New Invention Tailfin

[scubapro]

Ho Folks
Has anyone seen or used one of these Tailfins.
It was invented by Peter de Joing. You can view it on facebook. I will be following this with great interest.

[Noelm]

What does it fit, what does it do, what is it?

[Tracker]

noel,have you got faceache. Tailfin Hydrofoil

[Dignity]

Looks interesting concept

[gazza2006au]

I have seen these before they are nothing new, nothing is below the cav plate so it would do absolute nothing btw there are all sorts of hydrfoils out there now i like the ones made for slow trolling or downrigging as i find when i downrigg i am moving to fast i love the bait moving as slowly forward as possible so it stays in the zone longer

image link didnt work, Google Tailfin Hydrofoil Noel

[dicko1980]

Any other feedback from Ausfish Boaters that have experience with the Tailfin Hydrofoil design?

[gazza2006au]

I personally wouldn't waste my money on it Dicko a majority of what your paying for is above the water and does sfa really, invest your money into something like the OZ Plate Hydrofoil much better design and much more durable they are thick aluminium

becareful with some hydrofoils especially those nasty $25 ones i have seen them pointed up, pointed down, level... they do work but are poorly made and very thick which would create a lot of drag especially on say a 15hp engine

[gazza2006au]

Here is the Tailfin hydrofoil

[dicko1980]

Yes mate that is the design I was inquiring about. I have done some of my own research locally around North Queensland and I'm yet to hear any negative feedback about the product with the exception of what it looks like. It's not pretty and that is non-debatable, but by all accounts owners of this design are happy with its performance and speak highly of the product.

[Noelm]

Never used one, don't know anyone who has, but, it just looks like any other fin/foil except most of it would be clear of the water when running, but who knows?

[stevej]

all on heavy slugs by the looks of it

low mounted outboards and using the water rising up from the transom as a water stream for the side of the foil to grab on to

[gazza2006au]

all on heavy slugs by the looks of it

low mounted outboards and using the water rising up from the transom as a water stream for the side of the foil to grab on to

That's the same conclusion i came to otherwise it has no use at all, i wonder how Tailfin is even in business people must just think it looks cool

[stevej]

because it probably adds benefit to there boats the way they are set up
unless you are driving them you cant really judge

[myusernam]

If u painted it pink and bolted some dildos to it might not look so bad

[GBC]

It will gain traction in the FNQ 'chop' and then some poor bastard will try one out down here. Trimmed out coming in through a bar that piece of shit will bog a transom and kill somebody. All been done before and nobody ever learns.

[catshark]

Tailfin...........really? How about calling it letterbox. id only accept that on a parsun outboard.

[gazza2006au]

Tailfin...........really? How about calling it letterbox. id only accept that on a parsun outboard.

Haha drive the boat in the drive way put a "no junk mail" sign on it ;D;D;D

[Brettoh]

I know its an old thread and Im not disparaging the guy or his product but can anyone tell me what this means?

Lots of people are very happy with their boats performance but do not know the boats hull stroke can now be controlled that instantly spring loads all of the hull movements before they happen while smaller and controllable as well as while they are happening as I said reflective energy is being used to spring load all of the hull movements in all directions, this product is far superior than all of the standard marine hydrofoils and uses a complete different innovation cheers

[Brettoh]

I just cant accept anecdotal evidence. I need to have some sort of explanation that the engineering part of my brain can comprehend. I am at a loss with this explanation, not saying it isnt correct, maybe its my lack of knowledge but can anyone translate please?

Hi Folks
WHAT CAT`S MUST HAVE IS THE Tailfin Water Rail (https://www.facebook.com/Tailfin-Water-Rail-745952562443590/?__cft__[0]=AZX4VaZSEmXIXgK6sU59KqiXVCc4eHwIIywKMoKh3XVpaV3Dq UcZHqBKLxHtsCdctOpBAT8-OQaFfPsmNDBdpcgIPyQZcRGzEyuH71aTKiOgj-e12ZUKGrBMtprOOVCh0AjZni7n8iQNeSxFjjgAZsQ5MghF5mXu iCFDPuLqO52eqcSPvrq0pwqC6cWhWGP0gTk&__tn__=kK-R) STERN TRACTION SELF-LEVELLING STEERING SYSTEM
The Tailfin is complementing Cat`s perfectly in all conditions including the Kevalcat Noosa cat and many others.
The Tailfin is also complementing Tri Hull`s and vee hulls perfectly.
The Tailfin is very user friendly as it self-levels no matter which way the boat is leaning.
The Tailfin is engineered from Nature, fish are self-levelling because
of their tailfin having a much stronger positive water flow energy that all ways stays to the underneath side of their Tailfin (https://www.facebook.com/Tailfin-Water-Rail-745952562443590/?__cft__[0]=AZX4VaZSEmXIXgK6sU59KqiXVCc4eHwIIywKMoKh3XVpaV3Dq UcZHqBKLxHtsCdctOpBAT8-OQaFfPsmNDBdpcgIPyQZcRGzEyuH71aTKiOgj-e12ZUKGrBMtprOOVCh0AjZni7n8iQNeSxFjjgAZsQ5MghF5mXu iCFDPuLqO52eqcSPvrq0pwqC6cWhWGP0gTk&__tn__=kK-R),
the weaker negative water flow energy all ways stays to the top side as they tip over from one side to the other and back,
allowing fish to self-level no matter which way they are leaning saving them a massive amount of energy not needing to swim just to stay level.

The Tailfin uses nature that is complete different innovation that increasing a massive 15kg of lifting energy for each outboard than the innovation of standard hydrofoils.

The biggest issue I am hearing for Cat Hulls is falling over in calm waters the Tailfin is helping to stop this from happening,
why
A lot of reasons, extra lifting performance of 15kg for each outboard is a big positive in hull control increasing the hulls hang time between waves for higher bow contact to next wave,

water flow self-levelling steering adds a stern traction energy creating a resistance and restricting all negative unwanted movements while they are small and correctable this system helps to dominating hull movements.
instant self-levelling adds stability and allows the hull to lift higher out of the water all sea directions than without this product fitted to the outboard, the Tailfin changes and now dominates the water dynamics of the hulls.
In rougher waters you want the Tailfin to be the last thing leaving the water contact and the first to contact the water to soften and control movements.

You need this self-levelling stern traction resistance at the steering point at the lowest point of gravity for when 1 of the hulls falls into the void left behind from the 2nd hull when turning
and then the higher water level of that 2nd hull even at the flat water level height in calm water starts to push the hull over causing the 1st hull to dig in and over she goes,
this does not happen so much in rougher waters as the wave volume helps to fill the water void left from the hulls.

I can tell you lifting or lowering the transom height of the outboards is and has always only ever been a band aid fix,

that does not change any of the water dynamics of the hull and is from people that do not have the correct answers for you and will not stop the cat from falling over in calm waters,

[Lovey80]

It’s a complete scam. I’ve seen a couple of complaints from those that got conned and the comments quickly get deleted.

[shakey55]

I’ve just flicked through FaceAche and could not find a negative thing written. Obviously a wonderful product (NOT) or ALL comments in the negative are removed.

I can’t find a negative comment about them. Strange to say the least.

A scam for sure


Sent from my iPad using Ausfish forums

[Mopheus]

Many boats are too stern heavy as a bunch of the extras we like to fit end up back there - reserve tank, dual batteries, washdown pumps, live bait tanks, bait boards etc. Also four strokes fitted to older hulls designed with buoyancy for two strokes.

Add ANY hydrofoil to a stern-heavy boat and it'll improve behaviour by giving extra lift at the expense of drag. Weight redistribution would be better though to move COG forward. The major disadvantage with foils is that in a following sea the stern lift can increase tendency to bow steer and broach so it's not ideal. Adjustable tabs give the stern lift into a head sea but can be retracted in a following sea so are a better fix (plus allow trimming to suit changing conditions). The planing flat of the foil probably takes out a bit of steering responsiveness too.

Doubt there's much functional difference between the Tailfin and a standard hydrofoil - can't see how vertical risers above the antiventilation plate are going to do much. Personally I'd only ever fit a foil on a small boat where weight distribution is tricky or constantly changing, tabs aren't justifiable from a cost or practicality perspective and it's not used in seas that could cause bow steer - pretty much just a tinny for use in calm waters.

TL : DR probably has similar pros and cons as a normal hydrofoil, but adds butt-ugly as a bonus

[Lovey80]

Exactly. From no foil to foil in certain circumstances is going to see a massive improvement. A standard foil to this thing is going to see none.

[MikeC90]

Gee, they write well... Almost as ugly as the actual product haha!

The product would counter roll and pitch of the boat as described but the difference vs a typical foil would be next to nothing in most situations (the vertical planes would increase directional stability if going slow enough for them to be in the water). Overall, just another tuning device that improves some characteristics and harms others... A good set of adjustable tabs is the way to go, allowing the operator add lift and stability when required, then remove it when it's a hindrance.

I still find it quite amazing that mainstream boat manufacturers are so un-inventive when it comes to dynamic hull management. Imagine if all of the planes around the world were still trying to make do with fixed wing geometry, or all the sailing boats couldn't adjust their sails to suit the wind - hopeless! Water is such an effective medium for creating dynamic forces to do good things and goes almost completely unnoticed by boat manufacturers... The Zipwake tab system is a good example of what can be done with very modest/basic controls. Such a system could be expanded to give an almost ESP (as per most cars from this century) like safety blanket that controlled pitch, roll and yaw of the boat in adverse situations (things even the best captain can't do with steering and trim alone). The same system could also be used to generally enhance the boats performance and counter some of the inevitable compromises that come with fixed hull design.

[Mopheus]

I have a set of 450mm Zipwakes here to go on my 16'er. Looking forward to seeing the results.

[disorderly]

Gee, they write well... Almost as ugly as the actual product haha!




Yeah its a real talent being able to bamboozle you with such unintelligible bullsh!t and then sell you a bandaid solution..


"Hi, I`m Peter The Inventor of the Tailfin Water Rail,
we are, all letting people know about the New and exciting Innovation, Tailfin, face surface reflection
steering, 3x performance all sea direction, replacing outdated prop spinning thrust direction steering,
Tailfin frees the prop thrust from levelling duties with a more economical smoother faster dryer ride all sea directions."

[Brettoh]

What does it all mean?
Are these terms hydro engineering secrets?


Yeah its a real talent is being able to bamboozle you with such unintelligible bullsh!t and then sell you a bandaid solution..


"Hi, I`m Peter The Inventor of the Tailfin Water Rail,
we are, all letting people know about the New and exciting Innovation, Tailfin, face surface reflection
steering, 3x performance all sea direction, replacing outdated prop spinning thrust direction steering,
Tailfin frees the prop thrust from levelling duties with a more economical smoother faster dryer ride all sea directions."

[Mopheus]

What does it all mean?
Are these terms hydro engineering secrets?

They don't appear in my copy of 'Fluid Mechanics and Hydraulics' (3rd ed.) by Giles, Evett and Liu but that's somewhat predictable given it's only an introductory primer.

'Fluid Mechanics' (1st ed.) by Streeter and Wylie indexes 'face surface reflection steering' and 'outdated prop spinning thrust direction steering' under 'Ch. 12 Batshittery and other ridiculousness'.

[Tracker]

'Ch. 12 Batshittery and other ridiculousness'.
Thank you,that made my day.;D

[shakey55]

I saw this advertisement for this product and found it strange that an organisation like Australian Volunteer Coast Guard, so I thought I would contact them for a comment on the product.

124559

This is their reply to me

Hi, This campaign is not related to or endorsed by the Australian Volunteer Coast Guard.


Sent from my iPhone using Ausfish forums

[Lovey80]

Peter De Jong has been spamming FB feeds for years with his crap.

"Ch. 12 Batshittery and other ridiculousness" is where his marketing squarely falls.

[inveratta]

anyone need a bridge?

I found with a deep vee hull the dangly bits off the motor which promised so much were pretty useless apart from the basic plate enlargement ...but even it didnt solve the issue in a happy way...effectively lifting the hull via the central point just ending up with the deep vee hull tipping one way or the other in anything other than calmish flat water.

[Lovey80]

anyone need a bridge?

I found with a deep vee hull the dangly bits off the motor which promised so much were pretty useless apart from the basic plate enlargement ...but even it didnt solve the issue in a happy way...effectively lifting the hull via the central point just ending up with the deep vee hull tipping one way or the other in anything other than calmish flat water.

you actually tried this foil?

[Mopheus]

effectively lifting the hull via the central point just ending up with the deep vee hull tipping one way or the other in anything other than calmish flat water.

You obviously just aren't man enough to handle "spinning prop thrust" being replaced with "hull stern traction steering". Only those with brass balls can handle a Tailfin to "boss & level the bow remove instability to skip over that next cutter".

What you were ACTUALLY experiencing (were you but alpha enough to realise it): "Steering is self-levelling the hull" and "holds the hull more level on a water Rail". After all, the "high performance Tailfin is based from the vertical & horizontal tailfin of fish engineered into one working unit."

[inveratta]

no...I actually fixed the problem a while ago......with other strategies...I have an old ally 180HP "plate" foil if you want it.....I simply dont think ..they are worth the money in most cases.Like covers for golf irons and old London bridges ..theres a market for them which is why they exist.

[Spaniard_King]

I have a customer who actually rates these. Hes put one on a 6m boat with a 200 Honda.. he was going to sell the boat before he put one on and hes now hooked... The only thing for me it will put a lot of potential buyer off when they look at your boat. I'm not a fan

[tunaticer]

I have a customer who actually rates these. Hes put one on a 6m boat with a 200 Honda.. he was going to sell the boat before he put one on and hes now hooked... The only thing for me it will put a lot of potential buyer off when they look at your boat. I'm not a fan

So the question remains did your customer try any other hydrofoils to compare to the tailfin? Would he get better performance from another brand?

To me the design is crap and the marketting is worse.

[chocolatemoose]

i had a customer install one on a 5.5mt.........i wouldnt say its the strongest made bolt on accessery,. and it looks just god aweful :P but does it work.. yeah.. somewhat.. though i feel the usual saying. if it was amazing it would be the defult lower unit engine design from major manufactures. still commend anyone that brings a product to market :D