View Full Version : Recreational fishing management
06-12-2005, 08:32 PM
The Dept. of Primary Industry manages rec fishing – why?
DPI’s portfolio is primarily farmers and agriculture.
Why does recreational fishing – an industry that by the Government’s own admission generate millions in tourism, come under the Primary Industry portfolio?
Commercial fishing fits well under the DPI banner – but rec fishing?
Would we as rec anglers be better off managed by a tourist focused Government body?
This is not my idea – it #came about as the result of a discussion I had last week with Kevin Collins from the Fishing Party.
What do you think?
06-12-2005, 09:34 PM
Once upon atime there us to be a Dept of fisheries, but now everything come under the DPI Banner.
Being on the Crabmac Committee and knowing how Dpi works, you would have one in bucklies now of getting a seperate Dept just to look after Rec fishing, especially if DPI was still going to manage the Commerical sector.
06-12-2005, 11:02 PM
maybe another govt department could make as big a hash of it as dpi&f. there is the argument of the devil u know?
rec fishing(and comm) crosses the borders of more than just dpi&f, there's also msq, marine park authorities, councils (boat ramps, jetties etc). it would be nice to have someone with an interest in this industry to regulate it, but these are gov departments and nothing is done at breakneck speed. maybe our grandchildren will see some improvements. might need a new autonomus body under the umbrella of the dpi&f minister to administer it.
good move putting this post up, this is how changes can be instigated. steve
07-12-2005, 12:15 AM
This is something I have been saying for years.
The DPI one day is discussing giving millions of dollars to cane farmers and the next talking about protecting the Great Barrier Reef by closing sections of it off to Rec Fishers. Yet the run off from cane farmers is causing more damage to the Reef than Rec Fishers.
So how can the one department represent both parties?
07-12-2005, 03:14 AM
they don't seem to be too good at looking after their responsibilities equally do they?
should they seperate commercial and recreational fishing?. common sense would say yes, but that is not always the path taken.
might have to plant the seed in an officials head, cause they like new ideas to be their own.
07-12-2005, 06:19 AM
I think the line of thought of fishing as a sport needs to be carefully considered, I feel if its seen and handled by a sporting body it will be easier for the greens to ban at least certain aspects of fishing. I have said before that I "hunt and gather" for food, release the small for another day, and also tag some to help with the development of the resource.
Now bite my head off, but its only my opinion
07-12-2005, 07:10 AM
once again i "believe" fishing isnt regarded as a sport by the Aus Government
flycasting is...but as i posted in another thread....fishing comes under recreational activities...buggered if i know how this works.
i certainly agree that it needs to get out of the DPI portfolio
to me Primary industry is something that should cover things that are made by man..."primary" as in first.
wild fish stocks are not created by man as such should have there own heading.
probably be attacked for having "two heads" but the Tasmanian Government has a sperate Dept... in so much as The Inland Fisheries Dept....which makes all the descions for the inland waters.
all funds gathered by licences etc got to that Dept and are redistributed to that specific area.
anyone would have to agree that Tassies trout fishery is world class.
why cant we have a Dept of Fisheries....as a stand alone body??
Have a look at the back page of "Fish" there is a list of all the department sections.
Look hard and you will see Rec fishing listed in the finest print - meaning it is not a department. not a sub department but a sub sub department.
I am trying to look into my crystal ball - but I dont think we need Rec fishing moved to Tourism. We need ALL fishing moved to Tourism. why?
1. The economic value of Rec Fishing is much higher - I analysed some FIRDC data and worked out the Rec Fishing community spends $65 per kg of fish caught.
2. can you imagine the fights between 2 departments of public servants ? nothing would happen and it would all bog down. This is not a guess - I have seen it happen.
I remain a bit less sceptical than Gary. There is already significant cross-over between departments like Fisheries and EPA and EPA/Tourism.
Our position is this.
Both at state & federal levels Fisheries/DPI treat fish stocks as a comercial resource to be managed and harvested for commercial return.
Both at state & federal levels fisheries/DPI ministers have senior advisors skilled in commercial fisheries management....niether have any advisors skilled in recreational fishing.
Recreational fishing is clearly a tourism driver and lifestyle issue and does not belong in DPI.
We have clear and distinct differences in regards management and preferred outcomes to commercial fisheries.
The representation of recreational fishing at a Government level, both state & federal, is imporant to us and while DPI/Fisheries continues to be dominated by commercial interests "we" will continue to get the blunt end of the stick.
It must be stated that TFPQ is NOT anti-commercial fishing.....we share many similar views and suffer many of the same problems...BUT!! on a number of issues..like inshore trawl, longlining of billfish, fish exports and catch quotas...we are polls apart.
We look....longingly!! to the Northern Territory experience where a Government has clearly recognised the enormous economic and social value of recreational fishing as proof positive that fish are worth more as a recreational resource and not a primary industry.
It will be a hobby horse of TFPQ during the next 2 years and likely to be a critical factor in preference negotiations in the lead-up to both state and federal elections.
07-12-2005, 10:32 AM
Logistics and costs would mean it isn't possible - simple as that.
You would have two different departments working on the same issues, legal sizes, catch limites, closed zones, etc and who does the research?
So the new dept would also have to employ scientists to monitor and understand stock trends. Do the dpi study tailor from a commercial perspective and the tourism dept now goes out and does data modelling on tailor for rec anglers? - I think not.
The idea does have immediate appeal but when you boil it down; the practicality means no-one would seriously consider it to the extent where you would be happy.
07-12-2005, 10:47 AM
Can anyone handle the portfolio properly ?
I think it is one of those areas that does not have it's own area to fall into , so they hand ball it to someone with a similar direction , being DPI
If looked upon as an industry , there is more money in it for the tourism side then the commercial side , so with that understanding , it does seem logical
But would Tourism be handling it properly ...doubt it ....can anyone handle it properly ...doubt that too ...its not the people who are handling it so much as the way they look at it.
I think fisherman will not be happy with the handling of it all unless there are some mighty big changes ..like taking it of a view of a recreational activity thats worth billions and stop looking at it as a commercial sector..regardless of who handles it
maybe under Sport and Rec - and not tourism? worth thinking about
07-12-2005, 02:03 PM
I don't see 'tourism' as really "recfishing" to the avg. mum or dad:-?
Whether it's called DPI or NFI doesn't really matter , IF there's nothing left to fish for.... :-X
Some species should be made "Rec-only" ,some species are dual-purpose
i.e. Recfishing & public-seafood-gathering 8-)
What you need, regardless of "who" ,is in power, is to have a "voice" to barter better deals for Recfishos.....
So vote for TFP (if in your area) ,and watch the fur fly :o
or let the lack of representation screw you ,in 101 different ways
plain 'n simple.....(& JMO)
TAC's for commercials ,bag & size limits for Recs ,whoever is "supposedly" speaking for you, whoever they are????
07-12-2005, 04:00 PM
Just have look at who's doing the job at the moment for QLD goverment what a joke Nuttall Gordon, [Hon]Minister for Primary Industries and Fisheries (Sandgate)( thats my opinion)
If we split the Fishing department like Bugman says You would have two different departments working on the same issues, legal sizes, catch limites, closed zones, etc and who does the research?
EG Like the Tangalooma wrecks they have about 13 different goverment bodies over it in less than forty years time going to be cover in sand (Moreton Island is growing a rate at 1m a year to the west )they all have to agree on getting it dregde before it happens what a joke
07-12-2005, 04:03 PM
Its totally impractical to have them seperated, do you have fisheries inspectors employed by one Dept for pro's and others employed by another Dept for rec fishing? I can't think of any significant example where the professional side of an industry is mamaged by a different department than the private/recreational side. Imagine if they were split for boating, main roads, it's crazy.
Just because its inefficent doesn't mean that it will become efficient under another structure. By the very nature of the beauracracy, all things are stuffed up equally. Health has a seperate department and look what happenned there. How about a dose of reality???
07-12-2005, 04:34 PM
some body has done a good job in the NT
somebody recognised the value of a fishery aimed at sustainability and use by the public sector.
even if this is a small step to creating a better outcome for the public then we should take note and look at the examples presented.
to suggest that a system doesnt work...or wont work because its flawed in the first place...is conceding that we as individuals make no matter when it comes to the outcome
its been said before...and should be said again
ONLY YOU can make the difference....so MAKE one if you belive the system is inaccurate...dont settle for what you get...scream..winge and moan until the system creates the enviroment YOU want
no point having an opinion if you wont stand by your own convictions and try to make a difference.....
call pollies names...have a go at Dept Heads...but if your going to do this..and do nothing..then your wasting your breath on a pointless exercise that achieves nothing other than to hear your own thoughts bounce around in thin air
get off your butt and contact your local memebr..your local Polly and DONT vote for them next time...became a Sports Body...not a group of people trying to change things by doing nothing other than winging to the wall.
maybe thats why fishing is no longer a sport....to make it a recreational pasttime makes it less important.
We as a fshing community should unite to form a solid and cohesive body that has the power to change things....
look at the shooting body in America...they can decide on who gets to be President for goodness sake.
we have for far too long let ourselves be pushed to were we are now...if you dont like it...tell the right ppl..or become the person YOU want to represent you in this
07-12-2005, 05:50 PM
Well we did have QFMA. History always repeats itself. In time we will have another QFMA again.
07-12-2005, 05:57 PM
Thumps is on the right track, don't just sit back and say it can't be done. >:( It can be bloody done, but only with numbers. To those that say the FO's will be divided........why?????? What ministry do our water police come under??????? Can't work for more than one minister...yeah right!!
Theres talk about size limits and bags, Can anyone show me where these are remotely connected to commercial fishos.???????????
We are nothing more than a recreational group of people that enjoy our past time and at times (especially for southerners) makes us tourists. We are no way involved in primary industry. Sit back and think about it, you can make a difference.
07-12-2005, 08:27 PM
If SOMEONE got off their butt...and lobbyed hard enough....got enough names..and had a Representative Body to present the RIGHT ideas...then the pollies WOULD have to take notice
how many "fishing chat comunities" discuss this issue..and do nothing!!
why cant we as a group of "9743 registered members." who take time to be interested enough...in our chosen recreation form a Lobby Group
some electorates dont even have this many voters
if ppl are so interested in this...then stand up...and be noticed
i am no Einstein in ALL fishing matters but i do know things arent right and need some direction...or our recreation will be lost in a very short time
I put my hand up....who will follow????
07-12-2005, 09:00 PM
I couldnt agree more Thumps,
I have in the passed been involved on a political level and fisherpeople are possible the one group that is so easy devided, catch and kill, catch and release ect.
A big move in the right direction may be to choose one small area that you can get 75% of fisher people to agree on and use that as your point to lobby on and bring the group together.
Another problem is only a very small dedicate group have energy to keep up the slog (and for those that have done it, well done, as it is a huge marathon)
so maybe while we as members keep posting our views there will be people reading those posts and just maybe, oneday
07-12-2005, 09:36 PM
It always amazed me that the word " Harvest " is used to describe what the Commercial Fishoes do. My understanding ( and now having discovered different ) was that one had to " sow " to " Reap " , which is another name for Harvest. So below is the meanings of Harvest.
The act or process of gathering a crop.
The crop that ripens or is gathered in a season.
The amount or measure of the crop gathered in a season.
The time or season of such gathering.
The result or consequence of an activity.
v. har·vest·ed, har·vest·ing, har·vests
To gather (a crop).
To take or kill (fish or deer, for example) for food, sport, or population control.
To extract from a culture or a living or recently deceased body, especially for transplantation: harvested bone marrow.
To gather a crop from.
To receive (the benefits or consequences of an action). See Synonyms at "/search?q=reap".
To gather a crop.
As what the solution is to your Question Dave ..... !!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know that in the DPI&F there is a " Recreational Fishing Unit ", but what powers or control that unit has is un-known to me.
I do know that the DPI&F have this vision, that if a resource if found, then we can make money from it, so Harvest it !
I can again acknowledge the efforts of the NT government is recognising the importance of a " lucrative " recreational fishing industry. As pointed out here many times, a commercial caught Barra gains x amount of $'s, and is lost. That same Barra can be caught many times over for an amount far exceeding the commercial rate, by the recreational angler.
08-12-2005, 03:05 AM
These days if you want to "manage" rec fishing in Qld, you talk to any department other than DPI. Ie, EPA, NPW, etc.
08-12-2005, 06:52 AM
"so maybe while we as members keep posting our views there will be people reading those posts and just maybe, oneday
one day what???
im sorry Blaze but whilst i see your point..and have witnessed it so often myself..and agree with what your saying
maybe one day what??
unless WE act...then who will benefit
noone ever got anywhere without stumbling a few times
and if all we are is a bunch of selfish people that use our sport to glorify our own achievements..regardless of the cost to our fish stocks....then we deserve all we get
and what we will get in the end...is nothing because WE...right now....didnt stand up and fight for it
"I can again acknowledge the efforts of the NT government is recognising the importance of a " lucrative " recreational fishing industry. As pointed out here many times, a commercial caught Barra gains x amount of $'s, and is lost. That same Barra can be caught many times over for an amount far exceeding the commercial rate, by the recreational angler.
is this our starting point???? is this what we want??....a unification of both saltwater and freshwater anglers, both catch and realease and catch and kill
Why can it be achieved there and not here????
who stood up and made the government change its ways in the first place??
the original question was WHO should be responsible for recreational fishing
the answer is simple...the ones that bl**dy use it.....US
are we such a group of apathetic boofheads that we cant agree to fix what we so desperatley want fixed??
or do we go the way of the polititians...and let infighting and snide remarks leave us as a voice in the dark...giving ourselves a pat on the back every time we do something good....and passing the buck everytime we are too afraid to answer to the real questions
yes lets fight on one issue....yes lets unite on one that we can almost agree on...and grow.. not stagnate and let the whole thing degrade till its not worth fighting for
and lament that we should have done better
apathy kills....and i for one dont want our resources and our recreation dead
how long since QLD won the State of Origin???.....do they give up????and have we all stopped watching because they havent won ???
apathy kills....and i for one dont want our resources and our recreation dead
08-12-2005, 07:14 AM
just as a side note
i see that on a few other topics...people are very quick to congratulate others that have achieved through adversity
they say ...how teary they get at those stories....how they get goose bumps over those stories.... how proud they are of others that do what some would call ordinary... because they have suffered some misfortunte in life.
what i say...is what we, as capable humans take for granted...those people dont...and they fight for what they want...and what they believe can be achieved...they fight because they believe it can be changed.
their not the ones that are disadvantaged....WE are because we take what we have for granted....we sit back and congratulate ourselves on being "normal"
i will not publicly congratulated these people that just do what WE all should do....i will not pat someone on the back for doing what WE could do...
i will be sad that we congratulate these people and dont see the real point....we are, and can be greater than what we are
but we choose not to be
until this changes....then we will lose our rights...and our recreation..and no dept will have any resistance from us
Then go for it. will YOU start up a branch of the Fishing Party in your arae? Email KC - you will get all the help you need, and have a real input into policy.
Work out what well thought out policies you want - and put them up.
Go for it! its the only option that will make a real difference
08-12-2005, 09:02 AM
and who will follow???
08-12-2005, 09:13 AM
now where is the support from those that seem to care...but would rather sit back and watch someone else do the work??
and would rather continue to let it slide?
item one.....barra as a rec species only in Qld
withhold ALL boat licence fees to the Government until we are heard..that should get there attention
08-12-2005, 09:23 AM
All commercial fisherman in Queensland are bound by the same size limitations as rec fisherman. One size fits all - no arguement.
08-12-2005, 09:37 AM
Thumps, I'm sure your heart is in the right place, but not sure about your head.
I have also been involved in political lobby groups, and I can tell you from hard experience that sending an email is a complete and utter waste of time.
This govenment ONLY RESONDS TO
1. Consistent and repeated adverse exposure on the front page of the papers and TV (see dolphin feeding issue where Beattie had to step in to sop his stupid Minister from taking legal action)
2. Enough people upset about it in a specific electorate to unseat the local member (economic issues like cane farming in Nth Qld)
3. Legislation forced on it from the Federal Govt
The rest of the time it WILL do what it damn well pleases, and we are NOT united, or vocal enough, or attractive enough to the media to have a chance.
But don't let me talk you out of it!!!!!! if you have so much spare time, send all the emails you want.
08-12-2005, 10:15 AM
the email was to the fishing party here in Qld
and my offer was to do what i can
maybe one man can make a difference
08-12-2005, 10:39 AM
Ya pushing sh*t up hill darl if ya don't have the backing of the numbers.....as great and relaxed as us Qld'er are, we are too relaxed when it comes to things being done for our benefit or for the benefit of the furture....good luck sweetheart, u have my support.
I will also try and help with the knowledge I gained through the shooting lobby/ gun reform.
08-12-2005, 12:58 PM
A while ago I joined the Fishing Party.
If we wish to put up an adequate fight against the Anti-Fishing groups I would like to suggest to others that perhaps it is in their best interests, and the best interests of our chosen sport to also join.
08-12-2005, 01:51 PM
Politicians in government are surprisingly motivated by "one on one" conversations. If you can get some time with your local representitive, who is hopefully in government, and express your concerns in "sound bites" you may have more influence than you think. You could go to the opposition or an independent and you will get their time but they will probably use your cause for their benefit and as usual in politics, each side slags off at the other party's stance regardless of merit, your cause will be lost.
I'm suggesting you make an appointment with your local rep - it's easier than you think - or go to one of their many "openings" and cuddle up to them with a cup of tea.
Only if you can be bothered, of course.
your first email got deleted because it looked like spam. I have just responded to your second one.
This organisation can and is making an impact...albeit a small one and as it grows we will make more impact.
We currently have solid representation in the North and now branches on Bribie and Hervey Bay....interest in the SE is growing as the issues like area closures are starting to impact.
Have a good look over the web site and we can communicate more in the next few days.
Apathy is our main enemy, but, bit by bit, a few people are putting their hands up to do some work and it is paying dividends.
09-12-2005, 10:56 PM
I think many of you know that I am a former Public Servant of 30 odd years. The Department of Corrective Services that I worked for was attached to a number of different Ministerial Portfolios with dozens of different Ministers however the public servants running the Department never changed. In fact at one time we were under the Minister for Tourism, Welfare and Sport.
What I am saying is that even if Recreational Fishing was attached to another portfolio such as Tourism with a different Minister, the current public servants would go with that Department to the new portfolio and you would still have the same people running it.
In that scenario, nothing other than a new name would be likely to change.
What, in my opinion, is needed is a strong medium such as The Fishing Party, supported by each and everyone of us to tackle the issues we think are important to recreational fishing.
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