Vintage Inboard Cruisers to Centre Console Conversion [Archive] - Ausfish fishing Australia, Australian Angling Forums

gazza2006au

03-04-2018, 11:55 AM

Some may know i was building a composite boat but for some reason i wont go into details i was taking off the builders group anyhow i won't winge over that but rather more on that boat has taught me a lot of the boat building process and a lot of wealth and knowledge on how to fibreglass and what products to use along with safety gear

i had an idea and found some old boats being flogged on Gumtree for under a couple grand, these are rather bigger boats than i have owned in the past my biggest was a Swift Craft 5.6m half cabin mid 90's model, 140hp Evinrude

these boats i am looking at are in the 20-24 foot mark vintage inboard cruiser models i am thinking one would be a good project over 5 or so years a bit here a bit there, turning one into a centre console the idea would be to take more mates out on a single trip and have the extra room to move about and possible sleep on the floor doing over nighters

these boats i will show pictures of are likely past gone with rotted transom,stringers and floor + the CC modification would be a big job

what's everyones thought's on restoring these old boats? do u think if a good one came by that was not rotted all it would need is the cabin chopped off, new gunnels glassed in and some side bracing possibly from the gunnel to the floor with small pockets? to reinforce once the cabin is removed

any idea where i could find out what something like these weigh? i am only just throwing the idea out there at the moment

ranmar850

03-04-2018, 02:33 PM

They look like a massive job to me. if I were you I'd research all the build threads i could--there have been some on here, and you get a lot on The HullTruth. Reading these has made me realise just how much damn work is in them, and how much you can spend on them. As for getting one that didn't need rotted out floor, stringers, transom etc replaced--you don't really know whats' under the floor until you pull it up. I personally think that you are better off profiting from someone elses' biting off more than they could chew, and buying an unfinished project along the same lines. I've seen them come up on a fairly regular basis if you keep an eye on the classifieds, and they don't sell too quick.

gazza2006au

03-04-2018, 02:46 PM

Yeah i have been looking around and there arn't many project boats especially in these sizes 21-24 footers possibly because its a lot of work or they are highly sort after, i don't mind doing the work i have the spare time just know it wont be a 6 month job its what i want from a boat minus the $45,000 price tag

brett62

03-04-2018, 05:20 PM

gazza2006au if you have the time it can be very rewarding and you will end up with something better than you can buy. You would be starting with a bare hull so you could certainly let your imagination run wild. I would work on having to replace transom, stringers and bulkheads anyway as anything old would be in need of some TLC.

If water has gotten between glass layers you will have a large amount of repairing and you won't know this until you are in there. I would work out the cost and then double it.

ranmar850 is spot on with looking for something already underway. People often start these projects and never get to the end for many different reasons.

The five year plan is about right for something like you are going to do. Trying to balance work, family and having a life does drag out these types of under takings. I have been working on my project for 3 years and also trying to finish a house off at the same time. I dare not finish the boat before the house or I will be in some trouble.;)

chocolatemoose

03-04-2018, 06:12 PM

dam had i known i would of shown you this 22ft ....."kinda bertram kidna savage" hull that has been mostly restored glass wise .oh ill spare the details but it was 9 grand. one of my customers snapped it up.

It had appeared on FB on one of the many boat buy sell swap pages. from time to time gumtree can turn up gems. but yeah glass boats is tricky,

I think a whittley cruisemaster 700 should be a good project boat...................oh hang about.

brett62

03-04-2018, 06:34 PM

gazza2006au

03-04-2018, 06:47 PM

I think those cruisers have the hull i am looking for as a offshore dry boat the nice deep hull plus the decent length it would make a great CC

about 10-11 years ago i had a 17 footer glass boat it was a unusual side steer slash bow rider type boat, it had rotted transom, stringers and floor i seeked advice and i guess i went about it the wrong way i had lifted the complete top shell off the hull this is where i screwed up i should have just removed a cap over the transom, i think gutted and prepped the entire hull but had problems marking and cutting up the new transom just rookie errors throughout the process, back than i had next to zero fiberglass experience other than patching one hull

thinking about all that hard work i done down to a bare skin and all the hard work was completed, i still think back about it today i passed it up but i wish i had finished it but i lacked the fibreglassing knowledge

since than i have gained and worked with a bit of expensive glass double bi axle or double bias cloth i think if i go with one of these cruiser conversions to a CC i have enough know how to complete it now so i think i would like to try it again

if the stringers and transom are rotted i think i would opt for the seacast just for general user friendly pour and cap process

maybe something will pop up over winter ;)

gazza2006au

03-04-2018, 09:51 PM

What a bargain free 6.5m boat now that would make a nice CC but i have no way of getting it home, How would u guys do it? its 2.5 hours drive by car or a mission by water plus need to go thru Swansea bar to tow it home by water

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/bonnells-bay/motorboats-powerboats/project-boat-mooring-minder/1178148722

it would need a full tit to toe restore but dang 22 footer for free and it still floats if i can't snap it up hopefully someone else can

ben475

03-04-2018, 10:03 PM

How about build a new hull from scratch?

Search the net for bowdidge marine.
I saw a fella on another forum build one a few years back.

ranmar850

04-04-2018, 08:10 AM

Wasn't there an unfinished Caribbean Crusader (23ft) project on here for ages?Disappeared around last xmas? Can't remember the details, but that is the sort of thing you want if you want a good, big bluewater hull with plenty of space?

DATCOL

04-04-2018, 09:02 AM

Hi Guys 23' Caribbean I sold it Cheers COL

brett62

04-04-2018, 10:36 AM

Hi Guys 23' Caribbean I sold it Cheers COL

Hi Col, have you heard how the new project owner is going ? He certainly got a good deal.

He came around and had a look at my mercruiser and said it had to much HP. Said it was over the manufactures maximum HP.

Personally I would not put anything less than 300 hp in that Caribbean as she is not a lightweight.

Sorry gazza not trying to change the post but Col had a real nice project boat that would have been perfect for you.

gazza2006au

04-04-2018, 04:13 PM

How about build a new hull from scratch?

Search the net for bowdidge marine.
I saw a fella on another forum build one a few years back.
Hey Ben, I started a BM design 4 years ago the Sea Strike 16 i smashed it out for the first 12 months than realised how much time i was spending on the boat than i just went into limp mode i put it on the back burner than just recently wanted to start building it again so i joined the new Bowdidge Marine group it use to be a forum group and today its a facebook group, for some reason i was removed from the facebook group i still don't know the reason and i don't really care if someone can dictate and hold it over my head i have no motivation to complete one of their designs just lucky i only got to this stage before i was kicked off the group rather than 99% complete than the owner says your not getting a builders plate

i have chosen to go the restore build from here on that way no one can dictate weather i get formal verification of a build for registration so it doesn't balance on a pin head of one persons personal preference

i still have the plans but without a builders plate at the end of the build i am up a creek without a paddle on registration the boat is entirely useless there for it won't be completed

this is the SS16 as it awaits to be destroyed i am going to cut it up and skip bin the lot.

ben475

04-04-2018, 04:23 PM

Hey Ben, I started a BM design 4 years ago the Sea Strike 16 i smashed it out for the first 12 months than realised how much time i was spending on the boat than i just went into limp mode i put it on the back burner than just recently wanted to start building it again so i joined the new Bowdidge Marine group it use to be a forum group and today its a facebook group, for some reason i was removed from the facebook group i still don't know the reason and i don't really care if someone can dictate and hold it over my head i have no motivation to complete one of their designs just lucky i only got to this stage before i was kicked off the group rather than 99% complete than the owner says your not getting a builders plate

i have chosen to go the restore build from here on that way no one can dictate weather i get formal verification of a build for registration so it doesn't balance on a pin head of one persons personal preference

i still have the plans but without a builders plate at the end of the build i am up a creek without a paddle on registration the boat is entirely useless there for it won't be completed

this is the SS16 as it awaits to be destroyed i am going to cut it up and skip bin the lot.Ah spewin. That sucks.

I just thought it might be cleaner and simpler to start fresh than to restore something u may never really get to the bottom of. At least everything would be new and you know exactly what you have done with it.

gazza2006au

04-04-2018, 04:59 PM

Ah spewin. That sucks.

I just thought it might be cleaner and simpler to start fresh than to restore something u may never really get to the bottom of. At least everything would be new and you know exactly what you have done with it.

Yeah i thought the same thing when i started the new boat build but there are unforeseen hurdles in the way, it was good tho i learnt a lot on how to fibreglass and how to approach the process of building or rebuilding a boat so i gained a lot of knowledge while i was building the BMD boat i will be using this at a later date in my next build

scottar

04-04-2018, 06:21 PM

Should just be able to do your own builders plate as a home builder. Sure it won't have BM's name on it but there are plenty of homemade ally rigs kicking around - can't see why this would be any different

gazza2006au

04-04-2018, 10:14 PM

Going to check out a boat tomorrow, 18 footer not quiet the 22-24 foot i wanted but it looks ok so far will see how it pans out

DATCOL

04-04-2018, 11:41 PM

Hi Brett The guy that bought the Caribbean has ask me to keep it in my shed until he gets his shed built paying me storage, He is going to put a new V6 complete Volvo Dash to prop unit in it

gazza2006au

05-04-2018, 08:09 PM

Went and looked at the boat mentioned today upon inspection someone has already ripped up the floor in the bow section and it was rotted so good to say the boat was rooted from front to back, had it been the initial 18ft as mentioned i probably would have bought it home but it looked small probably 14ft 15ft max

still trying to look for a bigger 21ft+ boat anyone know where to look? there are some on gumtree but they don't come with a trailer

05-04-2018, 08:30 PM

I've just finished the transom in a 16ft Cruise Craft. It took me six months of spare time in between life with a young family and two parents that work full time. It was a means to an end to get back on the water. Price wise it was worth doing myself rather than paying someone. Timewise it was a long period of missed boating and sweating in the shed with less than impressed wife and kids. Be honest with yourself, your abilities and your aspirations!

gazza2006au

08-04-2018, 04:25 PM

CT if I found a cruiser I was allowing 5 years but not limited to for the rebuild and conversion, I had another boat to use while a main project went underway otherwise 5 years without getting sea legs I would be lost

I still want to find a cruiser I live near some city/rural areas so I may go for a drive way day and check out what people have rotting away on there farms

stevej

10-04-2018, 03:42 AM

these boats are going to be over 2 tonne finished
there's 8-10 k just for a trailer
going to need 150hp plus for a outboard
still going to be a 30-40k rebuild cost

gazza2006au

10-04-2018, 04:35 PM

gazza2006au

10-04-2018, 04:36 PM

24ft and 26ft either would make a nice big ocean going centre console

scottar

10-04-2018, 07:31 PM

I have not estimated the cost of the rebuild of a old model glass boat but i don't think its going to cost 40k, some i have looked at come with motors maybe an old donk but still a motor i can use and possible trade later, all labour will be on me and over 5 or so years, they will come with a trailer i don't need anything fancy like a $10,000 aluminium trailer or a Mercury 300hp 2018, by adding new gear to an old boat just increases its resale value but u still have that old boat at the end of the day

Old boats are a funny one. Pick the wrong model, don't quite get the finish right (basically showroom is required these days with the level of fit out being achieved by plenty of home handy persons) or simply over capitalize and you will do your money - not increase the value......I should know. My last tinnie was fitted out to the eyeballs. When it came time to sell it I couldn't even get a phone call until the price dropped to well less than half of what it owed me. At the end of the day it was still a 20 year old boat and as it didn't present as brand new, the sale price reflected that.

$40K for a rebuild - depending on your wanted level of finish I suspect would be pretty easy to clock up those numbers. You're going to want at least a 200Hp motor IMO - second hand $10 - 15K unless you get an old gas guzzler - which will be worthless as a trade or for resale, $1-2K for trailer repairs/ modifications - most of the old vintage trailers won't have the required braking set ups for a 2T plus rig (if they do they will probably cost more to start with, Rewire - $1-3K depending on finish, Electronics $1K for a really basic system - if you want something better $3-5K or more. Pretty much half way there being somewhat conservative and haven't touched on glass work or added an "unforeseen" factor (there is always something that pops up) - and if you are still driving the X-Trail (think that was you Gazza) you will need to upgrade that too. Go in eyes wide open mate.

brett62

10-04-2018, 08:27 PM

gazza it sounds like you have done some homework on the cost of re-building something of that size. Putting the hours aside as you will do the work yourself the cost of the hardware as Scott has touched on can destroy your budget in a heart beat.

Just my figures on what I have spent may give you a shock. I still stand bye what I have said "that you won't get a better boat once you finish" due to all the free labour and also you find you will have it set up just how you want. In my case I am very much going to keep the boat and have no intentions of selling for a couple of reason. First this will be my last large boat and as long as my ass points to the ground no one would ever buy it for what I want. I am actually going to give it to my Son when I am to old or stupid to use it. I think the later has already arrived.

He is what I have spent so far and what I believe I still have too.

Original cost of boat with no trailer $35,000.
Built new trailer myself $ 12,500 (4.2 ton capacity)
New engine/ drive, steering $50,000
Re- wire and new electrics $17,000
New storm curtains and all the other shits and bits like rope, epirb etc $8,000
Fiberglass,nuts and bolts $ 5,000

Total $127,500 :o

Ok if I was to get all that I am doing in a new boat I don't think I would get any change out of $200,000.

Would I do it again - Not on your life. ;) but hell it's good fun.

Looking forward to your post as you get in to it. I just hope you can do it cheaper than my project. Forgot to add the purchase of tow vehicle required and also the shed I built to house this project. I am lucky I have a good wife and she doesn't even fish.

gazza2006au

10-04-2018, 09:04 PM

Thanks for the replies everyone, when i find a boat it will likely be poly so poly resin is cheap and easy to come by as for the glass i have a good supplier just around the corner i last purchased a full 1.2m wide roll of double bias 450g for $270 i see the price is now $600 haha people have caught on, plywood is realitivly cheap

I will do most work over the colder months because of the resin rush

Yeah thats me with the xtrail tow limit is 2 ton i dont mind upgrading to a pajero 2.5t but anything over is 3.5t and cost a bit of moolah just for people to scratch it at the shopping centre

3.5t trailers are also triple axles and a crap load more money so anything 2.5t and under will be ideal, i seen a 26ft harley on google which was just under 3.5t however the ones i have looked at are only dual axle so should be under the limit of 2.5t

gazza2006au

10-04-2018, 09:09 PM

Electronics is not a great deal financially wise no big 12 inch screens here i will be happy with a basic gps/fish finder etc...

Will likely order lighting and electrical products from overseas

A older motor will be ok even the gas guzzlers, you gotta burn gas to make horse power however i'll likely have 4-8 people on board everyone chucks in for fuel

scottar

10-04-2018, 09:10 PM

You can do 3.5 on dual axle Gazza. Mines only a 6 metre rig and it's trailer is 2.8 rated on duals. My BIL's is pretty much right on 3.5 on duals (in Qld at least).

gazza2006au

10-04-2018, 09:15 PM

Ahh i didnt know that Scottar i will have to do some searching

brett62

10-04-2018, 09:35 PM

Ahh i didnt know that Scottar i will have to do some searching

Dual axle you can do 4.5 ton with no issue. You just need the correct rating of axle, hubs and tyres. My trailer is dual axle and is rated 2.2 tons per axle.

Gazza as you have said you would then need a vehicle with a high tow capacity which is something to keep away from if you don't want to spend the money. If you are converting a good size boat into a CC it should work out ok for you. You could always go a aluminum trailer if weight became a problem.

I was looking at spending $60,000 on my re-power and look where I ended up. I am not the lone ranger either as I found out from some of the other gents on the forum with many of us starting off with just a quick cut and tuck and ending in a full re-build.

gazza2006au

11-04-2018, 03:56 AM

Yeah i dont want to blow the build out of preportion cost wise i dont need anything state of the art or all high end quality other than my labour work

I would like to keep the ex trail it would save another investment but i know i'm limited to the 2 ton towing limit so it would be a fine line seeing as a tandem trailer would weigh 500kg that is a good portion of my max limit

brett62

11-04-2018, 07:00 AM

gazza I don't think you will make it even with a aluminum trailer with a 23 ft fiberglass boat even as a CC and getting it below 2 ton. Certainly something to think about before you choose which project boat to get.

gazza2006au

11-04-2018, 12:27 PM

gazza2006au

11-04-2018, 02:38 PM

I went outside to my 4.5m (15ft) runabout that i just bought and laid down a tape measure next to it i would be quiet happy with a 6m (20ft) boat i didnt actually think 24ft was that long it possibly wouldnt fit in my drive way

My biggest glass boat was 5.6m (18.5ft) but i can hardly remember it

brett62

11-04-2018, 04:40 PM

What would u suggest Brett 19-20ft boats? i would settle for a 21 footer but i have no idea on how much they weigh it's a hard one to find information online unless someone has set that particular model over to the weigh bridge and noted it on a forum like this

i went down the road today to a guy who usually sells a boat or two on a farm he/she lives on a main road i drove past and seen what looks to be a 19-20 foot half cabin glass boat, no motor, no trailer rolled off onto the grass or possibly tires it was around the side of the property, nice deep hull it would make a great conversion very beamy possibly 2.3m wide

i may go see if they want to sell it

gazza 19-20 ft is getting where you need to be for the weight. Depending on how the boat was built (materials used) a 20 ft could weigh more than you want also. To give you some idea of a 23 ft I had my boat over the weighbridge and BMT came in at 4 ton. The trailer I built is heavy duty and is 1200 kg. So the boat on its own was 2800 kg and that was with no batteries, only 200 liters of fuel in the tank and no water. I also had about 40 kg of motor removed. Just the boat hitting the water without people she will be over 3 ton.

scottar

11-04-2018, 06:49 PM

Yep, I would say that very few genuine 20 foot, offshore style, glass rigs weigh less than 2 tonne on the trailer loaded ready to go. Once they are rebuilt - extra glass added as most do, they may well be even heavier than the day they rolled out of the factory.

gazza2006au

11-04-2018, 08:20 PM

Yeah i hear what your saying, when i towed the new 15 footer home the other day the xtrail done it piss easy felt as if it weighed 750kg however i towed my cousins 17-18 foot fibreglass boat and it was incredibly heavy it was just a basic skinny half cabin but i suspect it were filled with water

I have towed several cars with the xtrail, mitsubishi lancer vrx, two holden barinas, a car trailer carrying the boss hog 17-18 foot glass boat and trailer on top of the car trailer

brett62

12-04-2018, 06:10 AM

gazza you can pull a fair load with most correctly set up tow vehicles and probably far more than your manufactures recommendations. Staying with in the regulations so you have insurance is the tricky part.

gazza2006au

12-04-2018, 10:44 AM

Yeah i guess i have to take a gamble when finding the new project as i doubt the seller would let me swing by the local weigh bridge, there is very little information out there on what older model boats weigh

gazza2006au

12-04-2018, 01:04 PM

This boat really peeks my interest not a cruiser but a sea going half cabin 18 footer if there is no rot something like this is almost converted the cabin is a very basic design with all the gunnel already done for a CC conversion there would be minimal fibreglassing to the gunnels other than adding side horizontal strength floor to gunnels, it is quiet the mission to pick it up tho being in Sydney

front seating area can be glassed into a casting platform plus adding strength to the bow

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/pakenham-upper/motorboats-powerboats/fibreglass-boat/1177369863

would something like this be on or under 2 ton? (converted)

rayken1938

14-04-2018, 09:36 AM

Towing capacity of x trail is 1500kgs
Cheers
Ray

TheRealPoMo

14-04-2018, 04:23 PM

I had 3. They were 2000kg.

Current model probably lower tho.

Actually of the 8 or so lease cars I had over 20 years, the xtrails (all 3) were the only ones that had absolutely no problems.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

rayken1938

14-04-2018, 07:53 PM

Depends on the model and transmission and motor i have t31diesel auto and from memory it is only 1400kg but manual is 1800.
Cheers
Ray

catshark

14-04-2018, 08:12 PM

looking at the trailer id say it has mechanical brakes so it will be 2T or under, removal of the canaopy windscreen will save weight, and your right when you say their is minimal work needed to redo the gunnels, just pop that ugly dated cabin off and wack in a centre console, fresh lick of paint and a TLC here and there and bingo head turner at the ramp... theres a bit off age to the ol girl looking at the shape of the windscreen and the clinker planks and the very flat deadrise. bang on a two banger that some one is looking to get rid off in order to go fourstroke and walla..... im starting to see a lot of these big centre consoles at moment but they are the imported yank jobs big $$$.

catshark

14-04-2018, 08:18 PM

best way to get something like that home is to get a 2 day permit roadworthy, check tyres and bearings and haul that yourself, a semi trailer could pick it up but might cost around $750-1250 hard to say . and use the best diesel 4wd you can get ya hands on .

gazza2006au

15-04-2018, 07:03 PM

My xtrail is manual rated 2000kg towing auto is 1750kg

gazza2006au

15-04-2018, 07:14 PM

I have a couple local boats i am looking at there is a 3rd but its a hull only 6.5m on a single axle trailer which i think is not the proper rig it should be dual axle for that size im thinking old mate wants 3k a bit of cash for what it is

The other two are much cheaper 5.5m boats with that nice ocean going deep hull u can tell by how deep the transoms are they just have a lot of appeal as a ocean going boat

Trying to find one with level gunnels a lot of the older boats have a rise in the rear half of the gunnel that follows along and joins the cabin making it a fair bit more work cutting it out reinforcing than glassing it flat

It sounds easy to just chip the top off do abit of glassing throw in a console but there needs to be a lot more thought put into it being 5m+ boats there going to need alot more above floor bulk heads vertically under the gunnels than ots going to need a very sturdy side pannel pockets the full length i may go from the floor to the gunnel front to back, the beds up front will be trimmed levelthan a thick peice of ply glassed down as a bow casting plat form and to give a lot of rigidness to the bow, the gunnels will be widened for added strength

Ganna be a lot of work but thats why i have allocated 5 years for the build

gazza2006au

16-04-2018, 12:15 PM

Trying to negotiate a price on this boat, looks to be 5.5-5.7 meters hopefully i can seal a deal
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e15/SpeedyAussie/received_1785636074791976_zps0usgcjws.jpeg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/SpeedyAussie/media/received_1785636074791976_zps0usgcjws.jpeg.html)

stevej

16-04-2018, 03:14 PM

ive seen enough friends rebuilds to know what the cost of a rebuild is
it all adds up quickly

gazza2006au

16-04-2018, 03:19 PM

Anyone know the Bertram Caribbean 5.5m hulls enough to comment? I done a search one guy was doing a side console conversion in 2011 but no pictures came up

Sent from my [device_name] using Ausfish mobile app

gazza2006au

16-04-2018, 05:45 PM

This is the boat i dont know what its current state is only that its entirely gutted and rotted, have been told the transom and hull shell is ok im kind of sitting on the fence do i or dont i, its $1000... and its currently a mooring minder

116966116967

Sent from my [device_name] using Ausfish mobile app

gazza2006au

19-04-2018, 11:21 AM

So i inspected the boat fella's and i was impressed with the hull shes a absolute giant around 5.7-5.8m and at lease 2.3-2.4m wide this is a perfect offshore going vessel the hull is very deep actually the boat was tied up on a sand bank at the back of someones property, the stringers are pretty much rotted away someone has either replaced the stringers or done one really cheap job and used 1 layer of chopped strand mat, there is no floor that was rotted and pulled up

there is minimal work to gut the rest of the cabin and seats, the cabin should lift off on this model and from what i could see looks like its just screwed down so i don't think the cabin adds much strength however the two front cabin walls are full cabin height bulkheads so i will put in a deck to the same length as the bulkheads for structure

going to pick it up this weekend, i could not find anything that came anywhere near the size of this boat

gazza2006au

22-04-2018, 04:00 PM

Maybe I'm talking to my self here? i get that feeling, anyhow here is an update my cousin came over jumped in and started banging, smashing, ripping and tearing it apart with very minimal damage to the hull

i was suprised this old girl had 5mm thick glass windows, the 4 sliding side windows were perspex, the cabin plus the perspex upper windscreen weighed at lease 150kg the glass alone weight a bit

i am now seeing its a huge job glad i gave my self a unlimited time all though i would like it done sooner rather than later i just need to find the motivation

here is how it sits now, all the left over rubbish is still inside the hull i plan on cutting it up and throwing it in a bunnings skip bin along with the other boat that i am cutting up right now

transom is first on the list to be removed and repaired, i looked up my options of doing a seacast transom but it was going to be to costly i need 15gallons just for the transom, i than looked up Coosa Board but seeing the USA price tag of $400 for 1x 25mm sheet our Aussie Dealer will want a mint for the Coosa Boards soi am only left with a plywood reinforced boat option

TheRealPoMo

22-04-2018, 06:29 PM

I'm listening Gazza and I'm sure others are. You go girl.
If nothing else you'll have a diary of the project and maybe help someone else out later on.
Keep it coming.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

gazza2006au

22-04-2018, 06:38 PM

I was actually going to add depth to the gunnels but i think if i reinforce lengthwise from the floor up i may be able to getaway with it seeing as the stringers add strength low down in the hull, the long horizontal pocket and casting deck all tied together should add mid strength and the gunnels should add upper strength that is my theory

gazza2006au

22-04-2018, 06:40 PM

You go girl.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Right on sister!!

catshark

22-04-2018, 07:30 PM

looks like your gettin into it, whats the boat model? savage surveyor perhaps.

gazza2006au

22-04-2018, 07:39 PM

looks like your gettin into it, whats the boat model? savage surveyor perhaps.

Hey mate i believe its a Bertram made model called Caribbean next to no information out there on this model she is 18ft or 5.5m, there is a wealth of information on her Caribbean sister the 23.5ft model, so far i have only came across 2 other boats like it on Gumtree

It does havea sticker on the front gunnel saying "Baron" i googled Caribbean Baron but a different later model came up

Noelm

22-04-2018, 07:59 PM

The cabin does look very Bertram like, but I don't remember a Bertram/Caribbean that looks like that hull, maybe member BM might see this, he is a bit of a Bertram man.

catshark

22-04-2018, 08:05 PM

what kinda size donk will the old girl need on the back ? , looks good anyhow now without the old cabin, already looking modern and sleek, like those good ol american boats

gunna

22-04-2018, 08:14 PM

Plenty of us listening. Keep talking.

gazza2006au

22-04-2018, 09:09 PM

Noel that's what i thought too the hull and whole low cabin look to it looks like a Bertram model i got the Bertram idea from a guy on Gumtree who is calling his a Bertram/Caribbean, mine did have a couple badges saying "Caribbean" my cousin carefully removed one and took it home he mentioned i should put it on the front of the bow haha

catshark, i can't afford anything fancy or exy so will likely be a old trustworthy Yamaha probably 100hp+ maybe an old 130hp that is the plan i like those old Yamaha's, one of these boats are for sale on Gumtree with a 225hp Mariner on it

gunna thanks mate knew someone was out there :)

gazza2006au

23-04-2018, 11:52 AM

Doing some planning for the future as i am broke at the moment don't ya love living in a big city, looking to rape my existing trailer since it needs a burial the frames are rotted thru big holes and big splits in the frame my miss fortune, looking to salvage the axles, wheels, tyres, hubs and whatever else

i have been in contact with both a steel and aluminium welder

steel trailer, steel, labour welding the steel, galvanising will cost $2000

aluminium trailer, labour welding the aluminium, nuts and bolts as a secondary security will cost $2000

both of the steel and aluminum welders are the most costly bit of going a new trailer, labour for steel welder is $950, labour for aluminium welder is $1000

i am thinking the trailer is going to be the biggest cost in this project however that won't stop me as this is my dream boat i have wanted a boat of this size for a very long time

one other thing i am contemplating is raising the transom as a full height transom while im replacing the plywood than running a home made fibreglass pod not a full flotation pod justa mini one this should allow me to install a live bait tank on top of the splash well

any how its just idea's at the moment :), hopping to have the boat cleared out in a day or two after this i can get some clear pictures of inside the boat and what's going on next

brett62

23-04-2018, 01:55 PM

Let the games begin.

Good on you

gazza2006au

23-04-2018, 02:24 PM

This is what i would like the boat to end up being, good thing about building your own boat is you can build whatever your imagination can imagine.

TheRealPoMo

23-04-2018, 06:16 PM

I don't know nearly as much as some of the folks on here but if I were to get another boat, it would be on an aluminum trailer. My boat gave me no trouble and little expense but the painted steel trailer had no business being in saltwater. Yeah - rinsed religiously, Lanoteced and Killrusted when needed...it still disintegrated before my eyes. Just my 2 cents.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

catshark

23-04-2018, 06:29 PM

look forward to the progress reports. just wondering though you mention you might install a non full floatation pod...im thinking you might risk drowning the head as you attempt to get up on plane do to the extra length, with the trailer builds i reckon the qoutes were quite good in pricing, and a good old trusty yamaha sounds like just the thing, should be able to pick up a bargain somewhere.

gazza2006au

23-04-2018, 09:06 PM

Removed the transom caps and alloy motor plate check out the rot in the video below i think i counted 24 holes in the transom that is without the steps, transducer and speedo meter

TheRealPoMo, Yeah i really want a alloy trailer i just need to save hard for it, it comes down to affordability steel vs alloy both being the same price im all for the alloy

catshark, i was thinking about the pod but couldn't comprehend how a sealed pod works as there are bolts going thru the pod i don't really want to fill it with foam in case the motor dies and needs to be changed, i could slightly change the bottom of the pod so it acts like a hydrofoil but thanit gets finicky as my keep is U shape rather than V shaped however it is a big boat and may dig its ass end in deep i just dont know yet, something else i could consider are trim tabs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPlxQzpoR-k

gazza2006au

24-04-2018, 11:13 AM

I really want the pod to work however i measured my transom today and its only 25mm plywood/transom which looks to be 5-6mm/layers of glass each side of the transom, i am going to take the approach of doing the transom from the outside, anyone have advice on reusing the transom skin? mine is cracked has exactly 50 holes drilled thru it which is bloody insane i think it may be more work trying to salvage my skin than just making a new one also how do i go about my BIN its on the top right of the transom it says do not remove i need to remove it to do my transom i have no way of transporting the boat to a boat coder to have it removed

are there any experts on here or people how know a bit about polyester resin? I'm looking at using the new ISO Polyester Resin which is meant for marine use s it supposedly has good water repelling capabilities just wondering how it works with double bias cloth?

also looking for advice on the double bias cloth, my boat has the stringer with chopped strand mate covering them i am replacing it with double bias cloth for ultimate strength but say if i went 2 layers of 400-450 gram DB cloth or could i just use 1 layer of 800gram DB cloth? would it provide the same strength?

stevej

24-04-2018, 12:13 PM

Get a alloy stepped pod made boat pimpers make decent ones

going to need a 200l tank if fitting a two stroke

My 90 Johnson on a 530 cruscraft used 70-100l going to the dad’s off Sydney

gazza2006au

24-04-2018, 02:31 PM

started pricing the plywood, cloth and resin, poly comes in at 1/3rd the price of epoxy but i am getting mixed reviews about the resins some say poly on poly will delaminate after 2-3 years and epoxy will stick anything for donkey's years

need for the build

5 sheets of 25mm ply (transom/stringers)
6 sheets of 12mm ply (floor + upper and lower front deck, bulk heads)
100sq/m of cloth (still looking into the best most robust option)
100kg's of resin or more
glue and fairing powders

cost about $3000 or less

Get a alloy stepped pod made boat pimpers make decent ones

going to need a 200l tank if fitting a two stroke

My 90 Johnson on a 530 cruscraft used 70-100l going to the dad’s off Sydney

Hey Steve i was planning on going with a completely sealed floor filled with foam than glassed down, was thinking of placing 2x 45 litre plastic tanks under the splash well for portability, I'd like to do quiet a few runs to the closes fad's first before i mission beyond not a very big ocean going person just yet i venture out around 5km's with mates on good days and early mornings that is why i wanted a big boat for safety i think i would much rather run up and down a long the coast line in search of the pelagic fish than head out to be eatin by a mako or great white lol ;D

stevej

24-04-2018, 05:34 PM

two tonne of boat with a under powered 2 stroke on the back is going to drink fuel, thi sthing will need 175hp +

90kg of fuel down the back along with an outboard hung out on a pod will only make it more bum heavy and likely to dunk the power head
need that fuel weight midship up under the console

gazza2006au

25-04-2018, 11:30 AM

Steve once shes finished and i have some cash to buy a engine i may get the boat inspected by a qualified person and ask there opinion on rated HP as i have no clue i have been a alloy boat guy for many years i am only now getting back into the glass boats

if something like this pops up at the time i will snap it up tho https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Yamaha-200-Hp-Can-Freight-Australia-Wide/123095298607?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

stevej

25-04-2018, 04:15 PM

gazza2006au

25-04-2018, 04:32 PM

Yeah there are options out there to level the boat i will see how i go first with gutting than rebuilding the internals before i start to lose sleep over how she will drive, i remember googling this model boat and i think it was wiki pedia said this boat was rated to 100hp it also only has a 25mm thick plywood transom so they might be right? the skins on the transom are around 5-6mm thick each side that would make the transom 35-37mm thick just seems like a very thin transom for such a big boat

found some really cheap fibreglass mat i was going to buy it's something like DB 1300gm/m2 plus 200grams CSM i have been told its to thick but just if i could use it... whole roll is $160!

forgot to add still waiting to go to the tip to dump all the rubbish, for anyone doing a similar project i got quoted for a 2m3 skip bin $350 where as the local tip said to dispose of the dry waste (fibreglass boat) $320 a ton minimum charge $60 so now there is no need to cut up that roof I'm just going to haul the whole thing to the tip as the tip goes by weight not size of load

Noelm

25-04-2018, 06:48 PM

gazza2006au

25-04-2018, 08:48 PM

Do the transom from the inside, I have seen it done both ways and from the inside is by far the best, especially since you will have it gutted anyway. Fully sealed pods have an inspection plate in the top to access the engine bolts. When I did my boat I got all my supplies from FGI? I think was the place, I will see if I can dig up the name, buying rolls of mat is not that expensive, and resin in drums is not cheap, but OK.

Noel the cloth i need is double bias 400 or 450 gram per square meter that stuff is expensive somewhere around $10 per 1x1.2 meter piece the Americans use the same cloth but with chopped strand mat stitched to the back they call it "1708 with mat" hard to find over here i have so far found one place but u need to buy by the roll i think i would need 3 rolls (they go by weight in kg's) this stuff is about $600 a roll too not cheap, i was looking for alternatives as in using heavy cloth so i could get out of a very labor intense job but i think i am tripping over my feet and i need to do it the right way of a few layers of lighter cloth, there are sellers on ebay which makes it handy to grab some really thick stuff when needed by the meter which i think will help

ISO polyester is around $1400 cheaper than the epoxy

the transom if i were to do it from the inside i would need to remove the back splash well cap there is only so much i can remove before i need to cut into the gunnels and i think the hull would lose all its strength in the ass end of the boat, reason i would need to remove so much splash well is i am a fat bloke so i would need to squeeze inside the cut out area plus need room to work on the transom for tabbing and glassing i could possibly try stand on the outside of the transom and work on it if i could reach the corners (short arms) lol

gazza2006au

26-04-2018, 03:35 PM

Getting a hand tomorrow and doing a few tip runs, cleaned the boat out today and took some pictures, that is a 2 meter ladder and i think 1.8-2 meter antenna i salvaged on the starboard side

I'm impressed this thing cleaned out is an absolute beast it is massive!

gazza2006au

26-04-2018, 03:38 PM

More pictures for those hungry picture viewers

gazza2006au

26-04-2018, 03:40 PM

Have tried to upload more than 5 pictures per post previously and had errors so i will do 5 per post

gazza2006au

26-04-2018, 03:42 PM

Forgot in my last post there is a huge tap going strait thru the hull under the seat that hole will be a worry for me in the future as if it leaks all my hard work will rot again

catshark

26-04-2018, 06:44 PM

whats the tap? perhaps a toilet valve?

scottar

26-04-2018, 06:55 PM

Called a valve Gazza and as mentioned, given it's location was probably for a seawater fed toilet system. Take it out and glass the hole up - won't be an issue if done properly.

Chimo

27-04-2018, 06:25 AM

If there is an inlet there also has to be an outlet for the toilet too.

Perhaps as an alternative to removing both the inlet and outlet you could build in a bait / captive fish holding tank up forward to save having to travel all the way to the stern each time?

gazza2006au

27-04-2018, 12:11 PM

It's a weird one the pick up head is facing towards the back of the boat and i couldn't find any other holes, maybe it was for a vintage deck wash? the valve is inside the cabin below the seat tho there could possibly be a hole in the side of the hull i haven't removed the crpet lining yet i will let u all know what i find

gazza2006au

29-04-2018, 02:54 PM

Removed the transom cap it was one almighty mission a person who previously repaired it put resin all over every nut and bolt that extended thru the transom, i cut most of the cap with a jig saw so it should line back up closely before glassing

someone has #### the transom in two lines as pictured than tried to fill it with resin

got most of the wood out it was like thin paper the bottom and right side were soaking wet

gazza2006au

29-04-2018, 02:57 PM

Noelm

30-04-2018, 05:32 PM

It's a bit hard to make sense of some of the photos, they are kind of too close, but, it looks like there is some work to do, you would be surprised how rough some of the hidden work is when new, I know when I did my cat, some glass work looked like a 5 year old kid had been playing with mat and resin, it was strong enough, but damn rough.

gazza2006au

30-04-2018, 06:16 PM

Sorry Noel the pictures have turned sideways once uploaded, I spent a couple hours today cleaning out the transom and cutting the glass as short as possible i really wanted to grind down all the old glass back to a bare hull but i think it will take a lot of hours to achieve this and i may accidentally go thru the hull or close to it here and there so i don't think i am going to risk it

most of what i have left is chunks of plywood that is stuck deep down in the transom bottom channel and a bit stuck to the transom wall i may need to use a chisel instead of a screw driver

it is hard laborious work hammering away bit by bit i just put in the hours where possible

i cut two of the starboard side stringers back enough to do the transom i will remove them when I'm doing the entire stringer, going to be hard to glass that cap back on the transom i figured i am going to have to glass the splash well back in before i glass in the stringers just so i have enough room to squeeze under there to glass the underside of the splash well

got out the Bosch orbital to tear into some of the plywood stuck to the transom wall since the plywood is wet it just smudged so i went and bought a huge tarp to toss over the boat and hopefully let what wood is left behind dry out for easier removal, going to look on gumtree for a second hand wet and dry vacuum to suck out all the dust

one thing i am happy about the chopped strand mat the old timers used isnt anything like the stuff used today there is no itching at all no skin irritations either

also cannot take any further back pictures mate i have to stand on a milk crate just to take these pictures as the boat's gunnels are up to my shoulders ;D

Noelm

30-04-2018, 06:50 PM

I guess it's not that they are too close, it's just hard to work out exactly what you are looking at in some pictures. Cutting it to bits is the hardest part.

scottar

30-04-2018, 07:02 PM

Might have been easier access if you had cut the top section further forward (a foot or so into the cockpit) and lifted the whole top off. That's how a mate did his Haines. Lot less to repair when you put it back together too.

gazza2006au

30-04-2018, 11:01 PM

Yeah Noel a few cut knuckles that glass is all mighty sharp i'm glad the worse part is almost finished that is cutting the glass skin off the transom in a awkward position holding the grinder, removing the stringers will be easy as

Scott i thought about cutting just in front of the splash well but i really wanted to keep the most structure possible i didnt want any sagging or the gunnels to bow out, its a bit more work this way but i'm pretty sure nothing will move when clamped up or when i walk around inside the boat

Actually kind of getting nervous about glassing the transom in i really dont want to screw it up, previous experience glassing the bmd boat sometimes the resin was going off in 15mins i'm thinking i will need a good 30-35mins working time to get it all right i dont want to rush but know i will

Noelm

01-05-2018, 05:24 AM

I found mixing resin in smaller batches and working sections at a time so the fresh stuff went on before the last one went off was much better, also make sure of quantities, most home handymen put too much hardener just to make sure it goes off, and then it goes off too fast.

gazza2006au

01-05-2018, 07:38 AM

I hear that Noel that is why im mmore inclined to go with epoxy i'm looking at using the West System its a added expensice since its the most costly but i think its better than using polyester as the poly hardener there is a good chance to muck it up

gazza2006au

01-05-2018, 05:35 PM

I've decided the transom outer skin has to be replaced i have been thinking about it a lot and it must go its doing my head in thinking about the 70 odd screw and bolt holes thru it plus the two large bogged cracks from the engines lower mount i think if i keep it all those holes and repairs will play on my mind

Noelm

01-05-2018, 05:43 PM

The holes won't matter because you will have glass inside anyway, it's pretty hard to get a good finish on exterior gel coat, it will need sanding and filling numerous times.

gazza2006au

01-05-2018, 08:18 PM

Yeah i'm taking that option over a possibly leaky transom i agree there will be a few coats and sanding to get it all flat with no defects i would rather do it now than use the old skin and possibly have a screw hole seep water in from any of the 70 holes and sit stagnant and maybe work its way into the ply i really dont want to be replacing the transom in 2-3 years

I havent decided if to do a full respray the top half needs it but the lower half is pretty good just got to match the new transom skin if it looks odd i'll paint it all

I vacuum around the transom today there is still a bit of work to be done and i can see where the original transom wasnt fully mated with the bottom of hull there is a whole strip of glue that was barely touched by the plywood

Decided today i am going to rip the bench seats out next than finish off cutting back the ass end i'll clean it all up and post progress

Finding it difficult to find 25mm exterior ply with the special glue, also the stringers are 20mm, ply comes in 18mm 25mm so untill i actually remove all the stringers i wont know what i have to work with

gazza2006au

03-05-2018, 05:49 PM

Worked on the boat this afternoon no gloves ripped up the front two seats had a shower than went to coles grabbed 2 things than picked up deoderant and started walking to the counter the chick in the express chechout was trying to talk to me i was dazed, walked out of coles and felt like absolute crap like i was going to pass out now have a cracking head not an actual head ache tho feel like the flu but im not sick

Think when u was putting my hands under the seat i may have been bitten by a spider

Noelm

03-05-2018, 06:34 PM

Probably all sorts of spiders hiding in boats, wouldn't surprise me at all. Don't know about the ply, have you tried a specialist place (not Bunnings)? 25mm would be best, or just laminate layers until it's the thickness you want.

scottar

03-05-2018, 07:32 PM

Personally I would laminate. Then even if water gets into one thickness it may not get into all of them. Either that or shell out for one lot of coosa or thermo lite - then it wont matter so much and you can leave the original transom skin there (structurally the best option) and just repair it.

catshark

03-05-2018, 09:52 PM

laminate timber is used for everything these days, agree with Scottar to go that option, in Penrith at Meyer timber ive seen laminates as long and thick and wide as you can imagine.

gazza2006au

04-05-2018, 11:19 AM

Yeah there were absolutely crap loads of spiders in this boat there were still a few walking around yesterday but anyhow i feel so much better today back to normal it was very weird almost collapsed walking out of coles

Coosa board is one option i contacted the AU dealer over a week ago and was told i would get a call back but no call came than i was looking for some fiberglass products and came across some Thermolite on ebay its only 1200x1200 sheet it is the same stuff as Coosa board not cheap about $500

I will go the CB if i can finda price on it and if its available here i will just need to save a penny here and there to buy it

Noel here's better pictures of the transom (top looking down) that is if my pictures don't rotate i have one more tip run shortly than we can all see the blank hull to work with

EDIT: just got off the phone to the thermoliteboard guy he said to use 19mm board and build it up to 25mm i mentioned i have 25mm plywood transom so i would need to build up that 19mm sheet to around 30mm thats 11 layers of cloth sound right to u guys?

08-05-2018, 01:19 PM

It must be an absolute shit job getting up under the gunnel corner and the transom cap someone has just bogged a whole ball of chopped strand mat in a big mess probably hopping for the best, i might save my glass windows and pre wet out my cloth over the glass than layer it up under this location instead of trying to do all that on my back

Don't bother trying to re-glass it from underneath. Just taper back the existing glass in the splashwell and glass up from the top. Did you keep the part of the splash well you cut out? if so, its a piece of piss to glass it back in.

Don't cut the rear transom skin out. As you laminate in the new core plenty of resin will leak out of the old holes. Grind back, taper out and then glass them up. Heaps easier than trying to build and fair a new skin.

I did my transom in Bote Cote epoxy. I found it very easy to work.

Cheers
Craig

gazza2006au

08-05-2018, 01:39 PM

Have been stressing about getting the boat registered before i carry on anymore work,i just went onto the RMS web site and found a mobile boat coder who is happy to carry out the work, cost is $160 to get a hin validation registration is $110 + sticker/numbers the bloke will come to my house and do it in the backyard, the bit i was stressing about was getting the boat in its current condition on that rusty old trailer to a boat coder and back

Don't bother trying to re-glass it from underneath. Just taper back the existing glass in the splashwell and glass up from the top. Did you keep the part of the splash well you cut out? if so, its a piece of piss to glass it back in.

Don't cut the rear transom skin out. As you laminate in the new core plenty of resin will leak out of the old holes. Grind back, taper out and then glass them up. Heaps easier than trying to build and fair a new skin.

I did my transom in Bote Cote epoxy. I found it very easy to work.

Cheers
Craig

Hey Craig, that sounds piss easy i was having some bad thoughts about how i would fit into the tight area under the splash well to glass it and keep it neat as possible

bote cote is one option or a local guy who sells the thermolite also sells epoxy but is 5:1 ratio

i calculated the entire boat will cost around $3000 to build the stringers, floor and transom from thermolite (7sheets) a bit pricey plywood is around $350 what would u go with mate?

i asked about seacast but they charge minimum USD$650 for any size order a one flat delivery fee, there is Arjays and Nida Core but both don't ship to Australia

Noelm

08-05-2018, 02:02 PM

On an old boat, just use ply, done right, it will be heaps better than it was when new, plus you can get it from a hardware store.

08-05-2018, 03:58 PM

I used 12 mm marine ply for about $140 a sheet (1200 x 2400 roughly). A penetrating coat of epoxy then two sealing coats prior to laminating the multiple sheets into place. Then glassed over the whole lot. Compared to how it was built when it left the factory I've got nothing to worry about!

gazza2006au

08-05-2018, 05:36 PM

I really want to use one of the better products like the Seacast as it will gravity feed into all the small voids and fill them however it is almighty expensive, the Coosa board or Thermolite is next best but again it will cost me $3000 alone just for the sheeting i am still umming and arrhing about it

plywood is dirt cheap but i really don't want to be doing all this again in 2-3 years its a massive job, i could dig in soon if i went with plywood however if i went the above composite options i would probably have to wait to save a bit of money

i was going to pick up several sheets of plastic coreflute sheeting and lay out my stringers, my deck, my flooring and everything i want than hot glue tack it together so i can see what the whole design will look and feel like than use the coreflute cutouts as templates to trace out on the plywood

today i removed the rest of the rubbish from the boat, another tip trip but everything is out now

i foresee one probably on the side stringers (not the main center and not the one closes to the chine) there is a deep gully right beside the stringer almost the full stringer length i think i may have problems gluing and glassing this area i will take pictures later or i will draw a diagram of how its laid out

found another one of those fittings on the left side thru the hull

can u guys see what i mean about the transom holes that is only around 50% of the holes u can see in the picture

i will do some basic paint drawings on my pictures of what i would like to do to the boat as in deck and storage spaces

Noelm

08-05-2018, 07:06 PM

Don't worry about using ply and having to do it again soon, done properly it will last forever, plus it's easy to work with, easy to get, and cheap.

gazza2006au

08-05-2018, 07:34 PM

Noel or anyone else can someone tell me how to join the two stringer pieces? when i done the BMD boat both sides of each of the stringer pieces were ground down 1 layer with a 90 degree square joint than glassed, i am looking online and the recommended way is to cut on a angle but get this the angle needs to be cut at 10/1 so for 25mm i need to make a angle cut 250mm long just seems impossible to cut that out of 25mm thick plywood

gazza2006au

08-05-2018, 08:51 PM

This is my layout i am going for that is if you all can read my dodgy sketch basically what i am doing with the deck is recreating the structure the half cabin had in place just on a lower level it will most likely be the same distance back from the nose which was close to half the hull length now if the console looks out of place i will build on top of the casting deck and build it into the deck so it blends in but so it keeps that central position on the overall length so it doesn't look out of wack

in the bow picture there will be the bottom which is the hull than there will be a lower level floor just above the hull skin this is so i can keep my main keel stringer short in height so there will be no flexing or bowing, than there is a upper level which will be the casting deck a fuel tank may go in the middle and like jackets and safety gear in the side storage compartments

the rear of the boat will have bulk heads placed between the stringers i will use several bulk heads as the original bulk heads were just a basic fence paling or 100x22mm piece of wood bridging the stringers across the top only, there will be several bulk heads along the side pockets on both sides above the floor to up under the gunnels i am unsire if i want to go completely sealed and foam filled pockets or if to leave them open for storage

the bilge will be left open in case i take on water over the side or by rain it should all run down into the bilge area where there will be a pump

i think it looks usable and should be strengthened a lot more than the original layout

gazza2006au

09-05-2018, 10:27 PM

I tried looking for this information a few times over the years and have just found it https://www.boaterexam.com/boating-resources/boat-capacity.aspx mine works out 8 people capacity and that corrosponds to the label i removed

It also tells me i need a 125hp outboard motor

gazza2006au

15-05-2018, 12:12 PM

Does anyone know of a good book to read about boat building which shows the laminate thickness scales for boats? as of yet i have nfi how thick to make the laminates on the stringers/bulkheads and the transom

i have sorted my material i am hopefully going with a thermolite transom and honeycomb stringers and bulkheads donno about the floor yet but the honecomb is very cheap about $120 a sheet which i am very happy to pay for a rot free boat

tried to source some double bias cloth from china but no reply as to cost and shipping

Chimo

15-05-2018, 01:43 PM

Here is some light reading for you that might be of a little help. I found it very interesting.

https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-how-s-kerno-memorial-forum/632714-72-20-seacraft-restoration-cc.html

Cheers
Chimo

gazza2006au

15-05-2018, 04:59 PM

Thanks for that link Chimo i see my path going somewhat down the same road as that guy but my gunnel is already built i did take note the poor bugger done the floor and stringers before he started to fillet the edges and joints lucky i already knew this from the BMD design boat i was building, the calking tubes and pre mixed putty would be very handy indeed i have been eyeing off some it is a 2 part epoxy paste so i will need to inquire more into its use

that guy also used corelite for the transom and he mentions its similar to the thermolite board i think that may be the same or similar stuff i was looking at on ebay its half the price of the thermolite board and i can drive 2 hours up the coast to pick it up in full size sheets on the trailer

one thing i didn't read were his laminate layers, what i don't know the stringer laminate if it should be 2mm thick or 12mm thick i most defiantly don't want to under do it however i would like the jump some swell on a light day to hammer back to the ramp there is a bit of hoon in all of us ;D

my stringers only had one layer of chopped strand mat which from my readings CSM is very weak... my transom i have some sort of idea i had two layers of cloth over the entire transom with 5-6mm pieces of cloth laid over the sides and bottom so i will recreate this but beef it up a crap load

Noelm

15-05-2018, 05:35 PM

Most "old" boats only had a single layer of chopped strand over timber stringers, some had two layers along the keel timber, two or three layers done properly over timber would outlast a few owners, some just had cheap maple for timber, some used hardwood, my old Sharkcat had hardwood cross beams and hardwood uprights, with thin ply bulkheads and a Masonite floor nailed down with clouts, and untreated on the underside.

gazza2006au

15-05-2018, 06:09 PM

Thanks Noel that gives me a starting point, i seen on google everyone asking how many layer laminates there was no definite answer people were just being referred to books for the answers

i am still keen as mustard to pick up that roll of nice thick carpet (cloth) i think it could come in handy doing the transom, i could go with a 15mm foam core and work it all the way out with cloth and resin to my original transom thickness it sure as hell would be one solid transom with around 12mm of cloth/glass what do u think guys? this instead of a 25mm plywood core with 2 layers of cloth as it had

Noelm

15-05-2018, 06:56 PM

Not too sure if really thick glass layers would be stronger than thicker timber and a few properly laid layers of glass, but I am just guessing, certainly no expert.

stevej

16-05-2018, 07:36 AM

has anyone mentioned building a cradle yet ?
don't do it just on a trailer hull will ripple when all the supports taken out and impossible to get it back to normal

gazza2006au

16-05-2018, 12:55 PM

I am still deciding on the transom bring it up to gunnel height and run XL shaft pod would look really cool

Not too sure if really thick glass layers would be stronger than thicker timber and a few properly laid layers of glass, but I am just guessing, certainly no expert.

When i was calling around about the thermolite board i called these guys CCA Composite Boards and i mentioned i had 25mm ply transom theguy i spoke with mentioned i should use 19mm thermolite board and build up the laminate to the right thickness it sounded weird because i thought there were some structure in using the plywood but it may very well just be a filler I'm not to sure i need to look into it further, i read a little bit about transoms on big 28 foot boats they run 1/2" laminates on their transoms but that is a much bigger boat than mine

has anyone mentioned building a cradle yet ?
don't do it just on a trailer hull will ripple when all the supports taken out and impossible to get it back to normal

I did have concerns of "hooking the hull" as only half of my trailer bunks are touching the hull i have noway of moving them as the whole trailer is rusted, when i walk around in side the boat it doesn't seem to move unless i am climbing in or out on the front left corner, what kind of cradle would u build? something like a jetski trolley with long bunks? i am open to suggestions before i start glassing

gazza2006au

16-05-2018, 09:39 PM

Just found this https://www.tradeboats.com.au/tradeaboat-news/boat-project/1405/haines-v19r-project-boat-hull-transom-and-workstation read the bit about there swiss cheese transom they'd me impressed with mine haha looks like my whole transome skin is getting cut out also in there video they show there methiod of glassing and that they use chopped strand mat with double bias

They mention two styles of doing the transom but the tricky question is i will be doing both styles at once, a little unsure how to do both inner and outer skin teplacement at the same time

Noelm

17-05-2018, 10:09 AM

You could do the outside first and leave the inner side bare with no bonding, then cut the inside out when ready (maybe) but, I still kind of think in your case it will be heaps easier to go from the inside and repair all the holes on the outside, seeing as you have cut the deck already.

stevej

17-05-2018, 11:13 AM

just thought id bring I tup as a mate di da 445 and had a hump in the underside once he finished
id think 4 bunks would do 2 each side havnt seen your hull shape sorry to offer any more advice

gazza2006au

17-05-2018, 12:46 PM

Noel yeah i think your right just all these holes have me a bit concerned i can fill all the holes with cloth and resin but what i am not sure about is the end finish it would require a lot of sanding, fairing sanding, under coat,sanding filling holes etc.. i did take notice of the video in that last link they said the fairing takes a ton of sanding if i were to cut out the transom skin also i think a lot of my rigidness is still within my transom skin so i am umming and arring about it

i am going to slowly start buying the products needed but a majority of the stuff will be in 8 weeks when i get some decent cash to buy all the exy stuff

i am trying to hold off buying plywood its tempting to just dig in now but i want something that will last avery long time if not the entire boats life

still trying to work out the best way of cleaning those barnicals or crustations off the hull i think i will pick up a pressure washer from bunnings and give that a try today or tomorrow, the hull underside will need a good sanding and some fairing work over at lease 40% of the hull from the crustations chipping the gel coat, since i can't tip her over due to size i will be spending quiet some time under her doing the work

Chimo

17-05-2018, 04:57 PM

Not sure a Karcher is going to get your barnacles off either if the neighbors effort with his boat that was left in the drink for months is any thing to go by.
Might pay to get a commercial guy with the right gear in after you get a lifting device set up for your hull. particularly while it is still a lot lighter than its going be after your finished.

Plus you still need to build a cradle to support the hull before you get stuck into rebuilding the hull insides etc IMHO...............

Have you seen these ideas from THT?

https://www.thehulltruth.com/industry-news/924599-best-way-get-boat-off-trailer-brownell-boat-lifts.html

(https://www.thehulltruth.com/industry-news/924599-best-way-get-boat-off-trailer-brownell-boat-lifts.html)

gazza2006au

17-05-2018, 06:34 PM

That is an idea Chimo i like the second picture i could easily fabricate that bow lift with using a 5000kg lashing strap

After the previous poster menntioned i needed to get her on to a stand i looked into it yesterday and that will be how i approach it, the next step will be making a dolly i have some steel framing already i just need 6 or 8 boat trailer bunk post to weld to the frame than i will bolt some 190×45 treated pine to it and carpet it as the keel bunks

The stage after this will be the internal work after that i will hoist her up and for the barnical removal and fairing than painting

Chimo

17-05-2018, 06:42 PM

Looks like another use for a snatch strap too.

Or you can hire one from Kennards for about $200 a day to lift it and sit it where you want it and spend another $200 to put it on your trailer later.
https://www.kennards.com.au/gantry-aluminium-1t-mobile.html

gazza2006au

17-05-2018, 08:51 PM

I think i'll jack her up with a bit of wood under the jack and build up both back sides with cinder blocks and i will use 2 rows of the same blocks under the front to work the trailer out than i'll slide the dolly under

gazza2006au

18-05-2018, 04:35 PM

What do u guys think a shop would charg to install the transom and stringers? The resin will cost me $400 coosa board for transom will cost another $400 a roll of double bias cloth is going to cost $550

What are some realistic prices? Seeing as i have done all the hard work

Noelm

18-05-2018, 06:48 PM

Not too sure a shop would agree that you have done all the hard work if it isn't done the way they would do it, they will consider it more work! I would reckon it would cost a few grand minimum.

gazza2006au

18-05-2018, 08:39 PM

Noel, a few K for the stringers and transom? i sent one company and one guy on gumtree pictures asking for a quote just on the transom, when i spoke with the professional guy at a factory he asked what will i be running on it i said a 130-150hp it seemed to have raised some concern and he mentioned it will need to be solid in so many words i'm awaiting to hear back on a cost

the average guy i donno he comes out and does the work at my house which i'm a little unsure about insurance wise wouldn't want him trying to sue me for some reason if he got MEKP in his eyes or something like that or a power tool accident

if i can find a professional to do the job for a little more than what all the equipment is going to cost me it might be worthy going that route but if i can't find anyone with a decent price i will do it but being my first job it'll be playing on my mind if i'll loose the motor in the drink or boat snaps in half

stevej

18-05-2018, 09:25 PM

if you really want to have something nagging on your mind ask them what the life span of a fiberglass boat is along with uv degradation of all the components.

as noelm says expect a bill of 3-5k maybe more if you want a fancy splashwell setup

gazza2006au

19-05-2018, 12:02 PM

I don't think i am to worried about the age of the hull Steve since the fibreglass is covered or painted so it should be fine however it did sit for i dont know how long with the floor ripped up an exposed but in saying that my BMD hull was exposed to the sun for several months and i wastold to just give it a coat of resin

gazza2006au

19-05-2018, 02:47 PM

No call back from the professional factory guy and i tried calling the other guy no answer, one was charging $120 an hour labour the other $70

i am just going to try it my self fingers crossed i am going to cut out the back transom skin leaving 75mm all round the edges and i will work around leaving the BIN on the hull i don't want to mess with that, i will cut out and glue in the transom will be using plywood as i just cant wait and save up the extra money for the expensive composite board, i will glass in the out side skin than i will glass in the inside skin hopefully it all pans out i have a plan i just need to make it work

inner and outer transom skins i am thinking should be 100% double bias cloth with no chopped strand mat as a filler just purely for the double bias's strength i don't want to skimp on this, double bias is .45mm thick my transom outer skin is 5-6mm so may require 12 layers of cloth i think this would be the ducks nuts for strength

thinking of cutting the plywood as a XL shaft, do u lot think the motor being raised 5" will look dicky up that 5" in height compared to the rest of the boat? XL pod is still on the board but i am learning about the forces of torque from high powered outboards and i am shitting it at the thought of doing it wrong and having the torque rip the transom, pod and outboard off

there is still the worry of going 100-130hp motors which are 4 cylinders and upping to the 150hp which are 6 cylinders that is quiet a bit more weight on the transom just don't want to screw anything up by misjudging or under engineering it

equipment will be

*Double Bias Cloth 400gsm
*Epoxy Resin 5-1 Ratio 24kg
*25mm Plywood, Okoume 25mm 10 layers Furniture Grade Plywood E1 MR Glue
*Talc as a Glue/Filler 25kg

Cost is about $750 for the above, no fairing included in that i will get that once i am happy with the skins, i should be left with some resin for the stringers hopefully

Noelm

19-05-2018, 04:10 PM

Definitely raise it to suit 25", might make motor shopping a bit more selective, but plenty of XL shafts around in that HP, don't be scared of using ply. Some repairs I have seen done use long bolts as clamps to pull the laminates together, others use home made clamps to get the transom tight with no air bubbles, others just cut the ply, laminate together, then just glass into boat, lots of different methods used, all work, you just need to sort out how you will do it.

gazza2006au

19-05-2018, 06:56 PM

Yeah that's a problem for me Noel to many ways of doing it and i have combined at lease 2 its done now so i need to construct a plan and stick to it, my transom skin is coming off its just to much to repair what i haven't shown is where something in between the outboard and the rotted transom has punched a big hole thru the transom skin than someone has fixed that section with a hell of a lot of glue mix i tried to pick it out and use a screw driver with a hammer its just that thick worked into the crack/holes i need to cut it out, when i do cut out the transom skin i know i will get a good bond skin to plywood because the lamination will be going directly over the plywood

plan of attack will be

*glue along the sides and bottom of hull
*trowel glue over the inside of the transom skin whats left
*place plywood into place
*screw small screws thru the transom skin into the ply
*fillet the inside of transom
*glass and tab the inside of the transom
let it all set

following morning

*remove screws
*fill screw holes
*lay a very tiny glue fillet around the outside of the transom skin and where it meets the ply
*glass the outside to thickness

let set over night

*drill bung hole back fill with resin than redrill

await fairing and sanding

gazza2006au

19-05-2018, 10:27 PM

I just paid for a very decent boat building subscription its called Ship Shape TV there are previews on youtube and vimeo, they showed the full correct way of doing the transom in episode 19 video 26

Noelm

20-05-2018, 05:15 AM

Does the video match your planned method?

gazza2006au

20-05-2018, 01:21 PM

Its probably about a 15mins video but goes for 20-30mins with adds the guy goes right into detail on every aspect he tell's the cloth type the size and what orientation, he explains the whole laminating process and what goes where in order he also explains what layers of fibreglass go in first and for what reason

after seeing the video my transom was done exactly the same when i cut it all out, the bloke used the existing transom skin so i will just cut the mess out of mine

i plan on cutting away all these cracks pictured that go right thru the skin, right where the motor bolts on is a total mess of resin, glue mix and cloth just slapped on

gazza2006au

20-05-2018, 01:26 PM

Plan is to at lease cut all this garbage out as pictured outlined, here is the preview of the video i paid for https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK-TqiVADpc

gazza2006au

21-05-2018, 06:28 PM

Picked up 6 meters of double bias cloth, 4.5 meters of CSM all though both shops didn't recommend it being used with epoxy, 25 litres of epoxy resin, some tools still need to pick up the plywood and mohair paint rollers

forgot i also grabbed 25kg of Industrial Talc Powder for filleting

i firstly called Dupont i think there name is and was quoted $400 for resin i drove there and they said it was resin only no hardener they wanted $600 for 24 litres resin/hardener so i drove to Newcastle and bought the resin from Trojan Fibreglass for $420 including the hardener

going to be a little tricky managing the resin the bloke at TF said the resin has new bottling no tap fitting and no pumps117132

Noelm

21-05-2018, 06:45 PM

Chimo

21-05-2018, 06:57 PM

You need one of these https://www.bennettfoamaustralia.com/product/resin-taps/ and
some of these to work your resin https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-ab&biw=1536&bih=710&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=docCW8D2AY-F0QS1ypfQAg&q=resin+rollers+australia&oq=resin+rollers+australia&gs_l=img.12...155485.161527.0.163216.8.8.0.0.0.0.3 45.1452.0j6j0j1.7.0....0...1c..64.img..1.0.0....0. BLSjgpA_nIk#imgrc=guWv8AhSvTSZcM:

Get an old kitchen scale from an op shop and weigh your resin into a bunch of ice cream containers.
Add MEKP at 1% just as you need the next lot of resin.
Use ice cream container once a day as they will be easy to clean the next day aft whats left has gone off.

I used to mix flocote at about 10 % with the resin so our jobs were coloured all the way thru so repairs to damage such as gun shots were relatively easy.

Good fun times back then.

gazza2006au

21-05-2018, 08:21 PM

Should be easy enough to pour the resin into a 4l ice cream container or something similar, it's a shame, but I gave away 3/4 of a roll of mat that I was keeping just in case I needed it one day, be careful with the rollers, some fall to bits when used with resin, the ones I used, even though quite cheap, had plastic centres that were good, have plenty of acetone on hand to wash your hands and so on, paint brushes and stuff, just toss them away, are you working outside?

Yeah i cannot believe it i gave away half a roll of Double Bias 450 gsm cloth for free on Gumtree i thought i would have never used it again such a shame, the fibreglass roller, 6m DB, 4.5m CSM and Talc cost me $150 i bought this from Dupont

i will grab some acetone from Bunnings thanks, Yeah working outside in the open so plenty of ventilation plus i have a 3m particular and gas mask

gazza2006au

21-05-2018, 08:23 PM

Noelm

22-05-2018, 06:11 AM

Might pay to maybe buy some of those cheap thin drop sheets, because I know from experience, that it doesn't matter how careful you are, resin is going to go everywhere, then you walk on the drops and spread it elsewhere, it's messy stuff to work with.

gazza2006au

22-05-2018, 02:14 PM

Yeah i might grab one of those Noel i need to keep the pets away from the back of the transom to when i do the skin section i am cutting out may have to tie the tarp down untill the resin cures

picked up some more supplies when i could, just need around 20 mixing cups, the plywood, coreflute for a transom template, drop sheet

price is slowly creeping up the boat plus supplies have cost me $1750 or there about's

double bias on the left or (top) chopped stran mat on the right or (bottom)
117145117146117147

Noelm

22-05-2018, 03:07 PM

How about looking on gumtree for one of those cheap shade gazebo things, putting it up as a roof, then put tarps or drop sheets around three sides to make a kind of garage, keep everything inside and out of the sun when working.

Chimo

22-05-2018, 03:10 PM

And eat lots of 2 and 4 lt tubs of ice cream too

gazza2006au

22-05-2018, 04:37 PM

Noel i could get a gazebo but its more money i'd be spending and i think the dogs would walk strait under those curtains my dogs are not Pomeranian haha i have 3 American and English Staffies and a Boarder Collie who likes to sit next to me while im working outside

Chimo haha i was actually going to buy the 2/4L ice cream containers yesterday but when the bloke charged me for the cloth i thought i better pass, i called up before i drove in was quoted $1.2 per kilo of talc = 25kg/$30 a bag, the double bias was $10/kilo i bought 3.29kg thats $32.90 i picked up one small 50mm fibreglass roller and 4.5 meters of very cheap chopped strand mat and the price came to $150 i wasn't dare to ask how much for the ice cream containers after putting the resin back... lol hopefully i never visit that shop again

Chimo

22-05-2018, 05:57 PM

Don't buy empty containers. Eat the ice cream!
Bulla was the go but its got too much sugar since they changed the recipe. Aldi is probably the go now as they seem to have less sugar and a better price anyway.

The really thin diameter roller I find great to get into tight spots or to roll into corners.

I find you don't need much acetone to clean up if you run maybe three lots i with the last lot the cleanest. I just use three saleable bottles and just use new acetone for the last bottle

gazza2006au

22-05-2018, 07:58 PM

I was going to buy the bunnings 10L buckets to pour the resin in to, i only have 20min pot life so i will need a few buckets

I still have to clean the transom all the plywood in the joints that i never cleaned than give it a vacuum and wipe

The transom might be a small job but sheesh there is a lot of farting around getting everything ready for it

Chimo

23-05-2018, 06:45 AM

I doubt I would ever mix 10 lt of resin in one lot.
Even when I had a crew of 4 or 5 working we measured and cut our layers of glass to be layed up but we still weighed and mixed 2 and 4 kg lots of resin.
We added mekp as we needed the next lot of resin so each batch of resin had max life so it could be worked in a timely fashion.

I suspect that if you are on your own you will struggle to keep up with things even with small lots of resin if you don't have you glass measured cut labelled and layed out or re rolled ready to be used on the job. It can get stressful enough even if you are well prepared in a shed but outside in the open with sun on the job things go off quicker.

We were outside for some of the big jobs ie 4 m wide by 6 m with 3 or 4 layers of glass layed up at a session with a mould we rolled over as we worked to end up with a sort of "U' shape with a flat bottom. Maybe an "H" shape with the sides cut at the cross piece better describes it.

We also included stringer like pieces as we went. Great potential for a heart attack without really good planning!

Noelm's cover / porta shed is a good one you should consider IMHO

Take picture (with a throwaway camera) as you proceed. Ask me how I know about cameras and resin!!!

Noelm

23-05-2018, 06:59 AM

When I did my boat, and I am by no means an expert, but, you learn damn quick! I got a few containers of resin ready (no hardener) and had them right at hand, and the hardener measured in small cups ready to go, old containers were just put aside to be "cracked" clean the next day, as I finished one batch, the next one took only a minute to mix, because it was ready to go, having a helper to mix up just as you are using the last bit is a great help. As mentioned, have all mat cut and marked ready to go, it won't matter how careful you are, you are going to get resin all over the place, including the dogs, working in the open does complicate things.

gazza2006au

23-05-2018, 11:39 AM

Thanks for the tips, the 10L bucket is just a cheap alternative to the ice cream containers as the buckets are 95c each i wont be mixing 10 litres of resin rather around 200-250mls per batch if the buckets melt i can just throw them away at the end of the day

hopefully going to pick up a trailer mover to move the whole boat its currently sitting on a down hill slightly off the driveway should give me a better position to access the transom once i move the boat onto the driveway

Fed

23-05-2018, 11:48 AM

Don't take pictures make a movie then play it back at twice the speed to the Benny Hill theme.
The money you make from youtube might buy you a new boat.
Good luck with it Gazza.

gazza2006au

23-05-2018, 03:17 PM

Fed yeah that was a plan for once its finished i will do a slow slide picture from the beginning maybe playing some Midnight Oil also hopping to get a mate or family member to sit on the bank for its first dip and test run to get it on video for the end of my youtube video

i have nearly 280,000 views on my youtube channel with over i think 150 subscribers so should be an audience

gazza2006au

23-05-2018, 07:28 PM

Bought a second hand clamp on type ratchet jockey wheel and used a 1/2" 2 foot long breaker bar the trailer just would not budge the rim on the wheel actually spun but the rubber stayed put i think my wheels are seized and the brakes are not even hooked up, Bugger

Crooked

25-05-2018, 02:29 PM

Hi Gazza,
I'm actually doing a similar project although mine is an old cruise craft hull, 550 Rambler. I'm taking a similar sort of approach, although I am doing the transom from the inside first, then I will cut out and do the stringers, install the floor and then cut off the cabin structure. I didn't want to remove too much structural integrity all in one go and have the hull want to sag all over the place. I'm at the stage of gluing in the new transom after laminating 2 pieces of 18mm play together.

I'm also using epoxy for strength but also the much better adhesion to plywood.

A few things from your above posts you might want to check:
1. chop strand is not generally used with epoxy. Chop strand has a binder with it to make all of the strands stick together in different directions, when you add polyester resin it breaks down the binder and the CSM will lay flat really well and take sharper curves etc. Epoxy doesn't break down the binder so you will not get the same result, I imagine it will still work but will not take the curves like with poly. It also will use a lot of resin and when using epoxy I don't think there is a lot of value in using the CSM, I am just going to use layers of the double bias. You can get binderless CSM but not in all places

2. For gluing you might want to consider fumed silica (often call Cabosil) it is much stringer than talc, but stronger means harder so difficult to sand. So I am to use cabosil additive for gluing and fillets but a sanding filler for fairing.

Good project though mate, lots to think about and plan, like you I hope all my plans come together

gazza2006au

25-05-2018, 02:48 PM

Hey Crooked Good to see someone else having a crack, do u have any pictures of your project?

There wasn't much structure in my cabin that's why when i seen this boat i just had to have it the cabin was held on by about 6 bolts 6mm and the one bulk head the main upper structure to her is the gunnels these are thick with plywood cores so far she hasn't flopped in the center

the videos i am watching are using a combo of CSM and double bias stitched together but we don't sell that 1708 in Australia yet its a pitty we are10-20 years behind the USA inmost things, when i bought the CSM i asked for it and i said i was using with epoxy the sales guy said it will work but i am not confident in his advice so i am only going to use the DB cloth

i picked up a box of cabosil i donno if the box was empty or bloody extremely light as a feather, this talc weighs a ton i was told the talc glue might sag so its a bit of a concern i wanted a lot of filler for not a lot of money that's why i went with talc

if the plywood shop is open over the weekend i might get the transom done pics to come soon

one thing i wanted to ask is should i grind back to bare hulli know it's probably meant to be done this way but whats left of tabbing is very thick like 6mm and 10mm in parts i think its impossible to grind all that away back to bare hull will it be ok to tab on top of this?

Crooked

25-05-2018, 09:59 PM

I have some photos and I'll try and get these up for you.

I guess you can always do some test pieces with the CSM see how it wets out. The cabosil is light but makes the epoxy an extremely strong glue, I haven't used talc so this might also be OK, again maybe a bit of testing to see if it does what you want.

In regard to grinding back to bare hull, I guess as long as the fibreglass you are tabbing to is solid ie. almost appears part of the hull anyway I guess there is no reason you can't tab to this. Ideally you want to get back to a base that is solid and usually this would mean removing any old tabbing etc, I have done this. Whatever the case fibreglass cloth will not want to conform to any sharp edges or lumps so whatever you have needs to be smooth and with gradual curves. I ground mine back with a 40 grit flapper disk and it will remove old fibrefglass really quickly, lots of dust though so cover up or be itchy for a while.

There are some key principles to follow but there are lots of different ways to go about it, heaps of opinions out there like mine but keep in mind they are opinions and not expert advice. There is no absolute correct way.

Noelm

26-05-2018, 06:20 AM

Just remember if you use really thick glue/bog (talc and resin) it's not very strong, it's quite brittle and will break.

stevej

26-05-2018, 02:55 PM

on a project this big that your going to spend 20-30k on why cut corners from the beginning

gazza2006au

26-05-2018, 02:59 PM

Thanks Crooked and Noel, learning as i go, the biggest problem i see is the large bilge someone has put layer on top of layer really bloody thick throughout the bilge and its hard to access to grind it all out its about 8-10mm thick thats without the hull

Steve its a under $10,000 boat build mate

gazza2006au

26-05-2018, 03:59 PM

I am hopping my CC is finished or close to it either this coming summer or the next summer so i can sell my current boat for 3-4k hopefully snag a nice 90hp or 115hp evinrude etec or a mercury optimax

Crooked

26-05-2018, 04:03 PM

Here is some photos of my project, hopefully they work last time the photos all went on their side. I have removed the splashwell so I have easy access to the stern, it's all ground back, the transom is laminated and ready to go in.
117151117152117153117154117155

stevej

26-05-2018, 04:50 PM

I doubt that it will add up

gazza2006au

26-05-2018, 08:16 PM

Looking good Crooked u have more work than me so i feel happy about that haha

I'm trying to upload a video of my slide show someone is holding my laptop to ransom with all my pictures on to worried if i keep any of my pictures they could have the virus, cant even do a reinstall from cd to clean the hard drive bugger

Stevo u seem addiment u know my finances so i wont blow any warm air up your blouse cheers :)

gazza2006au

26-05-2018, 10:13 PM

https://youtu.be/nmRH_z1gsI4

stevej

26-05-2018, 10:53 PM

wasn't implying your finances don't know why you think that

just saying this will cost more then your thinking all the little shit adds up, ive done it and a 445 haines set me back more then that

gazza2006au

27-05-2018, 12:21 AM

I just dont have $20,000 to spend i wish i did tho i would have bought a boat ready to go anyhow its a diy job untill i win that lotto i never play everyones dream isnt it lol

I donno what the bottom of the hull will cost yet paint and filler wise but i have allocated about $5,000 for the hull, $4000 if i cant get some decent money for my other boat that will be for a motor, trailer i only need a frame and use my existing drive train about $1,000-$1,500

I'm not going to fancy with all the bells and whistles first class i will be happy with a basic sea worthy boat, a good fuel efficient motor, a few hudred bux on a basic gps fish finder and i will be a happy chap

Biggest thing financially with this build will be to not over spend and dont splash out on stuff i can build or fabricate rather than buy

Crooked

27-05-2018, 03:07 PM

I have dry fit the laminated transom and this is how I will be clamping it when gluing. Will have a few more clamps across the top also, I used the ski hook holes and old bung holes to mount timber each side and then some timber boards cut to fit and braced off the old stringers and side gussets in other places.
117168

gazza2006au

27-05-2018, 04:00 PM

Looks good Crooked when will u be gluing and glassing?

I just spent an hour and a half cutting and a heck of a lot of grinding, that bilge laminate is an absolute s......er to grind out i barely touched the surface using the 40 grit flap disc i ground down the lip right around the transom i am happy with progress

Crooked

27-05-2018, 04:15 PM

I’ll hopefully do it next weekend if the weather improves bit wet and humid at the moment. Fibreglass grinding is certainly not the best job in the world.

gazza2006au

27-05-2018, 04:38 PM

Yeah i am putting back my transom untill i am happy with my prep work i have agreed with my self grind it all back to bare hull might be harder than i thought however the bilge laminate is pretty sold so i am sitting on the fence weather to glass over or under it, i want to do the best possible job just i think its going to take weeks on that one section the laminate is around 15mm in places its incredible thicker than the hull

Crooked

27-05-2018, 05:16 PM

As long as you are back to solid glass ie. no flaking or loose material and it provides a good surface without sharp edges to adhere to then I don’t think there is any good reason to try and grind it right back from what you have described.

gazza2006au

28-05-2018, 05:41 PM

I might grind back the small area for the tabbing but i think i will leave the majority of it there and just go over the surface

gazza2006au

31-05-2018, 05:09 PM

Will be back into it shortly guys just had doctor appointments and a house inspection so have been flat out lucky the landlord didn't say anything about the boat lucky i tipped those two trailer loads a couple of weeks ago

after seeing that link Chimo posted in the other thread it gave me an idea on how to go about the underside and the crustations, once i have the stringers and floor in i'll flip her over on the engine hoist like a rotisserie should be easier going on the fairing

just need the better weather here in Sydney pissed down last night so hopping the tarp kept the glass dry

gazza2006au

01-06-2018, 03:16 PM

Spent 2 hours this afternoon cuttings the stringers back, grinding away any left over wood, sanding the tabbings down with the 40 grit flap disc, lots and lots of sanding with the flap disc i was buggered 1 hour in just holding the grinder with one hand i had to keep swapping from side of boat to the other side to give my arms a rest finally got her done transom is about 98% done i have 2 small hairy spots left to flap disc as there were a lot of dry chopped mat and they used a unbelievable amount of glue along the under side of the plywood transom IMO a real shitty job i'm not saying mine will be better but for someone mass producing these boats bloody hell the voids down in the glue, the hair mat its unbelievable i would have liked to have seen there plywood cut out on the day of the build it must have been a lose fit

here are the pictures, transom skin will be cut out once i make my template from coreflute from Bunnings

gazza2006au

01-06-2018, 03:18 PM

Some more pictures

gazza2006au

01-06-2018, 03:20 PM

Really makes u think when spending a lot of money, time and energy rebuilding a boat like this and u see 3rd class workmanship in previous repairs you think and hope the hull is a good and solid rider

gazza2006au

02-06-2018, 12:58 PM

Picked up a 2400x1200mm sheet of Coreflute from Bunnings last night placed it on the outside of the transom and traced a line on the other side of the transom, cut her out fitted than made my upper transom cut out

i have made some big decisions 1 i am going to build a pod XL shaft, 2 my original transom was 25mm thick core i am going to modify the transom to take a 36mm core especially to help with the pod torque and rotational forces from the outboard anyone think i should go thicker? 48mm? 54mm?

pod will be designed a little later but it will be done before i get the Marine Mechanic out to do a HIN validation so i can register it and hopefully have it registered as a 20 footer

gazza2006au

03-06-2018, 04:58 PM

A bit more work, Tried to clean the transom with acetone it just smudged the blue sticker so got out the Bosch orbital and went over it with light paper it cleaned nearly all of the silicone i couldn't get off so i was thankful for that

next step i cut out the transom cracks and removed that section it than allowed me to stick my head into the boat and look at the transom skin from inside and i noticed a crap load of more poorly filled holes in the transom some where wood plugs some were resin/glue filled so i took 3 drill bits in larges sizes to the holes and drilled them out in prep for the transom going in

i am astonished at just how many accessories people have added to this transom over the years on this one boat its like swiss cheese, it has been repaired at lease once because there is a layer of paint over the original transom gel coat

my plan of attack on so many holes will be once the plywood transom is in place i will grind down the transom skin around each hole and bevel the skin to roughly a 75-100mm circle around each hole than fill the hole with a glue mix than multiple layers of double bias to build it up, fair it than paint

Noelm

03-06-2018, 05:21 PM

gazza2006au

03-06-2018, 05:38 PM

Why do you want a pod? unless you are going to remove the motor well altogether, it doesn't make sense, and removing the motor well, and building a straight full height transom is a lot of work, and will require a transom with no motor cut out at all, OH and the transom will be plenty thick enough.
Hey Noel, I don't have the ability to calculate the structure if i were to remove the entire splash well i went with the slightly lower transom cut out just to keep it looking ok as in a ascetics way instead of cutting the full squarish transom it looks to "boxy" i did think about making the transom the full height even tho it looked squarish and tying it into the front of the splash well but it just looked like one huge basic square box

i plan on keeping the splash well because i have a plan i am going to half embed a diy rounded corner live bait tank right thru the splash well this will keep a bait tank off the floor or from taking up room in front of the splash well

just a quick edit here: got my numbers wrong i am going with 3 sheets of 18-19mm ply so transom will be 54-57mm thick

Crooked

03-06-2018, 08:13 PM

When I was planning my build I called cruise craft who manufactured my boat and asked them about adding a pod. They strongly advised against it due to the changes it would make in the handling. Obviously it can be done but I bought the hull because it handles the sea well and I am reluctant to change those characteristics so I stayed with the same setup and I am just redesigning the motor well at the transom. If you want to pod it needs some thought and is usually done with a full height straight transom and no motor well for the added space.

Anyway i have glued my transom in today, lots of epoxy squeezing out everywhere so should have filled any voids. Hopefully the photo works. 117203

Crooked

03-06-2018, 08:18 PM

Oh BTW I have laminated 2 sheets of 18mm hardwood ply for my transom. This is what the thickness was of the old core and even then it was only full thickness at the top and only a single sheet thickness for the lower portion of the transom. So I don’t think you need to go crazy with your ply thickness this may only end up adding weight not strength.

gazza2006au

03-06-2018, 08:24 PM

Really depends what style of pod one builds, mine will run true with the hull so it should work in my favor for characteristics it'll basically be like a hull extension just its not the full width of the hull but that may change later on just means more work

i think the pods that are angled up strait off the transom bottom would be the ones with irregular tendency's as i noticed how the handling changed when i added a long shaft to a short shaft tinny with a jacking plate the boat handled dangerously and awkward steering the hull was flopping as i turned i would imagine these smaller pods would do the exact same thing since i am going long to extra long shaft

your pic is not working mate, be keen to see your progress

gazza2006au

04-06-2018, 03:24 PM

picked up the furniture grade plywood this afternoon i'm using the Okume 15mm MR 1/WBP glue plywood sheets was going to go with 25mm sheets but realized how thick the 3x 15mm sheets were

this plywood has a really nice pinky/marone colour to it would make a great coffee table, price was less than $30 a sheet BB/CC grade no knots either looks like really good plywood

these are non structural or furniture grade from research the structural stuff uses different glue that is not water and boil proof

catshark

04-06-2018, 06:17 PM

i thought you have to use marine grade plywood? or did i miss something. when i sourced marine ply for a job at $120 a sheet the expert suggested i could get away with structual plywood at 70$ a sheet, which is near enough to the good thing, same glue just some imperfections in the sheet.

gazza2006au

04-06-2018, 06:35 PM

You can use marine grade or exterior grade plywood, u can't use structual plywood because it doesnt have water and boil proof glue between the laminates u also need wood which has a decent density

stevej

04-06-2018, 07:26 PM

most reno type pods dont work
as your putting the engine out on a canter lever and not increasing hull length to match

dunked power heads porpoising tonnes of things to go wrong

gazza2006au

04-06-2018, 07:55 PM

The bottom of the pod will be full length with the keel i just havent decided if i'll be going a full width pod yet

Sinking the powerhead wont be a problem the boat was a long shaft it will take a extra long shaft on the pod

Catshark the designer BMD recommends using the exterior ply for there boats cant imagine spending $130 a sheet to build there boats :o

I think marine grade plywood is so expensive as they would have to sort thru the good and not so good laminates to make the plywood sheet, i thought about buying the marine ply when my transom was going to be 25mm but now 45mm i couldnt afford it

gazza2006au

05-06-2018, 02:51 PM

Ok so i found out my boats brand name is a Fibreform from the USA i think it was a rebadged Bertram/Caribbean, Seem to be plenty in the USA under Fibreform

Noelm

05-06-2018, 03:20 PM

Marine ply has an outer veneer in a superior grade, suitable for cabinets and so on, and the timber used to make the ply has no knots or voids, making it much stronger than cheaper plywood grades.

catshark

05-06-2018, 07:54 PM

i saw a local bloke transformed his Bertram 21 /maybe it was a carribean 21. , was an inboard initialy and he done a full width pod which he bolted on a big HP honda, seemed to sit nice in the water considering honda is a heavy unit.

gazza2006au

05-06-2018, 09:19 PM

I have a worry that i might be making the boat to light because i removed the roof and heavy glass windscreen but i am hopping to put in 9 or 12mm flooring so thats a little bit of weight going back in as my old floor was 6mm the builder also used timber stringers i will be using plywood

gazza2006au

07-06-2018, 03:33 PM

My last post was more about the buoyancy of the boat what i don't want is the chines at the back half of the boat to be floating above the water level it might be unstable at rest

anyhow here's some progress missed working on the boat all weekend as its poured and it poured and some more.... all while i had no where to put my plywood so i had to leave it on the trailer the whole time under a slightly leaky tarp, one top sheet got a little wet the second and third sheets only got wet edges, the ply now cut out is going to sit in the boat for a few days to dry out

Noel i went with your suggestion mate and left the top flat we'll see how it goes

going to be almighty hard to glass the plywood is heavy and awkward as u see the transom the top of the plywood cut out is 160cm from the ground i am only 167cm lol i am going to need a hand from my cousin

plan is to try get the first sheet to lay up against the transom skin flush i will probably have to remove it a few times to touch it up possibly round the inside edge off to fit the curve of the hull lay out corners and edges

this is todays 2 hours progress

Noelm

07-06-2018, 04:48 PM

If you are going to make a pod, then the full height transom makes sense, if using a motor well, cut it to suit 25" motor

gazza2006au

07-06-2018, 05:50 PM

Yeah I'm going with a pod so i guess i will leave the transom as it looks, ganna be a bugger to glue and glass in since i only left my self that small splash well cut out but i guess we learn from what we do wrong

ranmar850

07-06-2018, 08:58 PM

Don't you laminate those sheets together, , clamped and screwed until they set, before you put it in place? Glass the inside of the transom piece before you put it in place, then you only have to tab around the inside?

gazza2006au

07-06-2018, 09:23 PM

Ranmar thats one way of doing it the other is as 3 laminates so the first sheet conform to any inperfections and is 100% bonded

Doing the 3 layers in one go would be better for me less work less stress

Just need some sunny days to dry out sydney and i'll get her done

Edit: forgot to mention there looks to be a gap between my plywood and port side i only man handled the ply into place never actually centered it there is around 3-4mm gap both sides because of the odd shape of my sides of transom are not strait 1 length but rather 2 so if i cut the plywood to perfection the plywood would bind on its way down into the hull

Crooked

09-06-2018, 03:40 PM

Gazza if you are going with a pod why would you need to leave the splash well in at all? Why not cut the whole thing out, makes it easier to glass the transom and then build a flat stern of the transom? It might even be easier then trying to tab off the old splash well and fair this out.

gazza2006au

09-06-2018, 05:11 PM

Crooked i could do that and i have briefly thought about it but i just don't have the knowledge to rebuild it structurally or any decent idea's, how would u go about it? it is going to be a back breaker glassing and fairing that cut out splash well because of how high the transom is now and if i were to do it from inside the boat i need to lean right over the splash well

i have been taking self taught drone lessons haha if u call it such i am going to buy a decent 450 size drone for the initial splashing planning on trying to get some aerial photography of this boat when finished, would love to get one of those drones that follow you i could sit in the boat flying the drone while i get a mate driving the boat doing some cool runs, i have a fly over my place on video but my drone is only a 100mm drone so its tiny and the video is shaky

as for my splash well what could i do? i don't want to get too fancy with curves and a lot of technical cutouts and pieces if i were to remove the spalsh well i would want to keep it basic but not a huge box shape that is why i made that top cut out, i would also need to tie it into my existing sides/gunnels which are not flat

gazza2006au

09-06-2018, 07:45 PM

I don't know if this would work or not what's everyone's opinions? long bench maybe a seat maybe its structure? i donno but it would remove the splash well

what would be the chances of the hull moving shape if i cut out the splash well without glassing in the transom first?

catshark

09-06-2018, 08:18 PM

l suspect the sides near the stern will spread out if you cut out the splash well , even if you tempory brace it and go forth, you may open up a box you cant close. the splash well is a good structually piece, can you not keep it or does it impact your work.

Noelm

09-06-2018, 08:29 PM

How about using the inner piece as the top of the transom? Kind of hard to describe, but, if you get what I mean, the very inner top, cut off and used as a "deck" across the top, but right at the back?

gazza2006au

09-06-2018, 08:48 PM

Cat, i might keep it just sounds like a lot of work and i may screw up the boat if i remove it

Noel, u mean remove the most front bit of the splash well and re add this bit to the rear?

Noelm

10-06-2018, 06:50 AM

Yep, that was my thought, so when looking from inside the boat, the front of the motor well, gets moved to the transom, it might look a lot more original, it would mean a couple of repairs, but not too bad. I know a guy that did what you are doing, and he took a "mold" from the side deck to make a section to fit across the back, it worked OK, but he was a good glass guy.

giddyup58

10-06-2018, 08:49 AM

Hi Gazza. - Just spotted your build thread.

Have a look here - Its only a little more involved than what you are doing - http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php/199535-Mustang-24-rebuild - this is what you are up for, before you get too deep into it.

Done professionally, transome stringers and floors will cost $10- 15K. I just did a 16' Haines, and it took me 6 weeks full time, and this was not my 1st rodeo.
.
117247 117248 117249 117250

You have a very long road ahead mate.
Good luck.

gazza2006au

10-06-2018, 02:17 PM

Decided i am going to leave the splash well in the boat guys i don't want to produce a lot more work for my self i need to keep the build relatively simple so i keep focused on getting her finished, i am going to glue my plywood together outside of the boat than put on 2 layers of cloth once its cured i'll sand the sides and glue her into the boat than i will glue and tab her in seems the most reasonable way and way less effort than trying to lay all that glass while the plywood is inside the boat

i am feeding off of the advice u guys are giving i can only research so many ways of doing one thing and even than i only see 10% so when u guys mention new idea's to me it opens up a new window, keep the advice rolling it :)

giddyup that is one fantastic build mate u done a really u beaut job love the transom addition, i plan on going with a bolt on pod just because glassing on a pod has me worried as it wont be engineered it will just be a throw together and hope for the best

gazza2006au

14-06-2018, 04:17 PM

Finding it hard to find time between the rain and crap weather and the good sunny days to laminate the ply together so i moved the transom into the shed

in the shed will allow me to laminate the layers and glass the top or inside of the transom this update is basically just to log my pictures

also picked up a nice all carbon fiber drone so if i can teach my self to fly i should have some really neat videos once the boat is done and splashed

anyone know what the lowest temp can be to glass the plywood? i might do it tomorrow evening but its getting down to 1c here and it will be out in the garden shed

also picked up some 1200mls mixing cups with 5:1 ratio so we are in business, going to the hardware house soon for those screws and i have everything

ranmar850

14-06-2018, 04:25 PM

It will go off very slowly at those kinds of temps overnight, if all. Sure, you can push it with the hardener a bit, but, when I have had to deal with low temps and wet conditions ( in a shed), I've actually left a fan heater running overnight, fire risk, but I had to get it done and no other way. You may be better off doing it the next day instead, to at least get daytime temps, but the need to make a living gets in the way?

gazza2006au

14-06-2018, 04:39 PM

ranmar thanks for the post mate, do u think the resin will go off if i glass it about 2-3pm? i can run a small heater untill around 11pm but i cannot leave it on all night don't trust my dogs with the power cord running out to the shed while i'm sleeping all though i may do it i might see if i can pick up a used oil heater

Crooked

14-06-2018, 07:05 PM

Looks like you have to opposite issue to what I have, in FNQ I am always in a battle with the heat and humidity. I use super slow hardener to give me some work time. I don’t use epoxy on ply when the humidity is high as the water content in the wood is high therefore less epoxy penetration and you can have issues with cure. Probably not an issue for you though.

Also I would be careful where you laminate ie. make sure the surface is flat, I did mine on a cement slab and used a straight edge to find the flattest spot first. I guess you could always plane it flat if you ended up with a sag but creates more work. The heater is a good idea and you might want to run this for an hour or more before you do the work.

gazza2006au

14-06-2018, 08:00 PM

Noelm

15-06-2018, 08:14 AM

Use stainless screws and just leave them in there? not an expert, but if you glassing around 2PM, you should have little trouble with it going off.

ranmar850

15-06-2018, 09:35 AM

yeah, you should be OK if you start it earlier, i would think. Once the process starts, it may slow down when the temps drop but is still happening. Leaving the heater in the area for the evening --we don't want to cook it, just keep the ambient up to aound 20 deg, should ensure it hardens enough to be handled in the morning, I would think.
I'm no expert either, but have turned out a number of iceboxes up to a tonne in capacity, and they are all still in service, far as I know. Just about to start on a fibreglass-bodied fridge for the boat.

gazza2006au

15-06-2018, 11:08 AM

Thanks guys for the help, got an early start today at 8am the sun was shinning on the area i have the transom so i decided to move it out into the sun glad i did i don't think i would have been able to glass it in the shed with no room to move

i cut off the first layer of cloth and glassed it on than cut off the second layer and repeated than went to get the third layer and the guy at the shop shafted me 1 meter on the cloth not happy about that, asked for 6.5m rolled out 2x 2.15m left over with only a small bit now i guess i will use it for the tabbing

transom is sitting in the sun i will trim it later today before the resin fully sets that way i only need a stanley knife

i used somewhere around 1.2-1.4L of resin, the 3 layers of plywood bond took 200mls each and the cloth took 1L for 2 layers of 450gram

gazza2006au

15-06-2018, 02:00 PM

Transom is done just trimmed it but a few little shaggy bits left where i should have wet out the cloth 10mm over the edge of the plywood so the cured cloth can be cut but some spots i only wet to the edge of the ply so it became a problem cutting it with the blade

any how shes done

we have 1 more sunny day than rain from what i seen on the weather channel i don't feel confident enough to glue the transom in, glue and tab it all in on one day so i may put it off untill next week when we get a few sunny days in a row

kind of a little worried about the talc sag to not sure if i should invest in something lighter as suggested earlier in the thread by other members, i kind of dont want to start gluing than go OH F*** and i have to redo the whole thing because the glue sags, that bag of talc would weigh close to a bag of sand if not more

Chimo

15-06-2018, 05:19 PM

Just in case you missed it on the other thread http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php/125475-Seafarer-Appreciation-thread?highlight=seafarer+Appreciation

gazza2006au

15-06-2018, 06:40 PM

Weather man said it was going to be sunny today and tomorrow, This afternoon it started raining lucky i had moved the transom into the shed 1 hour before it rained, the resin has gone off and was last hard but a tiny bit flexible so i am hopping it worked in this cold weather currently 14c here right now

Went thru 2 pages looks like a Beautiful hull that Attitude boat can take 2.5m of sloppy swell most people would have given the day a miss lol

gazza2006au

16-06-2018, 01:05 PM

I'll be doing more work today guys, i need to sand down some more of the tabbing area and i need to sand the rest of the remaining glue on the transom skin, looks like i am on my own tho 2 hands when i really need 4 kind of job so i am really going to struggle lifting those 3 layers of plywood 5 foot over my head to slide down into the boat just moving the transom ply around in the shed is almost slicing my hands open its that heavy remember its furniture grade plywood not just random hardware stuff

any how i am just having a bitch lol the show must go on

more pics once the transom is glued into place

edit: forgot to mention those galvanised screws zipped out as hard as they went in and the scrap cloth i have inside that i cut off the plywood transom has gone 98% stiff so good enough to say the resin went hard but i think its going to take another day or two to go rock hard

gazza2006au

16-06-2018, 04:13 PM

Two screws top right corner stripped i donno if i can remove them anyhow the transom is in i done the best i could those 3 layers were heavy to lift and i got lucky i had someone come help lift it i slid it forward in the cut out section than i glued the whole transom skin than slid the plywood back and glued into place what a bloody job :-?

i was running around frantically looking for my Ryobi cordless after my AEG went flat, i am absolutely covered in resin all over my hair all over my hands and arms all over my clothes, the resin was the dirtiest job ever and it was sticky like baby poo on carpet

i put around 25 screws all over the transom i have someglue oozing out of the existing holes and around the cut out section i am glad this job is done

i will wait 2 days than remove the plywood fingers crossed its all done ok

gazza2006au

18-06-2018, 10:41 AM

I screwed up guys as i was screwing the left side of the transom one of the first screws has pushed the plywood forward and left a void in the circled areas

what should i do?

i am thinking cut the skin on the left side pull the plywood back than glass the whole area but what are everyone else's thoughts?

Noelm

18-06-2018, 02:05 PM

Can you lever the outer skin away enough to get some resin in there?

gazza2006au

18-06-2018, 04:53 PM

Noel mate i was not confident once i removed all the plywood on the outside and the screws that transom job sucked a.. this is my first job and i am going to do it properly so i started by removing what bond was between the plywood and skin and there was hardly any bond

what i done next was cut the whole outer skin out than removed the plywood it tore up a layer or two off the plywood but i will use resin and maybe a layer of cloth to repair it

from here on once the plywood is repaired i will start to reconstruct the transom i should be able to get a good bond right around the edges of the skin but that plywood is heavy so i have already asked my cousin to lend a hand i told him i already screwed it up because its not a one person job

kind of glad i didn't just try to drill holes and fill the voids with glue but no excuses i done an absolute shit job i will do it better tho

Noelm

18-06-2018, 05:36 PM

How did you try to bond the timber to the outer skin?

gazza2006au

18-06-2018, 06:26 PM

I'll edit this post i was out of home on the mobile when i replied, what i had done was i borrowed a couple of hands for 2mins when i was ready because my mates and family are always busy its hard to get them when i need the help so i had got help lifting the plywood into the boat i slid the plywood forward in my cutout i than put my hand in and glued the transom skin than by my self i had to try pull the transom back solo and i think this is where i messed up i thought by screwing the screws in from the outside of the transom skin it was going to pull the plywood in flush but it must have bind the right side actually looked like it had fitted and glued in perfect but that was a later fail

the hull is now a little flimsy so i need to be careful how i proceed, lucky i didn't cut out the splash well its the only thing keeping it upright

catshark

19-06-2018, 07:53 PM

wowsers, hide the grinder back in the shed, just a little set back , so what now? pack up the thickness and add a full piece transom cover board and back thru screwed to the inner plywood.

gazza2006au

19-06-2018, 10:41 PM

picked up a fair dinkem free tandem trailer tonight cost $0 it looks like it should fit my boat on it

wowsers, hide the grinder back in the shed, just a little set back , so what now? pack up the thickness and add a full piece transom cover board and back thru screwed to the inner plywood.
I'll repair the plywood once that's done i will prep and glue the inside of the skin than screw the plywood into place than glass the outside than i'll work on the inside

Noelm

20-06-2018, 08:26 AM

When we did my mates transom we did a similar thing, but in a way, different, we made sure it was going to fit perfectly, then we did a single layer of slow hardening chopped strand on the inside skin, and moved the timber up to it, then used home made clamps to pull it tight together, don't know if it was right or wrong, but that was years ago, and that boat is still in use.

gazza2006au

20-06-2018, 09:53 AM

Yeah the clamps make it a expensive option i looked into those that's why i use the screws but it didn't pan out i think what i need to do is make sure my transom is rounded around the edges on the plywood to skin side i think this should help it fit better rather than have the square edge on the round hull edges

i will be patient this time and make sure the transom fits 101% before i proceed

that trailer i just picked up is for a 5m boat absolute bugger my boat will be 6-6.1 meters finished, has anyone extended a trailer?

catshark

20-06-2018, 06:51 PM

good find that trailer, for free and perhaps moving the bow post forward, or extend the drawbar with new bow post attached. or with the back get some rhs that will sleeve into the original Rhs and mig up a little extension and couple over that sleeve, finish with thru bolts. as long as your prop isnt 1 meter from your tail lights you shouldnt get booked. this is only a guide im not up to date on the exact distance.

gazza2006au

20-06-2018, 10:33 PM

Thanks Cat, The trailer measures 4.5m or it will fit a 5m boat with those rocker mounted rollers on the back i was just sending off emails to welders on Gumtree asking if anyone would take it on as a job i asked if they could butt weld on some RHS and extend the two outer frame rails 1 full meter

also called around to see how much it would cost to strip the galvanize $0.80c per kilo and $5 per kilo to re-galvanize it

trailer was an absolute great find only VIC expired rego they use a 6 digit VIN number bloke said he towed it up from VIC and wanted the boat not the trailer so it was going out the door for free i just had to drive to Jervis Bay to pick it up, there are no holes but it does have surface rust on the 2 welded cross members the 3rd cross member is a bolt on swing type of cross member kind of weird set up

drawbar is tiny tho i would say 40x40mm/45x45mm defiantly not 50x50mm maybe the material is really thick tho i donno will have to check it out more during the day

xpaladoshous

21-06-2018, 08:32 AM

$5 a kilo for HDG is highway robery. We pay 65c a kilo in Brisbane.

gazza2006au

21-06-2018, 11:37 AM

$5 a kilo for HDG is highway robery. We pay 65c a kilo in Brisbane.

The place in New Castle that charges i think it was $3 kilo doesn't have a tank to remove the galvanizing he sand blast and said because its RHS steel he can't blast inside of the tubing and it will set his whole tank off

gazza2006au

21-06-2018, 11:38 AM

Just cannot seem to get a break in weather to do this transom everyday its raining or cold and overcast :(

catshark

21-06-2018, 08:09 PM

hard to see but you could chop out the draw bar and replace it with the more common size these days of 100x100mm, it just sits directly under the front "A" with supporting rhs grabbing both rails on the body frame. doesnt the trailer have keel rollers? thats strange

catshark

21-06-2018, 08:16 PM

being ex victoria rego on the trailer, they will look closely when you blue slip it, as you know how they are, also im no welder but i dont think you can butt weld the rhs at the end there, you might see your engine plowing the road behind you

gazza2006au

21-06-2018, 09:03 PM

I was thinking of asking the welder to weld flat bar to both sides of the butt weld

Noelm

22-06-2018, 07:04 AM

I think leaving the back of the trailer as is and extending or making a whole new draw bar is the best option, unless you are going to sand blast and regalvanise, any welding on the back will see rust set in very fast, even if you cold gal and paint, it will rust.

gazza2006au

22-06-2018, 12:01 PM

I was looking to replace the draw bar because it is tiny but do u think it would look odd with a long draw bar? i was going to get it dipped in acid than re-galvanized

I'm about to go repair the transom plywood now i will hold off on the pics untill its all properly glued into the boat

Noelm

22-06-2018, 01:07 PM

If there is any rust at all on the trailer, it will need to be blasted, they acid dip anyway before galvanising, but it will not clean off rust, well, not proper rust anyway.

Fed

22-06-2018, 01:28 PM

That looks like a lot of trailer for a 5M boat Gazza, have you run a tape measure over it & compared it to your Baron?

gazza2006au

22-06-2018, 02:12 PM

If there is any rust at all on the trailer, it will need to be blasted, they acid dip anyway before galvanising, but it will not clean off rust, well, not proper rust anyway.
Ah bugger this is why the guy in Newcastle said he couldn't do it because he cannot blast inside the steel tubing, the other companies i called said they will dip it in acid to clean off the old gal than re-gal it

Noelm

22-06-2018, 02:12 PM

I was kind of thinking the same thing, but thought maybe it was just how the photos made it look.

gazza2006au

22-06-2018, 02:14 PM

That looks like a lot of trailer for a 5M boat Gazza, have you run a tape measure over it & compared it to your Baron?

Hey Fed yeah i measured from the V block to the rear cross member it measures 4.5m than the roller arm brings it out to around 4.75-4.8m so it should fit a 5m boat, my boat as it sits is 5.5m but with a pod will likely be 6-6.1m

gazza2006au

22-06-2018, 02:16 PM

I think this is how i messed up on the first transom install i have never seen anyone round the edges on there new plywood before installing it tho (pic drawn is looking from up above the boat down on top of the boat)

gazza2006au

22-06-2018, 05:15 PM

Found this info on re-gal a boat trailer

What do I need to know if I want to refurbish my boat trailer? (https://www.hartway.com.au/faqs/#)We get a lot of enquiries about refurbishing boat trailers. There are three main considerations for you:
1. Cost: Redoing old trailers is usually cheaper than a new one, but some things to save you money: a). If you mix galvanized and painted materials, there will be a surcharge on each of these adding to the cost – keep all the steel coatings the same to save money. b). Inside hollow sections there is often a lot of rust that reacts adversely with the zinc and you end up with heaps of zinc stuck inside that adds to the weight and so costs you more – banging the frame about a bit to dislodge this will help. c). Blasted trailers will cost less. d) Hartway is able to give you a rate per meter of trailer if you do not know what the weight is.
2. The final product: The quality of the coating will be heaps better than your old one, but will never rival a brand new trailer – we are galvanizers and not genies! Getting rid of the internal rust, replacing old pitted surfaces and putting the required drain holes in will give you a good protective coating.
3. Preparing your trailer: a). Take off all tyres, winches, axles, springs, nuts, bolts, brackets, tow hitches, wiring and any aluminium tags – if you leave them on they will either get frozen in zinc or melt off into the bath. Speak to us if you need to drag the trailer to us and then use the space in our yard to work on it. b). Clean as much of the surface contaminants off it before it gets to the galvanizer – flakey rust, old paint jobs – note: don’t remove stickers – leave them on so we can grind them off(the invisible glue underneath them is our worst enemy and the sticker shows us where to grind).