Used Outboard Advice, Merc. 2013 2Cyl 40hp ELPTO vs Merc. 2006 3Cyl 40hp Lightning XR

[Daniel Boone]

Hi All,

I am weighing up two used outboards for a re-power of my under powered Clark 427 Kakadu, which currently has a 30hp 2 stroke Suzuki.

Both of the available motors I'm considering are Mercury 2 strokes with oil mixing, electric start and power trim and tilt. One is a 2006 3 Cylinder Lightning XR and the other is a 2013 2 Cylinder ELPTO.

What I am hoping is someone here may be able to help me decide which is the better choice based on their personal experience or inside knowledge.

From what I can find the motor specs are

2013
Mercury 40hp 2 stroke ELPTO
2 Cylinders
644cc
2.00:1
Post Mix
Loop Charged
78kg


2006
Mercury 40hp 2 stroke Lightning XR
3 Cylinders
967cc
1.83:1
Post Mix
Loop Charged
95kg

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated
Thanks Dan

[Ally410]

I’ve only got experience with the Yamaha 30hp which have a similar model split I.e. a 2 cyl and a 3 cyl version. The 3 cyl Yamaha, whilst heavier, is quite a bit smoother to operate, particularly at low revs, it also has a larger displacement than the 2 cyl (as the Mercury’s you’ve quoted do) which generally translates in my opinion to the larger displacement engine having to work less hard to produce the same horsepower, which theoretically translates to potentially a longer life. That said, I had the yam 30 2 cyl for 17 years and it never missed a beat, I also appreciated the less weight the 2 cyl had than the 3 cyl equivalent on my AllyCraft 410. That said, I didn’t do a lot of low speed running, when I did the 2 cyl would tend to oil up a bit, nothing major but noticeable when you hit the throttle to get up on the plane again after a period of idling.

In short, depends on your use. I think the 3 cyl would probably be the better long term, all round proposition if you weren’t worried about weight.

All of the above of course assumes similarity of principles between the yam and the Mercs which I think would be a reasonable assumption.

[Ally410]

Sorry one other thing I intended to comment on re the age, assuming the engines have been looked after to a similar (high) standard, I wouldn’t consider the older age of the 3 cyl a relevant factor, pretty bulletproof these 2 strokes if looked after.

[Daniel Boone]

I’ve only got experience with the Yamaha 30hp which have a similar model split I.e. a 2 cyl and a 3 cyl version. The 3 cyl Yamaha, whilst heavier, is quite a bit smoother to operate, particularly at low revs, it also has a larger displacement than the 2 cyl (as the Mercury’s you’ve quoted do) which generally translates in my opinion to the larger displacement engine having to work less hard to produce the same horsepower, which theoretically translates to potentially a longer life. That said, I had the yam 30 2 cyl for 17 years and it never missed a beat, I also appreciated the less weight the 2 cyl had than the 3 cyl equivalent on my AllyCraft 410. That said, I didn’t do a lot of low speed running, when I did the 2 cyl would tend to oil up a bit, nothing major but noticeable when you hit the throttle to get up on the plane again after a period of idling.

In short, depends on your use. I think the 3 cyl would probably be the better long term, all round proposition if you weren’t worried about weight.

All of the above of course assumes similarity of principles between the yam and the Mercs which I think would be a reasonable assumption.


Thanks,

This was one of the things I have been weighing up, I do a far bit of trolling for lizards and thought the 3 cylinder would be smoother.

Also as I have been struggling with getting on the plane loaded with the 30 I currently have so I thought the bigger cubic capacity of the 3 cylinder 40hp would help with hole shot, from what I understand they have more torque than the 2 cylinder.

It is a shame the 3 cylinder is the older of the two, although it looks tidy and I guess the money I save on it compared to the 2013 is insurance for possible maintenance.

[Daniel Boone]

Sorry one other thing I intended to comment on re the age, assuming the engines have been looked after to a similar (high) standard, I wouldn’t consider the older age of the 3 cyl a relevant factor, pretty bulletproof these 2 strokes if looked after.

Thanks,

Do you know if the power trim and tilt mechanisms suffer with age or are these fairly bulletproof also?

[myusernam]

The 3 cyl lightning is a Rebadged Tohatsu 50 (downrated) and a top motor - probably the best 2 stroke in that size class and 3 cyls are much smoother. But your boat is on the smaller side for the 40hp, and the 2 cyl is much lighter according to your specs (could the lightning figure be wrong?) I think you would have a better boat with less weight on the transom.

[up the creek]

Thanks,

This was one of the things I have been weighing up, I do a far bit of trolling for lizards and thought the 3 cylinder would be smoother.

Also as I have been struggling with getting on the plane loaded with the 30 I thought the bigger cubic capacity of the 3 cylinder would help with hole shot, from what I understand they have more torque than the 2 cylinder.

It is a shame the 3 cylinder is the older of the two, although it looks tidy and I guess the money I save on it compared to the 2013 is insurance for possible maintenance.

it may have a little more torque, but if your struggling with the 30 u have and going to a 3cyl its still only 30hp so higher ccs dont do much without more hp. i think they call it power to torque.. get a 3cyl if u must but id go to a 40hp,, then if you are fully loaded u got extra, power and torque.

[up the creek]

agree with userman.. and saying never had trouble usually means it didnt blow up... but the 3 cyl has 3 carbys.. and keeping them all perfectly sinked is a hassle and costly at the mechanic, yes they are smoother, and u may get a little more torque, but even if they dont go out of sink its still 3 carbys to tune, meaning higher servicing costs,, and as ally says for trolling the 3cyl is smoother and less plug oiling problems. if you want to just hoon around the 2cyl will go great, and less costs keeping it tuned with 1 carb...

[Daniel Boone]

The 3 cyl lightning is a Rebadged Tohatsu 50 (downrated) and a top motor - probably the best 2 stroke in that size class and 3 cyls are much smoother. But your boat is on the smaller side for the 40hp, and the 2 cyl is much lighter according to your specs (could the lightning figure be wrong?) I think you would have a better boat with less weight on the transom.

Thanks,

The weight on my transom should be fine with either as it is rated to 110kg, the current model of my boat is actually rated 30-50hp. I think a 50 would be overkill, I currently cruise at 18 knots and max out at 22 knots with the 30hp. It is a heavy hull 360kg, 3mm bottom and sides has a 120ltr live well, Minn Kota and 37kg battery.

The 3 cylinder really does sound like the best option, if no one mentions any bad experiences with it I think I will go that way. There was some stuff I found about water leaking through gaskets into the cylinders but hopefully this was a one off and not a common problem for them.

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[Daniel Boone]

it may have a little more torque, but if your struggling with the 30 u have and going to a 3cyl its still only 30hp so higher ccs dont do much without more hp. i think they call it power to torque.. get a 3cyl if u must but id go to a 40hp,, then if you are fully loaded u got extra, power and torque.

Both the motors I am looking at are 40hp, one is a 2 cylinder and the other is a 3 cylinder.

[Daniel Boone]

agree with userman.. and saying never had trouble usually means it didnt blow up... but the 3 cyl has 3 carbys.. and keeping them all perfectly sinked is a hassle and costly at the mechanic, yes they are smoother, and u may get a little more torque, but even if they dont go out of sink its still 3 carbys to tune, meaning higher servicing costs,, and as ally says for trolling the 3cyl is smoother and less plug oiling problems. if you want to just hoon around the 2cyl will go great, and less costs keeping it tuned with 1 carb...

Good points re the 3 cylinder tuning, I hadn't considered that I will look into it.

Thanks

[up the creek]

Good points re the 3 cylinder tuning, I hadn't considered that I will look into it.

Thanks


if you got a btt of money to tune it a little more then a single carb engine. then id go the 3cyl as it is a smoother engine,, but the 2cyl option due to limited funds is what i run and i love my motor even if its not s smooth.. you got a bit to consider.. :)

[ericcs]

go the 3cyl, once the carbs are synched, they shouldn't mysteriously un synch, unless something loosens. I is not a difficult job to do if you have some skills, you tube is your friend.
also. If as you say, you do a bit of trolling, it will be much smoother!

[Ally410]

Thanks,

Do you know if the power trim and tilt mechanisms suffer with age or are these fairly bulletproof also?

I've currently got a '96 Evinrude 70hp, it's very similar in basic attributes to the 3 cyl Merc you're considering (3 cyl, 3 carb with power trim and tilt). After I got it and following a light overhaul of the tilt and trim mechanism (resulting in replacing one bush spring in the motor), and stripping and cleaning the carbs, for an engine of this age both the t&t and the carbs are in excellent condition, as in no visible wear from what they should look like new.

My assumption based on my experience (and it's only my experience mind you), is that like anything maintenance is critical. In terms of the trim and tilt, proper flushing with fresh water, bit of WD40 on the rams from time to time and greasing the pins every now and then (along with checking the hydraulic fluid level) should set you up for a very long component life. The carbs are even simpler in my opinion, keeping them clean I find easiest by making sure I run all the fuel out of the float bowls after each use (i.e. at the end of a weekend away, not every day) works wonders in limiting varnishing/oil deposit buildup in the galleries which inevitably causes problems.

In terms of tuning the carbs, after checking the needles and seats and setting the needles to their factory settings, I find the carbs were very easy to tune, almost set and forget from that point as the butterflys are interconnected meaning they operate collectively rather than individually, also it's not like you're changing altitude and playing havoc with the mixture requirements. That said, i'm no mechanic but the engine starts and idles perfectly first time everytime, has ample power and is generally a pleasure to use, can't ask for much more than that.

My father has a 1986 evinrude V4 90hp he's had from new, I learnt maintenance from him as I've described above, he's just replaced the starter motor, other than that in 31 years he's only had to change the water pump which is routine maintenance.

My thoughts: if the 3 cyl looks like it's been looked after, trims up and down smoothly (no nasty sounds coming from the tilt unit e.g. pump cavitation), and it starts and runs reliably, I would be going that way. Whilst it will be noticeable, I don't think the additional weight will be a significantly detrimental factor on your boat, given your low speed trolling requirements I think the smoothness and ease of use of the 3 cyl would outweigh any negatives in this regard.

If you choose to go the other way I think you'll still be very happy, similar to up the creek, I had the 30hp Yamaha CV 2 cyl single carby for 17 years as I mentioned and absolutely loved it.

[VictorOscar]

Hey Dan,

I have a 427 Clark Pursuit with the 40hp Jap Merc (also known as the 3 cyl. re-badged Tohatsu) and it has plenty of torque.

I am still wearing mine in and will imagine it will still get a bit better.

Let me know if you have any questions!

[up the creek]

as victoroscar says. it comes down to whats best suited to what u want,, and as i see it (and just a thought could be wrong.. ) u can go the 2cylinder with 1 carb and more then tuning costs, you get a lighter motor easily started and dont need lots extra for tilt and elec start.. but if you got the cash for all the 3cylinder needs then yes way smoother engine..

[Daniel Boone]

Thanks to everyone for their reply's.

I picked a motor Saturday and traded mine in, I ended up choosing the newer 2 cylinder due to condition and age, they through in 12 months warranty too. The only catch with it was I had to re-splice the key switch cable as it had to be cut to be removed from the boat.

I tested the motor today and it went really well. The boat cruised across Morton Bay from Scarborough to Bribie Island doing 20 knots at 4200rpm in good conditions. I filled the livewell adding another 120kg and it still traveled well, maybe 19 knots for the 4200rpm. The boat rides really well through the chop with the extra livewell weight up front.

So differences from the 30 to the 40, top speed went from 22 knots to 24 knots and the cruising speed went from 18 knots at 4800 rpm to 19/20 at 4200 rpm. It appears so far the drop in cruising revs has made a positive difference to the fuel economy, it should make a difference to the longevity of the motor also.

My longest run was about 30 mins and I didn't feel any uncomfortable vibration. I haven't tested it trolling as yet though the idle seems smooth enough to me, and it doesn't seem to foul up with oil while idling on the muffs. The old 30 pre-mix used to start pumping milky white gunk from the exhaust after 8 mins on the muffs and the new one doesn't, do they lower the mix rate in these based on rpm?

Oh and I even managed to drown a few prawns and bring a dozen winter whiting home for dinner in between all the cruising about.

Cheers Dan

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[Daniel Boone]

Hey Dan,

I have a 427 Clark Pursuit with the 40hp Jap Merc (also known as the 3 cyl. re-badged Tohatsu) and it has plenty of torque.

I am still wearing mine in and will imagine it will still get a bit better.

Let me know if you have any questions!

Hi VictorOscar,

What top speed and cruising speeds do you get in the pursuit, solo and with load?

Cheers Dan

[up the creek]

glad your happy with your decision, and now all the finding the right engine stuff is over, you can as you say, catch some fish, cruise and have some fun. :)

[VictorOscar]

Hi VictorOscar,

What top speed and cruising speeds do you get in the pursuit, solo and with load?

Cheers Dan

Hey Dan,

Solo, top speed is about 30 knots (can get 31 if I am going with tide and wind) and I can get the boat to cruise between 16 and 20 knots depending on conditions.

I don't have a tacho so I couldn't accurately give you the stats but I feel that cruising would be between 3500 and 4500, while flat strap would be 5,500 or so.

Adding extra people usually takes 1-3 knots off those figures.

Glad to hear you're happy with the upgrade, roughly how much did it cost?

[Daniel Boone]

Hey Dan,

Solo, top speed is about 30 knots (can get 31 if I am going with tide and wind) and I can get the boat to cruise between 16 and 20 knots depending on conditions.

I don't have a tacho so I couldn't accurately give you the stats but I feel that cruising would be between 3500 and 4500, while flat strap would be 5,500 or so.

Adding extra people usually takes 1-3 knots off those figures.

Glad to hear you're happy with the upgrade, roughly how much did it cost?

Hi VictorOscar,

Wow your boat flies! I'm not getting max RPM out of mine, I'm currently getting 5100 rpm so could go possibly 600 rpm more. It appears the open throttle position is being limited by an adjustable screw so I will have a play and open it up a bit. I'll take a photo of the linkage and screw tonight. I'm not going to worry about re-propping it if the throttle adjustment doesn't work as I'm happy enough to cruise at 20 knots.

My idle is also high, currently 1000 rpm so I will try to lower this to 700-800 rpm.

I don't think I will be getting to your speeds as my boat as quite heavy.

I got the motor for $2950 with 12 months warranty it is a 2013 model, the other motor was a 2006 3 cylinder for $1750.

Cheers Dan

[VictorOscar]

Hi VictorOscar,

Wow your boat flies! I'm not getting max RPM out of mine, I'm currently getting 5100 rpm so could go possibly 600 rpm more. It appears the open throttle position is being limited by an adjustable screw so I will have a play and open it up a bit. I'll take a photo of the linkage and screw tonight. I'm not going to worry about re-propping it if the throttle adjustment doesn't work as I'm happy enough to cruise at 20 knots.

My idle is also high, currently 1000 rpm so I will try to lower this to 700-800 rpm.

I don't think I will be getting to your speeds as my boat as quite heavy.

I got the motor for $2950 with 12 months warranty it is a 2013 model, the other motor was a 2006 3 cylinder for $1750.

Cheers Dan

Worth while checking that out and probably worth while getting someone to give it a tune up or at least get a quote.

Mine only cost $50.

When you move the throttle position, it may change the timing, the oil mixing, the carby balance etc.

That sounds like a great deal mate!