PDA

View Full Version : Be careful what you catch



fishingjew
23-06-2006, 02:30 AM
Found this jem while researching the east australian current

Half a ton of mustard gas was dumped 25 nautical miles east of cape moreton on the 23 january 1970
At 450 fathoms other chemical munitions at other sites up and down the coast

Hate to think what happens when they start to leak!


www.hydro.gov.au/n2m/dumping/cwa/chemical.pdf

charleville
23-06-2006, 11:27 AM
Hate to think what happens when they start to leak!

The snapper will taste spicy. ;D

Az
23-06-2006, 11:28 AM
interesting read... :-?
you learn something new everyday :-?

our forefathers have a lot to answer for!

Az
23-06-2006, 11:28 AM
Hate to think what happens when they start to leak!

The snapper will taste spicy. #;D


;D ;D

fishingjew
23-06-2006, 03:26 PM
Did a bit more serching on this and came up with a list of chemicals that have been dumped at sea even 44 gal drums of cyanide >:(


http://www.hydro.gov.au/n2m/dumping/cwa/chemical.xls

http://www.deh.gov.au/coasts/pollution/dumping/history/history.html

tunaman
23-06-2006, 05:44 PM
Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best intentions. When will we ever learn. (chemicals) If we dont stop screwing with this ocean it's going to kill us very slowly.
Cancer is on the rise i wonder why.



signed
tunaman >:(

Spaniard_King
23-06-2006, 06:45 PM
Makes you wonder what has been dumped and not recorded :o :o :o

Garry

fishingjew
23-06-2006, 07:16 PM
I suppose one good thing i found on this site is a list of ships that have been scuttled with
latitue dms and longitude dms

Just count how many eyes and tails they have first? :o

http://www.deh.gov.au/coasts/pollution/dumping/history/appendix-f.html

fishingjew
23-06-2006, 07:25 PM
yea soon they might have more than one lump :-?



Hate to think what happens when they start to leak!

The snapper will taste spicy. #;D

tunaman
23-06-2006, 08:49 PM
We maybe seeing three eyed fish like the simsons, or worse our children
I think AC/DC said it well!
we,re on a highway to hell?





signed tunaman :-X

madmix
23-06-2006, 09:13 PM
Hi AZ,

Nice one mate

cheers Mick

fishingjew
23-06-2006, 09:53 PM
Makes you think? pic of dump sites of wa coast

The largest recorded fish kill in Australian history occurred in southern Australia between late 1998 and early 1999. Huge numbers of dead Australian Pilchards (Sardinops sagax) were found on the sea surface, on the sea floor, and along beaches in southern Western Australia.

Australian Pilchards are commonly found in bays and coastal waters across southern Australia. Pilchards support purse-seine fisheries in southern Western Australia, South Australia and Victoria. Ten years ago the pilchard population was high and they were fished as an ' on-demand' fishery, relatively independently of the population.

There have been two major pilchard kills in the last five years. The first kill in 1995 originated near the Eyre Peninsula in South Australia then progressed west and east around southern Australia (Gaughan et al. 2000).

The origin of the episode, its fast rate of spread, apparently high mortality rate and the lack of previous comparable kills led Fletcher et al. (1997) to conclude that the disease agent was probably an exotic pathogen to which Australian Pilchards had not previously been exposed.


Dead pilchards on the coast.
Source: South Australian Research and Development Institute (Aquatic Systems).



The second mass kill originated in South Australia in early October 1998 and also spread across southern Australia over a period of seven months. The kill of pilchards on the south coast of Western Australia during early 1999 is estimated to have been at least 28 000 tonnes of mature fish. This equates to three to five years of catch at current purse-seine fishing rates, in a period of only two months (Gaughan et al. 2000).

It is estimated that this mass mortality in both South Australia and Western Australia caused the loss of about 60% of the pilchard stock in both States.

The origin of the infectious agent in Australia is still unknown. Scientists (Whittington et al. 1997) have hypothesised that a herpes virus may have been introduced via ballast water, seabirds or imported baitfish. They noted at that time that more than 10 000 tonnes of pilchards were being imported annually from California, Peru, Chile and Japan without quarantine inspection. They were fed to sea-caged Southern Bluefin Tuna near the southern extremity of the Eyre Peninsula in South Australia.

The imported pilchard hypothesis suggests that importation of untreated frozen pilchards carries a very high risk for Australian stocks of S. sagax.

Research aimed at answering some of the questions surrounding the 1995 and 1998-99 mass mortalities is under way. The mass kills have serious implications for our trade, quarantine and for the species dependent on pilchards as a source of food.

tunaman
23-06-2006, 10:41 PM
Fishingjew!
This is very frighting!So who is responceable!And dont forget about what
Spaniard king said!What about the one,s we dont know about!
There also finding large amount,s of teflon in fish and has a direct
link with very serious cancer,s.Teflon doz not degrad, it stays in your body untill you die.They said teflon will be totaly banned in 2008-9
by then it will have spread wright throught the ocean,s food chain
and wright back too us.I bet you wont look at your frying pan the same way again,and when you scratch the teflon off when your cooking,
just remember, your body can,t get rid of it!


signed tunaman :(

tunaman
24-06-2006, 01:04 PM
sorry about the above post spelling is a bit off.
Had a couple of rums while I was writing it, and forgot to do a spell check


signed
tunaman :D

tunaman
24-06-2006, 01:06 PM
this is tunamans wife
without me he cant spell for sh@t.
LOL
especially when he has had a few.


signed
tunadoll ;D

fishingjew
24-06-2006, 01:47 PM
October 31, 2005
As World War II drew to a close, the Army was faced with scant storage space in ordnance depots at home and huge chemical weapons stockpiles overseas.

The solution: Dump the weapons off the coast of whatever country they were in.

The result: U.S.-made weapons of mass destruction litter the coasts of more than 11 countries - including Italy, France, India, Australia, the Philippines, Japan, Denmark and Norway, according to a 2001 Army report recently released to the Daily Press.

The chemical weapons remain there to this day. And they're extremely dangerous.

Some of them have washed up on shore or been dredged up by fishermen. At least 200 people have been seriously injured over the years.

The Army now admits that it secretly dumped at least 64 million pounds of chemical warfare agents, as well as more than 400,000 mustard gas-filled bombs and rockets, off the United States - and much more than that off other countries, a Daily Press investigation has found.

The Army can't say where all the dumpsites are. There might be more.

The Army is missing years of records on where it secretly dumped surplus chemical weapons from the close of World War II until 1970, when the practice was halted. It hasn't reviewed any records of post-World War I at-sea chemical weapons dumping but knows the practice was commonplace at the time.

More than 30 U.S.-created chemical weapon dumpsites are scattered off other countries, the newly released Army report indicated. It was created by the chemical weapon historical research and response team at Aberdeen Proving Ground in Maryland.

"It's a disaster looming - a time bomb, say," said Dr. Gert Harigel, a well-respected physicist active in Geneva who's been active in international chemical weapons issues. "The scientific community knows very little about it. It scares me a lot."

The United States isn't legally bound to do anything about the dangers that it created in the oceans, whether from its own weapons it dumped or those of captured enemy stockpiles.

A 1975 treaty signed by the United States prohibits ocean dumping of chemical munitions. But it doesn't address dump zones created before the treaty was signed.

And the overseas chemical dumpsites are presumed to be in international waters, inoculating the U.S. government from legal responsibility, Peter Kaiser said. He's a spokesman for the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, based at The Hague, Netherlands.

"Legally, nothing can be done," said Harigel, a member of the Geneva International Peace Research Institute.

"But from a humanitarian point of view, they need to be pressured to do something."

At the least, Harigel said, the U.S. government should monitor the chemical dumpsites that it created and spread warnings if environmental evidence shows they're leaking.

DUMPSITES IN FIVE MORE COUNTRIES

In recent years, the Army quietly has gone through decades-old classified records and identified five other countries where U.S. chemical-laden bombs, rockets and grenades were thrown into the sea. The names of those countries remain classified, but records at the National Archives provide hints.

The Daily Press uncovered an Aug. 24, 1944, memo - classified at the time as "restricted" - that revealed in which other Allied countries the United States kept stockpiles of chemical weapons during World War II.

Those countries include New Zealand, China, the former Soviet Union and unidentified "Latin American countries."


the good old yanks!

tunaman
24-06-2006, 03:10 PM
Its sound like the Australian government know just to well that its there,
and the conditions of the drums there in. Our fore fathers have made
a terrible mess and in this situation can not be cleaned up. There hoping good old mother nature will take care of it. Dam the US! all they are is bullies of the planet. If you look at the big picture, this planet is just rotting away right before our eyes, and im afraid we are just going to have to live with it and hope medical science can find a way to reverse the effects of these chemicals.

signed
tunaman :-[

fishingjew
24-06-2006, 07:03 PM
Australia: Biological weapons
The Australian Department of Defence formed the New Weapons and Equipment Development Committee soon after the end of WW2. Documents in the National Archives, declassified in 1998, revealed the extent to which Australia considered the development of biological weapons in the 1940s and 50s.
Secretary of the Department F.G. Sheddon sought the advice of leading microbiologist Sir Frank Macfarlane Burnet in December 1946. Burnet was Director of the Walter and Eliza Hall Institute for Medical Research, and won the Nobel Prize for medicine in 1960. Sheddon asked whether Australia had the capability to develop biological weapons that would work in tropical Asia without spreading to Australia's more temperate population centres.

Burnet wrote a comprehensive memo to the Department of Defence in which he said Australia should develop biological weapons that would work in tropical Asia without spreading to Australia's more temperate population centres.


"Specifically to the Australian situation, the most effective counter-offensive to threatened invasion by overpopulated Asiatic countries would be directed towards the destruction by biological or chemical means of tropical food crops and the dissemination of infectious disease capable of spreading in tropical but not under Australian conditions."

In a meeting with Sheddon in January 1947, Burnet argued that Australia's temperate climate could give it a significant military advantage.

"The main contribution of local research so far as Australia is concerned might be to study intensively the possibilities of biological warfare in the tropics against troops and civil populations at a relatively low level of hygiene and with correspondingly high resistance to the common infectious diseases."

Burnet was invited to join the chemical and biological warfare subcommittee of the New Weapons and Equipment Development Committee in September 1947. The committee prepared a report, of which Burnet was the principal author, entitled Note on War from a Biological Angle suggesting that biological warfare could be a powerful weapon to help defend a sparsely populated Australia. The report urged the government to encourage Australian universities to research areas of biological science of relevance to biological weapons.

"The main strategic use of biological warfare may well be to administer the coup de grace to a virtually defeated enemy and compel surrender in the same way that the atomic bomb served in 1945. Its use has the tremendous advantage of not destroying the enemy's industrial potential which can then be taken over intact. Overt biological warfare might be used to enforce surrender by psychological rather than direct destructive measures." (Note on War from a Biological Angle)

The minute of a meeting in February 1948 note that Burnet "was of the opinion that if Australia undertakes work in this field it should be on the tropical offensive side rather than the defensive."
Burnet and a delegation of the chemical and biological warfare subcommittee visited the UK in 1950 to examine British chemical and biological warfare research. In a report of the visit Burnet concluded that "In a country of low sanitation the introduction of an exotic intestinal pathogen, e.g. by water contamination, might initiate widespread dissemination."


"Introduction of yellow fever into a country with appropriate mosquito vectors might build up into a disabling epidemic before control measures were established."

The subcommittee recommended that "the possibilities of an attack on the food supplies of S-E Asia and Indonesia using B.W. agents should be considered by a small study group".
It 1951 it recommended that "a panel reporting to the chemical and biological warfare subcommittee should be authorised to report on the offensive potentiality of biological agents likely to be effective against the local food supplies of South-East Asia and Indonesia".

The activities of the chemical and biological warfare subcommittee were scaled back soon after, as Prime Minister Robert Menzies was more interested in trying to acquire nuclear weapons.

Australia signed the Biological Weapons Convention in 1972 and chairs the Australia Group.

tunaman
24-06-2006, 11:49 PM
Would it be fare to say,that chemicals affect the sea animals ability
to fight off infection? A few fish I have caught some fish that have had a sore
on its body.The sore is red and fleshy and seen it more on freshwater
fish than salt. or is it just a normal cancer or may skin cancer?





signed tunaman

fishingjew
25-06-2006, 12:06 AM
Well i had know idea just what was out from our shores! I have heard of trawlers pulling up ammunition shells of cape moreton but not the extent of the dump sites all round australia or even new that it included chemical warfare agents and drums of chemical waste how naive?

How many ticking time bombs are out there?

What were these people thinking and who allowed this and what are future consequences?

Cyanide,pesticides b##*dy hell [smiley=angryfire.gif]

Camo
25-06-2006, 12:06 PM
Tunaman, your dead right mate. But the Yanks aren't the only bullies, and they are not the only ones doing it. What about the huge nuclear mess the Russians have made their of their marine environment, and what happened to all their chemical weapons.

China would be just as bad, except they keep everything secret. Western European nations are notorious for dumping their crap everywhere. The French are probably the worst. They like to dump there stuff as far away from France as possible, usually in struggling small Pacific nations. That's in between testing/exploding their nuclear bombs in our region.

The Japs are probably the biggest bullies. They use their economic might to get what they want. They don't give a stuff about world opinion and will continue to rape the oceans of the world regardless. What do you think this means for the future of fish stocks all over the Pacific? Will our grand kids be able catch fish?

Camo

tunaman
25-06-2006, 07:11 PM
Camo mate!You are spot on. All the world leaders of the past have
caused major damage in one form or another, but now they are aware that they could be causing there own demise. As for fish stocks for the future it's anyones guess. But one thing I know for sure is we will live the last of the good life.



signed
tunaman :D

fishingjew
29-06-2006, 01:15 AM
An interesting read called the deadliness below


http://www.shanegarton.com/Capra_7_Art_Studio/Htmls/environmental.htmls/enviro_htmls/deadliness_below.html

INDULGENCE
29-06-2006, 08:24 AM
The one thing I remember about the 2 pilchard fish kills,by the so called herpes virus was when we scooped them off the surface and tried to use them for bait.
They didnt catch fish,they were not oily as normal and nothing would eat them.
whilst I dont believe in conspiracy theories I have often wondered what did kill the pilchards.
wally

Dory4.1
29-06-2006, 01:00 PM
Its the old saying, out of sight, out of mind. Once it dissapears below the surface, its someone elses problem... How wrong can they be! >:(

jackson_4300
29-06-2006, 03:02 PM
my old man use to tell, still does,

We are like a cancer to the earth.
slowly we will take it over and then what?

sharky789
29-06-2006, 04:18 PM
i reckon screw their necks and dump it in their yards and pour it in their water tank

tunaman
29-06-2006, 09:22 PM
Fishingjew
They cant still be doing this? Maybe I have too much time on my hands,
and I do think a little deeper than most, but I cant help thinking of
tomorrow than just live for today, and tomorrow will come!
But at what cost.




signed tunaman

fishingjew
29-06-2006, 10:53 PM
Tunaman

Sea dumping was stopped in 1981 now only dreg spoil is dumped with permit .

I posted this as i thought there would be quite a few like me who did not know
what was actually out from our coasts.

The goverment of that time who where reresponsible have a lot to answer for
and i wonder if there was any discharge whether we would be told the truth

here we are talking about sustainable fishing where was it then no thought
of the impact it could have on fishies or people. Then or future

flatstrap
30-06-2006, 09:09 AM
Just to add to the discussion,

What you are actually witnessing is the uncovering of HARD evidence of disgraceful actions by the world powers during the post WW2 era (and continuing). In the climate of war and hostilities, virually anything was 'fair enough' in defense of what is ours. Massive development and production of lethal poisons dumped in the international open sewers (oceans) in steel 44 gallon drums! We Ausfishers know how hard it is to control corrosion of our boat trailers, so get the picture of thousands of 44gal dums in the ocean rottting away and spilling the deadly contents...

The ocean and its fragile ecosystem is the 'canary in the cage' of the state of health of the planet! The symptoms of disease are huge fish kills, loss of the world's coral areas, global and sea temperature rises. Recently, a huge chunk of ice broke off Antarctica that was 180km long and was drifting and melting in the Great Southern Ocean. Is this really a surprise? Did this condition just suddenly materialise and surprise us all? Sounds grim and it is.

I will contribute more as this thread develops. Happy for all to comment further...flatstrap

major-defect
01-07-2006, 06:26 AM
I remember some leaking chemical drums left by the armed forces having to be removed sometime in the 80s from the inside of Moreton.

gunnabuild1
02-07-2006, 09:49 PM
People hate to be cynical but this hasn't stopped probably wont in the future human nature being what it is.I like to think the best of people but so often they prove me wrong.After all what does that bloke up the road do with his old sump oil, after all its only a couple of litres wont do any harm if he just dumps it somewhere.Sad really and bloody frightening.
WHAT DO WE TELL OUR GRANDKIDS? It's only the scale that's different.

tunaman
04-07-2006, 01:10 AM
There is not alot we can do about it,the mess is allready here.And what
flatstrap said in his post is dead set true. The planet is at braking point,
and a new cycle in the worlds climate is allready underway.
Its just a shame, we humans go out and have so much fun in our day to day lives, that we forget what we,re having fun on. The planet is going to get hot and dry and these people with there beach front homes will
say to there grandkids, look over there! under the 10metres of water
is were we used to live! Oh! and dont get to close to the sea, its
very poisoness this time of year.



signed tunaman