E-Tec, Optimax, 4 Stroke? Looking at 115hp range

[gazza2006au]

maybe be getting a bit a head of my self but some luck is going my way and i may try to snag a good used outboard for my Baron, budget will be $5000 i aint rich so it is a lot of money i need to make a good choice and only once

looking at possibly E-Tec or Optimax's on the internet which one of the two would u prefer? around the 2005-2007 year range 115hp possibly 130hp need to keep it 4 cylinder for a lighter transom weight so no 150's or bigger

do u think there will be cheaper deals in coming months or harder to source? if i can find a cheaper engine means i can buy the pod instead o building one saves time possibly a month or two

[scottar]

Case by case basis Gazza. Cheap engines are always a gamble regardless of brand.

[gazza2006au]

Scottar would u say one is better than the other? I'm looking for better fuel economy than 1km to 1L of fuel have seen the etec go pretty good roughly 2-2.5km 1L i would be happy with those figures on the Baron but how do the opti's go?

weight would be another thing i need to look into how heavy the 00 era etec and opti's weigh

[catshark]

i believe their is a deadline early next year when dealers wont be able to sell two strokes, New ones i mean, and allthough your budget might be a little shy for a new one , i believe there might a be rush to sell good quality used twostrokes as well, so a bargain or two might present. Also a good time to scope out boat yards to secure a good two stroke that someone has traded up for a fourstroke. l believe fourstrokes are still a bit pricey for the extra weight/power output but consider a mercury for the simplicity to work on and cheaper and more common parts available, plus more mechanics know them .

[scottar]

Opti's are good on fuel but like all engines have their little issues that seem to regularly pop up but not necessarily on every motor - do your research but also bare in mind that brand specific forums concentrate issues on the whole making things potentially look worse than they are . Biggest part of which engine is going to be best will be how well either one has been looked after and what sort of relationship you have with your mechanic (if you use one). I'm getting those sort of fuel numbers (1:1) on a 6 metre glass rig with a 200 big block (3.3 litre V6) E-Tec so a smaller engine on a lighter boat should be better. Good source of info on E-Tec's www.etecownersgroup.com

[Marchy001]

On my boat similar to Scottar’s I’ve had a DF140, F225 yammy both 4 strokes and now a 175 Etec.

DF was good but a little lacking in power for the job. Good on fuel about 1nm per litre top speed 34 knots.

F225 was fun but a bit heavy and not as good on fuel about .7-.8nm per litre top speed 43 knots.

175 Etec is bloody good. Better balanced and .8-.9 nm per litre top speed 40 knots.

Previous boat (5.8m plate) had a 175 Opti and I loved it. 500 hours without fault. Fuel was the same as the current etec at .8-.9nm per litre top speed 38 knots.

Prior to that I had a 90 Opti on a 5m tinny. Another great motor can’t recall figures but it was a good motor. 70,90,115 Opti used to weigh the same.

I love boating I don’t care what colour or what type of engine I have but so far clean tech 2 strokes have been my fav engines.

Buying used is risky but can pay off. Do your research and try to best ascertain the history of the motor. Keep fuel clean and water free no matter what you go with.

Good luck.

[Marchy001]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180905/e91b2166bde0654d10f343037111954e.png

Saw this one on the book face today. Should be able to do what your thinking for the 5k you mentioned.

[Coontakinta]

If looking at DFI 2 stroke, have you also considered Tohatsu TLDI?
Might be hamstrung somewhat by horsepower, as I recall was limited to 115 in that era, but my experience with a 90 was impeccable.
Can't quote numbers like those above but on a 5m plate boat, I was more than happy with fuel burn & reliability.

[gazza2006au]

Thanks guys i have been looking into the E-Tec's and the Opti's the only problems i am seeing with the etec is the fuel injectors go unannounced and take out a cylinder can etecs be bored and honed? can the crankshaft journals be spray welded?

a bit sketchy but i would also consider a etec that has a bad injector and do a full rebuild there is one on the internet but i know nothing about etecs and what i will have to pay a shop to do computer wise this would probably be a better option so i know i have zero hours but the overall cost will not be known and i may blow that 5k budget

the opti's i have read have gearbox problems they are a bit harder to find in a XL shaft but are still on the list to check out

[gazza2006au]

What is the difference between 90hp and 115hp besides 25hp looking at a Honda 90hp 00 era, my boat calculations according to the US Coast Guard is rated for 122hp from memory, i want something that i can back off the throttle but i dont want a slug or over power it plus i need to keep transom weight in check

[Noelm]

Wouldn't even consider a home rebuild on an etec, or an Opti either for that matter.

[Chimo]

Gazza

May I suggest you identify a marine mechanic who you would be happy to have service your older motor and then ask him to find one for you that he will be happy to work in the future.

Older motors are reasonable to get serviced, I know as I have two 115 HP old techs and even though its claimed they use more fuel I suggest you save quite a lot of money in servicing to balance fuel.inputs

Same as my diesel 4.2 turbo; I would not even bother or attempt to service it when the skill and experience of a specialist runs rings around the average mug.. Ditto for outboards, even old ones.

[gazza2006au]

Yeah thanks i wasn't to sure about the etec or opti rebuild as i know they need to be hooked up to a laptop and adjusted, a few years back i rebuilt a mercury 25hp 4 stroke so very capable of rebuilding the carb honda 90hp seems running engines hold a lot of value when they are 4 strokes those old honda 90-130hp's still sell for $6000 and they are pre 2006 a blown up one only sells for $1000-$1500, $4500 for a rebuild i think i could see the better end of the deal being some cash in my pocket and a brand new overhauled engine

i have been looking more into the etecs seems when the older models 2007 were new they didn't last very long lots o reports of blown powerheads, haven't looked to much into the opti's

old school is on the verge of being a Chrysler i think so i really don't want a 2 stroke carb model they are a lot less desirable if i need to sell it to upgrade or downgrade in HP plus choking on the burning oil fumes

[Noelm]

I think I would just sit back and keep an eye out, buying "blown" motors can be OK, but, on modern types it's a gamble at best, parts are very expensive, and some are not really made to be rebuilt financially, something will come up if you keep your eyes open.

[Andy56]

I think you should just sit tight till a good deal/motor comes along. Rebuilds are just a problem looking for a place to happen.
At $5000, you will have a good choice of donks. My experience is that a 90 etec will be as good as a 115 4 stroke in the era you will be looking at. Going from 90 to 115 you will only lose a bit of top end. The real difference comes at 150, then its a big step up. If i was in your shoes, i would go for what ever is in best condition.

[scottar]

Evinrude make their engine software and their service manuals readily available for public purchase (or if you hunt long enough it can be found online). I run a computer on my boat full time for navigation and also have the engine permanently connected for diagnostics - it's not difficult. Frequenting the owners group there are plenty of "home mechanics" that take on things like injector replacement themselves - you just need the injector co-efficient to enter in - that's where the good dealer relationship comes into it. Mercury not so much - asked at the recent Brissy show as I am considering the new V6 200 and was told "no" on the software. Plenty of older E-Tec's still around but there have been continuous improvements over the years - change to a different injector at one stage, different mid sections to allow for exhaust tuning valve lubrication, different mid section adaptor plates (may only be V6) etc. I believe they can be rebuilt but it's not something I have looked into - check the owners group. Opti's have had a reputation for compressor issues (they use compressed air in their fuel atomisation process) although just like anything these days, the failure happened to a mate of a mate's uncle's cousin's neighbour's cat's dog's motor on the internet so it must be true. Such is the legacy of E-bombs and Opti-pops. For every user with issues their is always the guy who has done thousands of hours without issue.

[BigE]

Cant speak for E-Tec but i have had a 90 opti and would have another one without hesitation , as posted in previously on another thread there is a real skill set involved in setting up an opti mine was factory fitted as a new BMT package and while it was good it wasn't anything special. Anyhow after about a year or so i moved and took it to a different place for a service. after a discussion with the new bloke he convinced me to stump up some cash to do a better install on the opti ( and at this point i wasn't unhappy and did not expect much of a change ) well the difference was night and day.

the old opti was faster top end and out of the hole used less fuel at cruise and just sounded crisper all round.
if you do get an opti have someone who knows them well do the fit up, they like lots of good clean 12v power ( like a 1000CCA) and used genuine opti oil to get the best from them.

BigE

[gazza2006au]

Yeah that is my worry Noel i go spend the 5k on a engine and it blows up within a year i would be buggered if that happen i wouldn't have the funds to rebuild it or buy a replacement of similar value

i looked at new 2 stroke motors but the cost between new 2 stroke and 4 stroke wasn't much but i still can't afford 11-13k if a late model 2 stroke popped up that was oil injected i may consider looking at it but they are on there way out and i fear no one will want to buy it if i later try to sell it

[gazza2006au]

Evinrude make their engine software and their service manuals readily available for public purchase (or if you hunt long enough it can be found online). I run a computer on my boat full time for navigation and also have the engine permanently connected for diagnostics - it's not difficult. Frequenting the owners group there are plenty of "home mechanics" that take on things like injector replacement themselves - you just need the injector co-efficient to enter in - that's where the good dealer relationship comes into it. Mercury not so much - asked at the recent Brissy show as I am considering the new V6 200 and was told "no" on the software. Plenty of older E-Tec's still around but there have been continuous improvements over the years - change to a different injector at one stage, different mid sections to allow for exhaust tuning valve lubrication, different mid section adaptor plates (may only be V6) etc. I believe they can be rebuilt but it's not something I have looked into - check the owners group. Opti's have had a reputation for compressor issues (they use compressed air in their fuel atomisation process) although just like anything these days, the failure happened to a mate of a mate's uncle's cousin's neighbour's cat's dog's motor on the internet so it must be true. Such is the legacy of E-bombs and Opti-pops. For every user with issues their is always the guy who has done thousands of hours without issue.
Scottar i read here on AF about the hours some were reporting in the 4 digits on the etec's and they were still running strong but otheres were saying less than 100 hours and powerheads needed replacing

a found a etec review a list of about 15 people complaining about there engines that had let go i could easily spot where most of them had problems and most were due to the injectors however quiet a few of them said there were no errors or sounds when those injectors cause the piston problems

with the etec if i bought a flogged out dead one with the above problem i was only going to do the mechanical work but insaying that idon't know a etec dealer that would possibly take on the other half and do the computer work to reset the extra oil injection for run in and any errors

i had a 75hp etec about 5 years ago i think it had fallen off the back of a boat on the road or possibly off an engine stand, i also bought the software and hooked it up but it had a error code i was tol by the guy who sold it to me it was the EMM but Huey at Huetts Marine said it was likely the wiring harness i ended up selling it as it was because back than there were only 1 company that could repair the EMM and they only done locals in the USA but they are now doing world wide which caught my eye and got me interested in the etecs again

[gazza2006au]

Found another contender a 2008 Suzuki 140hp 4 stroke needs a bit of work but these are still going for $8500 whats everyones thoughts on this?

[Noelm]

I guess it depends what "a bit of work" actually is.

[gazza2006au]

I suspect it needs to be re-ringed Noel and possibly a crank, rods, piston cleaned it was on a cat and submerged but turns over so the owner thinks this one never made it all the way under unlike the other side, the computer was swapped over to old mates new engine and it still worked

i would think the injectors, and possibly the oil pump need to be replaced, the cam cover had been taking off and everything looks fine in there no salt water entry

engine had 700 hours

i am really looking for cheap engines that i can fix so i know its refreshed and i won't be needing a rebuild in 12 months when i won't have the funds

there is a mercury 2008 with a thrown rod i tried looking last night for sleeves but none available do u know do u know if mercury are running nikisil sleeves? because its strange they only make sleeves for 4 strokes to 2004, i think by the pictures the block looks easily repairable but damage extent unknown untill its stripped the block will need welding but unsure about the sleeve, crank will need to be welded and machined on that one journal, motor is going for next to nothing

[Fed]

Stick an old OMC V4 on it & go fishing, wouldn't want to over capitalize and no computers or injection to deal with.
$2-$3K would could go wrong?

[gazza2006au]

I thought about that Fed for the first few runs buying a vintage Evinrude/Johnson in case it falls off the back of the boat LOL ;D but have u seen the prices of second hand old two strokes?

the 70's era models only sell for $1000 but they smash the fuel, the later 90's 00's era sell for $3500 i can buy a blown etec or 4 stroke for that and rebuild it for the same price, the people selling these 2 strokes are asking to much its ridiculous I'll grab a few links from aquick search

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/old-guildford/boat-accessories-parts/evinrude-115hp-outboard-motor/1192225303

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/auburn/cars-vans-utes/120-hp-evinrude/1191861495

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/cowan/boat-accessories-parts/johnson-v4-140hp-outboard/1184693115

its crazy what people are asking for these old engines

[Fed]

They seem reasonable enough, the one at huetts probably comes with a warranty and one of the other ones comes with a boat & trailer. Everything's negotiable remember.
I'd like to see the rest of the trailer beside the motor at huetts, you know them up there don't you?
Surely a good looking bloke could get the one at huetts for $3K.

[gazza2006au]

Huey/Craig is a top bloke and has helped me countless times but i don't think i would spend 3k on that engine for 1.5k more i can get an etec mate that is 15-20 years newer

i reckon within 5 years of the 2 stroke ban coming in those vintage models will be worthless and there value will drop dramatically

I'm looking to keep the boat I'm rebuilding so i need to plan for the future too so the amount of fuel i would save over say 4-5 years, we fish 2-3 times a week/night in summer usual fuel use for my old 70hp 1988 Evinrude was about $40 a day that's about $1000-$2000 in fuel over summer i could halve that amount per season using a etec, opti or 4 stroke

I'll pull a rabbit out of the hat and post one of the engines I'm looking at buying https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/burrill-lake/boat-accessories-parts/90hp-4-stroke-mercury-blown-/1193961259 just its a 2008 mercury ran this block or crankcase from 2008 thru to 2016 so parts are not made aftermarket yet and mercury don't sell cylinder sleeves, this would be a piece of piss to rebuild

[Noelm]

I would be cautious of attempting to rebuild a modern engine, most are not made to be done without very specialised equipment, I also wouldn't buy anything that needed welding, something will come up for sure, I will keep an eye out around here for you.

[gazza2006au]

I have a lot of the equipment for the rebuild i just don't have specific tools that mercury may use for certain parts of the job but i am pretty sure i have everything covered only thing is no access to the computer program

[gazza2006au]

Doing a deal on a Honda guys cannot beat the price for a running engine

[Noelm]

EFI or an old carby Honda?

[gazza2006au]

Hey Noel its suppose to be a Honda BF90 2006 model i got it for $1000 old mate that is selling it was not happy with its performance on Sydney Harbour in July so repowered, in saying 2006 it could be anything from 1995 thru to 2006 people often cannot work out what year model they have so they just rough guess and ball a year

it comes with gauges but the seller had sold the forward controls and he was honest and said it has a leaky thermostat cover he tried to fix it with silicone

has cowling but not pictured, XL shaft just exactly what i needed

[gazza2006au]

Got the Etec home this afternoon i got dicked on the deal the shop swapped the propeller over they took the stainless prop off and put a cheap nasty beat u aluminium prop on it also it was on the pallet ready to go with the cowling on when i got home i took the cowling off to put the engine on the stand and there is a big "B" on the EMM hopefully he didn't swap the EMM to with a bad one

[Noelm]

Give them a call and ask what's going on? if you saw it with a stainless prop, then that's how you should have got it, don't know about the B, did you notice it before? if the dealer is half reputable, they should give you what you paid for.

[gazza2006au]

All good my mistake i thought this one had the SS prop i just checked it were the other two Mercury and Honda i was looking at that had the SS prop could swear this had one yesterday tho I'm losing my s...! old age dementia

the emm looks like it could be a 9 or a b i will try connect some power tomorrow and see if the emm powers up fingers crossed

after trying to lift this bad boy onto the stand and my cousin is 6 foot+ i am 100% not going with a pod it would rip the ass end out of the boat just from the weight i reckon the pod would be structurally sound just the amount of leverage on the transom i think it would tear off just towing it to the river

i will keep the forward control for now but sell later to fund new dash mount controls, came with I-Command gauge and GPS but no tacho and no power cables

[gazza2006au]

From my observation it threw a rod on starboard top piston its detached from the crankshaft, those holes in the piston could be the conrod bolts, there are shavings inside the port on the top STB cylinder and there are small chunks of metal on the bottom STB piston too

notice how clean the lower cylinder head is half of it is aluminium colour i think it started to run lean WOT until it chucked the rod

[Noelm]

Looks like a pretty serious event when it let go, is the bottom end OK?

[gazza2006au]

Noel I'm not actually sure where the metal is coming from yet as the top cylinder is the detached rod and there is metal on the bottom piston i have never worked on a E-Tec before but could the cylinders possibly be linked by the exhaust ports and metal has worked its way from the top to bottom cylinder? if this is the case it may only be those two cylinders however if they are are throwing metal around this will be a serious rebuild

possibly looking at
4 new pistons
at lease 1 rod
all new crank and journal bearings
possibly need one new sleeve fitted if the rod snapped

still be worth a rebuild i looked on Gumtree last night and there were only two of these engines for sale $9000 and $9500

[gazza2006au]

Ahh ok those two holes in the piston i reckon old mate in the marine shop drilled those holes to try and pull the piston out with a bolt or a blind bearing puller so i may need a new cylinder sleeve too

[Noelm]

Can you re sleeve them? the piston must be stuck to the bore pretty good? also might explain were the metal shavings came from?

[gazza2006au]

Wait for it Noel... haha this thing absolutely smashed to pieces, i am very surprised and i credit with that extent of damage can u believe the little end and big end bearings still spin freely and smoothly HF! that is unbelievable that those bearings can withstand this kind of punishment and exerted forces as that piston smashed to pieces

cause of fail? i reckon under propping, over revving BOOM!

bottom end in that one cylinder is totally filled with chunks of piston and a small amount of casing, the cylinder sleeve has been smashed a big gaping hole thru the lower portion, the blind crankcase took a hit u can see the hole, the conrod absolutely twisted like crazy look at the top of it

my phone went flat its on charge now i will try get some scope pictures of deep down inside the bottom end

can not get my head around those E-Tec bearings tho!!! holy crappers on every engine i have rebuilt the top end needle bearings are what go first but on this E-Tec they are totally fine and spin effortlessly and smoothly

the top end of the crankcase has some scratching where the sleeve had given way and the flying bits of alloy were getting tossed about that will need to be welded and machined while the sleeve is out, the hole in the blind section of the casing will need welding and machining so far the top end looks rebuildable but not sure about the bottom end yet or the crankshaft journals on that particular cylinder

these first 4 pictures is the piston from the effected cylinder

[gazza2006au]

Here are the crankcase pictures

[stevej]

how can a engine with a rev limiter over rev

it will be lack of lubrication or injector failure

[gazza2006au]

Over revving is just my opinion Steve, lack of oil would have starved the bearings i would think, i seen this exact same problem on my DRZ400E the last owner was doing a burn out on the bitumen like a silly kid and the rod let go exactly the same it obliterated the engine exactly like this E-Tec

There was no piston melting or cylinder wall scoring to suggest a top end lean seizure, it may have been over heated but you'd think the overheat alarm would sound and some sort of reduced throttle would kick in

The piston pin is likely to be bent so i will put it into the hydraulic press tomorrow and press the pin out and take a look at those marvelous bearings haha i will take pictures

so far the list is growing of what needs repairing

crankcase welding
possibly crank journal welded and machined
while the cases are being welded, machined and new sleeve install i will ask to have it pressure washed and blown out to get all the tiny micro bits of alloy out

still don't know how aluminium made it into that lower cylinder i won't know until i tear her down

[catshark]

wow amazing insight, very interesting, those pistons are bigger than i imagined, arent these motors very torquey, only two pistons is that right?

[gazza2006au]

Hey Cat this is the V4 Etec (4 cylinder)

[gazza2006au]

Rick on the Etec forum suggested one of the reed screws may have come lose i think thats more a probabilty over the over revving

[scottar]

Is the wrist pin bearing seized?

[gazza2006au]

Scottar both bearings feel silky smooth the one still attached to the piston and the one still attached to the crankshaft none of the bearings are seized i donno how in such a catastrophic failure

[gazza2006au]

Sorry Noel, yeah the sleeves are replaceable but not oem they have to be made aftermarket there is LA Sleeves and Advanced Sleeves in the USA if u check out there site they say they can make pretty much a sleeve for any engine

[Noelm]

As long as someone will/can replace the sleeve for you, don't know about welding it up, might pay to look for another block? it looks like a lot of damage.

[Noelm]

I have done lots of work on high performance 2 strokes, and, without trying to scare you (because I don't know the V4 etec in detail) first up, doing the crank for roller bearings in not the same as doing one for a car with metal "slipper" bearings, I don't think you will find anyone to do that. I am still sceptical about a sleeve, those are (I think) blind cylinders, and I doubt you will find anyone who can remove and refit a new one, assuming you get a sleeve from the US. Welding the block is not quite as easy as it seems, heat will often distort the actual case and cause assembly problems, it's not impossible, but not easy. Parts costs is going to be high, they are not cheap.

[Noelm]

Just re read a bit, it kind of doesn't look like something (part of a reed) has entered the combustion chamber, because there is little damage on the head, not impossible of course, it could get sucked in and jam between the piston top and the port on the first stroke rather than jump around inside for a bit, it's all guess work as to what happened, kind of doesn't look like lack of oil either, nothing looks "cooked" if you get what I mean, although the heads do look clean and very "dry" was the piston stuck to the cylinder wall, or did it just come out easy?

[gazza2006au]

Hey Noel the blocks are pretty rare to find i looked on ebau au/us/canada there was 1 4cylinder block but i think it was for the 75/90hp HO model but one good thing about the v4 etec is the older model DI ficht i think uses the same block, im actually not sure now if this block can be welded because its a blind cylinder meaning the only way into the damaged section with a tig welder is thru the blind end so it may need cutting out than re-welded probably a big job if it can be done than the sleeves cost about $500 to install

I'm thinking possible a screw has been sucked in thru the air filter as the lower piston has metal on it to

[gazza2006au]

Ah yeah i grabbed the piston with needle nose pliers by those two holes and it just slid strait out

just spoke to a engineering company i have used before he said the resleeve is no problem however i mentioned the grazing of the aluminium wall and he said if it can be welded no problem if it cant be than no good but i suspect they may need to cut out the "blind" section to get into there to weld than reweld the blind section enclosed

i'll see what Huey says he will know more about it

[Noelm]

Seems like if the piston was not stuck, no bearings were seized, then the rod just "let go" should be easy to see if something got in there to lock it up or locate if anything is missing around the intake.

[Fed]

I reckon it got water into the top cylinder, water won't compress so it bent a rod and the bent rod now being shorter started smashing the piston skirt against the blind hole until it broke the rod. After that any metal below the piston can easily migrate to the top of the piston via the by pass port.

Disclaimer: I know nothing about etecs but I did see one once at the boat ramp.:)

[gazza2006au]

Check out the hardened piston pin

[Noelm]

That is shagged, it would have been knocking for a while, probably just kept running it until it sh1t itself, hope the big end is OK, failed wrist pins (gudgeon) is sort of common in DFI engines, I think they are running right on the limit of oil to keep oil use down and emissions low, but, in the main they are good, be interesting to see another piston to compare, plus the big ends, one tip, just in case you don't know, do not mix the rods and rod caps up, they are matched to each other, and cannot be swapped around.

[gazza2006au]

That is shagged, it would have been knocking for a while, probably just kept running it until it sh1t itself, hope the big end is OK, failed wrist pins (gudgeon) is sort of common in DFI engines, I think they are running right on the limit of oil to keep oil use down and emissions low, but, in the main they are good, be interesting to see another piston to compare, plus the big ends, one tip, just in case you don't know, do not mix the rods and rod caps up, they are matched to each other, and cannot be swapped around.

Yeah I'm going to label the rods with a punch or a texta i have read the rods new are frozen than snapped so i don't think i would be able to mix them up each one would have a unique break

I'm keen to see the big in because that is where the money will be on the journals i was quoted a few years back $380 to weld and machine each journal than they need to be hardened so even more money but we will see when i pull her a part, i will be a happy chap if crank is ok

[Noelm]

Does it look "oily" inside, or dry and crap looking? The rod caps are snapped during manufacture, but, you will be very surprised how similar they all are, don't use a punch to mark them, simply remove one and fit it back to its matching rod, maybe a texta too, just for kicks, check rod bolts for reuse, some are not reusable and must be replaced, just don't know about your model.

[gazza2006au]

Spot on Noel these rod bolts are one time use so i will order some new ones, i still don't know the extent of the damage to the other cylinders the spray of metal pieces may have gone thru the exhaust into the other cylinders so i will see when i tear her a part big problem about tearing a part now is we want to move house so i don't want to be losing bits and pieces of the engine if i move between the time of pulling her apart and reassembling, the only worry about pulling it apart also is i wont know where all the hoses go most are pre bent and just slightly different in sizes to each other but a lot of the same size hose has multiple joints

i may just need a big tub to chuck it all in

[Noelm]

For a one off job, it's far better to try to keep pieces together in groups rather than just one pile of bits, also keep stuff as assembled as possible, and rebuild as you reassemble it, take lots of photos and mark odd bits with dabs of paint or similar.

[gazza2006au]

I have 2x 1.8m benches in the shed i use when I'm rebuilding engines but i have been really slack of late and the benches have just cluttered with all tools and bits and pieces of crap its just a real mess so if i strip the Etec i need somewhere to put everything, the Etec is pretty basic just a big block with a few fiddley objects the rest is all hoses it has a mile of them

forgot to reply to your previous question Noel, The block doesn't feel dry but there is some oil just no where near the amount of an old 2 stroke its kind of hard to get pictures with the scope because it reflects light off of what oil film is there the samsung works better tho but i would say there is oil in there its just a very thin film

[gazza2006au]

I just went outside for a look and to measure the lift ring bolt hole 8mm bolt lifts a 184kg engine :o i donno about that... i looked at mostly the hoses i will start to tear the engine down over the weekend i have a couple boxes of those big lunch ziplock plastic bags i will label it as it comes off, a worry will be if the 4 oil injection hoses get miss labelled or i lose the labels... i will try to take it off in bulk and keep as much of the electricals plugged together

stay tuned for some pictures

[Dirtyfuzz]

I’m pulling off a couple of 1990 115 v4 evinrudes with only 200hrs on the clock soon [emoji3]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Noelm]

Do you have a genuine repair manual for reassembly? might be a good investment.

[Chimo]

Hardly run in Fuzz!!

[Dirtyfuzz]

Hardly run in Fuzz!!

And 50 of those hrs I have done in the last 12 months, Just not getting the range I want unfortunately and want my deck space back!


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[scottar]

I just went outside for a look and to measure the lift ring bolt hole 8mm bolt lifts a 184kg engine :o i donno about that... i looked at mostly the hoses i will start to tear the engine down over the weekend i have a couple boxes of those big lunch ziplock plastic bags i will label it as it comes off, a worry will be if the 4 oil injection hoses get miss labelled or i lose the labels... i will try to take it off in bulk and keep as much of the electricals plugged together

stay tuned for some pictures

Some of the etecs use a 3 bolt lifter. Yours may be one.

[gazza2006au]

Do you have a genuine repair manual for reassembly? might be a good investment.

Not yet but i will download one i need it for bolt torque specs and lining up the crank bearings plus any other problems i run into


And 50 of those hrs I have done in the last 12 months, Just not getting the range I want unfortunately and want my deck space back!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk That is why i wanted the E-Tec because of great fuel economy i will be trolling and downrigging a lot so every drop of fuel saved counts


Some of the etecs use a 3 bolt lifter. Yours may be one.
The 130 E-Tec has i think 5 studs in the flywheel and one 5/16th 24 fine pitch thread for the lift ring, i don't know if i want to jerry rig a lift ring or try lift it off if my cousin can give a hand

[Dignity]

And 50 of those hrs I have done in the last 12 months, Just not getting the range I want unfortunately and want my deck space back!


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Has Al talked you into some Yammies.

[Dirtyfuzz]

Has Al talked you into some Yammies.
was a toss up between Yamaha and Mercury and have decided to go Mercury, the 2.1l displacement and command thrust gear box got it over the line


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[gazza2006au]

was a toss up between Yamaha and Mercury and have decided to go Mercury, the 2.1l displacement and command thrust gear box got it over the line


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You'll have to update your signature mate :)

[gazza2006au]

Getting there just need to remove the computer and flywheel plus the wire harness than the block can come off, i need a special male star bit to undo the reeds so can't look in there just yet, there were sand deposits on the top port piston so i suspect it had a blown head gasket i can't explain any other reason how it go in there

port head has been taking off after the pictures, was cutting a cable tie off with scissors and snipped a nice chunk of my finger off with it blood going everywhere i stopped shortly after

kept all my fuel injectors on the rail and with the fuel pump attached seems Evinrude use a special method of shrinking the hoses some how without using clamps so i thought it were best to leave as much stuff together in bulk and just undo it all and take it off in a few pieces

[stevej]

Mate I know you said money’s tight but how much per week would you say you have outlaid per week so far

Cause a 420 renegade with a 50hp four stroke ally trailer and some fitout is only setting me back $125 per week

It’s new and it works and would 90 percent of the type of fishing you want to do

[gazza2006au]

Steve i have owned 4.2-4.3m boats before they are to little for what i plan on doing mate i want to be able to smash my way back thru any chop if a southerly hits and we are out at the FAD's i don't want to be limping back or even placing my self or mates in a hair raising situation

[gazza2006au]

Bloody hell did i get lucky or did i get lucky there is next to no damage on the crankshaft conrod journal in the pic u can see the reflection of the crankcase so it looks as if the journal is burnt but there is no damage, the metal in this E-Tec is as strong as my 14 year old boarder collie!!!

[Noelm]

Not too sure what to do about the overheated crank, just guessing, I would say it was lack of oil, not no oil, just not enough, the roller bearings always go first, looks like it was on the brink of disaster when the rod broke, is the "blue" one the one that had the broken rod?

[gazza2006au]

It's not blue Noel its just the reflection of the crankcase the reed section is reflecting off the journal the top 3 journals are all sweet besides the slight ring on the top cylinder that is the one that let go but the ring around the journal cannot be felt with a finger nail so it is only minor

the last journal on the bottom has me a little worried its slightly burnt hopefully a polish can bring it out

so far on all 4 journals there are no scratches or scrapes there is only coloration and that one ever so light ring

the top STB piston that let go shared a bottom end wall with the top PORT piston so shit got into there too but only a few pieces will show the PORT piston pics now there were still chunks of the other piston inside of this piston when i pulled it out

[gazza2006au]

Conrod pictures light markings but i think they can be reused i will get them double checked

[Noelm]

I'm stating the obvious here, but make sure everything is spotless clean, this is not the sort of motor you assemble outside on the grass, clean the bench, clean your tools, clean your hands, and double wash everything.

[gazza2006au]

my engines get rebuilt in the shed i often rebuild motocross bikes Noel so i know about being clean they are high strung high revving engines that hit the limiter all the time, i rebuilt two bikes in the past year a WR250F and a DRZ400E both still running strong today, my car engine is the only one i rebuilt out of the shed because i don't have a garage that engine is 3.5 years old and about 70,000km's put on it still my daily driver

I'm hopping to have the case welded and new sleeve put in for $1000 maybe wishful thinking, a WSM rebuild kit out of the USA will cost $1250 and a new conrod i think i quoted one at $300 Aus so all up around $4000 for a brand new running engine thats around $1500 cheaper than the used market for a 2007 90hp and it is $4500 cheaper than the same engines on the internet that have had a rebuilt powerhead

[gazza2006au]

Anyone know of a reputable engineering company i can get quotes from on doing the re-sleeve, boring and honing, plus welding the block? if they are good will like them to look at the crankshaft also for a polish or advice

Located in Sydney, I want to get a few quotes

[stevej]

all good just wanted to point out the other option
people rarely get caught out by southerlies they just have no idea what they are doing in terms of checking the weather

id still take a engine that hasn't detonated over one thats been rebuilt for only 1500 difference

[gazza2006au]

all good just wanted to point out the other option
people rarely get caught out by southerlies they just have no idea what they are doing in terms of checking the weather

id still take a engine that hasn't detonated over one thats been rebuilt for only 1500 difference

Steve i am actually saving $5000 by rebuilding my engine than going and buying one already running, the going price for a E-Tec 130hp 2011 model is $9000 with a rebuilt powerhead

the $1500 was comparing what was on the market which was a 90hp 3 cylinder 2007 model for $5500 (my purchase and rebuild will be in total about $4000)

[catshark]

Anyone know of a reputable engineering company i can get quotes from on doing the re-sleeve, boring and honing, plus welding the block? if they are good will like them to look at the crankshaft also for a polish or advice

Located in Sydney, I want to get a few quotes
check out around unaderra area there are a few there close together.

[gazza2006au]

Thanks Cat, Need one that does 2 strokes i could take it to a marine shop but they'll just send it to the engineering company and add an additional cost on for there handling, first shop will be the guy who done my car engine cylinder head and other work on a honda 50hp cylinder head he was pretty cheap too but i suspect the sleeving will sting me as its not a easy process and lots of machining involved

one thing i am worried is the engineering company says they cannot get a welder into weld the block due to the blind cylinder

[Noelm]

Probably ask at a good motor bike shop, they might be able to put you onto someone, I don't think many places do that sort of thing these days, it's more a throw away world, so, if something major happens, you just buy a new one, kind of like the guy that owned this motor did, what exactly do you need doing to the crank? I would reckon lots of fabrication shops could weld the block, but, if it's not accessible, then you're doomed? unless you can source a second hand one, if it is definately the same as the old FICHT, then there is hope.

[gazza2006au]

Probably ask at a good motor bike shop, they might be able to put you onto someone, I don't think many places do that sort of thing these days, it's more a throw away world, so, if something major happens, you just buy a new one, kind of like the guy that owned this motor did, what exactly do you need doing to the crank? I would reckon lots of fabrication shops could weld the block, but, if it's not accessible, then you're doomed? unless you can source a second hand one, if it is definately the same as the old FICHT, then there is hope.
Yeah i think i will have to shop around all engineer companies do 4 strokes because its a typical car engine heat it press cylinder out press new one in but this is a 2 stroke and has pre cut ports in the sleeve that need to line up so its tricky, i was once told everything mechanical can be repaired but at what cost is the question

when the car engineer looks at the block if he suggest getting another one i will ask if the blind section of the block can be cut out than weld the graze than weld back in the blind section

the FICHT DFI is the same block but these blocks are rarer than wooden rocking horse s... that is why the shop i bought the engine from never repaired it they sat on it for 6 months waiting for one to show up

welding is about $120 per hour, last time i was quoted on a 2 stroke resleeve it were something like $400 so I'm looking at a bit of coin

I'll try get the block off today and split it see what the crank main's look like

[gazza2006au]

Forgot the pic

[gazza2006au]

I need to keep the rebuild cost in check because a whole powerhead out of the US cost USD$3100 plus shipping https://www.ebay.com/itm/Remanufactured-Johnson-Evinrude-115-130-HP-V4-60-ETEC-Powerhead-2007-2012/301852824387?epid=1354903538&hash=item4647d49343:g:nroAAOSwpRRWn7Wg

[shakey55]

May be worth a look or phone call

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/singleton/boat-accessories-parts/evinrude-etec-115-outboard-powerhead-and-parts/1189737806

http://www.southcentraloutboards.com/search?q=websitesub:%22Complete%20Powerheads%22


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[Noelm]

Yep, I reckon I would chase that up, you just never know, it would sure save a heap of time and money, wonder what happened to it?

[gazza2006au]

Thats a great find Shakey but i cam really iffy about stuff out of WA if u scroll thru the Gumtree adds you'll be amazed, WA has 10% of our population but Gumtree is absolutely flooded with shady adds from WA alot of it is con's and i think this add could possibly be too as that powerhead is worth easy $2500 here in Australia

[gazza2006au]

If u look at that guys heads my heads are running way more leaner do u think my problem was oil injection related?

[Noelm]

You can only guess with the evidence you have, but, seeing as the bearings went first, breaking the rod, my "guess" would be (as I think I said before) perhaps low oil, not no oil, remember the oil does not mix with the fuel (kind of) like the old VRO models do, the fuel (with no oil) is direct injected into the combustion chamber, and the oil is "injected" into the crankcase, I do believe that a small amount of oil is also supplied to the combustion chamber? and the air transferred to the combustion chamber picks up a small amount of oil too, the e-tec is quite "high tech" compared to old carb 2 strokes, that's how they achieve their clean air rating. I would still contact that guy on gumtree, just to sus it out.

[gazza2006au]

Yeah the way the E-Tec oil system works is the oil is delivered thru the front of the cowling to the oil pump the oil pump than delivers oil to the crankcases at the bottom end than there is one hose that travels to the back of the powerhead and attaches to a delivery dividing device where the oil is than split 4 ways and the oil is sent to each cylinder, possibly one of these oil injection hoses or fittings were blocked on that one or more cylinders

[gazza2006au]

Interesting just got off the phone to a outboard mechanic he asked which cylinder went i said No:1 he said the furtherest away from the gearbox is overheat issue and if it were oil injection all the cylinders would have went at the same time

[stevej]

so after fixing the power head
how do you know it wont happen again as you dont know what component failed in the first place

and things in WA are cheaper purely cause of the distances involved for freight and the smaller population to sell too, not speculated scam rumors
it may as well be another country over there.

[gazza2006au]

Steve its a water pump impeller fail but not confirmed yet, while i was unbolting the powerhead i went to unbolt the gear shift linkage and it were already unbolted so i can guarantee the shop i bought the engine from looked at the impeller already as a possible cause of failure

what the mechanic said makes sense as the highest cylinder will be the last to receive water and also the hottest cylinder of the 4 and this is the one that failed

the engine was probably going at a decent speed i also remember reading about the impellers and it was mentioned to always use OEM impellers in E-Tec's due to the 3 year no service and if someone ran a aftermarket impeller it was at there own risk, i reckon the one in this engine was aftermarket but just guessing

i am stuck as for removing the powerhead one seized bolt stuck holding it down at the rear center its a tight fit but i may have to get out the tig welder and heat up the bolt, i still have the magneto attached so this has to come off before i weld or i'll fry it

[scottar]

Only fly in the ointment with the overheat theory is the engines own protection circuitry. Not sure how many temp sensors are in the V4's but I know my V6 has 3 and if any of them break over about 90 degrees celcius the alarms start singing. There are plenty of reports online of punters with overheat issues where an impeller change has sorted it out I still wouldn't rule out a low oil delivery issue to the cylinder that failed as per Noel's suggestion or possibly an injector delivering too much fuel and washing out the lubrication on that cylinder a bit. Hard to tell. Certainly don't want to rule out anything as far as bolting it back together and finding one of the parts still in service caused the failure the hard way. The shop probably dropped the leg - pretty standard fault diagnosis starting point to try and isolate an issue to powerhead or lower unit. Just because they have pulled it doesn't mean they suspected impeller. Did they give you a EMM report. If they didn't it might be worth seeing if Huett's can give you one - may give some more pointers as to the cause.

[gazza2006au]

Only fly in the ointment with the overheat theory is the engines own protection circuitry. Not sure how many temp sensors are in the V4's but I know my V6 has 3 and if any of them break over about 90 degrees celcius the alarms start singing. There are plenty of reports online of punters with overheat issues where an impeller change has sorted it out I still wouldn't rule out a low oil delivery issue to the cylinder that failed as per Noel's suggestion or possibly an injector delivering too much fuel and washing out the lubrication on that cylinder a bit. Hard to tell. Certainly don't want to rule out anything as far as bolting it back together and finding one of the parts still in service caused the failure the hard way. The shop probably dropped the leg - pretty standard fault diagnosis starting point to try and isolate an issue to powerhead or lower unit. Just because they have pulled it doesn't mean they suspected impeller. Did they give you a EMM report. If they didn't it might be worth seeing if Huett's can give you one - may give some more pointers as to the cause.

Yeah I'm only speculating at the moment if oil pumps were cheaper i would replace the whole thing with a brand new one or is there some type of place that can test these things? I'm a bit iffy about reusing the oil pump and i most defiantly want all 4 injectors checked and cleaned before i start her up

actually your on to something i remember that top bearing being coated in oil but the lower bearings were drenched in oil to the point they stuck to the crank, now thinking about it that cylinder that let go rod bearings were drier than the others but i dismissed it because the cylinder was open for 6 months and may have dried out a little

can the EMM be tested off the engine harness? if so i will see if the boat code guy will come out and read it for me, i really don't want to drop the EMM off to a shop and they lose it these computers are rare to find in working order and bloody expensive

[scottar]

Yeah I'm only speculating at the moment if oil pumps were cheaper i would replace the whole thing with a brand new one or is there some type of place that can test these things? I'm a bit iffy about reusing the oil pump and i most defiantly want all 4 injectors checked and cleaned before i start her up

actually your on to something i remember that top bearing being coated in oil but the lower bearings were drenched in oil to the point they stuck to the crank, now thinking about it that cylinder that let go rod bearings were drier than the others but i dismissed it because the cylinder was open for 6 months and may have dried out a little

can the EMM be tested off the engine harness? if so i will see if the boat code guy will come out and read it for me, i really don't want to drop the EMM off to a shop and they lose it these computers are rare to find in working order and bloody expensive

Best option would be to give Huey a call and ask him. Can't imagine he would lose one - too good a rep for that sort of thing. Provided you have a harness to power the EMM, it should be able to be read. I don't think you could do a full test as it needs the stator to be putting in voltage to check charging and the injectors hooked up to make sure it is triggering them but it would be a start. The oil pump itself is also monitored by the EMM. If it doesn't see an oil pulse on the sensor it will go straight into protection mode - had mine do this due to an air bubble just recently but with the computer in the boat just did an oil system prime and all was good. If there was an oil pulse issue it will be in the computer report - assuming it is serviceable.

[Noelm]

Overheat typically causes piston/bore damage before bearings, and to overheat enough to cause that damage will probably have paint cooked on the head and block too.

[gazza2006au]

Scottar i might buy the software and check it out my self and thanks for the info on the computer self priming i wasnt actually dure how that was done as i am no where near that stage yet

Noel check out this bearing from one of the good cylinders it started changing colour meaning either lack of oil or over heating temp

The bearing on the right is from one of the good cylinders this bearing is also the bearing showing colour

The bearing on the right is the bearing from the snapped conrod

[scottar]

One other option I haven't considered until now Gazza - the wrong oil. If it was set to run BRP's fully synthetic XD100 and someone filled the tank with a TCW3 product, it would have been under oiling even if the oil injection system was perfect.

[gazza2006au]

Scottar i was given half a tank of oil do u know the colour of the xd100 oil? I will go check the oil out in the car the oil tank is still in the car boot im not checking the car engine oil lol

[gazza2006au]

I googled it xd100 is honey colour and smells like cats piss, xd50 is suppose to be blue green but unsure of smell

My oil is strait up blue and reeks like cats piss

All my oil lines are the same dark blue

[scottar]

LOL. To be honest Gazza, I'm not too sure what "cat's piss" smells like but that oil is definitely not XD100. It's either XD50 (I've never used it - mine is only fed XD100), a TCW3 rated oil or something else. If the EMM is set to XD100, that could potentially be the problem. When the EMM gets read you will know for sure what it is set to.

[scottar]

117766

For reference Gazza

[gazza2006au]

Yeah it could be the TC3W, Anyone know where to download the E-Tec software? i can make up a cable tomorrow but need the program

Scottar it smells like really strong piss lol

[shakey55]

I googled it xd100 is honey colour and smells like cats piss, xd50 is suppose to be blue green but unsure of smell

My oil is strait up blue and reeks like cats piss

All my oil lines are the same dark blue

Check this out.

117767


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[gazza2006au]

Yeah it could be XD50 in my container, going to buy one of those ebay diagnostic deals but one that they email me the download so ican hopefully run it today or tomorrow

[stevej]

yammalube is also blue

[gazza2006au]

Working on that one bolt this afternoon got the old trusty Repco tig welder out i have heated the bolt once now letting it cool to crack the corrosion

Went to RS Online and picked up a female triangle plug to suit the E-Tec's diagnostics plug i also bought the program from Ebay from somewhere Slovakia somewhere like that cost AUD$80

once i get this bolt undone i will take the block into a shop i'll take along with it the piston, rods and bearings to see what a experienced expert has to say

i also called the shop i bought the engine from he said he didn't have the print outs of the details but did say i should be able to run the diagnostics with everything off the engine

[gazza2006au]

Got that seized bolt undone i soaked it for a few minutes at 30amps just enough to heat the bolt without melting it i than stopped but decided to give it some more heat so lit it back up and sat on it for another 4mins let it cool and she came undone not without resisting whole bolts thread was caked with calcium without the tig welder i had not a chance of getting it undone

i used the engine crane to lift the powerhead off because at this point i didn't know how heavy it was i sat it back down than some heave ho carried it into the shed the powerhead would weight around 45-50kg

i got it on the bench and undone the crankcase bolts, removed the crank and inspected it crank looks all ok no damage only one journal is slightly burnt, notice all the oil that came out of the block? everything was lubed well and truely

the main bearings 2 split type were in excellent condition the 3rd is a press fit that too is in excellent condition, basically i have one rooted block, half a piston and the coloured crank plus the conrod that started it all

pictures turned to crap the camera fogged while in my pocket had to have felt 34c in the shed

[gazza2006au]

There was this half external pin in the crankcase i have NFC why it was there i have never seen it before on any engines i have rebuilt i had the feeling it may have been put in place by the last rebuilder as in a way of tamper proofing the engine it was an absolute pain in the ass to remove the crankcase due to this one pin i had to heat the crankcase 3 times with the propane torch and wiggle it loose

[Noelm]

Is that roller marks on the crank? what do you mean by an external pin on the crankcase?

[Fed]

Your manual would have told you to use a taper pin removal tool & give you the dimensions to make one.
Taper pins are used to accurately locate the crankcase to the block.
A manual will save you a lot of headaches Gazza.

[gazza2006au]

Nah there are no marks Noel even the main bearings were ok for the cylinder that let go i donno how it never damaged the crank, iwill get better pics when i take it to the shop this afternoon, ahh i see what u mean now Noel nah those bearings split in half with a si clip to hold them together the actual main crank journal is inside of it

Fed this isnt a crankcase locating pin i went thru the manual last night and there were no mention of it i think it was added by someone who done the last rebuild for warranty and temper proofing, this pin is located in the top left of the casing right out on the side no where near a locating pin would normally be located

[gazza2006au]

Here is the pin location Fed

[gazza2006au]

Old mate just quoted $150-$200 to weld, machine and re-sleeve the E-Tec block how bloody cheap is that, he said he couldn't do anything with the crankshaft because it has needle bearings or roller bearings he mentioned because the engine smashed to bits there are tiny bits of metal on the crankshaft journals and its sketchy to machine the crankshaft because of those bearings are one size fitment only hesaid he could polish it but that's about all he can do

the rod journals look ok but looking at the crank journals they took a bit of a knock around

if i want to do a brand new job its cough up USD $1400 or a new crankshaft, Aud $3000 or run with what i have

[Noelm]

Back in the "old days" oversized roller sets were available for crankshaft machining, might be worth seeing a bearing place just for kicks! polishing might be OK, seeing as it's not badly scored, don't know how he can weld and fit a sleeve for that price, can you readily locate a sleeve?

[myusernam]

just for info NQ outboard wreckers in Townsville have a large number of motors
also angus smith marine have some old motors and a ficht v4 that I know of.

[gazza2006au]

Noel i might try this motorcycle shop as they will work around needle bearings a lot in the industry, the shop i went to today is a car engineering company so he would mostly work with shell bearings rather than needle and ball bearings

he did mention the $150-$200 was for welding,machining and sleeving but he said it depends on the sleeve i think he meant if he needs to machine to sleeves outside diameter to fit the block than it will cost more, if its a strait press out repair than press in those are the prices

the sleeve has to come out of the USA from LA Sleeves or Advanced Sleeves, one of those two mentioned i read on there site they can make any sleeve to order for almost every engine

my cousin is urging me to repair and sell the E-Tec and buy a 4 stroke, i have wanted a E-Tec ever since they came out so sitting on the fence about it would love to keep it just they are known to blow up a lot

[gazza2006au]

Myusernam i called FNQ Outboard wreckers they said the only 115-130hp etec they had ran lean and was no good

[Noelm]

Can you check the part numbers to make sure the V4 FICHT and your e-tec do share the same block? if that's the case, then a second hand block would be cheaper, quicker, probably better and certainly easier. Is the sleeve definitely buggered, it can't be bored out? you need to be sure the bottom end is good, they run on very little oil, and need to be spot on, not exactly sure on e-tecs, but, between the crankcase "chambers" there is very close tolerance sealing, called labyrinth seals, and it needs to be very clean and assembled correctly.

[Noelm]

Myusernam i called FNQ Outboard wreckers they said the only 115-130hp etec they had ran lean and was no good
The block might be OK though? give Arizona Outboard wreckers a call, they have lots of stuff.

[gazza2006au]

Yeah that is why old mate today said he couldn't do any work to the crankshaft because of the tight tolerances he did mention he could take a tiny layer off but i am not even going to gamble on that with a 9k engine, if the crank is no good the only option is to go undersized bearings or scrap it and get a new crank from the USA, i really don't want to part out the engine its too good not to rebuild

just hope that EMM is ok

i called Arazonia Outboard Wreckers they said the had a rebuilt powerhead for $2800

[gazza2006au]

That guy in WA on Gumtree with the parting out of 115hp E-Tec was going to extra lengths for me to buy his powerhead saying he is genuine he will add me to his facebook friends list etc.. pay with paypal,, but he mentioned he worked up north for BHP now which shady charictor doesn't work for "BHP" LOL.... and he timed it so he would be home on a wednesday..... gets the money thrusday.... closes account friday...... seeya sucker!!!! hell no

Western Australia Gumtree sales ring more bells than the churchies around here...

[stevej]

iv bought tonnes of stuff from wa its cheap for the reasons ive said before, doesn't mean this isn't a scam

get someone to go personally pick it up

[gazza2006au]

The fact that someone buys a whole complete running engine just for the sake of hearing people say the "fuel injectors go and the emm go on these models" is a warning sign, no one goes and spends $5000 on a engine minimum when injectors are $350 and a emm recondition is $1000!! it just did not make sense and still deosn't

his powerhead is worth $2000 easy, a wreckers wants $2800, he is selling it for $750!!!

I'm not specially stating all the scammers are in Perth WA they are all over Australia afew that still stand out to me are Coff's Coast or sales in Coffs Harbour, Cairns, and Townsville

[catshark]

scammer alert .......the old gumtree line, starts with " i work away at sea or up north" had one just the other day , wanting pay pal details. grubs

[gazza2006au]

Cat they flood Gumtree there adds are all over the place

[catshark]

your certainly going to town on this project, dismantling everything is making me dizzy , but interesting to read the terms and lingo you guys are throwing around and depth of detail. regarding the ETEC, im learning that they are torque monsters having watched a 150 etec pull back a 200 yammie, in a tug of war challenge ending in the yammie being dragged backwards and pulled completely underwater, damn thats impressive, makes me want to go out and buy one, but then would i be joining the darkside.

[gazza2006au]

Yamaha are renowned to be the best out there but i personally think all the late models are level they are all the latest technology, i reckon the E-Tec's only have people talking crap about them is because of something they heard 5th 6th 7th hand of Joes twin E-Tec's blowing up 2mins a part 300nm out to sea lol the thing about the E-Tec is its a 2 stroke a lot of people see 2 stroke as old technology and outdated they most likely grew up as kids 30-40-50 years ago and remember going out on pop's cruiser with a huge stinky 200hp that made them sick

These days the high tech 2 strokes really are that they have come a long way and are technical pieces of machinery the thing is they came in leeps and bounds it wasnt a gradually thing for them coming to the market, i don't know much about the Opti-max but i have followed the Evinrudes from the beginning because i had always owned old Evinrude outboards, they had the old school 2 stroke carbies than they went to DI FICHT than quickly moved onto the E-Tec's so fast Australia was way behind in repairing such technology the American's were repairing EMM (E-Tec Computers) for about a decade before they started to service the world and to today we still don't thati know of have a a repair company in Aus its toss it out and buy a new one...

its been a long time since i went into the E-Tec diagnostics program but the amount of settings and controls u had over the outboard was impressive back in the old carby days it was tweek this here and there but today its all computerized specialized equipment a lot of the how to's have leaked out and your average person can now change the settings of the outboard

mechanically there isn't much to a Evinrude E-Tec its a basic block like the old school 2 strokes where it gets technical is there is a crap load of wiring added to control all the injection system and computer i know i am going to struggle with the wire harness going back on so i tried to leave as much stuff connected and in big pieces so its less work and less memory needed however the shop i bought it from had already removed the coil plugs without labeling so i don't know which goes where

there is a exhaust valve in the leg also that suppose to seize up and u have to buy a whole leg i am hopping i can free it up if mine is stuck, it's the valve that opens at 4000rpm for a 10hp boost that kicks in kind of like a power valve on motorcycle engines or like a Japanese car when u get the rpm up to 3500-4000rpm and u feel the real power kicking in kind of the same thing

[stevej]

you will never have a issue selling a boat with a yamaha four stroke on the back, i guarantee if you had 5 boats all with same hp but different brands the Yamaha would sell first

all the fancy stuff on etecs is too minimise the amount of oil needed to keep it alive so it passes the new emissions standards
fact i have seen 4 etecs with gear cases absolutely destroyed on bass boats never seen another brand with just a empty gear case attached to the leg

[Smithy]

Catshark, in that test, how were they propped? How deep did they have the motors? So much you could do in that test to skew the results in your favour, that and the planing on one motor test I saw in another one.

[Noelm]

That old advertising video has been around for ages, they just update it now and then, of course an advertising video is going to show the result to suit the brand paying, anyone could make one the same and reverse the result, it's advertising, that's how it works.

[gazza2006au]

I went over to see the crank specialist he said he doesnt do blocks and he could only give advice on the crank he said the crank doesnt look to bad it may only need a polish but i need to measure the journals i will do that today, he looked at the conrod and said it over heated

He said if my crank is worn past its limit it will need to be welded than machined back to size

[Noelm]

Not common for roller bearing cranks to be bad unless it's obviously been cooked, first signs are colour, and roller imprints in the surface, the one at Arizona is starting to look attractive.

[gazza2006au]

Noel that is what i'm seeing on the broken conrod the lines from the needle bearings in the top end, the bottom end looked ok but one of the other cylinders bottom end bearings where showing colour

I'm not to sure about the AO one Noel my cousin seems to think its strait off a engine they have gotten than cleaned it up and are saying its rebuilt, i have been to that wreckers in person before a couple of times but never past the counter so don't know if they do work on engines or just wreck them

[catshark]

Fair call ... advertising is a form of fake news, to spin something in their favour.....granted and do agree that yammies are the most popular.

post #136 good info and insight.

[gazza2006au]

Just measured the crankshaft journals as follows

Specs:
Rod Journals: 34.94-34.96mm
Main Journals:55.55-55.56mm

My Readings as Follows
(using vainer calipers not a micrometer)

going from flywheel down
1st rod journal 34.95mm
2nd rod journal 34.94mm
3rd rod journal 34.96mm
4th rod journal 34.95mm

Main Journal
Middle: 55.54mm (Needs to be welded and machined)
Top: 55.53mm (Needs to be welded and machined)

i will buy a micrometer and do further testing before taking the crank into a shop i will call around tomorrow for prices on welding the crank

[Fed]

Look to be the same crank dimensions as the earlier V4s.
1988 Model here.
Are you sure the crank needs welding?
117787

[gazza2006au]

It's a bit different Fed mine has the top and middle crank journal the same size and bottom journal is smaller, rods are the same tho

i don't know if to go see another shop about the crank and take my spec's with me or just go buy a micrometer for $50 and decide that my self

[gazza2006au]

Picked up the micrometer late this afternoon chucked it on the rod journals because i bought a too small of a gauge only bought the 25-50mm model but i would have needed the 50-75mm model too so i will head back when i get a chance

i checked the rod journals on 2 positions each and got

34.45x35.44
34.46x34.46
34.45x34.44
34.45x34.45

my tool reads 360 degrees in 0-45,0-45 so not 100% sure how to read it yet i will read the instructions

just read the instructions i was .50mm out

those numbers read

34.95x35.94
34.96x34.96
34.95x34.94
34.95x34.95

all in millimeters

[Noelm]

Seems like they are within spec.

[gazza2006au]

Yeah that's the good new Noel now i just need the bigger micrometer to check the main journals, these micrometers i have wanted for a while but they are not cheap between $50-$100 each piece, previously i have dropped cranks into the shop to get old mate to measure them and machine but i decided i needed them now, still need to get a set of bore gauges but when i get that cylinder re-sleeved i'll take the specs in with me

[gazza2006au]

Got a reply by Paul English Engineering in VIC said they no longer weld cranks, and yesterday while trying to check the water pump impeller i realized i bought a engine with a left hand propeller so its likely my E-Tec came from a twin engine boat and is likely to have a ton of hours, my diagnostic cable should be here any day to check hours

couldn't check the water pump the leg weighed an absolute ton to lift by my self

[Noelm]

Being left handed doesn't mean it will have high hours (it could have of course) might need to make sure it is a counter rotation, just in case they just put another prop on to sell it (as you mentioned way back) no big deal being a counter, just props will be harder to get.

[gazza2006au]

Looks like i am just getting lucky i just bought a 50-75mm micrometer from Hare and Forbes so it is a trustworthy tool same as the other one i bought, my main journals measure within spec at
55.55x55.55 (Top)
55.55x55.56 (Middle)
bottom is a ball bearing that has a inner race so the whole bearing can be replaced i will measure it but its likely in spec

Noel i'm hoping it doesn't have a ton of hours but its likely for a engine that was probably used on a cat and being a 130hp x2 thats a big cat that would see some hours likely with the engines running continuous

[Noelm]

If everything measures OK, then the hours mean nothing, not too sure how much rebuild parts will be, make sure the crankcase halves are spotless and the recommended "goo" is used when assembling, any air leaks will give you grief, the top and bottom seals/bearings are also critical.

[gazza2006au]

WSM make a rebuild kit all pistons,seals,gaskets,bearings a complete kit for $1250

Block welding and re-sleeving is $200

Sleeve is about $250 converted and shipped

1 new rod is around $300-400 i may look for a second hand rod on ebay or local wreckers

Crankshaft polishing should only be $50

[Noelm]

I personally would go genuine with the parts, especially the bearings, but I would still keep an eye out for a second hand block! Another thing to be cautious of, make sure the sealing "rings" on the crank are good.

[gazza2006au]

Yeah i was advised to go OEM on the bearings too and i read about someone else being sold the same thing about the piston's, the price adds up very quickly when your talking OEM parts from Australia $200 for one bearing etc..

[stevej]

mate just bought a 10 year old 90 yamaha 2 stroke for $3600 with 300 hours
looks cheap compared to what your going through

[gazza2006au]

mate just bought a 10 year old 90 yamaha 2 stroke for $3600 with 300 hours
looks cheap compared to what your going through
I should have a brand new E-Tec 130 that is 2 years newer, 40hp more, for $900 extra, Not to mention its a E-Tec :)

[gazza2006au]

Just comparing the prices from a local supplier of Evinrude OEM parts

AUD $380 for two main bearings locally
USD$220 for the same two bearings out of USA

AUD $215 each piston locally
USD $115 each piston out of USA

AUD $142 each big end bearings locally
USD $61 each out of USA

i may need to consider where i am sourcing my parts from would love to support Huey as he is a local Evinrude dealer but i also need to consider the over all cost to repair

what would u guys do?

[blacklab]

Gazza, I'm following this thread with interest, purely for the fact that your giving this a decent crack. I haven't really worked on outboards for 40 odd years, these types weren't in existence, the electronics is what would give me the hebe jebees.
Now, the question, support the local supplier, or save a bit of coin and "venture"
I'll convey my experience, currently rebuilding a 75 triumph bonneville engine ( it's a habit).
Always try to support local suppliers, having to import most of the parts from England in container loads and always get good advice when needed on different projects.
UNTIL.
I got a price for main engine and gearbox bearings, local---$480 England $ 310 delivered in 5 days. Hmmm
I'll do a full rebuild cost up comparison on both, my findings, around $1000 on parts for the rebuild on the engine and gearbox.
Now, most of these parts are sourced from the same supplier.
Continuing the same exercise with associated frame parts, gave me a grand saving of near $ 1400 on the latest restore project.
Now I will point out, I obviously use local engineers for dynamic crank shaft balancing, head work etc etc.
It's a hard call what you do, these bikes aren't for sale, there all keepers. I give the Aussie suppliers an opportunity to at least come down in price and make the difference less, but to no avail. most of the time, it arrives from where ever quicker than Aussie suppliers can get it to me.
So support the local industry is always prefered, but, I just cant justify the difference.
Hope this doesn't get a bad reaction from folks, Profit isn't a dirty word, but coming out of the same manufacturers and the pricing difference, is pure gauging..........
It will depend on how much coin you have to throw at it and the relationship you need afterwards with local suppliers..........

Col

[gazza2006au]

USD$ USA Shop


2 main bearings $215.38
4 little end bearing $86.64
4 big end bearing $244.56
1 conrod $190.34
4 piston kits $438.24
1 bottom crankshaft bearing $45.44
1 bottom crankshaft bearing sleeve $13.09
powerhead gasket kit $192.15


USD Total $1425.84 AUD conversion AUD$1964.78 plus shipping


AUD$ Local Shop


2 main bearings $379.60
4 little end bearing $187.56
4 big end bearing $570
1 conrod $400.39
4 piston kits $862.36
1 bottom crankshaft bearing $97.22
1 bottom crankshaft bearing sleeve $18.56
powerhead gasket kit $346.48


total AUD $2862.17

or i can just buy everything listed above minus the conrod locally for AUD$1250

[tunaticer]

What are the import duties and GST and freight and insurance components worth?

I just did the sums on local / direct import for a Optimax 200 sport jet.
Local supply AU$24,000.
Buy in the USA and import AU$23,550.....big jump up on the purchase price of US$16,550.

All items now attract 10% GST, most items attract import duties.....you can get import duties dropped on some things but you need the agreement signed off prior to making the purchase, that takes about 4 weeks to get done.

[scottar]

All comes down to whether you think you will need Huey at some stage. If he cracks it and refuses to help after you spend your money OS (basically what I used to do) and then you have a problem with the electronics and blow up all the work you just did, the cheaper prices won't have been such a good deal.

Having been in the marine game for a good period of time I can see the argument from both ends. There is a real chance that Huey can't even purchase parts through official channels at the same price you are sourcing them from overseas. I know that was regularly the case with electronics.

[gazza2006au]

Yeah Scottar it will be going to a dealer hopping to take it to Huey because i seen all his knowledge about the E-Tec's on a fishing forum i use to frequent so i know he knows the E-Tec's really well but it all depends to i have a local guy that is a mobile marine mechanic who i am using to boat code the boat he is also a E-Tec tech but he will cost a few more bucks tho as he is mobile but i can get it done at my house where as Huey is around 45mins away 1.5 hours in traffic than i still need to build my trailer and get that registered to haul it over to Cowan

I don't know when i will be doing the E-Tec weather it be one big repair job at once or in bits at a time, I'm waiting for some cash to come in so i can just buy everything and get it all done, or i am looking to sell my other boat too so i need to work on that as well hopefully if i sell my smaller boat it will make me eager to work on the bigger boat and put more time into it

[Noelm]

I don't want to sound like I am having a go at you, because it's the furthest thing in my mind, but, be careful you don't try to do too many things at once, you can end up with different "projects" half done all over the place! as I said, I am not knocking you at all, and I admire your efforts, but, I have just seen it many times. It's also difficult for me, because of my nature, I am a do one thing at a time and finish it type, pretty rare I know, but it's just how I am, just like when I renovated my house, I didn't start multiple jobs, just one at a time, do it properly, finish it, and move on.

[gazza2006au]

Yeah i hear u Noel if i had the cash tomorrow i would be off on Monday dropping off the E-Tec parts and placing a order for all the bits and pieces, i snagged that E-Tec while i have the opportunity and cash and i tore in to it a little early just because it was playing on my mind if it were repairable or if i was going to have to part it out and save for another engine, i have a bit of coin coming in but i don't know exactly when but hopefully within a month or two max

the boat is the biggest project and that's why i allowed 5 years to do it because i am learning as i am plotting along, the engine is a piece of piss to rebuild it just comes down to what i have in my pocket for that day financially

i have the boat on a trailer so that will likely be the last project is building the new trailer

the other boat i have the smaller runabout is probably a 1-2 day job tops i could probably get that done in 6 hours if nothing is seized or snaps, i picked up the gasket kit yesterday for that job

those are my only projects i would like to fire up the tig machine and weld a tank but that may need to wait untill i get my floor down in the boat just to get final measurements

I'm not stressing about the E-tec, little stressed about the stringers and bulkheads in big boat but i was stressed about doing the transom and i knocked that over easily enough, the alloy trailer should be a piece of cake to build and the little 50hp mariner doesn't really worry me i am just hopping the ebay seller sold me a good powerhead as i seen they are selling a conrod that fits my E-Tec and its a shady deal shagged to the s... house and they are trying to sell it

[gazza2006au]

Hooked her up to the laptop and she has 930 hours i think 55% at 800rpm it was set to XD100 oil and i have blue oil in the container do u think this was the problem it blew?

[gazza2006au]

Whats your thoughts guys?

[scottar]

Can't say for sure the oil was the cause but I do know that if it is set to XD100 then that is the only oil that should be run. It has definitely been run hot at some stage - there should be a temperature profile available that will show a breakdown of how long at what temps. It's reading a max temp of about 100 degrees C - the alarms start chirping at about 90 from memory. The EMM doesn't look like it too hot though which is good.

[catshark]

code 71 and 72 BOOM

[catshark]

seems to have done a lot more hours at 5-5500 than say at cruise speed of about 4500, is this normal to flog out a etec.

[catshark]

maybe old mate put wrong oil in , had a brain fade, happened to me once blew my hydralic seals by putting in red instead of clear.

[gazza2006au]

Can't say for sure the oil was the cause but I do know that if it is set to XD100 then that is the only oil that should be run. It has definitely been run hot at some stage - there should be a temperature profile available that will show a breakdown of how long at what temps. It's reading a max temp of about 100 degrees C - the alarms start chirping at about 90 from memory. The EMM doesn't look like it too hot though which is good. Yeah i have read if its set to XD100 oil that's the only oil it can use, idon't exactly know what happens if XD50 is used in a case like this



code 71 and 72 BOOM

Nah mate those codes are only reading because i have the EMM and wire harness off the engine and most things are unplugged


seems to have done a lot more hours at 5-5500 than say at cruise speed of about 4500, is this normal to flog out a etec.
Yeah i thought this engine may have been a twin 130hp on a big 28 footer cat or something that is why it reads high hours at 5000-5500 big boat easy to flog it home on a hot summers day after trolling at idle for marlin for 10 hours, I'll break down the seconds into minutes now

[gazza2006au]

RPM, Minutes, Hours

800, 28256, 470h
1200, 6138, 102h
1600, 5786, 96h
2000, 2036, 33h
2500, 2649, 44h
3000, 1199, 20h
3500, 652, 11h
4500, 716, 12h
5000, 2154, 36h
5500, 2802, 46h
5800, 787, 13h
6000, .45,
6200, .6,
7000, .015,

on the hours i dropped the decimal off and rounded off to the closes hour, i only just realised looking at my screen shots i could look at EMM temp etc.. i will connect it tomorrow and check those settings

[scottar]

Also check the historical faults.

[gazza2006au]

Thanks Scottar i just checked and it looks like the engine spat out a code right before it blew up i am so glad i have finally found the problem

at 924 hours (it has 927 hours on clock) it spat code 59 this is 3 minutes before it blew up, the code is the starboard cylinder failed to reach operating temperature so basically the engine had a cold seizure, the piston bit the wall causing the rod to snap and shit to go everywhere

bloody hell a $15,000 engine and this owner never changed the thermostats that's just crazy

[scottar]

I wouldn't read too much into that Gazza. Mine ran cold due to a thermo not closing properly for a long while. When they were replaced it started overheating at high idle until I fitted thermo's that were out of the Ficht engines that opened 10 degrees cooler. From what I understand, low temp is mainly a concern at low RPM. At high RPM's the thermo's do very little as the PRV is opened and is supplying most of the cooling.

[gazza2006au]

Yeah maybe Scottar but when u have a cold engine and your flogging a hot piston in a cold sleeve i think this might just be the problem

[gazza2006au]

Bloody hell ay not to sure now, temps are fine, the engine had oil because the top and bottom bearings were fine, no oil pressure faults, no fuel injector faults, i'll have another look at the sleeve tomorrow to see if there is any scoring

Whats the chance of sleeve fracturing from old age?

The engine was running at 5200rpm for 15mins i think before it let go i will post those pics tomorrow

[gazza2006au]

Engine temps show it let go at 58c i will need to look into running temps

[scottar]

Possibly. Not sure what is normal for that model but mine never ran that cool at high RPM with the leaky thermostat - was always around mid to high 70's c and only ran cooler at medium to high idle.

[gazza2006au]

Yeah i am maybe thinking a hot piston in a cool bore going 5200rpm because the bores are tapered its smaller at the bottom of the cylinder and that is right where it pinched the side than snapped the rod from the friction and smashed to bits

looking at those screen shots it never over heated so it has to be a cold seizure i am hopping so, plus it let go 3 minutes after a cold engine put out a code so maybe the alarm was sounding? but going flat chat over 2-3 minutes u probably wouldn't have the reaction time to slow down before it let go

[gazza2006au]

Rebuild should start in the next couple of weeks, huey pm me a price that is more than double the WSM kit from jetsport in QLD so i may go this aftermarket kit for $1250 thru huey was $2700

[gazza2006au]

Few things playing on my mind about this etec two big ones are the crank and block repairer said that there will be metal fragments on the crank journals that cannt ve removed unless machined also after i rebuild this engine i will have put all my cash into it, etecs of all horse power ranges are known to have faulty fuel injectors that take out the piston and i am worried if i sink 2-2.5k into the rebuild and i have this problem i will be back to square one

In 4-5 weeks i will have 3-4k for another engine and if i were to part out this etec that extra cash could go towards a Optimax 135-175hp or a Honda 130hp

I would be shattered if i repaired the etec for it to blow up again due to something so tiny as a bad injector

Whats your thoughts?

I am not one bit doubting my rebuild skills just second guessing weather not replacing the crank and the known injector problem and keeping those parts in use is just leaving me thinking

[terryc]

Hi Gazza i am enjoying following all your threads, and i've found this one mind boggling. Its made me realise how complicated the newer 2 stroke technology has become and it seems to me that too many things could go wrong. I would prefer to stay with four stroke where at least there is oil in a sump. Admittedly anything can fail, however it appears with the advanced 2 stroke technology things are more delicate. I wouldn't be chasing 'good money after bad', no use riding the horse into the ground better to find another. Just my thoughts and i am no expert by any means in this are. Good luck will keep following with interest.

[Andy56]

Few things playing on my mind about this etec two big ones are the crank and block repairer said that there will be metal fragments on the crank journals that cannt ve removed unless machined also after i rebuild this engine i will have put all my cash into it, etecs of all horse power ranges are known to have faulty fuel injectors that take out the piston and i am worried if i sink 2-2.5k into the rebuild and i have this problem i will be back to square one

In 4-5 weeks i will have 3-4k for another engine and if i were to part out this etec that extra cash could go towards a Optimax 135-175hp or a Honda 130hp

I would be shattered if i repaired the etec for it to blow up again due to something so tiny as a bad injector

Whats your thoughts?

I am not one bit doubting my rebuild skills just second guessing weather not replacing the crank and the known injector problem and keeping those parts in use is just leaving me thinking

Gazza, this has been epic, lol. I feel for you BUT. This the classic case of male bravado, optimism and pigheadedness. Most of us males are guilty of these things when we get a head of steam. Just because we can doesnt mean we should. its a hard lesson i learned in business. You have to unlearn all the things you thought made you a man, lol. Sometimes we just jump in when discretion is the better part of valour. Your comments show that you are having second thoughts. Mate , go with your gut instinct, walk. You will never be 100% sure and i can read its eating at you. Your doubts will never go away.

[Noelm]

I guess with any rebuild, it's a lottery, it might come out like new, it might last a year, or, it might die shortly after the maiden voyage starts, add to that, the complicated nature of an e-tec, let alone one that had a problem, and the odds are slowly going in favour of a complete running engine being a better option, there is plenty of good used engines around if you have the time to look, no idea what your motor would be worth as parts though.

[Noelm]

Just as an after thought, if I was going second hand 2 stroke, I would go old school and cop the fuel use and smoke, not an e-tec or an Opti, or even a Yamaha HPDI, look for a good running standard old EFI 4 stroke. (In my opinion)

[stevej]

that comment has been made a few times and ignored noelm

$3500 gets you a $70hp yamaha running 4500 a 90 etc
if the die scrap and get another

perfect example https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/mount-richon/boat-accessories-parts/yamaha-90-hp-2-stroke-outboard-20-shaft/1197031541
id take that over a rebuilt etec or rebuilt anything that died and was rebuilt without knowing what killed it in the first place.

the 2000 v4 90hp johnson i had was a brilliant engine and fuel use wasnt high 50-60l to go from botany to the fads and back and troll for a few hours, didnt even notice the oil tank dropping just topped it up every 6 trips or so

[gazza2006au]

I'm worried about the metal fragments that are in bedded into the crank journals after its seizure, i can buy a new crank from the USA for six hundred they are a old stock marked down but i probably wont have the cash before they are sold

Noel i would need something like 140hp+ old school 2 stroke would be a real guzzler, if i could sell some etec parts i could possibly looking for a five k engine four strokes are just a little beyond this amount at about six k

no idea why my keyboard isnt working with numbers

[Noelm]

I was told there was a 100HP Yamaha 4 stroke with 330 hours for sale on Facebook for $4,500 the other day, didn't see the add myself though.

[gazza2006au]

From what i have seen Noel there has been 3 boats like mine, 1 is on sale now on FB it hasa vintage 140hp Suzuki 2 stroke, another one i seen a few months back on Gumtree had a 200hp 2 stroke and there was 1 more on FB that guy regularly posts pictures of that one has a 175hp

i am thinking i need minimum 130hp 140hp, one person commented on the ETec forum saying i would need every bit of the 130hp Etec to move my boat

[gazza2006au]

I checked out the crank journals with a loupe i think is is 60x this must be what the machine shop guy means by metal fragments on the journals

[Noelm]

Hmm, interesting, I wonder what a brand new one looks like, and I wonder if it can be polished? I was doing a bit of searching for something else and came across a guy in the US that says the sleeves are actually pulled out from the top, no idea how unless there is some sort of tool to do it.

[Andy56]

If you think a 130 etec is a big fish I will disagree with you. The big step over a 90hp comes when you go 150 and over. When i did comparisons a few years back, I didnt think there was much difference between an etec 115, 130 or suzi 140 4S. on a 543rf signature. So if this rebuild is a big heavy lump, 130 may be just so so.

[gazza2006au]

Noel i think they may machine out the old sleeve thru the top than press in the new sleeve, those big scratches are from me being heavy handed with the micrometer i was using the thimble but it was doing it up to tight

Andy i would love a 150hp etec but they are 6 cylinders more transom weight

[stevet]

Hi

re the 115 v 150 weights from Evinrude specs

G1 115 -Weight:

170 – 177 kgs depending on model

G1 135ho which is same as a G1 150hp I -Weight:
190 – 196 kgs depending on model

regards
stevet

[gazza2006au]

A bit of extra weight Steve i still don't know how she will sit in the water as i have never had nor seen it in the water never actually seen one of these models in the water at all

[gazza2006au]

Funds are in the bank, What would u guys do? i called the shop they still have the powerhead i tried to negotiate $2500 from $2800 it comes with 3 months warranty not that it will be of any use for me, this only leaves $1000 for my trailer build

would u try rebuild my powerhead for $2000 or would u just buy the complete powerhead for $2500 knowing it could be second hand rather than rebuilt, i am being told it was rebuilt for a customer than walked away from the deal and it has ever since sat on the shelf

[Noelm]

I personally would keep shopping for a complete running used motor, but then, if you can somehow guarantee that it was rebuilt properly, and not just pieced together from other motors, it might be OK.

[gazza2006au]

There are a few i considered Noel

Optimax had been rust seized than pulled apart repaired and assembled 50 hours put on it $2250

i just don't have a big budget there for not a lot of buying power

[myusernam]

If u shop around you'll find something at a good price

[catshark]

chuck all your cash into the trailer, and then see what finance option is available and will give you a wider selection of motors, perhaps repayments are low these days, not sure.

[catshark]

is selling your other boat an option , sounds like your uncertain which way to go on the motor selection. might pay to leave that to last, good things come to those who wait.

[gazza2006au]

Yeah i thought about building the trailer with the cash i have than sell my smaller boat at the beginning of next summer to fund the engine for big boat, i honestly cant see my self doing much work on these 38-50c days if i get some lights rigged up i may work at night but i will have bugs glued to the hull

[gazza2006au]

Will likely have some cash coming in in around 3 to 4 weeks i am thinking of buying the Etec rebuild kit just i wont have enough cash to buy the conrod, new cylinder sleeve or have the block welded but it will be a leep i still think the etec is the right road to take considering i already have it

[catshark]

sounds like the go , keep ticking over steady and you be on the home stretch soon enough.. youve got all the gear waa for the ETEC .

[gazza2006au]

Couple of Opti's on Gumtree but they are going for double of what i will have i have tried looking for another engine but nothing is coming up that looks decent for the amount i will have

[gazza2006au]

Have been trying to find another engine but can't find anything even near a decent engine for under $2000, 2k gets ya a vintage 70's 80's 140hp i listed the etec for parts but only got two people wanting parts

can i run different brand pistons in the etec? 3 OEM 1 WSM?

what about a running 3 OEM conrods with one WSM conrod?

what is on my ind about repairing the etec is if i spend all this cash and it blows up again i will be at a huge loss, if i am to repair the etec i will be looking to order the parts this week or next week

[stevej]

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/mornington/boat-accessories-parts/yamaha-130hp-saltwater-series/1202272963

[gazza2006au]

Steve to much i cant afford it, found one or two in Sydney but they are old and beatin up

[gazza2006au]

I drove 7 hours to pick up that 2010 Mercury 90hp 4 stroke it was in a lot worse condition than the guy advertised but is repairable just needs a ton of welding i may bake the block in my bbq and weld it my self but will see

anyone want to buy Etec 115hp 130hp everything for sale...

EDIT: i think i hit gold guys ;D this is the engine i just bought for $800 from gumtree the top conrod has spun around and smashed all the crankcase to bits in a big circle done a lot of damage the seller was trying to hide, this engine sat on gumtree for 4 months at $800 no one bought it,when i picked it up the seller mentioned the same thing i found out that the only crankcases new were $3000USD but low and behold when i got home i found a complete powerhead for $1000 and quiet a few pieces to piece together a powerhead for under $1000

$1800 engine gotta be worth six thousand surely in running condition

[gazza2006au]

Got some cash from the Etec parts to sink into this Mercury, What would u guys do replace my bottom half of my crankcase and weld/sleeve the old block or buy another block for close to $1000? the powerhead is overseas so may get picked up by customs and sent thru the ringer because its been used unsure how customs would actually clean it without totally ....... it

so far from the damage i can see i need a second hand block, second hand crank, new rod new piston kit, gasket kit and shes good to go

old mate i bought it off said it had takin salt water into the cylinder the crank web in the very top cylinder is rusty but i don't know how long the engine has sat at Ulladulla a coastal town i am thinking it may have rusted just from salt water in the air entering the gaping hole in the casing

does anyone know these engines and where it would possibly leak water internally? with the Etec it supposedly comes in with the fuel so i read

[myusernam]

This is gonna be a bit patronising but u say u have 2 grand but not 3 for a perfect condition yammie v4 130 2 stroke. But u will drive 7 hours to look at a piece of crap you souldn't take if it was free costing how much in fuel and tolls?. Then consider driving another 7 hours picking it up. Even if you manage to rebuild and rescue an old four or an etec without any gotchas or hidden issues it's resale will be worth zip? (from what I understand rebuilt motors aren't common and everyone is rightly quite dubious as to the quality?). Where you could conceivably use the 2 banger for a few years and sell it for what u paid for it. There are heaps of good condition running two bangers from trade ins. A bit of hagging would surely see that asking price come down real quick?
Fuel and oil costs really are minimal difference on that size motor and usually shared among crew if you are taking mates out. Plus two strokes do have their advantages. Fair enough if you like doing it but it shouldn't be a financial issue because from what I read financially it makes zero sense. Even if you don't have much left over sometimes it pays to just save for a bit longer. Again sorry if patronising just seems like a lot of risk for little reward

[catshark]

What happen to the etec rebuild man , was it going to be a technical nightmare,? the mercury might be a better rebuild option and you might make some coin on it or keep it on your rig ....but at 165kg and 90 ponies hard out.. your not going to like it man , it gonna be sad. rebuild and make some coin on this and then get a big ass yammy saltwater two stroke and then your gonna be glad...

[Noelm]

I personally wouldn't be welding anything, if you can get a second hand good part, go that way for sure.

[stevej]

as has been said above adding up the expenditure on that etec and this 90 you could have had a running decent 2 stroke Yamaha.


anyone with any sense will not buy a backyard rebuilt outboard and even from a dealer will ask for parts and machine work performed as most claimed rebuilds are just a new set of rings and a hone

[gazza2006au]

My i cant justify $3000 on any 2 stroke outboard. As i see it strolling thru fb and gumtree classifieds every bloke is tossing the old 2 stroke on there because they have upgraded pretty much gove it 5 years there will be no value in 2 strokes

Cat the reliabilty has had me worried about fixing the etec basically the etec was only going to be repairable if the crank journal was ok if i had to buy another crank the repair would have ran up to 3k or possibly more than the etecs are prone to injector failing without warning and that melts the piston and surely damages the crank and rod journals pretty much pissing away a usd $1200 crank
This mercury was 1 of 3 i was looking at buying when i bought the etec

Thanks for the advice Noel im tossing up to get the local block or one from overseas there is a guy overseas also that sells a full reco crank with rods and all new bearings for usd $500 i just have to get the core back over there or its $500 extra but sounds like a great deal

Steve the etec is not a loss i've had it listed for 2 days and made back 1/3rd of what it cost me

I still have the gearbox, tilt trim unit, mid section with working exhaust valve, cylinder heads, fuel pump, oil pump, stator, side plastics, top cowling, EMM, I'm letting it all go cheap

[stevej]

i didnt say its a loss i was saying if you combined what you have spent you would have a engine that hasn't been opened up and suited to the task
tbh with all the faffing around you probably would have had enough to buy a complete four stroke if you just waited and saved while you finished the hull

basically stop buying other peoples busted piles of shit

And regarding the two stroke, they will always be a demand for them as many older hulls just dont behave well with a new engine
also these engines have a low value anyway so who cares if they are valueless in 5 years, who cares if you lose $1k on a $3k purchase its just not a valid reason for dismissing them
the fact they work will give you enough hp and be light enough to work with a older hull is why you buy it


no one is trying to shit on you here everyone wants to see you on the water and enjoying it
somethings you do just dont make sense

[Dirtyfuzz]

My i cant justify $3000 on any 2 stroke outboard. As i see it strolling thru fb and gumtree classifieds every bloke is tossing the old 2 stroke on there because they have upgraded pretty much gove it 5 years there will be no value in 2 strokes

Cat the reliabilty has had me worried about fixing the etec basically the etec was only going to be repairable if the crank journal was ok if i had to buy another crank the repair would have ran up to 3k or possibly more than the etecs are prone to injector failing without warning and that melts the piston and surely damages the crank and rod journals pretty much pissing away a usd $1200 crank
This mercury was 1 of 3 i was looking at buying when i bought the etec

Thanks for the advice Noel im tossing up to get the local block or one from overseas there is a guy overseas also that sells a full reco crank with rods and all new bearings for usd $500 i just have to get the core back over there or its $500 extra but sounds like a great deal

Steve the etec is not a loss i've had it listed for 2 days and made back 1/3rd of what it cost me

I still have the gearbox, tilt trim unit, mid section with working exhaust valve, cylinder heads, fuel pump, oil pump, stator, side plastics, top cowling, EMM, I'm letting it all go cheap

I was gobsmacked at the price of second hand parts for the 115 evinrudes I have, I was going to flog them off for $1500 each before a Repower but now thinking I will break them down and sell for parts and would probably get 5k each


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gazza2006au]

Steve i suck at saving money, so far i have spent $1500 on the Etec and $800 on the Mercury what could $2300 possibly buy? nothing really all i seen where 115hp johnsons built in 1988 for that price mate anything of that vintage has likely been rebuilt, those old 2 strokes are not something i want on my boat having a old 2 stroke on my boat will only devalue it once the 2 stroke economy goes down hill there are already a bunch of 2 stroke nazi's and there will be a heap more once 2 strokes are banned

if u stroll thru the classifieds and actually read the description u will see just how many people are selling off these engines its the big dash for people to try get some coin back on there engines before they are worthless all these guys selling these engines state in there adds they have upgraded to 4 stroke

i dont want to sink $3000 into a engine that is diminishing in value really fast take a look on fb at people asking what there engines are valued at 50 percent are already saying the old 2 strokes are worth nothing you can see gumtree flooded with highly priced 2 stroke engines that are not moving no one is buying them its owners grasping at the last straw to get money back on there purchases

this mercury is a engine i plan on keeping for my self it doesn't need to appeal to anyone else as a rebuilt unit because it is for me only, if i were to sell it for some reason i don't doubt my mechanical skills if i were to go to tafe to to get certified as a marine mechanic i will know must of the knowledge i have been rebuilding engines for 25 years

the etec was a good buy but than the common problems the G1 suffers got the better of me its not a matter if the engines will blow up again its a matter of when if i am trolling 50 meters off the rocks outside i want to know i have that reliability that the engine will keep chugging along

one last bit if i were to go out and buy the etec 2011 model 130hp in running order i would be looking at $9000, if i were to go buy the mercury 90hp 2010 model i would be looking at $7000 where would i be pulling that kind of money out from?

[billfisher]

I'm not sure why you are fretting about resale value either. If you get 5-10 years of good service out of a used two stroke and you haven't paid much for it then why does it matter if you are left with little residual value? The depreciation per year is acually quite small.

Some might recall my thread when I was looking at rebuiding my motor and ended up looking for a replacement. I was quoted 15K for a 90 hp 4 stroke.fitted which is really over capitalising on an old boat and there is a question as to how well it would perform. I ended up getting a used Parsun 90 which had only done 10 hrs and came with a service and 1 year warranty for $5200. I couldn't be happier with the way it performs - quieter than my old Tohatsu, not much weight on the transom at 120 kg, good fuel economy.

[stevej]

sorry think you've either not understood or you already have pre conceived ideas and wont be swayed
work out a way to save or have someone hold it as you are going to be paying more for less by the time this is all finished

that 80hp wont be enough for your boat, I had a 90hp 2 stroke on a small hull and was just enough

2 strokes wont be banned from use in your or my life time. only restricted from sale new
how can $3000 devalue any more anyway and as billfish said 5-10 years for a few grand drop in price
your boat is not going to go up in value no matter what is bolted to the rear

your boat itself will be worth the same no matter the outboard fitted the total sale price will reflect the individual components hull trailer outboard and anyone looking at a 30+ year old boat is going to understand this

[gazza2006au]

I'm not sure why you are fretting about resale value either. If you get 5-10 years of good service out of a used two stroke and you haven't paid much for it then why does it matter if you are left with little residual value? The depreciation per year is acually quite small.

Some might recall my thread when I was looking at rebuiding my motor and ended up looking for a replacement. I was quoted 15K for a 90 hp 4 stroke.fitted which is really over capitalising on an old boat and there is a question as to how well it would perform. I ended up getting a used Parsun 90 which had only done 10 hrs and came with a service and 1 year warranty for $5200. I couldn't be happier with the way it performs - quieter than my old Tohatsu, not much weight on the transom at 120 kg, good fuel economy.

Bill Sadly you would struggle to get $1500 for that engine in today's market thats if it would even sell

[gazza2006au]

Steve how would i be paying more for less? how on earth will a $800 engine that cost to buy in running condition $7000 that means i have $6200 for repairs to get a equal or better engine a powerhead is all i need there was one on ebay australia just yesterday for $1200 but the seller didn't get back to me

[billfisher]

Bill Sadly you would struggle to get $1500 for that engine in today's market thats if it would even sell


I got it in todays market (more or less ie 10 mths ago). They wouldn't budge on price. I might of go a new one for $6,400 but the last shipment sold out in quick time. Maybe in 10 years time it would be worth $1500. In any case why would I care if it was worthless and I got 10 years of trouble free use out of it?

[ericcs]

as the others have said, just save for the right engine and save yourself all the hassle. it sounds like the 90 merc is going to be drawn out process again as you might end up having to fork out more than you thought to get it going, or end up ditching it also depending on whats wrong with it.
you have half an engine, half a boat and half a trailer, with no completion date in sight. at least save yourself the grief with the engine, and get the boat and trailer done!

[gazza2006au]

I think the Mercury 90hp is a keeper, i will resume work on the trailer shortly as i also have half a car waiting on parts to get delivered, i was absolutely firing a long when i done the transom on the boat than i just hit a brick wall i was helping so many other people do there crap i got caught up and everything stopped on my projects and i dont even go fishing anymore and i love fishing this time of year i would be out 2 to 3 times a week i havent been out in over a month

there is a reason for my lack of motivation and i wont air it out over the internet as i'll cop flack for it but i just need to focus on one project at a time

if i can find a powerhead for the Mercury that will knock off one job which should be a easy unbolt and bolt on the new one but it cost some moolah that should tho save the farting around rebuilding one

just wish i had some help someone to help with motivation someone rocking up on a sat sun morning 7am lets get stuck it to kind of thing

[stevej]

Steve how would i be paying more for less? how on earth will a $800 engine that cost to buy in running condition $7000 that means i have $6200 for repairs to get a equal or better engine a powerhead is all i need there was one on ebay australia just yesterday for $1200 but the seller didn't get back to me

I was referring to money spent on the etec driving 7 hours, driving to see crank specialists welders or whatever else you did to investigate its repair paying 800 for this and so on

you spent 800 and its still not a running engine so don't be selective in your replies to counter a valid point
also worrying about reliability when you plan to put a backyard rebuilt engine that's been previously detonated don't make sense either
as per the etec you don't know why the merc failed

[gazza2006au]

I was referring to money spent on the etec driving 7 hours, driving to see crank specialists welders or whatever else you did to investigate its repair paying 800 for this and so on

you spent 800 and its still not a running engine so don't be selective in your replies to counter a valid point
also worrying about reliability when you plan to put a backyard rebuilt engine that's been previously detonated don't make sense either
as per the etec you don't know why the merc failed

Money spent on the Etec was $1500, money spent driving 7 hours was about $55 for a tank of fuel, driving to the engineer was $10 in fuel, buying the Mercury was $800 and its still not running wow i am not a magician mate and i'm not trying to be funny but i have mentioned this i have spent $2365 where can i buy a running engine for this amount that is not a 30 40 year old engine? any modern fuel injected 90hp+ outboard for $2400 will be shagged to the shitter and ready to blow up, now i could keep saving and double that lets say $5000 what does 5k get ya? it gets u bottom of the line modern 2 or 4 stroke that could be on its last leg now that $5000 gets me a blown up engine it allows me to do a full rebuild without skimping on bits here and there and it gives me the confidence i need and the reliability to go where i want

[billfisher]

Money spent on the Etec was $1500, money spent driving 7 hours was about $55 for a tank of fuel, driving to the engineer was $10 in fuel, buying the Mercury was $800 and its still not running wow i am not a magician mate and i'm not trying to be funny but i have mentioned this i have spent $2365 where can i buy a running engine for this amount that is not a 30 40 year old engine? any modern fuel injected 90hp+ outboard for $2400 will be shagged to the shitter and ready to blow up, now i could keep saving and double that lets say $5000 what does 5k get ya? it gets u bottom of the line modern 2 or 4 stroke that could be on its last leg now that $5000 gets me a blown up engine it allows me to do a full rebuild without skimping on bits here and there and it gives me the confidence i need and the reliability to go where i want

I'd trust my Parsun with 10hrs and a warranty and in the 5K ballpark more than a backyard rebuilt high tech motor. Also it is often said that the cost of rebuilding a 4 stroke is not economically viable. Your just assuming that you can rebuild for that amount and with confidence in it's reliability. As some have pointed out rebuilt motors often don't last that long, even when professionally done.

[stevej]

your up to $2365 and don't have either working another 2k to get the 90 running that's $4365 that's what you should be comparing which Is almost what billfisher paid for his engine

in regards to where you will get a reliable low hours modern engine for the money you want to spend ?, well you wont so a 10 year old 2 stroke is the better option and will have a hp to transom weight to suit your older boat.

its only the recent modern 4 strokes that are getting down in weight that 90 wont be enough for your hull but you have ignored that point

[catshark]

well sounds like the 90 is a keeper than and if it needs a powerhead that all is needed to bolt in than sounds like youve got this soughted, will be fine if you are doing trolling around the rocks and things like that . Any thoughts on how the damage occurred in the mercury..

[gazza2006au]

your up to $2365 and don't have either working another 2k to get the 90 running that's $4365 that's what you should be comparing which Is almost what billfisher paid for his engine

in regards to where you will get a reliable low hours modern engine for the money you want to spend ?, well you wont so a 10 year old 2 stroke is the better option and will have a hp to transom weight to suit your older boat.

its only the recent modern 4 strokes that are getting down in weight that 90 wont be enough for your hull but you have ignored that point

Steve i have sold 5 parts off the Etec in 2 3 days i should be able to get my money back on that so that should not be drawn into the equation

that 10 year old to stroke has been rebuilt or it needs rebuilding 2 strokes are short lived and they need new top ends after so many hours i think they call it a major service possibly a overhaul its at the point people sell the engines than the next guy which will be me just runs it into the ground or rebuilds it

the Mercury weighs about 185kg and the Etec 130hp weighed that!

[gazza2006au]

well sounds like the 90 is a keeper than and if it needs a powerhead that all is needed to bolt in than sounds like youve got this soughted, will be fine if you are doing trolling around the rocks and things like that . Any thoughts on how the damage occurred in the mercury..
Cat the boat was rated to 100hp when i was tearing it down i came across the old capacity sticker from back in the day from maritime and it was marked 100hp i have done the US Coast Guard calculations and it came out that my hulls maximum horse power rating is 124hp

i need to send the computer off to the USA for repairs as the conrod dented the metal casing so i may ask if they can reflash the computer to 115hp as my mercury is a 75hp 90hp 115hp block

[blacklab]

Bit of a shame really Gazza, I sold my 2005 125 mercury, 2 stroke, this time last year, was in A1 condition, didnt miss a beat, 4 cylinder model, I'm upgrading to a 4 stroke, I couldn't give it away ! the guy that bought it, has done over 100 hours, absolutely luvs it. sold it for 2k.
I see them go or advertised for up to 3-4k, but they don't sell, there's some good running options out their, with guys looking to upgrade to a fourstroke.
I regularly went out to shelf and in 4 years did over 300 hours, last owner had it new.
plenty of cheap running options out there, in my opinion, cheaper than buying a non runner and having to rebuild.

Col

[billfisher]

Steve i have sold 5 parts off the Etec in 2 3 days i should be able to get my money back on that so that should not be drawn into the equation

that 10 year old to stroke has been rebuilt or it needs rebuilding 2 strokes are short lived and they need new top ends after so many hours i think they call it a major service possibly a overhaul its at the point people sell the engines than the next guy which will be me just runs it into the ground or rebuilds it

the Mercury weighs about 185kg and the Etec 130hp weighed that!

Plenty of 2 strokes last 20 or more years without a re- build under recreational use. By major service I think this means replacing the head gasket at around 10 years.

[stevej]

Billfisher

I have a 15 evinrude from the 70s that still runs sitting in the corner of the shed for sentimental reasons.

Would have thousands of hours on it the amount granddad then dad used it

And Gazza your wrong
Looked after low revving two strokes like outboards don’t wear out, the ancillaries around them go first

90 hp will not be enough for your hull

[ericcs]

2 strokes short lived, really, that's too funny!
what's a top end rebuild, rings and head gaskets, every chance it'll still have it's original hone marks!

[stevej]

I have had four of those Yamaha 30hp 3 cylinder models at various times
One had 2000 hours on it from trolling a lot
Compression was only 5psi off new

Good oil
Flush them well
Replace the annodes regularly
Soapy wash around the power head

[bluefin59]

Mate I love your passion in trying to get things built and fixed cheaper than buying new , I personally admire your determination to prove you can do it and I am sure you can .
Just a point on motors ,I have had heaps to do with rebuilding motors on everything from locomotive engines in HAULPACKS , motor bike engines car engines hell even whipper snippers .
But the most temperamental of all have been boat motors and I have found that they are way reliable UNTIL they suffer catastrophic failure and then when that happens they never seem to recover no matter how much love you give them .
The problem with them is your always waiting for the next problem and trust me the problems seem to keep coming . Lots of luck in your quest to get back on the water with this boat as it’s interesting to watch the whole thing come together, take care and prove us all wrong I admire your determination. Matt

[Dirtyfuzz]

the saying “poor man pays twice” sets off alarm bells with some of the posts, but if it’s just for a hobbie to keep busy then good stuff!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gazza2006au]

This is one of the powerheads im looking at but the seller doesn't reply to emails https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mercury-115HP-4-stroke-Outboard-Power-Head/223333796543 i need it shipped to Sydney and cannot get in contact with the seller

also this engine can be remaped from 90hp to 115hp

[Noelm]

Kind of scares me that a seller from another state can't be contacted before the sale, how will it go after if something is wrong?

[gazza2006au]

That is why i haven't bid on it Noel keep waiting for a reply, the seller has been a member since 2003 but its sketchy always worried about being conned from people far away ie: NT, WA, FNQ seems to be ripper deals everywhere on gumtree but it raises some concern weather its all genuine

there is another powerhead out of Canada for $1400 plus postage but i'm not sure how customs will clean the block when it goes thru inspection as a used marine engine

[stevej]

http://www.iomarine.com.au

Call them pretty sure that’s them
People only get conned by deals that are too good or placing too much faith in others

And re the Canada engine
You arrange to clean it and get a cleaning certificate before it leaves Canada.

I imported a car head in and had it cleaned and certified free of asbestos in the uk
Customs still sent it for testing and that cost $1300 even though none was found

[billfisher]

They say it is in perfect order but there is no warranty and no way to see how it performs so you are taking their word for that. Also why would it be taken off a motor after 200 hrs?

[gazza2006au]

Bill i think the guy selling it has purchased it for a blown engine he had perhaps its crated up professionally so he must have bought it from someone who deals with this kind of thing

[gazza2006au]

I think no matter which powerhead i get i will pull it apart its only a 1 to 2 hour job just to inspect the crank journals and bearings and put some assembly lube on those bearings, i think even if i catch something that is worn and change it now it may extend the life of the powerhead plusstarting up a dry engine that has been in storage will likely cause damage unless i crank it over to build the oil pressure before starting it

[gazza2006au]

The seller got back to me this afternoon he was on a interstate trip and didn't see the ebay msg's, if the powerhead is ok looks like i just snagged a good running engine for $2000 place that snoop dog theme here la la la snoop dawg 8-) haha

maybe counting my chickens to early but will see