Plate boat research frustration

[jclay1773]

Hi all, as seen in my other thread I'm selling my glass boat to go plate.

Now I have looked at Vindicator, Rebel and Performance Plate, getting quotes from all 3 and visiting 2 factories. I plan to visit the 3rd factory next wk. I was always under the impression that a plate boat should have full bulkheads (I think that is what they are called) and longitudinal stringers. 2 of the 3 builders do not do full bulkheads. So are these boats going to stand the test of time? I want a boat that is going to be around in many yrs to come.

Would love to hear from people who have had plate boats built and what was the sub floor structure like.

Thanks for any info.

[hungry6]

That what cheap pricing bring you.
Have you asked them to accomodate full length bulkhead in their construction.
I could say try Moda, but that probably give you more griefs then solution, as they do full lenght BH, but the word on the grape vine is that he is 3+ years out on build wait and well over $100k entry point.
To be honest, I did this exact excercise 2 years ago and visited a few boat builders. Performance plate boat is your best bet atm, unless you want to deal with Moda and wait.
I'm just lucky that the 2 commodities which stop many people I have plenty of.
If you're on the northside and want to look at a reasonable plate, let me know

Happy hunting...

Wayne

[tropicrows]

Have you considered Riptide boats

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[Out-Station]

Jcaly, for me, most of the big name platey's have stood the test of time I think. The likes of Riptide, Performance Plate, AMM, OMM, Vindicator, Moda and others that have been around for a good while now. Design wise they have their various differences but overall I think they have stood the test of time and have the bugs sorted out. Whats interesting is that within the various big name brands there are shapes and designs that have marine architecture and engineering in their pedigree whilst there are others that have been the product of ongoing adaptations and development of an original design by the builder. There is no doubt that both approaches have worked when you look at the products out there in the popular brands. If your concerned about strength maybe you could attack it from the angle of determining if the design has certified engineering behind it? Just an idea.
Note: I own a Riptide, 12 years old, I have no hesitation in saying that structurally it is as good as the day it rolled out of the shed. Trouble is you will wait aloooong time to get one built (like 2 or 3 years).
Scott

[Any_Weather]

I’ll second the Riptide recommendation 116710


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[TruBlue]

I had an AMM built about 5 years back
Excellent service solid with a great finish n sold it when I wanted for what I asked quickly


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[Danstu]

More than happy for you to have a look at a rebel if you would like. Mines the 7.1 Classic. Just finished it before Christmas. I know when I was deciding its hard because there isn't always boats that are available to go for a run in.

[Chris Tucker]

Whether a boat is glass or plate your ride will be directly proportional to weight. If builders have shaved weight out of the internal structure to save money they have probably also shaved it out of skins as well. The result is a boat that will live up to all the bad things you’ve heard about plate boat ride. Keep shopping.

Things to avoid:
1. Lightweight boats-> will bounce around and vibrate.
2. Low dead rise boats unless your doing a lot of shallow water fishing. -> will slam in waves.
3. Boats that have increased deadrise by fitting massively wide chines. -> The flat chines will more than offset the advantage of the high dead rise.
4. And this one might cause some people to bite. Constant deadrise hulls. Even if it has a high transom deadrise a constant deadrise hull will by definition have a blunter now making it less likely to cut through waves. Constant deadrise hulls again by definition have flat buttock lines which means they will run bow high when accelerating.
5. Boats that have a lot of folded or pressed components in the hull skins. 5083 aluminium is very hard. It can be pressed around a radius but it is weakened when you do. Sharp pressed corners mean it’s not 5083.
6. Builders who aren’t willing to sell you an unpainted Ali boat. If they won’t sell you a bare metal boat they must be relying on bog and fill to cover building issues.
7. Boats that use “air tank” buoyancy. It is impossible to weld an airtight closed box and what happens if the keeping it airtight in the event of a collision or incident is even harder. Foam is your friend in small plate boats.
8. Having said above. Avoid boats with poured foam. It breaks down over time and makes repairs difficult.

[Smithy]

I'd suss Shane out from Moda on price and build time. He is in that industrial estate at Clontarf where all the boating stuff is in Redcliffe. Best hear it direct from his mouth. Also check out Ralf from Compass boats and Seadex I reckon. I saw a nice design from the bloke from Tuff Tubs last night on Bookface for a 6m CC as well. He is punching a few out for the gun estuary guys of SEQ. I like the work Paul Jacobsen is doing at Hervey Bay with the Specmar designs. If you go with an out of town builder like Pauly or Col from Svenson boats in Mackay, you have to weigh up the not being able to see it getting built factor and that is point of a custom platey as far as I am concerned. Then you are back to Rebel, Performance, Compass, Seadex etc without the big wait times. If not go 2nd hand. Why not another glass boat?

[robcam]

Hi all, as seen in my other thread I'm selling my glass boat to go plate.

Now I have looked at Vindicator, Rebel and Performance Plate, getting quotes from all 3 and visiting 2 factories. I plan to visit the 3rd factory next wk. I was always under the impression that a plate boat should have full bulkheads (I think that is what they are called) and longitudinal stringers. 2 of the 3 builders do not do full bulkheads. So are these boats going to stand the test of time? I want a boat that is going to be around in many yrs to come.

Would love to hear from people who have had plate boats built and what was the sub floor structure like.

Thanks for any info.

jclay, one to include in your research is Iconic Boats at Sandgate. Speak to Chris Gallagher, 0475 311 447, the guy is a one man show with a lot of experience in plate alloy boat building. No matter who you end up going with you`ll do yourself a favor having a discussion with Chris.I built a boat with him about a year ago, the build thread is on here somewhere if you search.I couldn`t be happier with the process or the boat.......Rob.
.

[Dignity]

I think Mojoes is considering selling his platey as he wants a bigger Noosa Cat, drop him a PM, his boat is fully fitted out.

[jclay1773]

Thanks all.

Haven't looked at AMM, Moda and Riptide because of their price. The 5.8m Vindicator is $96k so it is expensive also.

About 8 yrs ago I was going through this exact same exercise when the Haines Sig came up for sale so I grabbed it. Always wanted a plate boat and I'm ready to get one now. Want to deck it out with big tank 350lts, kill tanks, fresh water deck wash, solar on hard top etc. If I was going to go glass again I would either keep my Sig or get another Sig as it has been a great boat.

[tropicrows]

Their is a reason why those boats are not cheap. You get what you pay for. A quality build that will last the test of time.

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[Any_Weather]

Jclay, have you actually had a quote from Riptide? I think you may be surprised at how competitive they are? I went through this same situation 5 years ago and the vindicator boats were also high on my list. With the “optional extras” that they wanted big dollars for, the Riptide boys just accommodate in the build for either very little or even no extra. It would be worth a visit to them if the wait is not an issue


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[ranmar850]

Sounds like it would be a damn sight cheaper to do some mods to the Sig--you can fit all the "customisations" you like to the platey, and it will never ride as well.

[Smithy]

Sounds like you need to keep shopping, Compass, Seaadex, Iconic, Tuff Tubs etc in Brisbane, PJM Industries at Hervey Bay and then Svenson Boats at Mackay.

[jclay1773]

Spoke to Riptide on the phone, not sure I can do the big wait. Have planned a ride in the seaadex and have spoken to Ralph at compass. Plan to visit him shortly. Col makes a great boat but I couldn't hand my money over.

[Chris Tucker]

Since you appear to be focusing on qld builders to to Gerard at Hammerhead boats as well.

[Moejoes]

Hi Jclay,
This 8 meter platey is up for grabs.
PM me for full spec's if interested.

116727116728116729116730116731

Cheers Rob.

[Cav(J.C.)]

I'm bound to get into trouble for this, but I found trying to buy a plate boat to my specs. so frustrating, I gave up.
This was about seven years ago, and it sounds like nothing has changed.
All I wanted was a centre console long boat for offshore fishing.
I had experience of these in the Islands. They were self draining, soft riding, extremely economical, unsinkable with ample floatation, and able to take a hammering. Definitely not show ponies, or able to win "best looking' but had workboat functionality.

I got sick of being told I was a d'head---"come to my factory, and I'll show you what a REAL boat looks like" It didn't matter that I had the money for them to build what I wanted. These "boat builders" didn't even ask.
I ended up buying a 28 ft. longboat out of the Philippines. A bit fancy, and fibreglass, but the boat builder quoted on everything I wanted without question, it arrived at the marina, onto the travel lift, turn the key, and drive it home.
It is economical at any speed, sea kindly, and easy to handle by an old man who mainly fishes on his own. Getting onto eight years old now, has some cosmetic cracks in the glass---here and there, but still structurally sound.
If the wait is too long, if you are treated like you are not a valued client, then look at going off shore.
John Cav.

[Moonlighter]

I'm bound to get into trouble for this, but I found trying to buy a plate boat to my specs. so frustrating, I gave up.
This was about seven years ago, and it sounds like nothing has changed.
All I wanted was a centre console long boat for offshore fishing.
I had experience of these in the Islands. They were self draining, soft riding, extremely economical, unsinkable with ample floatation, and able to take a hammering. Definitely not show ponies, or able to win "best looking' but had workboat functionality.

I got sick of being told I was a d'head---"come to my factory, and I'll show you what a REAL boat looks like" It didn't matter that I had the money for them to build what I wanted. These "boat builders" didn't even ask.
I ended up buying a 28 ft. longboat out of the Philippines. A bit fancy, and fibreglass, but the boat builder quoted on everything I wanted without question, it arrived at the marina, onto the travel lift, turn the key, and drive it home.
It is economical at any speed, sea kindly, and easy to handle by an old man who mainly fishes on his own. Getting onto eight years old now, has some cosmetic cracks in the glass---here and there, but still structurally sound.
If the wait is too long, if you are treated like you are not a valued client, then look at going off shore.
John Cav.


Did you look at these? Been to the factory and they are very impressive.

http://aluminiumlongboats.com/

To the OP, there is another, arguably better option than going with the smaller local platey builders.

Just get a Surtees.

They will customise, to a fair extent, and you are getting a proven boat from a serious manufacturer that will be there tomorrow, next year and the year after.

And the other critical risk factors are far less -
- risk of losing for your deposit is negligible
- less uncertainty with progress payments along the way
- risk of incomplete job is zero - compared to what happens if something happens to the principal of smaller manufacturers?
- risk of manufacturing defects is negligible due to quality assured process
- all key options can be factory installed vs dealer installed

Just something to consider....

[Cav(J.C.)]

Had a look at the Aluminium Long Boat site.
Wish they had been around when I was in the market.
John Cav.

[catshark]

alluminium long boat looks real good, might be a hassle keeping the trailers up to them unless going alloy too.

[Moonlighter]

alluminium long boat looks real good, might be a hassle keeping the trailers up to them unless going alloy too.

If you want, they build alloy trailers to go with them, very well built too.

[Heliduck]

To the OP, there is another, arguably better option than going with the smaller local platey builders.

Just get a Surtees.

They will customise, to a fair extent, and you are getting a proven boat from a serious manufacturer that will be there tomorrow, next year and the year after.

And the other critical risk factors are far less -
- risk of losing for your deposit is negligible
- less uncertainty with progress payments along the way
- risk of incomplete job is zero - compared to what happens if something happens to the principal of smaller manufacturers?
- risk of manufacturing defects is negligible due to quality assured process
- all key options can be factory installed vs dealer installed

Just something to consider....

Some good points there, I have a mate who considered Origin but went with AMM, he would have lost a lot of coin had he gone with Origin who we all thought were a sure bet.

I've been looking at 7 metre plus plate boats for 15 years & owned a few smaller boats in that time. Everything I wanted I couldn't afford & everything I could afford I didn't want. I have quotes from nearly every reputable boat builder in the country (except Performance Plate boats, I spoke to him on the phone but he was too busy to quote!!) & I spec'ed all the quotes as closely as I could for comparison. I found the kiwi boats bloody expensive, & mostly supplied on a bolt together trailer or pay extra. I don't like bolt together trailers. I wasn't looking for a fish killing machine, I love fishing but I need to be diving, overnighting & partaking in bickies & cheese as well. Too much money involved to have a 1 trick pony.
- I loved the Stabicraft 2400 but there's a lot of wasted space under the kill tank in the new game chaser transom.
- Surtees & Barcrusher have a tiny cabin, & living in a cold area I need some protection, just as expensive as the Stabi but I wouldn't buy 1 even if it was cheap due to the cabin layout, even the 7.5 I couldn't turn around in the cabin if I had a boner. Good mass production boats otherwise.
- White pointer NZ, now there's a nice boat. You'll find a wobbly weld on a stabicraft occasionally but you would be hard pressed to find 1 on a white pointer. I would buy 1 of these in a heartbeat, but again you pay for it.
- Sailfish S7/S8 were a serious contender & I've crawled over them the most, they have a basic cabin trim which could be improved. I always wanted a Cat & they know there cats, couldn't go wrong there I don't think.
- I priced a Moda Cat which blew the budget away, having said that I think their finished product is worth every cent, it's just that I don't have the cents. Moda boats would give a jellyfish a horn., not an "agricultural" boat like the Sailfish.
- Extreme look a little "mass produced" for me & I don't like the seats welded to the sides like they are & they're priced right up there with the best of them.
- For the monohulls, Razerline & AMM were my pick, I love the lines on the Razerline & it's nearly impossible to distinguish between the 2 on product quality. I use reverse psychology on boat quality, the less you see advertised for sale the better the boat is & not often you see a Razerline or AMM, when you do you had better be quick!! An AMM for sale is almost unheard of most of the time. I considered the AMM to be more price competitive as well, & they have been a very stable company for many decades. I could get a boat built to my spec from AMM cheaper than I could get an off the rack boat from NZ.


To the money shot - If I was going to buy a boat I'd get a Sailfish or an AMM depending on how many feet you want in the water, but I'm so bloody fussy that I decided to design & build my own 6.8 metre Cat. I'm a tradesman with lots of welding experience so I'm a bit further ahead than some people & I worked with Plate Alloy Australia to design my perfect rig. The CAD file is done, the shed is built so all I need now is a bit of time & I'm into it. Let's hope I'm not back on here in a few years time with a half finished boat, no doubt the country is littered with them.

[Dignity]

Heliduck, you need to talk to Mojoes, he knows the joys and pains of what your doing very well. One of the nicest plates I've ever been on.

[ranmar850]

Some good points there, I have a mate who considered Origin but went with AMM, he would have lost a lot of coin had he gone with Origin who we all thought were a sure bet.

I've been looking at 7 metre plus plate boats for 15 years & owned a few smaller boats in that time. Everything I wanted I couldn't afford & everything I could afford I didn't want. I have quotes from nearly every reputable boat builder in the country (except Performance Plate boats, I spoke to him on the phone but he was too busy to quote!!) & I spec'ed all the quotes as closely as I could for comparison. I found the kiwi boats bloody expensive, & mostly supplied on a bolt together trailer or pay extra. I don't like bolt together trailers. I wasn't looking for a fish killing machine, I love fishing but I need to be diving, overnighting & partaking in bickies & cheese as well. Too much money involved to have a 1 trick pony.
- I loved the Stabicraft 2400 but there's a lot of wasted space under the kill tank in the new game chaser transom.
- Surtees & Barcrusher have a tiny cabin, & living in a cold area I need some protection, just as expensive as the Stabi but I wouldn't buy 1 even if it was cheap due to the cabin layout, even the 7.5 I couldn't turn around in the cabin if I had a boner. Good mass production boats otherwise.
- White pointer NZ, now there's a nice boat. You'll find a wobbly weld on a stabicraft occasionally but you would be hard pressed to find 1 on a white pointer. I would buy 1 of these in a heartbeat, but again you pay for it.
- Sailfish S7/S8 were a serious contender & I've crawled over them the most, they have a basic cabin trim which could be improved. I always wanted a Cat & they know there cats, couldn't go wrong there I don't think.
- I priced a Moda Cat which blew the budget away, having said that I think their finished product is worth every cent, it's just that I don't have the cents. Moda boats would give a jellyfish a horn., not an "agricultural" boat like the Sailfish.
- Extreme look a little "mass produced" for me & I don't like the seats welded to the sides like they are & they're priced right up there with the best of them.
- For the monohulls, Razerline & AMM were my pick, I love the lines on the Razerline & it's nearly impossible to distinguish between the 2 on product quality. I use reverse psychology on boat quality, the less you see advertised for sale the better the boat is & not often you see a Razerline or AMM, when you do you had better be quick!! An AMM for sale is almost unheard of most of the time. I considered the AMM to be more price competitive as well, & they have been a very stable company for many decades. I could get a boat built to my spec from AMM cheaper than I could get an off the rack boat from NZ.


To the money shot - If I was going to buy a boat I'd get a Sailfish or an AMM depending on how many feet you want in the water, but I'm so bloody fussy that I decided to design & build my own 6.8 metre Cat. I'm a tradesman with lots of welding experience so I'm a bit further ahead than some people & I worked with Plate Alloy Australia to design my perfect rig. The CAD file is done, the shed is built so all I need now is a bit of time & I'm into it. Let's hope I'm not back on here in a few years time with a half finished boat, no doubt the country is littered with them.

I really don't know why everyone is obsessed with big plateys. I've spent plenty of time on plate boats--up to 50ft, thanks for asking, yes, I owned it,that one did ride well-- For a lot less than the sort of money these people are asking, you could put together a brand new 23 ft Caribbean which will absolutely murder any plate boat for ride and match the best for stability. and with guaranteed resale. Personally, I think a lot of people just assume that top line glass is too expensive--they get that by looking at the eye-watering prices that CC charge for the bigger hulls and are just put off. I know someone that recently splashed out on a 685 Explorer--$185k out the door, thanks. Yes, I know that they are well outfitted, all the nice touches, but there are boats equally as good for a lot less.People push the "customisation " angle--just what is it you want, that you can't get in a large glass boat? With any kind of thing that moves with an engine, be wary of "personalizing" it too much--you may think that it's what you really want at the time, but, in retrospect, all you have done is narrow the appeal when it comes time to resell. Your "really good little idea" ( that cost you thousands) may end up being a prospective buyers "WTF was he thinking" item.::)

[Cav(J.C.)]

Congratulations on doing your research and having a go.
I went through a similar experience a few years ago whereby I wanted a 40 ft. diesel powered cat.
I had done most of the engineering installations on production boats on the Gold Coast from about late 1970, and the problem they had with cats was, they wanted to scale up the underwater design from 20 ft. to 40 and above. This just didn't work because the hulls were a skinny deep vee, planning design which left the props and rudders hanging down below and subject to damage, and the boats just bogged down, which the "designers' tried to fix by just adding trim tabs, more horse power, bigger and heavier engines, larger fuel tanks, with corresponding loss of efficiency.
I did my research, built a model, did my own version of a tank test with video, did drawings and contracted a great Kiwi boat builder to do hull deck and wheelhouse, whilst I did the engineering.
The result was a 40 ft. by 17 ft. cat which topped out at 23 knots, cruised at 18, with two 160 H.P. turbo Fiat diesels. I could drive it onto sand with no underwater damage. (Most probably pissed and excited). but the main expectation of a boat ---like a wife--it has to be forgiving. I used the same amount of fuel on a fishing day out to the shelf on the Gold Coast, as I used to use with a 20ft. boat with a 175 Evinrude.
The production boats were using over 400H.P. a side-----over 800 H.P to achieve this, and the wash was so great they were a menace to anyone nearby.
SO-----a couple of tips, if I may.
It is easier to build a hard chine, no curve boat in plate than it is just to lay the plate over straight beams and bulkheads, but the results will be less than pleasing. Curvature gives strength, and prevents hammering. Hammering is bloody tedious, and puts strain on welds and connections, and severely restricts the life of a vessel----especially in alloy. Compensation built in to provide extra strength, costs more, and increases weight. In cat design, light weight is everything. Any good designer of sailing cats would agree.
Engine driven cats do not need planning hulls. With cats it is the length to beam ratio (block co-efficient) which makes the thing work. They should be driven through the water instead of over it, with just enough lift in the bow to be able to take a breaking wave head on, without slamming. This is achieved by making the wing (connection between the two hulls) high enough, and of an above water shape that buoyancy is increased exponentially as the water comes closer to the wing.
There is far more can be said on that subject, but you should have the idea.
Lastly---the most important part of underwater design is not how the bow proceeds through the water, but how the stern leaves it. There should be clear water left behind the hull at any speed. Any curling of great froth is water holding you back, and fuel being used to create this turbulence. Do NOT CONTEMPLATE having a deep vee or any kind of vee at the stern. It is difficult to describe a hull which will give you shallow draft, soft ride, efficiency, and prop. protection.
I have photographs of a design which you may find of use or wish to modify to suit your purposes.
If you are too far gone in your project, just ignore.
Best wishes,
Cav(J.C.)

[ranmar850]

Good dissertation. I often look at these supposedly legendary gamefishing hulls in action at speed and all I see is a massive mounded wake sitting higher than the transom, and a bow waving in the air. AND using massive HP to do it. Bloody awful.
This is the only picture underway I have of my last commercial boat, a 50ft Image. 700HP volvo single installation. Most of the wake you can see behind belongs to the 65ft twin screwed boat I am passing. Cruised between 18 and 19 knots @400rpm under max. A heavy fitout with a large amount of underdeck live tanks, pumps and a 20 kva genset. Likely I had at least 2 tonne of water in the forward tanks at the time.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Purely-fishing/i-s3FDcKP/0/701cdeab/XL/Ross%20B%20004-XL.jpg

[Heliduck]

One of the nicest plates I've ever been on.

I figured that no-one is going to pay as much attention to detail on my boat as I will, so I'm hoping for a superior result as well.

[Heliduck]

I really don't know why everyone is obsessed with big plateys.
I haven't considered ride quality, price, looks or resale value when deciding on plate alloy. My initial interest in plate alloy came from living most of life in FNQ where I would drive it up onto a beach, drag it across a rock bar at low tide, bump into a coral bomby occasionally while maneuvering in shallow water & spend low tide stranded high & dry while camping out waiting for tomorrow. I have no experience with glass, but I am very confident that I don't want to be sanding down & repairing gel coat where it has been torn to pieces with this activity. In recent years I have maintained my focus on plate for exactly the reasons you quoted, I can cut/shut/weld/paint/recut/reweld & repaint a plate boat myself in the shed to my hearts content. I am not interested in working with fiberglass etc., so I don't.

[Dignity]

I figured that no-one is going to pay as much attention to detail on my boat as I will, so I'm hoping for a superior result as well.

Or you could just buy it, he is in the stages of selling it, if my missus would let me I'd be doing it myself.

[ranmar850]

Yes, that is the one and only advantage. The use wasn't specified, so I was assuming it was more generalised fishing. I certainly would have one if i had to do that. You certainly become more cautious around obstacles at low speed with 'glass.
But there are plenty out there that will never give it that kind of use, and they still seem obsessed with big plate boats as the ultimate fishing platform. There wouldn't be a plate boat under 7 metres that could anywhere near what an equivilant glass boat could offer for ride. Over that, you can start to get some good shape into a hull.

[Heliduck]

Or you could just buy it

Defeats the purpose a bit, I have been told by some very wise people that you shouldn't build a boat so that you have a boat, you should build a boat because you want to build a boat. I'm looking forward to the building part just as much as the boating part.

[Dignity]

Defeats the purpose a bit, I have been told by some very wise people that you shouldn't build a boat so that you have a boat, you should build a boat because you want to build a boat. I'm looking forward to the building part just as much as the boating part.

You've been watching too much NCIS, don't build it in the basement. Good luck on your endeavours.

[myusernam]

Yes I agree with everything said about plate above and have never been overly impressed or excited by them and now I own one! I think one advantage not stated is you can get more boat if you are approaching legal max for trailering. Glass tops out legal weight probably 1.5 Meters earlier