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Derek_Bullock
01-04-2006, 08:38 AM
WHERE WILL YOUR VOTE BE GOING NEXT ELECTION

Moreton Bay recreational fishing ban part of Gaven green deal

Tuesday, 28 March 2006

Author/Owner: Mike Horan

Moreton Bay recreational fishing ban part of Gaven green deal

The Queensland Coalition fear recreational fishing will be banned in half of Moreton Bay under a secret pre-election preference deal between the Beattie Labor Government and the extreme Greens.

The Australian Marine Conservation Society has launched a campaign to have “at least 30 – 50% of Moreton Bay within reserves (protected areas closed to all extractive activities)” as part of the 10 year review of the marine park.

In State Parliament today, Shadow Fisheries Minister Mike Horan revealed recreational fishers feared the preference deal between Labor and the Greens in the Gaven by-election was based on the delivery of the Moreton Bay lock out.

“I have spoken to a number of recreational fishers and their representative groups who are gravely concerned about the possible rezoning of Moreton Bay,” Mr Horan said.

“The message I received is they support conservation measures in Moreton Bay but they are afraid the Beattie Labor Government will ban recreational fishing in half the bay, which will only increase pressure on the fishery in the areas that remain open.

“Locking up half of Moreton Bay would anger a lot of people, with a 2001 State Government recreational fishing survey finding there were 471,000 South-East Queenslanders, including 77,400 on the Gold Coast, who went fishing at least once a year.

“But the Beattie Labor Government has a track record in shutting down fishing in Moreton Bay, as demonstrated by bans introduced in four key areas in 2003, allegedly to protect grey nurse sharks.

“Fishers were prepared to accept additional restrictions on bottom fishing and night fishing to protect grey nurse sharks when and where they were most active, but the Beattie Labor Government decided to introduce a total ban, which was what the extreme Greens wanted.”

Mr Horan said the Beattie Labor Government was not interested in common sense conservation and was only interested in attracting Greens’ preferences at elections to ensure Labor won marginal seats.

“Farmers and timber workers have borne the brunt of Labor’s environmental extremism in the past but now it’s the mums, dads and kids who just want to go fishing or ride a horse who are getting hurt,” he said.

“The Coalition is committed to common sense conservation while Labor is only interested in pandering to the extreme Greens.”

kc
01-04-2006, 02:09 PM
Notice this release is dated the day after Mr Horan met with Shane from TFPQ South Brisbane. I have a meeting with Mr Horan on Tuesday 3rd to further appraise him of the issues facing rec fishing. At least someone is prepared to listen. Approaches by this party to Boyle and Mullherin have been given the brush and we have now written to Mr Beattie suggesting he may like to review his Governments attitude to fishing before he goes too far down the current path and leaves no room to talk preferences for the next election (in with TFPQ will stand a number of candidates in coastal marginsl)

KC

Barrymundi
01-04-2006, 03:36 PM
Did this make the newspaper in brisbane ?

Al

Derek_Bullock
02-04-2006, 09:26 AM
I think that the following shows that people of Queensland are sick and tired of the Beattie Government taking away from the people.

Time for the "Fishing Vote" to now consolidate for the next election.


Derek

Coalition win erodes Beattie dominance

From: The Sunday Mail (Qld) By Darrell Giles

April 02, 2006

THE Beattie Government has been handed another by-election defeat as the Coalition claimed a narrow victory in the Gold Coast seat of Gaven last night.

The Nationals' Alex Douglas had 41 per cent of the primary vote against 37 per cent for Labor's Phil Gray after counting ended at the 10 booths.
A swing of 7.5 per cent to the Coalition looked like giving them a 52-48 per cent margin on a two-party preferred basis.

The loss saw Premier Peter Beattie's team trimmed to 60 seats in the 89-seat Parliament, with the Nationals up to 16.

In his victory speech last night, Opposition Leader Lawrence Springborg said the result "sounds an ominous warning to the Beattie Government".

He said Gaven voters had rejected Labor and its "negative" campaign, opting for the Nerang-based doctor over Mr Gray, 58, a retired public servant.

Mr Springborg said it was the third Coalition by-election victory in less than a year and put it in a strong position with a state election due between February and May.
"It shows that if we work together strongly, we win together," he said of the newly-reformed Coalition partnership with the Liberal Party.

The victory for Dr Douglas, 47, ended internal rifts about the Liberals not getting to put up their candidate in what they considered party heartland.

Liberal leader Bob Quinn stood side by side with Mr Springborg to claim victory in front of more than 100 supporters.

"This is the third time the Coalition partners have gone to the people of Queensland and been resoundingly endorsed as a viable alternative government," Mr Quinn said.

"The people of Queensland are now looking to us in the run-up to the next election to provide the answers for them. We will not let them down."

Dr Douglas vowed to give the electorate a voice in State Parliament.

"They were put to sleep by an absentee member and a Government that forgot about them," he said.

Mr Beattie had continued to predict a loss yesterday.

Voters hit him hard in response to the on-going health crisis and the repeated absence from the electorate of former MP Robert Poole, who resigned while in Thailand awaiting knee surgery.

Mr Beattie blamed the loss on the ex-Member: "You don't win a by-election like this when you have the Member disappear to Thailand."

Mr Beattie also vowed to continue at the ALP helm, after also losing the Redcliffe and Chatsworth by-elections to the Liberals in August.

"I've made it clear I am here for the distance," he said.

Earlier in the day, he said a third loss would put pressure on his position as leader. "I'd be dishonest if I said otherwise," he said.

The Premier had initially tipped a 15-20 per cent swing to the Coalition after announcing the by-election last month, but had lowered that estimate to 10 per cent by yesterday.

He said the result was far better than he expected and predicted Labor would regain Gaven at the state election.

A staggering one in five voters did not turn out at the polls. About 3000 pre-poll and postal votes will be counted today -- but they will not be enough to change the verdict. The Coalition tipped it would get the majority of those votes.

ALP state secretary Milton Dick said the result was much closer than had been predicted.

"This is clearly a message to Labor and we will be redoubling our efforts on the Gold Coast," Mr Dick said.

"It is definitely a protest vote against Labor, but the votes have not gone to the Coalition."

Mr Dick said Independent Daren Riley (8.1 per cent) and the Greens' Glen Ryman (8 per cent) had profited from the protest vote.

Derek_Bullock
02-04-2006, 09:55 AM
Did this make the newspaper in brisbane ?

Al

Al

Not sure that it did get into the papers as I couldn't find it through the Internet. It was however on the Nationals Website.

Thats the problem with press releases, not all of them get picked up by the press. Have seen KC release some real important ones on behalf of the Fishing Party in the past yet they seem to fall of deaf ears. This was also is an important one.

Still the election results were positive.

Regards.


Derek

Gazza
02-04-2006, 10:59 AM
Labor has 60 seats....others 29 seats

So I don't think that Beattie is "really" crapping himself , now or at the next election....jmo

"It is definitely a protest vote against Labor, but the votes have not gone to the Coalition."

Mr Dick said Independent Daren Riley (8.1 per cent) and the Greens' Glen Ryman (8 per cent) had profited from the protest vote.
What (to me) is achievable ,is to have TFPQ ALSO gain 6~10% in the stats [smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=laola.gif]

BAIT_MAN
02-04-2006, 11:59 AM
What (to me) is achievable ,is to have TFPQ ALSO gain 6~10% in the stats #[smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=laola.gif]

Gazza

I think that it may be possiable to do that and wont Mr Beattie be a worried man then. Remember that Mr Beattie only has to lose 16 seats to lose power and that imo is a very real possibility.

DaveSue_Fishos_Two
02-04-2006, 09:24 PM
I think Premier Beattie is in for one hell of a fright at the next election.

His handling of the Qld Health crisis especially is not going to be easily forgotton by the Qld people, and, the fact that he publicly stated that Wendy Edmond was the 'best' health minister Qld had ever seen, yet, under her command, the system disintergrated (in my opinion).

The Coalition on the other hand have little to offer by way of policy as far as I can see. They have no 'fix QH' plan either.

Please don't get me wrong here, the fishing issues are tremendously important, but I personally believe it is 'Health' that will determine the results of the next election.

The Beattie govt is certainly quick to tow the 'Green' line, but as some may remember, the greatest environmental vandal in this states history led the Nats. Bjelke-Petersen, for 19 long years as Premier.

So what do WE do?? How can We make a difference? It seems that whichever party/s govern we are all going to suffer in one way or another right?? Yep!!!! I'd say so!
BUT.............we sure as hell can do something about registering a huge protest! We sure as hell can make BOTH sides sit up and squirm uncomfortably in their seats!! And we can certainly speak very, very loudly against policies which continually erode OUR sport, OUR pastime, OUR pleasure, and OUR future.

How????
Vote for The Fishing Party Qld. It's as simple as that.
Change the balances of the past.

It is highly unusual for me to enter public comment or debate on state or federal politics. It is also potentially dangerous for my career to do so. But I feel so strongly, so annoyed, irritated, pissed off, call it what you will, that I want to speak. I want to be heard.

I asked KC to forward me details on how to join TFPQ. He did and I am grateful for that. They will be completed and returned with my cheque for membership within the next few days.
I would strongly encourage others to do the same.

Phew!!! "I feel better now" !

Cheers
Dave

Derek_Bullock
02-04-2006, 09:34 PM
Click on the logo below to join The Fishing Party (Qld)





http://fishingparty.com.au/forums/templates/subSilver/images/logo_phpBB.gif (http://www.fishingparty.com.au/membership/)

PinHead
03-04-2006, 12:30 AM
Alas, I would not read too much into the results of the by election...it was a forgone conclusion. The sitting ALP member was always absent. by elections traditionally go against the sitting government. I also do not think Beattie will have too much trouble winning the next election albeit with a reduced majority..the opposition does not have a great deal to offer.

GARFISH
04-04-2006, 09:31 PM
I am interested in noticing how that the shadow minister is available and willing to listen.Could it be that as shadow minister he can not actually do anything. You will always get the attention of a shadow minister but do not think it will do any good if they become minister because then they will be like any other.

I have not seen anything meaningful come out of the TFPQ or any other political minority party. What is the TFPQ stance on job creation / economic management / health / education the things that really matter!! I just wish they would stop saying that they represent rec fisherman as they do not represent me as a rec fisherman they are representing the members of their party which unless they are this countries largest political party they would not even be representing a percentage of rec fisherman. In time they may well become a force to reckon with only time will tell.. I realise that these comments could well upset some members of this forum but this is just how I feel........

Ross

bugman
05-04-2006, 01:04 PM
I was also unaware of any Grey Nurse Protection Zones inside Moreton Bay - oh well it is politics and anything is fare cop.

We're around 3 years out from a federal election - who wants to lay money with me now that the Fishing Party vote will actually decrease in the next poll. Despite all the hard work a lot of people are doing on this. The backlash from the GBR was the onyl real vote catcher for them last time around - I can't see the momentum being maintained.

IMHO.

Brett

PinHead
05-04-2006, 01:22 PM
A couple of Questions for TFP:

1. Will TFP be contesting any seats in the next State election?
2. If so, what seats? (if they are not very marginal seats then I doubt TFP will stand much of a chance)
3. For the average voters, what do you expect will be of more importance:
a) Health
b) Fishing related issues
c) Continuity of power supply
d) Speed and reliability in the cleaning up after Larry
e) Law and Order

kc
05-04-2006, 04:22 PM
A few issues deal deal with here in 1 reply.

Firstly Garfishes point is very clearly correct. We do not speak on behalf of all rec fishers nor have we ever represented this position. What we do, do is represent the wishes of the 30,000 rec fishers who voted for us, in the political process. All submissions and all lobbying make this point. Our membership base is over 1000 but at the end of the day many more people will vote than actually join a political party. Lets face it, one of the reasons we enjoy fishing/outdoor recreation is to get away from %%$# like politics. Those involved are in this because we feel there is no other choice. He is also right that Shadow ministers are much easier to "get to" than sitting ministers....that said, 2 years ago we could not even get an appointment with the tea lady!! Things are changing.

Bretts point about being 3 years till the next election....actually it's 9 months till state and 18 months till federal...but, that's politics, makes the point that he expects our vote to actually go down.

That is possible but would be a great dissapointment and pity help the future of rec fishing if this political "experiment" fails...the ultra environmental movement would just LOVE that!!

Yes RAP and the GBR was a big issue in the north...bugger all people actually live up here. Moreton Bay and Hervey Bay will be just as big an issue in the SE and LOTS of fishos live down there.....we will also be better funded, better organised, have more branches AND at the next election we will be the "curiosity" party (just like Hetty Johnson was last time) and will get a lot more mainstream press.......

One thing no one on this forum witnessed was the absolute willingness of rec fishers to vote for us when actually talked to on polling day by booth workers. Despite our meager efforts, our recognition factor, even amongst fishers was almost zero.....but talk to them as booth workers and everything changed...typically a booth with no TFPQ presence we polled well under .05% and at booths with someone talking to voters we averaged 6.2%.......Brett, I'll bet you a packet of minties!!

Finally to Pinhead.....we don't want to run the country, we don't have any expertise on health, education or for that matter immigration, the war in Iraq or global finance...then again, neither do the greens. Our policy document actually spells this out. You may as well ask our policy on uranium mining on the moon....non issue!

Our "job" is to play the same political game the greens have been playing for 30 years and get Governments attention, get their ear and get some action by making fishing preferences more important than green preferences.

We have dogeared about 10 coastal marginals for the next state election, all seats which we could influence the outcome and in exchange for providing our preferences (which are far less effective than in federal elections) we would expect one of the majors to come up with a range of policies which favour rec fishing rather than favour the green lobby FOR A BLOODY CHANGE.

To hark back to Bretts comments, this is politics. Might not be right, but it just is.

In a "perfect world" politicians would listen to the voters and act in their best interests....well...quiet frankly, we tried that and it does not work.......for better or worse our political system is stacked in favour of minor party influence.maybe not on important issues like health, education and power supply but most certainly when it comes to seemingly trivial issues like recreational fishing.

In simple terms, all we are, is a bunch of fishos having a go. It would have been dead easy to just sit on our arses whinging about how unfair it all was and quitely get pissed while our boats went unused! Personally. Not our way. THis is still early days but if we go down I would rather it be swinging. TFPQ has had and will continue to have some really major wins. Over the next couple of weeks (all going well) you will see a major shift in a federal law relating to rec fishing. This will be a 100% TFPQ initiative which would never have happened without us. It can't be let out of the bag yet but for those who doubt political activism is the key to a fair go in the future you are about to see a glaring demonstation.

KC

PS " Greg.....you don't really think I would nominate which seats and give the game away so soon do you?? Tsk Tsk!!" ;)

PinHead
05-04-2006, 05:49 PM
LOL..come on Kev..which seats????

I believe having a crack at State Parliament is a different kettle of fish to Federal..no upper house and only 4 independents..the rest are from the 3 major parties...could be hard to crack into some of those seats...ever seen the layout of State Parliament?? Could be damn lonely sitting on those cross benches.

kc
05-04-2006, 10:11 PM
Greg you know how the system works just as well as I do. TFPQ will never win a state seat in the house of reps and there is no upper house in Qld. The best we can hope for in a state seat is to get enough votes to make our preferences tip the scale, one way or another. Have a look at the Qld electoral commission web site and see how many coastal seats (big fishing populations) are close marginals!! PLENTY and quite a few within 6%. TFPQ if it got a vote around 8%...possible...could influence more than 10 seats...just like the greens....as an example Gordon nuttal holds his seat with the help of a 13% green vote. No green preferences....no Nuttal. Now there is a nice thought :)

Federal senate is clearly a better option for us but most fisheries legislation is state based so we have to be active at a state level and at the end of the day, our aim is a fair go for rec fishing, nothing more.

Our next newsletter, which will be hard mailed to all members will outline our target seats and be asking for candidate nominations.

KC

bugman
06-04-2006, 11:14 AM
Kev,

I'll take you up on the minty offer ;)

Don't get me wrong Kev - I'm not belittling any of your efforts or that of your members. I just think last time around you had a big controversy to galvanise support which directly affected your vote numbers.

This time round you've got fishing death by a thousand cuts which doesn't really get people's attention. I also think there might be a few people out there who didn't agree with the preference deal struck and the resulting implications for the federal political arena. There's no judgement in that statement merely an observation because you had to make the political decisions which felt right for you at the time. Politically for the fishing party there's no doubt you went the right way because you've been able to leverage some support there. Like most situations though - not everyone will agree.

I know you can't give me an answer here but I'd be interested to know what you're thinking for yourself and the future of the Fishing Party if your vote at the next election halved and you now represented 15,000 fisherman. Is that enough ;)

Brett

kc
07-04-2006, 08:22 AM
Hi Brett, simple answer to if our vote reduced is NO that would not be enough and personally, I would give it away...not to say the party would fold but personally, if I thought for a second this was a waste of time, I have much better things to do.

Again, with the value of actually being at the coalface at polling booths I know fishos will vote for us if given the right information and opportunity.

On election eve I nominated 30,000 votes as a "pass mark" for the last election, just what we ended up with. Given what is happening and about to happen in the SE (where all the people live) plus some understanding of what our actual abilities and member base will be at the next election if I had to nominate a "pass mark" now it would be 50,000 as least.

What has not hit home in the SE is just what is around the corner with a sustained, well funded and emotive campaign by DEH and a number of green lobby groups to have recreational fishing deamonised and ultimately depopularised.......you got a tiny taste with the Grey Nurse Shark closures & ultimately you all swallowed your medicine and got on with life....the only effective reaction to this collective of anti fishing activists has been TFPQ. We are not the answer. What we are is the vehicle by which rec fishers can send a message that actually get heard. So the balls really in "your" court.

In essence last election we had a big controvery which effected about 200,000 rec fishers (20% of coastal population north of Bundaberg)...next time we have just as big an issue effecting 600,000 rec fishers (15% of SE corner population)..........to quote that awful Seppo line....you do the maths!!

As to the preference deal you are dead right. We took the best option for rec fishing, not any ideological position. If Labor hangs up in our ear and the Nats promise (& deliver) on some very seriuos issues then we really have no choice. Just like the post that started this thread. Labor at a state level are ignoring us and the nats are listening. I have written to Peter Beattie again making this point....so far no response.

It may just be that Labor only want to take their advice from Sunfish on rec fishing matters and their political preference dealings are done with the Greens.....that is their right but also at their peril. Sunfish have been at this game a lot longer than we have and are better connected, better funded and better at it. That said the state of play, Australia wide, is where we have come to with all the efforts of the variuos rec fishing peak bodies and lobby groups, all of which maintain an "apolitical" stance :(.

IMHO "apolitical" is the kiss of death....the environmental lobby learnt a long time ago that the main game is politics, TFPQ is an experiment in the same game and if we are successful, everything changes. If we are not :( :( :(

KC

seatime
09-04-2006, 01:28 PM
Hope you've got Cleveland on the marginal target seats list. With Darryl Briskey retiring it could be up for grabs. The Libs/coalition candidate is a boat builder by trade from Sawtell originally. He comes across well and is quite approachable. regards

hicksy
13-04-2006, 04:57 PM
KC,
At the last election didn't you give your preferences to the coalition.
If that is the case most recreational fisherman can't vote for you.

If you give your preferences this time round to the coalition you wont have to worry about going fishing. Or haven't you heard of the new workchoices legislation. No recreational fisherman will have time nor the money to go fishing.

Elections are serious business. Forming a political party as you have done is one way of being heard. But by continually chopping and changing the major political parties you support, will give your party no political credibility at all.

I agree with others whilst you should continue to maintain your focus on recreational fishing don't forget about the other big ticket items.

Also remember the Nationals and Liberals can you give you as much lip service as they like but next time you meet with them, ask them if they support workchoices. If the answer is yes maybe you might want to consider where your preferences go next time.

TO FIND OUT MORE VISIT: www.rightsatwork.com.au

Hicksy

PinHead
13-04-2006, 06:03 PM
hicksy...what does the IR legislation have to do with TFP? Seems like you might be drawing a rather long bow on this one. Wasn't the IR laws mooted prior to the previous election??

hicksy
13-04-2006, 08:12 PM
Pinhead,
The new IR laws have everything to do with this.
If workers are required to sign off on AWA's which reduce their earning capacities and increase their hours of work then there will be less money to spend on fishing and less time to do it in.
You only have to see what some of the leading economists and industrial relations experts are saying about this. There is plenty of info on this on the web.
If people don't think they are going to be effected by these laws, think again. You only have to look at what happened in England, New Zealand and America with their labour laws.
Hicksy

kc
13-04-2006, 09:15 PM
Hi Hicksy,

For once Greg & I agree. It's a pretty long bow to draw. the 30,000 votes we got did not win the conservatives Government, the 10 million votes did!!

Our policy platform is pretty simple and spelled out long before we did any preference deals. We would support the duely elected government of the day on all matters outside our areas of expertise....did not matter who won. Our only area of input would be rec fishing related.

I know lots of TFPQ voters and supporters have trouble with the concept of preferencing the Nats....deep down so do I, BUT it was never a choice between Nats and Labor. It was ultimately a choice between Nats and Greens. Nats promised and delivered and are still delivering on key rec fishing reforms. Labor (at a state level) are still kicking the %^$# out of us, (due to deals done with the greens.)

Personally, and even as an employer, I feel greatly uneasy at the IR laws, but, if you have to point the finger, do it at the 10 million people who voted for Howard over Latham, not at TFPQ who are only trying to even up the imbalanance of the green influence on political decision making.

It is clear you have come into this process pretty late in the piece and with a single agenda.

I would suggest you do a bit of homework before you bag us. Typically, Labor attacks us, even now, and in doing so keep shooting off their own foot. If they listened for a change rather than being blinded by the green "ink" in their eyes they might realise we are not the enemy.

Labor has forgotten its roots, just as the Transport Workers Union reminded Beasley in Canberra recently. About time they started doing what they are supposed to do and represent "US".

In short Hicksy, we are not the problem, we are the messenger.

We Fish, We Vote & We matter & there are thousands and thousands of us!!

We also know elections are a serious business. We have not "chopped and changed", in fact we have only stood at one election and the results are on the boards for all to see.

We also take a view that an ideological mindset to favour one party, regardless of policies, is a stupid and narrow minded mistake. Our aim in life is to make the "fishing vote" more politically important than the "green vote" & if we do that, everything changes. We don't care who recognises this first, as long as both the buggers do eventually.

Issues like "work choices" are not for us to decide. That is for the Australian voting public to decide. Our job is pretty simple. Make the fishing vote more politically "valuable" than the green vote. End of story!

KC

hicksy
13-04-2006, 09:57 PM
"I would suggest you do a bit of homework before you bag us."

KC,


I don't think in any of my posts I have bagged TFPQ. Just adding another dimension to the post.

Surely you must realise to secure more votes you have to have more then just one policy. Even the greens have more then one policy!

To have strongly held views and to form a political party to advance those views is admirable. But to advance your cause you need to try and attract more voters. I personally don't think any political party can do that on one issue alone.


More votes for TFPQ are required if the major political parties are going to sit up and start taking notice, therefore issues like workchoices and others are important to the electorate and if someone was sympathetic towards TFPQ other policies or statements on issues other then fishing may just sway them to vote your way.

Hicksy

banshee
13-04-2006, 10:59 PM
Weren't you blokes cock a hoop about TFPQ preferences geting Barnaby Joyce over the line in the last election thus ensuring that the coalition had control of the senate and wasn't it his vote that ensured the IR laws passed through the senate unchanged and unopposed?I'm afraid it would be a cold day in hell before I gave my vote to a defacto lib.

PinHead
14-04-2006, 05:28 AM
Pinhead,
The new IR laws have everything to do with this.
If workers are required to sign off on AWA's which reduce their earning capacities and increase their hours of work then there will be less money to spend on fishing and less time to do it in.
You only have to see what some of the leading economists and industrial relations experts are saying about this. There is plenty of info on this on the web.
If people don't think they are going to be effected by these laws, think again. You only have to look at what happened in England, New Zealand and America with their labour laws.
Hicksy

Granted, there will be a very small minority of unscrupulous employers, however, the majority value a good employee. They are the people that make them money and keep them in business. They are not going to sack these people. The ones that do get the sack or on poor wages are more than likely the lazy buggers that have been hiding behind the unions' apron for many years and now it is time for a reality check. Have a good think about why there is little manufacturing industry in this country...try some of the conditions eg holiday loading..must be the only country on the planet that pays you more to be on holidays than at work. As for some of the construction industry EBA's...they are just ludicrous.

PinHead
14-04-2006, 05:30 AM
should TFP give preference to Labor...then they would be responsible for policies that Labor introduce that are not popular...ALL govts get in on preferences from the minor parties..that is how our system works...first past the post is not an option and this is about the best alternative.

Anyway...off my soap box and off for the weekend...have a great Easter all.

hicksy
14-04-2006, 07:24 AM
Pinhead,
We are probably moving away from the main focus of the post. But always keen to engage in such a debate.

You are right there are good employers out there but these new laws tip the balance of power in a ridiculous way in favour of employers.

Time to take the blinkers off pinhead just have a look at A current Affair or Today tonight and you will witness the sackings that have taken place since March 27. Not all have been union members.

Ask the cowra meat workers who were sacked and offered their jobs back at 25% less. Only when enough pressure was placed on the Federal govt did they ask the employer to fix it.

These laws are bad news for all Australians employees & employers. These will affect the majority of recreational fisherman. Not if but when.

I won't even touch your comments about leave loading except to say doesn't the tourist industry have a peak and off peak periods.

I as many other construction workers would be apalled at your last comments. Hard fought conditions like those aren't ludicrous. The statistics show you are 4 times more likely to be involved in a serious/fatal accident on a construction site then you are on the roads. It is not the easiest industry in the world.

Maybe that is just a bit of jealousy creeping in?

kc
17-04-2006, 05:17 PM
Hicksy,

I understand your concerns and also your ideological position BUT you miss the point!

We are not interested in widening our policy base (available on www.fishingparty.com.au) because we are a single issue party, not an alternative Government.
Our only aim is to make the fishing vote a political asset to the major parties, rather than the current situation where both sides court the green preferences and do deals which are ultimately to the detriment of recreational fishing...if you doubt that read the "political deals" paper presented as part of our review into GBRMPA, also on our web site.

Let me make it clear again.

Our 30,000 votes did not elect Howard...the majority of Australians elected Howard.

Our 30,000 votes did get Barnaby Joyce elected INSTEAD OF Drew Hutton and as a consequence Bob Brown was no longer in a balance of power position. If he had been and Howard REALLY wanted to pass the IR legislation I wonder what piece of silver Brown would have accepted in return for his support....The Animal Rights Bill 2005 maybe??

Here's one I hate...GST....what a &^%$ -up! Did I vote for Howard at that election NO...but most people did......BUT did Howard control the senate?? NO...Meg Lees and the greens did.....what "pieces of silver" did Meg Lees sell out for?? RAP on the GBR for one and the "National Oceans Policy" for another...the linchpin of all the marine park closures Australia wide.

You also make the comment that "more votes are needed before the major parties sit up and take notice"...again Hicksy, you miss the point....they already are....

No party, be that greens, nats or anyone is likely to win the "last" senate spot in Qld at the next election without the TFPQ preferences....get your head around that for a minute. Anyone who wants the "spot" has to negotiate with TFPQ to get it and it will not be given without announced policies which will benifit recreational fishing.

Like I said, and I am an employer, I am personally uncomfortable with the IR laws. That said they are adressing some terrible imbalance the other way which has caused employers seriuos grief for many years. I share Gregs view. As an employer, I actually like my staff, would not have a business without them and most have been with me for a couple of years.
For those few who abuse the new laws many others of us will use the "upside" to employ more staff on "spec" and negotiate one on one for the best outcomes rather than the previuos system.

While this whole thread has grown legs and run off at a tangent somewhat from the original intent it is none the less really important that the issue of preference arrangements be aired.

In essence as part of the preference negotiations we had

Labor...would not talk to us. Would not return calls. Did deals with the greens which were seriuosly anti fishing & preferenced the greens expecting them to win the last senate seat in Qld. (so Labor votes became green votes)i.e if TFPQ had preferenced Labor our votes would have ended up with the greens.

Libs....would not talk to us. Responsible for RAP and nationals oceans policy.

Nats.....jumped on a plane same day. Agreed to a number of policy requests (all delivered). Offered an effective condute to Government (delivered) and ultimatley the only decent "deal" we could get in exchange for our totaly unknown number of votes.

This is one of the reasons we are single issue. Nothing to cloud our judgement, not IR, the war in Iraq or global finance...just what matters to rec fishing.

So Hicksy.....which way would you have jumped if your guiding principles were 100% rec fishing focused and not clouded (or allowed to be clouded) by outside influences?

Next time around when we ring Labor, at least they won't be hanging up in our ear....that is..unless the greens tell them too!

One thing which we have learned over the last 2 years is that this is not a game and we can actually influence Government policy. We take that role very seriuosly but do so from a single issue perspective. It is our weakness but also our strenght.

The senate vote could have changed things in any other state. That Barnaby got elected on our vote was a fluke, not an intent and regardless of his performance and regadless of what laws Howard passes our goal is a better deal for rec fishing, not control of things we know nothing about. We have not stuck our head in over IR, Telstra or the war...none of our business, but we have stuck our head in over GBR review, fisheries issues, national oceans policy and structural adjustment packages for rec fishing businesses, GSS rezoning, reef pontoons, cruise liner anchorages and other rec fishing issues..WITH GREAT SUCCESS.

As I said before Hicksy. We are not the problem here, we are just the messanger. If politicians did what they were suppossed to do, look after the wishes of the people, rather than shaft us by doing deals with the minor parties, TFPQ would not even exist. Until someone changes the system, we either get involved and play by the same rules or just sit on our bums and see fishing go the same way as duck shooting.

It is good you personally have a bee up your bum about the IR laws. I have the same kind of bee up mine, about what they have done and are continuing to do to my "passion" so you can kind of understand where I am coming from, even if you don't agree with me.

You feel strongly enough over IR that you will only ever vote labor....good for you. I feel strongly enough that I will vote for any bastard who gives rec fishing a fair go. If that means no one votes for TFPQ next time around, so be it. At least we went down swinging...but if we do...mark my words....the future of recreational fishing in this country is on a downward spiral which will not be halted. It won't effect us but our kids and grandkids just won't fish!! end of story.

Hope you caught a few over Easter.....I have been working like a dog (for not penalty rates) ;)

KC

PinHead
17-04-2006, 05:29 PM
Come on Kev..we agree on a lot of things...I know we both mean well just enjoy a debate at times and all with due respect..the way a debate should be conducted.

Hicksy..I watch neither ACA or Today Tonight...both those shows operate on the 3f principles..all stories are either fats, freaks or fast bucks..very little of actual current affair topics in either.

PinHead
17-04-2006, 05:41 PM
hicksy..I work in the construction industry..I am also an employer (and I do work hands on )..I will give you a good example of some union work..a former union boss (he is dead now) was found to have 2 beach houses built by a couple of construction companies..gratis. Why? To ensure union co-operation on their building sites..so much for caring about the worker.

I do admire Kev and the others who are doing something for what they believe in..good luck to them..I may not agree with everything they say and I also have a couple of other issues which I won't go into here..but..they are having a go.

hicksy
17-04-2006, 06:38 PM
Pinhead,
So the sixty million spent by the Federal government on the cole royal commission into the building industry to find all this supposed corruption found what?
Nothing!
Sixty million wasted.

hicksy
17-04-2006, 06:48 PM
KC,
I don't disagree with what your party is trying to achieve for recreational fisherman.
Just concerned where your preferences might go.
You have explained that in detail already so I understand what you are saying.
Hopefully Labor give you more of a hearing next time.
Hicksy

kc
17-04-2006, 08:22 PM
I hope so too.

Be nice if they actually realised lots of Labor and former labor voters are sick of the relationship they have with the greens. They are suppossed to be the workers party.
Then tonight our current environment minister is on the ABC news (I also don't watch ACA) overturning a VIc Government wind farm project because it "might" effect the orange bellied parrot with a potential for 1 bird strike per 1000 years............What the??

The lunatics have taken over the asylum :-/ ....so much for them pandering to big business or maybe the coal industry does not want wind farms and the parrots are just a ploy...dead set, it is all just getting too hard :(

Still be interested in what you would have done Hicksy....with the benifit of actually now knowing the outcome. Nats or greens...they were ultimately the 2 choices & on the basis of what's was best for fishing, which way would you have jumped?

KC

hicksy
17-04-2006, 08:36 PM
KC,
Never in my wildest dreams could I vote for the NATS so obviously I am biased. I'll give your question some thought and get back to you.
(Mate just dropped in for a few beers) duty calls

borisdog
18-04-2006, 10:45 AM
Am I the only person in the Australian electorate that realises my preferences go where I direct them? If you number each box then that's it people - that's where they go until your vote is either in the leading candidates pile or is "exhausted", TFPQ or anyone else can produce a "How to vote" card but if you don't agree then don't vote that way. No-one has to "vote the card". It takes less than 2 minutes to number every box " below the line" instead of just voting 1 above the line. If you vote 1 above the line then you HAVE directed your preference as per your primary votes preference deal. Just remember to put TFP first!!!

hicksy
19-04-2006, 02:44 PM
KC,

I think I have made my point about where my vote goes. LABOR. Always has , always will.

If I was in your position and solely on the basis of whats best for fishing, if Labor or liberal did not want to support or give the TFPQ the time of day and the Nats did, then for a party with a single focus I would have to agree that you would have to direct your preferences to them.

Whilst I acknowledge you have tried I would urge you to try harder to get the Labor party to the table. I have seen the ALP National policy on fishing posted somewhere on Ausfish and to me it doesn't look to bad. Maybe the TFPQ could further enhance that policy if it is given an opportunity.

Good luck

PinHead
21-04-2006, 04:40 PM
KC,
I don't disagree with what your party is trying to achieve for recreational fisherman.
Just concerned where your preferences might go.
You have explained that in detail already so I understand what you are saying.
Hopefully Labor give you more of a hearing next time.
Hicksy

Labor's main concerns regarding the environment etc come from within..due to their factional structure..the Left faction has a very strong "green" element that has to be appeased in factional meeting rooms.

kc
23-04-2006, 08:40 AM
Glad you understand Hicksy, even if you don't agree.

Borisdog also makes the good point that everyone has the right to determine their own preference flows by numbering each square.

Personally, & this is my opinion, not the party position, I will always be a "swinging" voter. I do not believe an ideological position which can only "allow" you to vote for one party is healthy. Surely, we are smart enough at any given election, to determine who or what party, offers "us" the best option. I swap regularly given the circumstances at the time and furture needs and often differ between state and federal. I have a fundamental problems with "I'll always vote^%$" no matter which side of the fence they sit on. Means you will always believe them and always trust them to do the right thing!! yeh right :-/

Sorry Hicksy, been burnt before & will no doubt be burnt again. I profess to know nothing about your industry but from the outside looking in it seems like the "building trade" in general has had a pretty good few years. Wether by accident or design, something must be going alright.

As an aside I also notice "our man Barnaby" kicking up a bit over some IR issues.

KC

hicksy
25-04-2006, 08:15 PM
KC,
The reason I will always vote Labor is the simple fact they are the only real party which will look after the social services for this country. Whilst I may not always agree with all there policies I am committed to continue to vote for them whilst they continue to look after these services.
Australia has a real problem at the moment of the idealogy of "Me, Myself and I" and that is why we have some big social problems in this country.
When people cast there vote they should be looking at the long term not the short term and considering how their vote will affect their family and community and the generations to come.
Hicksy

tunaman
24-05-2006, 11:07 PM
Must stick to labour!
At least they listen







sign tunaman