First boat - recommendations for Port Phillip Bay

[jezzbo]

Hi all,

After a couple of years of successful kayak fishing, my wife and I are expecting our first kid later this year, so thinking kayaking together will be off the cards for a little while. To make things more manageable, and to have a few more adventures closer to home (we're in Chelsea) - we're looking to upgrade to upgrade to a powered boat.

Our main requirements are for something that feels safe in the bay, I know from kayaking how quickly the weather can change and would like something that can get us home safely if the wind blows up all of a sudden. We're both fairly new to the boating scene, so I'm looking for something relatively recent model (say 2008 or later), a 4 stroke engine with low hours, and a good sun cover / bimini (too easy to forget the time of day and get burned when you're distracted by fishing!).

We'd be towing the boat with a VW golf wagon, its rated to tow 620kg unbraked or 1.4T braked. It looks like the smaller (430ish) boats usually come on an unbraked trailer, so may have to go with a 450 for that reason alone, but I'd be interested to hear any opinions regarding the stability and comfort of a 4.3m vs . 4.5m (ish) boat on the bay.

The boat would primarily be used for fishing, with up to 4 adults and two little ones on board. I'm aware that a smaller vessel will be easier to launch and retrieve, so would prefer smaller if practical for the purpose.

Before I look at specific makes and models, I'd like to see if I'm on the right track regarding size. Beyond that, given that I'm new to this, should I steer away from used (or at least, private sales used) boats? Or should I be confident of getting a better deal if I get a pre-purchase inspection carried out? I've also found it difficult to find many used boats that are less than 5 years old, I'm guessing this is because people tend to hang on to them until after the warranty lapses?

All suggestions / advice would be well received at this point.

Thanks in advance for your help!

[Noelm]

A 4.5m boat is going to be pretty cramped with 4 adults, doable, but cramped, I certainly probably wouldn't go too much smaller, there is lots around, so take your time, buying a newer boat with a 4 stroke will be nice.

[littlejim]

Slightly off topic (apols) but is the Golf front wheel drive?
I used to launch and retrieve a 4.5 f/glass boat with a camry (FWD) and things got dicey at low tide. All the weight on the back wheels for retrieval and front wheels spun on the slime at the bottom of the ramp.
If I didn't have someone to sit on the bonnet I had to launch well away from low tide.
4WD Prado overcame the problem.

[catshark]

::)start looking at quintrex for family bay boats, also look out for a few models by different makes called wide body, meaning the beam width is slighty wider indication a more roomier and stable feeling at rest. because your new to boating , trust the reliability of a fourstroke and no smoke for the kids to get sick from, and go minimum 4.5 mtr or try to stretch to 4.8, the golf will still tow it ,those german cars can tow anything. Picture this .... your cruising the PPB in a 4.8 quintrex bowrider with the kids up front and the adults down back comfortably cruising over chop heading back to the ramp with some new season snapper. aghh the serenity

[gazza2006au]

Those 4.3m runabouts really are a toy they are tiny i see people go out in them all the time 3 adults no room to move let alone fish, a mate has a Stacer 4.89 i think it is perfect bay boat very stable fishes ok with 3 but 2 better still has room for 4 if your cruising around whale watching and stuff like that easily goes off the heads i have been out off Botany Bay in 5 meter swell in this boat handled it beautifully 2 up, its pushed a long by a little 40hp mercury oil injected (i know u mentioned 4 stroke) one full 30L tank gets us out most of the day

my mate bought it when it was a few years old it was unlisted and bought for $7500 just by asking around

you need to work out if u want a aluminium or fiberglass hull do some reading both have good and not so good features, with kids i would go for the widest boat possible with the highest freeboard i think they call it just for the kids safety

ALWAYS check the weather if its going to be windy u bet ya its going to blow a gale and wind on the water really rips it up and makes it choppy however a boat is totally different to a kayak, you'd never see me in a kayak just asking to be eatin :o i have fear after that guy was knocked out of his kayak by a great white shark at long reef off Sydney and he couldn't get back on the kayak!!!!

[inveratta]

So many boats...so much choice....all I can offer is that I bought an old haines 16c ...which might be at your top end weightwise...when the kids were young ...cabin for shelter was a great spot for tired ones..etc and bombproof in PPB...but restricted fishing room....they could also water ski once they were older.Interms of second hand....an older f/g boat with an older motor is probably not a great first buy...there are so many lemons out there..

[Andy56]

My experience is that you want a minimum of 4.8 - 5m with a family in PPB. You need to budget for $20,000 plus. Take it from my experience, anything below that price level is a gamble. Others will say lots of bargains, but unless you KNOW, its a trap.
Mid 20s and lots of nice quintrexes and fiberglass boats.
As a first boat, i wouldnt recommend anything older than 10yrs. Sure you may learn a lot, but i know i would rather be out fishing than worrying about issues.
Sure a bigger boat is safer but i have experienced the worst of PPB in a 4.8m quintrex and had no fear. I have seen first hand how harrowing it can be in a smaller tinny too. In one storm, my quinnie was handling the chop well whilst a smaller boat running in parallel was a dangerous roller coaster ride.
High sides is probably the best feature you need to consider with a young family.
Alloy boats give you a bigger bang for your buck when it comes to interior room.
Thats just my experience and i am onto my third boat.

[jezzbo]

Thank you all so much for the valuable info! I think this has definitely helped me rule out the 4.3m option, and I'll seriously suss out whether the car can handle a 4.8m (it is indeed front wheel drive). Regarding budget, low-to-mid 20's is pretty much what I was thinking would be necessary. I haven't seen a huge number of boats listed on boatsales/gumtree that meet the criteria (<10 yrs, 4.5-4.8m, 4 stroke, aluminium) but early days at this stage.

Do you think I should steer clear of private sales given my lack of experience? If so, any dealers you'd recommend?

I had been considering a new 460R Brooker for $22k (https://www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/2016-BROOKER-460R/OAG-AD-15728794/)(I know they're no longer in business) which looked like a decent deal, but I suspect the value has taken a hit given there's no decent warranty on the hull and the nameplate will always make it look 2 years older than it is.

One last thing to ponder - my only option for storing the boat is outside, no permanent cover available but it'll at least be on concrete. I feel like I might displease the boat-gods by sticking a shiny new (or new-ish) boat outside in the weather. Anyone done this? Will a good cover (or two?!) help?

[Andy56]

Thank you all so much for the valuable info! I think this has definitely helped me rule out the 4.3m option, and I'll seriously suss out whether the car can handle a 4.8m (it is indeed front wheel drive). Regarding budget, low-to-mid 20's is pretty much what I was thinking would be necessary. I haven't seen a huge number of boats listed on boatsales/gumtree that meet the criteria (<10 yrs, 4.5-4.8m, 4 stroke, aluminium) but early days at this stage.

Do you think I should steer clear of private sales given my lack of experience? If so, any dealers you'd recommend?

I had been considering a new 460R Brooker for $22k (https://www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/2016-BROOKER-460R/OAG-AD-15728794/)(I know they're no longer in business) which looked like a decent deal, but I suspect the value has taken a hit given there's no decent warranty on the hull and the nameplate will always make it look 2 years older than it is.

One last thing to ponder - my only option for storing the boat is outside, no permanent cover available but it'll at least be on concrete. I feel like I might displease the boat-gods by sticking a shiny new (or new-ish) boat outside in the weather. Anyone done this? Will a good cover (or two?!) help?

you car will tow with no problems. I used to tow a fiberglass runabout with a ford laser ( and they were smallish cars). I never had an issue at the ramps. I currently store mine outside too. I bought a cheap boat cover. The cover only has to last until next april. but so far looks the goods.

[stevej]

a modern 4.2m boat is a lot bigger then a older one so you cant compare them
depth beam everything is just bigger

i have a 4.2 renegade and you could fit 4 adults seated to fish ive had mine to the fads off sydney as well

fishes botany fine but i understand port phillip is a nastier piece of water in the wind

[Andy56]

a modern 4.2m boat is a lot bigger then a older one so you cant compare them
depth beam everything is just bigger

i have a 4.2 renegade and you could fit 4 adults seated to fish ive had mine to the fads off sydney as well

fishes botany fine but i understand port phillip is a nastier piece of water in the wind

yes i agree a 4.2 renegade is bigger than others but i would still like the safety of a slightly bigger boat with children around. The 44o has higher sides. You cant compare 4up fishing with children on board, there is a whole different mind set.

[jezzbo]

After checking out a few more boats today, I think we're definitely sold on the 4.5m size. The car could probably tow a 4.8, but the prices are a bit too high.

I think we've developed a preference for a Quintrex 450 or Stacer 449 - prices new look like around the $30k mark; I did find a Stacer Seamaster 449 w 40HP mercury for $25k new (http://stock.blmarine.com.au/stock_locator/details/OAG-AD-16081142/2018%20STACER%20449%20SEAMASTER), but it doesn't have a braked trailer. After talking to a few dealers, i'm starting to wonder if I'll need to look private to open the options up a bit. Something like this 2012 Quintrex 450 w 40HP Etec (50hrs) (https://www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/2012-QUINTREX-450-Escape/SSE-AD-5647054/?cr=1&psq=%28%28%28%28SiloType%3D%5BDealer%20new%20boats %5D%7CSiloType%3D%5BDealer%20used%20boats%5D%29%7C SiloType%3D%5BDemo%20and%20near%20new%20boats%5D%2 9%7CSiloType%3D%5BPrivate%20used%20boats%5D%29%26% 28%28%28%28%28%28%28Service%3D%5BBoatsales%5D%26Pr ice%3Drange%5B15000..30000%5D%29%26LengthInFeet%3D range%5B15..%5D%29%26Year%3Drange%5B2008..%5D%29%2 6BoatType%3D%5BPower%5D%29%26State%3D%5BVictoria%5 D%29%26%28%28%28SiloType%3D%5BDealer%20new%20boats %5D%7CSiloType%3D%5BDealer%20used%20boats%5D%29%7C SiloType%3D%5BDemo%20and%20near%20new%20boats%5D%2 9%7CSiloType%3D%5BPrivate%20used%20boats%5D%29%29% 26%28%28%28SiloType%3D%5BDealer%20new%20boats%5D%7 CSiloType%3D%5BDealer%20used%20boats%5D%29%7CSiloT ype%3D%5BDemo%20and%20near%20new%20boats%5D%29%7CS iloType%3D%5BPrivate%20used%20boats%5D%29%29%29&pso=0&pss=AdvertAge) looks ok - any thoughts?

[Noelm]

Something to think about, 4.8m and the life jacket laws change, for 20K you should pick up something good, personally I don't like Gumtree for things like boats, do the rounds of your local dealers and see what's available, if buying private, you might get a better price, but pay someone to check it out for you.

[stevej]

fishing with children is where many people get it wrong

you let them fish and just manage them , trying to fish yourself with kids on board just ends in tears
younger kids only handle a hour or two on the boat and are board to tears and babys/toddlers to me is just a no no as exposure can seriously hurt them

i had a 530 cruisecraft and would let them fish for a hour then stop at the beach for a run around
another quick fish then lunch and home,, i wouldnt even take a rod for myself

was more countering gazzas claims small boats were no good, there is a world of difference between old shit and new current boats

[catshark]

i think private sales can be a good opportunity to snag a boat someone else has poured lots of money into, For a good buy you need to see reciepts, service history, and a so on , it doesnt hurt to have a look and although some private sellers are shonky, dealers can be too . be patient, ask lots of questions and perhaps take a second set of eyes. there are many reasons why boats get sold, you just have to filter out the ones that give red flags .

[catshark]

If boat yards are your thing, check out JV marine world in Braeside, i recently went from sydney to melbourne to buy a boat. Why ? the same boat in melbourne will be 6-9 grand cheaper than in NSW or QLD. cost me $400 bucks in fuel to save thousands.

[Chimo]

jezzbo

Save your money and consider this https://www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/EXPRESS-CUSTOM/OAG-AD-16360354/?cr=0&psq=%28%28Service%3D%5BBoatsales%5D%26Make%3D%5BEx press%5D%29%26%28%28%28SiloType%3D%5BDealer%20used %20boats%5D%7CSiloType%3D%5BDealer%20new%20boats%5 D%29%7CSiloType%3D%5BPrivate%20used%20boats%5D%29% 7CSiloType%3D%5BDemo%20and%20near%20new%20boats%5D %29%29&pso=0&pss=Premium

Light to tow, extremely seaworthy, soft riding, PPB will never worry it.
You can play in the surf with one of these if the mood takes you. High safe bow.

If you get sick of the power you can change over to a 4 stroke later.

Should have kept mine, great boats.

Cheers
Chimo

[catshark]

starting to see a few of those express customs, looks like a good lilttle sea rig, that etec should be plenty power to push. are these boats aussie made. the high shoulder on it looks cross between a cuddy and runabout. looks like a very good first boat , only 80 hours on motor.

[Chimo]

catshark

When he left Brisbane David Payne took the Express design and patents to Fiji as a longboat and from there it has spent time in Malaysia and now is built in Indonesia all be it in a simplified form http://www.etamaxsumatra.com/express-200.html They were sold here as the 5.6 Overnighter the 5.2 the 5.0 and 48 and 4.4 I think. Too different in that they were not welded together but they diddnt leak and helld together well. A friend of mine used to play in the surf with his with no problems.

[catshark]

well there you go , alloy boat with no welds, DUROJOINT proven stronger than welds, some people sure have the nack to invent clever ideas.

[DATCOL]

Hi Chimo This is my Express i have just finished renovation on 117758117759

[Andy56]

If you read the fine print, durojoint is stronger than a weld for plate alluminium under 3mm thick. Does that mean all these boats are less than 3mm thick? Most quintrex/stacer/other brands have 3mm bottoms/sides anyway. Does this mean its not as strong as boats with 3mm bottoms?

personally, not enough bling to make it anything other than a small seller.

[Chimo]

Datcol

Looks good from this distance; is it on the market by any chance?
PM if you wish (serious question.)

Cheers
Chimo

[jezzbo]

Hi all!

I might have found a boat that fits the bill and the budget, but it's a private listing...

2014 QUINTREX 450 FISHABOUT
Mercury 60HP with 50 hours (I think), Garaged, looks good from the photos, outside metro melbourne (Longwarry).
ttps://www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/2014-QUINTREX-450-Fishabout/SSE-AD-5618782

At face value, this looks like a fairly good fit, but I'm curious to get a second opinion, given it's been listed for some time (last updated 31 August) and hasn't moved.
Also, can anyone recommend someone for a pre-purchase inspection in that area (about 1hr east of melbourne eastern suburbs). Looks like it has been serviced by warragul service centre so probably best to get someone independant?

Many thanks!
- Jethro

[Noelm]

PM, member BM on here, he might be close enough to help you out.

[catshark]

hey Jezzbo, i googled that boat your talking, looks a clean outfit, alloy trailer and good HP 60 fourstroke. low hours, the fuel economy would be awesome. usaully a dealer would have sold that with a 40-50 hp max but looks like the one owner selected the bigger power option on sale, thats a feather in your hat, Again you would expect it to be in mickey mouse conditon , however with 50 hours in 4 years, average of 9 hours per year, not a lot of use. and ask for the service history etc ......if it checks out okay , definetly would be a great first boat. With regular 100 hr services, the number of hours of use you could expect from a 4 stroke is around 2000-4000 hours . The only con is it might be a bit squishy with 4 adults and two kids , its really a two adult and one kid boat. good luck

[ben475]

Looks alright.