Men 'lucky to be alive' after capsize

[seabug]

Men 'lucky to be alive' after capsize
Thursday Dec 28 20:11 AEDT
Four fishermen say they are lucky to be alive after their boat capsized off north Queensland.

Two brothers, their cousin and an uncle were left shivering on top of their overturned eight metre catamaran powerboat when one of the hulls began taking on water in rough seas around 4.40am (AEST) on Thursday, about 130km off Mackay.

"It was so cold, waves were just breaking over us and then there was the wind," survivor Andy Milosevic told Network Ten News.

The CQ Rescue Service chopper reached the upturned powerboat at about 8am (AEST) and winched the four men to safety.




"When CQ came, I forgot I was cold and it was just 'Yeah, save us, save us'," he said.

Another survivor, Nick Lehner, said the radio was working, they could not pump out the starboard bilge, and tried unsuccessfully to bail out the sinking vessel manually.

"It got to the stage where it just flipped and we jumped on the roof (hull) and you know, prayed," Peter Milosevic said.

Eventually, they managed to dive under the hull to activate an EPIRB (Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon).

They waited another hour for the rescue helicopter to arrive, winch them to safety and fly them back to Mackay for a check-up in hospital before being allowed to go home.

The men said they have no plans for more fishing trips in the near future.

[saurian]

Hey guys , could happen to lots of us,
I came home early Wednesday morning as it was Howling 25/30 kn
s/se , It was calm at 4am then in it came, I had considered a trip out to the reef about 15 mile from that spot , but the weather forecast for me was not good enough especially on the 27 th .
Must admit quite a few overnight island family campers got caught out.
Boats with 3 adults and 3 kids , 35 km offshore.
And yes there was 2.5 m chop.
Anyway seems like they where lucky and nobody was really hurt.
Ta.

[Kerry]

That was my immediate thought? Why were they even out there? The Tuesday afternoon forecast said it all! And then the forecast simply got worse! That's one mogrel stretch of water in a good SE!

Also the bit of footage on TV showed the hull completely inverted, which based on the description of the apparent issue didn't make a lot of sense. If one sponson filled causing the flip then why was it floating on it's back and not on it's side ;) as one hull was buoyant and the other supposedly not?

Saurian, You gunna find out these things aren't you?

Regards, Kerry.

[saurian]

Kerry , don't know about find out ??
Probably more like a complimation of rumours.
But they where right near my spots as such and it brings it home
Real Fast. Sounds like a scenario of failures , bilge , batteries etc...
And I would put jackets and epirbs on straight away if i was taking
water. ( epirbs on - on a person)
And if you where to go beam on in those conditions you would probably
flip in a high sided cat regardless of the water ingressing in hull/hulls.
But originally the weather was supposed to come in Wednesday pm.
So leaving to come home then as they supposedly planned would be
a normal trip as such. Weather came in faster , look out.
Kerry , I think the hard top would have acted as a keel as such to hold the boat in horizontal position , But then a photo is only a photo.
Easy for us to presume or imagine scenarios.
Ta.

[Mr__Bean]

I think it is a catamaran thing, would have just kept bailing if it was a mono.

- Darren

[saurian]

Might have a problem Bean.
Self draining deck , wouldn't be out there in your mono ......
See you baited me up !!!!
Ta.

[saurian]

No nastyness meant Bean , anyway here's a wave plot of
Baileys islet , on the days it happened .
Note the 4.5 m ish period on 28 th, not for me thanks.
Waves are not like down south , more like sucky chop.
Ta.

[Kerry]

Catamaran thing? Yeah right!


....And if you where to go beam on in those conditions you would probably
flip in a high sided cat regardless of the water ingressing in hull/hulls.

Certainly wouln't be running around at 4am in the morning in that stuff in any direction. In the daytime should not have been a drama.


....But originally the weather was supposed to come in Wednesday pm.
So leaving to come home then as they supposedly planned would be
a normal trip as such. Weather came in faster , look out.

Then one should not have still been there at 4am Thursday morning?

Regards, Kerry.

[saurian]

Kerry , unsure about weather wednesday pm.
Maybe it was already to rough , or as happens a squall hits and hangs
around for few hours , but by then to late.
Maybe they should have left Wednesday morning ??
But if you leave on x-mas day and weather forcast is so called ok , then it is very feasable to get caught out , not trying to blame as I could see
lots of people in the same position . As I witnessed with families getting
smashed on the trip home after x-mas camping trip , they all said the same thing It wasn't due until the afternoon.
Calm one minute howling the next.
Hindsite is a wonderful thing and humans will be human.
Ta.

[Kerry]

Saurian,

Out of interest, which forecast do you use?

[saurian]

Kerry suppose I like the weather ,
Northern waters , southern waters, capricorn channel forecast,
medium range forecast from wx maps ( 6day) , bom 4 day synoptic charts ,latest upper wind analys, creal reef data , coastal data etc.... Combine the lot and you should get an idea.
I've got more on my favourites list but most of above get used regularily.
TA.

[saurian]

Kerry , heres the wind one I use , regularily available to everyone.
Sums up where the boat was and what was happening pretty well.
The red area is roughly the reef off mackay/sarina.
Ta.

[Mr__Bean]

I think it is a catamaran thing, would have just kept bailing if it was a mono.

- Darren

LOL,

Just thought I would throw Kerry a livie......

Cheers,

- Darren
;D ;D ;D

[Kerry]

Thanks Darren, Always being thoughtfull ;D

[Kerry]

Saurian,

Yes wind in this particular stretch of water is something a lot of outsiders have trouble comprehending.

One can't have too much infomation in this area.

Regards, Kerry.

[Smelly]

Hoping they checked their PFD's for presence of C02 bottles... 8-)

[Black_Rat]

Around 130 klms off Mackay and they were rescued about an hour later after setting off the EPIRB by a CQ Rescue Service chopper....

Don't know where CQ Rescue Service chopper is based assuming it's in Mackay? This was a pretty swift rescue and I’d be interested to know what type off EPIRB they had the older 121.5/243 type or the 406 type #:-/ to locate them a quickly as they did.

[saurian]

Choppers in Mackay Black Rat, saw a photo of epirb.
It was an old orange cylindrical one.
If a commercial flight was present at the time epirb would be detected
asap. Then relay info on.
I think it was 3/4hrs or so for response.
Which is fairly good , excellent if it was one of us.
Ta.

[mitch_05]

Don't know where CQ Rescue Service chopper is based assuming it's in Mackay?

The Capricorn Rescue Helicopter Service is located here in rockhampton.

[Kerry]

The CQ Rescue Helicopter is based in Mackay, Capricorn Helicopter is a separate organisation based in Rockhampton, both do the same type of work within their own limits of operation.

An "Orange cylinderical Epirb" would tend to indicate a 121.5 version? Response time is fairly indicative based on satellite detection in this part of the world especially with a ground station in Bundaberg.

Locating a beacon at sea is really not a big deal, any properly equiped aircraft/helicopter will basically fly straight down the signal once an alert is detected.

The signal from an Epirb is unmistakable and even the 406's use the same 121.5mhz homing signal.

Regards, Kerry.

[disorderly]

Please excuse my ignorance,but can someone actually inform me of the sequence of events once an epirb is activated?.And what happens when one is accidentally activated?

cheers Scott

[Black_Rat]

Kerry or Subzero (from my VHF course) may be to best answer #this but I thought Camberra (ACT) was the first to recieve a ditsress signal #:-/ from an EPIRB and direct actions from there #:-?

Damo

[Kerry]

An activated EPIRB is basically a major incident and the alert will generally come via Canberra through the local police who will make whatever call and activate what ever rescources is required depending on the presumed location.

With 121.5mhs beacons there is no such thing as a false alert as all are deemed emergencies until proven otherwise. With 121.5's this generally requires locating the beacon and verifying as such. This is one reason why 121.5 beacons are going to be discontinued as false alerts account for about 98% of all 121.5mhz activations.

When one is accidently activated? then after the second time the helicopter circles your house and you have a boat then best check your Epirb and if on give the friendly people in Canberra a call, they really don't mind you calling, saves a hell of a lot of flying time and when flying time is in the thousands of dollars an hour every minute counts.

Regards, Kerry.

[disorderly]

Who receives the signal in Canberra?

[Chine]

Who receives the signal in Canberra?

The detected EPIRB signal shift was re-transmitted from the satellite to the Local User Terminal in Bundaberg and then on to the Marine Rescue Co-ordination Centre in Canberra which basically co-ordinates SAR nationally.

The MRCC analyses the signal, determines the EPIRB position and allocates rescue resources as required.

Regards

Chine

[Black_Rat]

As I understand from Canberra the signal/distress signal is sent to the Police in the relevant state/area and then they make the call ? #:-?

Given the area they may well make a rescue (chopper or via sea rescue(vessell)) or hand it too those more equiped #8-) VMR, CQ Rescue Services and the others saving our asses from being in the shit !

Damo

[disorderly]

Thanks guys,
All very interesting stuff.
I,m sure those 4 lads will give the thumbs up to epirbs and everyone involved in the process of the rescue.
Its not a bad system when you can be capsized in rough seas 130km offshore and all you have to do is to flick a switch and a chopper will come and find you, pick you up and take you home.

Cheers Scott

[Black_Rat]

Thanks guys,
All very interesting stuff.
I,m sure those 4 lads will give the thumbs up to epirbs and everyone involved in the process of the rescue.
#Its not a bad system when you can be capsized in rough seas 130km offshore and all you have to do is to flick a switch and a chopper will come and find you, pick you up and take you home.
#
# Cheers Scott

#


Amen, It's good to know !

Damo 8-)

[blaze]

except when the detected signal is deemed to be false without first asataining the facts as happened in tasmania and lives were lost because an error in judgement, not a completely fool proof system as there is fools in all aspects of our life.
cheers
blaze

[subzero]

The epirb used was a GME MT250c, or at least it looked like it to me from the news broadcast.

Once activated, the signal is transmited to both commercial aircraft on 121.5 mhz and millitary aircraft on 243 mhz.
More importantly the signal is transmitted to receiving satelites in the Cospas/Sarsat system (A joint venture between the Americans and the Russians, initialy 2 individual systems), which then will relay the information back to a Local User Terminal ONLY IF THE SATELITE, THE LOCAL USER TERMINAL AND THE VESSEL IN DISTRESS ARE SIMULTANEOUSLY WITHIN SITE OF EACH OTHER, that in turn sends it on to the Rescue Co-ordination Centre in Canberra. They then decide who is best able to assist and will make contact to the appropriate authorites. Normaly this is the State or Territory Police but in the instances of an activation far out to sea, they may contact a commercial vessel direct to instruct them to assist as they should be using a reporting fascility called Ausrep so they have a pretty good idea who is in the area. If within range of a hellicopter, they will frequently dispatch this immediately to investigate, locate and assist.

For information on the GME MT250c go here
http://www.gme.net.au/support/Customer/manuals/mt250c.pdf

For information on the Cospas/Sarsat system go here
http://www.cospas-sarsat.org/MainPages/indexEnglish.htm

For information on the Rescue Co-ordination Centre (Part of AMSA), go here
http://www.amsa.gov.au/Search_and_Rescue/

For the Marine Radio Operators Handbook go here
http://www.amcom.amc.edu.au/handbook/amc.4216.mrohb.update.pdf

121.5/243 epirbs are analogue, 406 epirbs are digital. 406 epirbs do not require that the satelite, the vessel in distress and a local user terminal be in view of each other at the same time. 406 epirbs can store your alert and process the information when comming with in site of a LUT or a GLUT.

121.5/243 will narrow the search area down to approximately 20km, 406 epirb will narrow it down to about 6km, GPIRB will narrow it down to the accuracy of the GPS and system... between 3-30 metres.

In the situation above, having a bright hull will help immensely to locate you during daylight hours even over large distances from the air if you have overturned.

Hope the info helped
Cheers Lloyd

[Black_Rat]

That's a sad situation there blaze #:( #may I ask what happened there ?

Damo

EDIT: Cheers Llyod interesting stuff #:o a 406 I’ll be investing in for sure #:) for an additional $300 odd dollars it may well save your ass sooner #;D

[Chine]

Just a couple of other points that are relevant.

Many rescue helicopters are not enabled with "auto hover" which basically means that they are unable to winch retrieve at night. If you are in distress at night and have activated the EPIRB, the attending helicopter may be unable to render immediate assistance....so do not assume that he has not seen you. He will remain on station and guide surface craft to your location.....which basically says that you are going to spend longer in the water at night.

This particular rescue response in this thread is of an extraordinarily short timeframe.....luckily for the people. It is safe to say that all the planets were aligned.

The 406MHz EPIRB will still incur false alerts although to a substantially lesser degree. If you set off the unit away from your registered address and cannot be contacted on your registered numbers then an assumption of response must be made.......and there will be some people who fail to register and/or update contact details.

Rgds

Chine

[disorderly]

Blaze,
Its tragic when with all the technology and trained personnel at our disposal,deaths result because of a human error or oversight on the rescuers side. # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # Cheers Lloyd,
Some good info there.I think,like Black Rat I'll be investing in a 406 unit as well

[saurian]

Thanks for all the epirb info guys.
Good to understand why some areas have slower response as such.
I think I'll be getting a 406 well and truly before my current epirbs are
due for replacing.
Chine , not sure if mackays chopper has auto hover.
Hope it has, not touching wood or anything like that.
Ta.

[blaze]

hi guys
not real sure of the exact details any more but it would come under a google I think
basicly the signal appeared to come from land but was indeed coming from the water. All happened a fair few years ago and was one of the reason a lot of changes were made after enquiries into why the system failed.
cheers
blaze

[Chine]

Thanks for all the epirb info guys.
Good to understand why some areas have slower response as such.
I think I'll be getting a 406 well and truly before my current epirbs are
due for replacing.
Chine , not sure if mackays chopper has auto hover.
Hope it has, not touching wood or anything like that.
Ta.

Saurian,

This is where MRCC/AUSSAR in Canberra come into play. If they note that the night signal was located 100nm offshore I would suggest that they would be endeavouring to proceed a chopper with 24 hour winchdown capability. If that was not available the alternate aircraft would be kitted with liferafts etc to drop down. They do a great job.

When the RAAF hornets are flying at night off Williamtown NSW they have a large helicopter, with 24 hour capability,
on immediate standby.

Keep in mind...this only applies to night time events.

Regards

Chine

[Kerry]

As far as I am aware (and this is a few years old) there is/was only 1 auto hover capable rescue helicopter based in Qld, at Cairns?

Blackhawks have been used out of Townsville but only when the distance requires the capability. In fact one of the Townsville Blackhawks set a world record endurance for a rescue of the Qld coast a few years back.

However the EPIRB discussion is interesting as obviously lives were saved in this instance with 121.5 technology yet as from midnight Sunday 121.5mhz Epirb's are no longer legal in the US, for recreational or commercial use.

Regards, Kerry.