PDA

View Full Version : Marine Radio - Do You Need One



The Complete Angler
19-12-2019, 03:22 PM
Hi All

This may seem like a silly discussion but I have been doing some research as to where I actually need a marine radio and according to QLD law, you don't.
I have been looking all over the place and have found the QLD Government list of safety equipment which only states that an EPIRB or PLB is required if going into open water whereas other states make it mandatory to have a radio if going more than 3NM or thereabouts out. Can anyone else back this up or is there other facts out there that i have missed? Apart from the obvious that a radio is there for safety, I only have a 4.1 tinny so wouldn't be going out 50km and rarely head out into open waters even, so didn't see the need to own one.

Cheers

banshee
19-12-2019, 04:47 PM
I wouldn't consider putting to sea without one,but then again I don't own a mobile.

NAGG
19-12-2019, 05:12 PM
Here is a link of what you need for open waters -

www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/maritime/safety-rules/safety-equipment-table-checklist-open.pdf (http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/maritime/safety-rules/safety-equipment-table-checklist-open.pdf)
(https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/maritime/safety-rules/safety-equipment-table-checklist-open.pdf)
If you go beyond the 2NM limit - you need a radio & epirb

Maritime enforce these regulations & they are on the water everywhere …….


Chris

gazza2006au
19-12-2019, 05:13 PM
I thought mobiles only work so far out? Having a radio is a good thing even a portable so if the boat sinks u may just have that life line in your pocket or clipped onto your shirt and some are waterproof

Sent from my SM-G900I using Ausfish mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=91595)

scottar
19-12-2019, 08:33 PM
I would contact MSQ (Marine Safety Queensland) or Qld Boating and Fisheries for a definitive answer. That said, in Queensland, I can't locate any literature that would indicate it compulsory. Other states it certainly is.

NAGG
20-12-2019, 05:50 AM
I would contact MSQ (Marine Safety Queensland) or Qld Boating and Fisheries for a definitive answer. That said, in Queensland, I can't locate any literature that would indicate it compulsory. Other states it certainly is.

looks pretty definitive to me

www.msq.qld.gov.au/Safety/Safety-equipment-recreational-ships.aspx (http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/Safety/Safety-equipment-recreational-ships.aspx)

shaungonemad
20-12-2019, 08:36 AM
I can’t see anywhere where it says that it is a requirement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

disorderly
20-12-2019, 09:13 AM
Nah mate....you don't need a radio in QLD...

Mobile phone is helpful otherwise you will look like a goose if you have to activate your EPIRB to get home because of a minor engine problem..;D

blacklab
20-12-2019, 12:49 PM
My only comment would be, Why the hell WOULDN'T you want to have one..????
For a pretty small outlay, most times less that a tank of fuel, or a fraction of the cost of your tackle, probably up there with the best purchase you could
make for your boat........
Just saying...

Col

The Complete Angler
20-12-2019, 01:11 PM
Here is a link of what you need for open waters -

www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/maritime/safety-rules/safety-equipment-table-checklist-open.pdf (http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/maritime/safety-rules/safety-equipment-table-checklist-open.pdf)
(https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/maritime/safety-rules/safety-equipment-table-checklist-open.pdf)
If you go beyond the 2NM limit - you need a radio & epirb

Maritime enforce these regulations & they are on the water everywhere …….


Chris

Thanks. That is good to know for NSW water, it doesn't apply to QLD waters though.

The Complete Angler
20-12-2019, 01:13 PM
I would contact MSQ (Marine Safety Queensland) or Qld Boating and Fisheries for a definitive answer. That said, in Queensland, I can't locate any literature that would indicate it compulsory. Other states it certainly is.

Good idea, i might do that. That's what i was getting at in my post, there is nothing that states it's law to have one.

The Complete Angler
20-12-2019, 01:16 PM
My only comment would be, Why the hell WOULDN'T you want to have one..????
For a pretty small outlay, most times less that a tank of fuel, or a fraction of the cost of your tackle, probably up there with the best purchase you could
make for your boat........
Just saying...

Col

Of course. I have just purchased a portable one to be on the safe side. Like I mentioned I don't go out too far into open waters but far enough so that my mobile isn't quite receiving signal. They aren't exactly cheap but I have one. I'm saying there's no QLD rule on having one like most other states.

The Complete Angler
20-12-2019, 01:17 PM
looks pretty definitive to me

www.msq.qld.gov.au/Safety/Safety-equipment-recreational-ships.aspx (http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/Safety/Safety-equipment-recreational-ships.aspx)


I have seen this list many times, but where does it mention a VHF Radio is required? It doesn't lol

Dignity
20-12-2019, 01:36 PM
I have seen this list many times, but where does it mention a VHF Radio is required? It doesn't lol

Nagg didn't say it was compulsary, he was saying it was definitive which also means if it's not listed it isn't compulsory.

disorderly
20-12-2019, 01:41 PM
My only comment would be, Why the hell WOULDN'T you want to have one..????

Col

I have a VHF radio...but I guess I that makes me a criminal because I don't have a licence …

From what I can gather to get one …

I have to first do an online course, exam and then pay for a licence....These guys charge almost $300....

https://www.marineradiolicence.com.au/enrol-marine-radio

I refuse to pay that ...its bureaucracy gone mad...

blacklab
20-12-2019, 04:07 PM
Don't need a licence to have one, or neither to use it in an emergency either, perfectly legal.
Courses down here are around 200, not bad considering, or just have it on for the reports and it's there for an emergency....

Col

NAGG
20-12-2019, 04:13 PM
Nagg didn't say it was compulsary, he was saying it was definitive which also means if it's not listed it isn't compulsory.

100% correct ….. Ta

Chris

Jason Green
20-12-2019, 06:27 PM
First priority is safety not just yours could be someone and there kids 5 k away from you or it could be you and your kids buy one do the course you only have to pay once in your life and maybe one day you could save some ones life it’s pretty simple even 2 k offshore with a big current you are going to have trouble getting to safely anyway that’s my opinion safety first


Sent from my iPhone using Ausfish forums

banshee
20-12-2019, 06:58 PM
I have a VHF radio...but I guess I that makes me a criminal because I don't have a licence..........

Yeah......Same.

gazza2006au
20-12-2019, 07:39 PM
Col is right for NSW u can have a radio and not be licensed and u can still use it in emergency's without getting in to trouble



Sent from my SM-G900I using Ausfish mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=91595)

Dignity
20-12-2019, 10:23 PM
While States may not have specific laws around licencing VHF radios my understanding is that federal statutes over ride them, as per following:

https://www.amsa.gov.au/qualifications-training/domestic-qualifications/marine-radio-qualifications

blacklab
21-12-2019, 11:02 AM
I intend on doing my licence when the boat goes back on the water.
But officially, you are not required to have a licence, until you transmit with the radio, owning one and having it in your boat is not an offence.
As well as, in the case of an emergency, no licence is required to transmit.
All state and federal laws, are for the actual transmitting use of the radio.
I've always had one fitted, it was generally always on, listening, but have never pushed the microphone button....
Can probably see the day that it becomes mandatory, however, currently, licencing for ownership is not mandatory.
Now that the other band is vastly becoming obsolete, more and more will need or be required to have one, so law changes are probably on there way....

Col

disorderly
21-12-2019, 12:41 PM
But officially, you are not required to have a licence, until you transmit with the radio, owning one and having it in your boat is not an offence.

I've always had one fitted, it was generally always on, listening, but have never pushed the microphone button....
.

Col



Col how do you know if your radio actually transmits....?

I do regular radio checks with VMR to make sure everything is in working order and they can hear me load and clear....peace of mind 60-70kms out is more important to me than adherence to some moronic bureaucrats moneymaking idea ..

blacklab
21-12-2019, 03:01 PM
Col how do you know if your radio actually transmits....?

I do regular radio checks with VMR to make sure everything is in working order and they can hear me load and clear....peace of mind 60-70kms out is more important to me than adherence to some moronic bureaucrats moneymaking idea ..

LOL, Totally agree disorderly, I Don't honestly think they worry to much about radio checks, as they shouldn't, it's more about the clowns that fill the airways with rubbish use and hinder the commercial users etc.
My official word, is I listen only ( never pushed the microphone button in anger) but I too do occasional checks myself....
I've just installed a brand new unit in my current rebuild, I'll try and do the course before she is water tested, but won't panic if I don't get around to it.
I think it's a great piece of equipment, along with mobile phones and epirb etc, I don't think anyone has ever been done for quick radio checks or the likes, to my knowledge,, but I do see the day though where they perhaps police it a bit more , I think they do see that it could very well save the lives of us un licensed user......

Col

Dignity
21-12-2019, 05:31 PM
Interesting thing about radio checks, most people do them just outside the harbour, i.e. very close to shore. Mine worked fine logging in and off but after a number of years, 5 km out I couldn't raise my mate or talk to him, turned out the antenna was a little stuffed, replaced it and it has worked well after that as expected.

Licences are granted for life so not a big cost and quite a few VMR's do them. They are worthwhile as they do give you a better understanding of what your radio can and can not do and also what you can/can not do. Seems quite a few people don't realise there is a silent period on some channels for emergency requirements, and as mentione3d plain needless chatter.

I have one, use it as I do cross bars, amazing the number who don't bother calling in for safety sake, the local Caloundra bar (which is quite benign most times) has quite a few roll overs especially over the festive season, they are not reported in the media but its usually other boaties or people on shore that call in the rescue services. Often it is a couple a week, sometimes two the same day.

Edit: This year I had to use a radio due to an emergency and was glad that I had done the course, albeit many years ago but it helped me no end.

banshee
21-12-2019, 06:08 PM
.................... Seems quite a few people don't realise there is a silent period on some channels for emergency requirements, and as mentione3d plain needless chatter. .....................

A couple of people I know have a simple label made up out of Dymo tape on the hand piece that simply reads 'TIME'.

Ah Me Ting
21-12-2019, 10:22 PM
Interesting thing about radio checks, most people do them just outside the harbour, i.e. very close to shore. Mine worked fine logging in and off but after a number of years, 5 km out I couldn't raise my mate or talk to him, turned out the antenna was a little stuffed, replaced it and it has worked well after that as expected.

Licences are granted for life so not a big cost and quite a few VMR's do them. They are worthwhile as they do give you a better understanding of what your radio can and can not do and also what you can/can not do. Seems quite a few people don't realise there is a silent period on some channels for emergency requirements, and as mentione3d plain needless chatter.

I have one, use it as I do cross bars, amazing the number who don't bother calling in for safety sake, the local Caloundra bar (which is quite benign most times) has quite a few roll overs especially over the festive season, they are not reported in the media but its usually other boaties or people on shore that call in the rescue services. Often it is a couple a week, sometimes two the same day.

Edit: This year I had to use a radio due to an emergency and was glad that I had done the course, albeit many years ago but it helped me no end."Licences are granted for life so not a big cost"

Hmmm, not according to this:

Licence period

We issue most maritime ship licences for 1 year.

From here: https://www.acma.gov.au/licences/maritime-ship-radio-licence



Sent from my Nokia 6.1 using Ausfish mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=91595)

Noelm
22-12-2019, 06:06 AM
Did my "license" years ago, and a VHF certificate of competency is for life.

Dignity
22-12-2019, 07:15 AM
Ah Google, use the wrong word and it will give us an answer we're not looking for.

We shouldn't be using the word "licence" as that is a commercial requirement and does fall under AMCA rules and regs, we should be referring as Noelm has pointed out to "Certificates of Proficiency", these are held for life and come under AMSA rules and regs and what is required for both VHF and MF radios.

scottar
22-12-2019, 09:29 AM
looks pretty definitive to me

www.msq.qld.gov.au/Safety/Safety-equipment-recreational-ships.aspx (http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/Safety/Safety-equipment-recreational-ships.aspx)

Funny thing is, I'm 99% sure it used to be a requirement. Safety equipment rules went through a bit of a rejig up here a few years back at which time I suspect they dropped it. I have vivid recollections of a pretty unimpressed copper during a safety gear inspection when they came across me fishing solo a fair way offshore in my tinnie years ago. After he failed to pick me up on anything he settled on giving me an ear full over only having a 27MHz and not a VHF. I did point out at the time that the rules simply stated a marine radio and as such I was not in breach of the minimum standard.

Dignity
22-12-2019, 10:12 AM
Scott, from memory you had to register your old 27 mhz radio and have a licence to own it but not to operate it.

scottar
22-12-2019, 11:10 AM
Scott, from memory you had to register your old 27 mhz radio and have a licence to own it but not to operate it.

Not round these parts Sam ;). Never had one. Technically though - yes. Station licences were a requirement but not an operators ticket. No longer the case for anything less than a HF. ROCOP required for VHF and HF (never bothered with that one either) and now at a commercial level on bigger vessels, also a GMDSS ticket which is required to be revalidated every 5 ? years at a ludicrous cost.

Ronje1
26-04-2020, 11:16 AM
Bit of confusion?

Mostly you guys will come across 27mhz or VHF marine.

The Fed Govt has no licensing requirement for either type of radio as they fall under what's called a Class licence. A class licence is one legally deemed to be issued to ALL persons in Aus. So no payment of licence fees is involved.

There is no qualification needed to operate a 27 mhz radio but there is to operate/use a VHF marine radio.

If its only for your recreational vessel, then you need to obtain a qualification called Australian Waters Qualification (AWQ) in respect of the VHF marine type.

Demonstration of basic knowledge is the requirement and what that translates to can be found here: https://training.gov.au/Training/Details/MARC019

Under Federal law, if you are going to put a VHF marine radio in your vessel then the operator must be qualified or operating under the immediate direction of somebody who is qualified. It's a federal offence under the Radiocommunications Act to fail to comply with that condition.

The Maritime Safety Authority of the State in which you live may or may not have requirements about the fitting of radiocommunications eqpt.

Most States have requirements about EPIRBs and the circumstances relating to compulsory installation (usually about area of operation).

You do NOT need a radiocommunication licence to possess or use an EPIRB as it's covered by a class licence similar to the VHF marine class licence.

You do not need a qualification to use an EPIRB.

Be aware that the VHF marine system is the most widely used in Aus waters and is very effective particularly since the introduction of VHF marine repeaters in the mid 1980s. However, there are places on the Aus coast where long range VHF coverage doesn't exist. Vessels that frequent those waters need long range HF, satellite phone, Inmarsat or a combination for voice communications.

There are requirements for commercial vessels that operate in those remoter areas. Those requirements usually also extend to EPIRBs for distress alerting purposes.

Lucky_Phill
26-04-2020, 02:53 PM
Thanks Ronje1... good explanation.

safety at sea does have " grey areas ", like the MSQ Life jacket requirement. In the list of Standard Safety Equipment for boats... it does not mention the size of the life jacket or even say " life jacket suitable .... it merely states Life jacket levels. We all know you can't fit an adult sized jacket to a 6 year old........... but our common sense tells us we fit & carry jackets appropriately.

Similar with radios..... I have 2 x VHF's in my big boat and have completed my competency, just because I could, not because I had to.

Should the safety items for Qld waters be re-jigged to include VHF's ? Probably........... should users be certified or do a small course ? maybe ? It would help the VMR's and Coast Guards with log on / log off protocols ( Phonetic alphabet ) for one.............. I recently bough a set of UHF's ( hand held ) and wrote to supplier suggesting they include the Phonetic Alphabet within their instruction manual. Seconds or minutes can be lost calling in an emergency with either party not understanding the other. Lives could be lost, but for the simple knowledge and radio use " how to ".

Someone mentioned above about getting the once over from police ( water ? )....... and i had simialr experience. In a 4.1mtr tinnie some 2 k's offshore and local Water Police pulled me up and wanted to see my EPIRB.... told them I didn't need one out here and they looked confused................ so as many of us that don;t know the rules, the people policing the rules are not 100% across them either, particularity the Qld CRFF and Tidal species big and size limits.

All this means you follow the rules to the best of your ability and knowledge and you'll be safe and enjoy your fishing.

cheers LP

Noelm
26-04-2020, 04:49 PM
I guess put simply, call it a license or qualification, is there really a difference?

Ronje1
26-04-2020, 08:40 PM
Yes there is.

A licence is what you need from the Fed Govt to possess a piece of radiocommunications equipment. Some licences you need to buy.

A qualification refers to a Certificate of Competency that you may need to also possess (depending on the type od radio equipment) by undergoing an approved type of competency test.

The Fed Govt has "given" you a licence in respect of a VHF marine radio and it also "gives" you a licences to possess a 27mhz radio as well as an EPIRB. The licences that you are "given" at no fee are called Class licences.

However, you still need to demonstrate that you are competent to operate a VHF marine radio.

There's nothing complicated about operating an EPIRB. Just turn it on so no certificate of competency is needed.

27mhz marine radio is NOT international maritime communications. Its simply domestic to Aus and was introduced years ago to provide cheap maritime communications locally. So again...no qualification certificate is needed.

VHF marine IS indeed an international maritime mobile system and a certificate of competency MUST be held by the user.

You pay to register your car and must also have a certificate of competency to drive it.

Same with some types of radio eqpt. But they mixed up the terms a bit, didn't they? But that's the principle.

Ronje1
26-04-2020, 09:08 PM
I have 2 x VHF's in my big boat and have completed my competency, just because I could, not because I had to.

Phill, you DID and DO have to hold a certificate of competency if they were VHF marine radios. Its a international law and federal govt law about VHF marine radios.

The lists that you see on the Qld MSQ website are simple summations of what the maritime safety law in respect of recreational vessels actually says.

If you want to see what the Qld marine safety law actually says about lifejackets:

Transport Operations (Marine Safety) Regulations:

https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/view/html/inforce/current/sl-2016-0154#sec.8

Part 5Provisions about lifejackets for Queensland regulated ships

21 Application of part
This part applies if, under this regulation, a Queensland regulated ship is required to be equipped with a required lifejacket for each individual on board who is 1 year or more.

22 What is the required lifejacket for a ship
The required lifejacket for an individual on board a ship is a lifejacket of an appropriate size for the individual of the following type—

(a)for a ship, other than a personal watercraft, operating in smooth waters—a lifejacket level 100, 50 or 50S or a compliant inflatable diver’s jacket;


(b)for a ship, other than a personal watercraft, operating in partially smooth waters or beyond—
(i)if the ship is operating in partially smooth waters—a lifejacket level 100 or 50 or a compliant inflatable diver’s jacket; or

(ii)if the ship is operating beyond partially smooth waters—a lifejacket level 100 or a compliant inflatable diver’s jacket;



(c)for a personal watercraft—
(i)if the personal watercraft is operating in smooth waters—a lifejacket level 50 or 50S; or

(ii)if the personal watercraft is operating in partially smooth waters or beyond—a lifejacket level 50.




Note the use of the words in the legislation that are missing from the MSQ: " lifejacket of an appropriate size for the individual ".

Always be wary of the summation of any public servant. In the case of lifejackets (an important item of safety gear), they created confusion by omitting something important. I guess that having some public servant decide on what should or shouldn't be contained in any summation has its drawbacks.

Follow that link. It'll take you to the actual legislation.

The solution? Read the legislation yourself then you aren't relying on what anybody else says.

Qld Dept of Transport (Maritime Safety Qld) handed over management of the commercial fleet in Qld to Australian Maritime Safety Authority (AMSA) a couple of years ago but retained the management of recreational sector.

Dept of Fisheries Qld only check out the recreational boating sector for safety gear and navigation matters under an arrangement with MSQ. MSQ didn't have boats so relied on DAF (who DID have boats) to do work on their behalf.

Now there are surplus MSQ people to look at the recreational sector who never really had much to do with the rec sector before.

MSQ didn't get extra staff but they DID get some new boats.

So expect a surge in compliance activities by MSQ all enthusiastic about having a different role and out to impress.