Batteries and Concrete

[Geoff_Atkinson]

When completing the battery section of the MROCP course recently, our instructor told the class that he had just found out that it is not good for batteries to sit on a concrete floor for any amount of time. Apparently the concrete sucks the power out of the battery and can damage them.

Has anyone else heard of or had first hand experience of this???

Can anyone explain this phenomenon????

[Ron173]

G'Day Geoff,

Yes heard that too from several sources, cant give you a scientific explanation though, sorry.

You should always sit them on a mat or bit of old carpet or wood.

Rgds

Ron

[Big_unit]

Ive been told that for years by the old man and grandfather, always place a battery on a block of wood when out of the tractor, machine or whatever never sit them on the concrete. Apparently it earths out the battery they reckon. Pa reckons the old batteries years ago would always lose charge when sat on the concrete and he just keeps on doing it to this day. He isnt so sure if modern batteries are the same. Old habits die hard I guess.

Yet the guy at Positive Batteries tells me that he has heard it for years as well yet no one can give him a logical explaination for it. He doesnt see Grandpas explaination as being current ( excuse the pun ).

Ive seen solar powered homes and the battery banks are all sitting on the concrete.

So I think it may have applied years ago but the way modern batteries are constructed it may not apply.

[murf]

putting batteries on concrete will damage the concrete :(
any acid at all will mark the concrete
Murf

[Roughasguts]

I think this only applies in freezing conditions. Eg storing your battery on concrete over winter, when theres ice outside for 4 months of the year. This will help it freeze compared to placing it on a peice of wood to insulate.

In Aus don't think it will make a lot of differance.

[JasonT]

Considering that the casing is made of a non-conductive plastic and that often this same casing is placed onto a metal tray and secured with a metal battery clamp under the bonnet of a vehicle with no ill effects I would be highly dubious about concrete having any effect at all.
Especially when you consider the metal body of the car is way more conductive than even wet concrete let alone dry concrete. If the plastic casing can insulate the internals of the battery from the car body I'm sure it will insulate from concrete.
Not sure about older batteries - commenting only on ones available today.

Concrete discharging a battery is an old wives tale IMO.

JT

[wessel]

I agree with Murf, the spilled acid will damage the concrete.

Our UPS batteries all sit on a combination of metal racks and concrete flooring. This is enough batteries to drive a control room full of computers for a minimum of 30 minutes, and until now no problems.

Wessel

[BilgeBoy]

As a mechanic we were always told to keep them off the floor....never did get a straight answer as to why...but this is interesting!!!

http://www.cartalk.com/content/columns/Archive/1999/November/06.html

Megsy

[dogsbody]

Here found this on the web. Will storing my battery on concrete drain the charge? No. Regarding today's batteries, this is a myth. A battery placed on concrete will not discharge any faster, but a battery will discharge over a period of time wherever it is placed. If the battery has a surface layer of acid or grime which is conductive, the battery will self-discharge more rapidly than if it were clean and dry.

This myth does have some historical basis. Many years ago, wooden battery cases encased a glass jar with the battery in it. Any moisture on the floor could cause the wood to swell and possibly fracture the glass, causing it to leak. Later came the introduction of the "hard rubber" cases, which were somewhat porous. A current could be conducted through this container, which had a high carbon content, if the moist concrete floor permitted the current to find an electrical ground. The wise advise of the old days to "not store batteries on concrete" has apparently been passed down to us today, but it no longer applies.

Dave.

[plat-a-puss]

have had 1st hand experiance with concret taking charge out of battery, had a fully charged battery placed it on concrete b4 the day i need it when i picked it up it was dead flat never put a battery on concrete since , never had another flat battery either

[Homer_Jay]

I have been told this years ago from my father and have always to this day never left bateries on the concrete floor. I doubt that it could flatten a battery overnight though must have been some other reason.

[Kendall249]

I've heard that as well and don't store them on concrete. But would be interested to hear if anyone has a scientific explanation on this topic.

[dogsbody]

From Exide Technoligies http://www.exideworld.com/faq/faq_marine.html#concrete

Dave.

[JasonT]

Logic fellas logic!

If a battery could discharge through it's casing don't you think it would discharge really guickly sitting on something as conductive as a #metal plate under a car bonnet?

Physics says it can't. That's gospel for me!
;D ;D ;D

As stated previously, I'm talking aboout batteries you can buy today.. Years ago with rubber casings they could leak acid and conduct between their poles.
Not so with todays hardened plastics.


JT

[Noelm]

I am afraid this one is up there with the black cats and broken mirrors, I can assure you a battery will NOT go flat from storing it on a concrete floor, end of story. Could be a test for myth busters to try, or as I do if at all possible, I just do it as scientific as I can, and prove it for myself, I have done this with lots of things including line twist when spooling, swivels, rod guides "spiral" binds, various knots and all sorts of dull but usually fully explainable stuff.

[davo]

No longer applicable. In the old days batteries case were made from different materials like canvas or similar. I never believed this myth but actually found a web site accidently that expained this. I leave them in concrete all the time. Plastic is an insulator. If batteries discharged though concrete we would have concrete wiring.

[littlejim]

Do people really believe this sort of stuff?

[BigE]

how's this for some theory :o are cars harder to start [smiley=argue.gif] in winter or summer?? now go lie on a concrete floor overnight.......... HHHMMMMM makes ya think.


cheers BigE

[Roughasguts]

Then hows this. A battery will last 18 months longer in a colder not freezing enviroment, compared to a battery in the Desert.

[IcemanII]

Roughasguts

I think you have raised a good point, apparently when a battery is above 26deg the life is reduced due to corrosion growth on the positive terminal, I would think that in Brisbane they are probably often sitting around 35deg during the day, its also worth noting the charging requirements change depending on the battery temperature as the fully charged output voltage will vary.
Have some doubts if any of the expensive 3 and 4 stage chargers take temperature type and brand into account and wonder how well they would do in a lab test.

[Roughasguts]

IcemanII, batteries defy all logic to me.
I found 20 years ago, my batteries use to fail in 43 deg temp, stop the car and then nothing. And hopfully the outback road house didn't charge to much for a new one.

Then I found when I moved, on a cold morning and the battery didn't turn over the motor fast enough to fire up.

All you had to do was pour a bucket of hot water on the battery and she would fire up. (mind you the battery was near stuffed)

Same thing I advised to the wifes girl friends when they asked if I could jump start there car. I couldn't be bothered and that trick got them going several times as well. ?????

Maybe the hot water is a temp solution just exciting the cells enough to throw a few more volts out.

But obviously the battery was stuffed.

[Kendall249]

the equalibrium of these sort of batteries are dependent on temp.

[finga64]

Roughasguts

I think you have raised a good point, apparently when a battery is above 26deg the life is reduced due to corrosion growth on the positive terminal, I would think that in Brisbane they are probably often sitting around 35deg during the day, its also worth noting the charging requirements change depending on the battery temperature as the fully charged output voltage will vary.
Have some doubts if any of the expensive 3 and 4 stage chargers take temperature type and brand into account and wonder how well they would do in a lab test.
There's a bit of the answer to why they can and may discharge.
Any contamination on the battery casing is a conductor. Doesn't matter if the battery case is the best insulator in the world.
If there's dirt, salt or any old crap on the casing then add a bit of moisture whether it's moisture in a humid atmosphere or moisture coming out of the concrete (some sheds don't have plastic under the slab) or vapours out of the battery itself and you have a tracking problem. It doesn't take much at all for a conductive track to exist between terminals or down the casing to the concrete (or ground or metal or whatever).
How many have seen that white powder under a battery when it's on the ground or sitting in the metal battery carrier in the car?? That's a sign of a tracking problem.
Sometimes you don't even need moisture. Dry dirt is a pretty good conductor of electricity. That's why we use M.E.N. systems in our power grids and that's what enables us to use 1 wire 11,000 volt power lines in remote areas instead of the normal 2 or 3 wire systems.
How many people clean their ignition leads to try to stop tracking or shorting out of them to fix a miss fire??
The best way to prevent external discharge is to keep your batteries clean and keep the crap off them. Especially the top.

[ribbit]

it is a old mans tale. I sell Century batteries and the reps will tell you that they store them on concrete in their warehouses.
It does not discharge them just time and lack of charging will discharge them

[saurian]

So i suppose , if you put a battery on a stone put some cement on them
and a few additives they go flat as well ???
Ta

[Reef_fisher]

Have heard the same and it also applies to fuel drums full of fuel. The fuel loses its grunt as with the batteries. Don't know one way or the other. :-?

[rainbow_runner]

Sounds like one for myth busters

There is heaps on stuff on the net saying a big "NO" to this one!!