Water in fuel PROBLEM with Trailcraft Profish

[mjc85]

I have owned the Trailcraft Profish 4.85m for about 6 months now.

We recently had a problem where on our Mercury smartcraft gauges came up with a warning "Water in Fuel", I took it back to the dealer (Cunningham's Marine) and $600 later after they pulled up the carpet and panel in the sealed floor and removed the tank we are told that we either bought contaminated fuel or some jackass put water in our fuel tank while the boat was moored on our float dock at our jetty.

So we brought it home almost 3 weeks ago and today my brother (half owner of the boat) went to use it and got 10minutes from our jetty and the same warning comes up "Water in Fuel"

I am seriously about to have kittens as I don't believe it has happened again. After the last time the dealer gave us a funnel that separates water from fuel and I used this when i Filled the tank and no water was left over in the funnel.

I believe there is a fault somewhere or a leak allowing water to enter the tank as we had really heavy rain and hail here Wednesday and more rain Thursday and this is the first heavy rain we have had since we have had the boat back home.

What do you suggest i do ? What should i look at first to try and diagnose the problem, I am not prepared to pay another $600 when i believe it is a manufacturing fault or problem.

Here is a sample of what they removed from the fuel tank last time

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/9123/cimg1306mediumqy7.jpg

Mitch

[Poseidon]

I can remember a similar problem mentioned on here a while ago and after some back and forth the problem (if my memory is correct) was found to be that there was carpet cut flush around the fuel inlet which stopped the fuel cap from making a good seal against the inlet. Water found its way into the fuel via this gap.

They cut the carpet away from around the fuel inlet and all became well.

Not sure if this helps.

Regards Cameron.

[ribbit]

also see which way the fuel breathe ris facing incase picking up water whilst travelling. know off a couple motors rebulit and paid by boat companies when setup wrong

[Spaniard_King]

Looks to me like shit you get from a bad dose of fuel! #If it was rain water or sea water it would be clearer, that looks like shit out of the bottom of a very dirty fuel storage tank

Have you got a quality water seperating filter in line to your engine... not on the engine but on your boat, something like a racor???

One of these could be your savior, you can check it regularly for water (they have glass bowls to view the water). If water is present they have a drain bung to drain off the water. Having one of these will save you $$ . Mechanics love pulling fuel systems down to clean.. expensive and time consuming.

A Racor will set you back around $170 including fittings

Garry

[steveg1100]

Not familiar with this particular boat configuration in relation to fuel tank.

It would probably help us to diagnose if we had some picks of the tank and pickup points for your boat.

Thats a lot of water in the photo.

[Roughasguts]

The colour, of the water is one thing but the colour of the fuel worries me also, whats going on there.
But I think you got a does of the dirtiest fuel in Aus.

Anyway to see if your tank filler cap is leaking or any other part.
Un plug the fuel line from your motor, put a plug in your breather line.
And rock the boat around for a minute. The fuel will build up air pressure in the tank and try to escape out of any holes.

So get a spray bottle with some detergent in there and spray around filler cap hose conectors and such, and look for bubbles.

But think it's your fuel supply unless your premix, the fuel should be clearer than that water.

[mjc85]

No its an Optimax so no need for pre-mix, i don't believe it could be a bad batch of fuel because after the first time they gave us a Fuel/water separating funnel which i used to fill the boat back up and there was no sign of water left over and we now have the problem again.

Where would i find this fuel breather? There is two hoses connected to the fuel cap, one is a large black obviously for the fuel to go down and the other is smaller diameter clearish hose musr be to left air out as you put fuel in. There looks to be a small hairline crack around where the tank breather joins onto the floor.

[wayneoro]

bad fuel i had the same from a on the water fuel supply on the goldcoast or someone is tipping it into your tank

[Reef_fisher]

Apart from any cracks or defects in fuel system, clean out tank, yes costly and time consuming to do, but, it looks like it has already cost you for nil result. Did you buy the boat second hand? If so I would replace all fuel hoses as well. Racor water seperator/fuel filters are fantastic, I have one and although I haven't had any water come out I know that it will protect engine. 8-) 8-)
At the end of the day you need to be confident that your boat is reliable, I would hate to be on the Reef and have that problem occur. :-[ :-[

[Roughasguts]

Small crack is not good, like i said seal the clear hose off, that be the breather, and just disconect the fuel line from the motor, That should not leak.

Then shake the boat around on the trailer, and spray around that crack, see if air bubbles come out. If it is geez must be sucking a lot of water in.

Still don't like the colour of that fuel, the colour should be almost clearer than water, without the rust.

If that crack is only hair like, stag sealer would seal that.
Or permatex ??? this stuff stays soft and petrol won't disolve it.
Then again ethanol might, who knows what damage that stuff can do.

[Spaniard_King]

Minumise the damage.. get a Racor and be vigalent until you solve the problem

Garry

[Grand_Marlin]

Minumise the damage.. get a Racor and be vigalent until you solve the problem

Garry


This is the most sensible thing you can do, or it is going to end in tears :'(

There was a thread on here a while back which in a long winded way, ended up giving a great checklist of do's and dont's re: water, wher it can come from, and how to stop it.

http://www.ausfish.com.au/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1139021238/150

Cheers

Pete

[mjc85]

Well the boat is 6months old bought brand new, the water looks rusty and I would've thought it must've come from a steel container of some sort, apparently last time there was about 20 litres of water and 30 litres of fuel in the tank, so I don't imagine the fuel from a servo would be that bad. Someone could've tipped it in there, thats very possible but to happen again straight after heavy rain, also we know about 30 other people in the same estate with boats and never heard of them with problems of water in their fuel. So I am convinced its a crack somewhere, but that doesn't explain the rusty water and it can't be bad fuel again because I used the water/fuel separating funnel when i filled the boat after the first time it happened and there was no water left over in the funnel.

The Mercury Optimax has a water/fuel separating filter under the cowling, which has to be drained once it fills up. I'm not sure what happens once it fills up.

How do i know the dealer hasn't done a swifty on me and told me that we got bad fuel and just made up a fake sample? Do you think when i take the boat back next time i should hang around while they take the tank out etc and see for myself? Because i would love for it to be a fault so i can get my $600 back from last time.

[Spaniard_King]

Do you keep the tank full of fuel?? could be a good starting point. Hard to get too much water in it if it's full of fuel??

if you had a racor you could drain it yourself ;)

Oh and change your fuel supplier...cant be too carefull ;)

Garry

[wayne_cook]

The second time sounds sus.A few things don't add up.Rusty water??
???Why not drain the tank by manually pumping it out through ur fuel pump.Instead of paying $600
Has there been any fuel in the hull, suggesting a crack?? If not then the water is coming in from up high eg. breather,fuel filler cap hose connection. I tend to doubt a cracked tank the whole area would have to be full of water to get to the top of the tank,
basicly it's a process of ilimination work your way through the list.
One more possibility was all water removed the first time?
Has the sealed area smealt of fuel?
So many posabilities!!!

[Skipsta]

Sorry to hear about your problems mjc. #I've been fighting a battle with water in fuel for 12 months it drives you insane I can attest to.

My problem was the fuel filler with the carpet cut too closely around it as mentioned before. #After that was fixed I busted the cap on my fuel breather without realising it and water continued to come in even more.

I now personally don't like floor fillers and I won't get one again. #Unless you have 100% watertight seal with a good intact rubber o ring water will leach in here. #And there are so may ways for water to get in. #Rain... hosing your floor out.... if you have self draining decks like me, through the scuppers.

And watch your fuel filter like a hawk. #I'v watched mine go from empty to full of water in less than 10 seconds. #I was so worried I installed a second filter in series after the main one to check water wouldn't get through.

You didn't mention that the engine's carbies got cleaned out after the first incident. #You want them clean as a whistle. #Sea water especially will casue them to gel up very nasty and conk out.

Lastly, what is the go with your boat dealer charging you money to fix a problem whilst the boat is under warranty. #I would say the fact you have received a second dose of "bad fuel" after using a separator funnel, it is unlikely it was a bad dose of fuel. #A good excuse for a boat dealer to come up with to avoid fixing your boat under warranty.

Good luck with your probelm, keep us posted.

Skip

[Ron173]

Sound slike your getting the run around there mate.

Nobody could be that unlucky to have it happen twice.

At 6 months old, I'd be taking it back to dealer AND telling him to fix it and I wont be expecting a bill thank you.

I reckon hes ripping you off there for what should be learly warranty work.

Good luck, keep us posted on your results.

Rgds

Ron

[dave22]

Mate I reckon you coulld be on to something with the dealer putting it over you, now I'm no

mechanic/fuel expert but that container full of black shit looks suss to me, looks like bloody

molases, and i'd find it hard to believe you could get that black shit these days from a newish

servo, provided it was of course a new station.

I know you've been slugged for it, so i'd take back and make sure they do it again,

( probabbly never did it in first place ) , only this time call in and say you left something in boat

and go into the workshop and have a looksy to see if there doing anything.

[mjc85]

The second time sounds sus.A few things don't add up.Rusty water??
???Why not drain the tank by manually pumping it out through ur fuel pump.Instead of paying $600
Has there been any fuel in the hull, suggesting a crack?? If not then the water is coming in from up high eg. breather,fuel filler cap hose connection. I tend to doubt a cracked tank the whole area would have to be full of water to get to the top of the tank,
basicly it's a process of ilimination work your way through the list.
One more possibility was all water removed the first time?
Has the sealed area smealt of fuel?
So many posabilities!!!

Yeh, well speaking of that, there was actually fuel mixed with water in the hull before we took the boat in the first time, this is the reason they took the floor up and removed the tank. Then they told us there is no cracks in the tank, and apparently the water was entering via a small gap between welds inside the boat. So i don't understand how fuel can get in the hull if there was no cracks.

As for fixing the problem under warranty, the dealer claims it was bad fuel or someone spiked the tank with water but i reckon that is BS, the sample doesn't even look like fuel. As for it happening again, the only fuel i have put in was through the seperator funnel and no i don't keep the tank full. I currently have an Inline Quicksilver filter, will a Racor just screw into the same place? And is it clear so you can see when it has water in it ?

I am yet to go and remove the fuel line and shake it up to see if the small crack is actually right through. I will stick a marble pump down into the fuel tank tomorrow and remove some fuel and see whats in there. Oh and as for the dealer doing me over, I never signed for the credit card transaction =)

Will report back tomorrow with my findings.

Cheers
Mitch

[dave22]

Hope it works out for you, its to new to be having this sort of trouble.

This type of thing makes me cringe when dealing with dealers/manufacturers, each of them say

its the others fault and the customer is left with a foul taste in there mouth, worse than that

supposed shit they pulled from your tank. >:(

[StevenM]

Yes it is fuel

As far as 30 ltr 20 ltr mix...bullsh#t. Would never run.

You need to swap servos, fill from a plastic jerry, get a racor fuel / water seperator (that you can drain or with a glass bowl that you can see in) and probably start doseing your tank with fuel doctor.

See this site.. http://www.fueldoctors.com/faq.htm

The fuel doctor is worth abut 30 buck for a litre and you will dose around 2000 ltrs of fuel with it. Get it from any BP servo especially BP truckstops. If you have any trouble getting it drop me a PM and will source 4 you.

Also might be worth giving Steve Marriott a call from Fuel Doctor. Bit of a strange one but knows his shit.

Cheers

Steven

[BilgeBoy]

Here is one to chuck in the mix...

I am told from a reliable source...that they pump Salt water into the tankers when they are getting near empty...Because the fuel floats and they can get every last drop out. Sometimes they suck a fair amount of sea up as well. Mate...if you knew half of what was going on you would wanna smack someone real hard!!!

The filter sysem sure will be a good investment!! Whish you all the best with it

Megsy

[Reef_fisher]

Might also be wise to contact manufacturer and tell them what has happened, they may lean on the dealer to fix problem in a timely manner.

Had problem with a Nissan dealer some years back, when dealer wouldn't come to the party on warranty claim. Two days later problem fixed.

[mjc85]

You need to swap servos, fill from a plastic jerry, get a racor fuel / water seperator (that you can drain or with a glass bowl that you can see in)

After i got the boat back after the first time, i went to a different servo than i normally goto, as i filled it i used the water/fuel separating funnel and because i was using this i could see what was going into the tank as it swirled around in the funnel, the fuel was clear blue/grey, normal petrol colour so i'm 99% sure its not where i am buying the fuel from as thousands of boats buy their fuel from these servos as they are right near the boat ramp in Noosa and i am sure i would hear if anyone else had problems with fuel from there.

I spent some time fiddling with the boat this afternoon, i removed the external fuel filter and poured it into a half milk bottle and this is what was in it

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9155/cimg1311mediumet5.jpg

It does look like rust, just like last time but i never saw this colour as i was filling the tank. Where could i take this to be tested for contents to see if it is rust for sure?

The tank is alloy so it doesn't rust. So i'm stumped, the dealer is just going to jack me off again and charge me another $600, what else can i do?

I will contact Trailcraft direct and see what they say but i am sure they will just tell me to try this and that and not be of any help.

And the next problem is the boat is in the water tied up at my jetty has been for 5 days now, do you think its safe just to drive it up onto the floating dock? Otherwise its gonna get growth on it.

Cheers
Mitch

[Blackened]

G'day
That fuel situation isnt good, but whatever you do, get the hull out of the water, even if you have to somehow winch it up.

Dave

[StevenM]

Mitch

Get on to Steve marriott from fuel Doctor mate.

Looks like its getting in from your boat then. Deffinetly talk direct to Trailcraft

Cheers

Steven

[mjc85]

Good news, I spoke to the dealer again yesterday. Apprently he has had another boat with the same problem, the owner was taking that boat into their workshop yesterday. Apparently Trailcraft made some changes to the fuel system by adding an alloy tank and breather about the time i bought my boat, so maybe there is a problem, i hope :D Should hear tomorrow i think.

Mitch