Gee Dad, where were you when the fishing stopped?

[MulletMan]

Understandably and quite correctly, there has been a lot of discussion as of late on the efforts of what I call the "kissy fishy" organizations and groups who are making a concerted, professional and well coordinated attack on what we affectionately call our "fishing rights" .............. and these guys will continue to win on every occasion because they know at recreational fishing level we are all a disorganized bunch or moaners and groaners who won't get off their lazy butts to do anything constructive or supportive of those out there trying!

Doubt that??

Then have a quik squiz at FISHING NEWS on this site and see the responses to:

a) # WILL YOU FIGHT FOR YOUR FISHING RIGHTS and
b) # THE FIGHT FOR MORETON BAY HAS BEGUN

Have a look at the positive and constructive replies out of a combined "read" by some 425 people????

Yep, THREE (3)

In my post (a) I forecast that the response would be from one to five percent - spot on eh! How did I know that? Easy, much easier to moan and groan on AUSFISH than to get off ones bum and make noises in the right direction. Read as "let somebody else do it!" - the good old Aussie apathy!

As goes the old saying back in the dark days of "where were you when the war was on Dad?" can now be modified "where were you when they stopped all the fishing Dad?"

"Ah gee son, I had a bit of a whinge on AUSFISH a cupple of times"

Why bother harrassing my MP on the issues we feel so strongly about, why bother supporting SUNFISH or THE FISHING PARTY, why bother talking to my many fishing mates and getting them to do the same! Nah, y bovver!!

Sorry guys, but whatever we get we deserve!!! I am NOT saying these groups are the cat's mieow and are right in everything they say or stand for but they are all we have. I guess I get a bit peed off when I see that a BOATING topic of "Cats - Go For it" gets 3298 reads and 174 replies yet topics essential to the future of our fishing gets less than 15% of that! Not knocking that topic but where the hell do our priorities lie?

The length of time (often extensive) it takes for members/visitors to post a topic or reply on AUSFISH would be better directed at a Polly or those with some influence in righting the perceived wrongs! Maybe we will win, maybe we will lose but after the battle we can at least say we put up a damn good effort!

Before you attack me, just ask yourself two questions OK??

"What am I doing CONSTRUCTIVELY to address the issues affecting my fishing rights?" and two being:

"Am I simply part of the problem and not part of the solution?"

Remember, a good old fashion bitch on AUSFISH may make you feel better but it is absolutely useless in addressing the issues at the right level!!!

I sent off ONE (1) email to an MP and have a meeting with him next week to discuss the issue!

Just one last favour guys and gals, if and when you post a reply, please start off with:

"This is what I have done/will be doing to become involved in the issues facing the recreational fishing industry:

1. # # # #
2. # #
3. # #


I'm dun - ready to repel boarders!! # #:-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[

[bidkev]

Mate, it's a long week-end, and I'm willing to bet that with the kids at home, some of us only have time for a quick read with little time to answer atm.

Give it time and don't co-erce. If folk feel like they're being forced (shamed) into responding, then the odds are, they won't.

kev

The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatsoever that it is not utterly absurd. Indeed, in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.

[MulletMan]

Thanks for reply Kev ------ your comments are always good to read but this time your spelling is wrong!

Spelt A-P-A-T-H-Y

God forbid, we have to rely on members/readers who feel "coerced or shamed" by reading the truth!

If anybody is so sad as to take their bat and ball and go home over this then they don't possess the qualities that are needed anyway!

I have a family too and if I can take the time to sit down and put up this post then readers can take a few minutes to respond!!

Hope ya killed the fish over Easter!

[Lucky_Phill]

"This is what I have done/will be doing to become involved in the issues facing recreational fishing activities:

1. # Met with Minister/ DPI managers/ DPIF staff #to discuss recreational fishing.
# #
2. # # Became a fully paid up member of " The Fishing Party "

3. # #Subscribed to QLD Govt publications involved with the Fishing Industry

4. # Responded to every RIS for the last 4 years in relation to recreational fishing

5. #Emailed, Local members, Federal members, #State Premier and Minister

6. # Read a lot of PETA's properganga ( propergander ? ) so as to keep abreast of their ' activities' and agenda

7. # Put into practice and advocate to others, the Rules and Regulations regarding Recreational Fishing #Size and Bag Limits within Queensland.

8. # Support all petitions presented to me in relation to reducing the #" Effort and Size " of the Commercial Netting Industry.

9. # #Encourage " best practice " #recreational fishing to our younger generation

10. # #Get actively involved with internet discussion groups

How much of my time does this take up ? #Less than an hour a week.

Now.

I feel ya passion, Panther, and I don't believe anyone can predict with certainty what our rec fishing will be like in 10, 20 or 30 years.

Although the ' apathy ' exists, in many, many areas of our Aussie lives, Fishing is an intregal part of our " Way of Life ". # Our # " #Way of Life " will always be protected by the Govt of the day, regardless of political pursausion or extreme lobby groups. #Fishing #will not change, just the circumstances in which we partake may.

Lead and they will follow. #

Cheers Phill

[MulletMan]

Yer a legend Phil!
In your presence I am but a mere nothing, an insignificent being, lowest of the low, scum, filth and I grovel in your shadow ............!!!
Oh we had more like you eh?
I guess I get so damned frustrated at how simple it would be to get our message across to the right people in the right places................ we may lose but what a fight eh?
I am off to Parliament House week after next for din dins with a great supporting MP, hope to meet Old Honest Pete (see guys, I DO have some contacts!) and have no compulsion in asking my MP how we should go about something like this i.e. email, poll, petition etc. I know he will advise me honestly and maybe we can get a lead from there............?
I got an $85,000 floating jetty installed at Victoria Boat for the Boaties by doing it the right way and in spite of "ah, it will never happen" like to think I have the runs on the board.
Or maybe I will just get battered into submission by the majority who don't want to make the effort.....
Sigh! Gunna clean my boat and fix the dillies up!

[wayne_cook]

This is what I have done/will be doing to become involved in the issues facing the recreational fishing industry:

1 emailed minister for fishing
2 emailed local member
3 emailed premier
4 joined eco
5 being involved


recieved email back from premiers dept nothing from other 2

Were not all apathetic

[PinHead]

I will admit it, I have not done a thing and probably never will.
I do not believe that fishing will be banned in Qld...political suicide for any mob that tries to do it...plus..if they do try and ban fishing , I won't care...I will just break the law and fish anyway. I spend more time working and have limited time for other activities.

[Lucky_Phill]

Well Panther, there are many, many more out there that will NOT post here saying what they are up to and do. They go about quietly " making a difference '. I also firmly believe that those who make the most difference are seen the least. ;)

The stopping of ring netting in Hervey Bay

The stopping of Tailor netting on Fraser Island ( and other beaches )

are a couple of prime examples of recreational fishers having an input into a fishery that needed to be addressed due to ' unsustainability ".

I was merely pointing out what can be done and how little time it takes to do it.

Cheers Phill

[Derek_Bullock]

I do not believe that fishing will be banned in Qld...political suicide for any mob that tries to do it...

Thats not true PinHead.

Fishing is already banned on 30% of the Great Barrier Reef. The Great Sandy Marine Park will be gazetted later this year with conservationists calling for fishing to be banned in 33% of it. Fishing is currently banned in 1% of Moreton Bay and the conservationists are calling for 30 to 50% fishing bans when the zoning gets reveiwed later this year. We are still waiting for information on the Gold Coast Marine Park. Who knows what percentage of that will have fishing bans. Then there is the Gulf of Carpentaria.

Maybe fishing wont be banned completely, although there is plenty of action to suggest that conservationists are working on it, but they sure are reducing the areas we can fish currently. Now with PETA working on banning catch and release for gamefishing who knows what will come out of that.

I just spent easter on the south coast of NSW. They are working on banning fishing in 30 to 50% of Marine Parks down here as well.

Writing is on the wall.


Derek

[PinHead]

Derek..the conservationists are probably working on it and may succeed in some areas. We give them plenty of ammo....have a look at some of the boat ramps around...bunch of sloths these rec fishos...fish frames left above high water mark at a local ramp...pollution from motors etc..is there any conclusive scientific evidence that soft plastics DO NOT pollute the waterways...alas we give them a lot of their ammunition...catch and release will be another in the firing lines. They will quote the numbers of boat registrations as an unsustainable number of fishos (even though a great many do not fish or do not catch any fish)..but they will still lobby and be successful in some areas.

The following is taken from the Federal ALP National Platform and Consitution:

Marine Environment Protection

65.
Labor is committed to promoting the conservation and sustainable use of our marine and coastal environment. Labor will work with State, Territory and local authorities and agencies to ensure Australia's biologically diverse and fragile marine environment is monitored and sustainably managed.


66.
The Commonwealth government should provide leadership, policies and resources to ensure integrated regional ecosystem-based management across jurisdictions and maintain marine biodiversity.


67.
Labor supports a comprehensive assessment of offshore ecosystems to inform policy development and management of marine resources.


68.
A Labor Government will work towards the reduction of the serious threat to water quality from coastal shipping practices, sewage and stormwater disposal and thermal pollution, nutrient sedimentation, and introduction of exotic pests and diseases via ship ballast water.


69.
A Labor Government will work to mitigate noise pollution in the marine environment, and sonar and seismic activities harmful to cetaceans and other vulnerable marine species.


70.
Planning imperatives include the need to address unsuitable coastal development including all future canal developments, agricultural practices, pollution of estuary and coastal water, ship transport regulation, rig and pipeline developments and industry accountability for pollution.


71.
A Labor Government will promote the efficient and sustainable use of Australia's marine resources and will address unsustainable fishing practices.


72.
Labor supports the creation of marine national parks and 'no take' or 'green zones' in the Great Barrier Reef to sustain ecosystem health and sustain fish stocks.


73.
Labor will promote the conservation of key ecosystem health indicator species such as whales, dugong and turtles both in Australian waters and across the world's oceans.


74.
A Labor Government will support technological advances in fisheries to minimise bycatch of non-target species in fisheries and ensure this serious threat to a number of marine threatened species is eliminated.


75.
A Labor Government will develop strategies to mitigate the impact of marine debris in our coasts and oceans that poses a threat to many marine species.


76.
A Labor Government will work through international forums to address unsustainable fishing practices worldwide.


77.
A Labor Government will work with indigenous communities and recreational fishermen to ensure hunting of marine animals is sustainable and humane and threatened species are protected.


78.
A Labor Government will pursue a permanent end to all commercial and scientific whaling and the establishment of a global whale sanctuary.


79.
A Labor Government will pursue high seas marine protected areas to protect biodiversity and work to address the increasing problem of unregulated, unreported and illegal fishing through all appropriate legal instruments.
"

The above seems rather "green" to me without the input of any other conservation organisations.

But....lots of votes will go to the ALP due to Howard's IR reforms...bit of a catch 22 situation.

[Derek_Bullock]

Derek..the conservationists are probably working on it and may succeed in some areas. We give them plenty of ammo....have a look at some of the boat ramps around...bunch of sloths these rec fishos...fish frames left above high water mark at a local ramp...pollution from motors etc..is there any conclusive scientific evidence that soft plastics DO NOT pollute the waterways...alas we give them a lot of their ammunition...catch and release will be another in the firing lines. They will quote the numbers of boat registrations as an unsustainable number of fishos (even though a great many do not fish or do not catch any fish)..but they will still lobby and be successful in some areas.

The following is taken from the Federal ALP National Platform and Consitution:

Marine Environment Protection

65.
Labor is committed to promoting the conservation and sustainable use of our marine and coastal environment. Labor will work with State, Territory and local authorities and agencies to ensure Australia's biologically diverse and fragile marine environment is monitored and sustainably managed.


66.
The Commonwealth government should provide leadership, policies and resources to ensure integrated regional ecosystem-based management across jurisdictions and maintain marine biodiversity.


67.
Labor supports a comprehensive assessment of offshore ecosystems to inform policy development and management of marine resources.


68.
A Labor Government will work towards the reduction of the serious threat to water quality from coastal shipping practices, sewage and stormwater disposal and thermal pollution, nutrient sedimentation, and introduction of exotic pests and diseases via ship ballast water.


69.
A Labor Government will work to mitigate noise pollution in the marine environment, and sonar and seismic activities harmful to cetaceans and other vulnerable marine species.


70.
Planning imperatives include the need to address unsuitable coastal development including all future canal developments, agricultural practices, pollution of estuary and coastal water, ship transport regulation, rig and pipeline developments and industry accountability for pollution.


71.
A Labor Government will promote the efficient and sustainable use of Australia's marine resources and will address unsustainable fishing practices.


72.
Labor supports the creation of marine national parks and 'no take' or 'green zones' in the Great Barrier Reef to sustain ecosystem health and sustain fish stocks.


73.
Labor will promote the conservation of key ecosystem health indicator species such as whales, dugong and turtles both in Australian waters and across the world's oceans.


74.
A Labor Government will support technological advances in fisheries to minimise bycatch of non-target species in fisheries and ensure this serious threat to a number of marine threatened species is eliminated.


75.
A Labor Government will develop strategies to mitigate the impact of marine debris in our coasts and oceans that poses a threat to many marine species.


76.
A Labor Government will work through international forums to address unsustainable fishing practices worldwide.


77.
A Labor Government will work with indigenous communities and recreational fishermen to ensure hunting of marine animals is sustainable and humane and threatened species are protected.


78.
A Labor Government will pursue a permanent end to all commercial and scientific whaling and the establishment of a global whale sanctuary.


79.
A Labor Government will pursue high seas marine protected areas to protect biodiversity and work to address the increasing problem of unregulated, unreported and illegal fishing through all appropriate legal instruments.
"

The above seems rather "green" to me without the input of any other conservation organisations.

But....lots of votes will go to the ALP due to Howard's IR reforms...bit of a catch 22 situation.


When I think about it, I am not so sure that I dont have a problem with any of the above PROVIDED IT IS BASED ON SOUND SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE.


Derek

[waldo35]

and when all u can buy in australian shops is asian farmed prawn [fed on growth hormones and god knows what] and bassa fillets [ fed on reprocessed chook poo] are u gonna say gosh we should have maybe supported our local fishing industry [pro] instead of propagating green propaganda and believing the lies.
support ur right to access to environmentally sustainable harvest of australian seafood.

[wayne_cook]

I will admit it, I have not done a thing and probably never will.
I do not believe that fishing will be banned in Qld...political suicide for any mob that tries to do it...plus..if they do try and ban fishing , I won't care...I will just break the law and fish anyway. I spend more time working and have limited time for other activities.


How full will the jails be if we all did this? :-/
Or would fisheries have a huge boat shed full of boats & 4x4s. :o

[Lucky_Phill]

OH..........shoot...........forgot something Mr Panther.

Where was I at the last Federal Election ?

At my local polling booth, handing out " fishing party " how to vote cards. Jeez I get around. ::)

Yes, Greg, I agree, as I said, I don't believe that fishing will be totally banned. These Green zones, yellow etc are in place now, but there is scope for change. If the powers that be see in the future, that we ended up fishing in a bathtub, those coloured zones can be " moved ".

Sorry Waldo, there is just one word the commercial industry and the Govt use in relation to the actions of commercial fishing, that really does not sit well with me, and should be changed. That word is " Harvest ". I cannot find in any reference book where it states that you do NOT have to sow, to reap a Harvest. Don't get me wrong here, I detest the imported " fish " for want of a better word, but I would like to see a commercial fishing industry in Australia, leading the way in ' proven " eco-sustainable methods.

Did I digress ? sorry, what was the question ? ;D ;D :D

cheers Phill

[waldo35]

phil oxford concise dictionary defines harvest as
reaping and gathering in of grain or other products,corn crop, seasons yeild of any natural product.
no mention of sowing there im afraid.

[Derek_Bullock]

Hey Waldo

There are heaps of definitions for "harvest" and yes I agree with you and disagree with Phil. #You do not have to "sow" first.

The following is a Google search. #I have bolded a few interesting ones.

Don't you just love the one in red. #::) ::) ::)


crop: the yield from plants in a single growing season
the consequence of an effort or activity; "they gathered a harvest of examples"; "a harvest of love"

reap: gather, as of natural products; "harvest the grapes"
the gathering of a ripened crop the season for gathering crops

remove from a culture or a living or dead body, as for the purposes of transplantation; "The Chinese are said to harvest organs from executed criminals"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Harvesting is the process of gathering crops off the fields. On smaller farms with minimal mechanization, harvesting is the most labour-intensive activity of the growing season. On large, mechanized farms, harvesting utilizes the most expensive and sophisticated types of farm machinery, like the combine harvester. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvest

Harvest, also known as the IBM 7950, was a one-of-a-kind adjunct to the Stretch computer which was installed at the US National Security Agency. It was delivered in 1962 and operated until 1976, when it was decommissioned. It was built by IBM in Poughkeepsie, New York, and its electronics (fabricated of the same kind of discrete transistors used for Stretch) were physically about twice as big as the Stretch to which it was attached. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HARVEST

Harvest is an album by Neil Young, which was the best-selling album of 1972. The album featured several high calibre guests, including the London Symphony Orchestra, Linda Ronstadt, Stephen Stills, Graham Nash and James Taylor. Harvest hit #1 on the Billboard Music Charts (North America) pop albums chart.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvest_(album)

The total number or poundage of fish caught and kept from an area over a period of time. Note that landings, catch, and harvest are different.
www.ncfisheries.net/stocks/defsf_j.htm

the cutting, felling, and gathering of forest timber.
www.dnr.state.md.us/forests/gloss.html

cutting and gathering a tree crop. In a forest harvest, trees are felled and moved to a central location (landing) for final transport by trucks.
www.sfrc.ufl.edu/Extension/ssfor11.htm

A research project that developed an architecture for distributed searching, including protocols and formats.
www.cs.cornell.edu/wya/DigLib/MS1999/glossary.html

to gather a crop when it is finished growing; The process of threshing or picking a grain crop by a large machine called a combine. It can also refer to picking vegetable and fruit crops by hand.
www.cce.cornell.edu/washington/Ag/NewFarmer/Course/Glossary.html

the act of gathering a crop from the field when it is ripe. Also, the reward for trying hard.
www.artsconnected.org/artsnetmn/spaces/vocabulary.html

Electronic file transfer over the Internet of metadata records between repositories. A primary method of transfer is to use the Open Archives Initiative Protocol for Metadata Harvesting (OAI-PMH).
www.dlese.org/documents/glossary.html

Fish that are caught and retained in a fishery (consumptive harvest).
www.stateofthesalmon.org/resource/glossary.asp

To intentionally gather plants, animals and other natural resources for use, especially renewable resources; a human intervention in the life cycle in order to use a resource. In wildlife management, hunting is considered a form of harvest.
www.spaceforspecies.ca/glossary/h.htm

To take bone marrow from one person and donate to a person needing bone marrow transplant.
www.mcw.edu/peds/mccc/terms.htm

To remove trees from the forest for the purpose of using or selling them
www.ifdn.com/teacher/glossary.htm

the take or consumption of a renewable natural resource by humans
www.fws.gov/midwest/mussel/glossary.html

The word harvest means to collect. We harvest water just as we harvest crops. We wait for it to fall from the sky and collect the run-off in reservoirs.
www.education.melbournewater.com.au/content/glossary/

The act of removing shellstock from growing waters and placing the shellstock on or in a manmade conveyance or other means of transport. (2)
www.shellfishquality.ca/glossary.htm

Harvest is picking the grapes and bringing them into the winery. Here in Sonoma County we tend to start harvesting the grapevines in late August or early September and finish sometime in October. Each year varies because growing grapes is an agricultural business.
www.chateausouverain.com/souverain/section/glossary.jsp

An information discovery and access system
www.netlib.org/utk/papers/lifn/node7.html

To collect plant material at some point during its life cycle.
iss.cet.edu/farm/FIS_RS1.xml

(verb) to catch fish, (noun) those fish which are caught in a fishery.
www.pwsac.com/terms.htm

the season for gathering grain or fruit. On the 16th day of Abib (or April) a handful of ripe ears of corn was offered as a first-fruit before the Lord, and immediately after this the harvest commenced (Lev. 23:9-14; 2 Sam. 21:9, 10; Ruth 2:23). It began with the feast of Passover and ended with Pentecost, thus lasting for seven weeks (Ex. 23:16). The harvest was a season of joy (Ps. 126:1-6; Isa. 9:3). This word is used figuratively Matt. 9:37; 13:30; Luke 10:2; John 4:35. (See AGRICULTURE.)
www.godweb.org/blT0001600.htm

A powerful Net-based search and retrieval system developed at the University of Colorado.
docs.rinet.ru/WebLomaster/appa.htm

The Harvest is the culmination of Blake's agricultural metaphor, un-creating the created world at the end of time; it includes the Last Judgment.
www.blakearchive.org.uk/glossary.html

managed removal of trees by selective or complete harvest methods.
www.logging.org/kids/Montana%20Forests%20Forever/glossary.htm

That portion of a watershed's in-river harvest that is harvested downstream of the watershed.
www.delta.dfg.ca.gov/camp/glossary.html

means the reduction of wildlife into possession, and includes hunting, trapping, fishing, netting, egging, picking, collecting, gathering, spearing, killing, capturing or taking by any means;
www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/pr/agr/nunavik/mareg/art1_e.html

(a) In general use, removing some or all the trees on an area. (b) Technical definition: Removing trees on an area to 1) obtain income; 2) develop the environment necessary to regenerate the forest; and on occasion, 3) achieve some special objectives such as the development of special wildlife habitat needs.
texaspinestraw.tamu.edu/glossary.html

[Derek_Bullock]

Even the CSIRO like the word "harvest" when it comes to describe both recreational and professional fishing. #:o :o :o :o

Interesting article as well. #::) ::) ::) ::)

I somehow don't think "harvest" is worth debating. 8-)


Commercial and recreational harvest of fish from two Australian coastal rivers

RJ West and GNG Gordon

Commercial and recreational harvests of fish from two eastern Australian coastal rivers, the Richmond and the Clarence, have been compared for the period from March 1988 to May 1989, using commercial fisheries statistics and a roving creel census of daytime recreational anglers. For both rivers, sea mullet (Mugil cephalus) made up about 70% of the commercial catch by weight but was not caught in significant numbers by anglers. Fish species harvested in large numbers by both sectors were yellowfin bream (Acanthopagrus australis), dusky flathead (Platycephalus fiscus), luderick (Girella tricuspidata), sand whiting (Sillago ciliata), mulloway (Argyrosomus hololepidotus) and tailor (Pomatomus saltatrix). For the Richmond River, yellowfin bream, dusky flathead and tailor were harvested principally by recreational anglers; sand whiting were equally shared between fishing sectors, and harvests of luderick and mulloway were dominated by commercial fishers. For the Clarence River, which supports one of the largest estuarine-based commercial fisheries in Australia, tailor were harvested principally by recreational anglers; yellowfin bream, dusky flathead and mulloway were equally shared between fishing sectors, and sand whiting and luderick were taken predominantly by commercial fishers. Although data on recreational fishing throughout Australia are limited, anglers now appear to be the dominant harvesters of several estuarine fish species. As in other parts of the world, the numbers of recreational anglers in Australian waters appear to be increasing, and this situation is likely to lead to both heightened conflict between the user groups and increased exploitation of a limited resource. The need for sustained and cost-effective monitoring of recreational angler effort and harvests is emphasized.

[waldo35]

Recreational fishing is a growing component of the total fishery harvest in many countries, but the impacts of this sector on aquatic resources are often ignored in the management of aquatic systems. Recreational fishing is open access and, in many inshore regions, the recreational harvest exceeds the commercial harvest. The environmental impacts from recreational angling can be both ecologically significant and broad in scope and include: the removal of a considerable biomass of a wide variety of species; discarded by-catch; possible trophic cascades through the removal of higher order carnivores; impacts on habitat through bait harvesting; impacts of introduced and translocated species to support angling fisheries; direct impacts on sea-birds, marine mammals and reptiles; and angler generated pollution. Management, for several reasons, has largely ignored these environmental impacts from recreational fishing. Recreational fishing impacts are cumulative, whereas there is a tendency for consideration of impacts in isolation. Recreational fishing lobbyists have generally been successful in focusing public and political attention on other impacts such as commercial fishing, and recreational fishing has tended not to come under close scrutiny from conservation and environmental groups. Without changes to the monitoring and management of recreational fisheries that incorporate the broad ecological impacts from the activity, it may not be ecologically sustainable in the long term and Australia will not meet its international obligations of protecting aquatic biodiversity. The definition of property rights and appropriate measures to prevent or manage large scale marine restocking are two emerging issues that also need to be addressed.

mmmmmmm further imput on recreational .......dont wanna use the word harvest anymore......how bout effort.

[waldo35]

oops last post from scientific article called
swallowing the bait; is recco fishing ecologically sustainable.

[Gazza]

Recreational fishing is open access and, in many inshore regions, the recreational harvest exceeds the commercial harvest.

ONLY in "many" inshore areas....... ::)

must be a typo.....should be "ALL" ;) :-X

:'( :'( :'(

[MulletMan]

Geez Phil, you got me!
I was handing out cards for ......................aaaagggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh ........... Labor!!
I have sinned................... am unworthy!
When the next election comes around I won't be repeating the same mistake.
Will find the nearest TFP candidate and help him/her.....................
Think you should stand for the spot eh? ;) ;) ;)

[waldo35]

and again gazza ur foto showing bout 2;1 catch to bycatch.....nice looking shot.

[Gazza]

I'll settle for 3:1 bycatch to target ;) , and call it "Prawn Marinara" :-? :(

Mate ,
I'll buy shares in ya trawler when ya catch prawns and pillies ONLY :) ;)

[webby]

Somewhere along the line someone has to ask the question on catch sharing.
When do us reck's get our equitable share, given our much greater participation level.
The answer is, when us rec's get off our apathetic, complacent bum and make our feelings known at a political level.
Excuse me for getting cranky, but dont expect too much sympathy for the whingeing most rec's indulge in "Bloody Pros" not leaving us any fish, when invariably the same person will make a comment to effects "I dont want to know about fishing politics...its Bullshit; i just want to go fishing".
While we continue to avaid fishing politics. branding it "Bullshit" and refusing to get involved, we really cant complain about the commerical fishery taking all they can get.
after all, its business to them. It's "Us" rec's who fish as a pastime and pay lip service to esoteric values like conservation of fish stocks.
While we allow them to, the commerical fishery will continue to take as big a slice as they can get. And in all honesty, how can you blame them for it?.
Any other businessman in any other line of business would treat their competition exactly the same.
Where all full of comment on these type sites, but how many are willing to sacrifice some of their time or exert a little energy to help our cause.
Until we all combine as one, we will get no where.
regards

[Lucky_Phill]

Yes, you #are quite correct waldo...........that is the dictionary defination.

So here's a snippet from my own research, which I still find does not support the Harvest word as being associtaed with what the Commercial Fishing does.

v. har·vest·ed, har·vest·ing, har·vests
v. tr.

To gather (a crop).
To take or kill (fish or deer, for example) for food, sport, or population control.
To extract from a culture or a living or recently deceased body, especially for transplantation: harvested bone marrow.
To gather a crop from.

Quite clearly, grains are gathered, but more importantly, the orange text section does not refer to Take or Kill for Monetary Gain, it clearly states for #" food, sport, or population control." Therefore this includes the rec fisho, as he ( she ) takes for food, sport.

Yeah, Yeah, I know, clutching at straws I am........ :)

Dunno. I will sleep on it. !

Cheers #Phill

[MulletMan]

Well said Webby! Right on the mark!
Have a look at the number of readers who showed an interest in the two items under FISHING NEWS being about Moreton Bay and Fishing Rights!
Two (2) per subject!
Nobody wants to do anything - even post a reply!
All just too hard isn't it!!
Get more response from readers in how to clean a damn fish head than you do in getting some interest in doing (anything) re the above two items!
sad - sad - sad!

[bidkev]

Perhaps the people who are *really* doing something are that involved that they don't have time to read here?

Yes, I agree, it appears that there is a lot of apathy but human nature being as it is, we all (hopefully) do what we can when we can.

I feel that posting about people's "inadequacies" though is not the correct way to ellicit input or instigate action. It is counter productive and it only serves to alienate those, who at a more opportune time, may be of some service. All you achieve by this kind of response to lack of response is to get up people's noses.

kev

Tread softly, make ground steadily, make no noise until you get there.

[waldo35]

kev do u make ur own homilies or are u quoting.......last 1 has sumthing of suntzu to it.

[waldo35]

webby reccos need to make up their mind wether they are an industry or not. if u r and as u state u r in competition for the same resource then perhaps u should pay to use the resource in the same way pros do ,[please dont give me the fuel tax etc argument it dont wash] and have a logbook reporting system the same way pros do. otherwise u r arguing for an unrestricted industry to by in competition with a restricted industry and as far as im aware this is against any anti unfair competion legislation.

[Gazza]

Hi Waldo ,still chucking grenades mate ;D ...good onya :-*

competition for the same resource then perhaps u should pay to use the resource in the same way pros do
:-* k.i.s.s. :-*
Pro's pay a licence ,to enable them to SELL ,no licence ,no sell

Rec's own 100% of Q'ld (as taxpayers) ,some are rec-divers,some are rec-spearo's , some are rec-fisho's , no licence, no SELL


and have a logbook reporting system the same way pros do
:-* k.i.s.s. :-*
Pro's have logbooks/cheatsheets to support their Tax deductions ,as a business ,and rightly so.....

Rec's use net income $$$ , to spend/invest in the resource/economy ,with no Tax deductibility allowed or expected, and rightly so.....

[bidkev]

kev do u make ur own homilies or are u quoting.......last 1 has sumthing of suntzu to it.


The last one was my own as I thought it related to the way the thread was going.

My thoughts were that if someone was trying to gather an army then they sould do it quietly, efficiently and save their energy for the fight once the (loyal) army was mustered.

Watch a recruiting officer at work for the Defence force. He makes the potential recriuit feel valued, he doesn't slag 'em off because of their hesitancy or lack of articulation.

The fact that the threads in question only had 2 responses is irrelevant. Nearly 200 reads proves an interest in the subject matter and just because some may not be articulate enough to respond or even find a need to, does not mean that they aren't recruited.

Co-ercion and press-ganging never produces an efficient army. The army has to have the guts for the fight, feel valued by their leaders, and most importantly, have belief in the cause (motivation). Motivation for the fight can come from many quarters but good leaders alone can motivate. (Potential) leaders do not co-erce but nurture

kev

This too is appropriate.

It takes years to build up trust, and only seconds to destroy it.

[Gazza]

"Ya can't change history ,but you can change the future"

"It's not a crime to cross your own boundaries ,unless a green zone"

"I'll punch ya lights out ,if I catch you stealing from my pots"
"You will be crab-bait-mush , if I catch you stealing my pots"

[smiley=angel.gif]
[smiley=laola.gif] [smiley=laola.gif]

[waldo35]

isnt it funny tha :o >:( >:(t when it is percieved that a profisher is personalizing an arguement we are pulled up but when a recco refers to a profishers logbook as a cheat sheet and call to question the honesty and integegrity of the entire profishing sector nothing is said...as in the case on other threads suggesting the value of running outboards thru profishers nets. booooooooo to u one eyed moderators.practice wot u preach.
and gazza u still didnt address the issue of logbooks for reccos to accurately define recco effort.....u want equitable access to the resource pony up. >:(

[webby]

Kev you take things personnal too much.
What im trying to get across is, if we the rec's dont pull together we might as well not try at all.
i could count on both hands the numbers just on this site, who are and who may be doing or have a interested in their future on the water.
As for Wally's comments. mate we do it for pleasure not for profit.
regards

[bidkev]

Kev you take things personnal too much.
What im trying to get across is, if we the rec's dont pull together we might as well not try at all.
i could count on both hands the numbers just on this site, who are and who may be doing or have a interested in their future on the water.
As for Wally's comments. mate we do it for pleasure not for profit.
regards

Webby, I know what you're trying to get across and that is commendable. I don't take things personal, and I do my level best not to personalise things. I just think that the initial manner of the Pink Panther was/is more likely to switch people off than turn 'em on. Calling folk apathetic just because they didn't respond isn't likely to endear someone to the cause. Just because they don't respond, doesn't mean they ain't interested or aren't doing their bit in their own way. The thread has received plenty of reads and that in it'self has sown a few seeds without "getting up" folk just because they don't reply.

kev

A jury consists of twelve people chosen to decide who has the best lawyer

[waldo35]

are u suggesting webby that i dont take pleasure in my work????????
and whats ur situation do u get paid for writing for magazines,being moderator here, going out fishing to be able to write for magazine....not having a go at u personally but if u do then u do do it for profit.
and as to the matter of profit i operate a local trawler providing sustainable [yeah yeah ive heard ur arguements.....dpi says its sustainable] seafood to local consumers..... i work very hard and my profit margins are low.......dont confuse your local seafood provider with the big hookers and big companies.

[rando]

Waldo
We already own ALL the fish ( public Resource)
YOU pay us(government) for the right to profit from taking OUR resource.

[Gazza]

isnt it funny tha :o >:( >:(t when it is percieved that a profisher is personalizing an arguement we are pulled up

A. but when a recco refers to a profishers logbook as a cheat sheet and call to question the honesty and integegrity of the entire profishing sector nothing is said

B. and gazza u still didnt address the issue of logbooks for reccos to accurately define recco effort.....u want equitable access to the resource pony up. >:(
A. You've ALL been audited mate?...my apologies :-[
B. Waldo , you want Recco. logbooks ;) so they SHOULD be funded and administrated by the PRO-fishers ::) ,maybe via PRO Licence increases.... :-[ :o sign me up , bring it on!!! :P ...but it STILL won't be accurate(100%)

FOR NOW mate
Avg. recco's catch 12~15kgs.....per year ;)
Rec-days = 6~7 .......per year ;)
MY average is about 30~50kgs. of prawns bought per year
......so i guess that's about 120~200kgs of by-catch :-[

Any tackle,bait,boats,etc..ask the businesses that SELL them to us
THEY have "logbooks" :-[ :-[ ....100% accurate ;D

Total Qld Mate????.....8100T ,about 30% of the bycatch in the gulf :-[

[waldo35]

blah blah blah same old tired arguments....reccos own all the fish eh what about when old mum, blind freddy etc wanna feed of fish u gonna go get it 4 them rando......u said it u self u cant catch a fish for ur self letalone others and gazza u pay nothing for use of this public resource so fund ur own log books we fund ours.

[rando]

Waldo
If not the people of queensland, then who owns the resource in Qld?


Again you confuse the issue which is, and always has been bycatch and the effect of removing it from the foodchain and the degradation of the environment by trawling.

Catch all the prawns you want, but dont do it at a cost to the environment that is unacceptable.

If it is such a concern about the plight of those that dont fish then I assume that the industry will donate your catch to them as they are obviously highly socially motivated and a benefactor to all ;) ;D

[redspeckle]

Pink Panther
I leave the comments here to my follow Fishing Party Members
For me Action is louder than words and getting out there informing people Like being a the recent Tinny and Tackle show for 3 days on the stand and letting the people of SE QLD know what the the Australian Marine conversation soicety want to do to Moreton Bay and what they done up North QLD and so on
Help in the part of forming Brisbane South Branch of The Fishing party and now being the Treasure
Also being activist in other fishing party helping out
The big picture here is to make the Fishing vote count at the next State Election so we can tell goverments of the day we don't like whats going on here and just think its not just about fishing also going affect the boating, 4WD's ,Camping +all other outdoor activities and their bussiness house' being involed with it down turn in sales in which means loss of jobs and so on eg look at whats happen to North QLD 41 to 47 percent down turn in sale's
Just remember united we stand divide we fall
Mitch

[MulletMan]

I think the shame was that this topic was moved to the FISHING NEWS section.................... where previous posts suggest it is not read by a large majority of viewers.
The "reads" dropped to about two a day whereas in the GENERAL section, there was initially a great response to the post.
I did PM the moderator to see if it could be moved back again but got ignored so there you go!

[kc]

Sorry to have missed involvement in this debate because it has been a good one but work work work :( :(

No man ever said on his death bed....If only I'd spent more time at the office!
I note Waldo fights a bit of a lone hand here as a pro but he is to be admired for it. Very hard to contantly swim against the current.

From an official TFPQ perspective.

We support commercial fishing ventures which are sustainable & supply domestic markets.
We support environmentally sensitive aquaculture.
We do not support large scale export driven commercial fisheries.
We do not support inshore beam & otter trawl.
We do not support the commercial expoitation (not harvest) of billfish.


Waldo we too believe that Australian consumers should be able to access Australian Seafood....just a bit hard when Abalone is $200 a Kg and Coral Trout over $50.

EVERY fish kept by recreational fishers ends up on our tables...be it our own, our family or the next door neighbor...even the black market(by no means do we condone that).

If the commercial fishing community woke up to the fact that they are potentially facing a PR crisis when mr/s Joe public finally twig to why they are eating Meekong River Catfish they might get some more sympathy from rec fishers.

There are bad eggs on both sides of the "fence" here. I have seen some very ordinary displays from ignorant , stupid "recs" and some shockers from greedy pros taking a short term profit view.

What has been alluded too several times is that we should not be enemies. Recreational fishers now have a level of influence far beyond anything ever available before...an organised vote. Commercial fishers have for many years had effective funded lobbying and enjoyed influence via political donations and subsequent political favour. One of these 2 is a FAR more powerful political tool.

Times have changed. Your own industry peak bodies have recognised it and now wave the olive branch. Government has recognised it. TFPQ was involved in recent funding of QSIA from the Commenwealth Government.

Time for the commercial fishing industry to swallow its pride and understand that we can be the biggest chance they have to save their industry from greedy multinationals and green driven government policy.

KC

[Fisher_Boats]

KC........Unfortunately most freak out when the word "politics" is mentioned......but it appears to be the only way ::)


Pink Panther.... The apathy drives me insane #[smiley=hammer.gif] ...but at the end of the day just makes me want to try harder for my kids ;)

Cheers Col

[Lucky_Phill]

I dunno Mr Panther. I did not move the topic here, but I feel it has paid dividends.

Shall I explain ? quite simply, the fisherfolk out there in Ausfish land that actually give a damn, are prepared to do something and have the nouce to respond, read this forum.

Have a decko at the general site and reports. How many times do you see a reply like :-

nice catch mate !

:)

good one

I agree,


etc etc etc .................Bah.

Now look at the responses here. Lengthy replies that have people thinking, agreeing, dis-agreeing, passing on info, offering solutions and suggestions.

This IS the right forum, me thinks ! and I am enjoying it.

One thing though, sometimes it is really hard to put into words the exact meaning of what one is trying to say and the tone in which it is meant. Good to see people using the smilies to assist with this.

Cheers Phill

[Derek_Bullock]

I'm with you Phil #;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[BAIT_MAN]

Me to mate ;)

[Gazza]

Me 3 Phil ;D

p.s. the word you(s) needed wasn't "harvest"......
EXPLOITATION ;)
i.e. under ,or fully, or OVER-exploited 8-)

[webby]

I meant every word i said, no need for smilies, as i dont think its a smilieying matter, and even if it was blunt to the point, if you start codeling people you'll get no where.
This is serious business and we need serious people to obtain the objective.
regards

[Lucky_Phill]

[smiley=angryfire.gif] [smiley=argue.gif] [smiley=furious.gif] [smiley=furious2.gif] [smiley=rifle.gif] [smiley=smash.gif] [smiley=wut.gif] [smiley=thumbsdown.gif]

are all smilies that reinforce the seriousness of our words and thoughts.

They are just another tool for expression in the world of the written word.

Yes Brian, we know it is serious, more serious than most believe.

Cheers Phill

[karana]

Interesting thread. Perhaps my reply should be headed "I Refuse to Get of My Bum."

The whole discussion relating to recreational fishing especially the contributions by those in power is a joke. Much of the so called evidence put forward for the further control of recreational fishing is a joke. Much of the government expressions of concern about recreational fishing impact is based purely on knee jerk reactions to emotiional input.

The cards are marked in advance. Try and put forward an argument based on reality and you will be shunted into the background unless you fall into line with those who want to curb and further curtail recreational fishing.

It would seem, other than those government employees who hope for quick progess upwards and therefore nod in the direction of government policy, real or propsed, that recreational fisherman listened to fall into two distinct groups.

1. Those who profess by membership of some organisation to speak for recreational fisherman. These people are often folks who have the opportunity to fish on a very regular basis and thus any increase in restrictions have very little impact in their overall fishing life.
2. The 'ordinary' recreational fisherman who it seems are vast in numbers but the only other vast they have is the ability to bitch and complain about 'lack' of fish or to bemaon the so called 'fact' that fishing was better in the old days. They of course have the numbers on any carefully worded 'survey' that may surface from time to time. These 'surveys' are constantly referred to by those who would increase controls on recreational fishing.

For those who would put forward arguments against further controls by placing solid and long researched data on they table they find that this data and research is often ridiculed by other so called 'experts' as incomplete, inaccurate (based on what I don't know) or the simple statement that these are not the findings of the majority of recreational fishermen. The vast majority of recreational never could fish well, remember one or two good trips or bask in the writings of some fishing journalists who have to sensationalise to look good and keep the cheques rolling in.

The dismissal of this hard evidence in an off hand manner probably make those who do it feel good and allows them to be invited back to another paid for gab fest to put a tick on some new 'initiative' that is nothing more than a further restriction on recreational fishing.

A couple of minor points.

1. Recreational Catch V Commercial Catch.
I was surprised to read here and elsewhere that one of the reasons for the apparent increase of recreational catch compared with commercial catch is a reason for unbridled concern. Ummm if commercial fishing has been substantially curtailed in many areas and recreational fishing has increased due to increased population then the recreational catch will make up a higher proportion of the total catch in those areas. Wow this must be a surprise to some I guess. It is of course simple mathematics although I have this increased percentage argument used as a reason the further curtail recreational fishing. I guess you can fool a large proportion of people most of the time.
2. The Ugly Fisherman Story.
There are always stories of the ugly fisherman trotted out. In every thing we do there are always bad examples and there is no difference in the recreational fishing area. Yes some fisherman ignore simple nicities but in 99.99% of cases these 'ignorings' are not a major crime by any means and in fact are so minor that only a fervant arctivist looking for a 'cause' could possibly get emotional about them. The vasy majority of fisherman are considerate. More is the pity that we never hear many good stories but that is apparently the way of the world these days.

So with the cards marked in advance I will sit on my bum and watch from the sidelines in some amazement as the various stories on why we should have more controls unfold and will look carefully at the names of the people and organisations that support these controls and smile. A free beer, a sandwich or two and trappings of power do wonders for some people's egos. In fact these cheap trinkets assist them in selling out reasonableness. Nothing has changed since peddling dollars and privileges for the trappings of influence, read cowtowing obience for that last statement, became part of the life of political skullduggery, lies and thuggery.

[wayne_cook]

Getting complicated.
Starting to forget whos side i'm on.
Many valid points on both sides.
What am I saying "SIDES"
Thought we were all working for the same cause. "sustainable fishing"
Get it right before it's lost to everyone.

[dfox]

I read most of these reports as do many others and take on much of the information they contain. Usually i dont reply as i have nothing constructive to add, im sure many others do likewise.
Ive grown up in a family that contains both rec fisherman and pro's. Ive seen family members split over fishing related matters, brothers who will never talk to one another again over stupid single minded attitudes.
This thread is related to the fact that there are groups out there trying to stop "ALL" of us from fishing.
Panther has raised the issues and asked what we are doing about it! and what happens? we are argueing over pro verse rec crap again!
Stop argueing with one another, all recs and pros refer to yourself as "fisherman" and do your little bit to help where and when you can.
Im may only be a little fish in this fight but watch out ive got poisoness spines...foxy

[MulletMan]

BOING!

[Gbanger]

kudos to you pp for starting a thread that has put some 'fire in the bellies' and given some of us some food for thought...

i have only just come across this thread, and it will definately inspire me to ATLEAST take more notice of the political side of things... whereas prior to now it was something i never worried about... in saying that, its a little disappointing that fishing IS and will continue to be a political issue.

even if people dont reply or really care, atleast they know it is an issue that their peers are thinking and concerned about... which is definately better than nothing...

[cuzzamundi]

great topic once again panther!

gday lucky phil,

you must have a killer vocabulary to congratulate your fellow fisher mates on their catch without using some of your #abovementioned examples!!! that's just the point, i feel pride in seeing some of my 'ausfish mates' pull in ripper catches, and yeah, i do feel the need to sometimes reply with a simple, yet very warranted 'great catch mate' etc etc. #as you are a moderator, i feel comments such as that coming from you may do this site, on which you are an integral and valued part, a major disservice. everyone should feel free to post what they feel is worthy - so long as it's within the guidelines of course! having 'nouse' isn't just about lengthy responses. i do believe i've read countless threads under general and saltwater that have incited equal amounts of thought, agreement, disagreement, solutions etc. i just wanted to get that across. this site is fantastic though, whichever way you look at it. Go the fishing party next election!!!

cuzza

[shayned]

I'm fairly new here but some of the things I've been witnessing in the areas I fish have been niggling at me for a while. Recently another thread like this got me a little hot under the collar and I wrote two emails to my local member at Kallangur Ken H. outlining my concerns. On the last one I even suggested that a politician showing some concern and action on these issues would attract an increase in votes due to the number of fishing households in Queensland. Of course this would have to balanced by a whole range of policies on other issues eg health, employment ect. . I even suggested if he wanted to take on a leadership role he should join this very forum, identify himself and give himself the opportunity to gain feedback directly from your average voting rec. fisherman and find out first hand the strength of concern that exists.

Almost a month has passed since my first email and I still eagerly await a response of any type. So now sitting on my desk is a completed membership form for the fishing party, not owning a cheque book it will wait until I can pop into the post office(hopefully next week) do a money order and send it off.( Being able to do this via credit card would make it a lot quicker for myself at least.) I have never done anything like this before and where this will end up leading to who knows?

To answer you PP the apathy can be shaken off but will enough of us do it and soon enough who knows?

[fishingjew]

Well you got me thinking and realizing how deep my head has been in the sand . A very good read. but dont think its not sinking in it is and what to do about it. There is probably a lot of people like me who wont wade in to a to a post as there are others who are more informed. I for one have learned more on the plight of rec fishing and on other issues that i did not know existed. I do know where my vote will be going next time the fishing party

[flatstrap]

Just to add to the mix of this discussion:

Why should pro fishermen be treated differently from any other resource harvester?
If the pro's continue unsustainable and utterly indefensible fishing practices, they should GET OUT of the industry. The practices I specifically refer to are:
a) netting during spawning b) deep trawling using steel balls on the bottom of the nets that destroy ALL structure on the sea floor to spook the bottom feeders to the nets c) massive amounts of bycatch that gets dumped eventually

It's simply a numbers game. Keep taking more than you replace and you'll end up with ZERO, nada, zilch!

Just because it's a livelihood is no excuse to keep it going. In parallel, if I invented a car that maimed people in vast numbers, emitted noxious poisons; would this excuse permit me to continue because it's my livelihood?

The livelihood of a LOT more people will be destroyed when the fishing degrades to a level that it's just not worth the effort to launch the boat. Think intra state tourism; boat & tackle sales, 4X4's and `SUV's, local economies along the seaboard will wither if you take away the nation's most participated activity. I don't want to catch everything, but it would be nice to have a couple of edible recognised table fish for dinner at the end of a fishing day...flatstrap