Volvo IPS 600

[kc]

Anyone running these as twins or know anyone who is. Would like to discuss fuel consumption figures.

[juggernaut]

Have a look at reviews for the Mustang 430 Sports Coupe and the Riviera 4400 Sports Yachts for fuel consumption. May not be the boat style your looking at but might provide an indication. I was speaking to an owner of the later just over the weekend and said his best cruise speed was 22 knots. Have the owner of a Mustang Sports Coupe on my jetty - haven't been on the boat but very quiet and has been reliable over the 3 years I've been on the jetty.

[kc]

Thanks mate. Internet has become an amazing tool for finding info but I guess has its share of "fake news". I found a detailed boat test of the very boat motor set up I am looking at on the ########.com site and numbers where plain crazy. Since found out a lot more info and clearly the boat test reviewer stuffed up his fuel consumption calculations, he in fact just doubled them. Scared the crap out of me when I watched the video review and he gave his fuel consumption/range numbers. I would have needed to tow a fuel barge. Anyhow. All good. Have good accurate data with the IPS system seemingly offering far better performance and fuel economy than standard shaft drives.

[myusernam]

How.much at the bellows and servicing costs? I'd be guessing u still won't come out in front...

[kc]

About the same as legs with an expected rebuild at about 1000 hours. I was originally looking for a shaft boat but a lot of factors to weight up. Put simply, if you worry about price, dont own a big boat. I was more worried about range, or lack there of. Happy on numbers carrying 1500 litres it will have 400 odd miles range with the hammers down or 1500 miles range if i want to poke along at 7 knots and enjoy the scenery.

[juggernaut]

They will definately cruise faster and burn less fuel than shaft drives, all else being the same. Just far more efficient primarily due to having no shaft angle. Boat will ride flatter too as a result.

[Smithy]

Run, run away and fast.

[kc]

Hi Smithy, care to elaborate? Have done as much homework on the IPS as I can, including a lot on Hull Truth with IPS owners, spoken to the Volvo mechanic who has looked after my current leg boat and "think" I know what I am up for. Good running, better speed and fuel, off-set by a $30K rebuild after 1000 or so hours. Have looked at Shafts Vs legs on this actual boat (can't post the link but if you google boat test IPS for bigger boats the test boat, running 500 Cummins on shafts and IPS 600 Volvos the article is about the exact boat. A Doral 45 Alegria . The boat I am looking at has 400 hours up so have a couple of years use before a rebuild and, most of my running will be low speed cruising. I have only every seen 1 IPS "in the flesh" and it worried the sh#t out of me having forward facing props with no "protection", but, the numbers are the numbers. Appreciate your input as a pro.

kev

[TheRealPoMo]

Sorry I have to show my ignorance here but $30k rebuild in 1000 hours? So thats about equivalent to 80000km in an automotive application - less wear probably since the constant speed, no short trip thing. I hope for 400000km from my diesel ute...is the markedly shorter lifespan a saltwater thing?

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[kc]

Welcome to the world of big boats kept in the water. Leg boats are all the same, in general, expect to have to rebuild every 1000 hours or so. Living in the water is a very harsh environment. Drive your ute along the tide line for 12 months and see if you get 400,000 k's =).

Shafts offer far and away the best cost option of less moving parts, simple technology and cheaper maintenance, but IPS and Zesus pod drives are becoming increasingly popular in mid size cruisers because of speed and range. The joy stick docking is just "wank factor" or for people who don't know how to park a big boat in the first place IMO A bit like Ulterra Minn Kotas. Just more to go wrong. So yes. Have to budget $15K a side at 1000 hours, just as I have in the past with my leg boat so it is something you generally have to do once in the life of owning the boat, or sell it to some poor unsuspecting bugger who does not do his homework. 1000 hours in an IPS should burn about 20 litres per hour less at cruise speed that a shaft drive. $30 an hour, times the 1000 hours is the service costs on your pod. Regular annual maintanence is about $2000 , much more than shafts but usually don't have thrusters or rudders to worry about so not much more and, again, about the same, or a bit less than legs.

[TheRealPoMo]

So it's the leg, not the engine that suffers? That I understand. ..a diesel is a diesel tho I would have thought.
Anyways sounds like boat does really stand for Bring Over Another Tenthousand. Must be a nice rig though, good luck to you.

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[Smithy]

You'd only want to own them with extended warranty and then sell them as soon as you are out. Like all computer things, just so buggy. Do not know one person with them that does not have continual bugs. All sorts of little sensors feeding info into computers in the marine evironment is not a good situation. That is before all the mechanical side of it. Always seem to be doing transmissions, dropping transmission oil or transmissions running hot etc. Also the seals. They are like $20+k for a full seal kit. They just aren't worth the hype. I know some of the big Rivs etc you have no choice, it is IPS or nothing. One guy here with a 53' Riv is always on the phone to Riv/Volvo sorting error codes. A 53' Riv from Redcliffe nearly didn't fish a game tournament last weekend as no one from Riv or Volvo would answer his calls at 4am. He was fuming and just went for it even with an error code which obviously never caused it to go into limp mode or anything. Another guy with a Riv here and actually fishes it a fair bit is continually having issues. He had to bring it home on one motor from the Maheno area of Fraser the one trip. Usually transmission and steering issues. I don't think it hardly ever works on spot lock mode successfully. The seals are major issues too. I saw a towered Riv here on the hard stand the other day with both legs dropped off. Not sure what was going on there. Shafts are proven and maintenance wise pretty good.

[The Woo]

.............

[kc]

Thanks Smithy. Amazing that it is often becoming an issue of IPS or nothing these days with some makers. You recon it would be in their interests to get it sorted. I know the boat I am looking at is maybe $100K under "the money" so if I move forward I will have to factor this in. Getting a full diagnostic as well as set of oil samples and will see if/when seals were replaced. 5 to 7 years for a seal kit seems to be about the mark so may offer some additional leverage come a settlement number if I move to complete. BOAT...yep, Bring Out Another Thousand and, in the case of a big boat BOATT...nothing I am not used to but would be a sad old life without them. Not another Doral Alegria for sale in Australia and very few ever produced with shafts. Interestingly the few for sale internationally have really held their value with the 2008's still selling for north of $400K Aus in the US and Europe and that is before shipping and GST so they are $500K+ boat to land here. Finish and Fit-out wise the best under 50 foot boat I have ever set foot on but all the real money is under the floor, not in the cabin.

[Smithy]

Just Googled it. That is thru Ensign here and pics are from Mooloolaba. Have you rung Dolphin Marine? They are most probably the Volvo people looking after it here and would know the history?

[kc]

Hi Smithy. Yes Dolphin Marine are doing engine diagnostic report. Oil sample report from both engines and pods and an inspection on seals, anodes and overall condition report when she is on the hard next week. Also getting full marine survey. I am then getting their report run by my own guy up here who has looked after my Volvo power mustang for 8 years so hoping I am ticking every possible box. 2 main red flags raised are 1. that the seals have already been changes, as they should be at about the 7 year mark, particularly in warm water, and that the engines, given they have only averaged 40 hours a year, do not have any internal corrosion in the heads. Both issues red flagged by my local mechanics. I have done as much homework as I can both here and internationally. Obviously not many in Australia, maybe only 1 other one and those in US and Europe seem to be holding value pretty well, with her sister ship for sale in the USA for $350K US, about $550K Aus by the time you convert $, ship and pay GST. I have an agreed price "subject to reports, inspection and sea trial" which gives me plenty of maintenance "fat". Above water she is the most impressive boat under 50 foot I have ever set foot on, leaving Princesses and Sunseekers in the shade, but, Money is all below decks. I know it is not a fishing boat, it is not supposed to be, the fishing boat gets towed out the back =) Kev

[Crocodile]

Hello kc,
USA website ########.com is running a user satisfaction survey at the moment.

For mine IPS combines the worst of shafts and sterndrives into one very expensive package, they are a triumph of marketing over common sense and practicality.
All of which is your problem not mine.

[Crocodile]

That is boat test, all one word .com

[kc]

Thanks mate. Will have a look see. It is not my problem yet. Still have plenty of get out of jail clauses in the contract if I need to.

kc

[kc]

Can you private email me a link. can't find it kc@whitsunday.net.au

[Crocodile]

Hello kc,

Lookup ######## .com .
It has heaps of articles on IPS.
I cannot now find the link to IPS Survey either.
I am a member of ######## and get emails.
I joined just to see what the yanks do.
My boat does not have quadruple 400 verados so I therefore cannot be enjoying myself.
Nor do I carry an arsenal of firearms for self protection.
It's another world over there.

[kc]

Thanks Croc. I'm a member as well, also Hull Truth and couldn't find any user surveys. Plenty of user comments on Hull Truth and a few other websites, most of them seem to have issues early, settle down, and then have a reasonable run through to a 1000 hour rebuild. At the same time I have just sold a leg boat after 7 years ownership and seems to be as many leg horror stories as IPS ones. Maybe more to do with penny pinching each lift on servicing costs and how hard you drive them?. No doubt shaft boats are the easy option in terms of maintenance but buggered if I have been able to find the "right' boat with the specs I want. Amazing as have looked how many boats, even 45 footers, are either legs of IPS. Maybe shaft owners don't sell their boats =). Anyhow, moving down a pathway with all the diagnostics being done and all the seals done by way of preventative maintenance while she is on the hard. Most of my running will be low rev towing a fishing boat but if I end up buying her it will be with eyes wide open and enough fat in the deal to cope with some major refits. Surprising to some degree in the worlds biggest boating market, the US, that IPS powered vessels hold value as well and at times even better than same boat with shafts. The sister ship to the boat I am looking at is for sale in the US for well over $100K more than I am paying in Aus dollars and it would still need to be shipped and taxed to put it North of $200K more than I am paying. On a nice note my little Mustang left her pen this morning with the new owner who had a nice 6 hour run to Townsville, trouble free with still 1/4 tank of fuel and 6 beers left when he got her to her new home. 2 best days. The day you buy them and the day you sell them.

[kc]

& yes, the yanks are "special" I am over there in Fort Laurdidale next week on route to a Bonefish trip to the Bahamas. Should be "interesting". Might wear my "Make America Great Again Hat"...or maybe not =)

[juggernaut]

######## readers response to IPS experience.

www.########.com/view-news/5770_answers-to-ips-question-readers-respond-about-ips-experience (http://www.########.com/view-news/5770_answers-to-ips-question-readers-respond-about-ips-experience)

[myusernam]

http://boatdiesel.com/Forums/index.cfm?CFAPP=6&Forum_ID=622&Thread_ID=64390

Subscribe page so might not be able to see much. I can screenshot and email.
Gist is there an many models (A-f)
The latest one has been out for two years so starting to get reliable. But the early ones very bad. A few Volvo dealers chimed in and said they were a bad thing. This guy who started the thread bought a type a system (twins) with only 250 hours. Full boat survey no water in oil etc. Started delivery trip and one blew up. Full rebuild$35k us (just the drive). And u know how much cheaper stuff like this is in the USA. Anyway he copped it on the chin. Got the work done. Headed off on delivery trip and other drive had a different failure. Only $19k rebuild. Then dealers and others chimed in. One Volvo dealer said he wasn't a fan, and that the performance is great but at a heavy price
Someone else said that when the topic crops up on boat diesel the general consensus is they're too complex and maint intensive for recreational boating.
Just repeating what was said in thread.

I have seen forty foot sports boats with twin DP legs. I'm sure they go way better than shafts but more maint and if i had to choose I don't think I would choose them over shafts. Seems the decision to go IPS might be similar

[vinvaite]

I have owned two IPS boats (one D4 based and the current D6's).

The first boat was a disaster (@1000hrs had IPS issues and D4 engine failure) which admittedly was the first generation IPS. Issues with the D4's believe related to older/bad injector and piston design issues since revised. That cost me.

My current boat has 200hrs on it without incident (from new) so fingers crossed. The reason i bought IPS again is because of 5yr warranty from wheel to prop. I would be extremely hesitant to own one outside of warranty especially if service history is unknown. Send me a PM if you want real world owner opinion on anything, fuel consumption etc.

[Smithy]

Saw it come out the other day. Does Adam Ashby the boatbuilder own it or did he buy it?