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View Full Version : Help with Zuk 175 intermittent loss of power to starter and electric trim.



jackamundi
13-06-2018, 06:20 AM
I have a 2008 @ 330hrs Zuk 175 that played up a bit last weekend. Running fine but when trying to start on two occasions nothing. Batts are new. Could hear clicking at the motor and trim was also not working. All other electrics radio instruments etc OK. We took cowl off and there was a little plug on rhs at transom side of motor that appeared half out. Pushed it in and motor started. Had same prob later on again but couldn't find anything...then.just seemed to work OK. I am thinking either ignition/safety switch (but not sure if this would also affect trim too) or an earth/solenoid or something else on the motor end. Have you any ideas? Just trying to work out what to look at. Thanks in advance for any ideas.

PixieAU
13-06-2018, 06:53 AM
Had exact same problem with my 2014 Zuk a month ago. Two charged batteries, tic tic noise when trying to start, trim motor struggling, other electrics okay. Never had a problem before that.

My mechanic tested batteries cleaned all terminals, battery selector switch, earth lead, changed battery terminal connectors from wing nuts to direct to post.

Some connections had small amounts of corrosion but all clean now. No problems on last two trips.

Mechanic seemed to think alot of these types of problems come down to poor connections so I'd suggest checking there first.

Noelm
13-06-2018, 07:31 AM
The starter just clicking is usually either bad connections, or faulty cables, both positive and negative, or a failing starter, the starter is probably least likely.

Watto79
13-06-2018, 11:42 AM
My vote is loose connection as well, check everything but if batteries are new check everything is tight down there..

Similar problem not that long ago and turned out to be a wing nut a little loose, tighten up then after a bit of running around would work its way just enough to cause said issue.

Just cranked it up good and proper and all is well!

Noelm
13-06-2018, 12:27 PM
And just to be clear, remove cables and clean them, plenty have been caught out by connections that "look" clean.

gazza2006au
13-06-2018, 04:08 PM
Why on earth would someone wire up a late model motor to wing nuts? that's crazy they should only be used for accessories, the main terminals should be used for starting the engine

its abit like my mates boat the last owner had someone install a isolator switch they wired the earth strait to the alloy hull wnfi what the hell they were doing they bought down a 28k boat to 14k with electrolysis

Watto79
13-06-2018, 04:27 PM
Why on earth would someone wire up a late model motor to wing nuts? that's crazy they should only be used for accessories, the main terminals should be used for starting the engine

its abit like my mates boat the last owner had someone install a isolator switch they wired the earth strait to the alloy hull wnfi what the hell they were doing they bought down a 28k boat to 14k with electrolysis

Only my accessories were wired to the wing nuts, my issue was the loose connection there was shorting out the rest somehow causing it to lose power when I turned the key and just get a click!

My own fault but as I was the one who bought the new batteries and did the swap, so can't blame anyone but myself unfortunately!

gazza2006au
13-06-2018, 05:07 PM
Only my accessories were wired to the wing nuts, my issue was the loose connection there was shorting out the rest somehow causing it to lose power when I turned the key and just get a click!

My own fault but as I was the one who bought the new batteries and did the swap, so can't blame anyone but myself unfortunately!

Ahh bugger we learn from what we do wrong mate so next time you'll know :)

billfisher
13-06-2018, 05:20 PM
Why on earth would someone wire up a late model motor to wing nuts? that's crazy they should only be used for accessories, the main terminals should be used for starting the engine



What's wrong with using nylock nuts instead of wing nuts, ie is it really necessary to use the main terminals?

scottar
13-06-2018, 06:27 PM
With Suzuki you have positive, negative and the infamous "white" wire that has been a source of annoyance for many. The one I rigged had a fuse holder in it that if was poorly positioned and subject to water / corrosion could also be an issue. Check these for a start. Have also had a client/mate with one that wouldn't start courtesy of a "start in gear protection switch " failure - wasn't intermittent though. Suzuki have more connections in their loom than enough - check them all as well.

BigE
13-06-2018, 06:41 PM
Sounds like wing nutz and poor install to me , ok for old school motors but on the newer motors and electronic's pure clean power is an absolute minimum requirement to satisfactory functioning.

When I was running and optimax i was amazed at the difference a decent installation make to that motor.

BigE

joffo81
13-06-2018, 07:03 PM
We had the same problem recently and took us a while to find. Intermittent trimming and failure to start a couple of times. Same motor, similar hours. We replaced batteries and thoroughly checked ignition and trim switches and neutral position switches. Eventually, we found a loose connection on the motor end of the infamous white wire. After tightening, we have had no more symptoms.

jackamundi
13-06-2018, 07:33 PM
Thank you for the many replies with similar experiences, fixes and past learnings. Will take the time to check battery connections (clean and then tighten) and then the engine end invluding the 'white wire'. Thank you all who contributed. Will add some feedback if I find something obvious.

hungry6
13-06-2018, 08:45 PM
With Suzuki you have positive, negative and the infamous "white" wire that has been a source of annoyance for many. The one I rigged had a fuse holder in it that if was poorly positioned and subject to water / corrosion could also be an issue. Check these for a start. Have also had a client/mate with one that wouldn't start courtesy of a "start in gear protection switch " failure - wasn't intermittent though. Suzuki have more connections in their loom than enough - check them all as well.

Someone give this man a beer...
This is the exact cause of all the grieviance above. It is a known issue with Suzuki power fuse holder " white wire "
It's the way it's crimp from the factory, where the isulation is caught under the join, which get abit of corrosions and drop power and trim, even with 2 full charge batteries

gazza2006au
13-06-2018, 09:56 PM
The wing nut terminals are only used for accessories as mentioned, u should not use nylock nuts on any electrical terminal as it can heat up and melt the nylon but who mentioned the nylon?

billfisher
14-06-2018, 10:44 AM
The wing nut terminals are only used for accessories as mentioned, u should not use nylock nuts on any electrical terminal as it can heat up and melt the nylon but who mentioned the nylon?

Are you sure? The posts and the bolt are all one unit from appearances. Seamaster and Century batteries come supplied with nylocks too.

Fed
14-06-2018, 01:21 PM
I had a scan done once and my nuts got hot.

gazza2006au
14-06-2018, 03:20 PM
When i bought a seamaster last it came with wing nuts non locking type, they do make metal and nylon locking nuts

billfisher
14-06-2018, 03:54 PM
When i bought a seamaster last it came with wing nuts non locking type, they do make metal and nylon locking nuts

Well it's a moot point. In any case there is no sign of the nylon melting on mine. I put Vaseline on the terminals too and there is no sign of that melting either. Also if you attach direct to the post then you have the same problem as the clamps usually come with wing nuts. And like I said the posts and the bolts are all one unit so I don't see why you can't attach the power cables to the bolts.

gazza2006au
14-06-2018, 04:30 PM
Well it's a moot point. In any case there is no sign of the nylon melting on mine. I put Vaseline on the terminals too and there is no sign of that melting either. Also if you attach direct to the post then you have the same problem as the clamps usually come with wing nuts. And like I said the posts and the bolts are all one unit so I don't see why you can't attach the power cables to the bolts.

i was mostly referring to pixie's post mate about his main cables going to the wing nut terminals with thecranking amps of a starter motor u caneasily melt any nylon on the nuts...

swof63
14-06-2018, 06:33 PM
Gazza if you’re getting enough heat on the bolts to melt nylon, you have serious voltage drop and thus very very very big problems - melted nylon would be the least of those. If the heat of the bolt can melt the nylon in the nut I’m guessing the plastic battery case around the bolt/post is also in trouble!!!


Sent from my iPad using Ausfish forums

reelally
14-06-2018, 07:47 PM
I’ll put money on the connections at the white wire. Make sure it goes directly to a clean battery terminal with nyloc nuts.

Tracker
15-06-2018, 09:28 AM
Realally may be right. our 200 zuk had a few hissyfits and it turned out to be a crap fuze in the white wire.replaced with new fuze holder and all good again.

Fed
15-06-2018, 10:35 AM
I doubt the white wire has anything to do with the cranking circuit or the PTT circuit.

gazza2006au
15-06-2018, 12:38 PM
Silly question but i wonder if the OP had the lanyard attached?

Fed
15-06-2018, 01:00 PM
Pulled lanyard won't stop cranking or PTT.

Tracker
15-06-2018, 04:45 PM
on our 200 nothing worked when the white wire stuffed up.

Noelm
16-06-2018, 06:17 AM
The white wire is not quite as simple as it seems, it supplies direct power to the ECU (well, kind of direct) it also supplies power to the control mounted trim switch, but not the engine mounted trim switch (tricky hey) if the white wire fails altogether it's usually a "dead" symptom, but, if it's a dirty connnection, all sorts of strange things can happen, because the ECU gets "scrambled" and doesn't do what it's called on to do, or does things wrong, I think all newer motors don't have the white wire, Suzuki changed the way it works around maybe 2010??

Moonlighter
16-06-2018, 12:25 PM
Read this info on the white wire issue. Most likely your problem lies with this issue. Those who think it doesnt affect cranking or PTT simply dont know Suzukis and are wrong.

http://www.suzukioutboardforum.com/forum/general-discussion/suzuki-outboard-parts-forum/5503-white-wire-power-failure

Tracker
16-06-2018, 12:33 PM
on the older models the fuze was about half way between the battery and the controls(under the bloody floor on ours) i replaced the wire and fuzed near batt pickup.

not saying this is the problem but it really give me the shits till I worked out::)

scottar
16-06-2018, 03:16 PM
The white wire is not quite as simple as it seems, it supplies direct power to the ECU (well, kind of direct) it also supplies power to the control mounted trim switch, but not the engine mounted trim switch (tricky hey) if the white wire fails altogether it's usually a "dead" symptom, but, if it's a dirty connnection, all sorts of strange things can happen, because the ECU gets "scrambled" and doesn't do what it's called on to do, or does things wrong, I think all newer motors don't have the white wire, Suzuki changed the way it works around maybe 2010??

Was still there last year Noel when I did the wiring install on a DF200A.

Noelm
16-06-2018, 03:32 PM
OH, OK, I thought they did away with it sometime ago, maybe some models don't have it now?

gazza2006au
16-06-2018, 05:26 PM
You'd think this white wire would be a recall just think of how many thousands of Suzuki's they sell in the USA and how many people would have bad battery terminals, just the thought would be crazy

hungry6
17-06-2018, 07:19 PM
I have first hand experience with a 2016 140HP white wire issue on the outside edge of the Barwon Bank a few weeks ago.
Gave me power intermitently and doing 12 kays limp from that far out wasn't my idea of a good day out. It's a bloody disgrace from Suzuki that a well publicized issue is still in production today...
The local repairer ripped the wires out and made a new one from scratch. As he have no faith in the factory replacement wires.

scottar
17-06-2018, 08:03 PM
While the design is "flawed" in many eyes for maritime use (mine included), if it is carefully installed so as to keep the fuse holder dry and the battery terminals are not getting wet (which is best practice anyway) it should never give problems. The reality of most boat fitouts unfortunately is that installers pay sweet F.all attention to electrics and the fact that they "don't play well" when it comes to water. Things like rod holders cut into decks directly above battery switches or pumps etc and then not fitted with a cap and drain hose are way too common in all brands from my experience. Is that Suzuki's fault ? Opinions will vary on that one.

Moonlighter
17-06-2018, 08:58 PM
Scottar is right - its not a design defect, its an installation deficiency due to poor work by the installer. And on occasion, due to poor maintenance of battery connections by owners.

Done right, as per the Suzuki installation manual, no problems.