Steering cable replacement

[skifalls]

Ok well hasn’t been a good week, after spending some time troubleshooting my electrical issue I thought with the great weather I’d head out for a quick session and perform some tests while on the water and the live well pump was going.

Anyway, hit the ramp and found just before the launch steering has seazed, despite a call to where I get the engine serviced and some advise couldn’t get it to budge.

The boat is a 2012 Evo 500 cuddy with Evinrude 115ho engine, standard steering cable and not hydraulic.

I’m speaking with the service place they mentioned the engine needs to come off to replace the cable, can anyone confirm this is the case. If not so thought this was something I could give a crack myself being on holidays and already in trouble spending too much on fishing gear for Boxing Day sales.

Cheers,
Mat


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[scottar]

Do yourself a favour. If you can swing the cash, ditch it for hydraulic. Regarding the replacement, depends on whether there is room to pull the cable out of the tilt tube. If there is, the engine can stay on.

[skifalls]

Thanks Scottar, yeah I know hydraulic is going to be much nicer to use and drive, just not the right time for the added cost as it’s service is also due.


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[scottar]

Got a photo of the area where the cable enters the tilt tube - not too close so we can see what is around it?

[Dignity]

Thanks Scottar, yeah I know hydraulic is going to be much nicer to use and drive, just not the right time for the added cost as it’s service is also due.


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What size boat, I have a Teleflex that came out of a 19foot half cabin you can have in perfect working order. You shouldn't need to remove the motor, the only one I had trouble with was a 14ft 6 inch Cruise Craft Rustler but still got it out without touching the motor.

[skifalls]

5.0 meter boat mate, 2012 Evolution 500


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[sjp2]

i did that ,went hydraulic when the cable casing split and started rusting but even though it looks neater ,with the expense and hassle i don't think it was worth it also i think i have more turns on the wheel lock to lock , stick to cable . also more maintenance.

[Dignity]

OK, mine might be a bit long for your boat, you should be able to get a new replacement under $200. I'd have to check but we did Funchy's last year for a little less than that. Don't be afraid to use a bit of force to get it out. PM me if you wish, I'm happy to help you, I'm on the Sunshine Coast if your not too far away. Tomorrow is out as I pick up my boat with pod mods.

[Dignity]

i did that ,went hydraulic when the cable casing split and started rusting but even though it looks neater ,with the expense and hassle i don't think it was worth it also i think i have more turns on the wheel lock to lock , stick to cable . also more maintenance.

Yes, when i changed i had one extra turn or just a little less in each direction, a little peeved about it but a lot less hassle in the end. Must buy one of those knobs you can stick on the wheel which allows an easy single handed use. Not sure where the extra maintenance comes from though, I check the oil level when the motor gets serviced and that's it.

[scottar]

What size boat, I have a Teleflex that came out of a 19foot half cabin you can have in perfect working order. You shouldn't need to remove the motor, the only one I had trouble with was a 14ft 6 inch Cruise Craft Rustler but still got it out without touching the motor.

Depends on where the engine is sitting and if there is a well. We chipped the glass on my BIL's CC625 trying to get the cable out without at least lifting the engine.

[Fed]

Disconnect the cable from the motor to see if the cable is seized or the motor swivel is seized.
If it is the cable they usually seize in the tilt tube and can be freed up.
If it's seized in the motor swivel pin work the motor side to side by hand using the back of the AV plate & get your grease gun on it.

[dnej]

I have freed up a seized cable,by working the motor itself, and squirting wd 40 as I went. How long has it been seized? They normally get stiffer before they seize completely..
Now each time I go past the motor, I move it from side to side.
David

[billfisher]

I have freed up a seized cable,by working the motor itself, and squirting wd 40 as I went. How long has it been seized? They normally get stiffer before they seize completely..
Now each time I go past the motor, I move it from side to side.
David

White lithium grease is a much better lubricant. Though I can see why you might want to use a penetrating oil like WD40 if it has already seized.

[billfisher]

i did that ,went hydraulic when the cable casing split and started rusting but even though it looks neater ,with the expense and hassle i don't think it was worth it also i think i have more turns on the wheel lock to lock , stick to cable . also more maintenance.

I'm not sure about the less maintenance bit. In my experience cable steering doesn't last too long before the cable rusts, breaks or seizes up. I saw the light and went hydraulic which is far more durable. It has other advantages like ease of turning and will track straight with your hands off the steering wheel and is compatible with autopilot systems. Cables are cheap but if you are paying someone to fit them the labour costs means hydraulic will probably pay for itself over a long time. Also it's not much fun having your steering break out at sea or on a bar.

[dnej]

who specialises in fitting hydraulic steering in the Brisbane area.?
David

[sjp2]

all points taken onboard ,will pickup a steering knob tomorrow ,all they have are stainless ones so hopefully it wont get too hot in the sun .
a thought that has been nagging me is how much steering control do you have if one of the hydraulic hose ruptures or blows off when traveling ,will the motor go full lock because one hose still has pressure or will i have no control what so ever ?

[Noelm]

Just the same as if your cable broke, or you fell over and let go of the wheel, or the attachment point pops off, never heard of a hose coming off, but I guess anything's possible, more likely it would leak before it just fell off.

[scottar]

who specialises in fitting hydraulic steering in the Brisbane area.?
David

Any marine dealership should be able to help. Hydrive Qld are at Cleveland. It really isn't rocket science though. The systems come with pretty good instructions. If you are halfway handy on the tools you should be right.

[scottar]

all points taken onboard ,will pickup a steering knob tomorrow ,all they have are stainless ones so hopefully it wont get too hot in the sun .
a thought that has been nagging me is how much steering control do you have if one of the hydraulic hose ruptures or blows off when traveling ,will the motor go full lock because one hose still has pressure or will i have no control what so ever ?

It would depend on which hose failed. If it was the hose that held pressure against the prop torque, eventually the engine will go full lock. Catastrophic failure is extremely rare. In 20 years of fitting systems and autopilots I have only seen it once and that was due to plastic hydraulic lines being out in the sun unprotected for a lot of years. Most common issues are seals or leaks at fittings - both of which are a pain but normally not enough for loss of steering in entirety. Carrying some spare fluid to get you home is a good idea. In a pinch, pretty much any oil that isnt too thick or better still dexron 3 ATF will get you going. If you are really paranoid about hose failure a couple of fittings to suit, a section of hose and some oil would see repairs effected pretty quickly.

[skifalls]

Thanks all for the replies. We have managed to partly free up the cable but due to the angle where the cable goes into the hill there is insufficient room to get the cable out without removal of the engine.

So my delemma is spend 600-700 for my local dealership to fix or give a crack with the oldest. Looking at what needs to be done does not look hard at all, steering cable is Teleflex just need to work out the length.

The engine is a 2012 Evinrude 115 HO, with the cowling removed I cannot see an anchor point for a engine hoist?

Should I decide to give it a go myself I have two questions, what is the correct way to support engine via a hoist, where should it be fixed too.

Second question is when the bolts go back in should they be greased or silkaflex be used?


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[seastrength]

It would depend on which hose failed. If it was the hose that held pressure against the prop torque, eventually the engine will go full lock. Catastrophic failure is extremely rare. In 20 years of fitting systems and autopilots I have only seen it once and that was due to plastic hydraulic lines being out in the sun unprotected for a lot of years. Most common issues are seals or leaks at fittings - both of which are a pain but normally not enough for loss of steering in entirety. Carrying some spare fluid to get you home is a good idea. In a pinch, pretty much any oil that isnt too thick or better still dexron 3 ATF will get you going. If you are really paranoid about hose failure a couple of fittings to suit, a section of hose and some oil would see repairs effected pretty quickly.

I had a cable steering failure and went hydraulic (Hydrive) a few years ago. Only issue is that you need to keep turning the wheel regularly while not in use ? weekly, to keep the seals moist. I have had the hydraulic steering seize up because I sprayed WD40 on the shaft and it dried out and locked the steering. Had to strip it back and replace the seals. Won't make that mistake again, only use grease now. Always take a spare seal and hydraulic oil with me on long trips now. SS

[seastrength]

I had a cable steering failure and went hydraulic (Hydrive) a few years ago. Only issue is that you need to keep turning the wheel regularly while not in use ? weekly, to keep the seals moist. I have had the hydraulic steering seize up because I sprayed WD40 on the shaft and it dried out and locked the steering. Had to strip it back and replace the seals. Won't make that mistake again, only use grease now. Always take a spare seal and hydraulic oil with me on long trips now. SS

I meant to say I only use grease on the engine attachment, nothing on the shaft.

[dnej]

If I were in your position, I would keep working on the old one first. . Power steering oil is a great lubricant. Put some on the steering shaft, and move the motor back and forward, wiping off the rust as it comes out. Worked for me years ago.
David

[scottar]

I had a cable steering failure and went hydraulic (Hydrive) a few years ago. Only issue is that you need to keep turning the wheel regularly while not in use ? weekly, to keep the seals moist. I have had the hydraulic steering seize up because I sprayed WD40 on the shaft and it dried out and locked the steering. Had to strip it back and replace the seals. Won't make that mistake again, only use grease now. Always take a spare seal and hydraulic oil with me on long trips now. SS

Very odd. Had hydrive on my tinnie, now seastar that is 12 years old. Gets a random spray with either lanolin or wd40 intermittantly depending on what I get my hands on first and can spend 3 months at a time untouched courtesy of work and apart from a minor weep has been problem free. Never heard of an issue with Wd spray before.

[scottar]

Thanks all for the replies. We have managed to partly free up the cable but due to the angle where the cable goes into the hill there is insufficient room to get the cable out without removal of the engine.

So my delemma is spend 600-700 for my local dealership to fix or give a crack with the oldest. Looking at what needs to be done does not look hard at all, steering cable is Teleflex just need to work out the length.

The engine is a 2012 Evinrude 115 HO, with the cowling removed I cannot see an anchor point for a engine hoist?

Should I decide to give it a go myself I have two questions, what is the correct way to support engine via a hoist, where should it be fixed too.

Second question is when the bolts go back in should they be greased or silkaflex be used?


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The Evinrude lifting eyes normally bolt on. If you can get your hands on a manual it should show where it bolts to. If you can weld you may be able to manufacture something. Other than that price up the lifting eye. I've been lead to believe they are prettyexy though.

[scottar]

Engine bolts through the transom will need sealing with Sika or similar

[Crunchy]

My cable steering snapped in the brisbane river, very unpleasant experience that one. Changed to hydraulic, best decision ever. I couldn’t get my old cable out without taking a grinder to it which may be the better option than taking the motor off if you decide to ditch the old system although note grinder sparks and fibreglass not a happy mix. Whatever you do dont pay someone $700 to put a new cable in, may as well go hydraulic at that outlay.

ive ever had an issue with wd40 on shafts either, grease...thats another matter.

[skifalls]

Ok, I’m relatively comfortable with what needs to be done and reckon I can do it myself for parts only so 1/3 of the quotes costs. Have got the sons mate brining a engine hoist and I reckon the boat manufacturer will have a lifting ring which screws into the flywheel that I can borrow.

Thanks all for the assistance and will update on Monday/Tuesday with some pics


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[paullee]

Hi if u struggle to find a lifting ring I can lend u one if that helps. Also If it was me I would be careful not to get any air in to the 2 stroke oil line. I had issues with intermittent no oil alarms after motor removal for transom rebuild on mine. Needs to be bled correctly if air gets in system.
Cheers
Paul

[Noelm]

Most motors you don't need to disconnect the motor, just unbolt and move slightly to get the cable out, have a look, it probably is not as daunting as it seems.

[Scubafish]

http://www.crowleymarine.com/parts.html

above website for schematics and part numbers,put in year make & model of eng.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwh65xem33k&ab_channel=DangarMarine (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwh65xem33k&ab_channel=DangarMarine)

Above web site how to replace tilt tube.

[Fed]

Is it like this?
https://www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/used/trailer-boats/evolution-500-cuddy/212124
Too easy, pull out the cable from the tilt tube, clean, grease & replace old cable if it's free & it should be.

[tunaticer]

As for listing the motor, most motors have one or multiple threaded holes for lifting from.
Measure the bolt diameter and thread pitch and go to a specialist bolt place and buy shouldered lifting eye bolts. Quite cheap and handy to have for other jobs too.

[Dignity]

A lot of good ideas here, some I've used but it appears that the Evolution doesn't have enough room to remove/replace the steering, this has been confirmed by Skifall contacting the boats manufacturer.😕😕

[Fed]

I thought he contacted the service place Dignity?

It would all be clear if the picture of it wasn't a secret I guess.

If it's the same as the link I put up it should be removable without taking the motor off by simply pulling some through from the helm then making a large enough loop to pull it squarely out of the tilt tube.

[Noelm]

It depends if the hole was drilled in line with the tilt tube, most don't, because it puts the hole too low and water splashes in, so they drill it up higher and fit the cable to the motor, then install motor on transom, this puts a bad bend right where it enters the tilt tube, probably what caused failure in the first place?

[skifalls]

116659

116660

I’ve attached a pic showing the steering position with a tape measure to give perspective. You can see the steering cannot go any further to the right with the angle I have to work with.

Dropped past manufacturer today and have borrowed a lifting eye and purchased a replacement cable, all up parts are at 160 so all going well engine can be raised tomorrow and we can swap the cable out

Lifting eye retails at 225, ouch!


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[scottar]

Hard to say without being there but from th pic it looks as though the cable could be manipulated out once disconected from the helm without lifting by pushing cable out and up into a loop. Not easy but doable. Lifting will put the least stress on the cable though.

[skifalls]

I looked at removing the plastic around the cabling but this only gave a few extra cms of room to play with. I reckon as you say the cable may come of with some manipulation I don’t want to risk bending the new one putting it back in so I don’t really have much choice in removing engine.

The plan is to raise engine only just engine to clear the edge then move 20cms to the left to get the necessary clearance.


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[Fed]

OMC usually use brackets screwed to the block, if that lifting gizmo screws on to the crankshaft in place of the nut I think you're digging a deeper hole for yourself using it. (Think flywheel holding tool & tension wrench 105ft/lbs?)

Disconnect from the helm & pull out 10 feet in a loop then remove it from the tilt tube, once it's out I bet it's free.

[Dignity]

Rest the skeg on a block of timber, remove the 2 top nuts to the motor, loosen the 2 bottom ones and using the jockey wheel lift the motor, only needs to move about 20mm.

[skifalls]

OMC usually use brackets screwed to the block, if that lifting gizmo screws on to the crankshaft in place of the nut I think you're digging a deeper hole for yourself using it. (Think flywheel holding tool & tension wrench 105ft/lbs?)

Disconnect from the helm & pull out 10 feet in a loop then remove it from the tilt tube, once it's out I bet it's free.

According to the installation guide and manufacturer of the boat, plus scottar (who I believe works in the industry, or has a BRP engine in his boat, can’t remember) this is the correct lifting procedure.

Even the service center advised lifting the engine using a engine crane moving to the left will give the angle required.

Now it’s got me think is there a issue with the removal of the engine bolts, is there something I’ve overlooked?

Cheers,
Mat


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[dnej]

The skeg on the block of wood works well

[Noelm]

It does kind of look like it would come out from the picture, but as mentioned, hard to tell without being there, that is the correct lift gizmo.

[Dignity]

Depends on how much sealant is in there, once you've lifted the engine, remove the bolts and clean as much of the old sealant away, when reinstalling the bolts use bucket loads to reseal it. If you access to a hoist then by all means use it as it wll make life easier, especially if you get interrupted.

[skifalls]

Well the steering cable has hit a slight hurdle, the cable is the wrong size, I stupidly assumed the correct one was going to be supplied without quoting the old one.

Now the mad rush tomorrow to try and get the correct length. In any case the bolts are removed and engine is on hoist waiting to be reinstalled once the correct cable is out back in.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180117/7620d41834d9d8d9db83b979445f3e8e.jpg


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[552Evo]

Good luck tomorrow and keep up the good work.


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[dnej]

Buggar. Did you say a few words at the time?
David

[Dignity]

Now that you have the cable out, check the tiller tube on the port side, there should an O ring just inside, if not find one the right size, I think from memory they are 11mm but could be another size, this will help as this could be the source of your water ingress. The grease nipple on the tiller tube only lubricates the inner and outer sleeve and not the steering rod as many people think.

[skifalls]

Thanks guys for all your help, really appreciated. All up 3 hours labor and a great deal of satisfaction that we did it ourselves.

Would I do it again, yep sure would.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180118/69a43a94cc7d3adea139e35e3bea8d12.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180118/f12bff09a10ba32e55ddc2c8adb411c5.jpg


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[dnej]

Skifalls,
Please note the comment of NOT GREASING THE SHAFT. If you do you will have issues. Power steering oil is the go.
And remember each time you go past the motor, give a shove from side to side.
David
l

[skifalls]

[emoji1360] I’ve removed all grease from the shaft with mercury metho and given a light spray with Innox until I pickup some correct fluid


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[scottar]

Skifalls,
Please note the comment of NOT GREASING THE SHAFT. If you do you will have issues. Power steering oil is the go.
And remember each time you go past the motor, give a shove from side to side.
David
l

Some years ago there was a mob selling a cable self oiling kit - basically a reservoir under the helm with oil in it that the end of the cable dipped into whenever you went full lock one way - the oil then worked it's way down the cable with the motion of steering. Not sure whether they are still available or just how successfully they worked. Sounded good in theory though.

[dnej]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjHYhaqejHA

It was called a cable buddy. That is a you tube link to the unit.
David