Customs Page Update

[Sportfish_5]

Hasnt been clearer 8-)

Straight from the horse's mouth so it must be good.

http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=5549#e987


Merry Xmas

Greg

[rajawolf]

Just when I wanted a electronic hand-held insect zapper for the midgies..they are banned. #;)

[Tony_N]

So what happens if you forget to go through those procedures? Is there a fine for not paying up front?

[rajawolf]

I think they just keep and auction your goods....I might be wrong, but it is a government department #8-)..and we know how they love OUR money.

[imported_admin]

Also don't forget to factor in that when you import some products that you may not have any warranty coverage in Australia. Even if the brand and product is readily available in Australia. Having to send them back to the states, or wherever, for repair could get pretty costly and you would be without your item for a fair time.

[cabfisher]

I all depends on what you are trying to import weather or not there is a fine or just confercation
So think before you try aey Cheers Harry

[HOOKLINEnSINKER]

if i can save 800bucks on a gps/sounder because they rip you off over here..il take that chance. so what, i pay gst and maybe some small tax.who cares .my 800 i saved will cover those costs.
find a mate in the states have it sent to him then get him to write gift . works well ;)

[SundownMarine]

To add to this string is the following

link:http://www.accesscomms.com.au/comply.htm

In summary, all radiocommuncation equipment, ie gps and sounders, require CTICK approval for legal use in Australia.

We are not bagging the US dealers but everyone who brings illegal non-CTICK approved product into Australia should be aware that the unit may be withheld and a fine incurred.

Circumventing import duties and GST is also high on customs agenda in today's world.

Also be aware that the Australian agents/dealers read these boards and are moving as quickly as possible to get customs on the job.

By all means save money where you can but by supporting your local dealer our advice and service will be here in the future.

We advise researching import procedures carefully before handing over your hard earned cash to a faceless company overseas.

Sundown Marine.

[HOOKLINEnSINKER]

well stop ripping people off and we might buy from you
daniel

[mickey7]

I want to spend 7 grand on boat electronics,so let's shop locally. I'm still waiting for return calls from salesmen on prices.When you do get a responce there trying to offload an outdated model at top price.Very few have done any reseach on their product and cannot offer much advice,what i can buy landed in aus from the us including duty and gst for $7000.00 will cost about 11,500.00 here, in short local service is crap.Why is their so much price difference,can the importers and dealers give an explanation to justify this huge difference.So now we have dealers moving quickly on the job,all this does is to affirm the contempt that their is for the boating public of AUS.Maybe when the Free Trade aggreement between AUS and the US is in place we may get a better deal.And in responce to sundownmarine are you suggesting that International boaties visiting our shores have illegal electronics or that we need CTICK aproval for our GPS to lock on to US owned satalites.Convince me why I should hand out $3,500.00 more to aus dealers! or reduce your prices and improve the customer service.I don't mind paying a bit more but not the huge difference their is.

[scuttlebutt]

I wouldn't know the first thing about running a business. Sure it gives a warm feeling to buy locally - but it also gives a warm feeling buying for a really good price. It's a matter of balance, and when there are such savings to be made, I wouldn't criticise anyone for looking overseas.

Remember the local economy includes the customer, and that saved money can then be spent on trivial things like food and fuel.

cheers,

steve

[SundownMarine]

Mickey7,


In response to your question about visitors to our shores from other parts of this rock ,the answer is contained on the customs page we linked in our first post on this string.
The purpose of the link was so everyone would be aware of what customs are doing in this area.
On the contempt you perceive ,it is non existant.We must follow rules being a business and the public under Australian law must follow the same rules , contempt for Australian law is the issue here and that is what customs is moving on.
On price,we cannot buy for the same price most U.S. distributors sell for,we support our local agents and are bound by that.

As we cannot see where you are from i.e. no location in your profile we cannot comment on service or prices in your local area,if you happen to be in Brisbane (or far away for that matter)we suggest giving us a call here and let us have a crack at any future wants or needs,you may get a suprise-or you may not.
We do more than a few big dollar electronic fit outs and have been complimented on our service and pricing just as often,we would be happy to explain anything further over a phone call.



Steve,

Fair enough,
As we said save where you can just be aware of what you are doing.



Daniel,

No-comment.



SundownMarine.

[mickey7]

Sundownmarine,
as stated in my post the price includes stamp duty and gst I have never stated that i am avoiding any duties or taxes, so as far as i am concerned i am abiding by australian law as you must do.The difference in price still remains at approx $3,500.00.I would be happy to buy locally, but not at that margin.I will contact you with my requirements for you to quote.
Regards Mickey.

[SundownMarine]

Mickey7,

Thank you for your considered correspondence on this topic.
We look forward to doing the best we can on a quote for anything you may need.

SundownMarine.

[eatship]

Importing your own electronics WILL save you money. However, the australian laws are in place for reasons. The same as having vehicles complianced. Yeah, sure you can imort a BMW from germany and save $25,000, and sure you can drive it here, and yes it will perform the same as a locally bought one, but that does not mean it is legal.

I recently purchased an engagement ring, at my local jeweller it was going to cost $6500. I saw one nearly identical, same cut clarity carot etc, in the US for $3500US. I did think about it for a while but at the end of the day, the value of the ring to me was worth more than the saving.... yeah, i could have saved $1500 but I would never trust anyone I have not met when buying items of that value.

Is it just me or is handing over $7000 to someone overseas in hope they are trustworthy a bit risky...

[skippa]

Sundown Marine,

I guess what most people are frustrated with is someone is making big bucks from us, that's average Aussie blokes and girls.

We are constantly told we, Australia, are apart of the global economy yet the prices for exactly the same products are being 'flogged' to us at much higher prices. I am not talking about cheap chinese sweat shops flogging undies or hankies.

Some people will pay extra for good service and some will simply shop for the best/cheapest price, I guess we would be boring if we were all the same.

But the bottom line is this .... we work hard for our money and its a wise man (or girl) that makes their money work hard for them too. Why sould we hand over our cash to you guys when we can #legally buy from os and still save our money, which of course on many occasions is then returned into the Australian economy.

I guess it's an Australian trait that we don't like being taken for fools or taken advantage of either for that matter, and I can't help but feel someone thinks we are a captive market, and think along the lines of #thats the Aus price and thats that.

Well I can tell ya fellas it's a big world out there and its ours for the taking and #when your selling international brands with huge price differences, the competition is not just the bloke down the road.


Cheers,
Tony # 8-)

[mickey7]

Thumb's up to Sundown Marine,
After a phone conversation with Jason from Sundown Marine, which both sides of the debate was expressed, he endeavoured to do the best deal he could,and with his supplier's co-operation that has been achieved. The deal is, a Furuno 1824c with 2.2KW radar,GPS,chartplotter and fish finder with transducer.The price agreed to is more than if i purchased from the US,.....BUT NOT THAT MUCH MORE, with the added bonus of free training,help and advise with the install and local backup service.This is better Than i could get from the US.Deposit will be placed tomorrow and i look forward to having a quality system in my new boat.My experience with Sundown Marine(Jason) today has renewed hope for a fairer deal for us boaties.service provided to me today has set the bench mark for the other electronic retailers to follow.Any AUSFISH boaties considering purchases have all to gain and nothing to loose contacting Jason-Sundown Marine.
P.S. Thanks to AUSFISH as they have provided a platform that ultimatly benifits everyone.

[HOOKLINEnSINKER]

thats right sundown marine, NO comment.
I couldnt comment on charging 800bucks more for a garmin 178C either.
good luck daniel

[Kiktz]

I have made this comment before, You, Me, US are the customer at the end of the day. When buying any item the onus is on us to shop around and getthe very best deal that is out there. I have to say that a tackle shop of sorts that I have not really shopped at before has now got loyality from me and a mate.
You know who you are......... Thanks Again

Dont be scared or shy in being a hard bastard when buying, you will be suprised what you will save. No one likes to be ripped off, rule of thumb we work hard for our money dont waste it.

HooklinenSinker, Mate Tell'em that they are dear as hell if you like.
Most business' will look after you if you go about it in the right manner.

[HOOKLINEnSINKER]

too right kiktz.
people are daft not to shop from the states. unless you have more money than sence. there are a lot of shops selling on ebay now and using paypal you get extra security. dealers over here just give you a load of baloney about gst and all the other crap. big deal gst is 10%. ive lived in the states and in europe and have done many transactions through the internet and not one has ever failed me.
who in there right mind wants to pay $1549 for a gps when you can get it for less than 1/2 that price.
oh ye sundown marine says so because we must support our local dealer.mmmmmm
if anyone wants some help or tips on purchasing from overseas il be glad to help.
daniel

[SundownMarine]

Mickey7,

Mate
Glad we could help,all is in progess and i'm confident you have a far superior deal through us than any dealer ,anywhere.
Once you take into account the extras we organised through Furuno Australia it is a great deal and something impossible to achieve from the U.S.
Thanks again for the chance to prove we can do the job if asked.


Kiktz,

Spot on.
The customer is no.1 and if asked we will do our very best to accomodate any request asked of us.All of us that work in the trade turn into customers after work and we deal just as hard as customers as anyone who we serve.



Daniel,

It seems you are set on buying from the U.S. and fair enough if that's the way you want to buy.
We can only suggest you give us a crack at future wants and see if we can do for you what we did for Mickey7.
One more thing to consider over and above price is that if you use #non-C-Tick approved equipment on your boat and you have an insurance claim lodged against you or indeed you lodge a claim due to an accident
there is no insurance company in Australia that will pay on a boat that has been involved in an accident that has been using non C-Tick approved electronics.Every company uses serial no. tracking and insurance companies will find out where it came from and then you have no cover,at all.Even worse if a fatality eventuates,then the user would be criminally liable for the accident.

As we said before everyone should save money the way they see fit but be aware of what the consequences are.




Sundown Marine.

[HOOKLINEnSINKER]

sundown marine, its not that i want to buy from the states. your missing the point. i would buy from here if my garmin 178C was maybe a few hundred more just so i can have it now. but not 820bucks more. that is just out of order.that hard earned cash we work for that you talked about ,i would have to do a lot of overtime to pay for the same item just to fill your coffers. NO CHANCE.
next message you write lets talk price. could you do the garmin 178C for $731.97? (aussie $$) or maybe $200 more? still no .maybe for $1549 like the rest? YES THATS THE PRICE SIR.
Dont take it personal i know your only doing your job.and iam sure you are trying your best.

daniel

[wayneoro]

mate theres nothing on 2hd hand units 1 scrath makes it 2nd hand ebay has plenty any way it would be unaustralian to stop a battler getting personal gear at the best price cheers wayneoro

[THE_BILL_COLLECTOR]

hooklinensinker,

where can you get these units so cheap from? I am interested in getting one but cant seem to find them anywhere near that price.. I too would have to think that paying double is a bit rich.....Send me a pm if need be.

[HOOKLINEnSINKER]

ive sent you an email the bill collector.

[THE_BILL_COLLECTOR]

Thanks for that info dan! it deffinitly is an eye opener! something i am taking into consideration!

bill collector

[scubapro]

HOOKLINEnSINKER

I would appreciate it if you would tell me where to get cheaper gear please.

Scubapro

[Heath]

To add to this string is the following

link:http://www.accesscomms.com.au/comply.htm

In summary, all radiocommuncation equipment, ie gps and sounders, require CTICK approval for legal use in Australia.

We are not bagging the US dealers but everyone who brings illegal non-CTICK approved product into Australia should be aware that the unit may be withheld and a fine incurred.

Circumventing import duties and GST is also high on customs agenda in today's world.

Also be aware that the Australian agents/dealers read these boards and are moving as quickly as possible to get customs on the job.

By all means save money where you can but by supporting your local dealer our advice and service will be here in the future.

We advise researching import procedures carefully before handing over your hard earned cash to a faceless company overseas.

Sundown Marine.



Not that I doubted you Sundown Marine, but that info didn't sit well with me. So I fired off an email to the ACMA & asked the question about CTICK approval for items imported for personal use.
Their reply below.

Hello Heath

The EMC regulations apply to "suppliers" of products to the Australia market. If the VHF marine radio is a 'one off' for your own personal use, you are not required to comply with the EMC regulations.

However, just for your information, if the device was able to connect to the public telephone network, for example a modem in a laptop it would need to comply with Australian standards even if it was a 'one off'.

Thank you for your inquiry. Please do not hesitate to contact me again if you require further clarification.

Regards
Joanne van Uden
Compliance Officer
Australian Communications and Media Authority

[HOOKLINEnSINKER]

nice one heath
need we say more ;D daniel

[Outsider]

;D

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Only suckers pay Aussie retail.

Heath - you're a suspicious bugger ;D - and rightfully so it seems. ;)

Sundown Marine - shame on you. ::)

I must say I was originally suprised to see SM adds on Ausfish. Now I'm just disappointed.

[baldyhead]

HOOKLINEnSINKER, do me a favour and pm me that info too please...cheers baldy

[DaneCross]

I'll add my 2 bobs worth to this by describing my latest purchase. I am one of the biggest tight-arses around when it comes to buying items of substantial cost, I'll shop around for weeks to find my best price and JB (and now Heath) can vouch for that ::). I was in the market for a VHF radio and after some shopping around discovered the cheapest I could get a VHF from an Australian retailer was $199 for a Uniden on special at Whitworths, however the Uniden is bottom of the range and not water proof. So I turned my attentions to a US site and discovered that, for $142US + $38US, I could have myself an Icom IC-402S. This unit retails here for $544.50 or $419 'on special'. Exchange rates at the time put my costing for the Icom at $246AU saving me $173 which, for those who like %-off discounts, is around 41% off what I would of paid here; AND, from what I understand, is a far superiour unit to the Uniden for an extra $47.
Now here comes the impressive part, I ordered the radio late Wednesday night, order was confirmed early hours Thursday morning and the radio arrived at my door Monday afternoon. Needless to say I'm a happy overseas shopper ;D ;D
DC

[SundownMarine]

Just for the sceptics we are not dodging this post due to Heath's information.What we are doing is gathering information from various state and Commonwealth government sources to give a difinitive end to this string from us.

We stand by the fact all of the information we have provided here is correct and not rumor.

The fact there are so many out there that have very quickly targeted us to defame us was something we allready knew would happen and were prepared for,such is the nature of this industry.

For those that use our services and are happy with it (see tackle chat also) we thank you for your support through this site.







Sundown Marine.

[DaneCross]

Sundown, I hope through my post I wasn't seen as targeting you. I was simply stating my recent experience. I am glad you have jumped on the Ausfish bandwagon and are supporting the site (you'd be mad not to given the potential customer base) and if I was nearer to you I have no doubts you would be recieving my business at one time or another.
Cheers,
DC

[Heath]

Sundown Marine,

These chat sites have for a long time needed some big players such as yourselves to be involved. It's all healthy debate ( sometimes heated ;D )
It's great that you guys are doing that bit extra for your customers. ;)

[rajawolf]

Just one more problem too consider...and it can happen also with mail order within oz also...

I purchased items from the states..saved big bucks...when the first item was sent airmail.. I was issued with a tracking number from USPS, the item never arrived.

USPS can only track (in my case anyway) the item till it leaves the United States then it is on its own. It was stolen or lost after that...(not pointing my finger at anyone in Australia) :-X

I was lucky as the Seller paid insurance for me, and the item was resent again...this time it arrived.

But was a big hassel as had to wait for USPS to investigate where it had dissappeared.

I have bought several big ticket item since then ....and have had no problems at all.

Cheers,

Tony

[Heath]

When you get a tracking number via USPS, you can track it once it enters australia via Australia posts website. ;)

Have done it several times.

[skippa]

I stand by my original post, which has had no response.

It was not an attack on you Sundown Marine, but an expression of frustration from an ordinary Aussie bloke. I guess when you read back thru most of the posts we're all talking marine electronic's, not hooks, sinkers, some general fishing gear or even boats for that matter. Aussie businesses still have to make a dollar too, I know.

But the dollars we're talking are not small to the average bloke, so when it comes to electronics why is there such a huge price difference and am I wrong in reading into your responses, that #you seem to be offended by some Ausfish members who have bought from os or challenged the aussie prices for these products.

Someone is making bucks from us, be it the distributer, the Gov or the companies themselves, but we are in a global economy now and if I can legally buy the same product for 40 or more % less, why wouldn't I?

Its great that you guys have come onboard (excuse the pun) to support this fantastic site, and I wish more dealers would join you .... who knows this could be a start of a new marketing strategy for the marine industry and you guys are at the forfront. Rest assured guys, where your compeditive, price or service wise, you'll get our support too.

Cheers,
Tony # 8-)

[HOOKLINEnSINKER]

Well to my delight my garmin 178C arrived today. it was sent on the 22nd of nov. it took 8days and cost me $731 aussie bucks.now thats what i call a great service and an unreal saving. to top that off NO GST or anyother costs. dont know about a c-tick but i give it a big tick
daniel

[SundownMarine]

Skippa,

The problem is not being offended by those who buy OS in any way, shape or form.
We say again if you can save money and get what you need from the States and it can be done legally and with no problem then do it.
Trouble is we can compete on most things as there are things we can do here that are simply impossible from far away,such as service and after sales service.

What frustrates us is when we see an imported unit come to us because it has failed and we cannot help that customer.
We had a gent in yesterday who is a regular here (Ausfish)who purchased some Furuno product,he got his Ausfish discount and then went on to say it is just not worth the effort to get it from the states,he went on to mention his job revolves around importing product and he still won't do it because he knows of the hastles involved if things go wrong.
So at the end of the day the trouble is the consiquences of the initial purchase that we then see after the fact .Customers that had no idea of the costs imparted when having to fix such a unit then have a crack at us because we can't help them......that is frustrating.

On the margin thing.
Rest assured if there was that much margin for the industry here in marine electronics you would see the prices drop to U.S. levels at super competitive events where there is many retailers in the same place such as boat shows and this just does not happen because we simply can't sell product at below what we pay for it.


Thankyou for your comments.

Sundown Marine.

[rajawolf]

When you get a tracking number via USPS, you can track it once it enters australia via Australia posts website. ;)

Have done it several times.


Heath,

That is great..it has been about 18 months now since I bought my gear OS.....to track a postal item from the US to the front door will save on anxiety and sleepless nights. :) Hope AP did not have it back then, cause it was a lot of worry.

Thanks for that info,

Tony

[Heath]

Been well over 3 years ;D

[Heath]

Skippa,

The problem is not being offended by those who buy OS in any way, shape or form.
We say again if you can save money and get what you need from the States and it can be done legally and with no problem then do it.
Trouble is we can compete on most things as there are things we can do here that are simply impossible from far away,such as service and after sales service.

What frustrates us is when we see an imported unit come to us because it has failed and we cannot help that customer.
We had a gent in yesterday who is a regular here (Ausfish)who purchased some Furuno product,he got his Ausfish discount and then went on to say it is just not worth the effort to get it from the states,he went on to mention his job revolves around importing product and he still won't do it because he knows of the hastles involved if things go wrong.
So at the end of the day the trouble is the consiquences of the initial purchase that we then see after the fact .Customers that had no idea of the costs imparted when having to fix such a unit then have a crack at us because we can't help them......that is frustrating.

On the margin thing.
Rest assured if there was that much margin for the industry here in marine electronics you would see the prices drop to U.S. levels at super competitive events where there is many retailers in the same place such as boat shows and this just does not happen because we simply can't sell product at below what we pay for it.


Thankyou for your comments.

Sundown Marine.





Sundown Marine,

You have hit the nail on the head. A lot of people simply do not realise that some Australian distributers will not warrant a unit purchased OS. Some manufacturers have gone as far as not even repairing a unit bought from OS. Now that I class as down right rude. Where should it matter where the unit was purchased, if I am footing the cost of repair? Anyway thats a different story. Back to warranty.

My mate had a Garmin fish finder that he bought locally with a crook transducer. Took him over a month to get a new one. My Lowrance unit I bought from the USA had a transducer go faulty as well. I simply emailed the Lowrance USA help department, they emailed back a few things to try, which I tried & I even tried the transducer on a mates boat to make sure it was the issue. From the time I notified Lowrance USA that I had proved the transducer to be the issue, to the time I receieved a new transducer on my door step was 5 days. Sent email on Monday night & had a new transducer on my door step on Friday morning. Now this was dealing direct with Lowrance USA. When overseas companies are providing service like that, it raises the stakes immensly for the Australian suppliers.

I honestly beleieve retailers such as yourselves are between a rock and a hard place when it comes to this, for you can not simply even buy the units at wholesale cost for less than we get them from the USA. Just have a look in this thread as too how many people asked for a PM to where to buy these units OS.

I can see Australian distributers suffering from this global economy. Some say it is their own fault, profiterring from us working class Aussies. But us working class Aussies, are getting just that little bit smarter.

[Barrymundi]

Welcome aboard Sundown Marine. If you really want to hear what the consumer thinks this is the right spot.

Interesting post and I look forward to your response from your research to gather some more facts.

Customers are funny creatures, I went to a local shop to buy a $3000 sounder, well they were a little busy behind the counter talking to each other, after 10 minutes of checking the sounder on display I left. I purchased it direct from the states for $2000 all up.

I also contacted another Brisbane retailer who was advertising good prices on Lowrance products via a monthly fishing magazine. The prices were pretty good, too good. Being a bit sus I called Lowrance direct and was advised the model on sound was superseded. If it failed they would not repair it, only offer an upgrade to the next model at an additional cost. Not 100% on the name of the company but I am sure if provoked it will come back to me.

Good luck with the all boys here, they really are a friendly mob, but very passionate


Al

[Wyoming]

Guys, I think you are being a little tough on Sundown Marine and the Aussie retailers. You would have to expect these dealers to have a higher price than a mail order outfit.

The Oz dealers are generally well informed in respect of the products they sell and they carry the stock, paid for from the proceeds from previous sales. They also carry all the brochures, they sometimes have repair facilities and they have a premisis where you can check out the gear and do the comparisons, etc. You can't touch and feel over the net and you certainly can't make a judgement on the honesty and integrety of the man in the USofA who is able to offer the discounted goodies. How pissed off would Sundown be if HookLinenSinker did all his research in their shop then bought o'seas followed by severly bagging Sundown? I'll bet this happens every day.

Lets face it, there are very few people who go into the Oz instrument dealer, fork out $1,000 on a widget without having obtained a few prices.

I WANT Sundown and the Oz dealers to make a profit. I want them to compete like hell between themselves so that the Oz punters get the best price. I WANT them to make a profic because I want them to survive, because I love going to marine shops. Don't be afraid to screw them down: they know the extent of their bottom line price. As a matter of interest, Sundown Marine are very competitive with their prices on rods & reels, so my guess is that they are not over-the-top with prices of their electronics.

My view, anyway
Neil

[HOOKLINEnSINKER]

did sundown marine write those words under your picture wyoming???
I do buy from our local fishing outlet when i think its a fair price! so dont judge me on a few purchases i make from the states, to save me hundreds and a few less overtime hours.
If it wasnt for guys like me then sundowner could charge what he wanted.
do you think sundowner is posting hes ads in here because hes a nice guy doing you all a favour??
wake up pal.

daniel

[revs57]

I have read through these posts and have been following it with interest for days now. I didn't intend to get involved because I don't know a lot about importing/duties/taxes and policies which is what the thread is about, but I now feel I need to make this observation.

I want to qualify my reply by saying that I have no financial interest in Sundown Marine. I am not being asked to make this reply or being paid for its content. I am writing this reply in the interests of fairness and the interests of Ausfish. The are my thoughts alone to respond to some of the content contained in this thread.

Given one Ausfisher has turned this personal, hitting at SM and any who are seeking to be concillitory like Wyoming and from the agro tone of the posts, bagging one of our site sponsors and now beginning to question the integrity of other members I feel the need to give my $20.00 worth.

Sundown Marine is a business and like every business that sponsors this site is looking for return on sponsorship dollars, what is wrong with that?

And if they have specials to offer (see tackle chat discussion) or information to share on importing/duties/GST that will help members not get into trouble with authorities isn't that only going to help us???

Tax/duty evaison is a crime and Sundown is attempting to provide the same quality service and info to members through this medium, not just build a case to buy from them that the skeptics would want to make us think.

The jury is out at the moment while Sundown is researching the debate...which is the point of the thread...but I note that in their responses never have they got personal or resorted to bagging members or anyone else..and they aren't saying "buy it from me!!!"

To balance their presence here, and being sensitive to the possibility of being misconstrued with the kinds of thinking HLS is coming with, Sundown Marine have clearly committed themselves to provide the most competitive prices possible and most qualified expertise available to see Ausfish members get the best possible deal and support on gear they as a business are able to give. And they are following through...just look at the many positive posts from those of us who utilise their services...

Wyoming's reflections are right IMO...and I want to support Aussie dealers with my money...Its our economy...I pay tax here...I will eventually retire here...get a pension here if Superannuation continues to under perform....Local businesses employ my mates...who have families to feed to...why just think of self???

I'm not saying we shouldn't shop for the best possible deal...but shop here. I'm sure we have all paid too much for marine/fishing gear at one point or another, but Sundown are doing their level best to provide quality service with competitively prices product and follow through on their promise.

Nobody's judging you Daniel...but when you point the finger at someone there is always three pointing straight back at you. I can appreciate the attempt to save a few dollars and cut the overtime hours back...but have you ever shopped at Sundown?

I'm glad you support your local tackle shop (when YOU think its a fair price) but have you ever considered that if everyone took the same attitude to you...saving comparitively few dollars could mean more employment for more of your Aussie Bro's and Sis's rather than just thinking of yourself? What have you got against an Aussie business making profit? Isn't that is why you have a job???

And I think you overstate the case when you say "If it wasn't for people like me Sundown could charge whatever they like". Mate, I was shopping at Sundown saving good dollars and getting quality advise long before you even came on with that overstatement...Sorry Mate, I think you overrate yourself and others like you and have come in Hook Line and Sinker!

Man its a small world some people live in...I wonder who it is that needs to wake up mate? No offence intended but if the cap fits...pull your head in!!!

We've got to look at the bigger picture here...

Like I said...my $20.00 worth...

now lets get back to the debate...

[Barrymundi]

lol well said

[HOOKLINEnSINKER]

so iam the only one thats been a bid harsh on sundown??retail is a tough business. i have been there got the t-shirt. you should read the whole disscussion before you start having a go at me REV. this site is for opinions and i will have my say like everyone else.sundown marine was stretching the truth a little about what will happen if you buy overseas.and he got caught out. Sundown and i have IM but he never got back to my questions i have personally asked him.he said he wasnt avoiding the questions but is getting the information and he will get back to me. SO YOU DONT KNOW HALVE THE STORY.
sometimes when we write on here it sounds worse when written then if we were in a room having a discussion.
if i were you rev i would venture a little further than over the NSW border on your next trip. you might just sneak a deal in your bag on your return trip from the states and then maybe your opinion would be worth 20 bucks hls

[THE_BILL_COLLECTOR]

I have been following this post 4 sum time know and dont really know where it it is gona go from hear.

i couldnt agree more with revs57, if it wasn't 4 australian companies making a dollar, where would we make our dollars to live????

there is always going to be people that import to save money but at the end of the day it isnt a risk that i would take!! there the people that are going to have the problems and have no one wanting to help them! let it be there problem!!

i'm staying with bying in aust and always will. at least i know that when my kids grow up and want to go fishing and boating that there will be places out there to get all my gear and at good prices. not having to wait 10 days 4 my gear to turn up in the mail.

Bill Collector

[HOOKLINEnSINKER]

mmm you certainly changed your mind quick bill collector. but like i said everyone is entitled to there opinion. i guess paying double is ok for some.
if i have offended anyone in anyway i apoligise. i think this subject has drifted off course from its original subject.
we are all different and come from different backgrounds. i have drifted from aust to america and europe for over 20yrs due to work.now i live back in australia permanently and i feel the prices are too steep. but hey so what thats only my experience and opinion. and iam free to do as i wish.
all the best daniel

[Wyoming]

Well HLS, it seems that you are an angry person even if I only know HALVE the story and I thank you for your in-depth analysis. For such a worldly person, I'm surprised that you chose to return to Oz where everything that you buy, you are constantly being ripped off. #Could it have something to do with thye lifestyle perhaps?#

For your info, Sundown didn't write my words - I live on the south side and I have only visited them twice in the last 6 years and on both occasions, they were for very good deals which I gladly took up. #Similarly, I have visited Glen down at Motorama once for an excellent deal (note that Glen is not related to me nor do we owe each other money). #I too, returned to live in Oz after 20+ years of living in the US and Asia - pay the price or p1ss off.

My point is that its quite legitimate to buy wherever you want, but don't bag the Australian suppliers simply because you can get a better deal overseas.

As for the other readers of this thread, I had to wonder when someone would come to the rescue of the retailers and I'm pleased that Revs, Al_NFI and TBC came in defense and I hold my position that if we all bought from overseas, fishing and small business in Oz would be in deep doo-doos.

That's it from me.

[revs57]

Hey Daniel,

I wasn't having a go at you mate...just offering my opinion and suggesting reasons why you might be able to take a chill pill.

You turned the thread personal...cracking off at Sundown and Wyoming...and now me...sure Ausfish is a discussion forum where people are entitled to their opinions, but not at the expense of ripping into other people or site sponsors. Mate we need our sponsors particulaly when they are doing a great job...just check the thread on Furuno 600L electronics chat...

You tell me I only know half the story...I read all the posts...I said that the Jury is out...did you miss that? We are all waiting for Sundown's reply, including you and its coming...so why the personal attacks mate?

Yep, your right...when you've lived overseas you get a different perspective on the global economy thing...and local prices can seem to be inflated...but that doesn't change the fact that we live in the land of Aus and should be doing our darndest to support our local lads to ensure a service for now and the future. Why send your bucks to USA where their business pay tax and their tax system tips more than 14 billion dollars per fortnight into weapons of mass destruction so they can control and manipulate the global economy?

I'm suggesting there is a bigger picture that we all need to consider...and its not just about saving a few bucks...

And mate, I was in the States earlier this year and didn't buy one skeric of fishing gear...my business belongs to my friends...relationships are worth so much more than money...wouldn't you agree?

You've apologised for any offence...so do I if my post caused you any grief or injury...yes this medium can be hard to communicate attitude...you are intitled to your opinions but please be careful to stick to the topic and not let things turn personal.

By the way...Cairns ins't the only place to catch good reefies and pelagics. Northern New South Wales provides some great fishing too...that completes my $20.00 worth

Cheers

Rhys

[revs57]

Man, Greg you opened a can of worms here mate

back to the debate...

Cheers

Rhys

[Sportfish_5]

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[HOOKLINEnSINKER]

mate i wasnt talking about fishing gear. your changing the story.otherwise this would be posted in the tackle section.
i have had loads of IM inquiries on this site on how to go about buying from OS. if you think saving more than halve the cost of a gps is wrong then so be it.
actually you have me all wrong iam not angry iam actually quite amused at what you write about paying through the nose to keep the retailer afloat. meanwhile he drives by in a BMW and waves to you in your oldshitbox . hahahaha
i have made my last post in this section. we are not getting any further.because really you dont have a clue.if you want a discussion by phone by all means leave a number and il call you.

[revs57]

There you go getting all personal again...I'm not sure that I'm the one who doesn't have a clue...ahhh...what's the point! Some blokes just don't get it do they???

[skippa]

Ummmm,

Didn't this start as importing from OS (customs update?) and since it's in the Electronic Section are we not talking about Import Marine Electronics??

So how did we get onto talking about sending the poor ol Aussie marine retailer broke? Electronics are not the B & end all of a marine dealership. Last I looked at Sundown or Springwood Marine for that matter, there sure as hell was a lot more on the shelves tha Radios and Sounders.

Lighten up guys, some agree some don't, but there really is someone here in good ol Aus thats making a lot of money from Electronics, sounds like it's not the retailers tho ... but the question is who .....

Best part about this forum as far as Sundown Marine would be concerned, is they have tapped into their customer base/market and are receiving free feedback .... priceless.

We love their deals, advice and support so keep up the good work fellas. But on the down side or perhaps an opportunatey for improvement as far as marine electronics are concerned, the Aust Marine Industry need to get their act together to work on bridging the big price gap that currently exists. If people can save 40% or more on big ticket electronic items, you better believe that there's going to be a lot of blokes go for it.

Well thats my 2 bobs worth ....



Cheers,
Tony 8-)

[revs57]

Yeah too true...good on ya Skippa :) and with only 2 bobs worth...I had $20.00 worth a post or two ago...you cheapskate!!! ;D ;D ;D ;)

Sorry for the diversion guys...

And yep...I agree Skippa...

Someone is making heaps - Importer? Wholsaler? Institutions that manipulate the money market and make a killing over night varying currency rates .5cents? Everyone wants their cop...

Cutting out the middle men certainly drops back the cost...and the "buy it overseas" option will be attractive to we fisho's with limited resources...

But I still reckon there's a bigger picture to consider...

Cheers

Back to the debate

[luress]

I couldnt help my self after reading this little gem.Y ou say it is cheaper in the states and yes you are dead right , but that didnt keep the 4 lads employed I had in my tackle store.You would fall off your chair if you seen the margins I had to work with on big ticket items 5 - 15 %.But what I have also seen is the margin what the importers have on the same gear 85 - 100%.I used to get the customer bringing there recently bought shiny gold reel from the states in, because it had a niose in it , I used to think I like to stuff this fair up your butt ,but like good retailers we try our best to fix it for you.So please fellas give us a chance to compete because bass pro doesnt employ any aussies.If you need to know about my shop manner ask ALNFI he was one off my customers now we are good friends
regards gary
x 7 to 7 bait & tackle :)

[ShaneJ]

Oh man. A forum wouldn't be a forum without the kids personally attacking others ::)

[SundownMarine]

This is the information we have gathered from NARO(Northern Australian Regional Office),this is the office who enforces the rules of the ACMA.


Through various communications we have established these facts.
For those who would like to check the information.

NARO.

424 Upper Roma Street Brisbane.
PO Box 288 Red Hill QLD 4059
ph # 1300 850 115
email naro@acma.gov.au


VHF.
Under NO circumstances at all can a non C-Tick Approved VHF radio be used in Australia,this includes one offs.This is due to the safety of life issue to take into account when using VHF.

GPS.
One off GPS can be used in Australia as long as the importer is using it for private use.
Once that unit is sold,given away or passed onto the next person the importer then becomes the supplier and it MUST be C-Tick approved for legal use.The responsibility rests with the supplier here hence once the goods are passed on the importer becomes the supplier and the laws regarding C-Tick approval apply,it is then the supplier who is liable if things go wrong(ex importer) and not the customer (end user).

Sounders.
Same as above.

Insurance,
The law in Australia states insurance companies must take C-Tick into account and this happens more often than not.We have heard from here of one Insurance company that does not and we have heard of one company that made their customer that imported lots of Furuno equipment get it C-Tick approved and that cost him almost as much as the goods in the first place.

GST,

A hint to all.DO NOT #brag about saving GST here,tax evasion is a jailable offence and lots of people are watching.


These are the rules that apply,no ifs,butts or mabeys.

NARO are in the same boat as the rest of us and are trying to keep up with the state of play regarding imports and some misinformation has been passed around,these facts have been triple checked with NARO.

Throughout this process we have learned as much as anyone on this subject.Golden rule is research what rules you may be breaking before acting.


Sundown Marine.

[revs57]

Nicely put to bed!

[Heath]

Great reply Sundown Marine.
It is a worry that a Compliance Officer for the ACMA could get it so wrong ( seemingly )

I've forwarded my email from the compliance officer to the NARO for investigation.
See what they come back with.

[seatime]

sorry if this has been flogged to death but i'm still a bit confused about the c-tick approval sundown mentions. my understanding was if the item is purchased over the internet it will arrive in oz via a mail service and automatically be subject to customs entry reqs and hence be c-ticked. if the item is under $1000 value it comes straight thru, if over duty and gst apply, so any vhf regardless of value, or gps or sounder, if it comes thru the mail it will have c-tick for insurance cover. if this is incorrect please illuminate?.

[seatime]

9 hours and no reply from sundown marine. lets face facts , they are a in business and need coin to live just like the rest of us.
they advertise on this site to drum up business.
it would not be easy to cop all the criticism that they get on this site, but business is business.
sundown marine is just one of many who look to extract the hard earned, that's their business, they are not out to be anybody's best friend.
no different to any other money making enterprise.
great, they have discounts for members, whoopee, crazy if they don,t as they advertise on this site.
i do think they have constructed the wording in their posts to make anyone who hasn't bought electronics from them think they are breaking the law or unaustralian or something, i don't know what.
my point is, believe only what u have determined to be fact, retailers are in the business of taking money out of your pocket, not holding your hand or spoon feeding u din dins.
i always shop around and research purchases thoroughly, some stuff i've bought locally, some overseas, never had a problem with either service, warranty etc and i mean big expensive stuff too.
sure there is the warranty thing, but how often do they break in the warranty period, after warranty ur on ur own anyway.
what are they worried about anyway they sell boats don't they, not just electronics. i will be interested to see if they reply, though i believe they are digging a deep hole for themselves if they continue to criticise members who buy online or os. regards steve

[ShaneJ]

Whos criticising who? Do you think Sundown Marine employs someone to sit at a computer all day and monitor this site just to reply to these stupid posts? I doubt it!
If people here think they can get gear from OS for less than half the local RRP, then good for them. It would just be nice if they kept their dreams to them selves, as anyone who really shops around would know, this is complete rubbish!

[seatime]

shane,
it is only my opinion, never said otherwise. i'm entilted to mine just as u r to yours, isn't that what forums are about? wouldn't it be boring if everyone agrees.
i will try in future to not be so scathing in my attacks on businesses with 7 figure turnovers, i wasn't singling out sm (they just happen to advertise here), but there does seem to be a huge unaccounted for price difference out there. i think its wonderful they reply to posts at all, but if they want to be a part of forums they have to accept it warts and all. don't want to offend, just voice an opinion. steve

[ShaneJ]

I find it very offensive that people are trying to make out that myself and others that buy locally are being ripped off.
I also find it very offensive that people with no clue are saying that retailers are making massive figures on the gear they are selling. I have an account with GME and I can tell you right now that the retailers(all around my area at least) are not making much at all on the electronics they are selling. And as posted above these retailers have this gear on display for you to go in a screw around with. They also employ people to help give you information on the gear they are selling and alos help advise what is best for you. And then they also backup the product when you have some trouble, and I dont mean in case of failure, I mean when you dont know how to do something.
If these retailers were only selling elctronics at the price they so, their doors wouldnt be open very long!
I think you guys should be questioning our government reguarding import taxes and all the other rubbish that goes with.

I also have to wonder why you guys(the ones putting down Sundown Marine) even bother coming to this forum. These advertisers/sponsers are the ones fitting the bill for the operation of these forums. Without them there would be no forums, do you guys not understand this?

[revs57]

Shane you're a champ...well done...good stuff!!! Maybe we should start a debate thread about Aussies supporting Aussie Businesses...not!!!

Sorry gelsec, and no offence intended, but you're right...this issue has been done to death IMO and I think Sundown have proved they're not dodging anything having given a definitive and authoritative clear reply...I'd suggest a PM to them if you want more info rather than defaming them by posting unnecessary speculations questioning their integrity. I don't see they've critisised anyone who does not buy locally anywhere in their posts - they have simply given good solid advice and underscored the legalities and issues concerned for punters playing with importing :D.

Cheers

Rhys

[SundownMarine]

Gelsec,

Shane was on the money.On some days we don't have the time to respond to everything on this board , we get busy.

What we will say on your query is this.

The reason we posted the NARO details is so that everyone including you can contact them direct and find out the information you need.
We have posted every bit of information we have on this post and are now done on this subject.We posted the information we have and nothing else.

Please give us a call or do what we did and contact the ACMA/NARO for further information.


Sundown Marine.

[whiteman]

Just wait until the $A drops through the floor and local retailers will claw back a lot of the "direct" overseas business. I used to import software from a US company and they tried to force me to sell locally at $US prices when the exchange rate was $2:$1 in their favour! They simply didn't understand value for money outside of their country. I tried negotiating based upon $BigMac comparisons and it took me nearly 12 months to get them to see some sort of reason.

I think you'll find the large companies set the regional pricing and the local buyer wears this. If it was easy to go to the US and buy a couple of thousand Lowrance units at $US wholesale prices and ship them to Oz, then slap on a 20% margin and make a KILLING, someone would have done it!

[Heath]

Now it gets interesting!

I fired off an email to naro@acma.gov.au in regards to the info Sundown Marine was supplied by the NARO office. `Below is the email I sent.


Hello,

I recently was given the below information regarding the one off importing of a VHF marine radio for personal use by one of your compliance officers below. I have since been advised that an enquiry with NARO in regards to a similar matter was contradictory to the information I was given below.

Just wondering if someone in your office/department might be able to shed some light on the matter.

Looking forward to your reply.

Regards
Heath



Now this was their reply.


Hello Heath



I answered the question you sent to comply.label@acma.gov.au on the 24 November 2005.



I am gathering some additional information regarding your inquiry. As soon as I have this information I will forward it to you



Regards



Joanne van Uden

Compliance Officer

Australian Communications and Media Authority



And today I recieved this. I have highlighted the important bit oin my mind.


Hello Heath



There are several points that could be taken into consideration in relation to your question.



Firstly, your original question involved the term supplier. This is a term defined in the Radiocommunications Act 1992 as supply - includes supply (including re-supply) by way of sale, exchange, lease, hire or hire-purchase. In reference to the C-Tick symbol, if a person or business were to supply a VHF marine radio to the Australian market they would be required to comply with the requirements of the Radiocommunications Act 1992 and other relevant legislation such as the Radiocommunications Devices (Compliance Labelling) Notice 2003. Your second email advised that the VHF marine radio you intend to import is for your own personal use, therefore in this circumstance you would be outside the scope of the C-Tick regulatory requirements.



Please note: Prior to a person or business applying a C-Tick label to a device they must hold appropriate documentation showing that the device complies with the relevant standard.





Additionally, In Australia, all radiocommunication transmitters must be covered by a licence. In regard to VHF marine radio a Class Licence allows a person to transmit on pre determined frequencies, with power limitations and with devices that meet Australian and New Zealand standards. If a VHF marine radio is found to be in use and it does not comply with the Class Licence the user may be in breach of sections of the Radiocommunications Act 1992.



You may wish to compare the specifications of the VHF marine radio you plan to import for your personal use with the requirements of the Class Licence, to ensure that it complies.



For your information I have included links to the legislation I have referred to.



Radiocommunications Act 1992

http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Management.nsf/current/bytitle/EB150FF6B5599FC2CA256F710006EFC3?OpenDocument&mostrecent=1



Radiocommunications Devices (Compliance Labelling) Notice 2003

http://www.acma.gov.au/ACMAINTER.4849984:STANDARD:372096609:pc=PC_2066



Marine Class Licence

http://www.acma.gov.au/ACMAINTER.131258:STANDARD:1846409302:pc=PC_301









I would also like to bring your attention to the requirement to hold a Marine Operator's VHF Certificate of Proficiency, to operate a VHF marine radio. Please refer to the following web site for additional information.

http://www.amcom.amc.edu.au/







Please contact me again if you require further clarification



Regards





Joanne van Uden

Compliance Officer

Australian Communications and Media Authority



Don't know who you were talking to at the NARO office Sundown Marine, but it certainly mustn't be the same person I am talking to, who is a Compliance Officer :-?

Thats thrown a cat amongst the pigeons hey!

[SundownMarine]

Heath,

Well that is just amazing!.

The VHF rules outlined in your return e-mail are exactly what the rules are for GPS/Sounders as advised to us but VHF is different,as advised to us.

We advise calling the NARO and speaking directly to the officers there to obtain the same information we did.

Sundown Marine

[Heath]

I intend to.
Who was it you were speaking to at NARO ?

[88fishframe]

I think we have lost the main point of this thread. Honestly, I can see the temptation of purchasing an item from overseas in order to save money out of our pockets. It's tough to make a quid. However, the Australian laws regarding tariffs and taxes are there to protect the best interests of Australians. We all work for an Australian or Australian based company - how would it effect your employment if the profit margins of your employer were greatly effected because the products or services they offer were being sourced by potential clients 'on the cheap' by non-legitimate means? If it were to effect you directly, as this situation does to businesses like Sundown Marine, then you would all look at it very differently.

[DR]

I think we have lost the main point of this thread. Honestly, I can see the temptation of purchasing an item from overseas in order to save money out of our pockets. It's tough to make a quid. However, the Australian laws regarding tariffs and taxes are there to protect the best interests of Australians. We all work for an Australian or Australian based company - how would it effect your employment if the profit margins of your employer were greatly effected because the products or services they offer were being sourced by potential clients 'on the cheap' by non-legitimate means? If it were to effect you directly, as this situation does to businesses like Sundown Marine, then you would all look at it very differently.




'on the cheap' by non-legitimate means? ???????????
there is nothing ' non-legitimate' about bringing in your own things from overseas.
i occasionally bring stuff in, i always price the local stuff first.
if you can believe the suppliers they are not making much out of these items, so it is the importer thats ripping us off.
eg i just received a garmin gps76 & mounting bracket. best Aus price i could find was $385 for gps $58 for bracket
total $443 got mine from US in a week $312 for both, to my door. of that AUD$37 was postage, makes actual cost of both items AUD$275. thats $131 i can spend on something else.
30% difference, both prices retail

[88fishframe]

DR, DR, DR : you are a worry. You obviously haven't been in business for yourself and tried to survive in a competitive environment. Truly, there is a bigger picture to all this and one that goes well beyond what is best for the individual and what is best for the Country. I bet you'd walk up to Dick Smith and shake his hand one day, and then purchase foreign vegemite at a 0.50c saving the next?

I am an ebayer with over 600 transactions and I stopped buying overseas items 18 months ago when I woke up to what was happening. As far as cost is concerned, until Australians work out that it is not viable to keep selling $1.00 worth of resources to China and then purchase the same amount back at $25.00 as processed product, then we will pay a premium for our goods. The answer is not to continue supporting these countries but to look after own own first.

As far as the savings you are making - the truth is that Customs hasn't been involved because too much comes in via Australia Post for Customs to deal with and if the item is falsely sent as 'GIFT', then ....???? In truth , you should have been paying additional fees in GST and Duties when the item hit the country and this goes for 2nd hand goods as well. If you don't believe me, then have your next item sent via FedEx. I have, and I paid. You wouldn't have saved anywhere near $131.00 and if you can't understand why we pay taxes then don't bother replying to my post. :)

[88fishframe]

DR, before you reply to my post, my Grandmother always told me not to talk politics or religion at social gatherings. I know you won't agree me but that is ok. After all, it's :)

[Heath]

I beleive the very link that started this post was to notify that couriers now work on the same limits as Auspost.

Is that not the case?

[88fishframe]

Heath you're right. Time for me to go fishing , better make sure the bungs are in this time.

[DR]

I don't buy on ebay, i buy from retail stores.
am in busines for myself & have been for close on 26 years...
my business has been made harder by the advent of computers so that anyone can buy a comp & a programme & set up as a signwriter, they turn out crap But know no different, they work for next to nothing & only survive for a year or two thereby making life difficult for everyone else, in the meantime you learn to be competitive to survive..it's just the way it is.
the world has become a very small place with the internet. all my stuff comes via usps, goes through customs, & comes in as a purchase all declared & above board.

i try & support the aust. bloke where i can, but why would i ( for instance) buy an upmarket rod blank for AUD$290 have to wait at least month for them to get their next shipment in when i can buy it for AUD$195 & have it in a week at my door(that was 18 months ago & could have changed)..every dollar adds up..

While everyone wants to earn as much as possible & do as little as possible to get it things will never change...
untill the law changes i will continue to shop where i get the best deal, whether here or overseas.

i am an athiest with little or no interest in politics, so at any social gathering i would probably just have a beer with you & talk about fishing..

adding my 2c worth on the vhf, i have also been in touch with the relevant authority & received basically the same answer as Heath. To me the way it reads is a grey area that is open to your own personal spin, mine is that as long as it complys with......If the unit was imported not for supply, but purely for your own personal use, this may circumvent the Radiocommunications Devices (Compliance Labelling) Notice 2003.

The "Radiocommunications (Maritime Ship Station - 27 MHz and VHF) Class Licence 2001" requires that devices operated under that class licence comply with any standard applicable to the device on it's compliance day. (Day it was imported) .... it is ok for personal use..

you can pick another section .....The problem however is that you could not legally operate the device in Australia. You would be in breach of sections 46 and 47 of the "Radiocommunications Act 1992"

so take your pick.except that the negative one is 1992 & the others are 2001 & 2003 which i would assume negate the earlier one ..but not being upon my legalese i don't really know, maybe someone can explain.

[bidkev]

I didn't buy into this thread 'cause I knew it would be fiercely debated and that although that can be good for the old grey matter, it can also be bad for the blood pressure. ;D

The sum total of the argument is that there are bound to be those who will want to look after their hard-earned bucks and will shop cheaply (wherever) as they will see the main issue being their immediate betterment and that of their family. There will be those who have a more holistic view and will consider how their livelihood (and the livelihood of others) is likely to be affected in the long term.

I have heard this debate many times in the past and the concluding argument from one side has always been, (in so many words) "if you can't compete, then don't lay your shit on me 'cause you can't run your business efficiently". From the other side it has always been along the lines, "You are not seeing the overall picture, support your local business, keep the bucks inside the country and safeguard jobs.

Well, I suppose it's down to your priorities and where they lie........short term........long term......how and who does my decision affect and do I really care anyway, as long as *I* benefit? Any number of factors can be calculated into why and how one arrives at a decision but in the main, I would think most people don't put *that* much thought into how their "buying/selling attitude" and their "responsibility" to the economy affects others. This doesn't just relate to buying electronics cheaply but to life in general (I think?) ;D

I'll just illustrate what was happening in the UK when I left. Mail Order had cornered the tackle market and the retailers were screaming. They threatened to remove their advertising from those mags that were also providing a service to mail order retailers, which in turn could only damage them further as they would have no "shop front" for their products. They were not "awake".

I knew one "ordinary" guy who simply hit on an idea. He would approach the major tackle suppliers/manufacturers and ask what kind of discounts they could offer on the sales of a certain (large) number of items. He would then negotiate a very short delivery time and then he would advertise these items in the fishing mags at minimum profit with 21 days delivery time and "be quick, limited stock". He worked from home and his garage was a goldmine.

His turnover became phenomenal as he was always careful to only advertise proven products such as ambassadeur 7 and 9000's and Abu Atlantic Rods. If he failed to obtain the required amount of orders on an item which entitled him to his huge discounts from the manufacturer, then he simply returned the buyer's money with the explanation that he couldn't' obtain the stocks at that time, but may in the future, and would they like to go on a waiting list for that item. As the discounted retail price was so great, many agreed, as they were only purchasing purely because it *was* so cheap and wouldn't otherwise have purchased. This then enabled him to wait till he had sufficient orders to obtain the discounts.

Now some may say this was entrepreneurial, others would say, dishonest. But he made a huge killing until such times as the tackle stores (which had always been one man businesses) got their act together, joined forces and used their combined purchasing power to obtain the same discounts as the mail order guys. They finally woke up but not before many had gone to the wall.

To me, despite whatever *you* may think of the situation, it only goes to prove that fierce competition inevitably benefits the consumer in the short term. The danger of this situation though is that the "major player" may eventually win through and become the "only* player who can then monopolise and charge exactly as he sees fit. The short term then pales into insignificance in comparison to how the long term can affect your life.

It's happening now and it's a creeping cancer that will eventually erode everything you thought was safe/precious. *Your* ability to choose how you spend your dollars and live your life. The world has become the world of monopolies and once they have total control then you just watch your cost of living and your "economic standing" erode.

Yes you can buy cheaply but do you know just who you are buying off? Are they part of a monopoly? Are they cheap because they are intent on strangling the opposition till eventually there won't be a small trader left in business? Will you still be alive when that day arrives and do you really care as long as your standard of living is "protected" now so bugger what that is doing to the future?

These and many other questions *may* be answered at your friendly, local fishing site ;D

kev...............just thinking out loud and wondering, "Does it really matter? I may get hit by a truck tomorrow" but then again, what legacy does that leave for our kids if we *all* thought like that? :-/

[FNQCairns]

I feel for the retailer today in Australia to some degree but understand every single retailer would double their profit on each unit tomorrow if upstream the price plummeted and they could get away with it.

The system was not designed for the consumer to save money it was designed for the businesses to make the most money it possibly can.

I have it on very good authority that the outrageous cost of most US goods in Australia is due to the non-refundable/nontransferable single usage charge imposed on the 24carat gold containers used excursively in shipping to Australia.

What you ask!? - Why are those identical US imported goods a few hundred percent cheaper to land in near Asia?.

Mate!.... because they don't use the 24 caret gold shipping containers!!! ;D ;D


There you go it's as clear as mud to me!


I understand....a person can buy an Australian made Commodore or Camry cheaper in the US than here......a person can buy NZ made electronics cheaper (much) if purchased from the US than over the counter here......a person can buy US made hydraulic boat steering for around the same price purchased here as from the US!!! MMmmm.... That begs the question how come gold shipping containers cannot be used to import boat hydraulic steering items? ::) ;D ;D

cheers fnq

PS. Sundown Marine happy to see you on the boards and touting for the benefit of both our members and yourself, you will receive here free! of any advanced consultant charges etc an unbiased insight into the workings of the average Australian fishing/boating consumer.

Use this wisely when offering information on why members should best buy retail from you/Australia compared to purchases ANYWHERE else because as opposed to a shopfloor sale members here have a habit of sticking around long after the cash register has stopped ringing.

[Jimo]

Think I'll just go fisning........................................... ...

[imported_admin]

Interesting reading.

What would happen if you imported electronics and fitted them to your own boat for personal use, then a few months later you sell the boat.

Would that then mean that the items must be C Tick approved.

And if you did not get them C Tick approved and the person that bought your boat had it insured and made an insurance claim. Then the insurance company did not pay up as there were non C Tick Approved items fitted to the boat.

Would this person then be able to make you pay?

[nonibbles]

And who is collecting the 20 bucks worth and 2 bobs worth being touted here and there? I would like to put my hand up. There will be a transaction/handling fee as my safe is required to have a 24 carat gold lining which will be based on the current gold price at time of purchase. The safe will be made i a sweat shop somewhere in SE ASIA just so it is cheaper but as I will still have to pay all duties, taxes and fees your 20bucks worth and 2bobs worth will now cost you ###### (price removed in case some other global trader may be able to undercut me) ;D
Gee, that business didn't last long ;)

[Heath]

Interesting reading.

What would happen if you imported electronics and fitted them to your own boat for personal use, then a few months later you sell the boat.

Would that then mean that the items must be C Tick approved.

And if you did not get them C Tick approved and the person that bought your boat had it insured and made an insurance claim. Then the insurance company did not pay up as there were non C Tick Approved items fitted to the boat.

Would this person then be able to make you pay?



All depends on circumstance.
The cause of the accident must be attributed to the fact that the item was not C Ticked. Since the items comming into Australia are exactly the same as each other & are available locally then I reckon your chances of this happening is Nil.
I very much doubt that every single radio, GPS, Sounder etc is pulled out of the box & tested as it enter's the country.

[imported_admin]

Sounds simple Heath but insurance companies tend to check everything possible and if there is something that is not right it can give them reason not to pay. Even if it does not link to the cause of the accident. Might be interesting to have a chat to a few insurance companies about this one and get their written explanation on it just incase.