does etec/ opti max ecconomy really stack up against 4 strokes.

[lembo]

Hi guys

Just been servicing my twin 115 4 stroke yamahas and really bloody don't like working on outboards.
It got me thinking about the etecs and the minimal servicing is a big positive aswell as the 2 stroke torque.
I'm thinking of getting a smaller tinny next year and il be looking at anything from 50 to 90hp. and I never thought id say this but I'm considering an etec !!.
I'm not here to start an etec vs 4 stroke war and I know all the good and bad points.
I just want to keep it strictly fuel economy.
Has anyone got any real world fuel figures from comparitable horse power 4 strokes/ etecs or optis ?
I don't care if its 30 hp or 300hp. just preferably same or similar hulls.

[Badone]

Lembo, I own a 22ft Southwind. Just last year I replaced my 90 etec with 100 Honda. On a typical day off Moreton I used about 60 to 65l with the etec and about 50 to 55l with the new Honda. The Honda is better on fuel and it goes better but it was a fair bit more expensive. The 90 etec was a great motor ....

[Noelm]

Not exactly sure the servicing is "minimal" the only difference is the oil change, but the oil system still needs routine attention on a 2 stroke, either motor will be fine, but I don't think I would base my decision on some advertising service perception, you will need to add oil regularly which in some boats can be a pain, though a 90 has an engine mounted tank, fuel economy will be pretty even in either motors.

[Ocean_Spirit]

Noel, what servicing would you be doing on an ETEC oil injection system?

Fuel (and oil) burn would be hard to differentiate at that HP range. On a 40/50hp weight is also relevant in so far as economy and the ability to plane a hull at a more efficient cruise setting.

Servicing differences are more than just an "oil change". The 2S system has significantly less moving parts than a 4S. I have seen many ETEC's achieving 5 - 7 years between services without failure. I don't think you could achieve that on a 4S. The commercial engines here on Moreton Bay are easily matching the 4S's and more on longevity also.

Check the fine print on warranty if you intend to buy new and service yourself.

[gazza2006au]

One weekend out we returned to the boat ramp and over head a couple guys talking there Optimax one bloke said he went out to the FAD than done some trolling along the coast line and he had used something ridiculous like 22 litres!!!! i was like what the heck we use that just running around in the bay on a old 2 stroker

I love the look of the E-Tec but if anything goes wrong its a dealer repair job, they are technical and all computerized that dealers are meant to work on only

[BigE]

530 quintrex spirit with a 90 hp opti runs at 2 Kms to the ltr in rough and as good as 2.5 kms to the Ltr in good conditions, heap of punch have another one in a heart beat.

Had some four strokes on other boats don't think there is much in the fuel econ side of things but under 115hp range the DI 2 has the power edge, over 115 hp i don't think there is much difference in power just delivered differently.

BigE

[lembo]

maybe minimal was the wrong word. but every 300 hours servicing, my yamahas would have 3 to 4 services in that time. I know etec would require checks but so do my yamahas. and the 2 stroke torque is appealing, especially in the smaller hp since some small 4s can be doey.

I know etec resale is poor and well etec reliability is one of the most argued topics in boating history. thanks for the info regarding the Honda, I know the Honda 100 and zuke 90 are good motors and both have the oxygen sensor ( lean burn) and variable valve timing which make a huge difference in power and ecconomy I was just curious about the etecs. and chasing real info as I never trust the brochers.

[GBC]

It used to be that the 2 strokes had the edge in economy at cruise speed and the 4s took over at troll speed but I think the lean burn programs have closed the gap a lot. Our 135 optimax was great on fuel. The 225 ho Etec on the 680 Haines runs a km per litre from 35 - 55 kph. It has big hours but has suffered with leg corrosion issues.

[Triple]

Just make sure you factor in the amount required and price of recommended dfi opti oil or etec xd100 oil and any fuel treatment that you would want to use in a 2s like quikleen etc when doing the sums. Last bottle of opti oil was $120 for a 9.78L bottle and im averaging 60/1 burn rate and anywhere from 1.5 to 2km per l in good conditions.

[scottar]

One weekend out we returned to the boat ramp and over head a couple guys talking there Optimax one bloke said he went out to the FAD than done some trolling along the coast line and he had used something ridiculous like 22 litres!!!! i was like what the heck we use that just running around in the bay on a old 2 stroker

I love the look of the E-Tec but if anything goes wrong its a dealer repair job, they are technical and all computerized that dealers are meant to work on only

Plenty of guys do their own ETec repair work. The software is readily available for the G1 engines and all the info required for diagnosis can typically be sourced on the net.

[Noelm]

Noel, what servicing would you be doing on an ETEC oil injection system?

Fuel (and oil) burn would be hard to differentiate at that HP range. On a 40/50hp weight is also relevant in so far as economy and the ability to plane a hull at a more efficient cruise setting.

Servicing differences are more than just an "oil change". The 2S system has significantly less moving parts than a 4S. I have seen many ETEC's achieving 5 - 7 years between services without failure. I don't think you could achieve that on a 4S. The commercial engines here on Moreton Bay are easily matching the 4S's and more on longevity also.

Check the fine print on warranty if you intend to buy new and service yourself.
quite a difference between "attention" and "servicing" I didn't say it needed servicing, but if an owner didn't check now and then for (say) water in the oil container, maybe a loose hose or small leak, just routine "attention" and note I mentioned fuel use would be pretty close? Which was one of his concerns...even by your biased standards I didn't suggest an e-tec was inferior or not as good on fuel!

[Ocean_Spirit]

Re NoelM': 3 'expert' propositions:

1. Water in oil bottle - same risk on a 4S.
2. Loose hose - same risk on a 4S.
3. Cracked oil tank - same risk on a 4S.

These are not servicing items. Removing your cowl and routinely inspecting = preventative maintenance. The bottom line is the ETEC does equate to significantly less servicing.

About having to go to a dealer if anything goes wrong, I think you'll have the same drama with any modern 4S.

[VictorOscar]

I had a 90hp Optimax on a 5m CC.

I would average 2.5km/L

Would get it closer to 3km/L in protected estuaries such as Noosa or the Jumpin Pin.

In about 180 hours of use, I had bought 4 bottles of the Optimax oil, the forth being unopened and most of the third in the reservoir at the time I sold it.

[Noelm]

Re NoelM': 3 'expert' propositions:

1. Water in oil bottle - same risk on a 4S.
2. Loose hose - same risk on a 4S.
3. Cracked oil tank - same risk on a 4S.

These are not servicing items. Removing your cowl and routinely inspecting = preventative maintenance. The bottom line is the ETEC does equate to significantly less servicing.

About having to go to a dealer if anything goes wrong, I think you'll have the same drama with any modern 4S.
Jesus you can be a tool....read ATTENTION, never said service items, also never said an e-tec requires any amount of servicing, I said, I wouldn't base my purchase on service, but, read into It what you will, you always do, there's a knob in every crowd.

[gazza2006au]

Plenty of guys do their own ETec repair work. The software is readily available for the G1 engines and all the info required for diagnosis can typically be sourced on the net.

I'm a non qualified mechanic i often rebuild both 2 and 4 stroke outboards, i have owned a 75hp E-Tec and i have had the software i wouldn't touch it....

[DaveR]

Re NoelM': 3 'expert' propositions:

1. Water in oil bottle - same risk on a 4S.
2. Loose hose - same risk on a 4S.
3. Cracked oil tank - same risk on a 4S.

These are not servicing items. Removing your cowl and routinely inspecting = preventative maintenance. The bottom line is the ETEC does equate to significantly less servicing.

About having to go to a dealer if anything goes wrong, I think you'll have the same drama with any modern 4S.

Also consider that the Etecs are designed to run for a number of hours with no oil at all, should you have any kind of oil related issue. An oil starved 4 stroke (or simply old/bad oil) on the other hand will become an anchor very quickly. Sure this isn't a pissing contest, but there's always one or two folks trying to downplay Etec's servicing advantage.

I also didn't agree with the notion that you will be filling up the oil "regularly". Depending on usage, you might go for months without needing to top up. Quite common for anti-Etec/Opti folks to attempt to spread the impression that you'll be forever buying that "expensive 2 stroke oil", when in reality for most recreational users it's simply not the case. Most of these people have never owned an Etec, so they wouldn't know what real world oil usage is like to start with. Bottom line, Etecs do require less maintenance, there's no getting around that. I've had both 4 stroke and Etec, years have gone by where the 4 stroke didn't get much use, but I still needed to fork out for the yearly service to keep the warranty intact.

That said, I'd still jump either way. In that small category up to 90HP, the new 2.1L Mercury 4 strokes are one of the best new engine families I've seen in a while, very economical with heaps of torque (although I don't think anything will beat an Etec for trolling economy).

[Noelm]

Yep, agree with you up to a point, never said I didn't agree with most points, that said, not exactly sure about running for a number of hours without oil, perhaps some e-tec owning member might like to give it a go??

[Ocean_Spirit]

Noel - if you want to be a keyboard warrior and call me a knob for picking up on misleading statements, I'm happy to let you point score. If you have nothing constructive to add, stay out of the discussion.

I've offered an open invitation to meet those behind the products you constantly disparage and seek to allay your concerns. Alas, you retreat to your keyboard and throw stones.

[Noelm]

OK, I will type this really slowly for you, seeing as you don't seem to understand plain English, I did not disparage anything, just simply stated what my thoughts were, and still are, I personally wouldn't buy an outboard based on service intervals, you might, and good for you, that's your choice, warranty length might sway me, but not service, once again, listen really hard, I agree on most points, I said that before, now, are you , or anyone else, willing to let's us test your engine for a number of hours with no oil??

[DaveR]

I've actually experienced first hand an ETEC running on no oil (only reason I mentioned it otherwise I wouldn't have known), friend's rig with a 175, got the low oil warning earlier in the day off Garie but old mate was convinced he had a spare bottle of XD100 in the locker and insisted on running down the older oil a bit more before replenishing it with new stuff. Big mistake. Before we head back he goes to refill it and of course his spare bottle isn't where he claimed it would be. So we're just south of Garie (having come down from Botany), no phone reception and basically no oil.

Start heading back, low oil alarm is getting very upset, closer to Marley it ran dry, engine went into limp mode (basically idle RPM) which is all it will do on no oil. So shut it down, put out the sea anchor, radio Solander Marine Rescue, advised them of the situation, one of their operators commented it should still run, but that he'd ring the local service dept (assuming it was Hunts) to be sure. Radio'd back a couple of mins later, confirmed it would run without drama in a limited power state and that it was up to us whether we wanted an assist. So we went to Port Hacking in limp mode with no oil, took the better part of an hour because while they say it will run for a few hours with no oil, you're basically crawling so it takes forever.

He had that rig for another 3-ish years and probably 200 hours and never had subsequent dramas. I believe Evinrude will still warrant the engine with up to 5 hours runtime without oil (the engine logs this stuff) but I'm not sure I'd want to test it for that long. It's never a situation you want to be in, I think it's more of a safety mechanism so you're not stranded if the worst does happen.

[Greg P]

I know a few friends that have the Etec 90 and they are very happy with it. Pretty solid donk I think. Only issue one mate had was to do with some sensor in the oil system giving a false alarm and took engine to limp mode which was fixed under warranty quick smart.

Cant give any fuel comparison as they were all rigged new.

[stang69]

The good thing about Etecs is that there are heaps of parts available if you need them. No other late model outboards have as many parts on the 2nd hand market.
Which is weird since they are the lowest selling brand in Australia, even lower than Tohatsu.
Heres some if you need them:
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/carrum-downs/boat-accessories-parts/wrecking-evinrude-etec-engines-150-175-200-225/1131453622

[gofishin]

... I just want to keep it strictly fuel economy.
Has anyone got any real world fuel figures from comparitable horse power 4 strokes/ etecs or optis ?
I don't care if its 30 hp or 300hp. just preferably same or similar hulls.4 x same model 6.85m boat's (one being mine), all doing same trips over the last 7 or so years out of 1770. One has an E-TEC250 (around 2006, standard model, not HO), other 3 have the older Yam F250 3.3L V6 4-strokes.

Not all 4 boats at the same time, but mostly at least 2 or sometimes 3 doing same trips together with the E-TEC boat present.

Depending on whether it was a day trip or o/nighter, good or bad weather, and Boult area or Fitzroy etc, the E-TEC boat would always use 20 - 40L more than 4 stroke boats, or occasionally a tad more. Day trips 20-30L more. It was the lightest 'fitted out' of all 4 boats, and probably a lot of the time had one or 2 persons less on board than one of the others too.

4 stroke boat's would always be around 5-10L of each other. All 3 of the 4 stroke boats had trim tabs, the E-TEC boat did not (will make a difference with any motor).

I have heard that the 250E was not the better of the E-bunch in terms of economy comparison to 4 strokes, but not sure if this is true or not.
Cheers
Brendon


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[Ocean_Spirit]

A side deviation from this post - anyone have any inside knowledge as to why there were are a truckload of new in box ~200hp engines ex Japan recently destroyed at Port of Brisbane on arrival? Not even a part salvaged... a reasonably covert operation.

[pnp005]

The good thing about Etecs is that there are heaps of parts available if you need them. No other late model outboards have as many parts on the 2nd hand market.
Which is weird since they are the lowest selling brand in Australia, even lower than Tohatsu.
Heres some if you need them:
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/carrum-downs/boat-accessories-parts/wrecking-evinrude-etec-engines-150-175-200-225/1131453622

Hi do you mind directing me to the site/brochure that shows the sales by brand that your referring to, am curious to see the numbers.
Cheers

[Noelm]

A side deviation from this post - anyone have any inside knowledge as to why there were are a truckload of new in box ~200hp engines ex Japan recently destroyed at Port of Brisbane on arrival? Not even a part salvaged... a reasonably covert operation.
Nope, never even heard about it, but being destroyed either whatever was wrong it was cheaper than sending them back, or it was some sort of quarrentine issue (doubtful) is it confirmed it took place?

[Noelm]

. I believe Evinrude will still warrant the engine with up to 5 hours runtime without oil (the engine logs this stuff) but I'm not sure I'd want to test it for that long. It's never a situation you want to be in, I think it's more of a safety mechanism so you're not stranded if the worst does happen.
That would be a pretty damn interesting warranty claim.

[Triple]

I found it hard to believe too but clearly states this in the 2012 75-90hp manual.

"Your outboard is designed to run in “get home” mode for up to five hours in the event you run out
of oil. Refill the oil tank. Prime oil system. Refer to Priming the Oil System on page 17."

[DaveR]

The good thing about Etecs is that there are heaps of parts available if you need them. No other late model outboards have as many parts on the 2nd hand market.
Which is weird since they are the lowest selling brand in Australia, even lower than Tohatsu.
Heres some if you need them:
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/carrum-downs/boat-accessories-parts/wrecking-evinrude-etec-engines-150-175-200-225/1131453622

Evinrude actually do very well in Australia, no doubt helped by their partnership with Telwater, putting them on a lot of new transoms (vast majority of new Quintrex, Stacer, Savage, Yellowfin etc pre-rigged from factory) and also giving them a massive dealer network. Tohatsu aside, Honda or Suzuki would likely be the lowest sellers here. Overseas Evinrude don't have the same advantage, Yamaha and Mercury own a lot of transoms and Suzuki seem to do well in the repower market. But certainly in Australia Evinrude are one of the better sellers.

[stang69]

No, they actually sell poorly in Australia. The biggest Telwater dealers are mostly Yamaha and Mercury.

[scottar]

No, they actually sell poorly in Australia. The biggest Telwater dealers are mostly Yamaha and Mercury.

Based on sales by total unit numbers or sales against other clean tech outboards? The other brands, apart from Honda, still have old school two strokes which will account for a lot of sales courtesy of the smaller horsepower range if you are looking at units only. Take the old school two bangers out of the equation and the percentages will shift considerably at a guess.

[pnp005]

Still waiting on verification of your claims on Etec being the least sold motor.

[scottar]

Still waiting on verification of your claims on Etec being the least sold motor.

Don't hold your breath. Stang's love for "white" motors is well and truly documented.

[Spaniard_King]

A side deviation from this post - anyone have any inside knowledge as to why there were are a truckload of new in box ~200hp engines ex Japan recently destroyed at Port of Brisbane on arrival? Not even a part salvaged... a reasonably covert operation.

Keen to hear what went on in this event??

[Ocean_Spirit]

Garry - as am I. They weren't engines of your variety... I have heard what happened from a couple of sources in the industry now and all sources point to a manufacturing issue - they've done well to keep it under wraps. Question I ask is why you wouldn't salvage parts...

[Ocean_Spirit]

Is the "Stang / Stink" a Mercury / Haines Hunter dealer...?

[sandbank pete]

I've got the 2012 etec 130hp and lot of people are surprised by the quietness, performance and economy of this engine including me..
Whilst the engine has a three year/300 service interval, there is the recommendation that with saltwater use, to have the unit serviced at 12months, this is mostly a lower leg service with gearbox oil change. I mostly decided on the etec because of its weight advantage over the 4s.
Am I happy with the decision of buying it over a 4s? Yes. Would I repeat the purchase? In a heartbeat..

[Skusto]

Is the "Stang / Stink" a Mercury / Haines Hunter dealer...?

No not Mercury ocean spirit Yama hardness fan/dealer


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[stang69]

Etec owners are soooooo sensitive and insecure. But I would be too if I forked out hard earned money for something that is looked down on by most.
I don't have a dog in the fight, and there is no brochure or website showing sales figures. I'll give you a hint though. All outboards are imported.

[Force3]

Don't feed the troll

[Chimo]

http://www.thehulltruth.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=757590&stc=1&d=1481230191

[DaveR]

Etec owners are soooooo sensitive and insecure. But I would be too if I forked out hard earned money for something that is looked down on by most.
I don't have a dog in the fight, and there is no brochure or website showing sales figures. I'll give you a hint though. All outboards are imported.

You seem a bit insecure actually, it's like you go out of your way to have a dig at Evinrude? Not going to lie, I used to be a bit like you when I was younger, very tribal towards my 'favourite' brands, eventually you do grow out of it. In the real world, at the ramp everyone respects each other, Mercurys have the prettiest cowlings, Yamaha will run forever, ETECs have the most grunt, Suzukis very reliable, Hondas probably the quietest outboard on the water, blah blah. In recent years I've had Mercury, Yamaha & Evinrude, they're all great, you really can't buy a bad engine these days, although you do still find people online who remain stuck in that early 2000's era of 2 stroke vs 4 stroke, my brand vs your brand etc, most of us are mature enough to get past it.

[stang69]

I dont have a favourite brand of anything. Out of the 4 strokes I would happily choose either Mercury, Yamaha or Honda depending on the HP.
As for not being mature, at least I never resorted to name calling or directing any disrespectful comments towards any individual. All I did was have some fun at the expense of the least respected outboard brand in the country.
If that offended you then you are insecure.

[DaveR]

I'm not sure anyone here is/was actually offended, you'll just find that people tend to respect you less when they sense the pot is being stirred, which isn't necessarily anything to do with insecurity. Might be a case of the old saying, "talk s**t, get hit". Either way I think we're largely past the days of engine brand wars, they're all good these days and I don't think any sane person walks up and down the boat ramp parking lot getting offended at the sight of an ETEC or a Mercury or whatever brand he doesn't like for whatever reason. It's all a bit petty really.

[pnp005]

Given you can't back up any of your remarks with facts Stang best get a kayak lol

[gofishin]

Given you can't back up any of your remarks with facts Stang best get a kayak lolWhat if they only come in white...?? [emoji41]


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[scottar]

What if they only come in white...?? [emoji41]


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Provided the paddle isn't white, it should be ok.

[stang69]

A kayak would still get me home and not go into limp mode. A paddle is more reliable than a white motor.
This remark, as all my others, is a fact. I think you meant to say "proof". The proof is out there.

[Ocean_Spirit]

I'm not sure anyone here is/was actually offended, you'll just find that people tend to respect you less when they sense the pot is being stirred, which isn't necessarily anything to do with insecurity. Might be a case of the old saying, "talk s**t, get hit". Either way I think we're largely past the days of engine brand wars, they're all good these days and I don't think any sane person walks up and down the boat ramp parking lot getting offended at the sight of an ETEC or a Mercury or whatever brand he doesn't like for whatever reason. It's all a bit petty really.

Well said. Once you start to sling crap on a manufacturer (without hard facts), you're going to cop it. Many (good) Evinrude dealers I know are family owned businesses who have been loyal servants of the product (and are usually the guy fixing the big guys installation issues to keep customers on the water). Hearsay and hyperbole is damaging to these businesses and stems from a dark patch in Evinrude's history in the late 90's when the brand was owned by a different manufacturer. Every brand has had failures - Mercury's self detonating bluebands, Yamaha's self corroding aspros (the industry knicknamed these aids)...

The simple fact is, if the ETEC platform was a systematic failure, BRP wouldn't build them, or invest in a gen2 platform. They had 10 years of assessing these against a 4-Stroke alternative. The answer = G2. BRP have among the world's best marine 4-Stroke (German) technology at their disposal in Rotax.

[pnp005]

Strang a fact is something that has really occurred or is actually true. The usual test for a statement of fact is verifiability—that is, whether it can be demonstrated to correspond to experience. Standard reference works are often used to check facts. Scientific facts are verified by repeatable careful observation or measurement (by experiments or other means).

[Force3]

A week ago, at my local boat ramp, I saw 2 boats towed in. Both boats had Yamaha engines, that is a FACT but it does not mean that Yamaha outboards are rubbish. It just goes to show that all modern brands can have issues and that is another FACT.

[Noelm]

A week ago, at my local boat ramp, I saw 2 boats towed in. Both boats had Yamaha engines, that is a FACT but it does not mean that Yamaha outboards are rubbish. It just goes to show that all modern brands can have issues and that is another FACT.
I saw a boat towed in this morning, and it was a sail boat...fact! Not exactly sure what you are trying to imply, but I reckon that if you put an e-tec on a Seafarer, and towed it with a Jeep, the resulting "debate" would rage for 10 pages minimum

[inveratta]

I saw a boat towed in this morning, and it was a sail boat...fact! Not exactly sure what you are trying to imply, but I reckon that if you put an e-tec on a Seafarer, and towed it with a Jeep, the resulting "debate" would rage for 10 pages minimum

probably it was using ethanol laced fuel as well!!!!!

[Force3]

Noelm
I belive the implication (your word), is summed up very well in the last sentence. I''II repeat it for you in case you missed it, "It just goes to show that all modern brands can have issues and that is another FACT."

[DaveR]

They all have issues, particularly this time of year when many folks are taking them out for the first time in a while. There are some universal issues like batteries, fuel, etc that will obviously affect even the most reliable engines. Many times it's dodgy owners, not dodgy engines. I volunteer with Marine Rescue NSW and most of the assists/tows I've been involved in lately have come down to poor maintenance leading into Summer, as you'd expect. I can also tell you that while newer engines rarely misbehave, there isn't any single brand that stands out.

And regarding the discussion on sales, on a 10+ hour patrol possibly the most common late model engine I see in Sydney is either ETEC or Mercury. Might be proximity of dealers, I'm not sure how other regions stack up.

[scottar]

114970

Huh....Fancy that. A kayak (that's not white), with a broken down black paddle (with fully functional white parts) in limp mode. What's the world coming to. In between this and some of the commentary around here I'm going to have to sell both my motors. Gunna cost a fortune.

[Noelm]

The simple fact is, if the ETEC platform was a systematic failure, BRP wouldn't build them, or invest in a gen2 platform. They had 10 years of assessing these against a 4-Stroke alternative. The answer = G2. BRP have among the world's best marine 4-Stroke (German) technology at their disposal in Rotax.
while I can see that BRP could quite easily offer a 4 stroke outboard with their Rotax, I still kind of wonder if they have chosen the right option, I can see a possibility that they might just get out marketed, kind of like VHS and Beta?? regardless of the brand, very soon they will be the only manufacturer offering a 2 stroke! master stroke, or dumb ass?? only time will tell. Is it possible the decision makers at the top have read the market wrong, or are simply too scared to change direction now?

[ranmar850]

They are committed now , and obviously feel they have a market--to field a 4 stroke now would say a) we were wrong, and b) just another four stroke fighting for market share in a crowded market.
Time will tell.

[Noelm]

Yes, that's what I was getting at, BUT, are they committed because they think they are going to win market share? Or, committed because they are in too deep now to turn back? or maybe even just an executive decision based on history? who knows, but time will certainly tell, I personally am not 100% convinced the decision to run against the entire world market is a good one!

[Force3]

A bit like Apple and Android, I suppose. BRP certainly have a "Point of Difference" and I am sure that after investing millions into market research, BRP have taken the direction that they believe will pay dividends for the Company and its shareholders. The latest evinrude etec G2, love it or hate it is arguably the most innovative and advanced outboard on the market.

[Noelm]

Might be, but being "innovative and advanced" doesn't always win the market, the latest incantation hasnt exactly set the US market on fire yet. I guess (and I have nothing to base this on) if you look back a few years, Johnson had a 4 stroke with the Suzuki rebadging, and sales were pretty poor really, but then, it was pretty early days in the 4 stroke outboard days story, perhaps they saw low sales and a decision was made to try and get the DFI thing working properly, and that decision has stuck with them??

[stang69]

The 2 biggest outboard manufacturers on the planet have dropped and/or are winding down direct injected 2 stroke motors.
Just another fact.
Gen3 Etecs should be a rotary powered outboard, and come with free back up kayak paddles made out of admantium.
Gen4 will be just the paddles.

[Force3]

If it aint 4 stroke and fibreglass, it aint no good according to certain individuals who shall remain brainless, sorry I meant nameless.

[Fed]

Honda applied for some 2 stroke direct injection patents last year I wonder where theyre going with that?

[Noelm]

Yeah, true, but I can't imagine Honda being anything other than 4 stroke, Honda are a kind of funny brand, they have quality, reliability, good back up, but never seem to push their products, they just sell, year after year, where others have bogus tug O war adds, and stuff like that, Honda also seem to stick to what works for a very long time, and in some ways, are innovators, but don't tell anyone about it!

[Skusto]

It's because Honda don't need to as I was quite surprised when I found out the were one of the largest outboard manufactures world wide, surpassing Yamaha ;)


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[Noelm]

It's because Honda don't need to as I was quite surprised when I found out the were one of the largest outboard manufactures world wide, surpassing Yamaha ;)


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Yep, but, no one knows, there is no fanfare and dancing girls, they just keep on plodding along quietly selling quality motors through a fairly small network of usually well respected dealers.

[Noelm]

If it aint 4 stroke and fibreglass, it aint no good according to certain individuals who shall remain brainless, sorry I meant nameless.
I guess the same might be said to others who believe if it's not a 2 stroke or Aluminium it's just no good!

[stang69]

Oh my feelings are hurt, I am going to have a cyber fight with some words on my screen, maybe call someone names, get all defensive and weird.
Oh, no I'm not, I'm not that sensitive or insecure ;)
Honda aren't very big in outboard sales, but they are the largest engine manufacturer in the world.

[fishtragic]

I was pretty sceptical when I bought a Yamaha 200HPDI but the dealer that did a pre purchase inspection on the motor assured me that fuel economy was just a tad behind an equivalent 4 stroke Yamaha. I've put 1200 hours on it since then at an average of 1.7l per Nm at around 22Kn cruise, sometimes with a fair payload which doesn't seem to make a great deal of difference to economy. WOT is around 50Kn but I don't even want to think about fuel burn at that speed.

[Skusto]

Oh my feelings are hurt, I am going to have a cyber fight with some words on my screen, maybe call someone names, get all defensive and weird.
Oh, no I'm not, I'm not that sensitive or insecure ;)
Honda aren't very big in outboard sales, but they are the largest engine manufacturer in the world.

Unfortunately your actually wrong there Yamaha produce about 600k outboards a year where Honda make about a million outboards a year do some actual research and you might be surprised. ;)


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[stang69]

Skusto, where on earth did you get those figures from? I suggest you do some research.
There's not even a million outboards sold in total worldwide per year.

[SUPERDAFF]

I was pretty sceptical when I bought a Yamaha 200HPDI but the dealer that did a pre purchase inspection on the motor assured me that fuel economy was just a tad behind an equivalent 4 stroke Yamaha. I've put 1200 hours on it since then at an average of 1.7l per Nm at around 22Kn cruise, sometimes with a fair payload which doesn't seem to make a great deal of difference to economy. WOT is around 50Kn but I don't even want to think about fuel burn at that speed.
The HPDI are magic engines - economy from a 175 HPDI on a 625 is from 1.5 to 1.8km a litre at speed. The killer is if you take them game fishing - at 7knots, try 1km or 900 metres per litre in my case. Far more economical at 4,500rpm. But don't waste your time even thinking about fuel used per hour - it's how far you travelled in that hour. In other words, any calculation other than km per lite, or or nautical miles per litre or litres per nautical mile is just a waste. 100 litres per hour at 80km/.h is exactly the same as 50 litres per hour at 40km/h. Simples.

[ranmar850]

That was my major beef with the older 2 strokes vs 4 strokes--low speed efficiency is terrible. My old 90 hp Yamaha pushing a heavily fitted Qunitrex 600 navigator CC, flowed around 19 l/hr at 19-20 kts with full icebox, 150 litres fuel and 2 POB. But try trolling at 6-7 knots for sails --it needed to have the bow trimmed right down or it would break onto the plane, and you were using as much as 17 l/hr! even a slower troll was 14l/hr. F115 uses maybe a third of that, and goes 2.2 -2.4 km/l @ 20 kts

[Noelm]

The HPDI are magic engines - economy from a 175 HPDI on a 625 is from 1.5 to 1.8km a litre at speed. The killer is if you take them game fishing - at 7knots, try 1km or 900 metres per litre in my case. Far more economical at 4,500rpm. But don't waste your time even thinking about fuel used per hour - it's how far you travelled in that hour. In other words, any calculation other than km per lite, or or nautical miles per litre or litres per nautical mile is just a waste. 100 litres per hour at 80km/.h is exactly the same as 50 litres per hour at 40km/h. Simples.
Litres per hour is also a useful quantity, you may prefer litres per K, and thats fine, but it is not the only measure of fuel use.

[ranmar850]

Litres per hour is also a useful quantity, you may prefer litres per K, and thats fine, but it is not the only measure of fuel use.
I think the point he was making is that, if you are looking at travelling, litres/K or litres/nm is the most relevant measure. You can be burning 100l/hr, but, if you go 100 km in that hour, it is very good economy. 100l/hr @ 20knts/40km/hr, is, on the other hand , appalling.

[Noelm]

Yep, true, but how about (say) a pro boat that might idle or fast idle for hours pulling pots, the entire day might only be 50K distance, but the motor may have been running for 8-10 hours, the method of measuring fuel use is entirely personal.

[fishtragic]

At the risk of stating the obvious, good point about economy at higher revs Noel, given distance covered. Get from A to B fairly snappy at 50Kn but I couldn't do that to any engine. I know a few clowns that do and they change outboards fairly frequently. I'd rather keep the pistons inside the block, but that's just me. As for low revs, the HPDI uses bugger all trolling livies at idle all day but I'm sure it would be a different story trolling higher speed lures at 7 or 8Kn labouring just below planing revs.

[Lovey80]

Litres per hour is also a useful quantity, you may prefer litres per K, and thats fine, but it is not the only measure of fuel use.

I don't like litres per hour because it doesn't actually show the fuel efficiency or the work at those fuel usage rates. Two boats can average the same litres per hour but one could travel a lot further on the same usage. I like litres per km when it comes to discussions like this as it is pretty standard and gives everyone an idea. Using lph @ x kph and trying to compare it to the l/km hurts my tiny brain.

horses for courses other wise, what ever floats your boat.

[fishtragic]

I don't want to highjack the thread but who the hell navigates in kilometres and if you do, why? Don't see a lot of hydrographic charts in klm.

[ranmar850]

Plenty of people out there who wouldn't know what a Nautical Mile ( or fathom;D) is . They can set their plotter units to K's, so they do. Only using electronics, not an issue, and they do doubt never look at a paper chart.The Yamaha Command link gauges can display in L/M,so I do. My plotter units are NM and fathoms.

[Scott79]

I don't want to highjack the thread but who the hell navigates in kilometres and if you do, why? Don't see a lot of hydrographic charts in klm.

I use km, and I use it because it is both familiar and simple. In this day and age with plotters/navionics/software where you can choose whatever units of measurement you like, why not choose something that is easily recognisable and familiar? Especially when you look at how long you spend on land vs in a boat.
How relevant is it to actually be talking in units related to degrees of latitude, when you are using an electronic device for your location? When was the last time you had a paper chart out with a ruler/compass/divider to navigate to your favourite fishing spot anyway?
Not saying it is necessarily correct, but it certainly isn't wrong either. It is the same reason that some people still use feet / inches / yards / pounds.

[Steven78]

My 10 year old etec 90 on my galforce is still going strong. Been lucky no issues. Its going in for a service next week. Thinking of upgrading too. Been a long time member here. One of the reasons why i don't post as its gotten to political and becoming a flame fest. The old days everyone was mates. Anyway back to topic i am looking for a 90 that is lighter


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[Steven78]

I spoke too soon see my other post I guess rubber just drys out over time


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[Jabba_]

Lembo, I own a 22ft Southwind. Just last year I replaced my 90 etec with 100 Honda. On a typical day off Moreton I used about 60 to 65l with the etec and about 50 to 55l with the new Honda. The Honda is better on fuel and it goes better but it was a fair bit more expensive. The 90 etec was a great motor ....

22ft southward and only a 90/100hp motor... WTF does that boat even get on a plane

[scottar]

The UB's go alright with that sort of horsepower.

[ranmar850]

Scottars right, UB's are very efficient. When the 19's were first released, standard fitment was 50HP, max was 70HP. Both 2 stroke of course. I had an early release UB19 with a Yamaha 70, went 30 kts with easy 20kt cruise. The early UB 21's were a 70 standard/90hp max transom, and they went well, too.

[Chimo]

Etec 10 year warranty, they must be reasonably confident.

from THT
Originally Posted by Classic25 http://cdn.thehulltruth.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/813455-10-year-evinrude-warranty.html#post9860869)
http://www.evinrude.com/content/dam/...Conditions.pdf (http://www.evinrude.com/content/dam/evinrude/Global/MY2017/Documents/Owners/BEST_Contract_Terms_and_Conditions.pdf)

Am I reading that all routine maintenance has to be done at the dealer?
Or does that refer to recall's and service bulletins?


B.E.S.T. CONTRACT TERMS
PLEASE READ THIS B.E.S.T. CONTRACT CAREFULLY. IT CONTAINS THE ENTIRE AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE OWNER AND BRP AND PROVIDES THE COVERAGE FOR THE TERM THAT IS DESIGNATED IN THE DECLARATIONS. THIS B.E.S.T. CONTRACT SUPERSEDES ANY OTHER WRITTEN OR ORAL STATEMENTS MADE TO THE OWNER ABOUT THE COVERAGE UNDER THIS B.E.S.T. CONTRACT. THIS B.E.S.T. CONTRACT IS VALID ONLY IF APPROVED BY BRP, WHICH RESERVES ITS RIGHTS TO RATIFY OR NOT, AT ITS SOLE DISCRETION, ANY B.E.S.T. CONTRACTS.
DEFINITIONS
Here are the definitions of some of the key words used in this B.E.S.T. Contract (Key words appear in bold type in the body of this B.E.S.T. Contract).
Authorized Dealer:
means the BRP dealership authorized to sell this B.E.S.T. Contract and to repair the Covered Outboard under this B.E.S.T. Contract.
B.E.S.T. Contract:
means this BRP Extended Service Terms Contract.
BRP:
means BRP US Inc., unless defined otherwise.
BRP Limited Warranty:
means the manufacturer’s limited warranty which is issued with all new and unused Covered Outboards.
Covered Outboard:
®®
means the Evinrude E-TEC identified in the Declarations.
Declarations :
means that portion of this B.E.S.T. Contract containing information on the identity of the Owner, of the Covered Outboard, the description of the Covered Outboard, and the term and purchase price of the B.E.S.T. Contract.
Mechanical Breakdown:
means the breakage or failure of an original or genuine manufacturer part within a covered system as a result of a defect in material and/or workmanship.
Owner:
means the person named as Owner in the Declarations of this B.E.S.T. Contract.
Repair Costs:
means the applicable labor at the retail labor rate at date of repair, applicable replacement parts approved by BRP at the same established rate as for the regular warranty and applicable taxes incurred to repair a Mechanical Breakdown during the selected term of this B.E.S.T. Contract at an Authorized Dealer.
GENERAL PROVISIONS
This B.E.S.T. Contract between the Owner and BRP is applicable exclusively to the Covered Outboard which was purchased where the Owner resides and for use strictly in continental North America (including Hawaii, excluding Puerto Rico).

This seems to mean if you buy the engine in a state where you don't "reside" the warranty doesn't apply? That's curious language. I wonder why it's in there.

This B.E.S.T. Contract provides for reimbursement of any Authorized Dealer Repair Costs.

So you have to pay for your own repairs and then you get reimbursed?That's also curious language. Is that normal for BRP?

This B.E.S.T. Contract must be purchased in the country where the Owner resides and within the period of the BRP Limited Warranty.

So if you live in the Bahamas and buy your engine in the US, you have no warranty? That's also curious language. Is that normal for BRP?

BRP's responsibility is limited to making the required repairs or replacement of parts with new or BRP-certified re-manufactured parts. BRP reserves the right to exclude some models.

So BRP can retroactively exclude your engine if it becomes problematic nationwide? So this is a one-sided contract that they can get out of at any time. That would make me VERY nervous.

Product must be used for private or recreational use. Commercially used products are not eligible for coverage under this B.E.S.T. contract.

So the 1-year commercial warranty referenced above doesn't exist. If you use your engine in any way that generates income, you have NO warranty? That would make me VERY nervous.

The Product is used commercially when it is used in connection with any work or employment that generates income, during any period of time.

I take clients out on my boat all the time. It's not commercial fishing, but it does generate me income. I wouldn't technically have a warranty under this contract.

The Product is also used commercially when, at any point during the warranty period, it is installed on a boat that has commercial tags or is licensed for commercial use.

This is more in line with what I think of when I think commercial use.

OWNER’S OBLIGATIONS
1 Pay the first $50.00 (fifty dollars) in Repair Costs due to a Mechanical Breakdown covered by this B.E.S.T. Contract.
2 Operate, maintain, service and store the Covered Outboard in accordance with the appropriate procedures as specified in the Covered
Outboard Operator’s Guide. (Proof of maintenance may be required).

How in the world would you ever prove you "operated" in accordance with the appropriate procedures?

3 Ensure at all times that all BRP campaigns are performed on the Covered Outboard by a BRP Authorized Dealer.

Work on your own boat? No warranty.

4 Keep receipts and other records showing that proper maintenance and service as described in the Covered Outboard Operator’s Guide has
been performed.

Lose a receipt? No warranty.

5 Keep a copy of this B.E.S.T. Contract as evidence of Owner’s purchase of this B.E.S.T. Contract. Owner must show a copy of this B.E.S.T. Contract to a BRP Authorized Dealer to qualify for reimbursement of Repair Costs.

Lose this contract? No warranty. This is aggregious in my opinion, unless these motors don't have serial numbers that allow the manufaacturer to keep up with the warranteis.

EXCLUSIONS
The following are not covered under any circumstances:
a) Replacement of parts due to normal wear and tear;
b) Routine maintenance parts and services including but not limited to: maintenance requirements, lower unit oil changes, lubrication and linkage adjustments and replacement of fuses, zinc anodes, thermostats, starter motor bushings, trim motor brushes, filters, propellers, propeller bushings and spark plugs;
c) Damage caused by improper or lack of installation, maintenance, winterization and/or storage, failure to follow the procedures and recommendations in the Operator's Guide;

This is clause incorporates all of the procedures and recommendations in the Operator's Guide as requistes for warranty coverage. Depending on what those are, this could be quite onerous.

d)Damage resulting from removal of parts, improper repairs, service, maintenance, or modification, or use of parts or accessories not manufactured or approved by BRP, which in its reasonable judgment are either incompatible with Covered Outboard or adversely affect its operation, performance, or durability, or resulting from repairs done by a person that is not an Authorized Dealer;
e)Damage caused by abuse, misuse, abnormal use, neglect, racing, improper operation or operation of the Covered Outboard in a manner inconsistent with the recommended operation described in the Operator’s Guide;

Yikes. How would you prove you were innocent?

f) Damage resulting from external damage, accident, submersion, water ingestion, fire, theft, vandalism or any act of God;
g) Operation without proper fuel, oil or lubrication, or with fuels, oils or lubricants which are not suitable for use with the Covered Outboard (see
the Operator’s Guide);

Fuel or ethanol issue? Ran fuel of a different octane than in the Operator's guide? No warranty.

h) Damage resulting from rust or corrosion;

Wow.

i) Damage caused from cooling system blockage by foreign material;
j) Damage resulting from sand or debris in the water pump;
k) Cosmetic or paint changes due to exposure to the elements;
l) Upper and lower covers;
m) Cosmetics;
n) Rubber components including hoses; and
o) Accessories included with the Covered Outboard.

This coverage will be voided in its entirety and rendered null and void where:
a) Covered outboard has been altered or modified in such a way so as to adversely affect its operation, performance or durability, or change its intended use, horsepower or emission levels; or

Is this is broad enough to include over-propping? Could be.

b) Covered Outboard is or has been used for racing at any point, even by a prior owner.
ITEMS NOT COVERED
ALL INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, DIRECT, INDIRECT OR OTHER DAMAGES OF ANY KIND ARE EXCLUDED FROM COVERAGE UNDER THIS CONTRACT INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO: expense for gasoline, expense for transporting the Covered Outboard to and from Authorized Dealer, removal of Covered Outboard from a boat and reinstallation, mechanic’s travel time, in-and-out of water charges, slip or dock fees, trailering or towing, storage, telephone, cell phone, fax or telegram charges, rental of a like or replacement Covered Outboard or boat during repair services or down time, taxi, travel, lodging, loss of or damage to personal property, inconvenience, cost of insurance coverage, loan payments, loss of time, loss of income, revenue or profits, or loss of enjoyment or use of Covered Outboard.
TERM
Regular B.E.S.T. means the term of this B.E.S.T. Contract for the Covered Outboard is selected and designated in the Declarations. The term of this B.E.S.T. Contract commences at the expiration of the BRP Limited Warranty and ends at the expiry of the coverage after 24 months or 1,000 hours of operations in the lifetime of the Covered Outboard, whichever is the first reached.
LIMIT OF LIABILITY
1 BRP’s maximum liability under the B.E.S.T. Contract shall not in any case exceed the fair market value of the Covered Outboard at the time of the
repair of Mechanical Breakdown.

Wow. How much are these things worth 10 years from now? Not much I wouldn't suspect. Blow a powerhead in year 7-10? Sorry.

2 Neither the Authorized Dealer nor any other person has been authorized to make any agreement, affirmation or representation other than those
contained in the B.E.S.T. Contract and if made, such agreement, affirmation or representation shall not be enforceable against BRP or any other person.
PROCEDURE
The registered Owner must notify an Authorized Dealer within two (2) days of the appearance of a defect.

This is also egregious. Discover something on your boat on Saturday while fishing and don't notify your Authorized Dealer until Wednesday? So sorry. No coverage for you. You didn't jump through the flaming arbitrary hoops we set up for you.

Owner must bring Covered Outboard, including any defective part therein, to Dealer promptly after the appearance of the defect, and in any event, within the coverage period, and must provide Dealer with reasonable opportunity to repair the defect. The expenses of transporting the Covered Outboard to and from the Dealer for warranty service are to be borne by the Owner.
If the Covered Outboard has not previously been registered, the Owner may also be required to present proof of purchase to dealer for repairs.

Don't lose that receipt. Those other engine makers spoiled you keeping up with all these details for you.

Owner is required to sign the repair/work order prior to the start of the repair in order to validate the repair. All parts replaced under this coverage become the property of BRP.
The Owner must present proof of this B.E.S.T. Contract to the BRP Authorized Dealer prior to any repair and shall sign Authorized Dealer’s work order once repairs have been completed on the Covered Outboard. All parts replaced shall remain the property of BRP. In the event of a controversy or dispute arises in relation with the B.E.S.T. Contract, BRP suggests trying to resolve the issue with the Authorized Dealer. If further assistance is required, the Owner may write or contact the BRP Customer Assistance Center, Attn: BEST Contracts P.O. Box 597Sturtevant, WI 53177. Phone 1-847-689-7090.
CANCELLATION
BRP shall have the right to cancel B.E.S.T. Contract at any time in the event of fraud, misrepresentation or falsification of Declarations, if the Covered Outboard is repossessed or a total loss not resulting from a Mechanical Breakdown.

Yikes. Blown engine? Sorry, that wasn't from a mechanical breakdown. You have no coverage.

No other type of cancellation will be considered except where provided otherwise by law.
TRANSFER RIGHTS
To transfer this B.E.S.T. Contract, a transfer of ownership form (available on Dealer Port ) must be completed at a BRP Authorized Dealer. Upon completion of the form, the change of ownership will be automatically completed for the remaining term of the B.E.S.T. Contract.
STATE AMENDMENTS
This B.E.S.T. Contract is amended to comply with the following State requirements:
MASSACHUSSETS. The following wording is added: Notice to customer. The coverage you are buying is not required in order to register or finance a vehicle. The benefits provided may duplicate express manufacturer’s or seller’s warranties that come automatically with every sale. You can be required by the seller of this coverage to pursue those warranties which are available to you without this contract.
MAINTENANCE SCHEDULE
Routine inspection and maintenance is necessary to prolong Outboard life. The following provides guidelines for inspection and maintenance to be performed by an Authorized Dealer. Please refer to your Operator’s guide for details.
Outboards used in heavy duty or high hour applications require more frequent inspections and maintenance. Adjust schedule for operating and environmental conditions.
TM
Description
Engine Care Product
Every 300 Hours or Three years (1)
Electrical and ignition wires, inspect for wear or chafing
X
Engine to transom mounting hardware, re-torque (40 ft. lbs.)
X
Fasteners, inspect any loosened components
X
Fuel and oil system components, inspect and repair leaks
X
Fuel filter, replace
X
Gearcase lubricant, replace
A
X
Grease fittings, lubricate
C
X
Muffler foam, inspect and replace if necessary
X
Power trim/tilt system and fluid level, inspect
B
Propeller shaft splines, inspect and lubricate (3)
C
X
Spark plugs, inspect and replace if necessary (2)
X
Starter pinion shaft, inspect and lubricate
D
Steering system, inspect and lubricate
C
X
Thermostats, inspect (2)
X
Throttle cable, inspect and re-tension
X
Water pump, inspect or replace if necessary
X
(1) Average recreational use. Heavy use, or use in salt or polluted water requires more frequent inspection and maintenance (annual checks are recommended)
(2) Emission-related component
(3) Annually in salt water applications
A. HPF XR Gearcase Lubricant HPF Pro Gearcase Lubricant in high performance or commercial applications
B. Evinrude/Johnson Biodegradeable TNT Fluid
C. Triple-Guard Grease
D. Starter Bendix Lube ONLY, P/N 337016

[Steven78]

I think if you read the Merc warrantee or any car warrantee it would be much the same. You would be very surprised on what's not covered.


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[Spaniard_King]

Etec 10 year warranty, they must be reasonably confident.

from THT
Originally Posted by Classic25 http://cdn.thehulltruth.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/813455-10-year-evinrude-warranty.html#post9860869)
http://www.evinrude.com/content/dam/...Conditions.pdf (http://www.evinrude.com/content/dam/evinrude/Global/MY2017/Documents/Owners/BEST_Contract_Terms_and_Conditions.pdf)

Am I reading that all routine maintenance has to be done at the dealer?
Or does that refer to recall's and service bulletins?


B.E.S.T. CONTRACT TERMS
PLEASE READ THIS B.E.S.T. CONTRACT CAREFULLY. IT CONTAINS THE ENTIRE AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE OWNER AND BRP AND PROVIDES THE COVERAGE FOR THE TERM THAT IS DESIGNATED IN THE DECLARATIONS. THIS B.E.S.T. CONTRACT SUPERSEDES ANY OTHER WRITTEN OR ORAL STATEMENTS MADE TO THE OWNER ABOUT THE COVERAGE UNDER THIS B.E.S.T. CONTRACT. THIS B.E.S.T. CONTRACT IS VALID ONLY IF APPROVED BY BRP, WHICH RESERVES ITS RIGHTS TO RATIFY OR NOT, AT ITS SOLE DISCRETION, ANY B.E.S.T. CONTRACTS.
DEFINITIONS
Here are the definitions of some of the key words used in this B.E.S.T. Contract (Key words appear in bold type in the body of this B.E.S.T. Contract).
Authorized Dealer:
means the BRP dealership authorized to sell this B.E.S.T. Contract and to repair the Covered Outboard under this B.E.S.T. Contract.
B.E.S.T. Contract:
means this BRP Extended Service Terms Contract.
BRP:
means BRP US Inc., unless defined otherwise.
BRP Limited Warranty:
means the manufacturer’s limited warranty which is issued with all new and unused Covered Outboards.
Covered Outboard:
®®
means the Evinrude E-TEC identified in the Declarations.
Declarations :
means that portion of this B.E.S.T. Contract containing information on the identity of the Owner, of the Covered Outboard, the description of the Covered Outboard, and the term and purchase price of the B.E.S.T. Contract.
Mechanical Breakdown:
means the breakage or failure of an original or genuine manufacturer part within a covered system as a result of a defect in material and/or workmanship.
Owner:
means the person named as Owner in the Declarations of this B.E.S.T. Contract.
Repair Costs:
means the applicable labor at the retail labor rate at date of repair, applicable replacement parts approved by BRP at the same established rate as for the regular warranty and applicable taxes incurred to repair a Mechanical Breakdown during the selected term of this B.E.S.T. Contract at an Authorized Dealer.
GENERAL PROVISIONS
This B.E.S.T. Contract between the Owner and BRP is applicable exclusively to the Covered Outboard which was purchased where the Owner resides and for use strictly in continental North America (including Hawaii, excluding Puerto Rico).

This seems to mean if you buy the engine in a state where you don't "reside" the warranty doesn't apply? That's curious language. I wonder why it's in there.

This B.E.S.T. Contract provides for reimbursement of any Authorized Dealer Repair Costs.

So you have to pay for your own repairs and then you get reimbursed?That's also curious language. Is that normal for BRP?

This B.E.S.T. Contract must be purchased in the country where the Owner resides and within the period of the BRP Limited Warranty.

So if you live in the Bahamas and buy your engine in the US, you have no warranty? That's also curious language. Is that normal for BRP?

BRP's responsibility is limited to making the required repairs or replacement of parts with new or BRP-certified re-manufactured parts. BRP reserves the right to exclude some models.

So BRP can retroactively exclude your engine if it becomes problematic nationwide? So this is a one-sided contract that they can get out of at any time. That would make me VERY nervous.

Product must be used for private or recreational use. Commercially used products are not eligible for coverage under this B.E.S.T. contract.

So the 1-year commercial warranty referenced above doesn't exist. If you use your engine in any way that generates income, you have NO warranty? That would make me VERY nervous.

The Product is used commercially when it is used in connection with any work or employment that generates income, during any period of time.

I take clients out on my boat all the time. It's not commercial fishing, but it does generate me income. I wouldn't technically have a warranty under this contract.

The Product is also used commercially when, at any point during the warranty period, it is installed on a boat that has commercial tags or is licensed for commercial use.

This is more in line with what I think of when I think commercial use.

OWNER’S OBLIGATIONS
1 Pay the first $50.00 (fifty dollars) in Repair Costs due to a Mechanical Breakdown covered by this B.E.S.T. Contract.
2 Operate, maintain, service and store the Covered Outboard in accordance with the appropriate procedures as specified in the Covered
Outboard Operator’s Guide. (Proof of maintenance may be required).

How in the world would you ever prove you "operated" in accordance with the appropriate procedures?

3 Ensure at all times that all BRP campaigns are performed on the Covered Outboard by a BRP Authorized Dealer.

Work on your own boat? No warranty.

4 Keep receipts and other records showing that proper maintenance and service as described in the Covered Outboard Operator’s Guide has
been performed.

Lose a receipt? No warranty.

5 Keep a copy of this B.E.S.T. Contract as evidence of Owner’s purchase of this B.E.S.T. Contract. Owner must show a copy of this B.E.S.T. Contract to a BRP Authorized Dealer to qualify for reimbursement of Repair Costs.

Lose this contract? No warranty. This is aggregious in my opinion, unless these motors don't have serial numbers that allow the manufaacturer to keep up with the warranteis.

EXCLUSIONS
The following are not covered under any circumstances:
a) Replacement of parts due to normal wear and tear;
b) Routine maintenance parts and services including but not limited to: maintenance requirements, lower unit oil changes, lubrication and linkage adjustments and replacement of fuses, zinc anodes, thermostats, starter motor bushings, trim motor brushes, filters, propellers, propeller bushings and spark plugs;
c) Damage caused by improper or lack of installation, maintenance, winterization and/or storage, failure to follow the procedures and recommendations in the Operator's Guide;

This is clause incorporates all of the procedures and recommendations in the Operator's Guide as requistes for warranty coverage. Depending on what those are, this could be quite onerous.

d)Damage resulting from removal of parts, improper repairs, service, maintenance, or modification, or use of parts or accessories not manufactured or approved by BRP, which in its reasonable judgment are either incompatible with Covered Outboard or adversely affect its operation, performance, or durability, or resulting from repairs done by a person that is not an Authorized Dealer;
e)Damage caused by abuse, misuse, abnormal use, neglect, racing, improper operation or operation of the Covered Outboard in a manner inconsistent with the recommended operation described in the Operator’s Guide;

Yikes. How would you prove you were innocent?

f) Damage resulting from external damage, accident, submersion, water ingestion, fire, theft, vandalism or any act of God;
g) Operation without proper fuel, oil or lubrication, or with fuels, oils or lubricants which are not suitable for use with the Covered Outboard (see
the Operator’s Guide);

Fuel or ethanol issue? Ran fuel of a different octane than in the Operator's guide? No warranty.

h) Damage resulting from rust or corrosion;

Wow.

i) Damage caused from cooling system blockage by foreign material;
j) Damage resulting from sand or debris in the water pump;
k) Cosmetic or paint changes due to exposure to the elements;
l) Upper and lower covers;
m) Cosmetics;
n) Rubber components including hoses; and
o) Accessories included with the Covered Outboard.

This coverage will be voided in its entirety and rendered null and void where:
a) Covered outboard has been altered or modified in such a way so as to adversely affect its operation, performance or durability, or change its intended use, horsepower or emission levels; or

Is this is broad enough to include over-propping? Could be.

b) Covered Outboard is or has been used for racing at any point, even by a prior owner.
ITEMS NOT COVERED
ALL INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, DIRECT, INDIRECT OR OTHER DAMAGES OF ANY KIND ARE EXCLUDED FROM COVERAGE UNDER THIS CONTRACT INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO: expense for gasoline, expense for transporting the Covered Outboard to and from Authorized Dealer, removal of Covered Outboard from a boat and reinstallation, mechanic’s travel time, in-and-out of water charges, slip or dock fees, trailering or towing, storage, telephone, cell phone, fax or telegram charges, rental of a like or replacement Covered Outboard or boat during repair services or down time, taxi, travel, lodging, loss of or damage to personal property, inconvenience, cost of insurance coverage, loan payments, loss of time, loss of income, revenue or profits, or loss of enjoyment or use of Covered Outboard.
TERM
Regular B.E.S.T. means the term of this B.E.S.T. Contract for the Covered Outboard is selected and designated in the Declarations. The term of this B.E.S.T. Contract commences at the expiration of the BRP Limited Warranty and ends at the expiry of the coverage after 24 months or 1,000 hours of operations in the lifetime of the Covered Outboard, whichever is the first reached.
LIMIT OF LIABILITY
1 BRP’s maximum liability under the B.E.S.T. Contract shall not in any case exceed the fair market value of the Covered Outboard at the time of the
repair of Mechanical Breakdown.

Wow. How much are these things worth 10 years from now? Not much I wouldn't suspect. Blow a powerhead in year 7-10? Sorry.

2 Neither the Authorized Dealer nor any other person has been authorized to make any agreement, affirmation or representation other than those
contained in the B.E.S.T. Contract and if made, such agreement, affirmation or representation shall not be enforceable against BRP or any other person.
PROCEDURE
The registered Owner must notify an Authorized Dealer within two (2) days of the appearance of a defect.

This is also egregious. Discover something on your boat on Saturday while fishing and don't notify your Authorized Dealer until Wednesday? So sorry. No coverage for you. You didn't jump through the flaming arbitrary hoops we set up for you.

Owner must bring Covered Outboard, including any defective part therein, to Dealer promptly after the appearance of the defect, and in any event, within the coverage period, and must provide Dealer with reasonable opportunity to repair the defect. The expenses of transporting the Covered Outboard to and from the Dealer for warranty service are to be borne by the Owner.
If the Covered Outboard has not previously been registered, the Owner may also be required to present proof of purchase to dealer for repairs.

Don't lose that receipt. Those other engine makers spoiled you keeping up with all these details for you.

Owner is required to sign the repair/work order prior to the start of the repair in order to validate the repair. All parts replaced under this coverage become the property of BRP.
The Owner must present proof of this B.E.S.T. Contract to the BRP Authorized Dealer prior to any repair and shall sign Authorized Dealer’s work order once repairs have been completed on the Covered Outboard. All parts replaced shall remain the property of BRP. In the event of a controversy or dispute arises in relation with the B.E.S.T. Contract, BRP suggests trying to resolve the issue with the Authorized Dealer. If further assistance is required, the Owner may write or contact the BRP Customer Assistance Center, Attn: BEST Contracts P.O. Box 597Sturtevant, WI 53177. Phone 1-847-689-7090.
CANCELLATION
BRP shall have the right to cancel B.E.S.T. Contract at any time in the event of fraud, misrepresentation or falsification of Declarations, if the Covered Outboard is repossessed or a total loss not resulting from a Mechanical Breakdown.

Yikes. Blown engine? Sorry, that wasn't from a mechanical breakdown. You have no coverage.

No other type of cancellation will be considered except where provided otherwise by law.
TRANSFER RIGHTS
To transfer this B.E.S.T. Contract, a transfer of ownership form (available on Dealer Port ) must be completed at a BRP Authorized Dealer. Upon completion of the form, the change of ownership will be automatically completed for the remaining term of the B.E.S.T. Contract.
STATE AMENDMENTS
This B.E.S.T. Contract is amended to comply with the following State requirements:
MASSACHUSSETS. The following wording is added: Notice to customer. The coverage you are buying is not required in order to register or finance a vehicle. The benefits provided may duplicate express manufacturer’s or seller’s warranties that come automatically with every sale. You can be required by the seller of this coverage to pursue those warranties which are available to you without this contract.
MAINTENANCE SCHEDULE
Routine inspection and maintenance is necessary to prolong Outboard life. The following provides guidelines for inspection and maintenance to be performed by an Authorized Dealer. Please refer to your Operator’s guide for details.
Outboards used in heavy duty or high hour applications require more frequent inspections and maintenance. Adjust schedule for operating and environmental conditions.
TM
Description
Engine Care Product
Every 300 Hours or Three years (1)
Electrical and ignition wires, inspect for wear or chafing
X
Engine to transom mounting hardware, re-torque (40 ft. lbs.)
X
Fasteners, inspect any loosened components
X
Fuel and oil system components, inspect and repair leaks
X
Fuel filter, replace
X
Gearcase lubricant, replace
A
X
Grease fittings, lubricate
C
X
Muffler foam, inspect and replace if necessary
X
Power trim/tilt system and fluid level, inspect
B
Propeller shaft splines, inspect and lubricate (3)
C
X
Spark plugs, inspect and replace if necessary (2)
X
Starter pinion shaft, inspect and lubricate
D
Steering system, inspect and lubricate
C
X
Thermostats, inspect (2)
X
Throttle cable, inspect and re-tension
X
Water pump, inspect or replace if necessary
X
(1) Average recreational use. Heavy use, or use in salt or polluted water requires more frequent inspection and maintenance (annual checks are recommended)
(2) Emission-related component
(3) Annually in salt water applications
A. HPF XR Gearcase Lubricant HPF Pro Gearcase Lubricant in high performance or commercial applications
B. Evinrude/Johnson Biodegradeable TNT Fluid
C. Triple-Guard Grease
D. Starter Bendix Lube ONLY, P/N 337016


Be interesting to see if it comes in here.... dealers will be happy i.e all engines used in salt water will need to be serviced regularly

[fishing111]

Buying new isn't worth the hassle imo. Rather buy s/h and if i'm in the shit, i'm in the shit. Corporations/businesses will push you under a bus rather than honour warranty, or at the very least make your life hell until they do so. Not to mention the demands of the warranty where you MUST....bla,bla,bla!

Of course there are always exceptions, mainly if they see return business or if it hurts them if it gets out into the public domain. How many times have you asked a question along the lines of how often does X problem occur, and then get a response that it's the first time they've ever heard of it happening?

[Noelm]

Can't say that I axactly agree, at least you have a warranty, how many times have you heard of a second hand car/boat/motor being a heap, and the previous owner just unloaded his headache on you? most dealers are happy to do warranty work, remember they get paid to do it, warranty repairs are not at their expense, but, some decent dealers will fix odds and ends for free, even if it is not covered by warranty.