Two new dams are coming

[Louis]

G'day All,


I caught the tail end of the news last night and was happy to hear that the government is building two new dams.

Apparently one is going down out Beaudesert way and the other out towards Gympie way.

Anyway it is good to see.

Hopefully some good fishing and camping await us in the near future.



Louis

[Big_unit]

Yeah at the expense of some very good friends of mine near Gympie, it will cost them a multi million dollar family farming operation. As if the deregulation of the dairy industry wasnt a big enough kick in the guts, they decide to grow the operation in preparation for thier son's to begin thier futures and WHAMMO they are going to lose the lot ( 600+ acres, brand new $500,000 Dairy, 4 homes, Long term planning such as all the years of tree planting, erosion protection, river ecology programs which they implemented at thier own expense + all the farm infrastructure.) There is a whole lot more I cant say at present. I really think this is the wrong place to put the dam. Its so typical of Beattie to emphasise on crisis solutions to problems which can be dealt with in other ways.

Cheers
James

[Big_unit]

7000+ Hectares of premium Queensland farming dirt will end up under water. The economic loss to the state will be huge, just in terms of lost production. The people of the Mary Valley are going to fight Beattie, they have everything to lose if they dont.

Beattie MUST GO at the next election.

Cheers
James

[choppa]

james,, agree whole heartedly mate,,,,, ya know what i find funny,,, we are experiencing a drought in qld and the se corner has restrictions in place all over,,, here on bribie like elsewhere, you can water one day after 7pm,, and not the next etc etc,,,

so what happens, a lot of people say,, i know,, i'll buy a tank,, then i can water whenever i want,,,,

now speaking to those in the trade,, stormwater tanks have never been so popular,, they are even building new suburbs with ""community"" tanks installed, so everyone can water whenever they want,,,

this is great,,, all this expense is outlayed,, people are happy,,councils for gods sake even give you a rebate on your rates,,,,, lets rejoice, i've got a tank.........

(just have to wait now for the rain to fill it) :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[

[Feral]

Well we need the dams, there is always someone who loses out. The Gympie dam also has the supposed advantage of flood proofing Gympie.

Your friends would probably do better spending their time and effort on getting the farm properly valued, and setting up a lobby group to ensure they all get reasonable compensation.


But I believe they should go big, dam one of the real big rivers and pipe the water to where it needs to go. They should also join up all the dams on the eastern sea board, maybe even take over Cubby stations dams and pipe in water from there. The Fitroy in Rocky has a huge catchment, that would make for a decent size dam, They have already bunged a big dam on the burnett, add it to the water supply instead of giving the water to the farmers.

the Baroon Pocket, Hinze and Leslie harison dams are either overflowing or near enough to full capacity yet the residents who get supplied from these areas are subjected to water restrictions. Yet everytime it rains in these areas the water just goes over the spillway. They should join up all the dams and as soon as one hits 70% pump water to lower dams.

But if they announce a couple of new dams, they dont have to do anything before the next election, but can claim they have "fixed the problem", if they then get lucky and it rains, the it will be "well we dont have to build the dams after all".

[TinarooTriumph]

Interesting topic fella's.

From where i see it, you guys down South need as many dams as possible, just look at Bjelke Peterson Dam, its at what 8% or something?. (when i mean down south i mean say Rockhampton downwards.) As Feral said there is always going to be someone who is going to be very much affected, and its a pity that it has to come to that. I heard a story tonight on the news about a tunnel or some s### thats being planned in Brisbane/wherever, and that about 20/30 families are going to have to sell up shop and move. Tough break. But theres not a hell of alot you can do about it really. You can yell and scream and light flags on fire but at the end of the day when this government here in QLD says its going to do something they will god dam do it alright thats for sure.

Big_Unit - I could shake your hand, myself and i think everyone on the Atherton Tablelands could. A few of you might know that Peter Beattie spent most of his childhood years and all that on the Atherton Tablelands, and use to praise the place - until he became premier. Since he has became premier, he has seemingly forgotten about our region, the Tablelands. He has angered thousands of people with some of his crazy laws around the area that i live in e.g. Riding horses through national forest, therefor making us ride on main roads (yes, main roads i tell you!), i could go on all night i really could.

Im not into all of this voting/polictical stuff, im not even old enough to register a vote and have my say, and hell i probably dont even know what im talking about. But i think a large majority of people would agree that QLD is the premier state of Australia. And that Australia is undoubtively the best country in the world?. So what does that make QLD - the best state in the world possibly? And i think Peter Beattie has made it was it is (set aside some luricrous decisions). Who could take over from where he leaves off?. Well thats my 2 bob worth, hope ya's see where im coming from? :o

TinarooTriumph 8-)

[DaveSue_Fishos_Two]

Yeah keep building dams....what a great idea! Let's stop or at least restrict the natural flow to the ocean! Yeah... let's keep bringing people to Qld and bugger the infrastracture or the long term ramifications.!! The dam on the Boyne River should be a lesson to all. But hark and alas the government never learnt by a major river silting up at the mouth etc etc. Let's keep putting primary productive country underwater so that we can all live in surburbier. How easy it is!

What a load of crap!!!!!!!!!!

If you can't feed the people, don't invite them to the kitchen................stop this population explosion of people to Qld when they can't be watered!!

You're right James, Beattie has to go!!! But who the hell do we look to to replace him?? No-one is prepared to desalinate, regardless of the costs. We have been told for decades that "it's too expensive to desalinate". Are we all supposed to keep believing this for ever more when some countries and islands are already desalinating?? I'm not a tree hugger but I've had an absolute gutful of the environmental vandals that were once so critical of Bjelke- Petersen. When do we go?? Who do we turn to??

Cheers

Dave

[2iar]

I'm certainly no expert on this, and don't claim to have the answers. You guys have been here a lot longer than me...

I was reading an interesting article recently about our supposed "drought". Basically, what it was saying is that rainfall's been a *little* below average, and therefore can hardly be defined as a true drought. That's just pretty much just how much rain we get in SE QLD (sorry I can't remember exactly where this came from, it put it a lot better than I'm doing here, but that was the crux of it). It reminds me of "what if this is as good as it gets?".

I agree wholeheartedly, but to a to a point, about the population explosion having a massive effect on water levels and consumption, you only have to look at the residential boom in the Brisbane CBD to do your sums (that's a lot of dunnies per square acre compared to yesteryear).

But (and I would say "but" being an immigrant myself :)) it strikes me that arbitrarily reclaiming land, be it pastoral farmland, arable farmland or whatever, in itself can't be the answer.

Building dams *where it rains* is IMO. Are Gympie and Beaudesert really the right areas to be looking?

If this costs a bit to be done properly, once and for all, so be it. I'd prefer to pay a bit more now than put up with Hollywood Pete's (or Campbell Newman's for that matter) posturing and electioneering by attempting high-profile quick-fix solutions that'll inevitabally become a cyclical event for their successors every few decades.

Anyway, sorry for sounding so pompous, I get like that when I'm on the high horse. I'm fishing in the morning, and really should stay off the rum ::)

Good luck,
Mike

[Owen]

Building dams *where it rains* is IMO. #Are Gympie and Beaudesert really the right areas to be looking?


Well before Labor came to power in Queensland there was a study costing several million dollars done to find the best place for a dam.
It was to be located at Wolfdene.
Trouble was that the law didn't stop people buying acreage blocks up there once it was gazetted so Wayne Goss got a whole heap of votes from the people who bought there by saying that they'd stop it. I could never understand it as it was common knowledge long before it became an election issue. Either people didn't do the searches, or they just assumed they'd be able to stop it.
Goss then spent another couple of million to find an alternative location. So I guess it's been in the too hard basket for the last ten years or so.
Wolfdene IS the right spot, but it's too late now as it's now too heavily populated. :-/

cheers,
Owen

[Fishin_Dan]

james,, agree whole heartedly mate,,,,, ya know what i find funny,,, we are experiencing a drought in qld and the se corner has restrictions in place all over,,, here on bribie like elsewhere, you can water one day after 7pm,, and not the next etc etc,,,

so what happens, a lot of people say,, i know,, i'll buy a tank,, then i can water whenever i want,,,,

now speaking to those in the trade,, stormwater tanks have never been so popular,, they are even building new suburbs with ""community"" tanks installed, so everyone can water whenever they want,,,

this is great,,, all this expense is outlayed,, people are happy,,councils for gods sake even give you a rebate on your rates,,,,, lets rejoice, i've got a tank.........

(just have to wait now for the rain to fill it) :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[

My Uncle is a builder/cabinet maker on the sunshine coast, and we were talking about the rain tanks. He's building a place in a new estate, and by law, all houses in new estates MUST have the rain tank.

All seems good and well...

Until he then told me that yes they fill up from the rain, however when they are not full, they fill up from the mains water supply!

[goddy100]

I lived in the NW for two many years to remember, and when it came to water it was all well, live out there deal with it. Now all the southern areas, have to deal with it, so now its a big deal and new dams have to be built. Bad luck I say, if you live down there you have to learn to cope with the water restirictions that a lot of other people have had to deal with for years. When LARRY hit up here some writers in newspapers said well, live in a cyclone area, learn to live with cyclones. Well, live in a major city with water problems, learn to live with it.

[Graham_N_Roberts]

This nonsense about using rainwater tanks to water the garden has really got to stop. I mean ... people, most tanks are 4.5 kltr (1000 gals), some 10 kltr. How long do you think this will last on a garden. Not long.

I use rain water from a 10k concrete tank for household use, and that runs out in no time at all if we get no rain for a couple of months.

No for building dams. "Yep, block up every river on the land matey. That'll stop the water getting to the sea, hey".

Result? Environmental degredation of course. No flow means no fish migration, no breading, no feeding, no little fish growing to be big fish to migrate up stream ..... Hey, hang on .... no more fishin'.

Yeh ... go on... put in another dam.

[teach]

Building dams *where it rains* is IMO. #Are Gympie and Beaudesert really the right areas to be looking?


Well before Labor came to power in Queensland there was a study costing several million dollars done to find the best place for a dam.
It was to be located at Wolfdene.
Trouble was that the law didn't stop people buying acreage blocks up there once it was gazetted so Wayne Goss got a whole heap of votes from the people who bought there by saying that they'd stop it. #I could never understand it as it was common knowledge long before it became an election issue. #Either people didn't do the searches, or they just assumed they'd be able to stop it.
Goss then spent another couple of million to find an alternative location. So I guess it's been in the too hard basket for the last ten years or so.
Wolfdene IS the right spot, but it's too late now as it's now too heavily populated. #:-/

cheers,
Owen

Wolffdene is the right spot, but National/Liberal used as an election agneda to win power and therefore it got canned.......It can't be used now as the cost of buying is insurmountable as it is suburbs there now, not acerages anymore.......But as short-sightedness wins on most occasions, we are now with a water problem, rather than a large dam that will fill easily as it is so close to the coastline......

[snakecatcher]

One other thing that has not been mentioned so far in this post is that the Mary River is one of the last places that the Queensland Lungfish can be found and building the dam will inevitably cause this unique species to decline and could lead to its ultimate extinction.

We do need to sort out the water problem and building new dams is certainly one of them but there are other ways and means - water tanks, fixing all the leaks in the water system which wastes incredible amounts of water each day, educating people that lawns do not need to be watered (we never water our garden and will only put plants in that are drought tolerant and it all grows bloody well!!!), recycling which has been done for many years in Europe and of course desalination which is an option although very energy hungry and therefore not as enviromentally friendly as it seems.

[4x4frog]

I actually heard an interseting spin on this on 4BC the other day. During a news reort I heard a quote from a greenie(and I had to agree) about slowing the interstate migration down to a trickle so that our impact on our environment would lessen too. Cudos to him, I have always thought this, less southereners moving here is a win win for us all. ;D

More seriously though, with the amount of run-off we always see form summer storms here and up notrh surely in todays tecnologiaclly advanced world there has to be someway we can start to harvest all the runoff and store it for use. I have heard several people on 4BC ask if it's possible to pipe water from the notrh back to us??? There has to be an answer somewhere.

[maxx]

It is good to see more dams coming.

Some extra places to camp and fish.


Louis: If you are looking for a good camp site at a dam try Wivenhoe.




Maxx

[The_Walrus]

One other thing that has not been mentioned so far in this post is that the Mary River is one of the last places that the Queensland Lungfish can be found and building the dam will inevitably cause this unique species to decline and could lead to its ultimate extinction

What a load of c@%p. The chance of the queensland lungfish becoming extinct is negligible as it has been spread far and wide in south-east Qld, Somerset, Wivenhoe, Brisabane river, North pine dam just to name a few. Lung fish live quite well in our dams.

The Mary River cod is more endangered and that's only cause the government won't properly fund places like the hatchery at Lake McDonald near Cooroy.

Luc

[PinHead]

are you guys serious? you want to stop people moving to Qld...this is Australia people...a country where people have the freedom to live where they choose...as for the dams..well, we sure do need them. As for the people that will be affected..I don't recall any of them down protesting for the people that had their properties resumed for the SE Freeway or the M1 etc etc etc. As long as they get fair compenation then that is the way the law is written and has been for a very long time..the Govt. can resume almost anyones property for infratructure works...they take the chances on the electoral backlash.

[Bill_Klein]

i reckon ( and ive said this to a lot of people ) dam up Nambour it is already a hole of a place so should hold a lot of water

and plenty of structure for fishing

what do you think GUYS

[Bill_Klein]

;D

[Poseidon]

So perhaps we all need to don sarongs and sit around the camp fire and sing 'koom bah yah' and prey for divine intervention, that'll work.

How does one propose to curb the population growth in SEQ, as PinHead said we remain a free country.

Unlike ourselves, the government of the day needs to look twenty to fifty years down the track and provide the infrastructure so the population can survive. If a few dairy farms underwater in the next 10 years means that QLD remains inhabitable over this and the following centuries then its a small price to pay. The same concerns would have been raised prior to construction of any of our dams and thankfully the powers to be kept them on track. Imagine today if there was no Wivenhoe, no Somerset, no Tinaroo etc etc. Sure would be a little thirsty at the moment.

Sure, vote the current government out and replace them with another who will have to make the same tough decision about water for SEQ later down the track.

Regards Cameron.

[Custaro]

Simple fact is we need more available water. We might not need it now but down the track with current population growth it will be a necessity. Heaps of work has been done investigating many possibilities. Economic and environmental impact studies have been done. Current Water Resource Plans, WRP's are almost entirely written by the community. The government spends a lot of time consulting representatives from all avenues.

Take for example Post Winter Flow in the Fitzroy. This is a release from all storages to allow the first occurring flow event to completely pass through the system. From a fish perspective, very important. From irrigator perspective currently on a low allocation, very hard to swallow. However, it is the storages on the system that provide the irrigator a much better deal for most of the time. There has to be some give and take. The importance lies in the balance.

The WRPs will be reviewed every 10yrs to make sure the attempted balance is working...if not, changes will be made accordingly.

It is sad to think that many of us remain selfish about water restrictions in the SE corner. The whole "My dam is full" attitude is very petty. What if one of our storages does fail?? Where do we get the water from? And the water that does spill from those full storages is providing the down stream ecology a much needed boost that benefits us all as anglers in the SE corner.

And on the bright side of life with regards to storages, after reading many recent articles about Awoonga Dam I can't wait to fish it again. Last time I fished it was during the annual catfish cull and there was a $500 prize for catching a barra!! Less than 10yrs down the track and it is now attracting anglers from all over the country to go do battle with some of the many monsters that now live there.

[Louis]

RE: The new dams to be built



Has anyone got any suggestions as to what should be stocked in them.

Mangrove Jacks and/or Barra if they can take the weather might be the go I feel.




Louis

[hussy]

stock them with lungfish

[tincanpeter]

Feral
Cubbie's so called dams are in fact large ring tanks. The Soil dozed up from inside forms the tanks bank which would be possiably only 5 metres high. The balance of the tank is left in its natural state to prevent large wave action. Therfore the deepest part of the dam is where the soil is taken for the banks. The majority is possably only 2 metres deep. Cubbies tanks are large ,one I know of was about 21 k's around. This is necessary, evaporation is very high due to the shallow depth. These tanks are a huge refuge for bird & wildlife
The surface area of these tanks MAY be larger then Sydney Harbour but the water volume would be no where near Mr Beattie's claims. If you believe Mr Beattie or his Governments claims, I feel sorry for you.
Don't forget that the Mary river watershed is not far far from the Brisbane river's, so there is no instant fix and will only be used in cases of long term drought as we now have.
They would be better daming a river in tropics that feeds into the gulf and pipe that water west of the range to The Somerset dam, it could also be used for supplement dams (in drought times) Like the dam i.e Kingaroy etc.
The Gympie dam would destroy good farming lands only to store water incase the current dams fail again. This is a normal Beattie reponse.

[timbacutta]

Looking forward to see what is stocked if they build the new Mary Valley Dam. Only 5 minutes from parents place so will nice and handy when I go to visit. People have asked if their property value has gone up now they will have water views ;D.

Jeff.

[jim_farrell]

Water is the most important resource required for life to survive. We have the largest surplus we will ever see (financial Federally). Feral mentioned pipes between Queensland dams. Great idea. Even better, spend the money on a national grid so water can be pumped everywhere. How much water flowed into the ocean from cyclones in FNQ this year???

For every person moving here from sydney, there is one less in sydney. They have a water shortage however they supply thousands less every year statewide.
We have to look beyond local water for local communities. I know I'm talking big dollars, but we must look 50 years ahead. What use is a little dam built every twenty years. All this will achieve is leaving us with a scenario where all the areas suitable for dairy and the like will be underwater or turned into houses. Therefor dairy product shortage in fifty years time.

Pollies must look beyond there term ie. snowy river and ord river.

Hopping off my soapbox.
Jim

[way_out_bush]

I agree with pin head 100%.

[jack1]

In my opinion the water needed for Brisbane or S E QLD should and can be piped down from the north, be it Tully or other suitable area. If the concrete or other suitable pipes are manufactured in Aus, then the cost of the project is fully recoverable & economical viable, as apposed to polythene pipes which use imported crude oil. If the project cost 500 million dollars, its peanuts to what the mega dam at Gympie will blow out to.
Beattie has stated he is going to sell Energex & something else to fund the dam. How much will electricity tarrifs increase if this happens.
Look at the job prospects for a pipeline project, how many?, 10,000.
Who agrees with this proposal.
Cheers

[Louis]

G'day Jack1


Despite my own greedy desires to see extra dams built.

In relation to your question, "Who agrees with this proposal?"

Then I would have to say that I do.

Your statements certainly do seem to make sense.



Louis

[Jim_Tait]

There is a lesson in all of this and that is

"GROWTH FOR THE SAKE OF GROWTH IS THE PHILOSPHY OF CANCER" >:(

Nature operates on homeostasis otherwise known as ‘dynamic equilibrium’ that means that when there is growth it is only because some other part of the natural system is experiencing decay, overall systems balance out.

Humans fail to recognise that we too are part of nature. We continually seek to live beyond our limits. In any other animal population an exponential growth in population ultimately runs into controlling factors that cause the population to plateau or even ‘crash’ back to sustainable levels. Humans are ultimately governed by the same principles of ecology it is just that by using engineering and technology we have been able to put off the inevitable controls of these limiting factors. As intelligent beings we should be able to inform our society by our knowledge of ecology and make intelligent decisions to limit our population growth and associated resource consumption before it causes the collapse of ecosystems and their values that we appreciate – like fish!! If we don’t learn this lesson, mother earth will ultimately enforce her own controls and when she does it will be a lot uglier for our species and many others that will be taken out in the process.

It is time for those that are at least a little bit ecologically aware (and I’d like to think that includes most fishers) to challenge the fallacy promoted by capitalist economists that we can have growth in the material economy (and the human population that helps drive it) for ever. We know we have a finite planet and that global ecosystems are already under massive stress – its time the ‘growth is good’ paradigm was dismissed for the BS it is!! >:(

PS anybody that thinks we should be continuing to dam rivers and preventing them from flowing to the sea and piping the water around the country to support further growth in human resource consumption belongs in the last century and doesn’t understand the first thing about fisheries ecology and shouldn’t be allowed to fish until they pass ecology 101 lessons concerning the importance of unregulated flows and flood discharges for fishery productivity and recruitment!! ;)

[PinHead]

well written Jim...but..if it comes down to a new dam for water for humans as opposed to fish..I will take the dam any day.

Is there something wrong with capitalism?? I love it...definitely against the alternatives.

[Jim_Tait]

Maybe we havn't had a good enough go at defining alternatives ?? How about an economy based on natural principles of dynamic equilibrium??

and as for coming down to 'water for humans as opposed to water for fish' - why does it have to be a competition??

That is the whole point of seeking to establish a balance - it doesnt have to be a competition - if we obtaina a sustainable balance we can have both water for humans and watyer for fish - sound too radical??

Regards - Jim

[PinHead]

how would that economy work jim?

not too radical at all...but where would one start..with the increasing population there is an increasing need for fresh water

[Jim_Tait]

Stop the increasing population for a starter - in Australia's case that 'simply' means stopping imigration - without it Australia would'nt have population growth.

I know the bleeding hearts would say 'what about our social responsibilities to refugees' and the economic rationalists would say 'we need population growth to drive economic growth' - I say that at any one time there are about 25 million refugees in the world so why pick and choose who we can take when we can't take all - better we work toward developing a sustainable and stable nation that then provides realistic levels of international aid and works politically through the UN to solve the strife that generates refugees - and to the economists I say we dont want (or need) growth !

How does an economy based on dynamic equilibrium work ? - I dont claim to have all the answers - its an idea rather than an established system - but based on nature I'd suggest that the decay of accumulated energy feeds growth in new systems - transferring that to our contemporary system an example could be government incentives and regulation (driven by an environmentally informed and concerned populace) leading to the recycling of capital accumulated by oil and coal corporations into new economic growth in industries concerned with developing sustainble energy systems - basically it would be about redistributing and recycling wealth (rather than the increasing divide between haves and have nots we currently see developing) but instituted through free market principles of initiative and enterprise with a good dose of ecosocialist market regulation thrown in to direct capital flows toward growth deemed ecologically beneficial and sustainable - sound possible ?? all suggestions welcome!

Regards - Jim

[PinHead]

interesting Jim..but alas..Australia needs to populate or perish..that may not be a popular thought but a true one...therefore we need migrants. Without migrants we would have a negativew population growth..only a matter of time before there are not enough people to do the work to support the nation and Aussies would die out completely.

"redistributing and recycling wealth"..sounds a bit too much along the socialist doctrines for my likings thanks...those that work hard and are careful or wise with their money become the haves...they then send some of their money to the have nots..perhaps those less intelligent..less educated..more foolish with their money etc...I know what would happen then...those that are the haves now would not work as hard because they would be sending money to the have nots therefore production in total would decrease meaning everyone would be worse off.

[Jim_Tait]

I think you missed it mate - a stable population is not perishing! We can have a stable population without imigration if not why not? and if not fix it via appropriate incentives to Australian families.

I never mentioned socialist handing out of accumulated wealth (heaven forbid) - what I suggested was good old free market enterprise and initiative (the hard workers can still get ahead) but via Government incentives and regulation that point toward capitalist profit making and employment generation in new growth industries that serve environmental and social sustainability.

There are more economic models and political doctrines that can be developed that the old two ringed circus of unhindered free market capitalism or state controlled socialism - surely there must be a viable middle path in there somewhere?

[BrandonH]

bump

[tshort]

Mary River, doesnt that flow into the Sandy Straits that has been part of RAMSAR for years and also about to be declared a national park along with all the associated restrictions on general users excluding pro fishers of course. Internationaly recognised wetlands, fragile dugong and turtle habitat, migratory bird resting area etc. etc. etc. Ive got a place in a little town on the Straits where I had to put in rain water tanks as the town will never have reticulated water, had to install personal sewerage treatment plant as it will never be sewered,and mix rediculous amounts of lime with any soil disturbed, all to protect the straits and am happy to do so. "Enviro impact studies have been done" you blokes are kidding yourselves. Why didnt the 2 consultants (one for the dam and 1 for National park) get together. Has anyone reveiwed these reports, they must contradict each other surely. A classic example of enviro impact reporting I've seen is one in favour of development within close proximity to a National park stated no significant fauna and no sign of reptiles (just 2 things), now there are beware of snake signs everywhere and uncommon species being monitored, did the developers bring them in or couldnt they see them with all that vegetation in the way? And why did rainwater tanks go out of fasion anyway, was it to fluridate the water and reduce tooth decay of a nation, what the. There is an alternative for me though, put the dam in, refund me all the money I've supposidly spent to protect this environment along with compensation for when they ban fishing in the straits which no doubt should include the Mary river, if all the "enviro impact studies" have been done of course. What a joke.
And thats my 2 cents worth.

[Jim_Tait]

Those conducting environmental impact studies are as you suggest servants to the hand that feeds them and confined to the 'project brief' they're given (often narrow) and ultimately don't make the final decisions - that's left for those one or two further up the food chain (i.e pollies and their lacky agencies) - at the end of the day such studies are only used as supporting information (if at all) and the decisions made are political ones - if the public don't like it they need to become informed (if the EIS are any good their not a bad place to start) and keep the bastards honest via active lobbying - its worth not being complacent.

Regards - Jim

[tshort]

So whats the latest snippet I hear. A plan that has 13 steps towaeds solving the SEQ water problems with no mention of damming the Mary. Who's got the details on this one.

[Mozza]

cq freshie,

Yep, I agree.

This has been discussed ad nauseam in other threads but the more we discuss the issue, the more we understand the pros and cons.

How much of our money does a dam cost? $billions(??) - hmm thats a lot of money - is a new dam really an investment in the future or a knee jerk, election reaction.

What other options might we explore that gives sustainability a chance. Collecting runoff's really not that bad an idea but keeping to the sustainability idea - collect runoff from artificial drainage system (roads, carparks, culverts) and pump it into artificial storage. The bigger the urban development the bigger the amount of artificial runoff.

Mozza

[PinHead]

Mozza...does that mean lots of small dams everywhere? and filtration and pump stations?

[tshort]

The % of water we actually drink I hear is negligable. We're going to be using recyled waste water sooner or later so why not get some dollars into getting the technology right sooner "Innovation Innovation Innovation". Treated sewerage is pumped into the ocean, rivers and creeks everywhere and they tell us its nearly to a potable standard as they stand there holding up a glass full to show the clarity so why isnt it taken that step further. Councils will find some way to have charges applicable to the process so whats the hold up. One good outcome might be that more dams go ahead and ruin the lung fish habitat etc. etc, then we'll be able to pump in more sewerage without the greenies getting too upset and as the algal blooms grow, Dugong grasses die and all those avarian bird flu carrying migratory birds bugger off from the straits we'll be able to get the fishing and boating restrictions lifted. Ah now its starting to make some sence. Bring it on, build 10 dams.

[Mozza]

Pinhead,

Bring on the Engineers - they've thought up some incredible stuff in the past. There's a storage problem and a gravity problem to overcome but given the amount of rain the developed SE coast had over Summer, its food for thought.

Jim, some of the western European countries are approaching zero population growth with good economic growth. What these guys do in terms of recycling is amazing. An Aussie model based on theirs would be a start.

Wind powered generators, Hydrogen fuel-cell engines, complete recycling of waste including energy from 'cleaned' solid waste.

There are exciting ahead!!

Mozza

[tshort]

How far ahead Mozza, when everything else has been exausted. Will I still be sround to see it. Scientists toild me 10 years ago that space exploration and the excitment about finding water on other planets was because we were running out.

[PinHead]

I could not believe the news yesterday...all these people up in arms about the dam being near them at Rathdowney...we'll all be ruined etc etc...then he announces it will be somewhere else...the Rathdowney people go into raptures..no thought for those who will now be affected..as I said earlier..the NIMBY syndrome is alive and well.

[Matthias]

IMO...There are so many issues which are detrimental to society and the environment when planning to build dams. The outstees usually never get properly compensated and are moved to jobs/land which they have no skills to survive in. The sediment build-up behind dam walls is another problem which usually is released in one big load. The migrations of spawning fish are restricted. The downstream topography changes into a narrower deeper river which restricts ecosystem diversity. etc.etc..... However there are jobs created in building the dams, the coast can continue to grow, and things like floods can be controlled.

The bottom line is it is going to happen eventually and the main thing is that it is done with minimal impact on the environment and local community...if thats possible.

Pete.

Ps. Fishways will be installed for migrating fish such as the lungfish.

[tshort]

NIMBY syndrome for sure. How much support do you think Brisbanites will get from their northern cousins when 50% of Moreton bay becomes a national park. Like Mathias says its going to happen anyway.

[tshort]

Should we listen to international leaders who advise through their experience "Dams Dont Work" or just dig the holes regardless in areas of low population so that the Government has a better chance of regaining power. Or listen to the micro-biologist who claims the quality of waste water purification proposed for Toowoomba would enable it to be used in kidney dialysis machines so why then pump it back into a Dam. I grew up drinking rain water, town water was only used for washing etc. why has it been reversed now so we cant drink rainwater, is it because some politicians years ago didnt want to make decisions for the good of the country because they may loose an election. Am I paranoid or is everyone else, who said that.

[PinHead]

elprez...did that microbiologist drink some of that water or just say how good it is?
As I said in another post, it all sounds great until the filtration plant breaks down...then what ????

[tshort]

Pinhead, if the plant is used to fill the dams then heaps of lead time for maintenance and down time. When this happens they can just pump the raw sewage into the river or ocean as obviously happens now, I know they do in the Mooloolah.

[tshort]

Where I sit I've measured approx. 20 " of rain since beginning of june, today the showers have gone its just raining constantly. Headlines in the paper a couple of days ago with picture of people on coast walking around with umbrellas and the news that traverston was getting nothing. With a bit of luck this rain should braek into intermittent thunder storms for the next few days. What have the headlines in Gympie been. I would like to know if anyones from that way.

[PinHead]

oh well...currently you can buy demineralised water...soon you may be able to buy deurinated water..just think guys..my kidneys today..your coffee tomorrow.