Qld covid border closures

[Ronje1]

Dont know about the NT borders with SA/WA but a lot of road visitors go to NT via Qld and with Qld borders firmly shut, THAT option has been off the table.

I believe that there's going to be an announcement about that in coming couple of days.

My friend Mitch, works at Stanwell power station just outside Rockhampton and the power station has been going thru a maintenance partial shutdown.

Staff have been told that they will be getting an inspection visit next Tuesday by a senior member of Govt that will interrupt work scheduled. Some secrecy and speculation about who and why mysterious visitors might be coming.

Been thinking about that. Putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5 again.

Tuesday is 30th June. End of one financial year and start of a new one.

Qld govt has been under enormous pressure from regional Qld (particularly tourism operators) to open borders.

Regional Qld was where the labor party got "done" in the federal election particularly in CQ where Adani mine was the big issue.

Adani was quickly given the final green light by the Qld ALP govt immediately after the federal election. Qld govt had been stalling and stalling making it clear that they would stop Adani.

The results of the Fed election stopped the Qld govt's obfuscation in its tracks.

Anastashia "Pala-wheelbarrow" is facing doom at the coming state election in October. Her stubborn refusal to open the borders has exacerbated the existing anti-labor feeling in regional Qld.

A senior Qld cabinet minister told me that "the boss" (meaning Anastashia) cannot handle confrontation and would run a mile to avoid it.

I'm guessing that its "the boss" coming to Rocky next Tue to announce a date that the Qld borders would be opened. Maybe even an announcement or two of assistance to struggling tourism operators in regional Qld.

She could have done that at the state/fed meeting last Fri but wanted to be seen to be in control (don't they all just love the power?).

She wants to make the announcement in regional Qld where ALP stocks are low so she's going to Rockhampton to do it. Bit of secrecy involved (not much in way of leaks about who is coming).

She got hammered over Adani in CQ last fed election.

Rocky is a major crossroad in the Qld tourism trail.

Both local ALP members have been struggling coming up to October election.

Stanwell power station is isolated about 25 km west of Rockhampton and has good security so few protestors are to be expected (so little confrontation).

Some hopeful political kudos for ALP in regional Qld to be seen supporting coal industry by visiting Stanwell which is a coal-fired power station.

Its there next Tues morning that I predict the Qld premier will announce a date for the Qld borders to open (unless the Chairman of the People's Republic of Victoria seeks to come and share the stage).

So all you barra fishers who haven't been able to undertake some real barra fishing will now be able to "scratch your itch" soon. (No not that one).

regards
Nostradamus.

[Volvo]

Not that im a great fan of pallachook but with the Boarder Closure i dont know whether its been a good or bad thing considering whats happenning in the State of Victoria ey??..
Weve been fortunate , lucky , or wise so far in the handling of this pandemic ide hate to think a little time in wait might stuff that up ??..
Dont know??

[chris69]

If the borders get opened up and we get new infections here and someone dies I would not want to be the person that ordered it and you won't here from any of the businesses that wanted the boarders opened just more complaining it's a double edge sword and there very sharp both sides we have gone this far,look at Bejing 50 days with no infection and then a outbreak, and look whats happening in the USA they opened up and look whats happened.

[Lucky_Phill]

Seems you folks above have been using your mobile to post and it's spell checking border to boarder ? :)

Any-who, Yes, announcement coming Tuesday.

It will be more like 1 person / 2sqmtrs, double customers in pubs and clubs, possibly sporting venues as well.

Given the state of affairs ( both Covid and Covert ) in Victoria, :-X ;) ::) I am unsure if that border will open, but just maybe NSW.

Planes... ? Good question.

I think the focus of the announcement with be mainly about social distancing / visiting / groups.

LP ><>

[gazza2006au]

Its a bad move in two threee weeks we will see a huge spike i just heard our local markets are reopening which gets thousands of people on a saturday its just crazy we are really going backwards

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[chris69]

49 cases in Victoria today weres all the protesters now all denying they were at the protest ,there just as much to blame from qld borders not opening anytime soon.

[Steeler]

Great point Chris, Lets not ease up on any measures unless it is in the form of a rally. All is good and justifiable apparently for one of those.

[tunaticer]

49 cases in Victoria today weres all the protesters now all denying they were at the protest ,there just as much to blame from qld borders not opening anytime soon.

Probably half of the positive tests are protesters......I can hope so anyway.

[NAGG]

Probably half of the positive tests are protesters......I can hope so anyway.

It's not though

Chris

[gazza2006au]

49 cases in Victoria today weres all the protesters now all denying they were at the protest ,there just as much to blame from qld borders not opening anytime soon.Other states also rallied Chris theee was a big rally in ACT Canberra but no recorded cases that i know of we also had a rally in Sydney

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[chris69]

Other states also rallied Chris theee was a big rally in ACT Canberra but no recorded cases that i know of we also had a rally in Sydney

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Yer they rallied everywere but the difference is Gazza a lot more covid19 cases in melbourne so a lot more chances to catch it as it's turned out they did, Asymtematic people are the biggest worry none in qld today so we are trailer blazers in qld if we start getting a second wave out of the blue covid19 will be here for a long time and as others have said we will have to learn to live with it.

[Ronje1]

There were only a few cases from the Vic marches. Vic seemed to be able to handle those so I don't have a problem with them except for the inconsistent signals being sent to the rest of the community about movement restrictions. Why should I abide by the restrictions when the Vic, NSW and Qld govts don't?

Its where these "hotspots" are in Vic where the problems are and probably have been for some time undetected. Now they're starting to emerge. I reckon that a few other "hotspots" will emerge with some in other states.

There's been some more talk in Qld in anticipation of a border announcement on Tuesday with Anastasia again playing ducks and drakes saying that any decision will be on the advice of the Qld CHO.

The continuing criticism of the borders remaining shut (the's 3 namely the NT, NSW and SA) has resulted in Anatasia blaming the QLD CHO advice to not open them. "I'm on your side to open them but the CHO advises no.
So its the CHO's fault that they have remained closed"

The criticism has reached a pretty serious level now and Anastasia can now see a very bad election loss looming in 90 days time. There are also many elderly people in Qld hoping that the borders stay shut.

So now she reckons that the borders MUST open and instead of being seen to bow to pressure she has the CHO to carry the can again. " The CHO advised me to.......... etc etc and I've always said that I'd abide by the CHO advice.....etc".

Some pretty low politics has been played (and still is) by the Govt in Qld and it'll be good for Qld to get rid of this lot. Oppositions don't win elections. Govt's lose them. So basic question is " Has this Labor Govt done enough bad things to be thrown out". Answer appears to be a resounding yes.

Opposition just as hopeless so smart money in the betting stakes is seeing what inroads can be made in SE corner (labor stronghold area). Not by the opposition but by One Nation and independents with preference deals.

Qld only has 1 house in Parliament being the legislative assembly. Upper house was abolished many years ago so there is no house of review.

A hung parliament with a balance of power situation with independents is what regional people are hoping for.

What a mess Aus is in even BEFORE the Covid crisis particularly with the growing influence of China on everyday life.

The NT govt leased out Darwin Harbour for 99 years to the Chinese. Why? "Cos the NT Govt was broke. The Chinese needed of port in northern Aus to further its ambitions for an alternative route to the traditional old "Silk Road" path into Europe. The old Silk Road is turning into high speed rail links via Iran, Turkey, northern Italy etc. Chinese labour was used in some of those countries and why Covid got such a quick foothold in places like Iran and Italy.

The Peoples Republic of Victoria also succumbed to the money trap via the Chinese "Belt and Road" policy and successive federal govts of both persuasions have been simply giving ALL purchasing proposals the green light with little thought of national security.

I guess that Aus now has the opportunity to stop, think and hit the re-set button on the last 20 years of our development. We've seen what happens when manufacturing is taken away in the quest for bigger profits by companies. Aus has become a consumer society and is simply now utterly dependent on whoever controls the supply lines.

We need to reclaim our self sufficiency.

My head hurts again (and its from sounders this time).

[Ronje1]

Here's the diagram of the Chinese "belt and road" policy.

The blue line is the land component of access into Europe markets mostly via the old "Silk Road".

The red line is the new maritime version of access into Europe. Chinese working on both routes.

For the maritime section, China needs access to ports (hence Darwin Port) and others in SE Asia/Indian Ocean/Suez and Mediterranean (where the two routes meet near a port in northern Italy).

Now there has to be access from within Aus to the Port of Darwin. Probably rail line from bottom of Aus up to Darwin.

And Vic's good old Chairman Daniel fell for the financial assistance offer about infrastructure in Melbourne as did the NT Govt.

That financial and infrastructure assistance by China has spread into the SW Pacific Islands and New Guinea. All of these places have been putting pressure on Aus for more assistance with the threat to team up with China.

China's Belt and Road plans are reminiscent of Japan's Co-prosperity Sphere for SE Asia initiative in the mid-late 1930s (and we know how that ended up).

Think I'll go fishing.

https://www.asiagreen.com/en/news-insights/the-belt-and-road-initiative-and-the-rising-importance-of-china-s-western-cities

[chris69]

What's that got to do with the qld border closure.

[Volvo]

Amazing !! Djokovic and Co had a Tennismatch n party afterwards and near all of them contracted Carooona , three four Rallies and no one wants to admit more than one case of the Virus !!??.. Amazing isnt it ??..
I guess you cant let a Good cause or Story get in the way of the Truth at times ey , would spoil the Party..

[Noelm]

I think as it stands, most states except Vic are doing OK, no person from Victoria should be allowed to leave, by car/boat/plane or walking, and no one should enter the state, keeping borders closed is inconvenient, but it's how it has to be for a while yet.

[gazza2006au]

I think as it stands, most states except Vic are doing OK, no person from Victoria should be allowed to leave, by car/boat/plane or walking, and no one should enter the state, keeping borders closed is inconvenient, but it's how it has to be for a while yet.Yup its the younger people that contact the virus and the elderly pay with thrir lives

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[blacklab]

It's been very interesting down here in Victoria.
I believe today was in the 70's, new cases, but we must quantify that, by the 10's of thousands of tests are now being conducted here. I'm sure if other states did the number of testing that is being carried out here, numbers would be up there as well.
They introduced a new "law" overnight in Victoria, when these "Prissey" overseas travellers, were refusing to take tests before and after mandatory isolation ( at tax payers expense). They now must agree to testing, or they are sent in for further mandatory isolation for 10 days and fined. I believe that the government will be stopping, paying for these motel isolation conditions very soon. In my opinion, if your arriving back in Australia now, from hot spots, your taking the piss and should be charged for the costs.
Cold weather was always going to be an issue with this Covid, it thrives in colder conditions, so Victoria's situation, was to be expected I guess.
I have a brother in law, currently wanting to come back and see his parents in Queesnsland, who are both in there 80's. He hasn't lived in Australia for 25 years, and is applying for an exemption to do mandatory isolation and is throwing the " Australian citizen" card at authorities, saying it's his right !!!. I spoke to him and gave him an absolute serve, explaining he will be on an international flight, for near 10 hours, with strangers and in a pretty dangerous situation in a plane should a passenger have Covid,there's a big likely hood it will spread. But in todays society, it's all about ME and people just don't think outside of there own wants. He cares not about even his parents safety, he is just baulking at someone telling him what to do..
This is partly why we have hot spots here at the moment, people being selfish and getting together in large family gatherings and putting the finger up to officials.
I have a friend in New york, who was a bit of a nay sayer when it all started,, spoke to him on the weekend, he said Col, if seeing make shift morgues all round New York and Manhatten, when it was rampant, wasn't enough to put the wind up people, nothing else will...

Anyways, onwards we go....

Col

[Lovey80]

Agreed with most of that blacklab. Though there’s no evidence on the cold climate part.

I wish the media would stop headlining COVID19 quarantine infections. They come in from O/S, get quarantined and tested. There’s so little risk to the public here that it’s a non-event. The ones refusing testing should be cracked down on hard though. Tell them the 24-28days quarantine for non-testers is at full cost to them and watch how fast they change their minds.

I think it’s time we open up he borders to everywhere but Victoria. They need to lock down hard again.

[Steeler]

Agreed with most of that blacklab. Though there’s no evidence on the cold climate part.

I wish the media would stop headlining COVID19 quarantine infections. They come in from O/S, get quarantined and tested. There’s so little risk to the public here that it’s a non-event. The ones refusing testing should be cracked down on hard though. Tell them the 24-28days quarantine for non-testers is at full cost to them and watch how fast they change their minds.

I think it’s time we open up he borders to everywhere but Victoria. They need to lock down hard again.

Agreed, Perhaps those in and around Brisbane can arrange a mass rally under the disguise of a BLM event ( because they are ok apparently ) and demand the border restrictions between NSW and the 2nd State be removed.

The premier of QLD has gone way too far on this issue and is now looking very much a goose.

[gazza2006au]

You guys are fixated on the BLM rallies the rallies happen all over australia and only victoria bloomed yet your holding it against everyone in the march in all states of australia where so far i only know of a small number that were at the march with the virus yet u lot keep complaining about a speculation mass you will likely never get true numbers about wether those already stepping up or if there were more we will never know but your saying they are all guilty without a trial

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[Steeler]

They were illegal, irresponsible and given the circumstances of several weeks ago they were stupid. The potential was there.

[blacklab]

You guys are fixated on the BLM rallies the rallies happen all over australia and only victoria bloomed yet your holding it against everyone in the march in all states of australia where so far i only know of a small number that were at the march with the virus yet u lot keep complaining about a speculation mass you will likely never get true numbers about wether those already stepping up or if there were more we will never know but your saying they are all guilty without a trial

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I hear you Gazza.
But Don't get confused about the actual different issues.
The BLM world stance, rightly or wrongly ,, is secondary to the Covid issue.
The spread of the virus, is the only concern and you no-one should hide behind an issue and say it overides the pandemic we are currently battling with.

A young girl across the road from me, went to the rally here, she believed in the BLM, as do I and most Aussies.
She now regrets going, why, she can't visit her gravely ill grandfather that is in care and he may not now survive because she now has to Isolate.
The cause is valid, the timing and risk that could follow, is not.

Just my View

Col

[blacklab]

Lovey, I think they are worried about winter and Covid, as the cities that were affectted most with Covid, that had the largest outbreaks, Wuhan, Italy, New York, london, to name the main ones,
Were all in late winter. It's assumed that transmission in winter, is more rampant, but I'm no scientist....

I think there next move, is to lock down troubled suburbs, from what they are indicating today, not completely lock the state down.
Interestingly, the percentage of positive test results, is 3 %, both in Queensland and Victoria and Victoria have tested near 1/2 a million more and still on a testing frenzie.
Test more, get more positive results....
Gunna be interesting how it tracks over the next few weeks.

Col

[Dignity]

Lovey, I think they are worried about winter and Covid, as the cities that were affectted most with Covid, that had the largest outbreaks, Wuhan, Italy, New York, london, to name the main ones,
Were all in late winter. It's assumed that transmission in winter, is more rampant, but I'm no scientist....

I think there next move, is to lock down troubled suburbs, from what they are indicating today, not completely lock the state down.
Interestingly, the percentage of positive test results, is 3 %, both in Queensland and Victoria and Victoria have tested near 1/2 a million more and still on a testing frenzie.
Test more, get more positive results....
Gunna be interesting how it tracks over the next few weeks.

Col

Except the USA and the rest of the northern hemisphere are in summer, mind you the temps that the northern europe ans the baltics have for summer is very similar to our (qld) autumn, early winter.

[blacklab]

Hi Sam,
New Yorks first casualty was in march, winter finished in Febuary for them, so it still would have been cold there in March, Autumn...
I've been there in late march, and it's been as bitter as all hell.
But hey, it's all guess work I suppose, if we had the answers, I suppose we wouldn't be where we are today...
But, up north where you blokes are, is looking pretty good at the minute...

Col

[gazza2006au]

I hear you Gazza.
But Don't get confused about the actual different issues.
The BLM world stance, rightly or wrongly ,, is secondary to the Covid issue.
The spread of the virus, is the only concern and you no-one should hide behind an issue and say it overides the pandemic we are currently battling with.

A young girl across the road from me, went to the rally here, she believed in the BLM, as do I and most Aussies.
She now regrets going, why, she can't visit her gravely ill grandfather that is in care and he may not now survive because she now has to Isolate.
The cause is valid, the timing and risk that could follow, is not.

Just my View

ColHey Col my neice and i think my sister went to the canberra march and are well out of 2 weeks isolation

What march did this young lady go to? The marches were like 3 weeks ago

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[blacklab]

Hi Gazza,
She went to the one in Melbourne on the 12th June, and was restricted from visiting until 26th, which was last Friday . I spoke to her last week, when she was still banned from the hospital, mind you, she still went to her part time job and went out with friends, but the palliative care said she had to do a 14 day stand down and wasn't allowed to visit till the 26th. Haven't heard how her Grandfather is, hopefully she has now visited....

But this shows you how stupid some people can be, or rather thoughtless, they all went, but didn't expect to be given any restrictions by doing so.
Let me tell you, she was horrified when they told her she couldn't visit him and commented, that it wasn't worth going and taking that risk..

My wife works in disabilities, every staff member was met at the door by the CEO and asked if they went to the march, if they did, they were going to be stood down for 14 days, because of the risk to the disabled they care and work closely with.

This is why, I believe, it was detrimental to the whole point and didn't do them selves or the cause justice by marching when they did.
Important as it may be, it had an adverse effect. If the lass across the road wasn't honest and did catch Covid, imagine the devastation that could have happened inside a palliative care hospital to those in care... In fact, it was only her mother that found out about it, that stopped her.

Hard times at the minute Gazza, nothing is normal anymore...

Col

[gazza2006au]

I guess i can see two ways Col but we did need the march just at the wrong time but again it just shows its a controlled country by the white people and people marching were showing its a free world to some degree

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[Lovey80]

Lovey, I think they are worried about winter and Covid, as the cities that were affectted most with Covid, that had the largest outbreaks, Wuhan, Italy, New York, london, to name the main ones,
Were all in late winter. It's assumed that transmission in winter, is more rampant, but I'm no scientist....

I think there next move, is to lock down troubled suburbs, from what they are indicating today, not completely lock the state down.
Interestingly, the percentage of positive test results, is 3 %, both in Queensland and Victoria and Victoria have tested near 1/2 a million more and still on a testing frenzie.
Test more, get more positive results....
Gunna be interesting how it tracks over the next few weeks.

Col

that myth may or may not turn out to be true. But it became a talking point across the globe when trump started talking about the virus going away when he weather warms up.

He’s a Moron.

they are now in their summer and cranking out ever increasing records on daily new infections. Looking at the charts. The active cases are now rising as fast as the early days before the lock downs. In short, I doubt there’s much they can do now. At current rates they’re looking at over a million new cases a month.

For the Mexicans, NSW and South Australia should just build a wall on the border and make Victoria pay for it.

;D;D;D

[Ronje1]

The only real pandemic Aus has ever faced was the Spanish Flu in 1919. We didn't know much about disease control at that time and there were millions of soldiers bringing it back from Europe to different parts of the world. The global result was devastating.

The spread of Spanish Flu was controlled by the type of international transport at that time. Ships.

But when the ships arrived hundreds of carriers were free to spread the virus unchecked

Covid promised more of the same of 100 years ago and Aus was better prepared.

Only difference this time was that international travel was now by aircraft. Much quicker. Other countries also had land borders, river borders and air borders to consider.

Aus is an island and had previous experience with ocean borders so it was primarily air transport where the danger lay.

Predictions of doom and gloom needed to be addressed by respective governments and Aus responded based on the science (sound familar?).

I think that the Aus response was excellent and based on their own judgement that we were dealing with a pandemic similar to the Spanish Flu. (not the illness itself but the logistics associated with transportation, infection rate and domestic spread).

The national plan was good but let down by the performances of individual premiers who claim to hold constitutional power for dealing with health matters. If the Fed govt had decided that Covid was a national security matter (thus falling under Fed constitutional responsibility) the response might have been different. But they didn't and only formed the "national cabinet" to advise the states.

The premiers arranged different responses in each state influenced by the political climate "at home". So we ended up with inconsistent responses across Aus.

Vic is a prime example of what went wrong with response not matching the political rhetoric. Qld and WA not far behind.

Overall we've had 104 deaths (so far) but with the level of inconsistency we should be grateful that it wasn't more.

The one big mistake that the states made was allowing the marches/rallies etc. These were approvals based on politics not on community health/safety. Those marches could have been carried out at another/safer time.

But for the message being sent to the communities was pretty straight forward. Its OK to ignore social distancing declarations sometimes.

So the community feeling was "If its OK for organisers, participants and Govts to ignore the rules then its OK for everybody else to ignore them too". Or community reaction to that effect.

It was seen by many as Inconsistent application of the rules approaching hypocrisy (and not just in the Peoples' Republic of Victoria).

It'll take Vic a while to recover from the outbreak but it will. Having to accept assistance to deal with the outbreak because he "got it wrong" will be an albatross that Chairman Daniel will simply have to wear.

Covid is a strong argument for constitutional change to put the Feds in charge of threats to national health on a national security basis once and for-all. I believe that the constitutional power already exists but the Fed Govt seems to have decided that the resulting bunfight with the states wasn't the time to talk about it (and probably rightly so).

But the issue needs to be sorted out.

[blacklab]

that myth may or may not turn out to be true. But it became a talking point across the globe when trump started talking about the virus going away when he weather warms up.

He’s a Moron.

they are now in their summer and cranking out ever increasing records on daily new infections. Looking at the charts. The active cases are now rising as fast as the early days before the lock downs. In short, I doubt there’s much they can do now. At current rates they’re looking at over a million new cases a month.

For the Mexicans, NSW and South Australia should just build a wall on the boarder and make Victoria pay for it.

;D;D;D

Aww, Common Lovey,
If Trump wasn't there, life would be boring.
I never took much of an interest in US politics before, but I laugh my tits off when I see him in his press conferences.
I know I should take it more seriously, but I just can't, it's been a circus.

Yep, us southerners want to be a separate state to you other blokes, a quick cull out first, then when numbers are better, we become independent....
Just gotta get the NRL finals locked in for down here first....
;D
Time will tell on the spread of this damn thing, I guess, they seem to come up with a different theory every week....
Interesting times...

Col

[Steeler]

The one big mistake that the states made was allowing the marches/rallies etc. These were approvals based on politics not on community health/safety. Those marches could have been carried out at another/safer time.



[/QUOTE]

Re the rallies. Just what states paved the way legally for these to happen ?. I am aware of one here in NSW that went ahead after a technicality in the initial approval. All subsequent ones deemed illegal.

[Ronje1]

Just what states paved the way legally for these to happen ?.

Whether the rallies were legal or not wasn't the message to come out of them.

Adelaide gave their first rally the legal green light by granting a gathering exemption. So it was legal. (Then backtracked for the second proposed rally and no exemption was issued. I believe it was called off).

The Sydney rally was given the legal green light when the NSW Court of Appeal allowed it to proceed. So it was legal also.

There was nothing legal about those in Melbourne, Brisbane or Perth .

The timing of the rallies was simply plain silly and self-serving on the part of the organisers considering what Aus was dealing with at the time. The messages trying to be put forward were ok.

But by NOT doing anything to stop them or talk the rally organisers out of them, those states ( Vic, Qld and WA) were giving tacit approval and THAT was the wrong message to be sending out to everybody else.

What's good for the goose was good for the gander became widespread community comment.

I went to the local rally here in Rockhampton.

About 120 people turned up by the 1pm start and it was quite orderly. I left at about 1.20pm and there was a trickle of more people arriving building the numbers to about 150 - 175 or so.

ABC news reported up to 800 attendees at 2 rallies (Rocky and Ayr). Don't know where they invented those figures.

[Ronje1]

News conferrence

Looks like the Qld borders will be open from 10th July to visitors from every state except........guess where.

[Lovey80]

Aww, Common Lovey,
If Trump wasn't there, life would be boring.
I never took much of an interest in US politics before, but I laugh my tits off when I see him in his press conferences.
I know I should take it more seriously, but I just can't, it's been a circus.

Yep, us southerners want to be a separate state to you other blokes, a quick cull out first, then when numbers are better, we become independent....
Just gotta get the NRL finals locked in for down here first....
;D
Time will tell on the spread of this damn thing, I guess, they seem to come up with a different theory every week....
Interesting times...

Col
Isn't that the truth.

The terrifying thing is that the alternative come November is not much better, obviously corrupt and is half way to full blown dementia. I think Trump still stands a better than 50/50 chance of winning this election. That is unthinkable considering the constant gaffs, sheer incompetence and cringeworthy press conferences and now a terrible handling of a pandemic but I think its going to happen.

[blacklab]

HaHaHa, Lovey, I put some coin down when Trump won, incredible odds, so I thought, why not... it was my best ever return from any punt I've ever taken.

I recon your spot on, there's every chance, he will get re elected......
The alternatives, are probably worse in all honesty LOL.
I know it's not funny, but I seriously can't keep a straight face when he's on Tele at these news conferences, Then there's " crooked Hillary " LOL.
It truly is a farce, can you actually imagine the reaction if he does get re elected !! my sides are hurting already.. ;D

Cheers
Col

[Ronje1]

U're a bit late Col.

NQ wanted that in 1890s. Secede from Qld into another state called Albertland. Cut Qld off at the tropic and everything above that to be declared a separate state. Qld ended up joining the federation as a divided state to become part of Australia. Regional Qld voted NO and the Brisbane/SE area voted yes with a very small majority.

WA didn't join (until later) and the other invitee (NZ) didn't join at all. Was going to be called the Commonwealth of Australasia until NZ pulled out.

Nobody in this area ( CQ) ever forgave the bushranger Frank Gardiner for his role in the formation of Australia. He also didn't get the credit for it as he should have. Instead Henry Parkes rose to fame and glory on Frank's back.

The aim was part of what was eventually called the Great Shearers' strike and ended up as the formation of the ALP in Barcaldine at the Tree of Knowledge (beside the Barcaldine Railway State).

Most miserable tree I've ever seen without any shade and it ended up poisoned a few years later. Maybe that was why the ALP didn't pick up much knowledge by standing in the sun. Bloody hot in Barcaldine at times. Rumour has it that the ghost of Robert Menzies was seen skulking around the shunting yards at that time (mid 1990s).

At the trial of the strike ringleaders in Rockhampton, the trial judge (Virgil Power) declared that the strike had little to do with the settlement of an industrial dispute and was simply a secession attempt.

However, he was under orders that none of the ringleaders was to be found guilty of treason 'cos the Qld govt didn't want any martyrs considering that it wasn't long after the American civil war.

It was the first documented case of the executive wing of govt interfering with the judicial arm of govt. Old Jo Bjelke refined that interference into an artform later but maybe he got the idea from there.

The residence of the new governor had already been built (and still remains) as an integral part of Rocky's rich history. Magnificent building and grounds preserved. Maybe we can ultimately use it for that purpose.

[Lovey80]

HaHaHa, Lovey, I put some coin down when Trump won, incredible odds, so I thought, why not... it was my best ever return from any punt I've ever taken.

I recon your spot on, there's every chance, he will get re elected......
The alternatives, are probably worse in all honesty LOL.
I know it's not funny, but I seriously can't keep a straight face when he's on Tele at these news conferences, Then there's " crooked Hillary " LOL.
It truly is a farce, can you actually imagine the reaction if he does get re elected !! my sides are hurting already.. ;D

Cheers
Col

I know there’s going to be funny bits to this. Especially the radical left and the cancel culture brigade and their identity politics. I can’t wait to see them triggered. That will be fun.

What won’t be fun is the strong potential for a civil war that seems to me to be brewing and the potential for a failed state.

[Lovey80]

Ronje, I’ve lived most of my life in SEQ. I would happily support QLD splitting into two states. For far too long Premiers in SEQ have been happy to sit on NQ royalties and agriculture without giving nearly enough back.

[Ronje1]

a civil war that seems to me to be brewing

At least they'll all be well armed over there.

The Qld govt sent a contingent of the Qld army up here with a gatling gun.

The only thing that stopped guerilla war breaking out was the railway system that allowed troops to be moved around quickly between trouble spots Barcaldine and Clermont.

Then in 1942, the bloody Fed govt came up with the infamous Brisbane Line leaving the rest of Qld to the japanese.

At least the US sent 65,000 troops to Rocky to defend regional Qld while the Aus govt was happy to let the japanese have it.
US people and military always welcome in Rocky particularly with Shoalwater Bay training area nearby.

Successive Qld govts always favour SE Qld due to the larger voting numbers there using a lot of the money from regional mining royalties. Fed govt has been doing the same thing with taxes.

Plenty of arms in regional Qld. Wide Bay region has a lot of irrigation crops fed by water canals etc so pvc ag pipe is normally in abundance particularly 6 inch.

When the reforms came in, you could not buy 6 inch end-caps for a long time. All gone. No prizes for guessing.

I think yanks have got a better system to combat centralisation of power in that the largest city in a state is NOT the capital eg Sacremento is capital of California (not Los Angeles or San Francisco).

What we've ended up with in Aus is still pretty good though not perfect. Always nice to come home to.

Only third world countries I'll visit now would be Tasmania and/or NZ.:P

[NAGG]

Isn't that the truth.

The terrifying thing is that the alternative come November is not much better, obviously corrupt and is half way to full blown dementia. I think Trump still stands a better than 50/50 chance of winning this election. That is unthinkable considering the constant gaffs, sheer incompetence and cringeworthy press conferences and now a terrible handling of a pandemic but I think its going to happen.

It's a case of which turd is the least palatable

Fancy going to an election & having those two choices - specially if you are a normal sane person .

Chris

[Ronje1]

Today came the announcement that 6 Victorian AFL clubs would move to Qld to continue the season.

Qld Premier A Palawheelbarrow joked about Qld now being the home of Aussie Rules.

She wouldn't have known of the role by Qld in the establishment of Aussie Rules in Aus.

So Aussie Rules is simply coming home to Qld.

For those wanting to find out more about the real home of aussie rules look up the name Thomas Wentworth WILLS.

Both NSW and Qld figure prominently in how it started in Aus and the role that cricket played. Tom's dad (Horatio Spencer WILLS).

Did Vic play a major role in establishment of aussie rules? No. It played but a minor part.

The originator was from NSW and the game was developed in Qld (near Springsure at Cullinaringo station).

The life of Tom Wills was the driver of Aussie Rules in Aus.

I often used to joke to visiting Vics that the game was developed in Qld and we Qld'ers dont mind Vic borrowing it but be aware that one day we might want it back.

[Ronje1]

Well, there's sure a lot of stress and uncertainty around s/e Aus this morning. Poor buggers.

Melbournians locked down again for a least 6 weeks and borders closed. Residents near those borders also have their lives turned upside down.

Vic has gone from a Camelot existence where a drover's dog could run the place to a full scale emergency response where a different kind of leader is needed for the rough times ahead.

"Chairman Dan" isn't a leader. He's no John Curtin. He's still trying to bludgeon people.

I see some parallels between Vic and what's happening in Hong Kong in the way that residents must feel about their bleak futures AND both run by a Chairman (except that in HK residents can't get rid of their's).

At least in Vic they do have the opportunity but there'll be tough times before that arises.

Meanwhile, Vic residents need support and not just from internal and external authorities focused on the problem.

They also need it at our level and given in our individual way. Maybe resolve not to "bag 'em" for a while (that'll not be easy) or something.

Anyway, at least think about and empathise with the poor buggers.

[Lovey80]

I think here’s a lot that can be done for the regional border towns. I may be wrong but I think a few cases have popped up in Albury. If they can do a segmented lock down of Wodonga (and other similar regional towns) to other victorians and do wide spread testing. They could effectively drive a soft border south like a military clearance operation that would put those poor buggers just on the inside of Victoria inside the NSW bubble.

That’s of course if NSW/ACT can track down those F-ing idiots that came from Melbourne in the last two weeks and NSW doesn’t have its own explosion.

[Noelm]

Thats the worry, people on trains and planes just getting off and dispersing into the general population, it doesn't take long for one to infect another, then another, we (in NSW) were doing OK but I can see a shit fight brewing, 8 cases yesterday, all were travellers from..........

[NAGG]

Thats the worry, people on trains and planes just getting off and dispersing into the general population, it doesn't take long for one to infect another, then another, we (in NSW) were doing OK but I can see a shit fight brewing, 8 cases yesterday, all were travellers from..........

Don't even need trains & planes when ######## Sydneysiders behave like this

121759 last Wednesday evening - Golden Sheaf Hotel ::)

Chris

[bluefin59]

Don't even need trains & planes when ######## Sydneysiders behave like this

121759 last Wednesday evening - Golden Sheaf Hotel ::)

Chris

This can’t surely be real mate , if so that’s not good young self entitled people will do what they want . Exactly what they don’t need at the moment ,no way would we walk into anything like that .Matt

[The Silver Unicorn]

Has anybody here actually compared the number of deaths from influenza last year compared to this year? Its a sham


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lovey80]

What has influenza got to do with COVID19? Completely different virus with vastly different death rates.

[disorderly]

Has anybody here actually compared the number of deaths from influenza last year compared to this year? Its a sham


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You might want to do some basic research before speaking crap...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2020-03-20/how-coronavirus-covid-19-compares-to-flu/12073696

[Lovey80]

You might want to do some basic research before speaking crap...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2020-03-20/how-coronavirus-covid-19-compares-to-flu/12073696

I swear the only way comments like this come about is because of social media. Some moron blasts some absolute trip on FB or YouTube and people just eat the shit up then begin regurgitating it.

there’s is a new word for themCovidiots.

[shakey55]

Has anybody here actually compared the number of deaths from influenza last year compared to this year? Its a sham


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I think you’ll find the COVID death rates by percentage are a lot higher than that of influenza. You also need to know that Australia has done a lot better than most other nations.

I thought I read somewhere that on average about 5% of COVID cases result in death (not confirmed) but as you will see this is far greater than influenza.

Compare the numbers yourself, the data is easy to find.

121768

121769




Shakey - If only I lived near the coast

[NAGG]

This can’t surely be real mate , if so that’s not good young self entitled people will do what they want . Exactly what they don’t need at the moment ,no way would we walk into anything like that .Matt

It's real alright .. … sadly

Unfortunately Australia is full of these types of people - self centred little shits who just take the piss whenever they feel like it.
In America - the same deal but they do it under the civil rights banner ……. people that are too dumb to sit back & think about the consequences …….. look oat the outbreak after 4th July

Chris

[NAGG]

I think you’ll find the COVID death rates by percentage are a lot higher than that of influenza. You also need to know that Australia has done a lot better than most other nations.

I thought I read somewhere that on average about 5% of COVID cases result in death (not confirmed) but as you will see this is far greater than influenza.

Compare the numbers yourself, the data is easy to find.

121768

121769




Shakey - If only I lived near the coast

Yep Rona is a big step up from the flu …… I've head similar figures of up to 5% - it varies from country to country & the level of health care available . The thing is if you are elderly or with a precondition - the death rate goes up considerably ( look at Newmarsh house & the death rate there)

Chris

[disorderly]

I swear the only way comments like this come about is because of social media. Some moron blasts some absolute trip on FB or YouTube and people just eat the shit up then begin regurgitating it.

there’s is a new word for themCovidiots.

Sad but true...I certainly agree that social media is responsible for the dumbing down of society...so many dont bother researching anymore because they saw it on facebook so it must be true....

What many people dont understand is that because Australia has been incredibly fortunate so far in regards to covid caseload, what is not so widely spoken about or widely known yet is the long term effects of having survived a bad case of Covid...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-08/long-term-effects-of-coronavirus/12425102

Try telling people that have ongoing issues relating to heart, lung, or brain damage that Covid is a "sham"....

One of the other issues is that survival rates can, of course, increase the more that is known about the disease and the more drugs and health care can be tailored for the best possible outcome to prevent people from reaching the stage where ventilation is needed..However as in Italy, New York and other places what we dont want to see is a situation where the disease is running rampant and overwhelming the health system to the point where decisions need to be made on treating those with the best possibility of survival and leaving the worst cases to just die....

Some of the stories out of some of the worst hit countries are shocking with elderly left to die in their beds or in hospital corridors, health care workers dying from Covid, refrigeration trucks storing bodies because funeral homes were overwhelmed and mass graves in parks and paddocks for the dead....

Most of us know these things but thats what all those young idiots in the photo's that nagg posted are conveniently ignoring...The "It wont happen to us" syndrome.......well it can and still may...:-?

As an aside if anyone wants to hear about the lighter side of millennials, selfies, social media and dating, I'd highly reccomend Jim Jeffries new 1 hour special "intolerent" on Netflix...its absolutely hilarious as he always is but not for the easily offended...;D

[Ronje1]

Don't be surprised if the Qld borders are closed again.

[Lovey80]

I think they should do a full scale lock down of the border now. Look at NSW. They started off with a staged approach and only locked out people in certain suburbs of Melbourne and a shed load of the, took the piss and now NSW is at risk.

Send all the NRL teams up there right now and then shut the border.

[shortthenlong]

Don't be surprised if the Qld borders are closed again.

Step 1 in the re-closing at midday today
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-14/coronavirus-queensland-hotspots-declared-nsw/12445814

Complete re closure is only a matter of time. My money is on Friday.

Screw being in politics, they are damned which ever way they go.

Matt

[TheRealPoMo]

Send all the NRL teams up there right now and then shut the border.

How about they stay where they are and do something useful to help in the crisis rather than play grabarse...

Close the border tho definitely.


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[Fed]

I bet every state in Australia currently has hundreds of carriers on the loose.

[bluefin59]

I bet every state in Australia currently has hundreds of carriers on the loose.

I’m up here in Cairns on the way to Cooktown and I can tell you from first hand experience and talking to locals they are worried about transmission from down south of the border , it’s extremely sad to see how little is actually open and so many for lease signs up in what where once healthy tourist based businesses. I have been here a number of times and tourism is in a bad state of affairs up here , and that if it spreads up here . The worry is real .

[Lovey80]

How about they stay where they are and do something useful to help in the crisis rather than play grabarse...

Close the border tho definitely.


Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

when we are all in lock down, having them in a bubble and playing on the Tele is going to do a lot for other people’s sanity. I look forward to the games every week. And if there’s one thing we can all agree on is that NRL referees are shit and and that brings people together even if remotely. ;D

[TheRealPoMo]

Lol, yeah....Bread and Circuses while the empire falls (and now toilet paper).

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[Ronje1]

Not to do with border closures but certainly to do with a lessons for Aus as a result of covid.

In 2010, the then Govt introduced the NBN (National Broadband Network) based on fibre optic cable to the residence. High capacity/high speed. "Data arrives at destination before u even send it" type of hype.

In 2013, the new Govt decided to cut the NBN costs back by only running optic fibre to the nearest Telstra "pillar box". A pillar box is the name given to a Telstra box on a footpath on which ALL Telstra copper wires from underground cables are connected.

The Telstra lineman could "cross-connect" different terminals within the box by using "jumper leads" to get different lines to go in different directions out from that box.

There were a number of "cross-connection" boxes in the network. Pillars and cabinets on the streets and within the exchange were huge multipoint distribution frames (MDFs) with similar cross connection abilities with "jumpers" so that ANY telephone number within the exchange could be connected to ANY house by simply using these cross-connecting facilities spread around the city streets.

The longstanding name "pillar" (the last interconnecting box before the house) was thrown out and a new word was introduced. The pillar became a "Node" and the catch phrase became "Fibre to the Node".

So we had a fibre optic cable system capable of high speed/high capacity operation..............but only to the node/pillar.

That's like firemen using a 4 inch fire hose from the hydrant and with the last 10 m being normal 1/2 inch garden hose. THAT'LL get the same job done cheaper 'cos that 4 inch hose costs a lot more than garden hose, ya know!

Great thinking, Sol.

After that, the cable to the residence was the old Telstra twisted pair of copper wires which WASN'T capable of high speed/high capacity operation.

But it was cheaper and thus much better (according to the then Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull who claimed that he knew best).

Businesses not in residential areas were happy 'cos they had fibre cable and not "fibre to the node". They were "looked after".

Enter Covid.

Now stacks of employees had to do their work FROM THEIR HOME on Malcolm's rats...t node system.

The result? Normal residential use of the internet collapsed due to congestion by businesses employees now also using the old Telstra twisted pair of copper wires to work from home.

In suburbs of regional cities, use of the internet between 8am and 5pm has become very very difficult.

Great thinking Malcolm.

Just like the short-sightedness of providers of mobile phone services, look after businesses and don't even consider that the general community might like to have a reliable service for safety purposes in times of disaster. Flood, cyclone, fire etc. THAT'S when the mobile phone system collapses from congestion caused by inadequate capacity.

THAT was certainly evident in the recent bushfires where mobile phone base stations failed either by being burnt out (not much you can do when that happens) or their power and back-up generator systems failed (or weren't provided).

With the NBN network, no power for the phone comes down the telephone wires any more. The telephone exchange used to send 48 volts down the copper wire system so the phone was independent of power outages.

Under Malcolm's much better flashes of brilliance, lose mains power now and the phone doesn't work. Bugger.

But we've ALL got mobile phones as backup! Most maybe (not all) but they're useless in regional areas anyway 'cos the mobile phone system goes into overload/congestion due to insufficient capacity.

I think Malcolm must have been a consultant for all of these providers.

Obviously that Govt plan of 2013 was flawed and the community has been paying the social price of a second rate NBN service (at great cost). Thank you Malcolm and the liberal govt.

Covid has clearly exposed that flaw.

Now PM Morrison has a brilliant idea. Extend the NBN by doing away with that idea of the cheaper "fibre to the node". THAT was Malcolm's silly idea anyway.

NOW we'll run fibre to the residences of those users who've had to put up with Malcom's silly idea of using the old copper wires. Back to the original plan!

We only agreed with Malcolm 'cos we always intended to come back and run fibre to the residence. Cross our little hearts we did. Wash ya mouth out with soap for even thinking that we didn't.

One wouldn't be dead for quids with all this going on, would one?

Aus certainly is "the smart country".

[Noelm]

Fibre to the residence is not just a 5min job, every house will have to have lines run, which means digging, across/through lawns, driveways, drains and fences, it was always rather "ambitious" to think it could be done, down my way, there was only (maybe) 3 areas that got fibre to the residence, the rest of us just got the leftover crumbs.

[Ronje1]

U're right about that. Same crumbs here. We've got about 800m of copper cable so can probably think ourselves lucky that ANY data at all dibbles out of the end let alone spurts out.

But its a "shovel-ready" long term infrastructure project that will provide lots of jobs thus assisting in the economic recovery. Aus needs those projects.

The f/o cable will be replace the existing old copper cables in the existing underground conduits up to the residence entry point (usually pits) outside the property. If the resident wants f/o in from the pit then I'd say they'd have to do it themselves and THAT'S where they'd run into trouble with fences, sewerage lines etc (on the property).

[Lovey80]

Ronje, in this one you are a tool. There was nothing stopping you upgrading to fibre from the node to the house on your own dime. Why should the rest of the country pay for that when fibre to the node was plenty fast for the majority of Australians (at the time).

also you’re conveniently forgetting the bullshit forecasting that Labour did on the coatings. First it was a 20bn project. Then quickly 50bn. Even when Malcom cut it back it still cost more than that.

BTW your analogy of the fire house is completely wrong.

[TheRealPoMo]

Everyone was warned in the 80s that the sale of Telecom would mean the end of guaranteed and equitable access to telecommunications. Reap what you sow.

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[Ronje1]

also you’re conveniently forgetting the bullshit forecasting that Labour did on the coatings. First it was a 20bn project. Then quickly 50bn. Even when Malcom cut it back it still cost more than that.

Not conveniently forgetting anything. ALL of the costings were b/s. Labour's original grand plan was indeed way under estimate. AND Malcom's grand change made sure that it wasn't going to work properly.

All residences had to change over to the NBN (to recover costs). No option.

There was nothing stopping you upgrading to fibre from the node to the house on your own dime

How (even if you wanted to)?

Lovey, the node is NOT the pit outside yr house 10 or 20m away.

The node is the Telstra pillar box about a metre or so high 800m away (in our case. Further or less with others) on a nearby main connecting road. It sits beside a large concrete lid which covers the associated underground cable connecting conduit. From THAT pillar box, the cables run out in underground conduits to distribution boxes at the ends of streets.

From those distribution boxes, the cables (still in underground conduits) run down the street to little concrete pits (about a foot square) on the footpath outside each house. Then that cable (your cable) goes from the footpath pit to your house's entry point. You can replace that little bit with fibre optic cable if you want to.

That won't do you any good though 'cos the preceding 800m of copper cable back to the pillar/cabinet box is where the signal transmission losses are.

I think that little pit on the footpath outside your house is what you believe is the much quoted node and that fibre optic runs right to that point just outside your house.

Its not and NBN's fibre optic cable is a long long way from your house under the fibre to the node arrangement.

So how do you propose people privately run f/o cable from a pillar box (owned by Telstra, locked and a criminal offence to interfere with) 800m away across roads, gutters, creeks, footpaths, driveways etc. owned by Council? Just lay it out on the ground? Sling it up on poles that you erect all over the place?

Alternatively, I'm sure that telstra, gas, water or electricity suppliers wouldn't even entertain the thought of allowing everybody to put fibre-optic cables in their existing underground conduits.

I was happy with what I had before either of the expensive grand plans. Mainly I didn't want to lose the phone when the power went off 'cos I knew that's what the result was if the NBN's fibre-optic network was introduced with or without Malcom's bit of adventurism.

You can't run power for the phone over a cable which has no metallic conductors inside and fibre optic cable has no metallic conductors inside.

The NBN with fibre to the node has meant absolutley no change in capacity/speed for me. All its done is made the telephone not work if the power goes off (which it does here with floods, fires and cyclones).

I don't need extra anything, Lovey. Just want the bloody thing to at least work enough to use. Malcom's r/sh.t idea put paid to that as covid has clearly demonstrated.

I'm happy if they left it alone. Its a good idea to create some infrastructure projects providing employment for some poor buggers who need it though.

Be even better if that infrastructure was dams or power stations which are much more useful to the communities and business (and provide more jobs) than a mickey mouse yuppie system which allows computers/electronic devices to talk to each other.

[Ronje1]

Lovey,

Misinformation coming out of any projects of govts of any persuasion is par for the course these days. NBN information has been s shambles since it was thought of. It became more of a shambles when Malcolm Turnbull intervened.

The diagram below, depicts what's called fibre-to-the-node (FTTN). Fibre to a street pillar box and then old telstra copper cable to the house.https://r3.whistleout.com.au/public/images/articles/2017/12/NBN-FTTN.jpg



The image below depicts fibre-to-the-premises (FTTP). The fibre optic cable runs all the way to the premises via the little concrete pit outside your house.
https://r3.whistleout.com.au/public/images/articles/2017/12/NBN-FTTP.jpg

That last section from the pillarbox to the house is what Malcom changed and in doing that crippled the performance of the NBN in most regional residential areas.

Don'tcha just love all these acronyms that people throw around? They must know what they're talking about if they're using industry acronyms/jargon to describe this highly technical subject!

.https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRoA_5bI5rm1Ax3VllO-jsPS-K_81mEOKmbSg&usqp=CAU

The image above is one of these "nodes" where the fibre-optic cable finishes. All the way down that street is serviced by lower quality old telstra copper cables distributed out of the cable pit next to the footpath concrete path. So the performance of the NBN from that pillar box is diminished the further down the street that you live.

The large box at the front (the one with the grafitti), is the fibre-optic interface box.

The small round box in the background (the one with the lean) is one of those pillar cabinets I was talking about. It distributes the underground cables down the street in the background.

On the ground beside it is one of those square concrete lids that covers the hole where the cables all terminate and are further distributed down the street in the background.

The next image below is one of those concrete footpath cable pits outside residences that I was talking about. Full of old telstra copper cables and joins.

Like a old corroded spaghetti junction of wiring connections eh?

THOSE types of pits with those old corroded mares' nests of wiring and joins are typical of what's inside. And this is the "technology" that underpinned Malcolm's bright idea of "fibre-to-the-node".

How do you think your extremely fast fibre-optic data signals fare after having to go through messes like these before getting to your house.

When it rains (or the neighbour puts the sprinkler on the footpath) the pits get full of water. That'd make things work better!

The one in the photo looks like its been underwater quite recently.

When its dry, the pits get full of ants which build nests chock-a-block over everything. ( Nice cool dry safe place). THAT makes it work better too. Ant venom contains form acid and they also produce carboxylic acid. Both in great abundance if a telstra cable pit full of ants also gets some water in it.

And there you have it. "Fibre - to - the - Node"

I don't think that you're a tool Lovey.

Ya got a plan on how a person living 800m away down that street might get his own private fibre-optic cables to his residence? The ones he spent HIS dimes on. Running it from tree to tree through the branches might be worth exploring. There's also the odd electricity pole that might be useful.

https://secureacom.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/telstra-complaints-phone-line-faults-in-the-telstra-network.jpg

Fibre-optic utility box on a FTTP (premises) installation.

https://www.mynetfone.com.au/media/blog/2012/photo_2.jpg

[Lovey80]

I know how it works Ronje, I had the same issues as you had when ours was converted to NBN because the copper cables had issues. They got fixed and the house has regular 25Mb/s speeds which is enough for 3 TV’s to be streaming Netflix at the same time.

You could have rang NBN in the early phase, and I believe still can now, and paid for the node to the premises to be made fibre optic. if you got your whole street to agree it would have been cheaper.

We were all sold this amazing tech for 20bn by politicians. Even after a massive chunk was cut out of the infrastructure it was still north of 50bn. This was one of the few things Malcom got right and what this government is wrong on. FTTP is likely to be superseded by 5G before it’s completed. Why would we spend another 5-10-40bn dollars when 5G could provide 3-10Gbit/s speeds?

it’s madness.

[gazza2006au]

Seen a victorian driver in sydney this afternoon i had my windows down and he pulled in from of me all it would have takin is a sneeze while driving than suck strait into my car

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[TheRealPoMo]

They only put 5G where the money is and as the frequency increases, range and coverage decreases. FTTH would always have been the grown up option.
Besides, it gives you Covid....and Syphillis.
Wouldn't want that again.[emoji28]

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[gazza2006au]

They only put 5G where the money is and as the frequency increases, range and coverage decreases. FTTH would always have been the grown up option.
Besides, it gives you Covid....and Syphillis.
Wouldn't want that again.[emoji28]

Sent from my SM-G960F using TapatalkAgain? LOL

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[shaungonemad]

Seen a victorian driver in sydney this afternoon i had my windows down and he pulled in from of me all it would have takin is a sneeze while driving than suck strait into my car

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Yep carona for you.


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[Noelm]

Everyone was warned in the 80s that the sale of Telecom would mean the end of guaranteed and equitable access to telecommunications. Reap what you sow.

Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk
This kind of thing has been an issue in all types of Government departments, sure there was hundreds of employees who did next to nothing, but, in the main, electricity, phones, water and a dozen other commodities were supplied as a "service" not a money making proposition, over the years, things changed and bean counters decided to sell off these non profit services to private enterprises, they do not provide a service, they make money, jobs went and money was the object.

[Steeler]

Seen a victorian driver in sydney this afternoon i had my windows down and he pulled in from of me all it would have takin is a sneeze while driving than suck strait into my car

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Couldn't have been a company car where the company is based in Vic but the driver a NSW Employee

Couldn't have been a hire car ?

Couldn't have been recently purchased from Vic by a NSW resident trucked up and not changed over yet out of Vic to NSW plates ?

Being out Liverpool way could it have been a ADF employee originally from Vic based out of Holsworthy , Richmond etc

Thousands of reasons Gaz

[NAGG]

Ronje, in this one you are a tool. There was nothing stopping you upgrading to fibre from the node to the house on your own dime. Why should the rest of the country pay for that when fibre to the node was plenty fast for the majority of Australians (at the time).

also you’re conveniently forgetting the bullshit forecasting that Labour did on the coatings. First it was a 20bn project. Then quickly 50bn. Even when Malcom cut it back it still cost more than that.

BTW your analogy of the fire house is completely wrong.

Lets stick with the facts - It was estimated that the NBN would cost about $15 billion prior to the 2007 election - that was back of an envelope cost
Then at a later point in 2008 /09 - After proper costing / planning incl the decision to bypass the old copper network ( because it was shit) ..... the cost estimates were about $38 billion.

It was your old mate Tony Abbott in 2013 that they would alter the NBN & base it on mixed technologies & the now infamous "FTTN" & said that it could be done for about $30 billion
Well how has that worked out ? -
Labor realised that the old copper network was shit - It's why they avoided it & why the costs increased .
Under the LNP they came to learn how bad ithe old copper network was - the cost of powering the nodes but worst of all how bad the the pits were involving the cost of asbestos removal & the replacement with polyproylene & polyethylene . So much of the copper network has had to be replaced ,...... something like 50,000 km of copper wire . All of this has blown out Abbott & Turnbull fraudband to something like $51 billion . I work with the major producers of both copper wire & fiber - They absolutely love Fraudband because they're sales went through the roof & exceeded budget significantly because of their copper manufacturing .

So we have ended up with a slower second rate NBN which is more expensive ...... and now Scomo wants to roll out more FTTP because he knows that the FTTN was a cockup.

Chris

[Noelm]

I doubt most of us will ever see fibre to every house, there might be isolated areas that will get done, but, replacing the entire copper network would take a lifetime, by the time it was even a quarter finished, something better would come along. Just the sheer scale of the job is mind boggling, let alone the cost, it would take so long to do, costing would be impossible, it has to become a "just do it" project, having been involved in fibre networks for a long time, the job is enormous.

[gazza2006au]

Couldn't have been a company car where the company is based in Vic but the driver a NSW Employee

Couldn't have been a hire car ?

Couldn't have been recently purchased from Vic by a NSW resident trucked up and not changed over yet out of Vic to NSW plates ?

Being out Liverpool way could it have been a ADF employee originally from Vic based out of Holsworthy , Richmond etc

Thousands of reasons GazPossibly but it was a old camry

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[gazza2006au]

Not sure what this fibre thing is optical fibre? Internet? If it is before the gov outlays billions wireless internet would just become cheaper and way easier to use

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[shakey55]

Why dose (our gov) persist with this technology, when it appears that wireless is the future.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/27/what-is-wi-fi-6.html



Sent from my iPad using Ausfish forums

[Noelm]

Wireless (at the moment) is not anywhere near as good or safe as a cable, someday maybe, but it's a long way off.

[NAGG]

Why dose (our gov) persist with this technology, when it appears that wireless is the future.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/27/what-is-wi-fi-6.html



Sent from my iPad using Ausfish forums


Wireless has limitations - it's nowhere near a stable as cable (proper FTTH). It depends on the location of the tower . The construction of the building or what is around it , where you locate the modem . what interference from other appliances etc . Plus a lot of other stuff.
My 5G is pretty darn good with speeds of up to 183mb/s - but it's also been down as low as 25mb/s .... & I'm limited to 200Gb

Chris

[Ronje1]

[QUOTE=shakey55;1676058]Why dose (our gov) persist with this technology, when it appears that wireless is the future.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/27/what-is-wi-fi-6.html

To get the speed you need bandwidth. To get sufficient bandwidth you need higher frequencies. Much much higher than latest mobile phone freqs. You know how much trouble you have with mobile phones in hilly or foliaged areas. In cities mob phones are ok 'cos the buildings reflect signals into every nook and cranny.

In hilly or forested areas you can throw the phone further than you can talk on it particularly if u're not using an outside antenna AND u're trying to talk from inside a moving tin can to boot. That's the negative impact of using increasingly higher and higher frequencies.

Low to the ground nodes using wireless distribution in suburbs/regional areas means no range PLUS the leafy part of our leafy suburbs absorbs the high freq wireless signals.

At least with fibre optic cable, wireless frequencies as high as those of light can be used in the cable. THEN we have no problems with bandwidth or speed.

But the fibre optic cable needs to go to the house/premises (FTTP) to achieve that and THAT means enormous expense.

Such an expensive infrastructure project just doesn't make sense in the light of broader advantages that other much needed projects can bring to the community.

Covid has exposed the shortcomings of fibre to the node (FTTN) via businesses using it to work from employees residences where the fibre optic network is very patchy at best..

There are widespread calls to business to continue that practice. Savings by business in not having to provide the businesses infrastructure (office space/depot/employee facilities/parking etc) are seductive notions.

There'll be some moves to do just that. We've seen the effect of business employees working from home on the FTTN network already (congestion from business use in the suburbs).

Prior to covid, Aus's FTTN was a second world telecommunication system and It sure won't get any better without tossing FTTN out and replacing it with FTTP (fibre to the premises).

Aus needs to look nationally at community impact of businesses working from home on the existing telecommunications networks that service those communities.

[Steeler]

Re: Qld covid border closures

[Lovey80]

Ronje, mobile phones networks don’t work well because the signal bounces off buildings. Yes you get some reflection but with each reflection the signal is vastly reduced. Networks are good in cities because you have hundreds of antennas in a very small area (to negate the buildings blocking signal) which is justified by the dense number of users in that area. compared to in the bush or hilly areas where it’s harder to justify more expensive towers due to less people.

The mm frequencies of 5G will require vastly more towers spaced even closer together to achieve the same thing without frying everyone’s balls with huge power outputs. There will be small antennas everywhere you look. On cars. In most floors of high rises, everywhere. But the tested speeds are massive compared to the stuff they are talking about with FTTP. And on top of that we don’t need the government to pay for it because the private sector will install it all or they’ll get left behind.

[TheRealAndy]

Ronje, mobile phones networks don’t work well because the signal bounces off buildings. Yes you get some reflection but with each reflection the signal is vastly reduced.

Lol.

Lovely, you are pretty skilled in a lot of areas. What do you do for a living? Are you an electrical engineer?

[Ronje1]

Lovey,
You get heaps of reflections (not some). That's why its successful in CBD areas. The main effect of reflections is the 180 degree phase change that accompanies it. Signal polarisation change also occurs. Both can cause problems to a stationary mobile phone user. Move the phone a bit (like take a step) and the relationships between reflected signals changes. Ditto with the relationships between reflected signals and any direct signal changes. The signal "comes good".

In regional areas and suburbs you dont have the tall hard surfaces from which reflections can occur. Mostly you have straight out attenuation problems due to hilly ground and foliage.

And the effects of both are greater as you go higher in frequency. 24 - 30 ghz freqs in the mm 5G band are more affected than the 6 ghz portion of the band.

If you are looking for increased bandwidth to allow higher data exchange rates, then you need high signal strengths AND you won't find those higher signal strengths in leafy, hilly suburbs or regional areas if you are trying to push SHF frequencies around the place to provide service. SHF frequencies (Super High Frequencies) are those whose wavelengths are measured in cm. Yet the industry "jargon" refers to mm.

And that's where the FTTN exists. Not in CBD or well served inner city suburbs of major cities.

Installing any sort of wireless network from the node is every bit as poor a decision as using the copper cables to the premises (FTTN) decision in the first place.

NONE of the wireless technology can compete with a straight cable connection. None. No transmission or signal path variations in a cable.

Basically a fibre-optic cable is bandwidth capable from " dc to daylight".

In addition the attenuation loss is predictable and therefore easily surmountable to allow sufficient signal strengths at the premises for true wide bandwidth and high data speed exchange operation.

Why on earth would anybody swap a 2nd best distribution system (fibre to the node) with another 2nd best distribution system ( wireless)? Same operational problems but from different causes.

Industry will install wireless technology in FTTN areas hoping to make a profit? In the words of Darryl from The Castle " Tell 'im .... ...............".

I'm happy with what I've got (FTTN) providing that we don't have the continuing congestion problems associated with employees operating business computer activities from their homes like we've been experiencing with covid.

I see that Scott Morrison and Friedenberg are now talking about incentives for businesses to get their employees back to their offices to assist other CBD businesses recover. Get 'em back out of the suburbs.

If an upgrade to fibre-optic to the premises cable is contemplated to create jobs for the recovery, I don't have a problem with that.

At least at the end of the day and the expenditure of a lot of money, Aus will have something to show for it.

Spend our way out of a recession? You betcha.

[Noelm]

Still wandering off track, it all goes back to what I said earlier, it's all cost driven, not service driven, back in the "old days" the PMG/Telecom/Telstra had thousands on employees, major infrastructure like we are talking about just "got done" they had equipment and manpower (jobs) and it got built, all that has been sold off in the name of profit, private enterprise wants profit for investors, not a service to the general public. Silly nodes scattered around is just band aids on open heart surgery, way back in 1998 (I think) I was involved in a fibre network upgrade/trial, we did a fibre to the desk, a fibre to a node, a microwave failover and a mixture of the existing copper setup, fibre to the desk (house in the big picture) was a clear winner by a country mile, but, it was expensive and very time consuming doing an existing building, a new building was easy, kind of like how a new housing estate would be easy, but to replace the old copper would be/is a nightmare, and that directly relates to cost.

[Steeler]

Has the QLD Govt closed the border to the NBN ?.

Did that come up as one of the wishes of the QLD people when they were polled using QLD taxpayers dosh.

[Noelm]

I heard on the news that we (NSW) had no new cases for 3 days straight now, however, warm weather is predicted from Thursday-Monday, so just guessing, the beaches will be packed like they were a month or so ago when we had that hot day! It seems "measures" are being put in place to control numbers. The border closures appear to be working, QLD is going OK, even Victoria has lower new case numbers, it's hurt a lot of people, but that's the price we have to pay, let's hope it's a close end to this insidious shit.

[Fed]

The end?
This is just the beginning.

[Noelm]

Nah, I think (hope) we have a handle on it now, it won't go away, but I think we can keep a lid on it.

[Ronje1]

I guess we did get a bit off track. Sorry.

Happy to take the techo conversation up somewhere else if anybody wants though.

Confidently wrong stuff like this causes a lot of confusion But the tested speeds are massive compared to the stuff they are talking about with FTTP....absolute rubbish.

Never mind about Qld's border. Anastasia saved us again. She's done a lot of that over the last few years (just ask her).

[Steeler]

Be sure not too ask her about people her Govt provide taxpayers money to. She can't recall them even though she has met them on numerous occasions and has a family member on the books.

She taking QLDers for suckers

Pretty sad the lengths her Govt have gone to so they have there best chance of re election. They have really exposed themselves to the rest of Aust as to the type of human beings ( loose description ) they really are.

[gazza2006au]

I had cable back in the old day i think i first got cable internet installed around 2002-2003 the telstra guy came out and had to test my connection he mentioned i had one of the best cable connections he had seen i moved out in 2009

Took my connection to the new house where i had it another 10 years but it was no where near as good

I gave up cable internet 5 months ago in favour of phone internet which is incredibly slow but i aint paying $100 a month

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[blacklab]

I haven't really ever had much to do with Queensland/NSW state politics. But it seems to me, now that they are showing alot of this on the foxtel Covid channel, which i switch onto for any updates, but there's more state political crap on it, rather than Covid. One thing is quite alarming, they are seriously in Election mode .... You know what, I believe that during these times, should a state election come into play, I reckon the election should be totally posponed till the emergency at hand is dealt with or they have a really good handle on it. I would have sworn This bloke on today, was going word for word what Scomo has been saying for months now, his catch cry, that creating jobs will pull us through this current economic climate,,,, Then the script said this was the Labour Jobs minister from Queensland, he repeated the catch cry, over and over, he was in true election mode and yet they were asking him about Covid related safety measures !!! I couldn't watch it..... LOL
Put the elections off until this Covid shite is done with or under control, I Say...

Col

[Lovey80]

NONE of the wireless technology can compete with a straight cable connection. None. No transmission or signal path variations in a cable

trying to dig all the way into your long mansplaining posts will take weeks. But explain this one?

when all of this was being floated 1GB/s was the possibility for FTTP. That’s pretty much 10 times what the average home user will need before 2030. We are being told 5G has speeds of up to 10GB/s. That’s 10 times that of FTTP. Sure we can go bigger fibre cables to infinity or separate cables from the node to each premises to increase fibre speeds but that’s not what Labor was proposing and is not realistic cost wise.

From what I understand of 5G is that there will need to be millions of antennas to transmit the signals. Mostly line of sight between them. Microwave links etc to transfer the data/signal to each end user. Without those the power required to achieve the same distances would be unsafe.

You add the same density of current tech 4G mobile phone towers per Sq/km to hilly/wooded areas as you get in Sydney or Melbourne then you’re going to get good signal.

[shakey55]

Lovey,
You get heaps of reflections (not some). That's why its successful in CBD areas. The main effect of reflections is the 180 degree phase change that accompanies it. Signal polarisation change also occurs. Both can cause problems to a stationary mobile phone user. Move the phone a bit (like take a step) and the relationships between reflected signals changes. Ditto with the relationships between reflected signals and any direct signal changes. The signal "comes good".

In regional areas and suburbs you dont have the tall hard surfaces from which reflections can occur. Mostly you have straight out attenuation problems due to hilly ground and foliage.

And the effects of both are greater as you go higher in frequency. 24 - 30 ghz freqs in the mm 5G band are more affected than the 6 ghz portion of the band.

If you are looking for increased bandwidth to allow higher data exchange rates, then you need high signal strengths AND you won't find those higher signal strengths in leafy, hilly suburbs or regional areas if you are trying to push SHF frequencies around the place to provide service. SHF frequencies (Super High Frequencies) are those whose wavelengths are measured in cm. Yet the industry "jargon" refers to mm.

And that's where the FTTN exists. Not in CBD or well served inner city suburbs of major cities.

Installing any sort of wireless network from the node is every bit as poor a decision as using the copper cables to the premises (FTTN) decision in the first place.

NONE of the wireless technology can compete with a straight cable connection. None. No transmission or signal path variations in a cable.

Basically a fibre-optic cable is bandwidth capable from " dc to daylight".

In addition the attenuation loss is predictable and therefore easily surmountable to allow sufficient signal strengths at the premises for true wide bandwidth and high data speed exchange operation.

Why on earth would anybody swap a 2nd best distribution system (fibre to the node) with another 2nd best distribution system ( wireless)? Same operational problems but from different causes.

Industry will install wireless technology in FTTN areas hoping to make a profit? In the words of Darryl from The Castle " Tell 'im .... ...............".

I'm happy with what I've got (FTTN) providing that we don't have the continuing congestion problems associated with employees operating business computer activities from their homes like we've been experiencing with covid.

I see that Scott Morrison and Friedenberg are now talking about incentives for businesses to get their employees back to their offices to assist other CBD businesses recover. Get 'em back out of the suburbs.

If an upgrade to fibre-optic to the premises cable is contemplated to create jobs for the recovery, I don't have a problem with that.

At least at the end of the day and the expenditure of a lot of money, Aus will have something to show for it.

Spend our way out of a recession? You betcha.

Thanks Rinje1 for this info. I was always of the opinion that wireless was the ants pants.

It’s nice to learn something new every day.


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[Steeler]

The WA Premier certainly made Annastacia Stayaway look like a warm blooded being with an actual beating heart inside.

Any federal ALP figure who does not come out and condemn his comments today are not worthy of a vote and there place in the federal parliament.

[Lovey80]

The WA Premier certainly made Annastacia Stayaway look like a warm blooded being with an actual beating heart inside.

Any federal ALP figure who does not come out and condemn his comments today are not worthy of a vote and there place in the federal parliament.

which comments in particular? The 28 days of zero community transmission?

[Steeler]

which comments in particular? The 28 days of zero community transmission?

https://www.kiamaindependent.com.au/story/6950499/palmer-cci-slam-mcgowans-wa-border-call/


(https://www.kiamaindependent.com.au/story/6950499/palmer-cci-slam-mcgowans-wa-border-call/)But Mr McGowan says there is no point in pursuing a travel bubble.

"There is no benefit," he said on Thursday.

"All we'll do is lose jobs were we to open to those (jurisdictions).

"The other states want us to open the border so that West Australian tourists will flood east, not so that people from the east will come here.

"They're only saying all this for very self-interested reasons because we have higher incomes, we have people that are more used to travelling and therefore we'll have more tourists go from Western Australia to the east."

The comments have frustrated industry groups, which have called on the McGowan government to provide certainty on the easing of border restrictions.

"The West Australian business community expects that decisions regarding the removal of border restrictions will be made solely on health advice, not on the basis of economic protectionism," Chamber of Commerce and Industry WA chief executive Chris Rodwell said.



Pathetic individual that every sensibly minded ALP pollie should be disowning.



(https://www.kiamaindependent.com.au/story/6950499/palmer-cci-slam-mcgowans-wa-border-call/)

[chris69]

So what's this got to do with general fishing ???? absolutly nothing .

[Dignity]

So what's this got to do with general fishing ???? absolutly nothing .

I know many concerns stated here are valid but it seems admin has slipped up on this one, 105 posts, wait now 106, should have been relegated to the The Bilge section a long time ago.

[Lovey80]

Steeler,

I sit on the fence with this one. WA should certainly open up to SA/NT/TAS immediately as they have effectively achieved elimination like WA. QLD won’t be far behind I think.

But WA is effectively open for business internally. While NSW and down the track VIC , could be said to be using the right strategy with the hot spot lock downs. NSW is using a strategy the keeps themselves economically open while keeping the virus at manageable levels. But that’s not elimination. It still leaves the door open for the virus to get from NSW into WA. I don’t think WA residents should be put into a position where it’s possible that they find themselves where NSW is now because NSW wants to take a different strategy.

[Noelm]

I don't see what the big deal is with borders being closed, why do people have this compelling need to go to (say) QLD? People stay in your own state for a while, big deal....I know tourism suffers, but, NSW people go caravanning and spend your money here, QLD do the same, Victoria, stay home, look around, you might be surprised.

[Steeler]

I don't see what the big deal is with borders being closed, why do people have this compelling need to go to (say) QLD? People stay in your own state for a while, big deal....I know tourism suffers, but, NSW people go caravanning and spend your money here, QLD do the same, Victoria, stay home, look around, you might be surprised.


Seriously Noel, This is not about grey nomads and people scooting around on mopeds.

Elimination was never the purpose when we shut up shop it was the opportunity to prepare, We have achieved that in spades and learnt plenty from Vic and NSW screw ups.

This its all about tourism is just BS utter garbage.

Tell a FIFO worker or similar who have not seen there kids in some cases since Feb/Mar its no big deal. Am sure they will appreciate your no big deal sentiment defence for not seeing there 7 and 3 yr old children in 6-7 months.

We are a federation and about time we started acting like one.

[blacklab]

I don't see an issue with border closers either, it's getting a handle on all things Covid.
Queensland want's SA to open, as they know that SA's travel, but most north of them don't use SA as a holiday destination.
It's been near 18 months since we last holidayed, we were suppose to be in New York now, as we speak, pretty frustrating. But the worst part of the border closures, is our God daughters wedding, cancelled in March, re scheduled for December 2nd in Kiama NSW and it looks like the borders may still be closed by then. It will be devastating to miss that, we even had to convince her not to cancel and to go thru with it, when she realised we may not make it.
I figure we are almost there, opening things up now could be disasterous, look at the rest of the world at the minute.
Hopefully Victoria's internal borders will be open by then, if they are, come December 2nd, we will do 2-3 weeks country Victoria.
Don't leave home till you see your own country, an old sales slogan from the 80's.......

BUT, I do see things being lifted/eased very soon, we have come a long way...

Col

[Noelm]

If you happen to make it to Kiama give me a call, I am only 10mins from there.

[blacklab]

If you happen to make it to Kiama give me a call, I am only 10mins from there.

Ahh. Ok..
We travelled up there looking for retirement options a couple of years back, south of there was just too quiet/small, so we then headed north of Sydney the following year, absolutely loved Port Macquarie.... Didn't spend to much time around Kiama, as it was near the end of our driving holiday.
Our God daughter is getting married in Kiama, as her now retired Grandfather has a farm on the outskirts, which the family has had for 50 odd years.
In March, We had already booked an apartment, over looking the marina there and had arranged to head out on one of the charter boats for a day before the wedding. The charter operator, didn't close down due to Covid, he was telling me the engines on his boat were effected by the smoke from the fires.
I was So looking forward , not only to the wedding, but spending some time around that area Noel, from what I remember as we quickly passed thru, I knew we had to spend some time around that area.
If it goes ahead, and the borders open for us, that would be great to catch up for a coffee or the likes Noel...
For her sake, I hope it does, she lost her father 3-4 years back, So I was suppose to give her away....

Col

[Noelm]

Steeler, I don't count grey nomads as tourists, a "proper" tourist spends money on hotels, theme parks and going out, grey nomads know every free camp site in the entire country. I know they might spend some cash on fuel and some odd cheap food, but that just about covers it (in my opinion) my point with the border closures is that tourism as such doesn't need to perish, all "we" have to do is see our own backyard for a while.

[Steeler]

Steeler, I don't count grey nomads as tourists, a "proper" tourist spends money on hotels, theme parks and going out, grey nomads know every free camp site in the entire country. I know they might spend some cash on fuel and some odd cheap food, but that just about covers it (in my opinion) my point with the border closures is that tourism as such doesn't need to perish, all "we" have to do is see our own backyard for a while.

What about the torn apart families ????.

[Noelm]

Yep, I said way back there is always exceptions, and these have to be dealt with as they arise, but, so far, closed borders seem to be working, it's not ideal, but it's what we have right now.

[Gon Fishun]

Steeler, I don't count grey nomads as tourists, a "proper" tourist spends money on hotels, theme parks and going out, grey nomads know every free camp site in the entire country. I know they might spend some cash on fuel and some odd cheap food, but that just about covers it (in my opinion) my point with the border closures is that tourism as such doesn't need to perish, all "we" have to do is see our own backyard for a while.

It's obvious you don't know a great deal about Grey Nomads. Research it a bit Noel . Australia wide. Sales and repairs of caravans, late model vehicles to be able to tow heavier vans, fuel, diesel and petrol, groceries, lots of meals at pubs and clubs in small towns. Yes, some pull into rest areas. Most use Rec sports grounds and showgrounds and pay. I could go on but it ain't worth it.

[gazza2006au]

Imo a tourist is someone from overseas that cant drive for crap the rest just congest our public services like trains and busses

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[Fed]

Surely FIFO workers can "go home" via a quarantine lockup Steeler?

[shakey55]

Imo a tourist is someone from overseas that cant drive for crap the rest just congest our public services like trains and busses

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That’s racist if I’ve ever heard racism. I can assure you some of the worst drivers I’ve ever encountered hold Australian licences


Shakey - If only I lived near the coast

[Noelm]

It's obvious you don't know a great deal about Grey Nomads. Research it a bit Noel . Australia wide. Sales and repairs of caravans, late model vehicles to be able to tow heavier vans, fuel, diesel and petrol, groceries, lots of meals at pubs and clubs in small towns. Yes, some pull into rest areas. Most use Rec sports grounds and showgrounds and pay. I could go on but it ain't worth it.
I know plenty about grey nomads, my point was, people can caravan in their own state, see what you have got, it's not going to be forever, grey nomads are an entirely different kettle of fish to a family going on holidays to (say) the Gold Coast that stay in a hotel, eat out every day, go to theme parks and do tourist type activities everyday.

[gazza2006au]

That’s racist if I’ve ever heard racism. I can assure you some of the worst drivers I’ve ever encountered hold Australian licences


Shakey - If only I lived near the coastI find that hard to believe.

Australian drivers may be bad drivers to our rules and laws in australia but world wide we have seen absolutely nothing

How do u train the bad australian drivers in countries with dirt roads, no lights, no round abouts, no signs what so ever

Than bring them to australia for a spin around the city in sydney...

I think your being too narrow minded because u probably grew up a custom to australian driving rules

Racist highly likely... you may like sitting behind someone doing 45 in a 70 zone with double lines for 30mins but that pisses me iff the most now if they were taught to drive in australia they'd be sitting on 70 give or take 5+- these people are lucky i only have high beam that goes unsceen in the day haha and yes when i have a horn i road rage because 25 under the limit is not acceptable

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[Steeler]

Surely FIFO workers can "go home" via a quarantine lockup Steeler?


Nope, Watching PM the other night and they sighted numerous situations where FIFO workers in WA have not seen there families since the beginning of the year. many of these had kids under the age of 10.

This is the bullshit in it all, These stupid state premiers with self serving interests are keeping these borders closed and hiding behind crap like we don't want tourists or in the case of that peanut in WA who blatantly cited finances for his decision to maintain closures. He doesn't want WA residents leaving WA spending money interstate and then returning hassle free. He has maintained the border closures to deter WA residents from spending anywhere but in WA.

Ask yourself would that be tolerated as a stand alone issue any other time to close a border ?.

There is a real hidden human cost to all these unnecessary border closures, But as long as some can hide behind the old we don't want tourists excuse those people will be forgotten. That is exactly what these self serving state premiers want you to do.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-03/forgotten-fifo-workers-and-their-families-during-covid/12610390

Its about time we opened up, made people take responsibility for there own actions and safety and most importantly quit with the " Its all about me " so keep the country closed rubbish.

This starts with some sub human state premiers and there federal colleagues who don't have the courage to call them out for there political opportunism.

Has that Janette Young been allowed back out in front of the cameras in the last couple of days ?. Every time she makes a public statement not in tune with Annastacia Stayaways political purposes she gets sent to Coventry for a few days so her comments can't be followed up on with her.

[TheRealPoMo]

Fact is they may not suffer for their own actions but others might.
A FIFO might bring it in and is willing to risk his wife and kids but what about the rest of the community?
The cancer victim next door on Chemo, or the old guy across the road with lung disease?
All about me...

Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk

[Steeler]

Fact is they may not suffer for their own actions but others might.
A FIFO might bring it in and is willing to risk his wife and kids but what about the rest of the community?
The cancer victim next door on Chemo, or the old guy across the road with lung disease?
All about me...

Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk

All valid points but elimination was never the plan was it . Getting to a manageable level was, Aren't we there now ?.

[Fed]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-03/forgotten-fifo-workers-and-their-families-during-covid/12610390
Those FIFO workers all had and still have choices, what have we become, crying to the Govt when things don't go perfectly for you? BooHoo, suck it up & do something about it instead of wanting someone else to fix it for you.

FWIW I think flattening the curve has morphed into community transmission elimination and now there's talk of home quarantine instead of hotels which is the dumbest idea that's come out since this whole thing started.
Hopefully they are only kite flying.

[Lovey80]

All valid points but elimination was never the plan was it . Getting to a manageable level was, Aren't we there now ?.

That was always a case of managing expectations knowing how easily it could have got away from them. At the time half the world was going nuts, so stating elimination as the goal would have been setting them up to fail.

as it is we are close to elimination in all bar one state. Opening and closing every 10 minutes for long period could harm more than the lock down does.

[NAGG]

Steeler, I don't count grey nomads as tourists, a "proper" tourist spends money on hotels, theme parks and going out, grey nomads know every free camp site in the entire country. I know they might spend some cash on fuel and some odd cheap food, but that just about covers it (in my opinion) my point with the border closures is that tourism as such doesn't need to perish, all "we" have to do is see our own backyard for a while.

That is absolutely spot on - I've spoken to enough of them , know some of them ( incl my neighbor & a good mate) ....... I've sat around them whilst "sundowning" & listened to them discuss this kind of stuff. Caravan parks are a necessary evil in a lot of their minds.
There are towns that are recognising this & have basically shut down some of these free spots that the council maintains ..... the cost benefit does not stack up. I dont know how many times I've spoken to small business owners in little towns & mentioned the subject - quite common to hear a "nah , mate " they pull up just outside of town or at a local park .... bring out their chairs & make their lunch or dinner. Watch the roll in at places like Benaraby on the south side of the river or just up the road at Calliope on the north side of the river. Shoalhaven river just outside of Braidwood .... it's the same. I've done probably 80,000Ks of towing my boat through NSW & Qld over the past decade - towns do not generally thrive on the grey nomads.
The other end of the spectrum - are fishoes ...... Fishoes actually spend money & spend big in local communities . Accommodation , Fuel , bait , ice , beer ...... & they love their pub meals after the end of a big day on the water. ..... it's a massive difference. These shutdowns have stopped the travelling fishoes who do actually bring money in.

Chris

[Steeler]

what have we become, crying to the Govt when things don't go perfectly for you? BooHoo, suck it up & do something about it instead of wanting someone else to fix it for you.

Not sure what your are insinuating there Fed, Will have to clarify it for me ?.

It is less Govt control people in this situation find themselves wanting not more ?. There not interested in hiding under a doona, Benefiting from either Govt Jobseeker or keeper.

[bluefin59]

That is absolutely spot on - I've spoken to enough of them , know some of them ( incl my neighbor & a good mate) ....... I've sat around them whilst "sundowning" & listened to them discuss this kind of stuff. Caravan parks are a necessary evil in a lot of their minds.
There are towns that are recognising this & have basically shut down some of these free spots that the council maintains ..... the cost benefit does not stack up. I dont know how many times I've spoken to small business owners in little towns & mentioned the subject - quite common to hear a "nah , mate " they pull up just outside of town or at a local park .... bring out their chairs & make their lunch or dinner. Watch the roll in at places like Benaraby on the south side of the river or just up the road at Calliope on the north side of the river. Shoalhaven river just outside of Braidwood .... it's the same. I've done probably 80,000Ks of towing my boat through NSW & Qld over the past decade - towns do not generally thrive on the grey nomads.
The other end of the spectrum - are fishoes ...... Fishoes actually spend money & spend big in local communities . Accommodation , Fuel , bait , ice , beer ...... & they love their pub meals after the end of a big day on the water. ..... it's a massive difference. These shutdowns have stopped the travelling fishoes who do actually bring money in.

Chris

Not up here in Cooktown mate things are busy as [emoji106][emoji106][emoji41][emoji41]

[Dignity]

Not up here in Cooktown mate things are busy as [emoji106][emoji106][emoji41][emoji41]

I wonder if anybody has actually done a survey on how many grey nomads free camp. I know of some who do and many many more who don't and wouldn't even think of it, as I regularly used to stay in cabins and loved to sit around with the caravaners of an evening chatting, buying beers if they site had facilities or finding out where in town had the best/coldest beer and best meals. I found it was a great way of travelling.

And yes, I have free camped many times, usually on a road trip up to the cape or Daly etc where we would pull in throw some basic sleeping gear up and depart in the very wee hours of the morning. Often it was used as a strategy to stop some of our illustrious buddies from getting so pissed at the pub that departure was delayed.

[bluefin59]

I wonder if anybody has actually done a survey on how many grey nomads free camp. I know of some who do and many many more who don't and wouldn't even think of it, as I regularly used to stay in cabins and loved to sit around with the caravaners of an evening chatting, buying beers if they site had facilities or finding out where in town had the best/coldest beer and best meals. I found it was a great way of travelling.

And yes, I have free camped many times, usually on a road trip up to the cape or Daly etc where we would pull in throw some basic sleeping gear up and depart in the very wee hours of the morning. Often it was used as a strategy to stop some of our illustrious buddies from getting so pissed at the pub that departure was delayed.

There is a council free camp at the racecourse here in Cooktown but it is prone to , midges and you must be self contained ,the park we are working in is flat out and have the no vacancy sign up more than not . Down town everyone is happy as and are making good dollars at the moment ,we are leaving in 3 weeks after being here for 4 months and some of the tales I could tell would blow most peoples minds as far as fishing goes . But one word of warning up this way is that crocodiles are everywhere don’t underestimate them and it’s bloody windy up this way and I saw a number of blokes leave here with great expectations crushed but that’s another story . This place and any where up here at the moment needs to be booked well ahead ,even lake field and Melville are being patrolled for permits big time at the moment . Matt

[Fed]

what have we become, crying to the Govt when things don't go perfectly for you? BooHoo, suck it up & do something about it instead of wanting someone else to fix it for you.

Not sure what your are insinuating there Fed, Will have to clarify it for me ?.

It is less Govt control people in this situation find themselves wanting not more ?. There not interested in hiding under a doona, Benefiting from either Govt Jobseeker or keeper.
Sorry Steeler I should have said crying to the press or anyone else that would listen in the hope of influencing the Govt to stop the border lockdown.