Engine Update

[porky]

Hi

I,m considering updating my current outboard to one of the following:

200 Hp Evinrude E-Tec, or

200 HP Honda.

Can anbody provide any information that might help me make up my mind

[vapour_trail]

I've got a 200 suzi and would recommend it,plenty of hole shot and speed and economy and quiet and 5 years warranty.

cheers mickey.

[Croweater]

I recently replaced my 175 Suzuki with a 175 E-tec and from what I can see, it is better on fuel, has a faster top speed and better hole shot.

[Croweater]

OOPS, I double posted, sorry

[Spaniard_King]

Porky,

cant you get a ride in a boat with these engines on it?/

if your close to me I can get you in a Honda (might be a 225 tho)

If your gunna race it the Etec will be for you but else where the Honda will beat or at least match the Etec in performance

cheers

Garry

[wessel]

Have you worked out life cycle cost, let us say over three to four years for both engines?
How many people in your area can service these brutes?
Do you have to take the engines to them, or will they do it at the marina or at your home?
What kind of spares do they carry for the engines? Fast moving spares only, but can order stuff in that will take X amount of days.

Once you have done all of that, ask your better half which colour she likes the most and then get that one. ;D

Wessel

[dfox]

I recently replaced my 175 Suzuki with a 175 E-tec and from what I can see, it is better on fuel, has a faster top speed and better hole shot.

Eagle Eye, let me understand this? you had a 175 suzuki and recently replaced it!
There a newly released engine, how many hours did you do and why replace it? ...foxy

[Spaniard_King]

Foxy

A few of eagle eyes experiences are detailed here http://www.ausfish.com.au/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1159750366;start=all

cheers

Garry

[dfox]

Thanks garry...

[Sportfish_5]

Luv a good pub story ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[plat-a-puss]

there is a dvd out coparing the e tec merc and yam e tec wins in every aspect xcept price lol

[snelly1971]

We had a 2004 model Honda 225 on our dive boat....and had nothing but trouble....bloody oxygen sensors , one after the other....and heaps of other litltle crap going wrong...the motor was always serviced on time and had only done 800 hours before shitting itself finally....I have always been a YAMAHA Man....but the boat came with the HONDA....so beware ......Stick with the Best YAMAHA`S RULE........

[Kopey]

there is a dvd out coparing the e tec merc and yam e tec wins in every aspect xcept price lol


Yeah I love some of the lines like one of the yanks on it where he says,"I wouldn't recommend a fourstroke to anybody," ;D ;D ;D - Wonder what he tows his boat with. ;D ;D ;D

I throw it on anytime I want a laugh. ;D

Does anyone out there actually believe some of the tests put on it, i.e: 200 Yamie 4 strk only pullin half the speed of the 200 Etec? No one suss on the propping or setup of the Yamie? ;D

[Kopey]

We had a 2004 model Honda 225 on our dive boat....and had nothing but trouble....bloody oxygen sensors , one after the other....and heaps of other litltle crap going wrong...the motor was always serviced on time and had only done 800 hours before shitting itself finally....I have always been a YAMAHA Man....but the boat came with the HONDA....so beware ......Stick with the Best YAMAHA`S RULE........

I repowered the Hervey Bay VMR rescue cat up here that used to have a pair of 225 Yamie 4 strk's one of which hydrualic locked when momentarily buried in rough sea and bent 3 conrods. I repowered it with twin 225 Suzi 4 strokers and the difference was awesome. It used to have a top speed of 38 knots and now achieves 43 knots, they're 20% more economical and they have alot more grunt for towing.

The Suzis for start are a 3.6 litre engine as opposed to a 3 litre, the offset driveshaft design allows to swing alot larger diameter props which gives a big advantage on cats. ;)

[Kopey]

Hi

I,m considering updating my current outboard to one of the following:

200 Hp Evinrude E-Tec, or

200 HP Honda.

Can anbody provide any information that might help me make up my mind


I use to work at a dealer who sold Honda, (among other things) and fitted a couple of V6 Hondas (225 VTECs) while I was there, and must say were are a nice engine. They had around the same performance as the Yamies at the time, but more economical around cruise revs. The coupled I serviced never gave drama, I do remember a service bulletin coming out about earlier models requiring a new oil pump pick up but apart from that not much else. Checking the tappet clearances were a bit more time consuming too, (have to remove alot of covers).

If it was a choice between the two I'd go the Honda, etc: 5 year warranty, servicing costs may be more but counteracted somewhat by the expensive Etec XD100 oil are better resale value having better service history, and the fact fourstroke engines last alot longer & there's no substitute for regular maintanance (if performed correctly offcourse), and furthermore givin the Honda has an alot better track record (used with VMR groups aswell). #;)

If you want to go one better though you'd go the Suzuki who also offer a 5 year warranty and not based off a car engine but a fully redesigned marine engine which for starters is 600 cc's bigger.

As usual I don't wish to cause any arguments or upset anyone from what I've just said. I'm just merely expressing my opinion on the matter. (shouldn't have to put this but anyway).

Hope to be of assistance
Cheers Ads #;)

[Spaniard_King]

Kopey,

The Honda BF225's are a 3.5L engine (also 175 and 200's for that matter)

Garry

[hphero]

Garry,

The Honda 225 is 3,471cc

The Suzuki 225 is 3,614cc

Let's not get into the habit of rounding up. If that's the case the Suzuki is 3.7lt then.

Just the facts.

[Fishbait]

On the subject of motor life expectancy, can someone tell me what can one expect from a motor for the number of hours (life expectancy) before it dies.

I only have a 50hp 2 stroke Yamaha - a great motor and runs perfectly. A lot less horse power than you other guys are talking about, but would appreciate some idea on the number of hours I can expect to achieve with this motor while were on this subject.

[Spaniard_King]

Garry,

The Honda 225 is 3,471cc

The Suzuki 225 is 3,614cc

Let's not get into the habit of rounding up. If that's the case the Suzuki is 3.7lt then.

Just the facts.



gawd... touchy arnt we ::)

[Johnson_Jack]

Actually, on the subject of rounding HPHero, the next number is rounded to the NEAREST decimal place.

3471: the 1 goes down, = 347, the 7 goes up = 35,

So 3471cc actually rounds to 3500, so spaniard kings 3.5l is CORRECT.

Your Suzuki does NOT round to 3.7,

3614:- the 4 rounds down = 361, the 1 rounds down = 36, so its 3.6ltr even by rounding.

If your going to get pedantic....................... get it right.

I know this is petty but you started it!!!!

Your as bad as Dopey

[saurian]

Hey jack , i love it .

[KGW2]

Honda,Yamaha, Suzuki ??? ... Sounds like a Moto GP.

Dont think you can go far wrong with the Evinrude... As long as they still have some USA influence.
If they decide to go fully offshore, might as well subscibe to a good ocean towing service.

[Noelm]

hey fishbait, the life of a motor has been discussed before, and I can assure you, nearly ALL motors die of some terminal ailmaent years before they wear out, like a failed water pump, no oil, rust, something gets them before bearings and the like wear out. If properly maintained they should last nearly forever.

[Kopey]

Ment to put 100 cc's bigger, soooorrrryyy! #::) #143cc to be exact, sheez! the Suzis also 9 kgs lighter, for an extra 7 kgs on the Honda you can have a 4 litre Suzuki DF300! #;D ;D

Suzi DF225: 3614cc, 263kgs
Honda 225: 3471cc, 272kgs
Suzi DF300: 4028cc, 278.4172414kgs #;D ;D



Your as bad as Dopey


So Who are you calling Dopey? #;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


If you are set on Suzuki, why not buy the real engine, instead of the jap copy, buy the engine its based on, the Johnson.

That way you will have a better engine, better support, more readily available parts, and a network of dealers who have been in Australia for years, not like green suzuki copies.

Jack

Most suzukis are rebadged Johnsons

One wonders # ;) ;D

[Coontakinta]

for me, the fact that there is more than 30kg difference between the honda and the e-tec, the fact that the honda's maintenance costs would be astronomical compared with the e-tec, and the fact that both are as quiet and fuel frugal as each other lead me to believe the e-tec, to be the better choice between the two.

Oh, have to wonder if the fact that the honda is a 60 degree and the e-tec a 90 degree V6, wouldnt also make the e-tec a tade more powerful. Perhaps the fact that the honda has aroound 200 more CC's may counteract this. I dunno, but the the former points have me gunning for the "rude"

[Kopey]

Why pay big dollars for a two stroke trying to do what a 4 stroke does naturally?

If a DI 2 stroke has fewer moving parts than a 4 stroke (as advertised in Etec ad), why are they as expensive as a 4 stroke? (Why pay more for a cheaper engine?) #:-?

If a DI 2 stroke still has pistons and rings constanly sliding past ports and is using such tiny amounts of oil (7.2L per 100 hrs according to 200 Etec owner Waykel) how could it last longer than a 4 stroke?

If your cutting such a fine line making a 2 stroke use so little amounts of oil and burn so lean, how much less would it take for something to go wrong in a 3 years time when the warranty runs out.

If DI 2 stroke was the way to go why don't I see barely one in the millions of cars and vehicles on the road? Why don't any of the top car manufacturers use them?

If DI 2 stroke was the way to go, why did Mercury marine spend 245 million dollars on the fourstroke Verado project when they already had the DI 2 stroke Optimax's? #:-?

If Bombadier claim their DI 2 stroke Etecs are superior to 4 strokes why do their flagship model BRP Sea Doo jetskis use supercharged 4 strokes?

Is my resale value going to be as good as the Honda in 3 years time if I went to sell and it hadn't been serviced for 3 years?

Your servicing costs are dearer with the Honda but weigh it up with the resale (proven service history) and on going costs of XDS100 oil you require for the Etec ($70 per gallon here, cheaper elsewhere, or so has been told).

These would be some of the question I'd ask my self, porky before I spent big dollars on a 2 stroke instead of proven 4 stroke technology.

I'd find the 5 year warranty givin on the Honda and Suzuki would be more appealing too. #;)

[Kopey]

Another question (good one for dopey) would be why did Johnson/Evinrude feel the need to buy a heap of Suzuki's, spray paint them white and put their logo on them??? ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Another one I'd do porky if you do go to a Evinrude dealership is ask them if they'll match the 5 year warranty you'd get with the Honda. ;)

[PADDLES]

G'day Adam, just a few questions to your questions :)

do ya reckon that a di2s has less moving parts than a 4s? i'd have thought this to be true for a conventional 2s, but the mechanism acheiving the injection (either the optimax or etec technology) would be fairly complex wouldn't it?

do ya think that the fact that we don't see di2s in motor vehicles is because it is such new technology and it's basically easier to stick with 4s technology in vehicles?

was ron saritch's orbital motor design (that basically got shelved because of no manufacturers forward thinking and funding) basically a di2s?

is space/weight is not as big a consideration in motor vehicles as it is in boats so that's possibly why the technology (di2s) is not worth using in vehicles?

i think why you are paying more for a supposedly less complex motor (di2s) as compared to the 4s is that you are paying for the research/design of relatively new technology that's presently used nowhere else other than outboards. ie. 4s r&d would have a similar budget and much greater income and so has to be funded less by the consumer.

all of this aside though, when my time comes to repower i'll be buying a 4s simply because it's clean, proven technology. but the di2s's are looking better every day.

just my 2c worth ;D

[seafarer3]

200 HP SUZUKI....FOR SURE

rEGARDS
sCOTT

[Johnson_Jack]

Some people push the Dealership/sales bus a bit hard on here at times ,

I wonder if they are on a sales commission from Suzuki ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Kiktz]

Not given the price I have got on the 175 Suzi.

[Rod_Bender]

Go a yammy or the Suzi and you'll have a better chance of having trouble free ownership. Try and ring some outboard techs that are not associated with any brands in anyway for their opinion. I did in Townsville from the yellow pages and found a mobile outboard tech. He gave me honest up front advice 6 years ago and the brand he suggested has been trouble free used at least every fortnight since.

[Kopey]

all of this aside though, when my time comes to repower i'll be buying a 4s simply because it's clean, proven technology. but the di2s's are looking better every day.


Are the DI 2's really looking better every day? Technology like this may have it's teething problems, but this technology has been out for long enough now to have iron out the kinks or so one would think so. :-?

After the Ficht saga that sent OMC down the tube, we still here of owners such as Waykel with a new 200 Etec saying in his own words,"Had one blown up on me, but wouldn't have anything else on," which is fair enough but if it was me I wouldn't be too bl@@dy impressed after forking out 20+K for a motor!! Who gives a rats if they replaced it under warranty. What happens a few years down the track if it does it again??

A motor I worked on just recently a 50 Tohatsu TLDI, a 2003 model with only 110 hours on the clock wouldn't start. He'd tried other dealers previously elsewhere to try and solve the problem and finished up seeing me. I checked it out and it turned out to be a blown air compressor which was in a sad state. I chased up the local Tohie dealer here find an air compressor would cost him $1675!!! We're currently looking at rebuilding it for obvious reasons.

[Kopey]

Just so dopey knows, I'm just the bloke behind the spanners saying it how I see it. I aint the one crapping on here about what he thinks he knows. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Anyway it tends to be usually when a motor is first released they are usually at the top of their class, for instance the EFI Yamaha 60 4 strokes which are untouchable at the moment due to the fact Honda doesn't have any direct competition, and they are lighter than any other and just a great engine.

Nobody makes any thing that really competes with the Suzuki DF4/5/6's
Or the Tohatsu 9.8 fourstroke which has just recently been released, nothing that really compares to it at the moment.

As Suzuki had the upper hand against Yamaha and Honda as they already had their motors released so they could compare and go to make a motor that would be better like the 200 V6's.

Suzuki had actually postponed the release of the DF150/175 as they felt the Yamaha 150 4 stroke was really up there so they further refined it to be alot better to compete hence the result now:

4 strk Honda 150: 217kgs, 2354cc
4 strk Suzuki 150: 211kgs, 2867cc
4 strk Yamie 150 : 212kgs, 2670cc

It's only natural that manufacturers aren't going to waste their time coming out with a motor that they feel isn't quite as good as the current competition. The greatest difference between new engines at the moment has been between the 4 strokes and the DI 2 strokes.

Just some further thoughts anyway
Cheers Ads ;)

[PADDLES]

i think that you simply can't go past the power to weight ratio of a 2s in a marine application. that being said, the down side is that a conventional 2s is massively inefficient. if the newer technology allows di2s engines to have comparable efficiency (fuel in compared to energy out) to a 4s then i reckon it's a good thing.

you know how long the 4s and conventional 2s engine has been around for adam, you're a mechanic, they've been around since the turn of the last century and have been developed for that whole time. di2s technology has only been around for a handful of years and i think whilst there's teething problems (ficht etc.) in the past and for the moment, if they get them to be as reliable as the current ranges of 4s engines they'd be a much better marine engine. the only catch to this is what you've said earlier, rings going past a port are bound to catch eventually.

agree with you though, and i don't know the facts but if my brand new 200 etec blew up i'd be very much wanting to know exactly how it happened to restore some confidence in it again.

the compressor on the tohy sounds a bit radical too :o and starts to confirm it to myself that these di 2s engines are not simpler than 4s engines due to the complexity of the high pressure injection systems.

another question adam, how do di2s engines get lubrication to the crank and bearings? given that the fuel/oil goes straight into the combustion chamber. do they have a sump and seperate oil like a 4s?

[Spaniard_King]

DI 2 Strokes have a seperate oil injection system which directly feeds the bearings/crank/cyl walls with only oil.... "no fuel". This oil is then sucked into the combustion chaimber with the normal induction of the engine. A small amopunt of oil is also mixed in with the fuel.

Garry

[Kopey]

On the subject of lubrication, is it true 200 Etecs only use 7.2 litres of XDS100 oil per 100 hours?? :-? #If my 3.3 litre V6 2 stroke was only putting through 7.2 litres of oil I'd be wondering how the hell could that be enough! :o #Spose that XDS100 must be some pretty super dooper sh#t! One dip and you'll be almost slippery forever! Sounds like some salesman I know. #;D ;D ;D

[Kiktz]

Kopey,

Knowing nothing about mechanics, but they are saying that the e-tec
are alot lesssmokey than normal 2's. I would suggest that the oil isn't being wasted/ being burnt up for no reason.

Aj

[PADDLES]

thanks garry, i've always wondered how that happened :)

call me silly, but why did the manufactureers of di2s engines not just use a wet sump with a mechanical pump like a 4s? surely this would be a way more reliable source of lubricating oil for the bottom end and keep it seperate from the top end lubrication.

[Spaniard_King]

thanks garry, i've always wondered how that happened :)

call me silly, but why did the manufactureers of di2s engines not just use a wet sump with a mechanical pump like a 4s? surely this would be a way more reliable source of lubricating oil for the bottom end and keep it seperate from the top end lubrication.

Paddles,
I think the wet sump would be the best as well but how do you think they could stop the oil being sucked through into the combustion chaimber. you see 4 strokes use a seperate manifold and they have valves to let the air into the combustion chaimber but the old 2 stroke had to use inlet and exhaust ports which is fed through the crank case ;).

Kopey, I thouught you would have realised how the Etec can use so little oil. if the oil is mixed with the fuel they need 50:1 to get reasonable lubrication so with direct oil injecti9on and no fuel they need less oil as the oil is doing a better job being non diluted with the fuel. I think this has also increased there longevity.

Garry

[manchild]

Some people push the Dealership/sales bus a bit hard on here at times ,

I wonder if they are on a sales commission from Suzuki #;D ;D ;D ;D

I think you hit that on the head mate. I also like to add that talking down other brands doesnt work for me.Having said that i got a contract with dulux to use their product exlusively ,i got it cheaper and also get a hamper basket at xmas time.Not to mention numerous little gifts and a yearly membership to some exlusive golfclub .So i promote them everywhere i go.So everyone does it just not this shamelessly.
cheers
George

[Kopey]

Kopey, I thouught you would have realised how the Etec can use so little oil. if the oil is mixed with the fuel they need 50:1 to get reasonable lubrication so with direct oil injecti9on and no fuel they need less oil as the oil is doing a better job being non diluted with the fuel. I think this has also increased there longevity.

The Optimaxes use the same system and also use a higher grade of oil and uses alot more than this (know as I worked with them). Probably see alot more Opti's in years to come still running around, at least they let the engine have a bit more oil.

A fourstroke in comparison would keep circulating litres of oil per hour, the simple fact is apart from the extra moving parts in the head, there'd have to be around the same amount of friction between the piston rings, pistons and cylinder walls, the crank in the two stroke would have less friction as it has needle roller bearings which is mandatory givin the amount of lubrication it recieves in comparison.

To me 100 hours is a decent amount of running, considering a 2 stroke doesn't really hold oil, 7.2 ltres just doesn't seem like much oil to be lubricating a 3.3 litre V6, if you break that down mathematically that equates to only 72mls of oil lubricating an entire 3.3 litre engine per 60 minutes of running!!! # :o

Maybe it's just me, I'd rather be seeing more oil lubricating my engine. #:-?

Perhaps Spainiard King can further explain and back up Waykels statement and tell me how they achieve such incredible fetes? :-?

[brettski3]

that etec dvd is the biggest load of bollocks ive seen, time will tell with these engines, one problem i can see is they are made by evinrude.

[Kopey]

manchild, hit the nail on the head hey? #:-?

I work as a marine technician you work as a painter. You make a living painting and get some bonuses using only one brand of paint, I make my living by my knowledge and expertise of fixing, servicing, repairing etc of various outboards as well as Suzukis. I don't get any bonuses by promoting Suzuki, I just service, fit and fix them and reckon they're a great engine.

Apart from loving Suzis I also reckon the 60 Yamaha EFI is a brilliant engine, the new Tohie 9.8 4 stroke is a nice little engine, the new 90 EFI Honda engines to be soon released sounds interesting and still love the performance and crackle of my mate's V8 Mercruiser. I recently fitted a pair of 200 Ficht Ram Injection motors to a 25ft Bertram (owned by Greg Bryant phone no and pics if you like) which come off a 28ft Powercat I repowered with twin DF225's (owner Adam Vieglas, runs Do Lots Hardware H,Bay).

So you tell me what I'm missing??? #:-?

Maybe that Johno guy's right. Suzuki green copies, hmmm ;D ;D

[Kopey]

Is there anyone else out there that reckons 72mls of oil to lubricate an entire V6 3.3 litre 2 stroke engine putting out 200 horse power for a full hour straight is a bit unbelievable? #:-?

Is there anyone out there that could clarify these figures?


Kopey, I thouught you would have realised how the Etec can use so little oil.

After working on and being trained on Mercury Optimaxes that use more oil than this despite using the same kind of lubrication system as an Etec and also using a high grade synthetic oil, so no I didn't realise this Garry.

[manchild]

Okay ,thanks for the lesson mate .I just made an observation thats all.Now just for the record ,im a builder not a painter,not that its matters.About that greg bryant guy ,why would i wanna know who he is? that puzzled me a little bit.I can assure you that i couldnt care less,if you know what i mean.Dont get so jumpy mate ,If you feel like to prove yourself im not your man as like i said i dont care.You ll learn that in time mate.
What you missing is some manners and sometimes sensetivity in yor comments and i saying that sincereley .What if just what if if people out there who ownes and loves they e-tec .You hear the stories all the time that somebodys uncles heard from the bloke in the pub who been told by his mothers dentist ....so on and so forth.
relax mate
cheers
George

[Alex9797]

good onya manchild'

if I hear one more name dropped AAHH AHHH. By the way played golf with George Gregan last Friday (phone number and pics can be supplied) ;D ;D ;D

btw kopey if I had the $ I would be looking at a Suzi 140 to replace my 150 merc ;)

Alex

[Kopey]

Okay manchild, glad to see you don't mind a difference of opinion, I'll take some of your words of advice on board, cheers. #;)

I genuinely have nothing against 99.9% of Etec owners, I'm sure they're just normal blokes like you and me, what I do find obsurd is alot of the sales BS that has flooded the market lately. #

With that is there anyone that could clarify these 200 Etec oil consumption figures? #:-/

Waykel: 7.2 litres XDS100 oil per 100 hours which equates to:

72mls of oil to lubricate a V6 3.3 litre 2 stroke engine for a full hour straight of normal running.

Spaniard King seems to think this is normal, maybe it's just me. #:-/

PS: Too much work and not enough fishing can make a man grumpy!

[Ron173]

Kopey,

On the subject of ETEC lubrication, I dont have a 200HP, but as you know have a 90HP.

So since you ask I will try to explain a little on this subject.

First of all the oils used:-

XD50 which is a semi synthetic oil, and XD100 which is a fully synthetic oil.

The lube system, injects directly into the crankcase, and as such is not directly part of the combustion process. Because its not being burnt it can remain in there for a much longer period, hence using less oil. It will of course be 'used' by heat and friction etc.

As for the friction in the bores and moving rings etc, the cylinder bores are boron nitride-honed which exposes porosity in the cylinder alloy which actually retains a microscopic layer of oil, which is capturing the small amount of oil that is actually used in the fuel, and retaining it there aiding lubrication.

The control of all this is done by the Engine Management Module which is constantly monitoring ambient air temp and barometric pressure, and adjusting timing to suit running conditions.

As its been said before the ETEC is a fairly simple engine, controlled by a complex computer system.

Some would say this is a downfall, personally I like it, but agree if it was to go down then I'm in trouble, but its solid state electronics and seems to be fairly reliable.

Also you being a mechanic will know that almost all engines have EMM's now, perhaps just not so complex as the ETEC.

Engines programmed to run on the XD100 use 50% less oil than when running on XD50, being a fully synthetic oil it uses less of it.

My personal use I find that it uses very little oil, the tank is very small (wont even take the standard bottle which is an American gal, bout 3ltr point something) but if I'm running WOT for a day it can go down about an inch from the top.

So IMO Waykels oil consumption figures would be quite feasable if he wasnt running flat chat.

The 2 stroke oily smoke smell which standard 2 strokes have isnt there, when I got mine it was on XD50 and was evident slightly but much less than a standard 2 stroke.
I now run it on XD100, and can hardly detect any smell, XD100 is actually a smokeless oil.

Maybe this might explain things a bit, without being argumentative with each other.

Regards

Ron

[PADDLES]

thanks again garry, that would hold for a conventional crankcase induction 2s. but if the engine is direct injection and the fuel/oil mix goes directly into the combustion chamber (that's why they have to use such high pressures in the injection pumps) then why even have transfer ports? why not have the bottom end lubrication taken care of by a recirculating wet sump? obviously much smarter minds than mine have figured this technology out but i just can't understand why they didn't simply make a 4s motor into a 2s (for the obvious power to weight benefits) with some electrical trickery and the removal of the valves and top end equipment. what am i missing here? :-?

[Spaniard_King]

Paddles,

they onlymix about 1% oil in with the fuel to go to the injectors, the rest of the oil is fed directly to the lubrication points ie crank, bearings, piston skirts etc it is this oil (no fiuel in this oil) which gets sucked in with the air induction of a 2 stroke hence transfer ports. I think its the inefficiency of the 2 stroke ( exhaust stroke overlapping with the induction stroke) that will keep the 2 appart

cheers

Garry

[Kopey]

Great to see some more constructive posts Ron. ;)

[KGW2]

I think Jonnyrude has been around and making OB's for long enough to get it right with the E-Tecs. I know what I would buy.

[Kerry]

I think Jonnyrude has been around and making OB's for long enough to get it right with the E-Tecs. I know what I would buy.

[smiley=huh.gif] Does that mean they had not ben around long enough then with their Ficht fiasco?

[Kopey]

7.2mL of oil to lubricate a 3.3Litre 200 Etec per minute in best case scenario doing 1000rpm. :-?

You wouldn't want this engine to sit for too long without being fogged, if the bores went dry, with this tiny amount of oil going in. I spose the fully synthetic oil would have to compensate for that, shouldn't dry out like the old TCW3.

Still thinkin about these figures, intriuging.

[Kerry]

This is what they call "new technology" ;D

[Johnson_Jack]

Admittedly this is America, but Evinrude are offering specials with 7 year warranty.

Has to say something about their belief in the product.

Heres a link I found


http://www.nestorfallsmarine.com/etec.php

[PADDLES]

that's pretty impressive, 7 years. they've pretty much got all their eggs in the one basket now don't they? etec is their only "latest technology" engine now that the suzuki 4s deal has fallen through with them. it's awesome to see they are standing behind their product.

thanks for your reply too garry, i'm now getting an understanding of roughly how the di2s works :)

[Kerry]

Have outboard manufacturers lost the plot or making bitsa's these days to fill the gaps.

Since the Suzzie 140 appears to be the flavour of the month (next month who knows ::)) there is really no comparison with the DF90/115. Not really a great difference between capacity 2044 cc v 1950cc for an extra 25/50 HP and slightly different bore/stroke but the 140 gets stressed to 6200rpm and is a lighter engine ???????????.

So at what rpm does the 140 develop maximum HP? compared to the 90/115.

The smart manufacturers one would think would be in the market to keep costs down? But apart from some manufacturers there is just about no 3 engines these days that use the same major components pistons/rings/rods etc etc. Is all this just a knee jerk reaction?

Between the DF90/115 and DF150/175 the 140 is an odd ball!

It's really a no brainer to make a 115/130/140/150/175/200 with common parts (pistons/rods etc) same bore/stroke etc as it has to keep manufacturing and repair costs down.

Regards, Kerry.

[KGW2]

All I'm saying is that Johnson, Evinrude, Merc and Mariner have been around long enough to make mistakes and get things right..
All I know about the nips.. is they make a reasonably good motorcycle... short lifespan overpriced cars and as for outboards.. we'll see in 20 years.

[Kerry]

Don't forget Johnson and Evinrude live in name only, after OMC went down the tube because of their mistakes. OMC simply failed to exist. The Ficht fiasco (and other issues) basically destroyed OMC and that is not something that many want to see on their resume!

Regards, Kerry.

[Rod_Bender]

Well another great experience i had with an E-tec. this time a 200Hp model. Will admit drove really well out to the Bomber wreck off Townsville. Used minimum fuel and noise level average. We starting trolling around the bomber and after 10 minutes the engine started running very rough and at times conking out. Back on the plane things were back to normal but trolling was made difficult. Trip to his local dealer said a new program was placed inside the motor's computer and should fix the problem. Spark plugs were fouling up... Otherwise i good days fishing was had when bottom fishing. Please can someone give me a ride in a model that works properly. Thats four from four now with problems and that includes a barra charter from Townsville.

[sempre]

Hey if you dont like em , dont buy em . I have 2 a 40 hp 2006 model , and a 200hp 2005 model , both run great , never had any probs , so make your own mind up .

So there you go , there's 2 that work .

Sam...

[Kopey]

This is what they call "new technology" #;D

Sorry bud, the piston engine has been around since the turn of the century. They either come in 2 stroke or 4 stroke. All we've been doing all this time is refining it and in the case of the 2 stroke, throwing more crap on it to try make it do what a 4 stroke does best. #;)


An what does a 4S do best?

What has changed with 4S's since the horse was pensioned off?


Well apart from being naturally more efficient, quieter, less smokier, smoother running, more durable longer lasting engine and apart from what they do best in the F1 cars and GP bikes and I spose Bombardier's flagship jetskis! ;D ;D ;D



The Suzi being almost 2 litres is the most understressed engine in it's class so there's no reason why you can't get 140 horses out of the same powerhead.

So you take a 90HP 1950cc engine out to a 140 HP 2044cc engine, an extra 94cc and pick up 50HP? over half the base HP and it's not stressed!

Not talking about the stress of the 90 Kopey, it's lazy, the stress of the 140 is the subject.


How many 140's have come home with blown powerheads from being over stressed, kerry?

There's your answer mate.

So Kerry what about the stress of the Tohatusu TLDI 90 then: 1267cc or maybe the Etec 90: 1295cc, tell us with your expert knowledge from doing what was it again for a living??? :-?

[Kerry]

An what does a 4S do best?

What has changed with 4S's since the horse was pensioned off?

[sempre]

Some of you blokes need to get a life .

[leezor]

Rod_bender, glad you made it home without needing a tow mate. I hate that feeling in your gut when something goes wrong that far out to sea. The thought of asking for help is so embarrasing, certainly spoils a days fishing!

[Kopey]

Especially embarassing when you've just spent 20+K on an engine and it's as lerry as all bug@ry with those big p@@fy foreigner flags painted all over them! ;D ;D ;D

[Kopey]

Some people do it shamelessly though: Waykel owner 200 Etec "Had one blow up on me, but wouldn't have anything else on." #;D ;D ;D

[Kopey]

An what does a 4S do best?

What has changed with 4S's since the horse was pensioned off?


Well apart from being naturally more efficient, quieter, less smokier, smoother running, more durable longer lasting engine and apart from what they do best in the F1 cars and GP bikes and I spose Bombardier's flagship jetskis! ;D ;D ;D

[Kerry]

:D Lets try seconds ;D

Have outboard manufacturers lost the plot or making bitsa's these days to fill the gaps.

Since the Suzzie 140 appears to be the flavour of the month (next month who knows ) there is really no comparison with the DF90/115. Not really a great difference between capacity 2044 cc v 1950cc for an extra 25/50 HP and slightly different bore/stroke but the 140 gets stressed to 6200rpm and is a lighter engine ???????????.

So at what rpm does the 140 develop maximum HP? compared to the 90/115.

The smart manufacturers one would think would be in the market to keep costs down? But apart from some manufacturers there is just about no 3 engines these days that use the same major components pistons/rings/rods etc etc. Is all this just a knee jerk reaction?

Between the DF90/115 and DF150/175 the 140 is an odd ball!

It's really a no brainer to make a 115/130/140/150/175/200 with common parts (pistons/rods etc) same bore/stroke etc as it has to keep manufacturing and repair costs down.

Regards, Kerry.

[saurian]

Kopey , say it as it is .
Well done....

[Kopey]

It's really a no brainer to make a 115/130/140/150/175/200 with common parts (pistons/rods etc) same bore/stroke etc as it has to keep manufacturing and repair costs down.


BMW seem to do it and with great success! #;D ;)

[Kopey]

It is commonly known (in the 4 stroke world anyway) a piston engine is really just a big air pump. As long as it holds together for the load that is given, you're laughing. The cylinder heads are where the horsepower's made. #;)

[Kerry]

It's really a no brainer to make a 115/130/140/150/175/200 with common parts (pistons/rods etc) same bore/stroke etc as it has to keep manufacturing and repair costs down. #


BMW seem to do it and with great success! #;D ;)

So why do you think some outboard manufacturers can't or don't :D

[Kopey]

Don't know mate your the one telling the story. ;)

I'm not the one with the big manufacturing dollars and brains.

[Kerry]

NO just asking the question, I thought you might have known why suzzie don't do this to keep costs down, makes a lot of sense the way 4S repair costs are going.

So how about the other quesions, you avoiding them or don't know? If you don't know then that's fine.

Where do you get an extra 50hp between a 1950cc engine and a "lighter" 2044cc engine and at what RPM does the DF140 produce maximum HP?

So at what rpm does the 140 develop maximum HP? compared to the 90/115.

Between the DF90/115 and DF150/175 is the 140 an odd ball knee jerk reaction fill in?

Regards, Kerry.

[Kopey]

As I tried to tell you earlier, the cylinderheads are where the power is made. The heads on the DF140's would have greater flow to gain the extra horses.

The DF140 produces it's horsepower between 5600-6200rpm's, the DF115 at 5000-6000 and the DF90 between 4500-5500.

The 140 just happens to be one of the most popular midrange 4 stroke engines around and at 186kgs for the given hp output it's no wonder why.

Never had any bad complaints from any customer's, if 2 x DF115's can push a pro crabber's 28ft 3.5 ton Cougarcat here day in day out for over 4000 hours without all the maintenance your typical engine should get that's good enough for me.

Odd ball knee jerk reaction just happened to fill the hole in quite nicely as would so many customer's I would say. #;)

[Kopey]

90 Evinrude Etec: Inline 3, 1295cc, 145kgs, DI
90 Tohatsu TLDI: Inline 3, 1267cc, 143kgs, DI
90 Merc Optimax: Inline 3, 1526cc, 163kgs, DI
90 Suzuki 4 strk: Inline 4, 1950cc, 189kgs, EFI
90 Honda 4 strk: Inline 4, 1590cc, 169kgs, carbed
90 Merc 4 stroke: Inline 4, 1732cc, 181kgs, EFI
90 Yamaha 4 strk: Inline 4, 1596cc, 168kgs, EFI

The Suzi being almost 2 litres is the most understressed engine in it's class so there's no reason why you can't get 140 horses out of the same powerhead.

[Kerry]

The DF140 produces it's horsepower between 5600-6200rpm's, the DF115 at 5000-6000 and the DF90 between 4500-5500.

Specs I can read for myself! It is 140HP at 5600 or 6200 or what?


if 2 x DF115's can push a pro crabber's 28ft 3.5 ton Cougarcat

Which is why anybody in their right mind would want to fit 140's to a KC2400? What for the "holeshot" wank?

[Kopey]

May be you should ask the owner's after all it wasn't my decision. ;)

Better still ask Kevlacat, you seem to know more about their cats than they do. ;D ;D ;D

[Kerry]

The Suzi being almost 2 litres is the most understressed engine in it's class so there's no reason why you can't get 140 horses out of the same powerhead.

So you take a 90HP 1950cc engine out to a 140 HP 2044cc engine, an extra 94cc and pick up 50HP? over half the base HP and it's not stressed!

Not talking about the stress of the 90 Kopey, it's lazy, the stress of the 140 is the subject.

[Luke_Groen]

How many 140's have come home with blown powerheads from being over stressed, kerry?

There's your answer mate.

[Kerry]

May be you should ask the owner's after all it wasn't my decision. #;)

Better still ask Kevlacat, you seem to know more about their cats than they do. #;D ;D ;D

Owners, designers, original spec? No I suppose the owners could plate things anyway they like (within reason) but the original spec? Well you would have to ask the person who designed and first built the 2400, wouldn't you Kopey # ;D #

[Kopey]

Spot on Luke! ;)

[Kerry]

How many 140's have come home with blown powerheads from being over stressed, kerry?

There's your answer mate.

And would YOU really KNOW one way or the other?

[Kopey]

The KC2400's just happened to be plated to 2 x 140hp. Take it up with the boatbuilder not me I didn't make the boat.

The way you carry on it's as if you did.

[Kopey]

How many 140's have come home with blown powerheads from being over stressed, kerry?

There's your answer mate.

And would YOU really KNOW one way or the other?


Being in my position and knowing who I know yes. So what do you do for a crust that makes you such an expert??? :-?

[Kerry]

The KC2400's just happened to be plated to 2 x 140hp. Take it up with the boatbuilder not me I didn't make the boat.

The way you carry on it's as if you did. #

Oh I know you didn't make the boat! As mentioned the owners could plate it as they wish but then they didn't design it either!

[Luke_Groen]

Kerry,

I spose you would hey mate?

How many threads do you see about DF140 problems? They've been on the market for how many years now? I've got a few mates with them and they've never had any issues, ever.

[Kerry]

How many 140's have come home with blown powerheads from being over stressed, kerry?

There's your answer mate.

And would YOU really KNOW one way or the other?


Being in my position and knowing who I know yes. So what do you do for a crust that makes you such an expert??? #:-?

As if a person in YOUR POSITION would let on regardless of who you know. Oh Kopey it's called PR nothing new!

[Kopey]

Kerry your knowledge simply astonishes me! ;D ;D ;D

Not only do you know more about the KC2400's then Kevlacat themselves but you also know more about Suzis too. You win, Bravo!! ;D ;D ;D

Post us what you do for a living on this thread, I'm intriguied. ;D

[Kerry]

Kerry,

I spose you would hey mate?

How many threads do you see about DF140 problems? They've been on the market for how many years now? I've got a few mates with them and they've never had any issues, ever.


I spose you would hey mate? yeah mate I spose I do ;) even before the deck mould was finished.

So yes Luke do tell how long have the DF140's been on the market and when were they first released in oz. You got sales numbers of DF140's too, they would be interesting. Obviously the release would have been after Suzuki unceremoniously took their bat and ball and left the country ;)

[Kopey]

So what do you do for a living Kerry??? (Outboard engineer, shipwright, marine engines technician?)

[Kerry]

Kerry your knowledge simply astonishes me! #;D ;D ;D

Not only do you know more about the KC2400's then Kevlacat themselves but you also know more about Suzis too. You win, Bravo!! #;D ;D ;D

Post us what you do for a living on this thread, I'm intriguied. #;D

And all the time I thought you knew something about KC's, all those fit-outs and all! That can be forgiven but not handling direct suzzie questions that is unforgivable ;D Might be an opening in PR if all else fails :'(

[Kerry]

So what do you do for a living Kerry??? (Outboard engineer, shipwright, marine engines technician?)

Nothing to do with the subject and totally irrelevent :P

[Kerry]

http://www.cqnet.com.au/~user\aitken\gen\bitter_end.jpg

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

When your suzzies have done 16 years come on back and we'll compare apples to apples.

In the meantime don't continue bleating about KC's you've shown you know jack schitt about 'em, fitted a few so what! no big deal and 140 anything's on a 2400 is nothing more than a "holeshot" wank!

[Kopey]

Okay coward I'll put it to you plain and simple, What do you do for a job?

I believe it directly relates to all the posts in your thread so why not be a man and answer the question? ;D Or are you too ashamed and cowardly to answer such a simple question? ;D

[Kerry]

AND bring your detailed service records and detailed costing for the 16 years!

[lippa]

Okay coward I'll put it to you plain and simple, What do you do for a job?

I believe it directly relates to all the posts in your thread so why not be a man and answer the question? #;D #Or are you too ashamed and cowardly to answer such a simple question? #;D


my dads a truck driver, and knows loves afl footy, can tell you every stat from every gf in the last 30 years. do you have to be in the marine trade to know and understand boats and motors??????? did dad have to play in the big leauge to know what he does about footy?????????????

[Kopey]

So you listen to this expert instead of the technician next time you go buy an outboard.

I see he's still too gutless to even answer a simple question.

[Luke_Groen]

Kerry,

I spose you would hey mate?

How many threads do you see about DF140 problems? They've been on the market for how many years now? I've got a few mates with them and they've never had any issues, ever.


I spose you would hey mate? yeah mate I spose I do #;) even before the deck mould was finished.

So yes Luke do tell how long have the DF140's been on the market and when were they first released in oz. You got sales numbers of DF140's too, they would be interesting. Obviously the release would have been after Suzuki unceremoniously took their bat and ball and left the country #;) # #

Wouldn't have a clue mate do you?

[PADDLES]

woweeeee! this has turned from a technical discussion into a slanging match ................. what the!

hey adam, in regards to your question about 2 pages of slanging ago. i think it was along the lines of "what is the 4s trying to do to keep up with a 2s?"

the answer is simple, the 4s is trying so hard to get outright 'balls and all' performance from the same capacity/physical size motor and it will happen at the expense of reliability.

remember back when a dirty old xr250 honda 4s dirtbike would get blown into the weeds by say a 2s cr250? i'd guarantee you though, that the xr would still be running on the same piston in 10years time but the cr would be munching a piston or 2 a year.

now in the intersts of current 4s technology/sales (and the environment) they get a very similar output out of a highly tuned slightly larger capacity 4s motor and this is the replacement for the 2s model. but the maintenance goes through the roof, almost back to the same level of maintenance that the 2s required in the first place.

now i know this isn't boats, it's bikes. but i reckon that the same basic engine theory holds. boats are going through a revolution in 2s technology now that hasn't reached the bike world yet.

my comment still holds in that i'd still buy a 4s at the moment but the di2s are starting to look good :)

[Kerry]

Would even have to agree with paddles :D As it is about this time in the 4S outboard revolution that 4S repair costs are starting to bite and quite frankly bite hard with regards parts and even labour.

The simpliest engine, fewer parts with good fuel economy and environmental commitments will win the day along with purchase costs and the lowest cost engine will be due to simplicity.

Take Yamaha the same piston fitted the entire HP range from 115 to 200's, that's smart management. That BRP the E-tec might be a technology but the hardware used in the V4's V6's is the same that has been used in OMC's for the past 20 years, the is also smart management, keeps costs down and maintains better part supply.

Australia is not a big outboard market, hence along with other reasons why some outboard manufacturers took their business out of the country.

Many people don't look to far down the track and in any case a lot of outboards sold in this country are too recretaional people who will loose interest way before there are any major problems anyway. For operators they will replace on a regular basis and pass on the probelms to someone else.

Regards, Kerry.

[Kopey]

This is what they call "new technology" ;D

Sorry bud, the piston engine has been around since the turn of the century. They either come in 2 stroke or 4 stroke. All we've been doing all this time is refining it and in the case of the 2 stroke, throwing more crap on it to try make it do what a 4 stroke does best. ;)


An what does a 4S do best?

What has changed with 4S's since the horse was pensioned off?


Well apart from being naturally more efficient, quieter, less smokier, smoother running, more durable longer lasting engine and apart from what they do best in the F1 cars and GP bikes and I spose Bombardier's flagship jetskis! ;D ;D ;D



The Suzi being almost 2 litres is the most understressed engine in it's class so there's no reason why you can't get 140 horses out of the same powerhead.

So you take a 90HP 1950cc engine out to a 140 HP 2044cc engine, an extra 94cc and pick up 50HP? over half the base HP and it's not stressed!

Not talking about the stress of the 90 Kopey, it's lazy, the stress of the 140 is the subject.


How many 140's have come home with blown powerheads from being over stressed, kerry?

There's your answer mate.

So Kerry what about the stress of the Tohatusu TLDI 90 then: 1267cc or maybe the Etec 90: 1295cc, tell us with your expert knowledge from doing what was it again for a living??? :-?

[Kerry]

As someone has already pointed out to me since this Kopey appeared all it wants to do is argue about Suzi 4S's, nothing satisfies him and simply goes around in circles saying SSA.

Yes I'm cleverer than that :P will now ignore the dickheads so just reiterating what many have said and you enjoy rabbling on about what ever it is you want to rabble on about as you are obviously becoming and have become a coplete waste of my time and a few others as well.

[Kopey]

This is just one of the PM's I recieved today regarding Kerry. I think it pretty much sums him up:

Kopey,

In all the time i've been an ausfisher, kerry has been the most argumentative, critical, b@llsh*tter this site has ever been graced with. Every time someone went to ask what boat do you own or what do you do for a living, he just comes up with some bullshit smart @ssed remark. Doesn't support any of his arguements, and just makes broad sweeping comments and puts down just about everyone on this site. mate when he actually makes a positive comment about anything on this site, pm me because it will be a f**k**g miracle. Asking Kerry an opinion is like pulling teeth. And when he does make a comment its just cr@p. Total unsubstantiated cr@p. That is one of the reasons why the administrators blocked him from using this site. because there was an endless sea of cr@p coming from his keyboard. Sure he sounds like he knows stuff. But hes all smoke and mirros. All super secretive. Doesnt come out and just say what's what. but has this underhanded approach to everything he writes. Like the comment about holeshot. Thats classic kerry. Stating something is B@llsh*t without even backing his comments up. Anyway thats my two cents worth. Hope this enlightens you to the "man" that is kerry.

I'm not going to waste my time even botharing replying to any more of your posts mate so don't bothar getting all upset when I don't.

[Kopey]

Getting back to what this topic was all about:


Hi

I,m considering updating my current outboard to one of the following:

200 Hp Evinrude E-Tec, or

200 HP Honda.

Can anbody provide any information that might help me make up my mind

[Ron173]

[quote
or maybe the Etec 90:[/quote]

C'Mon Kopey, keep my 90 outta this :o ;)

This is a Suzuki argument page ;D

Ron

[KGW2]

All Japcrap to me anyway... ;D

[Ron173]

;D My rude says Made in America on her, so did my last Merc ;D

wether that goes for anything nowadays.........

All well so far, I'm a firm believer, but cant crow till the sands of time say so

Rgds

Ron

[Kopey]

All Japcrap to me anyway... ;D

Says the engine assemblers at the factories in Mexico. ;D ;D

[troy]

This is just one of the PM's I recieved today regarding Kerry. I think it pretty much sums him up:

Kopey,

In all the time i've been an ausfisher, kerry has been the most argumentative, critical, b@llsh*tter this site has ever been graced with. #Every time someone went to ask what boat do you own or what do you do for a living, he just comes up with some bullshit smart @ssed remark. #Doesn't support any of his arguements, and just makes broad sweeping comments and puts down just about everyone on this site. #mate when he actually makes a positive comment about anything on this site, pm me because it will be a f**k**g miracle. #Asking Kerry an opinion is like pulling teeth. #And when he does make a comment its just cr@p. #Total unsubstantiated cr@p. #That is one of the reasons why the administrators blocked him from using this site. #because there was an endless sea of cr@p coming from his keyboard. #Sure he sounds like he knows stuff. #But hes all smoke and mirros. #All super secretive. #Doesnt come out and just say what's what. #but has this underhanded approach to everything he writes. #Like the comment about holeshot. #Thats classic kerry. #Stating something is B@llsh*t without even backing his comments up. #Anyway thats my two cents worth. #Hope this enlightens you to the "man" that is kerry.

I'm not going to waste my time even botharing replying to any more of your posts mate so don't bothar getting all upset when I don't.
Kopey,
I am not getting involed in this dog fight and i am not taking sides but i feel pm,s should not be discloused to either win a argument or for any other reason.
It is only my opinion but if i send a member a pm then i consider it a private matter and should not be used for anything else.
Troy

[Kopey]

It hasn't been private the way Kerry thinks he can just get away with rubbishing someones livelyhood on here neither has it, that I find is an alot more serious matter.

The member (which I kept anonymous) that posted it to me has already posted me another PM today, and from what I hear he isn't that upset about it, if anything pleased. I'll keep that in mind for the next time, cheers for giving me the heads up.

Ta, Ads

[Grand_Marlin]

;D ;D ;D ICECREAMS, HOTDOGS, GRAND STAND TICKETS ... GET 'EM ALL HERE AND ENJOY THE SHOW [smiley=jester.gif]

[smiley=laola.gif] [smiley=laola.gif] [smiley=laola.gif] [smiley=laola.gif]

[saurian]

Think there are about 3 shows all playing at the same venue...lol

[Kerry]

Gutless anonymous PM's, don't ya just luv 'em #;D ;D

http://www.cqnet.com.au/~user\aitken\gen\fileit.gif

[Spaniard_King]

PML... good one GM

[Fishbait]

Hey thanks for reply "Noelm". Just new to AUSFISH so sorry about that folks.

It's been a good read though on the motors - improves one's decision making if and when purchasing a new motor in the future.

Cheers ;)

[Kopey]

Ahh well as long as everyone is enjoying the show. Good one GM ;) ;D ;D

[Kopey]

#

HA, "Kerry" thought u left mate, why dont u do everyone a favour and just piss off again.

Yeah JB,

Now that might not be a bad suggestion as not only are the same old same old dickheads still carrying on like dickheads but you've also acquired more dickheads into the fray. Dickheads are like ants they keep running around like a pack of scavengers trying to pick up the pieces.


Anyone that's got to post posts like this to our fellow Ausfisher's has gotta be down and out on their luck. Poor Bugga. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Kerry]

;)

[Kopey]

;D

[Spaniard_King]

As someone has already pointed out to me since this Kopey appeared all it wants to do is argue about Suzi 4S's, nothing satisfies him and simply goes around in circles saying SSA.

Yes I'm cleverer than that #:P will now ignore the dickheads so just reiterating what many have said and you enjoy rabbling on about what ever it is you want to rabble on about as you are obviously becoming and have become a coplete waste of my time and a few others as well.




Ah seems Kerry has hit the nail on the head so to speak. Still think we need another poll #;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Kerry]

And some of us here actually have the manners to post things up front for all to see. It is something called credibility unlike those that have none and post anon or make out things are anon #;)

[KGW2]

Used to have a 4st Suzuki... til some bugger knocked it off and used it as a letterbox.

[Kopey]

Anyone who makes claims without backing them up you can only take with a grain of salt. If your gonna state a fact, prove it.

For some reason kerry hasnt figured that out yet even with his 30 years experience at what???

No need to get all vindictive now Garry, ;D So I love Suzuki outboards, Get over it you pair!! ;D ;D ;D

P.S: So why don't you start up another poll Garry, you seem to be the one so interested in making another one, I'm not stopping you.

[Spaniard_King]

As someone has already pointed out to me since this Kopey appeared all it wants to do is argue about Suzi 4S's, nothing satisfies him and simply goes around in circles saying SSA.

Yes I'm cleverer than that #:P will now ignore the dickheads so just reiterating what many have said and you enjoy rabbling on about what ever it is you want to rabble on about as you are obviously becoming and have become a coplete waste of my time and a few others as well.




Ah seems Kerry has hit the nail on the head so to speak. Still think we need another poll #;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


I dunno Kopey, I recon polls are overated :o Still waiting for your first post that has some substance ::) ::)

Garry

[Spaniard_King]

Anyone who makes claims without backing them up you can only take with a grain of salt. #If your gonna state a fact, prove it.

For some reason kerry hasnt figured that out yet even with his 30 years experience at what???

No need to get all vindictive now Garry, #;D #So I love Suzuki outboards, Get over it you pair!! #;D ;D ;D

P.S: So why don't you start up another poll Garry, you seem to be the one so interested in making another one, I'm not stopping you.

Kopey, you seem to need a poll to keep you coming back! to keep you forcing suzi's down everyones throat. Find me a thread in the boating section where you havent been beating the suzi drums. or find me a thread that you have assisted a fellow Ausfisher without a mouth full of Suzuki ::) Go and read some of the other quality posts on this site.. you might learn something about yourself.

Garry

[Kopey]

I think everyone is entitled to talk about what they want here Garry! Where does it state you aren't, where's the substance in your mate Kerry's posts??? ;D ;D ;D

Who is it for someone to dictate what you can and can't talk about here?

[Spaniard_King]

Still waiting for your reply here Kopey

http://www.ausfish.com.au/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1159750366/120#120

[Spaniard_King]

I think everyone is entitled to talk about what they want here Garry! #Where does it state you aren't, where's the substance in your mate Kerry's posts??? #;D ;D ;D

Who is it for someone to dictate what you can and can't talk about here?


Where is it stated thet Kerry is my mate, I don't know the guy but I do respect his opinion because he has been on here for a long time unlike yourself who has done very little to back up his opinions. you don't get respect by carrying on like you do yes the suzi crowd will love you but they are a minority (count the votes) You could be an asset to the site but ATM you are coming accross as an A$$

Garry

[Deiter]

Maybe its only me, but i just thought Kopey was proud to work on Suzi's. I don't have one and never have, just for the record.

Yes, he does get a bit excited sometimes, but we were all young once :o :o

As long as i get honest opinions and not sales jargon or heresay, i am happy to listen.

Kopey, maybe an idea to just tone it down a tad. I can see how proud you are to work on your zukes, (and thats ok too) but its not to everyones taste we must understand. Besides, if they are that good, i would prefer to keep it quiet so they don't up the price ;)
Not trying to hold you back, just get you to think, thats all.

now everyone go and play nicely :D (tongue planted firmly in cheek)

Damo

[hussy]

shame kopey couldn,t offer any thing to fellow ausfishers on this site apart from his never ending dribble on suzuki,s, have a look at his last 25 posts.like a bloody broken record . trying to push his crap down our throats , i personally would not buy one ,just on principal, i,ll stick with my honda, it was sold to me not badgered to me.

[hussy]

jeez, go to the next post , what do i read , kopey pushin his bloody suzis again,when will it end?? hubby

[hussy]

go to next post , guess who?, you got it .kopey and his suzi show, getting to be a bit like the crisco lady. hubby

[Ron173]

Kopey,

I dont have a short memory.

The post which you quoted (incompletely, ie without my reply)

if you recall I actually said fair comment to you and said I would retract it.

Rgds

Ron

[Kopey]

Cheers for the tip Damo, glad to hear it mate. #

Hubby: Post titled "Engine Update," the cooking section isn't found here, sorry mate. #

Just think we can do without the big display next time Ron, thanks mate.

[Grand_Marlin]

Popcorn anyone ?? [smiley=laola.gif]

Vallium ?? [smiley=hammer.gif]

[troy]

I Will take the Vallium.
Troy ;)

[Ron173]

Kopey,

by 'big display' I guess your referring to adding smileys, take a look at your posts, youve gotta be "Mr add a smiley"

[PinHead]

Glad I am not looking for an outboard...20k plus all this entertainment...on second thoughts..it might be worth it..can hardly wait for the movie to be released...starring:
Mel Brooks as Kerry and Joe Pesci as Kopey

[Kopey]

Yes Ron take a look at your posts, you've gotta be "add mr nothing"


Hi

I,m considering updating my current outboard to one of the following:

200 Hp Evinrude E-Tec, or

200 HP Honda.

Can anbody provide any information that might help me make up my mind

[Ron173]

Yes Ron take a look at your posts, you've gotta be "add mr nothing"


Hi

I,m considering updating my current outboard to one of the following:

200 Hp Evinrude E-Tec, or

200 HP Honda.

Can anbody provide any information that might help me make up my mind


And of course youve added lots of constructive points associated with the original post which actually doesnt ask for any advice or opinions on Suzuki's........NOT

[Ron173]

Kopey,

serious question, slanging aside, what type of boat and engine setup do you run?

I'm sure everyone would be interested to hear,

Rgds

Ron

[hussy]

,

serious question, slanging aside, what type of boat and engine setup do you run?

I'm sure everyone would be interested to hear,

Rgds

Ron[/quote] i reckon it would be a 3m dehaveland with a 6hp seagull. hubby

[Deiter]

,

serious question, slanging aside, what type of boat and engine setup do you run?

I'm sure everyone would be interested to hear,


Rgds

Ron i reckon it would be a 3m dehaveland with a 6hp seagull. hubby
[/quote]

Hubby, why do you seem to have a problem here?? :-[

Has Kopey insulted you or, for that matter, ever replied to one of your posts with a negative response? or has anyone else here forced you to read this post?

Thought so.

So leave it to the guys in the ring. sounds like you have nothing positive to add in this situation.

with all due respect, :-/
Damo


p.s. lets all have another rum... ;)

[Black_Rat]

;D ;D ;D what a laugh ! I 'll crack another rum and start up the 2 stroke Mercury in the back yard !

Grab your egos and go fishing #;) :P

Damo.

[walruss]

Haven't entered all this because frankly I think all the argument is a total load of s#@t.

One question I have found interesting though is that Kopey has mouthed off about Kerry not stating his occupation.

Why is not then when he is asked what type of boat he runs with what equipment he uses, he will not answer the question?

Just wondering?

Russ

[leezor]

Maybe because he hasn't been on-line since 10.30 this morning.... ::)

[Kopey]

;D ;D ;D what a laugh ! I 'll crack another rum and start up the 2 stroke Mercury in the back yard !

Grab your egos and go fishing #;) :P

Damo.

I think I'll join ya mate. I aint got 20K plus to spend on a rig at the moment (buying a house, sold my big boat). I'm going to go out soon in my piece of crap tupperware 4.5m Polycraft knock around boat and catch some fish while you can sit here and gloat on how much better your boats are. ;D ;D

P.S: Aint it good enough you've already had a go at what I do for a living? Gotta rubbish what I own too?

[onlyme]

all engines these days are good, you just need to pick one witha good warrenty and a manufacturer that is putting effort into reserch in the future, i have a honda and i got a 5 year warrenty and know of a pro crab worker up north queensland that got over 5000 hours out of one of these so i took a punt and brought a honda and up to this date i am super happy.The only thing i can suggest to you is all dealership yards have open days to test drive boats just pick a yard that has the motors that you want i ride with and go from there,thanks heaps regards onlyme

[Kopey]

Going to go fishing down the Burrum river now with Big Unit and use that chrisco Lure hamper kit hubby supplied us with. Enjoy. ;) :P

[finga64]

Hey Pete,
Chuck us a hotdog with onions and tomatoe sauce please....make that two....and a can of Sars!!!!

Ta mate :)

[manchild]

Going to go fishing down the Burrum river now with Big Unit and use that chrisco Lure hamper kit hubby supplied us with. Enjoy. #;) :P
GOD KNOWS IM NOT ALWAYS AGree WITH YOU MATE ,BUT I GIVE IT TO YOU THATS A PEARLER.
CHEERS
GEORGE

[Blackened]

G'day Pete

Make that 3 with a rum and coke ;)

Dave

[KGW2]

Slanging aside... :D I think "Onlyme" is on the money.. You can't really buy an old blackanchor or a fridge anymore, and with the competition and technology today, the overall standard is high an the warranties are reasonable or you go out of business.

[finga64]

all engines these days are good, you just need to pick one witha good warrenty and a manufacturer that is putting effort into reserch in the future, i have a honda and i got a 5 year warrenty and know of a pro crab worker up north queensland that got over 5000 hours out of one of these so i took a punt and brought a honda and up to this date i am super happy.The only thing i can suggest to you is all dealership yards have open days to test drive boats just pick a yard that has the motors that you want i ride with and go from there,thanks heaps regards onlyme


Slanging aside... :D I think "Onlyme" is on the money.. You can't really buy an old blackanchor or a fridge anymore, and with the competition and technology today, the overall standard is high an the warranties are reasonable or you go out of business.
Hear Hear fellas. Well said. :)
They're all good, they all break down so for my two bob's worth I'd be concentrating more on real 'if it goes bung we'll fix it no worries' type warantees, excellent aftersales service, repairs and availability of spares IF something goes wrong.

[Geoff_Atkinson]

Shit,

I go away for a fortnight's holidays and see what you lot get up to with out me. Seems Kopey doesnt need me around to start an argument. ;D ;D

Good to see you all didnt let the team down. [smiley=2thumbsup.gif] [smiley=2thumbsup.gif] [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

Cheers

Geoff

[KGW2]

Kopey knows exactly what he is doing.. He's an experienced SS and I think Kerry is quite qualifiied too.. There are just bringing a bit of free entertainment to the site. :-/