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View Full Version : First ~4.2m SC boat - Quintrex, Stacer, Stessco, Clark or Horizon?



Sifor10
10-01-2017, 10:37 PM
Hi all

New member who has decided to take up another expensive hobby...

I am getting my RMDL licence on Saturday and am looking to buy my first boat over the next few months for fishing/running around on the Gold Coast (smooth water). I do not expect to be hooning around WOT much and a lot of my time could be at a comfortable cruise or 6 knots.

Keen to get a small side console boat about 4.2m or so and being on the Gold Coast I am spoilt for choice:


Quintrex 420 Renegade - Tweed Marine (paired with 50hp 2 or 4 stroke Mercury ~ $19-20k), Surfcoast Marine (50hp E-tec, white hull, ~$21k)
Stacer 429 Outlaw - Whitewater Marine (40hp E-tec, sounder, bow thruster plate ~19k)
Clark 4.3 fishmaster - Pacific Marine (40hp Mercury 4 stroke ~$17k)
Horizon 438 Stryker - Marine Tune (40hp Yamaha CV 2 stroke, sounder, white hull, bimini ~$18,500)
Stessco 429 Fisherman - Marine Tune (40hp Yamaha 4 stroke, white hull, sounder ~$18,000)


Importance:

reliability of engine and hull - are some brands more unreliable/poorly manufactured than others?
annual servicing costs
purchase price
minimum 3 seat spots (ideally 4)
fuel/oil efficiency


Would appreciate any 'red flags' on any of the above hulls or engines. I am only starting to consider the engines now which appears to be a whole other kettle of fish...Once I narrow down the list to two I'll look to take them out for a test first - also, I assume marine dealers are like car yards and there is room for negotiation?

Cheers and I hope to see you guys on the water soon!

Edit: cut the wall of text back a bit ;)

up the creek
10-01-2017, 10:49 PM
first of all welcome to ausfish bro.. you have entered with a bang lol theres a lot to read there.. im sure the boys with the know on those boats will give you some insight into which may suit ya..enjoy..

bugsytwoshoes
11-01-2017, 05:39 AM
Hi mate, The 4.2m/ 4.6m side console boats are one of the most popular rigs around with plenty of choice. All those brands you mentioned are all good boats with some offering more fruit than others. I think it boils down to what sort of a deal with the most "extras" you can extract from the dealer. There are a few more good boats you have not mentioned , Sea Jay and Brooker, I am awaiting delivery of a Brooker 4.55m side console/60hp 4st , $24000. I am buying this boat from North Coast Marine Centre at Urunga and I live on the Gold Coast. I would favour the four stroke motor and my particular favourites are Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki. It may be an idea to just buy the hull you like from a particular dealer then have the motor you prefer installed somewhere else. There's a lot to think about but do your homework and do a lot of ringing around before you make a decision. If you are not in a hurry the Tinny and Tackle Show is on in May I think, plenty to look at there. Good luck with your purchase Sifor and safe boating.

Noelm
11-01-2017, 05:40 AM
All of those boats are pretty similar, I have one of them mentioned and more than happy with mine, they will all be OK for just general boating, buy the one with the best, most respected dealer close to you., I would personally go for a 4 stroke over an old carby 2 stroke, and opt for power trim if it's not already quoted.

Sifor10
11-01-2017, 07:17 AM
Thanks guys - I like the look of the Horizon, but there is very little online comments on forums (such as this one) about it - any thoughts?

robsue
11-01-2017, 07:46 AM
definitely go 4 stroke

Flex
11-01-2017, 08:25 AM
Be really careful when buying a small 4 stroke motor on a tinny.
While they are reliable and run great, its very easy to mismatch one and be stuck with a slug of a boat.

Stick 3 people in your tinny and all of a sudden you cant even get on the plane. The 40 yammy 4 stroke is a fairly low torque engine as its only 747cc998kg) compared to the suzukis 941cc.(104kg)

so you'll find there is a bit of difference between the above two in performance. The 30 etec for example is a better performing engine than a 40 yammy.

Another example is the etec will be a much 'punchier' engine. 40hp etec864cc (105kg) so it'll blow the Yamaha out of the water in performance.
etec also runs much larger gearbox I believe.

I don't own an etec and not engine biased at all. but to buy smart you need to look at what brand is best within your horse power range.
I haven't looked at the Honda's or mercs to see what those specs are.

Also are you a heavy or light boat user?
if you only go boating 6 times a year then old school 2 stroke is actually a great option. cheap to service and run. Or etec second as there aren't 6-12monthly oil changes.
If your a heavy user a 4 stroke is definitely a better option I think.

As to tinny. Have a look at each one and check their quality of welds. Its astounding how crap some are now compared to others

VictorOscar
11-01-2017, 10:22 AM
I haven't owned any of those specific boats however, I've owned a 4m Sea Jay and currently own a 4.2m Clark in open tinnies - both were really good boats, with the build quality on both being exceptional.

If you're able to wait for a boat show you'll be able to view each boat within a few minutes of each other. You'll be amazed the differences in the build quality, welding etc. between some boat brands.

I currently have a 40hp Merc 2 stroke and know someone with a 40p Merc 4 stroke and neither have had any issues.

I personally wouldn't buy an etec in that size. They are only 2 cylinders and given they are the same price as a 4 stroke, I would lean towards one of them. Thinking about resale, a four stroke will always be easier.

One other thing to think about is that very rarely, will you be able to fit aftermarket accessories to your boat as well as the manufacturer could have done at the time of the build.

So if you are considering live bait tanks, bait boards, bow mount brackets, kill tank, underfloor fuel tanks etc ask the dealers if they are available from the manufacturer, and if they are custom built out of aluminium for your boat of if they are off the shelf products which the dealer fits for you.

If they are custom built products ask how much they charge as my experience has told me that it is worth spending the extra at the time of purchase and getting these things done by the manufacturer.

If the dealer says it's off the shelf products then save your money, you can do it yourself.

alleycat
11-01-2017, 10:34 AM
I look around all the tinnies in that size a while back and bought the 4.29 stessco catcher, I wanted a stable boat with lots of room for casting ect and the Stessco has heaps and is well made, before that I owned a Horizon, good boat and high side and a deep v bow but it was not near as stable or have the room of the catcher, and the 30hp Yamaha 2 stroke I have has been a work horse for 11 years now and runs like new still...

Sifor10
11-01-2017, 07:11 PM
Thanks everyone for the really good advice - much appreciated.

I will look to try and visit a few of the dealerships and inspect the boats, check the welding etc.

To confirm - are boat dealers open to negotiation like car yards? I would think boats are generally harder to sell, and given the competition on the Gold Coast they would be more open to larger discounts?

Cheers!

spud477
11-01-2017, 07:45 PM
I have the outlaw 429 had a 40hp 4 stroke only good with 2 blokes anymore It was a bit ordinary would go minimum of a 50 as they are a heavy boat. Had mine three years and now have a 60 and can't fault the boat two blokes standing on one side and you still feel safe and they ride really nice.

Coontakinta
12-01-2017, 06:23 AM
To confirm - are boat dealers open to negotiation like car yards? I would think boats are generally harder to sell, and given the competition on the Gold Coast they would be more open to larger discounts?

Cheers!

They will all tell you there is no fat in the price, but push hard enough n its funny how they seem to find some or plenty!
I saved around 6K on my boat from the quoted price when I first enquired, Plus I got a few extras on top for nix!
Something else for you to consider, if you weren't confused already, is resale. You say this is your first boat. There is EVERY possibility that in a few short years you may find that the boat you choose has some short comings in regard to future pursuits. Some brands and configurations have better resale than others. A point worth remembering.
Good luck with your investigations.

Camhawk88
12-01-2017, 10:57 AM
As a first boat I would go second hand. If you decide you want to up grade in a couple of years your will probably half the price of a new rig. Why not get one with the depreciation done for you? Plenty of good 2-3 year boats on the market at very good prices. Getting a brand new boat doesnt increase your chance of reliability over a second hand one either. Even new motors can have issues. At least with 2nd hand you can put the motor on the software and instantly see if it has had issues.

2c

Funchy
13-01-2017, 08:33 AM
Get a good second hand tinny like Camhawk suggests

You get more boat for your buck. I got a 2year old Stacer outlaw with a 50hp 4 banger on the back and iPilot, Lowrance 7 with chirp, batteries safety gear etc etc etc all kitted out for $16,500.

Plenty of them come on to Gumtree etc

Andy56
13-01-2017, 03:24 PM
I would personally go for a 4 stroke over an old carby 2 stroke, and opt for power trim if it's not already quoted.[/QUOTE]

Noelm,you make it subtely sound like an ETEc is a carby job. Maybe not what you intended, but thats what happens when you cry chicken little too much, hahahaha

Noelm
13-01-2017, 04:09 PM
Nope, not even trying to imply an e-tec has anything to do with carby motors, and if you read correctly, it's what I said, and I still say it...I would have a 4 stroke over a carby 2 stroke, see, no mention of e-tec at all, and also note, a couple of his choices are carby 2 strokes, pretty simple really isn't it? don't know about the chicken business, you lost me there.

BigE
13-01-2017, 07:52 PM
if your sure your only going to use in smooth waters look for a 2nd hand quintrex hornet, my old 4m wide body hornet was an excellent boat. very stable very economical if your dont try to make them in to a speed boat.

BigE

Sifor10
13-01-2017, 09:06 PM
Hi everyone, thanks very much for all the comments and advice, really appreciated. I am leaning towards a 4 stroke at this stage if not for the better resale price.

I am keeping an eye out on Gumtree as I know there are some good buys out there.

Might also visit some dealers tomorrow for a look (will leave the credit card at home!!!) to get a feel for the quality of various manufacturers.

Giveitacrack
14-01-2017, 11:47 AM
One of my mates has a new 4.2 quintrex renegade with a 40 hp 4 stroke yammie and it is a slug both bottom and top end.Tried everything with different motor heights and hydrafoil etc.On the other hand another mate has a Stacer outlaw 429 which is the same boat configured the same with a Yammie 50 hp 4 stroke and it goes a hell of the lot better than you would think with 10 more hp.The ride in both is good but the freeboard or height to the gunnels is questionable.I hate going across the bay in them when it gets messy... with the seat height it feels uneasy.

Noelm
14-01-2017, 02:05 PM
I have a 4.29 Outlaw with a 50 Yamaha and it goes OK, my mate has the same boat with a smaller HP Honda and it leaves mine for dead, I think it's just that model Yamaha that is not so flash.

Lantana
14-01-2017, 03:16 PM
First time on here for a long time, and the first post I clicked on relates directly to me. We have a 420 Quinny Renegade with a 50hp 4 stroke Yamaha and have to concur with a number of others (e.g. Noelm above + others). It is far from a rocket I can tell you. With just the 2 of us in the boat it is OK, but start adding more people and it really struggles to get up on the plane. If I was buying again, I would not go with this set up. I would probably agree with the poster above about matching motors with prospective usage.

Noelm
14-01-2017, 04:00 PM
My mates boat with the Honda is so much better than mine, but what pisses me off the most is, I had a choice between Honda and Yamaha, and chose the Yamaha, and I can tell you, for a 50, it is gutless, it goes OK, and with 4 people it is still OK, but it's just a slow old power sort of thing, whereas the Honda just zips along.

Lantana
14-01-2017, 05:57 PM
The choice of motor was very much mine, and it was the Yammy I wanted. I've considered some options of maybe getting it going, like a new 4 blade SS prop, but as I don't know whether this will do anything, or not, have have shelved the plan. It is an expensive option too not work any better. As it is nearly alway just the 2 of us, I live with it, but it has been disappointing to say the least. Another reason you should get in and really test a boat before buying, although in this bracket and price, it was not really offered. I don't think I am too old to learn (although some days I wonder!!), and I have certainly learned from this. Would not go a Quinny again either, but that is another story!!

gunna
14-01-2017, 06:51 PM
I have a 4.35 Clark Dominator with 60HP 4 stroke which goes like a rocket. You need at least 60.

Also consider side and bottom thickness. You want 3mm in both. Look for underfloor fuel, front and rear casting deck, rear splash cover, live bait tank and plenty of underfloor storage.

bluefin59
14-01-2017, 09:21 PM
Yeah 60 hP is the go for my 4.5 mt bluefin predator I run a 60 hP 2stroke and I could take 4 but 2-3 is the preferred option ,it's usually me and the misses it's been a great package for the last 13 yrs .... matt

Flex
15-01-2017, 02:39 AM
My mates boat with the Honda is so much better than mine, but what pisses me off the most is, I had a choice between Honda and Yamaha, and chose the Yamaha, and I can tell you, for a 50, it is gutless, it goes OK, and with 4 people it is still OK, but it's just a slow old power sort of thing, whereas the Honda just zips along.

Yamaha tend to make rather docile motors I feel. (I have a pair of f115's and they feel very sluggish.)

Be handy if outboard manufacturers published torque curves for motors (similar way 4x4 cars show Nm)
I think the smaller yamaha's have terrible torque and it really shows in comparison tests

Honda and Suzuki have a bit more technology in their 4 strokes (v-tec,lean burn etc) and tend to be zippier engines.

I hate to admit it, but this is one area e-tec needs to be pushing harder on. Generally torque curve of 2 strokes is much better than 4 strokes on outboards and perform better given similar HP rating.

Coontakinta
15-01-2017, 06:54 AM
I have a 4.29 Outlaw with a 50 Yamaha and it goes OK, my mate has the same boat with a smaller HP Honda and it leaves mine for dead, I think it's just that model Yamaha that is not so flash.

Apologies for taking this thread slightly off topic, but what is it that makes one better than the other in similar HP? Is it gear ratios or something else and without torque curves how does one decide on a suitable powerplant?

Berger4
15-01-2017, 09:07 AM
Sifor10 I had a Quintrex 455 topender with a 50hp Yamaha on the back it went really well with one or two but would start to be a problem with 3 depending on how big they are(apologies to all my fat friends for not taking you fishing), I now have a Cruise craft Lure with a 50hp 4 stroke Merc on it and the same thing, 2 up it is fine but 3 up it struggles. If I was looking at a similar sized boat as the Topender then as Bluefin said 60hp 2 stroke would be the best or 60 hp 4 stroke as a minimum. When my current 50hp Merc dies(ten years old now) I will be looking at 60 hp 4 stroke minimum, not sure what but may have a look at the Merc command thrust models, maybe somebody else can comment on these motors and gearing who has a better idea then me.

bluefin59
15-01-2017, 09:22 AM
Sifor10 I had a Quintrex 455 topender with a 50hp Yamaha on the back it went really well with one or two but would start to be a problem with 3 depending on how big they are(apologies to all my fat friends for not taking you fishing), I now have a Cruise craft Lure with a 50hp 4 stroke Merc on it and the same thing, 2 up it is fine but 3 up it struggles. If I was looking at a similar sized boat as the Topender then as Bluefin said 60hp 2 stroke would be the best or 60 hp 4 stroke as a minimum. When my current 50hp Merc dies(ten years old now) I will be looking at 60 hp 4 stroke minimum, not sure what but may have a look at the Merc command thrust models, maybe somebody else can comment on these motors and gearing who has a better idea then me.

Yeah mate I am much the same boat so to speak , if my 900 hr 2 stroke merc has a major which doesn't appear likely at this stage then at the moment a Honda 60 hP is high on my list of likely replacement and Gary on this site would be my go to for price and service as I have only read great things about his service and price .... Matt

Noelm
15-01-2017, 10:53 AM
Apologies for taking this thread slightly off topic, but what is it that makes one better than the other in similar HP? Is it gear ratios or something else and without torque curves how does one decide on a suitable powerplant?
I think it is just design, don't get me wrong here, my motor starts instantly, idles smooth and quiet, and when crabbing it is in and out of gear all day, and it goes great, 50 is the max HP for my boat, and the Yamaha is OK, and even with 4 or more passengers, it is still OK, but it is just a "soft" motor, if you get what I mean! (Still hate the tiller though) my mates (I think 40?) Honda is just a "nippy" motor by comparison, probably loaded to the max, my 50 might even be better, but when 2 people, crab gear and the esky, in identical boats, his is much quicker off the mark, and very similar top speed.

Flex
15-01-2017, 01:09 PM
Mostly comes down to CC of the block. Always go for the highest CC your boat can handle in weight.

Honda and Suzuki also do the v-tec/lean burn which makes for a slightly zippier motor I feel.

But mostly its CC of the motor.
For example the 40 etec has a larger block than the 40 yammie. Added to this its firing twice as much and it.'ll destroy the 40 yammy in performance.
The Suzuki and Honda are bigger motors than the yammie 40 so will naturally perform better.

So many people are brand loyal when it comes to boats/motors that's it often bites them in the bum.

check this out for an example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZvIw83uZgY

Sifor10
15-01-2017, 04:54 PM
From what I have heard, at the end of the day the cheaper servicing costs of the e-tec are offset by the expensive oil. 4 stroke is quieter and still wins out on fuel efficiency. That said, the e-tec will probably beat it out in terms of performance. I'm pretty much indifferent on them to be honest.

I'm leaning towards the e-tec at the moment only because it is coming with a better overall boat package - Stacer 429 seaway - yes I have moved a little from the open boat configs ;)