Charter boat roll over

[scottar]

South passage bar early today. 11 + 2 onboard. Rescue services in attendance. Anyone know which boat?

[scottar]

Have heard it was "Firebird"

[ric]

Haven't heard yet

[ric]

Have heard it was "Firebird"that's the red one with twin Suzies

[Aussie123]

It was Mathew Hubbards boat, Moreton Island Fishing Charters

[jackson4300]

Hubbard wasn't onboard though.

[Axl]

Sounds like it was a very nasty accident which could have been a lot worse, glad to here most came away relatively unscathed.

[Almako]

Do we know if they were using a particular channel? I know some of the operators use alternate ones to the middle and south.
I've been on a dive charter through there as well and they seem to head straight out of the Rous channel somehow.
I thought I'd seen a charter boat head that way on Monday as well, but couldn't say who it was.

Glad everyone is ok. Its something I worry about every time I cross any bar.
We had one stand up on us on Monday (middle channel) but we had about 30meters to make a decision and head to where there was no white water.
It came out of know where and as we went over it, there was another one right behind it (like 5metres away) and then nothing / clear waters.

[Moejoes]

Scottar, at first glance I thought it was Maverick :P

Good to see all made it back ok.
Just watching the news and I know the guy that cut his arm and chest up but bugger me, can't work out from where.



South passage bar early today. 11 + 2 onboard. Rescue services in attendance. Anyone know which boat?

[castlemaine]

Just heard from a friend that the news reported no one was wearing a life jacket. Has anyone heard the same? Isn't it a legal requirement?

Only reason I say this was that I made a comment to some friends today that it would have taken RESCUE (bless them) at least an hour to get to them, Lucky for the compulsory life jacket rule on Bar Crossings.

I know lots of people cross South Passage Bar with ease but I had a bad experience on my third crossing, Scared the crap out me.

[ric]

Just heard from a friend that the news reported no one was wearing a life jacket. Has anyone heard the same? Isn't it a legal requirement?

Only reason I say this was that I made a comment to some friends today that it would have taken RESCUE (bless them) at least an hour to get to them, Lucky for the compulsory life jacket rule on Bar Crossings.

I know lots of people cross South Passage Bar with ease but I had a bad experience on my third crossing, Scared the crap out me.

Not compulsory to wear a life jacket crossing a bar in a boat that size. I'm pretty sure under 4.8m you do (in qld)

[Moejoes]

Correct and unless you are older than 12months and under 12yrs old.......

Lifejacket rulesIt is compulsory to wear a lifejacket:


when crossing a designated coastal bar (https://www.msq.qld.gov.au/Safety/Crossing-a-bar) ( https://www.msq.qld.gov.au/Safety/Crossing-a-bar ) in an open boat that is less than 4.8m in length
if you are under 12 years old (from 12 months old and up to, but not including, 12 years old) in an open boat that is less than 4.8m in length and underway.

Our law says that:


boat owners or skippers must give each person on board information about where safety equipment is kept and clearly sign where lifejackets are stowed. The labels must have the word ‘lifejacket’ in red text on a white background or white text on a red background
lifejackets must comply and display information about which Australian Standard (AS) applies. The lifejacket must comply with this standard. The current standard is AS 4758, which has replaced AS 1512-1996, AS 1499-1996 and AS 2260-1996. Lifejackets that meet these previous standards are still acceptable to use if they are in good condition

[scottar]

Scottar, at first glance I thought it was Maverick :P

Good to see all made it back ok.
Just watching the news and I know the guy that cut his arm and chest up but bugger me, can't work out from where.

Must be seeing double Rob - you been drinking again ;D.

[fishntime]

Scottar, at first glance I thought it was Maverick :P

Good to see all made it back ok.
Just watching the news and I know the guy that cut his arm and chest up but bugger me, can't work out from where.

his name is Geoff and he's a painter does that help?
yes firebird
yes crossing bar in the middle aprox 2.2nm either way too nearest land. not a good place to be !. no freak wave, set of waves
11 on board total, 1 female 10 male inc. decky and skipper
roll over aprox 5.50am
all picked up by water police

good reminder to all, wear your inflateable life jacket, have epirbs, life jackets and flares FULLY accessable, spend the extra and get a water activated epirb,

[SatNav]

.... spend the extra and get a water activated epirb,

1. What would be the reason for this recommendation considering the circumstances and size/type of vessel?

[Noelm]

1. I guess because it might have happened 20 miles out, and no one had time to activate the EPIRB!

[fishntime]

1. What would be the reason for this recommendation considering the circumstances and size/type of vessel?

My reasoning is:
A charter operator being in charge of and responsible for multiple lives other than their own. Size and type I guess could be argued about, but all vessels have potential issues on coastal bar crossings - small x wave size, large x lower draught-shallow bottom in parts. the current rules could certainly be looked at re epirbs and life jackets (type and when you have to wear them on coastal bar crossings)
Access during chaos, initial human nature is self preservation , ie need to get to the surface to breath before anything else.
the then current position of the epirb is then difficult in an up turned boat as all are already exhausted, some injured, 2 cant swim (1 due to back injury) and many in shock due to the circumstance, at this time near dangerous to attempt to get to the epirb / flares / life jackets. keep in mind, the waves don't just stop while you're sitting around waiting, the pounding by waves/wash continues to wash all survivors off of the partial safety of sitting on / clinging to the upturned hull, all helping each other and the injured and those who cant swim, so there is little recuperation time to 'go for a look and hope to not get hurt during the exercise'.
So back to the point, no one would have to set it off if it were hydrostatic, it would turn itself on when immersed under water.
This is just my opinion from my experience,

[Cape Crusader]

G'day
When I bought my latest epirb I thought a water activated one would be the go but after a little research decided it wasn't worth it, though there may be better options that eluded me.
The problem for me that the epirb must be removed from its cradle before it will work, so couldn't see much advantage.
Definitely worth getting an epirb that sends your coordinates though, rather than waiting potentially hours for a satellite to come around
Cheers
Rod

[PROS]

So back to the point, no one would have to set it off if it were hydrostatic, it would turn itself on when immersed under water.
This is just my opinion from my experience,

All sounds good but how does this epirb transfers signal when submerged underwater?
My understanding is that antenna has to be over water to transmit signal, regardless of activation type.
No point having an activated epirb attached to its housing and still submerged under water.

A sealed ditch bag would be much better option as it will find its way out most likely or the epirb to be attached to one of the crew members during a possible instant loss of boat scenario like bar crossing. Most other times there will be time to take the epirb, bar crossing issue is instant loss.

[SatNav]

1. Yes some models of Epirbs are "water activated" but first the hydrostatic mechanism has to be submerged to a specific depth and regardless of occurring on a bar or 20 miles out if the vessel doesn't or won't sink far enough for the release to trigger then one has to question the relevance of these type of models on these types of vessels, maybe a bit of false reality installing these types of models on these types of vessels for which they are really not designed?

[fishntime]

all good valid points guys and so many issues arguable, like the life jacket conundrum

have found some water activated types that do not require that 2 to 4m depth
5 second emersion https://www.e-marineworld.com.au/product/mcmurdo-smartfind-e5-epirb-water-activated/

[scottar]

You can dissect stuff like this for ever but for every argument there is a rebuttal. There is the argument for life jackets - and there is the issue with wearing them in an enclosed cabin - we are made to either remove or at a bare minimum, unbuckle our auto inflaters when on the job and inside - and manuals won't work if you knock yourself out . There is the argument for Hydro-static activation - coupled with false alarms or equipment jettisoning itself and causing issue (This actually caused a capsize on SPB many years ago when a vessel took a wave that caused the release on the life raft to deploy. It apparently then inflated in front of another vessel that was capsized while in the process of taking evasive action). Yes, it is probably a good thing for those involved and the powers that be to sit down and have a good look at what happened but we need to remember that in this situation there is no "one size fits all" with equipment levels and safety standards. Yes - there needs to be, and is, a minimum standard that is required but to mandate requirements without taking vessel and situation aspects into account can actually create hazards for some while fixing them for others. We also need to be mindful that when dealing with an environment that is constantly in motion it is inherently dangerous to a degree and as much as the health and safety departments don't want to hear it, we can never account for the human element and sometimes "shit just happens" that regardless of the amount of training, safety equipment, regulation etc we can not be prepared for.

[ric]

Well said scottar