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View Full Version : Seaway cruise terminal a dead duck



gogecko
15-09-2005, 09:08 AM
Interesting article in this weeks GC Sun newspaper.

It says marine experts have seen what happens when a 20kt wind catches a cruise liner bow and pushes it around. The bow ends up OVER the rocks, not just bumping into them. Since the possibility of 20 kts is there for 50-60% of the year, skipppers will not enter the port in such conditions. Even if the wind is low, they might not be able to leave the port on time if the wind gets up tomorrow. Skippers simply will not enter the port, for fear of danger. They also had concerns about depth.

The previous study was done by a shipping line, hardly independant. Im predicting that this might be the end of the matter. Peter Beattie might have to give up the plan.

A victory for commonsense?

gogecko
15-09-2005, 09:10 AM
I should add P&O will still be happy to enter the port.......

fish2eat
15-09-2005, 09:16 AM
The Pacific Sky would make great reef structure, and at no cost to the taxpayer

maztez
15-09-2005, 01:27 PM
just on the 92.5 news ...beaty govt have approved the terminal for the gc..will keep eye on the written word for confirmation.
cheers terry (maztez)

Bosunsmate
15-09-2005, 05:02 PM
Yep they also approved and gave a 2009 operational date for the one here in Townsville........

So what did premier pete win lotto or something.......

Nugget
15-09-2005, 05:06 PM
It has major support behind the scenes and I think will go ahead - unfortunately.

It has been said by some of the anti lobby groups that once in operation, there will be no fishing, no diving and no paddling across the Seaway.
I find that hard to believe - maybe there will be a closed period when the liners transit through - not sure at this stage.

Dave ><>

finding_time
15-09-2005, 05:09 PM
Yep they also approved and gave a 2009 operational date for the one here in Townsville........

So what did premier pete win lotto or something.......


Peter is playing a game called . .........



I'll talk about anything but HEALTH........... Please dont mention HEALTH >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

Burley_Boy
15-09-2005, 06:54 PM
I think commonsense will mean that no-one will paddle accross the Seaway when there is a liner in the way.
I really wonder what the real impact will be. Just like the scare campaigns run when they were preparing the greywater discharge in the Seaway its hard to figure out fact from fiction in this debate.

Change will occur but what effect that change has on what we do probably depends on how well we lobby.. or?? Bugger I don't know do I! :-/

wishey
15-09-2005, 07:53 PM
Hey Nugget
Looks like the Broadwater once again is going to be barstardized, all for the mighty dollar.
When Wavebreak Island was put in, it stuffed up one of the best big whiting banks I ever fished,I didnt even have to go up the Nerang at all back then, it also took quite a number of years for the bream to come through again as well.
When they dredged in front of the Sundale bridge (one of your favorite spots) it has never fished the same for Whiting, yes you can still get the odd one but the quality is poor.
If anyone doubts my observations, I have 30 years of Club results to back up what I am saying.
Now a Cruise Terminal, by news reports there going to dredge the guts out of the Seaway to 12 metres, under current new terrorist laws you wont be allowed within 50 metres of the berthed ship, and 30 metres with no ship there at all.
These new laws have almost Shut down the Brisbane River to rec fishing, so just imagine how it will be in a couple of years time down the Broadie.
There will have to be at least 1 or 2 tugs down there to berth the ship, imagine the dramas if the ship berths at night!!!
There is probably another 50 reasons why there should'nt be a Terminal in the Seaway, but in the long run money talks and bullshit walks, and we are just gunna have to bend over and take one for the team again.
I apologize for the bad language, but I am sick of seeing the Broadwater cut up like a piece of cake, the iceing is going to go off soon if we dont look after her now.

WOOF
15-09-2005, 08:18 PM
Wishey....couldnt agree more with what you said.
The Broadwater has been pooped on more than what I care to remember and the terminal will no doubt cause more grief for the locals that use the seaway.
I've paddled countless times across there to Sth Straddie so I could have a quiet surf with mates and not get annoyed by idiots on the main surf beaches who dont respect anything, nor anyone.
How do I get there now? Hmmm.... eventually the n/w side of Wave Break will silt up and reach the mainland.....I could walk.....then its a paddle from Wave Break.....!!! Bloody hell!!
And if you cant get near the seaway then how do you fish there?
The seaway has always been a bit ordinary in my view but this really takes the cake. Its so shallow now (I've rolled two yachts coming in after racing) that the amount of sand to take out of the area is almost bamboozles me. What is this going to do to the already fragile area? I shudder to think. Remember what the fishing used to be like at the banks near Paradise Point? Sov Islands wrecked that.
The govt should spend our dollars on something a little more precious....... and health does come to mind. Or free beer on Friday arvo's.
As Derryn Hinch would say...."Shame Beattie, Shame".

Remo
15-09-2005, 08:51 PM
So how do we stop it?? >:( >:( I know that I don't want it there.

It will spoil what we come to enjoy for every one

Nugget
16-09-2005, 08:11 AM
Appreciate your comments Wishey - nobody is more experienced as an angler in the Broadwater than you.
And you are right about the anti terrorist regs - I was hunted from the Brissy River again yesterday by a 7ft Neanderthal... with a badge.

Money definitely does talk its way around all obstacles - the surfers, divers, environmentalist and fishos don't want it but a few pollies do.

If you're after more info, check out:
http://www.gecko.org.au/Save_our_Spit.html
and
http://www.saveourspit.com/

Dave ><>

gogecko
16-09-2005, 11:50 AM
Gee you really have to be careful what you say in print dont you? Its so easy to get shot down in flames. One minute I say its not gunna happen, then within a few hours Beattie contradicts me. ooops.

Nevertheless, Im sticking with my prediction. If you have read the article in The Sun, you might agree.

Build it, and they will NOT come.

The skippers are gonna float outside the entrance, and say 'not today'. After a few cancelled dockings, the cruise companies will have no choice but to drop Southport as a destination.

Actually, I thought the idea of an offshore floating terminal had a lot of merit. Is there any reason why this wouldnt work?

Hoges
16-09-2005, 01:18 PM
Gee you really have to be careful what you say in print dont you? Its so easy to get shot down in flames. One minute I say its not gunna happen, then within a few hours Beattie contradicts me. ooops.

Nevertheless, Im sticking with my prediction. If you have read the article in The Sun, you might agree.

Build it, and they will NOT come.

The skippers are gonna float outside the entrance, and say 'not today'. After a few cancelled dockings, the cruise companies will have no choice but to drop Southport as a destination.

Actually, I thought the idea of an offshore floating terminal had a lot of merit. Is there any reason why this wouldnt work?

>:( Build it and they will definitely COME!

:-/ I would say if they build it they would have designed it in such a way that it would be accessable in all but extreme weather. Hate to think of the enviromental damage this could cause!

::) You would imagine that an offshore facility would not be viable from a financial point of view apart from still having weather concerns.

gogecko
16-09-2005, 02:23 PM
Fair call Hoges. If they design it properly it is possible. The article Im referring to assumes they will keep the Seaway as is. If they triple the width, triple the depth, increase the sand bypass system, then I suppose anythings possible.

Billo
16-09-2005, 04:02 PM
winds will make crap all difference !
I am in the shipping game, and i work for P & O ( nothing to do with cruise ships though - container ships only)
The guy who says 20 knott winds will make a difference on the decision is full of it ....thats what bow thrusters and tugs are for ....they move the boat into position and it gets tied off , not sure which century he was talking about there ....and sand build ups...... thats what pumping stations and dredgers are for .

Shipping and cruise industries have had much harder geographical areas to conquer then southport .

don't get me wrong , i think it is a sh!t house idea ....GC is overcowded enough as it is and the broadwater couldn't be under any more pressure ...but it seems money talks !

the amount opf money it will bring in is enourmous , and a high percentage of cruise goers would love the idea of stopping down there and having access to the nightlife / casino's / sea world etc etc ......Brisbane cruise terminal is nothing pretty , and this would boost the Brisbane - Fiji - Vanuatu circuit like you would not believe...would not surprise me if this is to open brisdsy river for commercial vessels only ( tankers / containers ) and move the passebger cruises down there on a more permanent basis !....i think there is buckleys this will be stopped.....but best of luck to anyone who tries

PinHead
16-09-2005, 05:35 PM
The govt has approved it pending an environmental study and also participation from private enterprise.
I have a funny feeling that it will not go ahead..the environmental study will stop it..I think Beattie has announced this to appease some and also change the centre of focus on his govt...as for the private investment in it..Multiplex is building the Brisbane terminal...not sure who else would be interested in this one.

Bosunsmate
16-09-2005, 06:57 PM
It will be devastating to see this go ahead, especially as there are other more appropriate solutions to the problem but, as Billo has said vessels of the sizes expected will not be concerned with a 20kt breeze, where this amount of income is concerned money talks, & when you have multinationals like Tabcorp, Jupiters, not to mention the accomodation chains as well as the local Chambers of Commerce along with the plethora of small businesses etc etc etc pushing the mighty $$$ benefits then the small folk such as us have little chance of getting in their way.

The conservation mobs lost the fight over Airley Beach (Mandalay Point), Port Hinchinbrook and Magnetic Island (Nelly Bay) developments to name just a few, over the years with very expensive and financially debilitating legal banter, sure they achieved some small changes but they were mostly conceded for political reasons.

I have great respect for anyone that believes strongly enough to fight for their beliefs and to stand up and be counted when the time comes, so many just spruke off and sit back saying they'll fight but they never show up for the fight.

May I suggest that a formal petition be generated for all members of this site to sign, the more names and signatures the better, it has been recently proven that Beattie is being persuaded by voter numbers at the moment by 7 News with their phone poll regarding the fuel pricing system in use by WA. Beattie refused to even consider it one day, the day after 7 ran the poll and they achieved a 96% Yes vote he changed his mind and said he would look at it, at least that s a start.

Duyz72
16-09-2005, 07:59 PM
Having grown up on the Gold Coast, I have seen it go from bad to worse. Although if you talk to any Coasties my Grandparents age you would know how bad it really is now. They used to troll for Golden T's up at Nerang, in the River. And here I was thinking that catching luderick at the end of Central St off the jetty was the 'good old days'.
A Cruise Terminal, bad idea, might as well build that Casino on Wave Break island they were putting forward years ago.

Billo
16-09-2005, 09:14 PM
i hate to put a dampner on it ....but how many petitions actually work .

for 1 the governments know any tom dick and harry will say NO if they have no financial benefit or don't like the idea ...but how many of those people who sign these things are actually strongly against it and will go to the polls on it or make decisions influencing public agenda based on this approval !??? ...it really is a list of names who don't like it .....i bet if they did a list of who WANTS it , they would get just as big a list ....and again , money talks ...the people on the 'want ' list will be more known and powerfull people with more influence .

you gotta hit the root cause , don't petition the construction ...petition for a vote !
a petition that says ' We will throw the local government out of office if this goes through ' could be more effective ...gotta get personal .
Otherwise you need to hit the financial influences like boycotting casinos , sea world etc etc and send the petition to them so they feel more volitile over the plans...and you need to HIT THEM with a solid response on what your immediate actions will be.

attacking the principal WILL NOT WORK these days ....you need to influence those who have influence in the decision making processing and can weigh in !...otherwise hope for an environmental no go ...which i also doubt will happen , as environmental impact studies can be influenced also

keen_as_mustard
18-09-2005, 06:30 PM
this proposal is the wrost idea I have heard from a gc point of view - especially if you surf or fish. I am sure the area around the terminal will be out of bounds regardless of anti-terror laws or not.

the seaway offers such good fishing/diving for the locals - what will the cruise terminal offer locals - another man made eyesore I guess?

I too believe this is a done deal and public pressure won't stop it - the qld govt doesn't seem to listen to gc locals at the moment...don't even get me started on beattie's response to removing shark nets!

Cloud_9
18-09-2005, 08:23 PM
this one of the times when the greens should do their job and block this .
the seaway is a breeding area for flathead and the resident tarpon and probably a few other species.
as a member of a club that was instrumental in getting the slot limit for the flathead this would be a dissaster for the future of the flathead breeding in the GC area.
Cloud 9

Burley_Boy
19-09-2005, 08:30 PM
I'm not 100% sure where I stand yet but I fully understand all concerns regarding detrimental change.
But the amount of rubbish that gets flouted to fight the proposal tends to make me anti the lobby groups.
Thanks Billo on pointing out the wind issue. This is pushed hard in the local paper with quotes saying 60% of the time the Seaway would be impassable due to winds over 20 knots! What rot! The BOM might have a Moreton Island to Coolangatta prognosis quoting 20+ knots for the day but we all know that if you're in by 11am you're fine. They quote antifouling and grey water as the issues, give me a break! Why hide the real concerns beneath the bunk!
The Gold Coast will continue growing whether we like it or not because its a fantastic place. Compared to large places of this planet this will continue to be a fantastic place even as it grows. Hopefully we can get this artificial reef to revive the area though.

PinHead
19-09-2005, 08:39 PM
what will happen to Wavebreak Island once the Seaway is dredged to 12 metres..there will be some good swells coming through there then

Hoges
20-09-2005, 10:44 AM
what will happen to Wavebreak Island once the Seaway is dredged to 12 metres..there will be some good swells coming through there then

::) Welcome to Wavebreak Wall! ::)

gogecko
20-09-2005, 01:50 PM
Yes, Ive been thinking about the wind and bowthrusters, and I now think you are right. Ships do get into and out of much more difficult ports in wind.

So why is this guy in the paper not aware of it all? He was only the head of the GC maratime association. Some of you may even know him. Now Im really confused.

Theres sure a lot of misinformation going around.

boatboy50
20-09-2005, 08:29 PM
Hey Guys,

Programs like a current affair and today tonight prove that if you want to, you can get a professional to say anything. Its called sensationalist marketing, and is very popular with such programs and papers.

I personally have lived in Brissie/Goldie all my life, and I believe this will be a good thing for the Goldie. I fully support it 100%.

There will be some impact, but I don't believe it will be enough to warrant it not happening.

Previous projects have proved money talks, and regardless of how much greenies want it stopped, they are the minority (who in my opinion has too much pull!).

Yes, fishing and boating will be inpacted on the coast. Its fact. It has been impacted everywhere, and you can't say they are stuffing up the broadwater when all other areas have had an impact similar to the Gold Coast Seaway/Wavebreak. The fishing is simply not as good anywhere as it was in the old days, unless you hit the far outer reaches of Fraser Island, Cape York ect.

The Seaway project can't be blamed for the lack of fish, blame society in general, and the huge boost in population this region has encountered.

Remember, there is always two sides to every story!

Regards

Darren

Burley_Boy
20-09-2005, 09:13 PM
Spoke to Ian (the diving filming guy) tonight. And we quickly got onto this subject. From some of the "studies" it really sounds like the studies are purely there not to find any results but to appease groups and get results that you can refer to. I mean stuff like the models not having been supplied with relevant info so they base a major study on 1,4knot current in the seaway, same goes for winds and depth etc and how can a pollie say it will only get dredged once a year???? based on what? Thanks for your straightforward post Darren.

Anyway its sad that we waste money on studies that are totally irrelevant. Ian is pushing hard for the artificial reef and showing the value of the GC habitats (another video night on the GC Thursday night, all welcome but check the other post on the subject)

wishey
21-09-2005, 03:56 PM
Darren

For someone that says they have lived Bris/Goldie all there life, I don't think you fish to often down the Coast.

Yes I agree with you about the fishing is not as good as it used to be, but over the last 5 years down the Coast, the estuary fishing has been outstanding, Whiting, Bream, and Flathead, just to name a few species that have been prolific, you only have to look at the last Flathead classic held down the Coast to see how well the fishery is improving.

To say that dredging the seaway to 12 metres will not have an impact, is quite reckless.

When they put Wavebreak Is in and the Seaway, this was a huge impact, the place did come good for quite a number of years after this.

By no way I am a Greenie, just a dissapointed angler, common sense tells me there is only so much the place can handle.

This is just my opinion and what I have witnessed in the past, but I feel if this goes ahead, the place might not recover to the sub healthy state it is now.



#

boatboy50
21-09-2005, 07:26 PM
Hey Wishey,

At no stage did I say it wouldn't have an impact. It has to.

You are right, I don't do a great deal of fishing on the coast. It simply is not worth it for the small amount of precious spare time I have. I'd rather be heading elsewhere for my fishing expeditions. I do however boat and utilise the Broadwater very frequently for other purposes.

I simply feel the other benefits to the coast are far too good to knock it back.

Regards

Darren

wishey
22-09-2005, 06:55 PM
Hey Darren

So it doesnt matter what impacts the Terminal has on the Broadwater, the benefits will far out weigh the impacts.

So if the place dies in the arse after the Terminal is put in (fingers crossed it doesn't) Who is that going to benefit???

boatboy50
22-09-2005, 08:22 PM
Wishey,

Your reading too much into it.

I didn't say that, I said in it's current form I don't think the impact is more than the outcome.

I spent a long time in the hospitality industry in this region on the Broadwater, and I can see the benefits it will bring.

The post was originally based on what they were saying in the papers and current affairs.

My post was to point out there is two sides to every story.

Just my two bob's. It's fine if you don't agree. That's life.

Regards

Darren

wishey
23-09-2005, 07:30 PM
Darren,

Ok no worries, point taken.

I feel pretty strongly on this subject, I think we will agree to disagree.

Opinions are like noses, everybody has a different one.

Such is life

Copyarlater

Wishey

boatboy50
23-09-2005, 09:03 PM
Done!!

Burley_Boy
24-09-2005, 07:17 PM
I was at the Underwater footage night on Thursday with a bunch of other Ausfishers. Once again the first questions were grabbed by a few lobbyists pushing their views on the Cruise ship terminal. Totally the wrong forum if you ask me and they didn't collect any brownie points there.

I was blown away that for an organised group their only arguments were that the residents of main beach would be inconvenienced by conrete trucks and that there was a fear that the passengers would not buy any local meat pies so the local shops would loose their regular customers that visit the spit.
To be fair there were also concerns about the impact of dredging the seaway but this was the other two points raised. :P

I left the meeting and realized that the footage we had just seen of fantastic life in the seaway was all due to the man made structure and piping that was introduced some years ago. Like Wishey has pointed out it took many years for the waterway to recover after the massive changes of the seaway last time but today there is extensive marine life in the Seaway. The pipe is at about 13M in depth but to get it all to 12M will mean extensive dredging in the channel and I guess introduction of more wall and structure. Hopefully in the long term the area will recover once more. I wonder however if the population growth is not impacting the area more than a terminal ever will. :-/

StevenM
24-09-2005, 07:37 PM
B_B,

Was very surprised by the comments on the night, very shallow by the ones there. There has to be some way to save the marine life that is there.

A comment a few pages back also spoke about tugs positioning the boats against moring. On entering the brissy river I was quite surprised at the amount of turbulated muck that these tugs produce when pushing / positioning the vesel, it went for about 200 metres and was about 50 metres wide, the visibility would have been zero. You dont want such a thing happening in the sea way.

Cheers Steven

Derek_Bullock
03-01-2006, 08:32 PM
Maybe time to revisit this.


Derek

stevedemon
03-01-2006, 10:58 PM
Hi all this is the end of fishing at the Gold Coast if we think that shipping is going to stop because of 20kt winds we will be badly mistaken the only problem is that if they kept the terminals at Brisbane river there would be less damage on the enviroment as they will have to dedge the Seaway and surrounding area as well as extend the walls out either side this may with luck be to exspenive we can only hope but this will make the runnout to wild on big tides



Hi all
the irony of all this is in the governments (LETS LOOK AT BEING MORE ENVIRONMENTAL) the Beattie Government is looking at destroying the Gold Coast with its Shipping Terminal but i have not seen one person talking about this topic if this goes ahead we as fisher-person's will agian be held to boundaries within the coast but the other irony of this is that the Southern end of South Stradbroke island and Wave Break Island is already a National Park so please inform the public as to how, which and why the Government is going to build a Shipping terminal there does this now mean that the South Stradbroke island land is going to the highest bidder in the land developers or are they just Scr!wing us agian taking away from all the stuff-up this Government has had I think most fisher-person would like to know sorry guy's but I think that with all the conservationist and greenie's you would think they they would have had something to say on this matter destroying more Breeding grounds just for a few more dollars

Cheers
Steve
P.S placed this on all for people to reply I think we need to know

gif
04-01-2006, 02:31 PM
There is a public meeting - a show of people power in February

Some of those that will be there are a bit to Green to be my best friend - but "my enemys enemy is my friend"

In Victoria the Fishng Party lead a group of interst groups to try to save Port Phillip from a similar Dredging.

I wil get you all the date an details

Gary