
are they now for sale ? and do you have details of hours condition etc ?
they might be a good alternative for me

[Spaniard_King]

Hi Julian,

They have 800 hours on them and are in very good condition. There is no weight issues as the Hondas that went on weigh more than the suzis. they may be sold, I will check for you.

PM me with your phone number and location please

Garry

[insideout]

i have 2 140 hp suzis on the back of my new kevla cat and coud not be more happy with the performance out of the hole , and top speed. The same with our last boat which had twin 250 suzis on a 38 foot flybridge kevlacat ,which also had blistering speed out of the hole ,and speed to burn. The 140 hp suzis at 4000 rpm pushes my boat at (depending on load) 25Knots variable to 5600rpm to 41 knots variable. iI usually sit on about 4200- 4300 which returns me about 20ltrs per hour per engine, which makes for a very economical running across the wide bay bar and out two the shelf and all areas in between. I think for price, fuel consumption, performance,service backup,it is a safe bet on the suzis . Maybe the 150 suzies are even worth considering??

[Kopey]

Just some food for thought:

Suzuki DF150/175: 211kgs, 2867cc's
Honda BF135/150: 217kgs, 2354 cc's
Yamaha 150 4strk: 212kgs, 2670 cc's

If it came down to performance I'd know who I'd be backing. No substitue for cubic inches and whats more the suzis are lighter as well. All good engines by no means, good reliable trustworthy fourstrokers. ;)

Go the Suzis!! ;) Cheers Ads

[Croweater]

I posted this on a different thread earlier, thought it would be appropriate here.

I gotta 175 E-tec on my Trailcraft 660 Sports cab, best motor I ever had so far. It replaced a 2005 model Suzuki 175 which got me towed home 4 times since February. I was going to use it as an anchor but dec=ided better and traded it in.

The E-tec is quieter, better off the mark, seems to be better on fuel (I dont keep records) and I also get about 5 knots more out of the rig at WOT.

[Spaniard_King]

Julian check your PM's

[julian1]

Julian check your PM's

I have - thanks Spaniard King

[Kopey]

How exactly did the Suzuki fail Eagle Eye? i.e seizure, gearbox, fuel probs, over-propped? Just curious, I've fitted quite a few DF175's now and every owner we've had with them are impressed.

Info if possible appreciated thanks
Cheers Ads #;)

[Croweater]

First two times was something to do with the fuel injection. Third time a bolt on top of the starter motor came undone so that the thing that pops up and turns the big cog thing wouldnt I line up properly. The last time it was a fuel injection problem again.

As you can see i know stuff all about mechanics. I know how to do the basics Check & fill oil, sparkplugs etc but after that I am very limited which is why I need a motor I can rely on.

Ive got a mate with a 3 month old DF 115 which I heard went 'pop' on the weekend. aw him at the local on saturday night and he is not happy. Not sure yet of the problem, the dealer is 100k's away and he was taking it there this morning. I will let you know when I hear something

[Sportfish_5]

Hope you were touching wood :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X


Tic Toc Tic Toc

[Kopey]

First two times was something to do with the fuel injection. Third time a bolt on top of the starter motor came undone so that the thing that pops up and turns the big cog thing wouldnt #I #line up properly. The last time it was a fuel injection problem again.

As you can see i know stuff all about mechanics. I know how to do the basics Check & fill oil, sparkplugs etc but after that I am very limited which is why I need #a motor I can rely on.

Ive got a mate with a 3 month old DF 115 which I heard went 'pop' on the weekend. aw him at the local on saturday night and he is not happy. Not sure yet of the problem, the dealer is 100k's away and he was taking it there this morning. I will let you know when I hear something

Interesting Eagle Eye, and yet in Rod_Bender's case with the Townville VMR pulling in 6 Etecs as told from his experience, that was just heresay and BS just like anybody that says something you don't like here. Like Rod_Bender said on the last post that just got deleted,"Ring them for yourself."

And then we've got your mate's got a DF115 that went "pop", so he was tellin you at the pub on Saturday night. Yeah mate, no worries. ;D ;D Do tell us more. :)

[Kopey]

Townsville Coast Guard obviously doesnt cover that area???

;)

[Kopey]

First two times was something to do with the fuel injection. Third time a bolt on top of the starter motor came undone so that the thing that pops up and turns the big cog thing wouldnt #I #line up properly. The last time it was a fuel injection problem again.

As you can see i know stuff all about mechanics.

Hitachi starter motors are used on about 99% of all Japanese outboards out there and I must say this is the first time I've heard one play up so early.

Eagle Eye, was the fuel injection problem you had caused by ingestion of water or dirt, or was it something else? #:-? :)

[Croweater]

First two times was something to do with the fuel injection. Third time a bolt on top of the starter motor came undone so that the thing that pops up and turns the big cog thing wouldnt #I #line up properly. The last time it was a fuel injection problem again.

As you can see i know stuff all about mechanics. I know how to do the basics Check & fill oil, sparkplugs etc but after that I am very limited which is why I need #a motor I can rely on.

Ive got a mate with a 3 month old DF 115 which I heard went 'pop' on the weekend. aw him at the local on saturday night and he is not happy. Not sure yet of the problem, the dealer is 100k's away and he was taking it there this morning. I will let you know when I hear something

Interesting Eagle Eye, and yet in Rod_Bender's case with the Townville VMR pulling in 6 Etecs as told from his experience, that was just heresay and BS just like anybody that says something you don't like here. Like Rod_Bender said on the last post that just got deleted,"Ring them for yourself."

And then we've got your mate's got a DF115 that went "pop", so he was tellin you at the pub on Saturday night. Yeah mate, no worries. #;D ;D #Do tell us more. #:)




Kopey,

You have just confirmed to me what I gather other people on this forum have already confirmed - YOU ARE AN IDIOT!

For a start, it wasnt me who made those comments about Rod_Bender's story being heresay and/or BS. I dont remember who it was, but it definitly wasnt me.

Secondly, I have a mate who I have known since we went to school together who now has his motor at the dealership with a stuffed gearbox, waiting for Suzuki to ok the warranty work. They have had the hide to ask whether the motor was over-propped, even though the prop on it is the one it came with.



How exactly did the Suzuki fail Eagle Eye? i.e seizure, gearbox, fuel probs, over-propped? Just curious, I've fitted quite a few DF175's now and every owner we've had with them are impressed.

Info if possible appreciated thanks

You pretend to be a genuine seeker of knowledge, and when someone says something you dont like, you get p!ssed and very critical at them.

Look, I know you are anti E-tec, but just because someone has a bad experience with the product you endorse, dont start being critical of them.


Eagle Eye, was the fuel injection problem you had caused by ingestion of water or dirt, or was it something else?

Now you are trying to blame me for the Suzukis failings?

I dont know what caused it, my boat has a big oil filter shaped filter on it as well as an in-line filter to guard against these things you ask about, so the quality of the fuel is and has never been a problem. It hasn't affected the E-tec anyway, and it gets its fuel from the same tanks and the same fuel lines.

My advice to you is for you to go out, buy a big mirror and have a BLOODY GOOD LOOK AT YOURSELF!!!

[Kopey]

For a start, it wasnt me who made those comments about Rod_Bender's story being heresay and/or BS. I dont remember who it was, but it definitly wasnt me.



Townsville Coast Guard obviously doesnt cover that area???

I guess this doesn't cover that area. #;D ;D ;D





Eagle Eye, was the fuel injection problem you had caused by ingestion of water or dirt, or was it something else?

Now you are trying to blame me for the Suzukis failings?


Simple fact is 9 out of every 10 fuel injection problems are caused by poor quality fuel related issues. I'M NOT BLAMING YOU FOR THAT!!! #;D Just simply inquiring as to how exactly the fuel injection problem occurred and not just once but THREE times in a row.

It would be very interesting to know what caused it, I think that's a fair enough question.


As you can see i know stuff all about mechanics.




My advice to you is for you to go out, buy a big mirror and have a BLOODY GOOD LOOK AT YOURSELF!!!


My advice to you is to stop being SO SENSITIVE and CHILL OUT!!! # ;D ;)

[Kopey]

Look, I know you are anti E-tec, but just because someone has a bad experience with the product you endorse, dont start being critical of them.

Where have I said I'm anti Etec? I may post things on this site that is my opinion on why I think a product is superior to another but that doesn't mean to say I'm anti anything does it? Just because someone might have a go at a certain make of car or outboard for that matter doesn't mean you have to get SO BLOODY SERIOUS!! ;D Nissan guys will bag Toyota guys and vice versa.

[finding_time]

#Nissan guys will bag Toyota guys.


with bloody good reasons toyotas are cr@p ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[the_bomber]

Yeah Ian your Nissan is a cracker..........as long as you remember to turn the airconditioner off it will go any where a hard riding truck finished thing can :D

[Spaniard_King]

You guys need to take your bickering to another room ::)

go the mitzi's ;D ;D ;D

[Kopey]

Good to see some people don't take things so seriously & have a sense of humour. #;D ;D ;D #Good on ya fellas. #;D ;D # Rather push my Holden than drive a Ford #;D ;D ;D ;D

[finding_time]

Yeah Ian your Nissan is a cracker..........as long as you remember to turn the airconditioner off it will go any where a hard riding truck finished thing can :D

Bobby bobby bobby ,your loosing your touch this again is not very sly!!

Yes i did need to turn the air off to get every bit of power out of the big diesel to get up that bit of rock on that rather steep hill ( but i did get up ):o But just remind me how your toyota would have gone at getting up it!!!! Toyotas build a very nice power plant( i have always said this ) but there running gear is Terrible and if you had tried to do the hill even if you had lockers fitted like my nissan your front cv's in your 100 series definately would have failed . Power is not everything in a 4x4, running gear is much much more important and if yours actually went onto the dirt you would know this without having to be told!!! Next trip to levuka soon i trust you'll be playing ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I even help you wash it if thats why you dont take it off road ;) Easy to be a car park expert mate :D

ian

[Fisher_Boats]

Eagle Eye.......Just wondering why the guys at Haines Suzuki haven't heard of these so called Suzuki failings especially with the 115 going pop ???

Every warranty claim has to go through them.

I can say that the only warranty claim we have had in over two years of selling Suzi's has been a faulty oil switch.



Cheers Col

[the_bomber]

Col
glad you got it back on track

Ian
I couldn't let that one go ;D
Yes you are the biggest, best looking, strongest and have the best toys :D
I will go back to my carpark and dream of being like you :-*
Rob

[finding_time]

Yes you are the biggest, best looking, strongest and have the best toys :D

Rob


Hehehe! Hey pot it's kettle here mate, no one has better looking toys than you mate,i mean its all about looks for the bomber 8-)

[Croweater]

Eagle Eye.......Just wondering why the guys at Haines Suzuki haven't heard of these so called Suzuki failings especially with the 115 going pop ???

I am buggered if I know, it only happened on the weekend, as far as I know, the dealer hasnt started work on it yet.

[Croweater]

# Rather push my Holden than drive a Ford #;D ;D ;D ;D

I'll give you a wave while I'm going past then [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif] [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif] [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif]

[Fisher_Boats]

Eagle Eye.......Just wondering why the guys at Haines Suzuki haven't heard of these so called Suzuki failings especially with the 115 going pop ???

I am buggered if I know, it only happened on the weekend, as far as I know, the dealer hasnt started work on it yet.


Eagle Eye ...Keep us up to date on it please ;)

Cheers Col

[Kopey]

Eagle Eye.......Just wondering why the guys at Haines Suzuki haven't heard of these so called Suzuki failings especially with the 115 going pop ???

I am buggered if I know, it only happened on the weekend, as far as I know, the dealer hasnt started work on it yet.


Eagle Eye ...Keep us up to date on it please #;)

Cheers Col

Yes Eagle Eye, please keep us posted, and if possible, let us know exactly how your fuel injection failed you 3 times on that DF175 you say you used to own. I haven't heard of any fuel injection problems yet on any of the Suzuki 4 stroke range and that's coming from someone who's fitted more Suzukis than any single one person in our state. I'm sure the head tech here, Chris Guppy would have let us know if there was any problems, to date all we've had is new ECM's for the V6's.



As you can see i know stuff all about mechanics.



Eagle Eye, was the fuel injection problem you had caused by ingestion of water or dirt, or was it something else?

Now you are trying to blame me for the Suzukis failings?


As I said earlier (which I shouldn't have to say) I'm not blaming you for anything, but if it wasn't something as simple as contaminates in the fuel (which will eventually get through the filters if they don't get emptied or changed), and it wasn't something as simple as a blockage or fuel restriction then what was it? Just curious. :-?

Keep us posted on the DF115 too please ;)
Cheers Ads :)

[Kopey]

First two times was something to do with the fuel injection. Third time a bolt on top of the starter motor came undone so that the thing that pops up and turns the big cog thing wouldnt #I #line up properly. The last time it was a fuel injection problem again.


Forgot about the problem you had with the Hitachi starter motor (used on all jap outboards), has anyone else here had a problem like this with one so early in the piece? :-? ;)

[Kopey]

So, whats the latest Eagle Eye? :) ;)

[soulfish]

got a mate with 140 suzy"s on 2700 series noosa cat suprisingly goes well 36 knots good economy ,could do with some more ponies out of the hole.would be a great match for the 660 keep the stern light i think although the 150 yammies are a great engine you dont want the extra weight or need that extra hp & added fuel consumption.I think there a better match for a 2700series

cheers

[Kopey]

Check the specs I posted earlier soulfish



Suzuki DF150/175: 211kgs, 2867cc's
Honda BF135/150: 217kgs, 2354 cc's
Yamaha 150 4strk: 212kgs, 2670 cc's#

The 150 Suzis not only lighter than the Yamie 150 but has bigger displacement and has camchains instead of a belt which lasts alot longer (less maintance).

Cheers Adam #;)

[Kopey]

Any update yet on those Suzi's Eagle Eye? #;)

[Kopey]

Eagle Eye.......Just wondering why the guys at Haines Suzuki haven't heard of these so called Suzuki failings especially with the 115 going pop ???

I am buggered if I know, it only happened on the weekend, as far as I know, the dealer hasnt started work on it yet.


Eagle Eye ...Keep us up to date on it please #;)

Cheers Col

As with Col_s and others here, keep us up to date on it please ;)

[Kopey]

As Kevlacat and VMR rescue groups have found, the Suzi 4 strokers make a great match with cats. ;)

[Kerry]

Anybody who requires 4S parts there is apparently an outboard wrecking mob in Townsville with them coming out of their ears.

The thought is this is the first indication now that 4S are getting some years on them that 4S repair costs have gone though the roof and wrecking is the better alternative.

Regards, Kerry.

[Kopey]

One customer here I might see every now and then (Steve Haley Brown pro crabber) has over 4000 hours on his 2 x DF115's, might check the pumps every 500 hours, change oils and filters every 200 and does the majority of maintenance himself, still has 180-190 PSI compression every cylinder so is far from wrecking his. ;D

[Kerry]

But then they not broke are they? and when they are broke he will replace them with new ones, won't he?

The thing is when they are broke many are now finding it is simply too expensive to repair them and simply lifting them.

Lets face it if users installed genuine OMC oil filters and the recommended oil it works out at about 100 bucks just for an oil change.

Many only look at the exterior not at the interior. Like how dumb is it to design an outboard and not be able to remove the bottom spark plug without having to remove basically the entire fairing assembly (from the bottom up). Yes it's your favourite OMC/Suzzie 140 4S!

Regards, Kerry.

[Kopey]

Yeah it takes me a whole minute to remove them and probably 5 minutes absolute tops for your average joe to pull them apart! #;D ;D ;D

Ever tried getting at the plugs in a DI 2 stroke V6 Optimax??? #;D ;D ;D

[Kopey]

At least Suzuki mechanics never have to go fishing for bolts dropped down in between bottom cowls like alot of motors. ;D ;D ;D

[Kopey]

Lets face it if users installed genuine OMC oil filters and the recommended oil it works out at about 100 bucks just for an oil change.


And how much does the 2 stroke oil work out to per 100 hours?? ;D

[Kopey]

Many only look at the exterior not at the interior. Like how dumb is it to design an outboard and not be able to remove the bottom spark plug without having to remove basically the entire fairing assembly (from the bottom up). Yes it's your favourite OMC/Suzzie 140 4S! # #

How dumb is it to design an engine that you have to pull the starter motor off to get at the gearshift linkage to drop the gearbox - 40/50 OMC 2 stroke carbed, or takes you half an hour sometimes to get the gearshift linkage back in place on some of the OMC V4 & V6's?

How dumb is it to design an engine that has not been fully tested properly before released and send you broke: Ficht. #:) ;)

How clever is it to design an engine with an offset driveshaft so you can swing larger diameter props to give better holeshot and superior thrust (great for cats) without having to have a bigger less streamlined gearcase (i.e bigfoot) or running camchains under the powerhead that run in a constant oil bath and last the life of the engine and makes a 4 stroke outboard that only weighs 186kgs and puts out 140 horsepower. Yes I'm talking about the Suzi DF140. #;D ;D ;D

[Kerry]

....offset driveshaft so you can swing larger diameter props to give better holeshot and superior thrust (great for cats)....

Your not all that clued up on Cats are you :o

You know there are pro's and con's with everything and now I'm waiting for the statement that says a 4S fuel consumption pays for the initial cost and service difference ;D

And obviously you've a workshop jock and never had to pull the plugs at sea ;) See you have too look beyond all the brochures and gooble gook sales blurbs as the real world is something quite different.

Regards, Kerry.

[Kopey]

I repowered the Hervey bay 24ft Noosa cat VMR rescue cat here with 2 x DF225's, a 28ft Powercat 2 x DF225's (owner Adam Vieglas), a 29ft Streamline cat 2 x DF140's (Toby Pholy's), a 24ft Kevlacat 2 x DF140's (Dan Smith Hotondo homes) just to name a few.

How many cats have you repowered Kerry that makes you such an expert? #;D ;D ;D ;D

[Kopey]

I have pulled the plugs out of Steve's twin DF115's many a time on the water, if you use the plug spanner supplied with the Suzuki toolkit you get when you buy one, you can easily access the bottom plug without removing the bottom cowls on any DF90/115/140 (any owners here try it for yourself).

I think you should shut up before talking about something you don't know about. As you said: "get in the real world" ;D ;D

[Kerry]

The term "holeshot" is a wank and people who base performance relative to props with regard "holeshot" well ....... if the shoe fits ....! leave that one with the yanks.

Oh cats ;) enough to know the difference from as far back as 1972 :D

[Kopey]

Holeshot refers to the speed at which a boat comes out of the water on plane from standing start. The ability to swing larger diameter props does make a difference in a cat application, just ask any of the VMR skippers here, the difference with the 16" dia props as opposed to what the 225 Yamies previously had was big. You'll probably find people on here that use motors with big foots for cat applications i.e 60 Yamie 4 strk High Thrust, same pricinple.

So how many cats have you fitted out recently Kerry? ;D

[Kerry]

This fixation with "holeshots" and wanting to run bigger props for thrust? especially where Cats are involved and especially with ones that do a lot of towing is pure americanised BS.

"Holeshots" can't stand the term >:(

[Kerry]

So how many cats have you fitted out recently Kerry? #

So maybe you better tell me how many is enough #;D to know the difference.

Just what every rescue Cat requires is a "holeshot" BS

[Kerry]

These 140 4S's going on to KC2400's? One would have to call that HP over kill as there is no way they require twin 140's but for new comers I suppose most have this fixation with speed and "holeshots".

I know the argument is always extra HP at no extra weight but really for what purpose, what does it achieve?

[Kopey]

So you had a shot at the bottom cowl design on the DF90/115/140 BS, then had a go at how hard you think it is to get at the bottom plug on a DF140, more BS, and now it basically comes down to the fact you have a problem with using the term "holeshot." Such an expert hey, Get over yourself Kerry. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Like they say, "Don't argue with fools, they'll only bring you down to their level and beat you with their experience." ;D ;D

[Kopey]

These 140 4S's going on to KC2400's? One would have to call that HP over kill as there is no way they require twin 140's but for new comers I suppose most have this fixation with speed and "holeshots".

I know the argument is always extra HP at no extra weight but really for what purpose, what does it achieve? # #

Ask owners Dan Smith of Hotondo homes who owns one here I fitted, or Dan Dendle here who also owns a KC2400 with 2 x DF140's I service, or Fraser Coast sand and Gravel who also have a KC2400 I service and have a pair of DF140's. They all feel well balanced as far as I'm concerned, better to have a bigger engine that that just cruises along then a smaller engine that struggles. Just as economical to run a set of 140's at 4000rpm's then a pair of 100's at 5000 to achieve the same speed.

[Kerry]

Well seeing you had "fitted" all these 140's I thought you might have known? So it's all to do with speed then? and in any case you wouldn't be running 100's but 115's as the 130/140's that a few KC were fitted with really were not "balanced" at all. For sure go like a scalded cat but totally wasted.

[Kerry]

It would be interesting to see some of these same 140 Cat 4S's in 15-16 years time? Do you think these 140's will see out 15-16 years before replacement?

Regards, Kerry.

[Spaniard_King]

Kopey,

Can you explain the Suzi 5 year warranty?? Seems Suzi's outside of Aus only have 3 years. Is Haines picking up the extra 2 years warranty?? What will happen to the extra warranty if Suzi takes the distributorship back from Haines and moves back into Aus??

Just Currious

Garry

[hphero]

Gary,

Suzuki's 5 year warranty is a full factory warranty. I called and asked the direction direct. They also told me that the 5 year warranty is now available in New Zealand also.

Have a look on the US website like i did. They have 6 in the USA.

Just curious, why don't you call and ask haines the questions yourself???????

Hopes this helps your curiosity.

[hphero]

sorry, ment i aksed the questions direct. Best way to know what the go is.

[Spaniard_King]

Gary,

Just curious, why don't you call and ask haines the questions yourself???????

.

Cause I herd different :o People in the game tend to hear things the general public don't. Are you in the game HP hero :)

Garry

[Ron173]

I have pulled the plugs out of Steve's twin DF115's many a time on the water, if you use the plug spanner supplied with the Suzuki toolkit you get when you buy one, you can easily access the bottom plug without removing the bottom cowls on any DF90/115/140 (any owners here try it for yourself).

I think you should shut up before talking about something you don't know about. As you said: "get in the real world" #;D ;D

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Sorry gotta laugh!!!
This is on the 'power for the revolution' Suzuki bandwagon..... hee hee hee
I never ever had to take the plugs outta my rude!!! never mind on the water ha ha ha #;D ;D ;D ;D
must just be a Kopey fix up eh #;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

And whilst I'm here on this board I dont frequent much (I wonder why with posts like this...NOT) I cant believe Kopey is being confrontational with another member????

SO OUT OF CHARACTER.........NOT ;D ;D

(awaiting the now standard ban for replying to this idiot.......and if so just delete me permanently..... I care not)

[Kopey]

Steve racks up more hours then you'd ever dream of, and his boat is untrailerable and spends most of it's time in the water so on water maintenance is not uncommon. The servicing schedule for plugs is every 400 hours, he's racked up over 4000 hence the plug changes.

An Etec as advertised has a scheduled service of either after 3 years or 300 hours. You obviously haven't racked up 300 hrs yet as the plugs would usually be one of the first things I'm sure the technician would be pulling out and checking. #;)

[Kopey]

Well seeing you had "fitted" all these 140's I thought you might have known? So it's all to do with speed then? and in any case you wouldn't be running 100's but 115's as the 130/140's that a few KC were fitted with really were not "balanced" at all. For sure go like a scalded cat but totally wasted. # #

Dan Smith's KC2400 use to have 2 x 115 2 strks and with his current setup now (2 x DF140's) he is burning less than half the fuel he used to as well as no oil. Aswell as being alot more economical his rig sits well in the water, the DF140's only weigh 188kgs. They are actually lighter than the 90's and 115's by a couple of kilos.

[Ron173]

Fair comment Kopey.

I'll suck back on that comment.

Ron

[Kopey]

Any news yet Eagle Eye?????

[Kopey]

Well seeing you had "fitted" all these 140's I thought you might have known? So it's all to do with speed then? and in any case you wouldn't be running 100's but 115's as the 130/140's that a few KC were fitted with really were not "balanced" at all. For sure go like a scalded cat but totally wasted. # #

Important to note too that I didn't fit the other the other 2 KC2400's if you read more carefully. They were actually in house Kevlacat cat fit outs. Perhaps you know better than the boat builders themselves. ;D ;D

[Kerry]

So it is the "boat builders" that know? Say Kopey who designed the 2400?

[Kopey]

No just the boat builder's who fitted it and the one's who specified the max recommended horsepower rating on it dopey. #;D

[brettski3]

you bitches should relax, four strokes rule and who gives acrap if there a ####ing suzi or yammy or what, kopey you r a suzi man so just admit you are biased. you attract criticism with your comments

[Kopey]

Fourstroker man through and through just like if I was to buy a 60hp tommorow it'd have to be a Yammie cos I know it's the best in it's class, read the posts more buddy, I just say it how I see it, nothing more.

Always amazes me what these internet heros can say behind their keyboards, yet meet them face to face and they cr@p themselves. ##

P.S: comment intended to the people who are just here to annoy rather than post about the actual topic. #>:(

[brettski3]

hmmm.....not cool mate, your attitude needs to be assessed, inflamatory remarks such as this are not necessary. the hero here seems to be yourself.

insert smiley, laughing, etc face for effect

[Kopey]

I find the remark,"you bitches," inflammatory too, How bout contributing more positive comments related to the actual topic,"4 strokes for a cat."

Do agree I spose, just let this expert here have his day. ;D

[lippa]

Fourstroker man through and through just like if I was to buy a 60hp tommorow it'd have to be a Yammie cos I know it's the best in it's class, read the posts more buddy, I just say it how I see it, nothing more.

Always amazes me what these internet heros can say behind their keyboards, yet meet them face to face and they cr@p themselves. ;D ;D ;D #


lets meet... and discuss the finer points of outboard observation.

cheers

lippa

not an internet hero

[Kopey]

Not a problem lippa. #

Work at 5/8 Boatharbour drive Hervey Bay QLD 4655, pay a visit whenever you like.

[flotsom]

lippa is a big man, you are game pulling that on, hay kopey, just wondering if you feel that trouble seems to find you on every thread? may be it's just everyone else hay?

[Kopey]

Can't wait for him to pay a visit.

I never directed that comment at him but if he feels the need to take a shot then bring it on. I'm not just going to sit here being insulted by this other @ss h@*e so called expert Kerry telling me how I should do my job. #>:(

I see he's still too gutless to even answer a simple question.

Okay coward I'll put it to you plain and simple, What do you do for a job?

By the way it's just after the first round about as you come in the Bay, see you there.

[Kopey]

And obviously you've a workshop jock and never had to pull the plugs at sea #;) See you have too look beyond all the brochures and gooble gook sales blurbs as the real world is something quite different.



In the meantime don't continue bleating about KC's you've shown you know jack schitt about 'em, fitted a few so what! no big deal and 140 anything's on a 2400 is nothing more than a "holeshot" wank!



....offset driveshaft so you can swing larger diameter props to give better holeshot and superior thrust (great for cats)....

Your not all that clued up on Cats are you :o


Says Kerry who does what for a living???

[Kopey]

I raised this topic a few months ago, and after lots of research etc, I decided to repower my 5.2m Kevlacat. I have just put the boat in for its first service after the repower, and thought I would fill you in on the performance/details etc. Its got 2006 model EFI High Thrust 60hp Yamahas onit, and it goes bloody well! Compared to the 2 strokes (70 hp yamahas), its performance out of the hole is almost as good, I get 30kts WOT, and cruises around the 23-25kt mark at around 4500- 4700rpm. These power settings are almost identical to the 70hp 2 strokes. WOT is reving out at 5800rpm (target from yamaha is between 5300-6000rpm).
We have changed the original dinner plate sized props with 15 inch alloys ( at the moment), although after speaking to a few guys from the fishing club, I may put a couple of solas s/steel ones onit.
The ultimate test was a few weekends ago, when we went over to Tangalooma for the day with my brother and his boat. His boat, "Tanjian", is an identical 5.2m kevlacat with 70hp 2 strokes onit. It has identical fuel tank size, and set up, so it was a perfect comparison between the two. Heath had 2 extra people #in his boat, but otherwise we were pretty much identical.
After crossing the bar at Caloundra, we headed straight out towards Moreton.We both sat on about 24kts all the way. The first big thing we all noticed was the noise!! Or lack of it with the 4 strokes!! We, ( on #Obsession) were able to listen to the stereo all the way over, compared to the crew in Tanjian who had to yell at each other everytime they wanted to speak.
We went from Caloundra bar across to Moreton, cruised around the wrecks for a swim etc, then down to the resort for lunch and a few more drinks. Then it was back up the inside of the passage through the narrows back to the ramp at the coast guard.
We filled both boats straight away, and the results were amazing!! Heath put 120l in Tanjian, and I put the grand total of 68l in mine!!! Almost half, which surprised the bloody lot of us.
A couple of days later, we loaded the boats up and headed out to the banks for a snapper session. Same boats, same weights etc , and the same results. ( By the way, we both got a heap of snapper as well!!)
So overall, I am very happy with the boat and performance I am getting with the new donks.
I know there was a few other blokes looking at doing the repower as well, and all I can say is do it!!! You wont be dissapointed!!
I wouldnt be surprised if the brother also does it to Tanjian in the very near future.

Regards

Trent

As I mentioned about the 60 Yamie High Thrusts earlier which according to Kerry just give "holeshot w@nk."


Holeshot refers to the speed at which a boat comes out of the water on plane from standing start. The ability to swing larger diameter props does make a difference in a cat application, just ask any of the VMR skippers here, the difference with the 16" dia props as opposed to what the 225 Yamies previously had was big. You'll probably find people on here that use motors with big foots for cat applications i.e 60 Yamie 4 strk High Thrust, same pricinple.

So how many cats have you fitted out recently Kerry? #;D

Comment made directly after:


This fixation with "holeshots" and wanting to run bigger props for thrust? especially where Cats are involved and especially with ones that do a lot of towing is pure americanised BS.

"Holeshots" can't stand the term >:(

[Deiter]

well well, it seems some people are prepared to not only show their true colours, but back them up as well.

Kopey, as far as Kerry is concerned, he is a very smart man. way too smart for you and i to even comprehend. unfortunately he is also a bit of a toss who prefers instead to use his wisdom to intimidate and harrass others.
Shame really, i feel he could be really helpfull if he wasn't so upset at someone or something all the time.

now, he will come back and say that he is only reacting to everyone elses conceived stupidity (me included, and anyone who doesn't know as much or agree with him).

so c'mon Kerry, its obvious to a fool like me that Kopey is a young guy who loves boats and has been able to amass quite a bit of knowledge about them in his early years, and has formed opinions based on what he has experienced.
Personnaly, i don't don't blame him for being biased towards Suzi's. i don't and have never owned one, but if i had the option, i would get a df140 tomorrow. Its fine to label them crap if you want, but all things being relative, tell me what they are crap compared to? What beats them hands down.

Kerry, i just think you could be a bit more constructive with what you have to say, instead of coming out like a cornered badger in heavy period.

and pls, before you respond to anything else, give us a bit of background on what you do for a living. You never know, just might help your cause. :)

Damo

[Kopey]

Anyone here read back on Kerry's posts on this thread and tell me what he's said that is of any use, is informative, or shows he knows what he's actually talking about.

[Deiter]

Kopey, often i think he really does know what he's talking about. but he is just not a good communicator, if you know what i mean. :)

Damo

[Kerry]

and pls, before you respond to anything else, give us a bit of background on what you do for a living. You never know, just might help your cause.

Not a dam thing to do with you either Deiter but my advice is when all else fails don't start with the smart ar$e attitude, that's not any better than your mate. Your just being narky and that's your problem.

But the thing you obviously don't understand either Deiter is a 2400 KC does not require 140's, was never really designed for that power and people who think they require 140's are only in it for the holeshot wank. You know the types who think they always have to be in front.

A 2400 is ideally suited to 115's and can actually use that power properly but in the case of suzzie the 115 is a stretched 90, which is a bit ar$e about face with other makes as the bottom end of the HP bracket in any engine is always going to be the better option.

'ol kopey here has says a lot of different things but can't even justify them to himself, reckon 115's go good on 28' 3.5 tonne powercats and yet thinks a 2400KC requires 140's, load of crap Deiter! Probably both of you need a bit of sea experience in a Cat to know the difference.

And if my memory serves me correct? Did someone mention what the top speed of the 2400 with 140's was? Tell me again ;)

Regards, Kerry.
#

[leezor]

Kerry, if I was to spend that much on a 2400 KC I would opt for the maximum rated HP, would prefer to be overpowered than to struggle along with a belly full of fuel, esky full of beer and 6 blokes on board.

Just my opinion

[Kerry]

Leezor, If you did spend that much of a 2400 then you would realize that the 140's were a waste of space even with the bigger fuel tank option. I can guarantee you a 2400 with 500 litres does not struggle with 115's. Some of the 2300's that were fitted with 140's was simply a waste of power on just about every day of the week.

An interesting comparison is the 2100 with 70 4S, which goes well, yet for an extra foot they think they need twice the HP?

For the DF140 engine nobody as yet has been able to indicate at what RPM this HP is achieved. WOT rev range is not an indication of where max HP is reached. Running a 4S is entirely different to a 2S as revs don't really worry a 2S but none of the 4S's are meant to run full bikkie.

[saurian]

I suppose you over power cats when under powering them will cost you nearly the same or more if it is a different brand.
Overpowering , not much point unless the advantages outway the disadvantages.
I think some owners out there did there homework ( which they do)
before they parted with the cold hard cash that we don't seem to have anymore.
Note I tried not to refer to any particular brand name.
I love 4 strokers but at the moment I have 2 stroke black anchors.
When some cold hard ones come along , I'll be buying me some
4 strokers that best suit my needs .
Not from some advertising gimic etc.....
I think Kopey is well aware of the above .
I think some people who use this site are not....
Ta....

[leezor]

In the mid 90's we had a 328 Powercat with twin 165hp Diesels, and it always felt underpowered. The 165's where the minimum rec and it wasn't until a few years down the track they came out standard with the 200hp.
From this experience I would prefer to spend more up front and be overpowered than have to repower because it saved a few bucks initially.
Again, this is my opinion and am speaking from my personal experience.

Cheers,

Lee

[Kopey]

'ol kopey here has says a lot of different things but can't even justify them to himself, reckon 115's go good on 28' 3.5 tonne powercats and yet thinks a 2400KC requires 140's, load of crap Deiter! Probably both of you need a bit of sea experience in a Cat to know the difference.

If customer's want to go put 2 x DF140's on they're Kevlacats for which their rated to then why the f#@! cant they? Where here have I said that KC2400's need 2 x DF140's. Where does a tosser liker you get off on making all this BS up???

What does this so called expert do for a living???

[Kopey]

Perhaps I should talk to my mate Dan here who actually owns one of these KC2400 with 2 X DF140's and you can explain to him why his set up is as you are trying to say "unbalanced," or some BS like that.


Well seeing you had "fitted" all these 140's I thought you might have known? So it's all to do with speed then? and in any case you wouldn't be running 100's but 115's as the 130/140's that a few KC were fitted with really were not "balanced" at all. For sure go like a scalded cat but totally wasted.

[JB]

HA, "Kerry" thought u left mate, why dont u do everyone a favour and just piss off again.

[seafarer3]

Hey Julian 1,

Our 21 ft cuddy cab Noosa Cat ( VMR JACOB'S WELL ) had 2 x 140 Suzy's
behind her.
There was good power to weight performance.
We only went to 150's for the towing side of it...
Hope this helps

Cheers
Scott

[Heath]

hehe I love these types of threads.......


PS. I love the holeshot of my Cruisecraft with a 175 yammie on ass :-*

[Kerry]

HA, "Kerry" thought u left mate, why dont u do everyone a favour and just piss off again.

Yeah JB,

Now that might not be a bad suggestion as not only are the same old same old dickheads still carrying on like dickheads but you've also acquired more dickheads into the fray. Dickheads are like ants they keep running around like a pack of scavengers trying to pick up the pieces.

[JB]

Yeah JB,

Now that might not be a bad suggestion as not only are the same old same old dickheads still carrying on like dickheads but you've also acquired more dickheads into the fray. Dickheads are like ants they keep running around like a pack of scavengers trying to pick up the pieces.


HAHA, ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Im ON!

All too easy :P

[julian1]

Hey Julian 1,

Our 21 ft cuddy cab Noosa Cat ( VMR JACOB'S WELL ) had 2 x 140 Suzy's
behind her.
There was good power to weight #performance.
We only went to 150's for the towing side of it...
Hope this helps

Cheers
Scott

thanks Scott finally someone with experience in what I am asking. i am assuming your Noosacat is a similar model to mine. Did you think the boat is better overall with the 140's or 150's eg weight distribution, power etc ? were the 140 underpowered in your opinion ?

[Deiter]

The term "holeshot" is a wank


funy that, i would have thought that "holeshot" was a pretty important safety factor during bar crossings. Nothing worse than a rig that bogs down getting onto the plane. been there, done that.
Maybe you don't consider it very important because you are too good to get into trouble.

In general, it is people who drive Datsuns and Volvo's (and cane harvesters) that think "holeshot is a wank".

Damo. :)

p.s. If a hull can handle the weight and still perform, why not use the biggest h.p. you can afford. Just coz' the power's there doesn't mean you have to use it all the time.

pps. df140 - 140hp @ what revs? i too am interested. Where can we get torque curves for motor comparisons????

[Decimator]

kerry have u got any commercial tickets ? im trying hard to fathom ur experience and expertise on everything. surely u havent gained it all driving a 6 m cat fishing on weekends ? c'mon. give me something. A master 5 ? 4 ? i just cant take you seriously

[Rod_Bender]

I love the blokes who sit behind their PC screens and brand certain people Dickheads. I admire those people who provide constructive analysis and are prepared to stand on their two feet to use genuine fact to decipher a point(s). One particular point I show extreme dislike to is the lack of some balls especially behind a PC screen. It’s these same people I encounter at boat ramps that yell abuse from fast moving car windows exiting a boat ramp scene. They never stand there and illustrate why you actually deserved that verbal abuse in the first place. Kerry, a guy who provides evidence as an endorsement to what they have communicated will be often more times then not believed – your industry.

[Deiter]

Well put Rod-Bender.

Maybe he was bullied at school or something... :-X

shame he can't be more constructive.

Damo

p.s. holeshot,holeshot,holeshot,holeshot...

[Deiter]

Yeah JB,

Now that might not be a bad suggestion as not only are the same old same old dickheads still carrying on like dickheads but you've also acquired more dickheads into the fray. Dickheads are like ants they keep running around like a pack of scavengers trying to pick up the pieces.


HAHA, ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Im ON!

All too easy #:P


Hey c'mon JB, Its not nice to tease. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[blaze]

I dont know why some of you Kerry Knockers dont just sit back and read, why does someones JOB DESCIPTION make them more or less Knowledgable in any field. I have a list of licences and deploma's as lomg as my arm but does that mean I am any better than the next man, just puts me on an equal footing with the drunk on the street corner because before I discuss any thing with him and source out his knowledge I still dont know things he knows.
cheers
blaze
ps
I dont know Kerry either, but try to read his thoughts and between the lines

[Kopey]

And obviously you've a workshop jock and never had to pull the plugs at sea #;) See you have too look beyond all the brochures and gooble gook sales blurbs as the real world is something quite different.



In the meantime don't continue bleating about KC's you've shown you know jack schitt about 'em, fitted a few so what! no big deal and 140 anything's on a 2400 is nothing more than a "holeshot" wank!


[quote]....offset driveshaft so you can swing larger diameter props to give better holeshot and superior thrust (great for cats)....

Your not all that clued up on Cats are you #:o


Read a little harder Blaze, I couldn't have really givin a sh*t what he did for a job but when he kept coming out with sh*t like this.

It's like if you worked as a Dairy farmer for a living and some pr*ck walked up to you and said "What the f*ck would you know about cows!"

This gutless pr*ck is good enough to criticize what I do for a living, yet couldn't answer my simple little question. As far as I'm concerned he's not worth the time of day.

[capt]

Now , Now , children ,enough of this arguing >:( I'm sure JULIAN 1 has all the info he needs at the moment ::) and you KOPEY MMMM ....well I'm sure you have kept us a little entertained this week, with this thread , and the one you created, but the rest of the the class has had enough , remember KOPEY.....this is a FISHING site , and a very popular one. We would'nt want guests to get the wrong impression now would we ? Go home tonight young man, and think of some thing interesting.... may be about your fishing experiences, that you are able to convey to all the class ;) If you have difficulty with this then , it might be a good idea to go and start your own site ... 8-).( I'm sure you have a few followers ) .... and leave the rest of us in peace AMEN Reguards to all Jimmy :)

[Decimator]

julian did u decide on engines ?

[hphero]

Jimmy,

correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't this the Boating section/chat forum of Ausfish?

I think Kopey can say what he likes, just like you have, and everybody else in this Boating section.........

People can leave the fishing stories for the fishing sections of Ausfish.

It may get out of hand at times, but hey, thats life.

[Ron173]

HPhero,

gotta agree!!

It shouldnt get outta hand and we should try keep it in check, but like you say, its a free forum for expressions, and sometimes that happens. (gets outta hand)

(me n Kopey have had our differences, but agreed to disagree and support our own theories, or so I think?? LOL),

but that said, its a discussion / chat and we should try our best to be as polite as we can whilst putting our point.

I know i have been guilty of 'Keyboard fever' before, but as you rightly say, each to his own virtues.

I can see Jimmy's point and he is merely trying to put a lid on things here.

However look at the viewing figures here!!

Cant say old Kopeys not kept us amused on this one!

I dare say hes now a popular guy in the fishing fraternity of Australia, with half wanting to shake his hand and the other half lining up to deck him!! LOL

I've had my issues with him, but the Aussie spirit would prob win me over to shake his hand if I ever met him...... provided he wasnt an arrogant p#$@k

Just another angle on what has been an addictive thread.

Maybe we should all just be thankful we are all still alive and enjoy the sport we all love......boating and fishing.

Rgds

Ron

[Kopey]

(me n Kopey have had our differences, but agreed to disagree and support our own theories, or so I think?? #LOL),

but that said, its a discussion / chat and we should try our best to be as polite as we can whilst putting our point.


Or we should hope to think so Ron! #;D ;D ;D




I have pulled the plugs out of Steve's twin DF115's many a time on the water, if you use the plug spanner supplied with the Suzuki toolkit you get when you buy one, you can easily access the bottom plug without removing the bottom cowls on any DF90/115/140 (any owners here try it for yourself).

I think you should shut up before talking about something you don't know about. As you said: "get in the real world" #;D ;D

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Sorry gotta laugh!!!
This is on the 'power for the revolution' Suzuki bandwagon..... hee hee hee
I never ever had to take the plugs outta my rude!!! never mind on the water ha ha ha #;D ;D ;D ;D
must just be a Kopey fix up eh #;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

And whilst I'm here on this board I dont frequent much (I wonder why with posts like this...NOT) I cant believe Kopey is being confrontational with another member????

SO OUT OF CHARACTER.........NOT ;D ;D

(awaiting the now standard ban for replying to this idiot.......and if so just delete me permanently..... I care not)




Steve racks up more hours then you'd ever dream of, and his boat is untrailerable and spends most of it's time in the water so on water maintenance is not uncommon. The servicing schedule for plugs is every 400 hours, he's racked up over 4000 hence the plug changes.

An Etec as advertised has a scheduled service of either after 3 years or 300 hours. You obviously haven't racked up 300 hrs yet as the plugs would usually be one of the first things I'm sure the technician would be pulling out and checking. #;)

[Spaniard_King]

Kopey,

Could you please explain your need to keep re-quoting over and over again ::)

Garry

[Kopey]

As some people seem to have a short memory (i.e: Ron). #;D ;D

A genuine concern for you Garry or just an ego thing??? #;D ;D ;D


I don't see the need to feed some peoples ego's

[Alex9797]

Ah yeah now I get it............ dooh..... Kopey likes suzuki outboards and kerry likes a good argument.....

silly me ;D ;D


Alex

[julian1]

julian did u decide on engines ?

I think I will heading down the path of Suzy 140's hopefully trying to find a second hand pair anything up to approx 1000hrs. I think the boat will be best suited to the most horsepower (4 stroke) weight will allow and reckon that 190kg's will be a perfect balance. Obviously Kerry is not from down south where we get big swells and chop and having an underpowered boat is dangerous. The current set up with twin 130 two strokes is just about the perfect power but even some days a bit more would be handy when fully loaded heading to the shelf (50km's one way down here) let alone bar crossings. I have been in a 2400 KC that had 115 two strokes and it was pretty good, so there fore 140 4 strokes would be about perfect for them when you take 4 stroke power curve into account.

[Spaniard_King]

As some people seem to have a short memory (i.e: Ron). #;D ;D

A genuine concern for you Garry or just an ego thing??? #;D ;D ;D


I don't see the need to feed some peoples ego's



How the HELL could you come up with an EGO thingy from my last post. Take a good look at yourself. It' seems to me like your on here to annoy every person that "DOES NOT" own or wish to own a Suzuki outboard. You shove Suzuki's down everyones throat at every conceivable opertunity. Why you are aloud to persist is beyond me. I Haven't seen a post in the boating section where you have constructively helped someone without shoving anything else but SUZUKI'S down there throat.

Proove my PM to you (yeah the DH one) to be wrong!

Garry

[Deiter]

Personnaly, i think you have made the right deciscion Jules.\

Not nescesarily because you chose Suzuki's, but because of the power thing.

I had always been led to believe that there are 2 things that kill a cat's performance ;

a) too much weight on the @ss.
b) not enough hp to make the hulls 'work'.

Now i am not an expert on cats, but i have listened a lot to guys who seem to know what they are talking about and these two points seem to be common ground.

It is dissapointing that some (ok, only one) would rather have you 'Driving Miss Daisy'. Its your boat, power it and drive it to your preference.

If you can get more power on yours with less weight, that's gotta be a good thing. there'a always a limit, but in a cat that size, i believe you are right about on the money. ;)

Damo

Good Luck

[Kerry]

At least some admit lack of Cat experience #:D Good start. And I suppose 35 years ago that might have been close, not enough power for the designs of that time. Hey lastest news, times have changed #::)

And just for those that have never been in an "old" 20' SharkCat they are nothing similar to a NoosaCat 660. The original 20' SC was a 23' minus 3 feet and yes the engines of the times were 105 Chrslers #:o, yes flywheel HP and all and guess what they did the job and yes these were Coastguard boats.

The DF140's might be the lightest 140 $S but they are still not light enough and the extra 60kg over and above stock 115 2S's is 60kg to many. #

[Deiter]

Kerry are NC's that much lighter that hp is not needed, is that your point?

still trying to fathom how a 6.6m cat could be at its best with your recomended 115hp?

I have seen many 6m and even 5.5 cats that the owners said need at least twin 115's to perform.

Remember, he wants 4strokes too, so he can't even get 115's that are any lighter than the df140's
preparing to be corrected :-X

[Kerry]

There are Cats then there are Cats but don't believe the KC blurb with weight based on Kevla as they are not as light as some would have you believe.

The biggest weight component comes from over use of resin as it is resin that adds the weight without any strength benefit.

The 2300 was sold in 3 models with 70's, 90's and 115's, forget the 70's, the 90's did the job fairly well but the 115's were what they go best with. 140's on a 2300 was completely overboard and a total waste of money and power. The 2400 is basically no different.

Quite frankly some people will tell you anything. KC'S compared to some other makes do it totally different and don't forget a 2400KC is still only a 21 foot boat with the 2800 being a 23 foot boat, not 28 foot as many believe.

[Decimator]

[quote author=Kerry link=1159750366/120#126 date=1163115838]At least some admit lack of Cat experience #:D Good start. And I suppose 35 years ago that might have been close, not enough power for the designs of that time. Hey lastest news, times have changed #::)

- what cat experience do you have ?
- What sort of cat do you own ?

extremely interested. your lack of cat/ power plant options was higlighted in the ridiculous post you put to me regarding twin 250 suzuki 4's on my 35 Noosa Cat. You have yet to supply me with #the hard evidence (power/weight comparissions) (inboard/vs outboard) as to a better power plant option for this type of vessel. Im still waiting... It is for this reason i find your credibility to be flawed. Post a picture of YOUR perfect cat /power plant setup. I would be extremely interested to go over it, as would a few other cat owners on here. thankyou.


Until you post up the picture and specs of YOUR CAT with its perfect weight/power distribution please keep your uneducated 'CAT' experience/ground breaking technological power/weight/design theories to your arm chair recliner.

[Decimator]

there is no need to spin some more bullshit about the topic...just post up a picture and let me know what cats youve driven, whether commerical / recreational, what size, and what conditions. cheers

[Deiter]

Fish Guts... I wish you luck :)

[julian1]

At least some admit lack of Cat experience #:D Good start. And I suppose 35 years ago that might have been close, not enough power for the designs of that time. Hey lastest news, times have changed #::)

And just for those that have never been in an "old" 20' SharkCat they are nothing similar to a NoosaCat 660. The original 20' SC was a 23' minus 3 feet and yes the engines of the times were 105 Chrslers #:o, yes flywheel HP and all and guess what they did the job and yes these were Coastguard boats.

The DF140's might be the lightest 140 $S but they are still not light enough and the extra 60kg over and above stock 115 2S's is 60kg to many. #


Kerry the current yammies I have are 170kg's then plus 10litres of oil (i know the oil is not hanging off the pods but) so the motor difference is 20 kg per motor, also Suzuki has the offset drive shaft enabling the powerhead to be further forward. Yes I do agree my cat is almost perfectly balanced at the moment and this is the purpose of my original post. I did initiall y think of Optimax's and etecs but I think I really want 4 strokes and it looks like Suzy's are the only one. can anyone give me some examples of this sort of boat with 4 strokes - a weighty issue. I did speak with Noosacat and they reckon the weight will be fine they even hava a few out there with the Yammie 150's now that probably would be overpowered and over weighted but they said they performed fine. Also Kerry remember my particular cat was built to and was in Survey so it is a bit heavier than standard.

[Spaniard_King]

there is no need to spin some more bullshit about the topic...just post up a picture and let me know what cats youve driven, whether commerical / recreational, what size, and what conditions. cheers

Fish Guts, it seems like your not interested in helping Julian and Kerry is. Maybe you should just pull your head in at let the discussion continue about the topic

Garry

[blaze]

there is already pics of kerry's cat on this forum, at least from the treiler perspective.
cheers
blaze
ps
they were put up to help someone with a trailer problem if I remember correctly

[Decimator]

he wasnt trying to convince them of converting it into a friggin gooseneck was he

[Kerry]

there is no need to spin some more bullshit about the topic...just post up a picture and let me know what cats youve driven, whether commerical / recreational, what size, and what conditions. cheers

Fish Guts, it seems like your not interested in helping Julian and Kerry is. Maybe you should just pull your head in at let the discussion continue about the topic

Garry

Gary,

It would appear the current crop of Jack boot brigade hyprocrites have more interest in covering their own inadequacies and lack of depth. The attitudes that some of these characters are portraying quite frankly leaves a lot to be desired as their totally negative attitude simply does not rate a response and what's more I don't have to justify myself just because some bleating sheep demands.

The way some of these characters act tends to highlight a general lack of confidence and would rather attempt to attack others than actually help anybody. Their attitude leaves a lot to be desired with much of thier totally irrelvant and useless comments

So for the jack boot johnny's your attitudes deserve nothing less than totally ignoring unless of course you want to talk sense, make sense and leave your stinking attitudes at the door.

Regards, Kerry.

[Kerry]

there is already pics of kerry's cat on this forum, at least from the treiler perspective.
cheers
blaze
ps
they were put up to help someone with a trailer problem if I remember correctly

Nothing will satisfy this mob of hyprocrites, this is quite obvious by their stupid attempts at provoking comments they jump from thread to thread.

[Kerry]

Julian,

Yes your current 115 yammies are basically the heaviest 2S's made. This figure of what ever it is for DF140's (something like 186kg?) is this for the 25" motors or the standard leg? I would like to know the actual weight of a DF140 as it would actually sit on the boat.

I can't recall if you have mentioned it but is your 660 podded or not?

There is a 2400KC here that went from 115 jonno's to 115 yammie 4S and it does sit down a little more at rest and you can relate this to the top of the KC pod and top mounting bolts but of course yours is a NC.

One issue with these little cats and weight on the stern is that every little bit puts then further into the water and I for one would like to see 30" motors but of course the demand is not going to be there. With the weight stuck out the back like it is on each corner and a few hundred litres of fuel a side when it's a bit sloppy the cowls are almost being rolled (slowly) under. Does the 660 do this when drifting sideways in a slop?

Regards, Kerry.
#

[PinHead]

And obviously you've a workshop jock and never had to pull the plugs at sea #;) See you have too look beyond all the brochures and gooble gook sales blurbs as the real world is something quite different.



In the meantime don't continue bleating about KC's you've shown you know jack schitt about 'em, fitted a few so what! no big deal and 140 anything's on a 2400 is nothing more than a "holeshot" wank!


[quote]....offset driveshaft so you can swing larger diameter props to give better holeshot and superior thrust (great for cats)....

Your not all that clued up on Cats are you #:o


Read a little harder Blaze, I couldn't have really givin a sh*t what he did for a job but when he kept coming out with sh*t like this.

It's like if you worked as a Dairy farmer for a living and some pr*ck walked up to you and said "What the f*ck would you know about cows!"

This gutless pr*ck is good enough to criticize what I do for a living, yet couldn't answer my simple little question. As far as I'm concerned he's not worth the time of day. #



I'll give you a lil tip kopey...take it on board or not...BUT..as soon as you start using expletives in your debate you immediately lose credibility..plus challenging people to drive there to meet you and "discuss" is also rather childish. By all means debate the subject based on your experiences but leave the childish name calling out...it only belittles you..no one else. If, as your profiles says, you are 23, believe me....you have a lot of learning to do in the trade. I have been in my trade before you were born and I am constantly learning still.

Back on the topic...I looked at about a 7m Markham cat about 18 months back and decided against buying one...so no experience with cats but it sure has been an intersting read.

[julian1]

Julian,

Yes your current 115 yammies are basically the heaviest 2S's made. This figure of what ever it is for DF140's (something like 186kg?) is this for the 25" motors or the standard leg? I would like to know the actual weight of a DF140 as it would actually sit on the boat.

I can't recall if you have mentioned it but is your 660 podded or not?

There is a 2400KC here that went from 115 jonno's to 115 yammie 4S and it does sit down a little more at rest and you can relate this to the top of the KC pod and top mounting bolts but of course yours is a NC.

One issue with these little cats and weight on the stern is that every little bit puts then further into the water and I for one would like to see 30" motors but of course the demand is not going to be there. With the weight stuck out the back like it is on each corner and a few hundred litres of fuel a side when it's a bit sloppy the cowls are almost being rolled (slowly) under. Does the 660 do this when drifting sideways in a slop? #

Regards, Kerry.
#

Kerry if you have a look at the original post you will see the floating pic, yes it has pods and no at the moment the powerheads don't go under unless a really bad sea with two sea anchors out even then its really no worse than a monohull. I agree with your statement about the 140's and I would love to see one in the water, I have seen pics of the newer 2300 NC with Suzy 140's and they seem to be floating ok in the rear. The pods have the same boyancy as mine according to Wayne Hennig. Yes cats do not like weight in the rear but i reckon the Suzy's would be ok but this is what my posthas been all about, surely there are some more people out there who have upgraded their cats to 4 stroke ?

[Kopey]

By all means debate the subject based on your experiences but leave the childish name calling out...it only belittles you..no one else. #



Now that might not be a bad suggestion as not only are the same old same old dickheads still carrying on like dickheads but you've also acquired more dickheads into the fray. Dickheads are like ants they keep running around like a pack of scavengers trying to pick up the pieces.

I'll take some of what you say on board Pinhead, as my old man says,"If you don't learn something every day it's a wasted day." Have a go at me all you want, I aint the only one at fault.

Ta, Ads ;)