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NAGG
20-08-2018, 09:58 AM
Hi all

I'm looking at ways of making life easier for those off the grid type situations ( boat based camping etc) & one area I'm considering is upgrading my Batteries to Lithium (LiFePO4) Initially for my 24 vlt Minn Kota ( 2 x 100amp - 12 vlt) & eventually the house battery (75/80amp) .... as much as anything this will pull out 40+ kgs of weight.

So aside from the weight loss - I should be able to draw down to much lower levels ( if necessary ) charge quicker either via a generator or solar . ( my understanding is that you can pump in a full amps till 98% rather than 80% like the AGMs)

I'm interested in hearing members experiences - the good & the bad ( yes I've heard the horror stories) but I believe the technology has improved with batteries with built in BMS (Battery management systems) .
Is anyone using solar to charge LiFePO4s .... what is the best system - I'm thinking of putting flexible solar panels on my T Top and running a Roman 15amp inline Solar controller
What chargers are people using ?

Lastly brands - there are two standouts Sentry & Fusion .... but you pay for it - what are some of the other reputable ones ..... it's a big investment .

Lot's of questions I know but as I mentioned it's a big investment & I want to get it right.

Andy56
20-08-2018, 11:06 AM
Hi all

I'm looking at ways of making life easier for those off the grid type situations ( boat based camping etc) & one area I'm considering is upgrading my Batteries to Lithium (LiFePO4) Initially for my 24 vlt Minn Kota ( 2 x 100amp - 12 vlt) & eventually the house battery (75/80amp) .... as much as anything this will pull out 40+ kgs of weight.

So aside from the weight loss - I should be able to draw down to much lower levels ( if necessary ) charge quicker either via a generator or solar . ( my understanding is that you can pump in a full amps till 98% rather than 80% like the AGMs)

I'm interested in hearing members experiences - the good & the bad ( yes I've heard the horror stories) but I believe the technology has improved with batteries with built in BMS (Battery management systems) .
Is anyone using solar to charge LiFePO4s .... what is the best system - I'm thinking of putting flexible solar panels on my T Top and running a Roman 15amp inline Solar controller
What chargers are people using ?

Lastly brands - there are two standouts Sentry & Fusion .... but you pay for it - what are some of the other reputable ones ..... it's a big investment .

Lot's of questions I know but as I mentioned it's a big investment & I want to get it right.

My concern wouldnt be whether they do the job but rather will they survive the shake rattle and roll on a boat. I had a quick google and i wasnt getting any useful info.
The only killer for lithium batteries is the heat management. Electric Car batteries are certainly a long way from just buy off the shelf stuff. ( think climate control). I personally would be weary of such large off the shelf lithium batteries. In a controlled environment, they are absolutely magic, on a boat? Not so sure.

NAGG
20-08-2018, 12:19 PM
My concern wouldnt be whether they do the job but rather will they survive the shake rattle and roll on a boat. I had a quick google and i wasnt getting any useful info.
The only killer for lithium batteries is the heat management. Electric Car batteries are certainly a long way from just buy off the shelf stuff. ( think climate control). I personally would be weary of such large off the shelf lithium batteries. In a controlled environment, they are absolutely magic, on a boat? Not so sure.

This is where the brand of battery come into it ....... The better ones are actually designed for more rugged applications like boating & 4WD with BMS that monitor charge , discharge , temp etc ....... With temperature apparently it's cold conditions that are the concern ( charging in freezing conditions) .
So ..... I could choose a Sentry at $1800 / battery & would have no concern ..... a Fusion at $1200 ( I know they are good batteries - but it is a big difference) ....... Then there are generics at $800-$1000 which could be dubious .

Chris

Andy56
20-08-2018, 01:01 PM
This is where the brand of battery come into it ....... The better ones are actually designed for more rugged applications like boating & 4WD with BMS that monitor charge , discharge , temp etc ....... With temperature apparently it's cold conditions that are the concern ( charging in freezing conditions) .
So ..... I could choose a Sentry at $1800 / battery & would have no concern ..... a Fusion at $1200 ( I know they are good batteries - but it is a big difference) ....... Then there are generics at $800-$1000 which could be dubious .

Chris

at those prices, i just wouldnt bother.
Be interesting what other info does turn up. Sticker shock has killed my financial interest, lol.

NAGG
20-08-2018, 02:09 PM
at those prices, i just wouldnt bother.
Be interesting what other info does turn up. Sticker shock has killed my financial interest, lol.

Dont worry ..... those prices still shock me
But I'm weighing up the advantages when away camping / boating. ..... 2 leccy batteries & a camp battery which will need daily charging .

Chris

gazza2006au
20-08-2018, 02:45 PM
NAG lithium technology has been around a while i have been using it in my radio toys for around 20 years it is advancing so bloody fast but i something goes wrong it really goes wrong

i have only played with lithium ion and polymer not actual Lifepo's but if one shorts out your really in the deep end and what happens if something electronically fails and u over charge? would u really want to risk your whole rig? would insurance still cover you?

risky... i would stick to basic's, i love modern technology but some things should be let alone

i have crashed radio control planes at 250kph dead set strait into the ground with lithium polymer batteries that haven't exploded or caught on fire but i was absolutely shitting my pants taking them home safely in the car, all thought we use them a lot in every day to day activities they are a dangerous product

gazza2006au
20-08-2018, 02:54 PM
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=lifepo+battery+fire

tunaticer
20-08-2018, 02:58 PM
Chris, investigate the shut off voltage for the batteries you intend to use.
I have a 20amp Fusion battery that has a shut off of 11.3 volts, as soon as it reaches that it shuts down until recharged.
Apart from that I have no problems with the battery.

At least with AGM and wet cells you can draw down much further if need be.

Andy56
20-08-2018, 03:53 PM
Chris, investigate the shut off voltage for the batteries you intend to use.
I have a 20amp Fusion battery that has a shut off of 11.3 volts, as soon as it reaches that it shuts down until recharged.
Apart from that I have no problems with the battery.

At least with AGM and wet cells you can draw down much further if need be.

As I said, in an electric car, they are managed to an ipteenth of their life. Out in the open, i am not sure you can . Heat is still a killer. Dendrite formation is still an issue even if new breakthroughs happen every week. I just dont see any advantage at those price points. Dont get me wrong, i think its got possibilities but.........In this day and age, technology isnt fully tested before going to market. Dont be the bunny doing the research for them.

NAGG
20-08-2018, 04:02 PM
Chris, investigate the shut off voltage for the batteries you intend to use.
I have a 20amp Fusion battery that has a shut off of 11.3 volts, as soon as it reaches that it shuts down until recharged.
Apart from that I have no problems with the battery.

At least with AGM and wet cells you can draw down much further if need be.

That sounds about right .....

I'm not particularly fussed with being able to run a battery to death ..... specially on running a leccy. That said being able to run a a battery to 80% DOD & still have a life of 3500 cycles is awesome - You'd kill an AGM in a few hundred cycles . Plus the AGM you really need to bring it back up to full charge (6-8 hrs charging)

Chris

The Mad Cat
20-08-2018, 05:51 PM
Hi Nagg,
I have just fitted lithium batteries to run the 24v Minn Kota. I went with 8 individual cells which ended up a lot easier to fit, 100 amps @ 24v and only 26kg. I tried EV Power in WA but they would not talk to me when I rang, the lady said I must email my questions. I really wanted to talk to someone as I was not sure I was on the right track. I didn't bother to email I rang EV Works also in WA and spoke to Tim Brunner for about 20 minutes and guess what placed an order for the batteries from him. I have spoken to him several times since and he has advised on a Battery monitor and other stuff which he was not selling, he just wanted me to get the right gear. I don't have an opinion yet on how they perform as fishing trips have been a bit of a rarity lately.
https://www.evworks.com.au

TMC

Gon Fishun
20-08-2018, 08:01 PM
What about batteries out of a mobility scooter? I run 2 in the tinny, 1 for motor the other for accessories and use a smart charger . Works ok where I can do the basics, but I'm hopeless when it comes to electronics. Cheers.

stevet
20-08-2018, 08:53 PM
Hi all

here is a tread from 'The Hull Truth" on building lithium batteries
https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/911947-building-lithium-batteries-my-boat.html?911947=#post11164340

I am looking into purchasing some of the cells -I have been quoted 6 cells for US$180 - I would love to buy 12 cells enough for 2 batteries - if I could find a way to get them shipped by sea to OZ

Anyone interested in a group buy?

Stevet

myusernam
21-08-2018, 08:00 AM
from what i've read allthough they cost more they are already more economical than AGM's due to their lifespan.
definatley the way to go in the future for large banks when costs come down

Lovey80
21-08-2018, 10:40 PM
Hi all

here is a tread from 'The Hull Truth" on building lithium batteries
https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/911947-building-lithium-batteries-my-boat.html?911947=#post11164340

I am looking into purchasing some of the cells -I have been quoted 6 cells for US$180 - I would love to buy 12 cells enough for 2 batteries - if I could find a way to get them shipped by sea to OZ

Anyone interested in a group buy?

Stevet

they are talking the relatively new LTO lithium technology. Less energy dense than the LifePO4 but much safer again in a boating application and many more life cycles. If you were using your boat a lot and or knew you were keeping your current boat for a very long time they look economically viable.

chocolatemoose
23-08-2018, 06:57 PM
Once you go lithium..... no going back! :D

MyWay
23-08-2018, 08:16 PM
check this out
https://sciencetrends.com/will-graphene-battery-power-tomorrows-tesla-car/

I heard this batteries are already used in some small airplanes and helicopters

chocolatemoose
23-08-2018, 08:30 PM
graphine is a wonder material. . all in due course. electric is very much future :D

stevet
23-08-2018, 08:46 PM
There is some real interesting stuff on the horizon

check ouit this from the Royal Melbourne Institue of technology

https://www.rmit.edu.au/news/all-news/2018/mar/all-power-to-the-proton

NAGG
23-08-2018, 09:15 PM
from what i've read allthough they cost more they are already more economical than AGM's due to their lifespan.
definatley the way to go in the future for large banks when costs come down


lets be honest though ..... how many cycles does a battery really go through. I would be flat out doing 50 cycles a year for my Leccy batteries . .... so 500 cycles over 10 years . So even if you discharged the life out of a AGM you’d still get 4 or 5 years. I used a 200amp for a 54lb minn Kota and because I had so much amperage..... the battery was rarely discharged to a low DOD and so 8 years later and the battery is still good. Well maintained batteries with 50% DOD.... will last a long time , so the cost benefit may not be the be all. I can’t see a Lithium lasting 20 years.
Where the benefits do come from a LiFePO4 are in the weight , ability to go to 80% DOD and the charge rate cut in half. ...... so in my case having 2 x 100amp Gels at 50kgs .... I could cut that weight to 25kgs and realistically run them for longer without hurting them . ..... the other option is to run 75amp batteries at 17kgs / pair and still have as much usable charge . The recharge time could be cut to 1/3rd making solar a real charging option or requiring only running a generator for 2-3 hrs . These are the really appealing traits that make Lithium worth considering IMO .

Chris

The Mad Cat
24-08-2018, 07:17 AM
One of the reasons I went with Lithium was I figured I could stay with a 24v Minn Kota because I should have maybe gone to a 36v but I saved about a $1000 on the Minn Kota so put that towards the cost of the batteries which were $1180. Yes the 24v motor will work a bit harder but I have more useable amps up my sleeve with the lithium.

TMC

Smithy
24-08-2018, 08:03 AM
It's a long video at 18min but not too bad with a tonne of info. Mick does the BASS circuit and has done a lot of the bream and bass boats for the guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb3S9ynl7BE

Dignity
25-08-2018, 08:37 AM
I was toying with the idea of introducing another battery to better manage my power requirements and 120amp at 11 kg is more than suitable as a weight reduction and currently can get them for about $850 but the battery dimensions are almost identical to the same in an AGM battery (5mm shorter in height only). Now if it was half the width I'd be putting it in now as space just as much as weight is the big killer for me.

I guess I'll be waiting unless I buy a new boat.

NAGG
27-08-2018, 09:02 AM
It's a long video at 18min but not too bad with a tonne of info. Mick does the BASS circuit and has done a lot of the bream and bass boats for the guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb3S9ynl7BE

Thanks for the video ..... pretty well sums up the benefits .

I'm still to get to the bottom of why the Sentry batteries are so expensive (bluetooth ???) ..... 5 year warranty . the premium paid is a few to several hundred dollars more. I've seen the 100amp for as high as $1900
I found it interesting that they were promoting the use of what I believe is a motor bike battery for the cranking roll ( from memory he uses two back to back) .

Chris

NAGG
27-08-2018, 09:11 AM
I was toying with the idea of introducing another battery to better manage my power requirements and 120amp at 11 kg is more than suitable as a weight reduction and currently can get them for about $850 but the battery dimensions are almost identical to the same in an AGM battery (5mm shorter in height only). Now if it was half the width I'd be putting it in now as space just as much as weight is the big killer for me.

I guess I'll be waiting unless I buy a new boat.

Which brand of Lithiums were you looking at ? 11kgs for 120amp sounds very light .
You are spot on with dimensions - if anything they are slightly larger than a traditional deep cycle battery. I compared the measurements of a 100amp Fusion LiFePO4 against a 100amp Sunstate GEL and it was about 10% bigger but 12.1kgs lighter .

Chris

NAGG
27-08-2018, 09:24 AM
One of the reasons I went with Lithium was I figured I could stay with a 24v Minn Kota because I should have maybe gone to a 36v but I saved about a $1000 on the Minn Kota so put that towards the cost of the batteries which were $1180. Yes the 24v motor will work a bit harder but I have more useable amps up my sleeve with the lithium.

TMC

I did the same thing on a previous boat ...... not with lithiums but put a thumper 200amp AGM . I found that when I had a 74lb minn with 2 x 100amp AGMs - that I would pretty well flatten the batteries on a days fishing on the barra dams. I dropped back to a 54lb Minn with the 200amp AGM & never once flattened it . The most telling thing was that I had to throw away the 2 x 100amp AGMs after about 4 years . The 200amp I still have after 8 years & is still going strong because it has probably never been pulled down to below 50% DOD .

I've ordered a pair of Fusion LiFePO4s for my 80lb Minn ..... but stayed at 100amp effectively giving me about 160amp of usable power.

Chris

Dignity
27-08-2018, 09:31 AM
Which brand of Lithiums were you looking at ? 11kgs for 120amp sounds very light .
You are spot on with dimensions - if anything they are slightly larger than a traditional deep cycle battery. I compared the measurements of a 100amp Fusion LiFePO4 against a 100amp Sunstate GEL and it was about 10% bigger but 12.1kgs lighter .

Chris
iTech120 by iTechWorld from memory, normally $1199 but they had a special last week for $849.

Sam

NAGG
27-08-2018, 11:07 AM
Well , I ended up biting the bullet & ordered a pair of 100amp Fusion LiFePO4s which should be here in the next couple of days .
These will replace a pair of 100amp GELs which were running the 80lb Minn kota - saving me 24kgs .... more importantly the weight is coming off the bow end of the Barcrusher which had a bit of a bow down attitude when at rest.

I ended up choosing the Fusion brand - as they are reputable & have been making Lithiums for quite a few years now ..... Yes they are more expensive but there are too many unknowns with many of the other options out there.

We'll see how they go

Chris

Houndslair
22-09-2018, 01:48 PM
Hi
How will you charge the Fusion lithium batteries?
A lithium battery charger or conventional?
They reckon you don’t need a lithium charger with the Fusion.
cheers
Dave

chocolatemoose
22-09-2018, 02:12 PM
Most decent chargers have a lithium mode, Victron for example

Hi
How will you charge the Fusion lithium batteries?
A lithium battery charger or conventional?
They reckon you don’t need a lithium charger with the Fusion.
cheers
Dave

Volvo
22-09-2018, 04:17 PM
Hi all

I'm looking at ways of making life easier for those off the grid type situations ( boat based camping etc) & one area I'm considering is upgrading my Batteries to Lithium (LiFePO4) Initially for my 24 vlt Minn Kota ( 2 x 100amp - 12 vlt) & eventually the house battery (75/80amp) .... as much as anything this will pull out 40+ kgs of weight.

So aside from the weight loss - I should be able to draw down to much lower levels ( if necessary ) charge quicker either via a generator or solar . ( my understanding is that you can pump in a full amps till 98% rather than 80% like the AGMs)

I'm interested in hearing members experiences - the good & the bad ( yes I've heard the horror stories) but I believe the technology has improved with batteries with built in BMS (Battery management systems) .
Is anyone using solar to charge LiFePO4s .... what is the best system - I'm thinking of putting flexible solar panels on my T Top and running a Roman 15amp inline Solar controller
What chargers are people using ?

Lastly brands - there are two standouts Sentry & Fusion .... but you pay for it - what are some of the other reputable ones ..... it's a big investment .

Lot's of questions I know but as I mentioned it's a big investment & I want to get it right.

Chris , re: which or what type i caanot answer but many times on the Caravanning circuit i have talked with those that have the litium battery setup in their Vans and the word is " More than happy , and they can free camp for days witout worrying about power" .
How the setup would go in a Boat especially a Tinny is one that i will follow very closely myself but from the uploaded youtube video does sound promising ey .
Get a chance have a squizz on the Australian caravanning Forums or Grey Nomads Forums and heaps of info there ey..

stevej
22-09-2018, 11:27 PM
when they short a cell or across the termoinals they explode

I was using one to start my kart engine due to the high cranking amps achievable, in a rac another kart made contact and the battery shorted and instantly discharged.
it snapped the tubing of the frame and burnt through my Kevlar seat and race suit

rayken1938
23-09-2018, 03:21 AM
Same thing will happen with a lead acid battery if you drop a spanner across the terminals,
Cheers
Ray

TheRealAndy
23-09-2018, 08:59 PM
Well , I ended up biting the bullet & ordered a pair of 100amp Fusion LiFePO4s which should be here in the next couple of days .
These will replace a pair of 100amp GELs which were running the 80lb Minn kota - saving me 24kgs .... more importantly the weight is coming off the bow end of the Barcrusher which had a bit of a bow down attitude when at rest.

I ended up choosing the Fusion brand - as they are reputable & have been making Lithiums for quite a few years now ..... Yes they are more expensive but there are too many unknowns with many of the other options out there.

We'll see how they go

Chris

Keep us informed.

I have a 120aH house battery in the stinky, and I run the fridge 24/7. It's all good on sunny days, but 3 days of cloud and the solar panels struggle. I would love to double the capacity to at least 200aH, but the weight is a major problem. I have been musing over buying some lithium cells, but at around 3-4k depending on which solution you choose I want to know that I am going to get a good 10 years out of them.

The main problem I have, is that I have read so much conflicting information about lithium. There is very little information from manufacturers and most stuff comes from amateurs. But it seems if you get it right, the tend to last from all reports. Maybe I should just do the same, bite the bullet and just order them.

I was leaning toward the enerdrive solution, cant remember what cells the use. But figured you could buy the control gear once and replace the cells in the future if needed. I am guessing that the sealed solutions like Fusion you have have to throw the whole lot away.

The Mad Cat
24-09-2018, 05:24 AM
I ended up with 100 amps at 24v or 200 amps at 12v for $1180 + freight to FNQ and only weighs 26kg by buying 8 individual cell from EV Works in WA. Compared to some of the prices some are charging I'm happy with my set up. As to how good these batteries are I haven't had them long enough to comment, with a little research I found they were being used in RV setups for a while now and couldn't find any complaints. The batteries are CALB CA100's

TMC

Dignity
24-09-2018, 07:27 AM
I ended up with 100 amps at 24v or 200 amps at 12v for $1180 + freight to FNQ and only weighs 26kg by buying 8 individual cell from EV Works in WA. Compared to some of the prices some are charging I'm happy with my set up. As to how good these batteries are I haven't had them long enough to comment, with a little research I found they were being used in RV setups for a while now and couldn't find any complaints. The batteries are CALB CA100's

TMC
TMC, did this include a SBM or a BMS, if so what brand or type.

Sam

rayken1938
24-09-2018, 07:40 AM
That is cheaper than buying 2 100a/h lifelines which are well over $600 each.
Cheers
Ray

The Mad Cat
24-09-2018, 08:06 AM
TMC, did this include a SBM or a BMS, if so what brand or type.

Sam

No Dig,
Tim Brunner from EV Works talked me out of the BMS, I can't remember what he said exactly.

TMC

Dignity
24-09-2018, 10:42 AM
For less than $100 I would be putting one in. I think even their website recommends one.

hungry6
24-09-2018, 11:13 AM
You only need BMS if you have 6 or more cells within the pack and cycling it on a daily basis. for a 12V there is only 4 in the pack and you would be lucky to cycle it once a fortnight.
My cell show less than 0 .01V difference between cells after 12 months and I cycle them about 2 time a week.
BMS in a 12v is pointless and the voltage drift is so small, by the time they become an issue, you'll probably need new cells anyway, and that would be years away.
Break open any 12V lithium battery and you will find most will be devoid of BMS, and those that do have them, they are basic and crude circuitry and most probably be more of a liability than asset.

stevej
24-09-2018, 10:15 PM
not with the same affect lipos do it amazingly well

NAGG
22-05-2021, 07:47 AM
Well , I ended up biting the bullet & ordered a pair of 100amp Fusion LiFePO4s which should be here in the next couple of days .
These will replace a pair of 100amp GELs which were running the 80lb Minn kota - saving me 24kgs .... more importantly the weight is coming off the bow end of the Barcrusher which had a bit of a bow down attitude when at rest.

I ended up choosing the Fusion brand - as they are reputable & have been making Lithiums for quite a few years now ..... Yes they are more expensive but there are too many unknowns with many of the other options out there.

We'll see how they go

Chris

I just wanted to go back in time to see how long I had been running the Fusion LiFePO4 for ...... & here is my original post when I purchased the batteries. (Installed Sept 2018)

These have been faultless over the time but I just upgraded to 125amp to ensure of a full days spotlocking.

One thing of note & could be of interest for anyone contemplating going to LiFePO4 - The Fusion batteries have come down in price from near to $1100 down to low $800s (2 x 100amp @ $780 each . This is online through the Battery store which is where I purchased mine originally.
That's a reasonable price for a quality battery ( little risk considering many of the horror stories with batteries sourced out of China)

Chris

Noelm
22-05-2021, 07:56 AM
OH, how I miss the "old days" when batteries were just batteries, motors were all two stroke and you just chose the brand your father had, boats were just boats, you had an Easyrider, Seafarer or a Quintrex, a big trip was about 30mins and a couple of 5 gallon tanks was plenty of fuel, an old paper Furuno sounder and some landmarks was enough to find your secret spot........

NAGG
22-05-2021, 10:08 AM
OH, how I miss the "old days" when batteries were just batteries, motors were all two stroke and you just chose the brand your father had, boats were just boats, you had an Easyrider, Seafarer or a Quintrex, a big trip was about 30mins and a couple of 5 gallon tanks was plenty of fuel, an old paper Furuno sounder and some landmarks was enough to find your secret spot........

You really miss them :o

Those days that you never knew if the motor would start or breakdown ::) ..... the days were people carried Auxiliary motors as a just in case .

My early boating memories are full of breakdowns / tow jobs & looking for mechanics when away. ...... nah mate you can have them .

That said even in my time of boat ownership where every boat (with the exception of my Barcrusher .... with just 23 hrs on the clock) was bought new there were still issues - the 94 Mariner 75hp 2 banger gave me some grief but I consider that old tech . 2006 onwards have been pretty well a pleasure when it came to boats ( 1 major failure at 20 hours - gearbox on a 60 yammi 4 stroke) -

Trailers not so much .
leccy motors between 2006 & 2018 have been nightmares ..... but have improved now (touch wood)

Sounders have been really good except for the odd plug issue .

Bring on the technology I say ......

Chris

stevej
30-09-2021, 03:21 PM
Has anyone tried the renogy batteries ?

NAGG
30-09-2021, 03:30 PM
l
Has anyone tried the renogy batteries ?

I haven't but they are reasonably well regarded .

from memory Will Prowse had done a video tear down on his YouTube channel

Chris

stevej
30-09-2021, 04:03 PM
Thanks I’ll go have a look

they have a self heating version which considering I fish in winter and gets believe freezing when charging will help

NAGG
30-09-2021, 05:54 PM
Thanks I’ll go have a look

they have a self heating version which considering I fish in winter and gets believe freezing when charging will help

That is the biggest concern with LiFePO4 is charging in cold temperatures -

I look forward to hearing about it .

Chris

stevej
03-10-2021, 10:20 AM
Have ordered two will see how they go

thanks for pointing out the you tube tear down
https://youtu.be/aahHWaV6Zdk

stevej
05-10-2021, 08:26 AM
Also ordered a victron blue smart 25amp charger for it
the full waterproof model wasn’t much dearer but this unit can do all battery types so ordered some extra fixed leads and can use to to charge the hybrid lead acid starting battery too


if they work ok I’ll grab a 50 amp one for just the Sounders

Crazy when you realise one 110 ah lead acid equals 2x 100 and 1x 50 amp lithium

NAGG
05-10-2021, 01:45 PM
Also ordered a victron blue smart 25amp charger for it
the full waterproof model wasn’t much dearer but this unit can do all battery types so ordered some extra fixed leads and can use to to charge the hybrid lead acid starting battery too


if they work ok I’ll grab a 50 amp one for just the Sounders

Crazy when you realise one 110 ah lead acid equals 2x 100 and 1x 50 amp lithium

Yep - I'm running 2 x 125 amp LiFePO4 batteries for my Minn Kota (28kgs) Vs the original 2 x 100amp Gels (53kgs) ..... plus over double the usable power - It's certainly worth the money spent .

I cant fault my victrons (Bluesmart 12/25s) & I'm probably going to buy one for general charging.

Chris

Dignity
05-10-2021, 06:40 PM
Saw this one today
https://www.facebook.com/105887311581115/posts/173389504830895/

NAGG
06-10-2021, 04:16 AM
Saw this one today
https://www.facebook.com/105887311581115/posts/173389504830895/

Interesting - I've just asked what the battery case is made of

Typically ABS or stabilised polypropylene is used .... but this is something quite novel (POM aka acrylic or polycarbonate ?)

Chris

NAGG
06-10-2021, 04:26 AM
Saw this one today
https://www.facebook.com/105887311581115/posts/173389504830895/

apparently not waterproof

Chris

stevej
07-10-2021, 02:36 PM
I don’t think many are waterproof, well no cheap ones “not that $700 is play money”
the renogys have that data port on top when they turn up I may just heat sleeve the whole battery
will have to wait and see when they arrive

stevej
12-10-2021, 12:12 PM
124682124682

124684

one turned up today with the charger
they come with a closed cell foam packaging and used that to secure the battery in the battery box
it’s held very securely just with the foam

the victron charger is a nice bit of kit too 45 mins to bring the battery up to full charge with a 35 ah top up in 45 mins
I got a second set of terminal cables for the lead acid hybrid start battery and will just move the charger between the two batteries
hope to use it next week if this wind goes away

124683124683
124685

Dignity
14-06-2022, 05:03 PM
124682124682

124684

one turned up today with the charger
they come with a closed cell foam packaging and used that to secure the battery in the battery box
it’s held very securely just with the foam

the victron charger is a nice bit of kit too 45 mins to bring the battery up to full charge with a 35 ah top up in 45 mins
I got a second set of terminal cables for the lead acid hybrid start battery and will just move the charger between the two batteries
hope to use it next week if this wind goes away

124683124683
124685

Steve, how are you finding the Renogy battery? My AGM in the tinnie only gave me 4 hrs usage today, they just don't make them like they used to as it is only 7 years old, so I am up finally for a lithium. I did like the 120ah Itech one mainly due to the daughter needing a good supply for her CPAP when camping but there reviews seem to be split 50/50 with lack of service once a complaint is made making up the most of the bad reviews when they go into sleep mode.

Spaniard_King
14-06-2022, 06:25 PM
I have a full Renogy setup in my van.; I run 1 x 200AH which was advertised with the com and control port but turned up with internal blue tooth and 1 amp charge to activate. Just about to add another 200 AH, 3000 watt inverter and more solar. Currently have a Renogy 50 Amp DCDC MPPT controler charger, Coms hub and Victron 240V charger. All the Renogy stuff is monitored through their DC Home app which is very easy to use/setup. Saved a motza compared to stuff like Enerdrive

stevej
14-06-2022, 07:30 PM
Hi dignity
working fine but havnt been out that much
have three 100 ah now one for the electric and two for the sounders and live scope setup

They just work and all made their 100 ah rating

I take one out now and then to use in a battery box for the car fridge when we go to get groceries in summer as it’s a hour drive to woolies

i don’t know about the sleep mode issue as I never plan to let it get to 0percent

theirs a sequence to deactivate them but would have to go look it up again
one benefit is the ability to turn them off with the provided cable and switch

Dignity
14-06-2022, 08:34 PM
Renogy sounds like a contender. EOFY is upon us and prices are reduced on most brands.

stevej
14-06-2022, 08:57 PM
They are a pouch cell though

I bought the cheap ones at 609 on special and not sure what I’ll do if trying to charge when camping in near freezing conditions

they do a heated version for a bit more

NAGG
15-06-2022, 07:09 AM
Just keep one thing in mind with Renogy LiFePO$ batteries - you cannot use them in series (ie 2 x 12vlt = 24 volt)

Other than being based on pouch cells - they seem to be a pretty good battery

Chris

NAGG
15-06-2022, 08:30 AM
Here you go - A Renogy tear down .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aahHWaV6Zdk&list=PL7bvIB2TPsCjs5Fol7oDwE0k40bpXZBQs&index=10

Dignity
15-06-2022, 09:57 AM
Thanks Chris, watched it when previously posted and again yesterday. I only need a 12v system so I don't have a need to run in series at this stage. Interestingly their batteries are the same physical size as my current AGM whereas others I've been researching are slightly bigger all around, my current battery box will take a battery 310 long, a lot were coming in 325 or 330 long, also height seems to increase. Wish they made a 120Ah one as that would be better for the dual usage I need it for.

NAGG
15-06-2022, 10:43 AM
Thanks Chris, watched it when previously posted and again yesterday. I only need a 12v system so I don't have a need to run in series at this stage. Interestingly their batteries are the same physical size as my current AGM whereas others I've been researching are slightly bigger all around, my current battery box will take a battery 310 long, a lot were coming in 325 or 330 long, also height seems to increase. Wish they made a 120Ah one as that would be better for the dual usage I need it for.

All good - I just wanted to point out that if anyone was considering buying Renogy for a 24 volt system ...... dont .

Yeh that does seem to be the case with sizing - Both my Fusion & Enerdrive batteries required the bigger 350mm battery boxes

Chris

stevej
15-06-2022, 01:35 PM
They do do a 24v battery now which is reasonably priced
would have been a lot better option then the way a fellow fishnet member went

NAGG
15-06-2022, 01:42 PM
They do do a 24v battery now which is reasonably priced
would have been a lot better option then the way a fellow fishnet member went

Are they not small capacity batteries ?

50amp

Chris

stevej
15-06-2022, 03:20 PM
They had a 100ah for $990 advertised a few weeks back

Outback also do one for around the same price, also a super cheap battery but better then some of the real shit on eBay

NAGG
15-06-2022, 04:01 PM
They had a 100ah for $990 advertised a few weeks back

Outback also do one for around the same price, also a super cheap battery but better then some of the real shit on eBay

Sure it was Renogy ?

I just went onto the local web site & the international one - They do a LiFePO$ 25amp & 50amp in 24 volt - that's it

Chris

stevej
15-06-2022, 04:45 PM
Pretty sure as was going to order it
might have removed it or my COVID brain might have imagined it lol

Dignity
15-06-2022, 04:47 PM
Anyone had anything to do with Atlas or Giant sold by Aussie Batteries & Solar. Kings also have them but from what I can figure out with all of these companies it's the after sales service that hits the complaints dept.

NAGG
15-06-2022, 06:55 PM
Anyone had anything to do with Atlas or Giant sold by Aussie Batteries & Solar. Kings also have them but from what I can figure out with all of these companies it's the after sales service that hits the complaints dept.

I think Atlas might be OK .

I do like Fusion - a little more expensive but a good reputation with a long history in the battery market ( one of the longest in Lithium technology in Aust) ....... I'm certainly happy with the two I own . Their prices have come down by around 25% since I bought mine .

Chris

Alchemy
15-06-2022, 09:44 PM
I’ve gone with itechworld. I have two x 48ah slim batteries behind hilux back seat. I managed to get them into sleep mode once as I stuffed up and accidentally created a short when disconnecting a wire. Anyway, I put the battery charger on and it woke them up. I’ve also put 4 x 200ah of theirs in the boat. I’ve found them quite responsive when I needed advice. Lots of choices available now and Renogy look good too.

NAGG
16-06-2022, 06:37 AM
I’ve gone with itechworld. I have two x 48ah slim batteries behind hilux back seat. I managed to get them into sleep mode once as I stuffed up and accidentally created a short when disconnecting a wire. Anyway, I put the battery charger on and it woke them up. I’ve also put 4 x 200ah of theirs in the boat. I’ve found them quite responsive when I needed advice. Lots of choices available now and Renogy look good too.

That's the problem - too many choices .

How do you know which ones are good & which are crap - All you have to do is watch Will Prowse do his tear downs on Youtube . Crappy BMS , poor workmanship , used cells , no temp monitoring , cheap everything .....
The Renogy tear down was a good example of what a well made battery should look like ....... that's a very well made battery & you can see where the money goes when say compared to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpLl6ywpQPo


The thing to keep in mind is that most of the batteries on the market are produced in China in factories that just badge engineer ....... plenty of sellers just go onto Alibaba & order a pallet or container of batteries ...... then sell them to people like Gazza .

At least if you buy a battery through a known reputable retailer or buy known brands - it's likely that you will get a better quality battery ..... it's their reputation on the line

Chris

chris69
16-06-2022, 10:57 PM
Anyone had anything to do with Atlas or Giant sold by Aussie Batteries & Solar. Kings also have them but from what I can figure out with all of these companies it's the after sales service that hits the complaints dept.

Yer got a 175 amp atlas only use it at xmass for the fridge so far and only put a charge in it the other day because its been 6mths since useing it i got it when they were $650, my plan is to use it up from of the boat for the electric and take the 160amp amg out thats 42kg, i bought a proper 240v charger and solar charger from kickass but it says you can use a amg charger but it wont charge it to 100% i love the 15kg weight of the 175amp.

NAGG
17-06-2022, 09:28 AM
Yer got a 175 amp atlas only use it at xmass for the fridge so far and only put a charge in it the other day because its been 6mths since useing it i got it when they were $650, my plan is to use it up from of the boat for the electric and take the 160amp amg out thats 42kg, i bought a proper 240v charger and solar charger from kickass but it says you can use a amg charger but it wont charge it to 100% i love the 15kg weight of the 175amp.

I had a 200am AGM in my old Seajay when I was running a 12 volt MK - That was an absolute bugger to get in & out of the boat ... 55kgs & to think you can now buy a battery that weighs 12kgs & will give you the same amount of usable power ......... gotta love those LiFePO$.

Chris

PeterInSA
17-06-2022, 11:38 AM
When our 2 x 120 Amp/hr AGM batteries in our caravan need to be replaced am thinking about buying 1 lithium below, appreciate any comments ( 75Kg to 12Kg, weight saving)

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/384830792833

NAGG
17-06-2022, 02:45 PM
When our 2 x 120 Amp/hr AGM batteries in our caravan need to be replaced am thinking about buying 1 lithium below, appreciate any comments ( 75Kg to 12Kg, weight saving)

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/384830792833

Never heard of them ....... roll the dice

My suggestion would be go & find a reputable battery ..... like a fusion - it will cost you more but you will have a quality battery.

Chris

chris69
17-06-2022, 06:23 PM
When our 2 x 120 Amp/hr AGM batteries in our caravan need to be replaced am thinking about buying 1 lithium below, appreciate any comments ( 75Kg to 12Kg, weight saving)

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/384830792833

Theres a lot of cheap lithium out there do your home work as Nagg has said its a roll f the dice theres a lot of dodggy claim out there,it only when you get it and see what you draw out of it and what you put back in do you know weither its a good battery or not and that you got the amps you have paid for.

NAGG
18-06-2022, 09:17 AM
Lots of cheap batteries are based on used cells - others are poorly constructed , no working temp censors , soldered telephone wire .... then there is the BMS which is the heart of a good battery .

Too many unscrupulous manufactures & sellers

Chris

Dignity
18-06-2022, 10:15 AM
Theres a lot of cheap lithium out there do your home work as Nagg has said its a roll f the dice theres a lot of dodggy claim out there,it only when you get it and see what you draw out of it and what you put back in do you know weither its a good battery or not and that you got the amps you have paid for.

I will need to get one soon and I'm having a look at the Giant Brand sold by Aussie Batteries, I just found out a mate has had a 130 ah for a year now and he says it's working really well, has a bluetooth in the BMS so he can monitor draw etc. They are having a sale now as are many other brands as it is EOFY.

NAGG
18-06-2022, 11:04 AM
I see I started this thread in August 2018 & had my pair of Fusion 100amp LiFePO$ in the boat at the beginning of September 2018. Those batteries ran my 24 volt Minn Kota for 3 years before I went to 125amp Enerdrives last year. :) That extra capacity made a difference .


One of the Fusions ended up in my utes Canopy running my Evakool fridge drawer 24/7 (10 months - so far so good) & the other in a battery box for camping .

It's certainly been a positive (no pun intended) experience - but that comes from knowing you have spent the coin on good quality batteries - Those Fusions were up the pointy end of the boat & have been subjected to a fair bit of pounding with no issues .

The Enerdrives are going as expected .

Last year I decided to replace the 2 x Calcium (Atlas) batteries that were running my boat . Now I have a dedicated LifePO4 Lithiumax Restart 10 (1000cca / 40amp cycling) cranking battery matched to a + a Electribank ESS 70amp LiFePO4 - so combined I have 100amp (usable)cycling which is equivalent to 200amp AGM . These are running really well & I've saved about 40kgs of weight. ........ not cheap but worth it.

FYI Lithiumax specialise in car racing batteries - so they know their stuff.

Chris

billfisher
18-06-2022, 12:47 PM
I see I started this thread in August 2018 & had my pair of Fusion 100amp LiFePO$ in the boat at the beginning of September 2018. Those batteries ran my 24 volt Minn Kota for 3 years before I went to 125amp Enerdrives last year. :) That extra capacity made a difference .


One of the Fusions ended up in my utes Canopy running my Evakool fridge drawer 24/7 (10 months - so far so good) & the other in a battery box for camping .

It's certainly been a positive (no pun intended) experience - but that comes from knowing you have spent the coin on good quality batteries - Those Fusions were up the pointy end of the boat & have been subjected to a fair bit of pounding with no issues .

The Enerdrives are going as expected .

Last year I decided to replace the 2 x Calcium (Atlas) batteries that were running my boat . Now I have a dedicated LifePO4 Lithiumax Restart 10 (1000cca / 40amp cycling) cranking battery matched to a + a Electribank ESS 70amp LiFePO4 - so combined I have 100amp (usable)cycling which is equivalent to 200amp AGM . These are running really well & I've saved about 40kgs of weight. ........ not cheap but worth it.

FYI Lithiumax specialise in car racing batteries - so they know their stuff.

Chris

But aren't lithium ion batteries bad for Minn Kota's and electric trolling motors in general and warned against use by the manufacturers?

stevej
18-06-2022, 02:29 PM
Yes and no
google has all the answers

https://www.bla.com.au/marketing/bla-batery-manuals/MPS_Batteries_Manual_2020.pdf

anything brushed needs to be not run at full power for sustained periods

all the high end brushless units like Garmin and Lowrance make are no issue

Dignity
18-06-2022, 03:46 PM
Yes and no
google has all the answers

https://www.bla.com.au/marketing/bla-batery-manuals/MPS_Batteries_Manual_2020.pdf

anything brushed needs to be not run at full power for sustained periods

all the high end brushless units like Garmin and Lowrance make are no issue

When I get mine I had thought of putting a step down transformer in line so that it only ever gets 12Volts as it is an old 2013 Riptide and I'm not up for a new leccy yet. Probably overthinking it but there are times where the tide is running fairly hard and it often sits at 6 speed trying to move forward for long periods.

gazza2006au
18-06-2022, 03:57 PM
There is a seller on ebay who sells see thru lifepo4 batteries so u can see what your buying

stevej
18-06-2022, 05:01 PM
You don’t know what the cells are made from so a pointless marketing gimmick to fool the gullible
Buy a battery thats be reviewed and dismantled by a independent reviewer

NAGG
18-06-2022, 05:55 PM
But aren't lithium ion batteries bad for Minn Kota's and electric trolling motors in general and warned against use by the manufacturers?

All the sudden it's not a problem to run a MK off a Lithium battery ...... go figure . They do say that you shouldn't run a MK flat out (100%) for extended periods ... which I dont

I actually got the heads up from a MK & MG retailer / authorised repairer nearly 5 years ago ..... He showed me his river boat which was running LiFePO4 for a couple of years with no issues - when I picked up the battery I was amazed at the weight . It took me another year before I bit the bullet - still cautious but nearly 4 years later , no issues at all - I will have my MK serviced in the next few months & it will be interested to see what the armature looks like.

Chris

NAGG
18-06-2022, 05:59 PM
When I get mine I had thought of putting a step down transformer in line so that it only ever gets 12Volts as it is an old 2013 Riptide and I'm not up for a new leccy yet. Probably overthinking it but there are times where the tide is running fairly hard and it often sits at 6 speed trying to move forward for long periods.

80% + is what is considered high from what I was told ..... I think you would be fine

Chris

Out-Station
18-06-2022, 06:12 PM
My experience with lithium is only good. I killed a 230ah agm (victron super cycle). Took the opportunity to convert to a 220ah lithium invicta (bloody expensive) which i run my entire house side on including fridge, lights full stack of all all the usual offshore goodies. My rig being a twin rig i run 2 start batteries (optimas) and they both feed the big lithium through 2 DC/DC's (vicron 18 amps ones). Also hace 220W solar on the roof through a dedicated solar controller (those little vicron dc's not dual input). Anyway, long story short, a few sparky dude's tried to convince me to run the fridge on a seperate battery but for simplicity i kept it to 3 battery's. Got to say 18 months on i'm a total lithium convert. I lost about 35kg's in the conversion and the big lithium just takes charge as fast as you can punch it in there, so efficient for marine application i recon. Even with the freezer running 24/7 when i'm on holidays i dont often see it under 70%. I have to make a concerted effort to run it down once in a while. I know i'll never go back to AGM for the deep cycle application. Note that some of the more expensive lithiums have the connectivity to the phone. Deffinatley worth something in my book, i can monitor the lithium as well as the 2 dc/dc on the mobile really well which is usefull on thos 2 or 3 day trips or when your parked up at the holiday house witing for the weathert to come good but have the freezer running in the boat.
Scott

NAGG
18-06-2022, 06:19 PM
There is a seller on ebay who sells see thru lifepo4 batteries so u can see what your buying

Were they the Enercore batteries ?

I know someone who was trying to get one but no stock

Chris

gazza2006au
18-06-2022, 07:36 PM
When I get mine I had thought of putting a step down transformer in line so that it only ever gets 12Volts as it is an old 2013 Riptide and I'm not up for a new leccy yet. Probably overthinking it but there are times where the tide is running fairly hard and it often sits at 6 speed trying to move forward for long periods.

Digs there are 60amp step down transformers on ebay but theres a catch it can only convert 24v to 12v not say 14v to 12v

Also look at the specs although it says 12v the output is 13.8v which is just like a lifepo4 battery

Dignity
19-06-2022, 08:19 AM
Digs there are 60amp step down transformers on ebay but theres a catch it can only convert 24v to 12v not say 14v to 12v

Also look at the specs although it says 12v the output is 13.8v which is just like a lifepo4 battery

A previous one I had was a consistent 12.4V output, the cheap ones on fleabay are not vey consistent on their output and are sometimes very specific on input voltage whereby they will cut out at 13.8v.

disorderly
21-06-2022, 09:59 AM
Theres a lot of cheap lithium out there do your home work as Nagg has said its a roll f the dice theres a lot of dodggy claim out there,it only when you get it and see what you draw out of it and what you put back in do you know weither its a good battery or not and that you got the amps you have paid for.

Yep its good advice there....it seems to be a real gamble with ebay batteries..most of the "brands" on ebay when I was looking 3 years ago cannot be found anymore..Solarking is about the only ebay brand I see on there now that has endured over that last 3 years..

Some shysters just land a container or part there of worth of batteries of dubious origin, chuck a sticker on them and flog them on ebay or wherever ..

So unless there is a proven track record or they are backed by a proper shopfront then you really dont know what you are buying or whether you will have any recourse if they dont turn out as described....

This fella did a test on his "Mobi" brand 100 Ah batteries and found they only held about 50% of the stated capacity..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOs3UUyHVII

NAGG
21-06-2022, 10:48 AM
Yes - I'll say it till the cows come home ..... "Buyer Beware" when it comes to Lithium batteries (LiFePO4)

you've got to ask yourself how do you come up with a high tech battery for 30-50% of the cost of the reputable brands ?

When you see the internals of a well made battery you can see where the money goes - the connections , the insulation , the BMS , the wiring , how everything fits together , temperature sensors .... & new class A cells . ...... & yes you pay for the privilege ::)

Prices are coming down - today you pay $300 less for a 100amp Fusion than 4 years ago .

You really need to do your homework on this stuff -

Chris

NAGG
19-04-2023, 07:44 AM
Well , I ended up biting the bullet & ordered a pair of 100amp Fusion LiFePO4s which should be here in the next couple of days .
These will replace a pair of 100amp GELs which were running the 80lb Minn kota - saving me 24kgs .... more importantly the weight is coming off the bow end of the Barcrusher which had a bit of a bow down attitude when at rest.

I ended up choosing the Fusion brand - as they are reputable & have been making Lithiums for quite a few years now ..... Yes they are more expensive but there are too many unknowns with many of the other options out there.

We'll see how they go

Chris

Hi All

I thought I would give this old post a bit of a bump

Fast approaching 5 years now (Oct 2018) these Fusion batteries have been faultless .
Back in the day when I was looking at the technology these were clearly the right choice.

Initially these batteries were used to run my 80lb Minn Kota on the Bar Crusher - before I upgraded & replaced them with125 amp Enerdrive LiFePO$$ .
But that wasn't the end of it - 1 Fusion went into my car canopy & has been used 24/7 for nearly 3 years . The other is the camping battery & now house battery for my Hornet . So they are continuing their life & in full use.

Cant fault them .

OK there is something to be mindful of Lithium batteries - From my experiences . If a battery shuts down you wont be able to get it up & running again with a DCDC or connected to an alternator. You have to put them on a smart charger to literally jump start them . That means if you are in the wilderness or out on the boat without 240 volts & a proper charger - you are dead. I've found this with both Fusion & Enerdrive batteries.

Fortunately - some manufacturers have a restart button - which wakes up the battery & allows it to take a charge again .... I have a Lithiumax & an Enerdrive with this feature - It works. Just a heads up when choosing a battery.

Chris

tunaticer
19-04-2023, 10:00 AM
Did you upgrade your cranking battery to Lithium Chris?
If so what did you get?

NAGG
19-04-2023, 01:01 PM
Did you upgrade your cranking battery to Lithium Chris?
If so what did you get?

The cranker on the Barcrusher is a Lithumax ....... great little battery .

Chris

Lovey80
19-04-2023, 01:55 PM
Nagg have you tried using one of the little lithium jump starters to wake up your battery?

NAGG
19-04-2023, 04:48 PM
Nagg have you tried using one of the little lithium jump starters to wake up your battery?

No - not yet ....... I recently bought a Gooloo for exactly that situation

Chris

Lovey80
19-04-2023, 06:10 PM
Probably good to run down the batteries and test at home to see if it works.

NAGG
19-04-2023, 06:34 PM
Probably good to run down the batteries and test at home to see if it works.

yeh - just need to do exactly that

Admittedly - 've only been in that situation 3 times

chris