Cruise Craft 575 Outsider fully loaded!

[Gotty80]

I'm new on here sorry if this is covered somewhere,

I've got a 2003 Cruise Craft outsider i picked up with a F115 Yamaha which I've recently upgraded to an F150xb.
I'm not getting as good economy as yet from the new motor and i was really hoping to get equivalent if i could.

Im carrying 4 blokes, full fuel, fishing gear, ice, lead etc... its fully loaded and i travel 50 nautical mile each way.
After last trip out i wound her out fully trimmed in the river and its making 5500 revs and that was with 100 litres fuel used.
14-1-4 x 17p Reliance prop is apparently the lowest pitch the dealer can offer me.
motor is on the third hole from the top, not sure if thats right.

Anyone else with this combo carrying a big load?

cheers
Gotty

[Gotty80]

What props are other guys running with this combo?

[Duckfish]

Think that is about right. I've got a Haines Hunter 565LL with a Merc 150hp Four swinging a 18" prop wot about 5300rpm. Getting about 1.6 klm per litre and carrying a similar load. A days trip from Manly to Deep Tempest and back will use about 80 odd liters of fuel
Duck

[inveratta]

snap.....565L with 150 merc 4 banger..here are some figs from a test somewhere..not mine




PERFORMANCE – ECONOMY
3.6 l/ph @ 1000rpm
5.4 l/ph @ 1500rpm
8.6 l/ph @ 2000rpm
11.7 l/ph @ 2500rpm
14.3 l/ph @ 3000rpm
18.1 l/ph @ 3500rpm
24.1 l/ph @ 4000rpm
31.4 l/ph @ 4500rpm
38.6 l/ph @ 5000rpm
52.0 l/ph @ 5500rpm
53.5 l/ph @ 5600rpm (WOT)

[inveratta]

[QUOTE=inveratta;1628976]
snap.....565L with 150 merc 4 banger..here are some figs from a test somewhere..not mine





PERFORMANCE - SPEED
4.2kts (7.8km/h) @ 1000rpm
5.9kts (10.9km/h)@ 1500rpm
7.1kts (13.1km/h) @ 2000rpm
11.7kts (21.6km/h) @ 2500rpm
19.0kts (35.1km/h) @ 3000rpm
23.7kts (43.8km/h) @ 3500rpm
27.6kts (51.0km/h) @ 4000rpm
32.0kts (59.2km/h) @ 4500rpm
35.3kts (65.3km/h) @ 5000rpm
40.0kts (75.0km/h) @ 5500rpm
40.8kts (75.5km/h) @ 5600rpm (WOT)

[Flex]

Just reading performance bulletin on noosacat website. Now I know they are totally different boats mono v cat. But the 115 had better economy of roughly 1.25km/l and the 150 was much faster cruise but coukd only manage a smidge better than 1km/l.

So even though your cruise is up your economy may actually suffer a bit.


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[WildFishExpeditions]

I dont know if you will ever really get the same economy from a 150 as a 115. the 150 is +800cc bigger, so its unlikely you will go through the same amount of fuel realistically. maybe the 2003 115 is a different size block to the new 115. I have a 150 and i can get 2km/L at cruise. however this is a 3L block. my fishing buddy has a 140hp which is a 2L block. every time he will use less fuel than me, but its also be expected since my displacement is 50% bigger than his.

[FisHard]

If you're doing a 100nm return trip, loaded up like that, and only using 100l, stop worrying about your economy, that's awesome!

[Gotty80]

That last trip was 60nm for that 100ltrs.

:-?

Followed a mate out on that trip in the dark at around 16-18knots.
His boat was planning but mine not so much until around the 20 knot mark.

Spoke to cruise craft, and they set them up with yamahas on the second hole down.
My motor is on the 3rd hole down so im gonna try moving it down one.

Im hoping this may help it onto the plane at lower revs maybe?

[Duckfish]

Hi Inveratta. Would you know what type and pitch of prop they were using?
Duck

[Skusto]

That last trip was 60nm for that 100ltrs.

:-?

Followed a mate out on that trip in the dark at around 16-18knots.
His boat was planning but mine not so much until around the 20 knot mark.

Spoke to cruise craft, and they set them up with yamahas on the second hole down.
My motor is on the 3rd hole down so im gonna try moving it down one.

Im hoping this may help it onto the plane at lower revs maybe?

If the motor is not currently cavitating or blowing out in rough seas then I would not recommend dropping the motor as it would only increase drag.


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[scottar]

You need to look at trim tabs or a permatrim to generate stern lift or try loading adjustments so the boat is planing properly. If you are pushing water trying to go slow the economy will be horrible

[inveratta]

hi inveratta. Would you know what type and pitch of prop they were using?
Duck

17 inch enertia proP SS

[Gotty80]

cheers guys,

yeh i have no issues with blowing out.

currently running a permatrim.

hmmmm

[scottar]

Relating your situation to the situation with my own rig - you have added 40 odd kilos to the transom by Yamaha's website numbers and basically upset the balance of the boat a bit - thus requiring a faster speed to get the hull working properly again. My Victory was the exactly the same in comparison to a previous one I had driven with less transom weight. I was using a litre of fuel to travel 600 metres prior to fitment of both trim tabs and permatrim when it was rough due to having the bow in the air and the hull not working efficiently when trying to travel slow. After fitting the planing aids, at the same revs depending on load I am now achieving anywhere from 1.1 to 1.4 km/L - running with the tabs (12x9) fully down or there about and varying degrees of negative trim depending on just how rough it is. This has reduced my "clean" planing speed from about 20 knots to about 15. Just out of interest, did you have your leg tucked in or had you trimmed out?

You may also want to look at props - a change to a large bladed propeller design made a further improvement with my rig but by a long margin the biggest change was bought about by the tabs and foil.

[ozynorts]

Another thing to consider is an engine wedge. This will allow you to trim the engine in more and get the nose down.

[gofishin]

Ok, try again…


…Followed a mate out on that trip in the dark at around 16-18knots.
His boat was planning but mine not so much until around the 20 knot mark…You should be able to achieve a good plane well below 20kn – depending on how much you are willing to play around with and/or spend on your motor ‘setup’. Given that 150hp is the max hp, and a 4-stroke (i.e. at the very heavy end of the motor transom weight), you may need a lot of tweaking if you are looking to reduce your minimum planning speed by as much as possible.

Do a search here on motor height, which will reveal a lot of threads discussing this, and the numerous options of achieving a lower planning speed (motor height + ; 4 blade props, foils, trim tabs… all of these etc), and the significant benefits people have achieved from doing this.

Start with the motor height, as this is the easiest (and most likely the cheapest) to rectify – if required. Given by your 20kn remark above, I would ‘guess’ that it might be mounted a hole too low (i.e.) the motor vertical height position is a hole too low. A motor mounted too low definitely gives you a bow-high attitude, and a faster ‘minimum planning speed’ than otherwise could be achieved.

Do not lower your motor height, it will make it worse!


…Spoke to cruise craft, and they set them up with yamahas on the second hole down.
My motor is on the 3rd hole down so im gonna try moving it down one.

Im hoping this may help it onto the plane at lower revs maybe?Depending on the interpretations of this terminology, it could mean the same thing.

For a motor with 4 mounting bolt holes as below…

Transom top

|o|
|o|
|o| << is your bolt in this hole?
|o|


For the above motor installation, the “bolt in 3rd hole down” also means the same as the “motor in the 2nd hole down”, meaning the “motor is in the second hole down from the very top position”.

When people say “2nd hole down”, a lot of them are talking about “the motor position lowered down one hole from the top/highest motor position”, not where the bolt is.

Do a search on here and look at the pics/vids on A/V (cav) plate location in the water stream, when at a good cruising speed, and compare to yours and go from there. The dealer could have buried the motor ‘just to be safe’ (well in his mind at least).

Also, if you are only getting 5500rpm max, I would definitely be looking at a smaller pitch prop, especially if you regularly to big trips with a heavy load. Given this, go straight to a 4 blade that provides good transom lift. Most 4 blades provide good transom lift, but only some 3 blades will, and, ‘normally’ a 4 blade will provide better cruising speed economy than a 3 blade. If the dealer can’t help you, give him his prop back & get your money back, and call SOLAS. Give them some rpm/GPS speed data of your existing prop, and they will probably have 2 or 3 four blade props to try… but… sort your motor height out first, as it could change the performance dramatically.

Cheers
Brendon

[Duckfish]

Thanks Inveratta. Me thinks I'll see Mick down at Coorparoo Marine

[Gotty80]

Cheers Scottar, I had looked this up myself earlier and thought just the same. 40kg extra way out back is a lot when doing a slow run out as i usually do. i'm pushing a lot of water.
Ive been advised of a larger diameter 3 blade or a 4.

Trimmed out or tucked in going slow on the way out? I was pretty well tucked in

The thing is.

the motor is only 12 months old
still talking to the dealer about this issue as there was no real prop testing.
yamaha dont seem to have a prop option at a lower pitch or 4 blade.
dealer has solas props also but im not sure how they go.

I will look into trim tabs but on the way home it could not ride any better. loves a following sea but assistance into the swell is what i need

[GBC]

My guess is you are heavy as hell and your fore and aft trim is off. My outsider liked having the big esky in the well of the cabin - made a big difference - same hull. Keep the spare 2 blokes right up near your helm area, not sitting in the back corners. Piss the permatrim off - the last thing a fat arsed 18 ft cruisecraft needs is stern lift - they have plenty. If it's not planning at 18 kn there is something pretty bad going on. You sure you speedo isn't set to kph? Mine used to jump onto the plane towing high speed lures all the time at around 11 kn. 18kn was comfortable cruise speed in heavy weather. Even a greyhound like a seafarer will plane at 18 kn - just. What was the load state when you hit 5500 rpm? How did it handle then?

[ranmar850]

And four blokes on a little boat like that is an awful big load, particularly if you have a heap of fuel and a heavy esky on board. More like a two person boat, really, or three if you need the extra hands trolling for bills.

[JulianDeMarchi]

And four blokes on a little boat like that is an awful big load, particularly if you have a heap of fuel and a heavy esky on board. More like a two person boat, really, or three if you need the extra hands trolling for bills.

A 575 a two person boat, really? I might be missing something? I fish 3 in my 5.5mtr boat with no issues at 1770 for 3 days at a time...

[ranmar850]

Comfortable for 2, ok for 3, crowded for 4. I have a much older boat, a Swiftcraft Dominator, 5.65, but beamy with a better than average amount of deck space for the length, and I wouldn't be fishing four. We fish three fairly often, useful when you are chasing billfish, We also have either a a 110litre esky across the beam, or a large fish cooler bag which stows along one side, leaving 90% of the deck clear.Looked at the pictures on their website, and the useable deckspace is tiny compared to mine. And given the cruisecraft is a deeper vee than mine, which is pretty rounded across the back, it'll be working harder to plane that lot. Unless two of them are occupying the cabin, all that weight of passenger will be aft of amidships.And the size of the passengers matters, too--are his mates all of "generous" proportions? if they all are, he could be going towards a half tonne of human on board. He's simply asking too much of what is a doubtless a very good little boat, IMO.

pic added from Cruise Crafts website. Not my idea of a 4 man boat.

115408

[Gotty80]

@gofishin- Yeh that is the motor hole I am on so i will not be moving the motor at this stage. The motor is one above factory setup. (for a normal load)

The Yammi dealer wanted to make sure the motor height was not low before playing with props, so that part is sorted.
So now I'm leaning toward a 16P 3 blade or a 4. The guy i spoke to from cruise craft suggested a 16P as opposed to their usual 17P.

I realize the boat is heavier than most people use them.
Could the permatrim really be a bad thing when I'm bogging down in the arse?

We are bottom bashing straight down and it fishes 4 quite comfortably and 2+ hours each way 4 people helps out alot with fuel costs.

Could anyone recommend a solas prop? or powertech?

[scottar]

Solas make one equivalent to BRP's Rebel TBX propeller (they actually make the prop for BRP as well). 3 blade with big blades designed for mid range cruising economy. Worth a try if they make one to fit. I had to drop 2 inches in pitch to get the right RPM. It is better on my rig than their 4 blade.

[Goffiller]

Gotty80, I have the same boat (though 2006 model) with a verado 150.I have been trialing motor heights and props over the last 6 months and ended up with a enertia 14 3/4 x 16 pitch. I went down to a 15 pitch in testing but found the 16 was the sweet spot for this motor and lifted the motor one hole from where it was originally. It is worth the effort to do this and I tested and documented each prop change so I knew exactly how they compared.

Happy with the setup now and after these changes I have found the boat more sensitive to trim.

I am also running a permatrim and trim tabs. I find trim tabs are necessary into the swell with this boat and find a small adjustment is all that is necessary to keep it level.

As a guide and I know my motor is a 2006 and not as fuel efficient as a newer model but my best economy is 1.74km to a litre with two POB but no eskys at 4000 rpm.

If you google for them there are two Yamaha performance bulletins on the 575 with the 130 and 150 4 stroke, I get no where near their published figures but may be worth a look to see how you compare. I think they are running a 17 pitch prop in their tests from memory.

Hope this info helps a little bit as I know there was not much to compare to out there when I started looking.

[fishing111]

Pretty much as GBC has stated, I don't know how you balance your boat but do your crew all stand up near the helm when travelling into the sea uphill? I find that if you have crew sitting right against the transom in some heavy slop then it will bog down, but move the crew forward and much,much better. It's all just balance, and if you can't get the weight forward to balance out then tabs are the go as suggested. 50nm could be a stretch standing though,

[Gotty80]

Oh yeh its a fair 2hr minimum jouney. I've an esky in the well up front and a bigger one at the rear the boys sit on in between standing behind the front seats.

Sounding more and more like trim tabs will be a big benefit even after i get the right prop and my revs up.
Thats all good, just one thing at a time for now and i'll get to them one day.

I will definitely try and get a bit more weight forward. last trip i had all the sinkers up beside the helm seats but im sure i can offset a bit more weight yet.