E-tec Gen 2 300hp

[kc]

I am repowering my reef boat with a Gen 2 300 hp. Anyone had any personal experience? Have read all I can about them and seem to get rave reviews. I have upgraded from a Yammy 250 as it was a bit under powered and having to work it too hard to get the boat to perform and fuel burn was horrendous. Only down side is I sold the yammy in 2 seconds after doing the deal and then got told it was an 8 to 10 week wait. There goes the mackerel season =(

Will throw up some pics and performance numbers as it proceeds

[Oceanic Dave]

Oh no! Can yo jump on a mate's boat? Or are you the mate they rely on? hehe

Looking forward to seeing the etec gen 2 on there and the stats! Hopefully it performs well on your boat!

[Noelm]

Haven't seen any "rave" reviews, except from paid adds and company advertising, don't even know anyone who owns one to give any sort of advice, that said, it will probably be great, why did you change from Yamaha?

[Noelm]

Just read my own reply, and it kind of reads like some sort of snide remark, I can tell you, it was not intended to be that way.

[PixieAU]

I'd be curious to know what "horrendous" fuel burn for a 250hp is.

[Skusto]

because it was an old carby 2 stroke by the sounds of it.

[scottar]

Can't comment on the 300 but if it's anything like the 200HO I had a play with briefly it should be a good thing

Bit of a thread on Continuous Wave

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/008171.html

[kc]

I have done all my "homework" on the usa sites. Also a few Australian sites have reviews. Seems to be a lot of them being used by the professional bass boats and bay skiffs and well as a few , often in twin and triple rigs on the big open blue water jobs the yanks seem to love so much. I have been a gen 1 etec owner and loved them, despite issues lots of other owners had. I always ran mine "easy", always used premium fuel and sold my 150 HO with 900 trouble free hours. I think the very fact that supply can not match demand is a pretty fair indication of the take up rate, even in Australia. 10 week waiting list!!

As to working the yammy too hard and the fuel burn. 250 came with the boat.. 235CC Triumph. Beautiful if somewhat idiosyncratic big beast of a thing, easily the best seakeeping monohull I have ever ridden in, but BIG. The somewhat unusual hull really needs to run at about 30mph to perform well. It planes at 24 MPH but it is very uncomfortable heavy plane, at 30 it sits lovely and just gets better and better right up to WOT.

The yammy, despite ever adjustment I could try, including foil, repropping , engine height adjustments needed to run at 5100 to get the boat to 30 MPH and at that speed it burns 70 litres per hour. To me that is way too much fuel, especially coming off my last etec which (and yes only a 150) gave me 27 litres per hour at similar speed on a 6 meter CC. Based on what I have found out on line I am expecting to get 30 mph out of the 300 etec at 4000 rpm and a fuel burn of 41 litres per hour, almost 1/2. The gen 2 etecs, according to fuel stats I can find, also don't seem to explode with throttle. My last etec was fine to about 3600 PRM, at 27 lph but every notch above that it loved the fuel, topping out at 56 lph at 5200. The new ones seem to have a much steadier fuel burn right through the rev range, topping out at 5800 rpm and 80 lph and even my hull should get close of 44 or 45 mph at that level. I expect the etec at WOT to run around 1.8 litres per mile and the yammy at 5100 was using 2.4 litres per mile. Don't even want to think about the yammy at wot. 89 litres and 35 mph (2.6 lpm). Apples to apples I am hoping for 30 MPH out of the etec at 1.36 lpm compared to 30 mph from the yammy at 2.33 lpm. If I get those sort of numbers I will be a very happy little fisho. I do 200 hours a year so looking at a fuel save of around $9000 a year if those are the numbers.

To clarify the yammy was a 2007 250 4 stroke with 90 hours in it when purchase and 270 when I sold it last week.

[kc]

113550113551

Before pics.

[kc]

Thanks for site Scot. fascinating data set and confirming, given the size and weight of the test boat, I can expect to get my cruising speed at around 40 lph which would be remarkable compared to my Yammy.

[scottar]

I was blown away running my Victory next to the refitted Venom centre console I was involved with. Both running 200HO's but mine is a Gen1. Even with my boat having tabs and a foil to get a better planing attitude at 3-3500 rpm the G2 was using half the fuel I was. If you get the opportunity to try one, also consider a Rebel propeller. Not sure how it directly compares to the new RX4 but I recently got one and against the Viper (horrible consumption midrange) and the old OMC Renegade Offshore 4 blade, I have got at least an additional 10-15% better fuel economy at mid range rpm - occasionally more.

[kc]

Thanks Scott. I am committed now and all I will be able to do is report on the "lived experience" of a Gen 2 300 compared to a 250 4 stroke yammy. I have just formed a view that the 250 Yammy was just not enough grunt for this boat. I was hoping someone out in Ausfish land owned one but I have locked in on the purchase and just have to wait the 9 more weeks to get it fitted. Really liked the hard data on the site you linked and this just reconfirmed everything I had already read. A fuel burn of 38.23 lph at 4000 revs. If this rev band generates my 30 mph cruise speed I will be over the moon. These seem to be the new standard in fuel economy and if the hype is true, it is the reason for a 10 week waiting list to buy one. One of the fuel burn graphs on that web link are showing a troll speed fuel burn 75% better than the competition. The test boats on that site (Ranger 24's) are similar overall size, less deadrise and 200 kgs lighter so I am not expecting the top speed (52 mph). It is all about lph and cruising speed. Interstingly WOT for both motors is 89lph so an increase in top speed of even 10% is a fuel economy of 10% and I expect a top speed increase of almost 20%.

[scottar]

It's a lot to do with the prop as well - my rig came with the Viper fitted and would plane "bow up" until I was over 3500 rpm - by which time I was traveling too quick for rough conditions. Under 3500 with a bow up attitude I was burning a litre every 600 metres. Fitting a foil and tabs improved this to about 1km/litre. With the Rebel, the same speed is achieved at a much lower rpm using a litre every 1.25-1.4 km depending on conditions and the foil has been removed. Just something to keep in mind if you don't get the numbers straight up.

[kc]

Thanks mate,

My fit out guy is a bit short on prop expertise but overall a great local dealer. Will look for prop advice if I don't get the performance I am hoping for.

kc

[gofishin]

Interesting way they extended the XL transom height to suit an UL shaft, but I guess it works. [emoji4]

Keep us posted on the performance and fuel burn when you get the G2 please kc.

... Don't even want to think about the yammy at wot. 89 litres and 35 mph (2.6 lpm)....
... I do 200 hours a year so looking at a fuel save of around $9000 a year if those are the numbers.

To clarify the yammy was a 2007 250 4 stroke ...To save $9k a year from 200h p.a., at $1.30/L you would need to be using ~35L/h less on average, for every one of those 200h. Are you sure you will save this much kc ? (Well, it is an Origin night, so maybe beers affected my math, but don't think so ... )

I have read of some pretty frugal fuel burn figures on THT for the G2 300, but that is one hell of a predicted saving. If true we all may end up buying one [emoji1].

Re the yammy, sounds like it might have had some tweaking, or more so something wrong with it! The 3.3L aren't as strong an engine as the 4.2L V6's, but something doesn't sound right with it.

At that age it would have been an F250A, and never heard of one sucking over 85L/h. I can't get mine over 84.6, same as a few mates, and from memory around 80L/h was the nominal rated consumption at 6k. The F250B may have sucked a few more L/h, because I think they tweaked a few more HP out of it, not 100% sure, but I guess it doesn't matter now regardless [emoji1].

Anyway, that is a decent lump of a boat, so the G2 3-hungy should make her perform very well.

Keep us posted.

PS, never even seen a G2 round Brissy yet, except at boat shows.

https://www.yamaha-motor.com.au/sites/yamaha-motor/files/Haines_Hunter_680_Patriot_F250.pdf

https://www.yamaha-motor.com.au/sites/yamaha-motor/files/Cruise_Craft_Outsider_685_F250.pdf

[kc]

Thanks gofishin, and yes the fuel save is an overestimation and would be based on all my hours at cruise speed but I do a lot of long runs. Most of my days are close to 6 hours runs 70 plus miles each way plus a bit of running around out there,and not much trolling but even if I can save $5K a year the motor pays off in fuel save alone while still under warrantee (buy prices less what I got for the yammy). The bracket extender on the back was something I had manufactured locally tinkering with the yammy and trying to get performance, Boat came with 30 inch leg yammy which was buried deep in the water and considered one of the potential performance issues but raising it didn't help much. That extension is coming off and fitting the etec with 25 inch leg on original transom mounts. Very seldom ran the yammy WOT and got those numbers off the net.but it is more the burn at 5100 cruise speed which was my issue and this burn was confirmed time and time again at the bowser. Carrying 400 litres under the floor and didn't feel safe running without at least 50 in jerry cans doing a wide trip. A very normal day of a 140 to 150 mile round trip had me running on fumes and the refills, logged as I tinkered with props, foils and heights ran between 340 and 390 litres a trip over a run of more than 20 trips. I guess this thread will die off now. I had hoped to find an ausfisher who had one but I will bump it back up when the re-fit starts with some photos and fuel/performance numbers. I should add I have nothing against the Yammy. I have a 60 hp 4 stroke on my creek boat and it is flawless and very cheap to run. I just think the big boat is underpowered with the 250 and having to work really hard in the upper quarter of its rev band is what has lead to the economy issues.

[stang69]

Those plastic hulls drag. Soft riding, but not the most efficient. You will never get as good fuel burn figures as a glass boat of equivalent size and weight.

[kc]

Certainly a consideration and sure you are right in respect of "drag" on the water. I get a maximum of about 37 MPH with a light load with the Yammy 250 and mates with similar size/weight glass rigs get 42 or 43 MPH so I am assuming about 15% efficiency deficit with the big plastic. Ride however is out of this world and having ridden in most of the big yank CC's, including Grady Whites, Boston Whalers, Contenders and Seafoxes as well as the old Austraian formula hulls, nothing comes even close to the Triumphs in terms of softness in sloppy sea conditions. The hull flex is liking having offroad shockies built into a boat. I am hoping for 44/45 MPH WOT with the etec. Same motor on a ranger of same length and weight is getting 52 MPH so I hope I am being realistic. Just a pain in the #$@ having to wait 8 more weeks to find out. =(. No macks for me this year
113577

[Lovey80]

That is a HORSE. I recon I've landed one that long but no where near as fat as that one.

[kc]

47 kgs.....biggest one I have ever seen, let alone landed.

[myusernam]

Certainly a consideration and sure you are right in respect of "drag" on the water. I get a maximum of about 37 MPH with a light load with the Yammy 250 and mates with similar size/weight glass rigs get 42 or 43 MPH so I am assuming about 15% efficiency deficit with the big plastic. Ride however is out of this world and having ridden in most of the big yank CC's, including Grady Whites, Boston Whalers, Contenders and Seafoxes as well as the old Austraian formula hulls, nothing comes even close to the Triumphs in terms of softness in sloppy sea conditions. The hull flex is liking having offroad shockies built into a boat. I am hoping for 44/45 MPH WOT with the etec. Same motor on a ranger of same length and weight is getting 52 MPH so I hope I am being realistic. Just a pain in the #$@ having to wait 8 more weeks to find out. =(. No macks for me this year


hey i checked out the triumph website and they only show models up to 18'6 now. Did they stop making the bigger ones? Yours is bigger?

[kc]

Yes, stopped making them in early 2008. Company changed hands and new company did not have a big enough oven to cook them in (yes, kid you not, they are poured into a mould and baked like a cake). There are not many around, 3 or 4 in Australia and 3 for sale on USA boat sites. Good ones still sell in the US for $35 US which is about what they sold for new. They are an amazing if somewhat quirky thing to drive but seahandling is like no other monohull I have ever been in.

[kc]

http://usaboatreview.com/archives/2009/09triumph-235/09triumph-235.html

[scottar]

Some interesting performance bulletins on a similar albeit glass hull compared with twin 150 and twin 200 four stroke yammies. Done by the boat manufacturer so would hopefully be unbiased.
http://www.scoutboats.com/boat-models/255-lxf/#255lxf-performance

[lembo]

the G2 etecs do look like a good thing and hopefully evinrude can rid themselves of the bad reputation they have. like mercury and the "black anchor" reputation from the old days. evinrude are definitely a very innovative company, I really like the look of the new rigging and steering of the new etecs, they are definitely claiming some awesome figures, and you cant deny the 2 stroke torque is a good thing. Can anyone shed some light on what has changed internally on the G2 etecs to give this extra efficiency ? and do you think any of these changes would increase reiabilty/longevity ?

[kc]

Scouts are beautiful boats. had a good look at one when I was shortlisting for my current boat but in the end, despite the idiosyncracies the Triumph, for me, won a battle between Grady White with a 200 Yammy, big Seafox with dual 115 Suzzi's and a lovely Seapro. with 250 Verado and all the "gear". Second guessing now maybe the Grady (2 years older) was also a good deal but the Triumph is hands down the best ocean going hull I have ever ridden in and the extra grunt of the 300 Etec will, I hope, deal with my performance issues. I know the old eetcs had a dud reputation but my last 150 ran for 900 trouble free hours and was still like new when I sold it. Always used premium fuel and never flogged the thing.

[Daintreeboy]

Keen to see the outcome of this. And also very jealous of that boat. 😬

[The Woo]

Nice boat, good choice of donk for it too I reckon. The G2 has a LOT of torque, just what that boat needs.

That Spaniard - Godzilla indeed. WOW!

[myusernam]

Can u flesh out tge idiosynchrocies? Is it just tge flex\drag or are there others? The g2 seems like it will be great. Interesting to see oil use and see if they have lowered the ratio for the larger engines. The g1 250 chewed the xd100

[Camhawk88]

Yep that would be my biggest concern too- oil use. Owning a pair of Opti 90s, that is the biggest issue for me. A 300 G2 would be nice but only to be stuck with the same problem.

[kc]

On the homework I have done I am expecting an oil burn of about 1 litre per 3 hours cruising at 34 mph :: about 15 cents a mile or $5 an hour. I am expecting about 30 litres an hour fuel save compared to the Yammy 250 at cruise speed for the boat so $45 an hour fuel save offset by a $5 an hour oil burn = happy days. The 350 ml an hour oil burns number is a "running in" figure and should reduce after 20 hours, but, my previous etec experience on my 150 HO was an increase in oil usage as the motor got older.
As to the idiosyncrasies of the hull the biggest issues are slow speed wander and lying on their side under power, both a result of the very sharp entry V. It can be really alarmingly when under power if not trimmed properly or if weight is badly distributed with a big load up front. First few times I used the boat it scared the hell out of me but with a bit of time and practice it is just a matter of setting trim tabs and motor trim before planting the throttle. The boats are also sensitive to moving the weight around when running and need trim tab adjustment for even modest movement of weight (a bloke moving around for instance). I believe this is aconsequence of the very deep V but the trade-off is the softest mono hull ride in any sea conditions I have ever been in. It takes a sea head on like a boat 15 foot longer and 2 tonnes heavier and does it at twice the speed.

[kc]

:):D:) Dealer sourced a motor interstate and will arrive next week:D . Fit out starts on 8th and should be sea trialling on 11th or 12th. Will post some photos and "numbers" as it moves along. Mackerel still on the chew and life is good.

[kc]

=( a sad tale of the refit. New motor arrived seriously damaged in transit. Now back to waiting for September 2nd shipment to arrive and mid September job. Bugger.

[kc]

The eagle has landed. Fit out starts Friday

[Chimo]

Looking forward to see how it goes.

Good luck with the fit up.

Cheers
Chimo

[kc]

Me too. I will post some pictures of the rigging and sea trial as well as the numbers. This is a big spend (in part because I had to buy the wife a new car to soften her up for the new motor) and I am expecting a very good set of numbers when it hits the water. I have 2 years of data from the 250 Yammy and want to see 30% better at least fuel burn and an extra 7 to 10 MPH top end speed. It is however all about fuel burn at cruise speed as well as shot hole for me, not about WOT.

Kev

[scottar]

not about WOT.

Kev

Who you kidding;D. It's always about WOT. If it wasn't...... you'd have bought a sailboat LOL. You must be like a kid licking the candy store window at the moment. Have you given your dealer the sh*t's yet? Pretty sure I probably would have.

[kc]

Yeah OK, OK, maybe just a little bit about WOT. My last etec 150 was sold with 900 hours and a total of 11 minutes at WOT. What I really want is range at decent speed. If I can get anything above 30 MPH and still be running in the order of 40 LPH I will be stoked. As to WOT. Thinking maybe 45 to 47 MPH (up from 37 with the Yammy)114156

[gofishin]

... As to WOT. Thinking maybe 45 to 47 MPH (up from 37 with the Yammy)Assuming both donks develop 'sticker HP', and setup, prop slip etc are all the same, your 300 won't give you any more than 40.5 mph kc, as per the speed-power square rule.

However, from memory the 3.3L V6's only put out around 240HP, so assuming that the G2 is 300 exactly that gets you to 41.4mpg.... still short!

That being said, 37mph does sound slow, even though those boats are hard to push. Maybe that ULS on an XL transom might be a factor. Did you ever work out the prop slip calcs for your 37 mph kc ? It just sounds too slow even for your boat (i.e. like something wasn't quite right with the setup/donk etc).... but I guess we will find out soon enough when you get that beast bolted on :)
Cheers
Brendon

[kc]

Thanks Brendon for your interest. Prop slip and the technical details are well above my "pay grade". I'm in the "pay the money to the experts and see what happens" class and tried everything with the Yammy to little avail. It was a dealer set up boat (in the US)and why on earth it was setup with a 30 inch leg on the Yammy I can't say. I lifted the motor (as you can see in the photos) put on a foil, went through 3 props and while the last prop was about the best overall, it achieved 5500 RPM and 37 MPH at full hammer, that said, always with pretty big gear loads. Factory specs say I should have been getting 41/2 MPH at WOT but think that was on a boat without the windage effect of the T-top, plus mine had a big min kotta plus the extra battery weight. At issue, in my unqualified opinion is that the boat was simply underpowered. Any motor having to work within 10% of WOT to get the boat cruising at a reasonable level is just not enough grunt. I am expecting, based on all I have read, that the additional tourque, coupled with the grunt of the RX4 prop will revolutionise the performance. Trouble is I have nothing to compare to and I can't find a single one of these unusual hulls married to an Etec 300 even in the USA, let alone Australia. I am hoping it will be a game changer, and I guess I will know in a week or so. Anecdotally the 300 Etecs are putting out 325 HP but without any hard data that I can find. They are outperforming 350 Verados, set up on identical Ranger 25's in apples to apples set ups, not only getting higher WOT speeds but killing them on fuel numbers.

[kc]

In she goes.

[myusernam]

Hulls not bent from sitting on a trailer wrong or something?

[kc]

No. Hull is fine and a factory set up trailer. On another note I just called in to see how it is going and the mechanic was just finishing lunch. Hope he washes his hands before starting back =)

[gofishin]

... went through 3 props and while the last prop was about the best overall, it achieved 5500 RPM and 37 MPH at full hammer, that said, always with pretty big gear loads...Well maybe there is one or three of your mph there (due to short on rpm's). Do you remember what type/model/size of prop you got this with?


... Anecdotally the 300 Etecs are putting out 325 HP but without any hard data that I can find. They are outperforming 350 Verados, set up on identical Ranger 25's in apples to apples set ups, not only getting higher WOT speeds but killing them on fuel numbers.If 325 is the number you are getting closer, now @ 43mph. Add on another 3mph to the 250's 37mph for a better matched prop, and with the new 325(?) ponies you're at 46.5mph ;D.

Yes, i have read some pretty good numbers from the G2's on THT, so will be very interesting when you get some numbers from the new beast.
Cheers

PS. Nice looking lines on the hull, and looks like a very deep Vee from that transom pic too. I can see she would need some ponies to get her going.

[kc]

Thanks mate,
really appreciate your interest and expertise. My dealer is a great bloke and gives great service but I know propping is a dark art and we have never got the best out of either of my last 2 boats. On advice from a number of guys, including the etec owners moderators we are starting with RX 4 18's but also have an RX4 20 on standby.

Kev

[gofishin]

I know nothing about the RX4's Kev, but a 20" sounds way too big for a 1.85 ratio donk(?) on a boat that is hard to push (slowish), and a donk that is recommended to achieve ~5800 heavy trim!

Will need to crunch some numbers to confirm my suspicions, but it's too late now, gotta catch some zzz's :).
Cheers
Brendon

[kc]

Developed by BRP specifically for the Gen 2's. With the exception of a few of the really high speed bass boats, these seem to be the props almost every Gen 2 is running and the 18 was first pick due to the type and weight of hull. It is expected to be the right prop.

[gofishin]

Do you know what size and type of prop got you your 37mph @5500 Kev? This data is from your boat, and although there are some questions re 'was there any contributing factors to why the speed was seemingly down', this known data from your boat is by far the best method to make an educated guess as to what pitch range will best suit the new 3-hungy beast.

The G2's gear ratio is turning its prop 8% faster than the F250 at the same revs, so straight away you need 17% more power to push the same size prop at the same engine revs (assuming slip remains the same).
Cheers

[kc]

Will see if I can find the "numbers' for the old prop.

Kev

[kc]

She's on. Still all the rigging and electronics to go but a good start. Chubby=)

[Chimo]

KC

Looks the goods.

Be interesting to see if the motor is at the correct height first up.

Cheers
Chimo

[kc]

Agree. Dealer seems pretty confident and have worked off the previous Yammy heights and come up about an inch (allowing for the 30 inch yammy leg and the plate I had made to raise the yammy up higher. Motor also sits a bit further back off the hull. Almost like a mini pod. Some chance of getting on the water Friday but more likely Saturday arvo or Monday.

Kev

[Chimo]

Get the dealer to take you out when they do a test run, you wouldn't want to miss that! The Cannonvale mob must be selling a few G2s by now !

[kc]

Not yet. They have done a 250 and have another 200 rigged on a demo. This is the first 300 but a few people are watching over my shoulder to see what numbers she posts, particularly fuel burn and oil consumption. We run a long way to the reef here and a big day can run to 150 plus miles out and back when we get serious. Stuck up a "before" and "during" for the dash/helm as well. After will be a day or 2

[Jabba_]

She's on. Still all the rigging and electronics to go but a good start. Chubby=)
The Gen II Etec is one hell of a sexy looking motor, and has the power and economy to boot.. If I still had my seafarer, I would definitely be putting a Gen II on it

[kc]

I have left the long suffering mechanic pretty much alone today...pretty much. It was all the boring stuff anyway like running the cables and wires and looms. he should be fitting the controls and new dash tomorrow so will get some more pics but I do have a few work commitments tomorrow (god forbid). Sea Trials, in all probability, will be Monday. Only job not done will be the new Minn Kota, which has actually taken longer than the motor to get here =(. Minn kota talk a good talk, but, really have not delivered. This may be a supply and demand issue and a bit like the etec , a sign that they are so good they can't make them quick enough. Would have been better to be honest up front, rather than overpromise and under-deliver. At least Etec advice was straight up front "8 to 10 weeks". The Minn Kota has been "soon" for over 2 months.

[Nick H]

Apples to apples I am hoping for 30 MPH out of the etec at 1.36 lpm compared to 30 mph from the yammy at 2.33 lpm. If I get those sort of numbers I will be a very happy little fisho. I do 200 hours a year so looking at a fuel save of around $9000 a year if those are the numbers.

Hi KC,

At 2.33L per mile that is quite good fuel consumption for a heavy boat running at 26knots (unless I'm reading the figures wrong). I have the new 225 V6 yammi on a 6.5 meter plate boat and we use about 1.3Litres per Km which is not far off these figures thats running in a sea. If you look at the performance bullitens yamaha claim much better fuel economy, as the testing is done on a boat with 100 litres of fuel on the bay. It will be interesting to see if the figures are close to what they claim. I went from a tinny to my new boat and it took me about 6moths to come to terms with the fuel usage, now I don't even think about it as it is what it is. I'm looking forward to hearing the outcome!!!

Cheers Nick

[scottar]

Km/litre or Litres / km Nick ?

[kc]

Apples to apples I can confirm the 250 Yammy was burning 1.46 litres per kilometre.and I am hoping to see about .85 of a litre per kilometer with the etec. A game changer. This is contingent on getting my speed at 4000 rpm with the etec compared to 5200 with the yammy.

[gofishin]

Km/litre or Litres / km Nick ?I was thinking the same thing Scotty. If the units weren't mixed up that is pretty bad economy Nick...?? Well unless you always go out with 4 other blokes and 200kg of ice, then come home with another 200kg of fish :) .
Cheers

[kc]

OMG. How is this for clean rigging. That's the lot. Power, throttle, gears, trim and steering, all in those 4 wires. Nothing laying in the well, just 1 tube and open space.

[kc]

This worries me a little. The 1kw transducer for the Furuno 588 is a huge brick of a thing and will maybe throw some serious spray. Have already decided, subject to sea trails, to raise it above planning waterline and use it at troll speed only and keep using the Lowrance, with much smaller and hydrodynamic shaped transducer as the high speed sounder. Nothing wrong with the lowrance bottom read, just its fish showing detail is very poor compared to the furunos (IMO)

[ozynorts]

This worries me a little. The 1kw transducer for the Furuno 588 is a huge brick of a thing and will maybe throw some serious spray. Have already decided, subject to sea trails, to raise it above planning waterline and use it at troll speed only and keep using the Lowrance, with much smaller and hydrodynamic shaped transducer as the high speed sounder. Nothing wrong with the lowrance bottom read, just its fish showing detail is very poor compared to the furunos (IMO)

Or you could get a spray deflector for it. I had spray issues with my transducer and the deflector fixed it.
I got one of these but not sure if it would be big enough for that transducer. The good thing about this one was I could use the same holes as my transducer for mounting.
https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?item=32389&search123=transducer+spray+gua&intAbsolutePage=1
There is one like this that is bigger but may require more holes to be drilled....
http://www.chsmith.com.au/Products/Bell-Marine-Transducer-Covers.html

[scottar]

Well unless you always go out with 4 other blokes and 200kg of ice, then come home with another 200kg of fish :) .
Cheers

Even then it would be decisively average for that size rig.............I get better from the E-Tec now. It's got to be units back to front or a set up issue surely.

[gofishin]

Yeah Scotty, i should have said 400kg + 400kg probably hey :).

I am sure it is units wrong way round. I couldn't see how it could possibly be 1.3L/km on that size boat with that donk... the 4.2's have better economy than the 3.3's too.

I am still getting over Kev's (kc's) bad figures and I have the same donk (as he had) on a similar size glass boat, albeit with a shallower 20 deg deadrise, but being glass would be a lot easier to push even with the same deadrise.

Worst I have ever got from an overnight 1770 trip with 3 or 4 blokes and plenty of ice/gear/weight and shitty conditions at least one day was 0.97km/L, and that was the only time I have ever gone under unity. These overnighters would be up to around 250-270k's on the Yam Trip Log, and 140-150nm on the GPS Trip Log (which obviously includes drifts).

I guess we will find out soon enough how much Kev's boat had to do with the bad figures.
Cheers

[kc]

I have over 200 hours of numbers on my boat and have become convinced that the actual boat itself is part of the problem. They flex. It makes for a great but inefficent ride. The big Tupperware boats are never going to be as clear and slick through the water as a glass boat, but it is a trade off I am happy to cop, if I can get the numbers I am hoping the big Gen 2 will give me. All about the extra torque and lift of the RX 4 prop. This would appear to be the first of these unusual and fairly rare big buggers in the world, ever fitted with this engine so it is a "suck it and see" situation. I was not at all unhappy with the big Yammy as a motor. Nothing wrong with it. Just the slow steady growl of a 4 stroke trying to push a square peg into a round hole. I expect the 2 stroke bark of the etec to just crack straight through the softness of the hull. In any case, I will know on Tuesday. It is the biggest spend on a boat I have every had, made so in large part because I had to buy the missus a new car as part of the softening up process =). If this doesn't work, nothing will and I will just get used to big fuel bills and less range than I expect.

[ryangler]

with only 4 cables Is the steering electric? how does it work with Auto Pilot systems? probably easier I presume with no hydraulic lines ;D

[scottar]

with only 4 cables Is the steering electric? how does it work with Auto Pilot systems? probably easier I presume with no hydraulic lines ;D

It's my understanding that the steering is a power assisted hydraulic system. The hoses from the original helm will be in the rigging tube somewhere as well. There is some consideration needs to be given to hydraulic pressure as too higher pressure can apparently damage the system - there are limiting valves available to use with systems that generate too much pressure. An autopilot fits just as it would on any "conventional" system by teeing into the lines. The tricky part may be finding a linkage to hook a rudder reference unit to if the particular pilot requires it. Thankfully the manufacturers are finally seeming to be able to get pilots without a feedback to steer properly - something that was a challenge for a long time.

[ryangler]

So similar to the verado system except the power assist pump is under the cowling

[scottar]

Pretty much.

[kc]

Control binicle in. Really compact with nice solid feel to it. Stainless mounted. Not much more going on now of any interest till the reconfigured dash and electronics go in Monday. Sea trials set for Tuesday.

[Nick H]

Km/litre or Litres / km Nick ?

Last trip was 80 miles (land miles) 129 litres on the gauges, So not quite the figures I quoted. This includes engine running while checking drift etc. 4 blokes on board and we had it pinned on the way home. So basically 1 Liter/ Km. There definitely isn't 200Kg of fish coming home!!!

[Nick H]

I have the same transducer and after the first water test I had a spay deflector welded on. Sounds at full speed and no problem with water getting near the air intakes now.

[scottar]

Last trip was 80 miles (land miles) 129 litres on the gauges, So not quite the figures I quoted. This includes engine running while checking drift etc. 4 blokes on board and we had it pinned on the way home. So basically 1 Liter/ Km. There definitely isn't 200Kg of fish coming home!!!

That's a lot closer to the money Nick you should be able better it a bit by playing with your set up would have thought unless you are running heavy.

[kc]

Nice the hear Nick. I will see how sea trails go with the transducer before I commit to lifting it above planning line and just using it as a troll speed transducer. Spray deflector is clearly an option as well. Will see. I love the GPS backtracking/ spot marking facility on the Lowrance in any case so would in all likelihood prefer it at speed to the Furuno as a high speed sounder. Will just have to see. Note your numbers with a fairly heavy load on an 80 mile run at near enough 1 litre per kilometre. I will try to convert my thinking to these measurements as talking litres and miles is confusing. With 2 years of consistent numbers, and lots of trail and changes I am at 1.45 litres per kilometre with the 250 yammy. Lets just see what the etec manages.

[kc]

Bit more. Electronics in. Icon gauges, Furuno 588 as principle sounder and A series raymarine GPS as back up GPS are flat mounted. Lowrance Elite 7 stays bracket mounted above dash as principle GPS and backup sounder. New fuel lines also being run just to be on safe side. Replacing one of 2 battery bank as one was a bit soft and will use new battery as start battery and current battery 2 as house battery.

[kc]

Fired up. Software updated and engine management systems installed. Sea Trials after lunch tomorrow.

[kc]

Underwhelming first sea trial. Contrary to my understanding the dealer fitted an 18 inch 3 blade Rebel prop. Would have made a good milk frother but hopelessly spinning the wheels on big bertha so no point even trying to do any real numbers. An RX 4 18, as requested, is arriving tomorrow for round 2 trials. That said, even with dreadful prop slip I still got 48ks at 50 litres per hour, a 20 litre per hour better burn than the yammy. Still hoping for about 40 litres at 48 KPH. Didn't try WOT. No point.

[kc]

Looks great but on expert advice this has been mounted a full inch higher than you would normally swing a motor and as such the Rebel was grabbing air and just thrashing around and not biting into hard water. Not sure why dealer supplied contrary to advice but I know propping is part of the dark arts and will see what the RX 4 does tomorrow.

[scottar]

Sounds like once you sort out the prop you are on a winner.

[kc]

Hoping so but disappointed with yesterdays performance and know it was incorrectly propped so withholding judgement. This has been a big spend and I really want a big improvement, not just in terms of fuel burn but I want the boat to be much "crisper" and throttle responsive than it was with the 4 stroke. I will just wait and see what the day brings.

[Chimo]

Good luck with it.

The G2 has to be crisper.......
The blade has to bite better question is will it operate in surface piercing mode or will you need to drop the motor a tad?

Cheers
Chimo

[kc]

You got it Chimo. We will be dropping the motor a "tad" next Monday. Sea trial with the RX 4 today was a massive improvement over the rebel 3 blade but still some obvious cavitation. We ended up doing all numbers with the motor 100% trimmed down so all the numbers are with full hull drag effect. Any attempt to trim the motor resulted in loss of traction before the nose started to lift and as such the numbers are REALY encouraging. This was/is about cruising speed running and range for me. My hope is around 40 lph at 48 kph, anything better than that would be gold. Even on todays numbers I am a 125 litre fuel save on my average reef trip.

Numbers today, with a bit of prop slip and 100% down trim are 4250 RPM and fuel burn of 45 lph at 49/50kph. Also very noticeable was the planning at much lower speed and absolute lack of the need for the trim tabs. Yesterday with the rebel 3 blade I was at 4800 RPM with 58 lph and 48 kph but was really spinning the wheels so not a fair set of numbers.

I think next sea trail will nail it.

[Chimo]

KC

That's good to hear and a GREAT START..

With all the fuel saved you should be able to take the next step and hang a second G@ 300HP and up the pitch at least 2" on each and really save some fuel / money at maybe 1000 to 1500 less revs each motor!

You might need to lift the motors back up to where they are now with the extra weight tho.

Cheeers
Chimo

[kc]

Yah, good on ya =)

[Chimo]

PS Forgot to add that with all these fuel savings it should be easy to convince the other half, who has her new Audi anyway!

[Lovey80]

Well done KC it looks like you are on a winner. If I was a religious man I'd pray for you that the G2 is a hell of a lot better than the G1. By all reports so far it looks the case. Keen to hear your updates gonig forward.

[kc]

Yep. Fingers crossed. 5 year warrantee in any case and my last G 1 was a ripper of a motor, made better IMO because I never ran it hard and always used premium fuel. Mates who I know who had Etec dramas were always looking for cheapest fuel and running motors in the high 4's/ low 5's. And Chimo I ended up getting away with a Mazda CX 5...bonus! She was talked out of the Audi by our mechanic (only cost me a slab)

[Chimo]

KC

Glad to hear that the rumor was wrong! Have a mate down here who's wife's Audi has spent 14 weeks at the dealers so far with only 30 k on the clock. He's not happy!!

When is the next trial?

[gofishin]

I can see you are thinking of how good a couple G2's would be on the SF Chimo :)

Very promising results today Kev, that's a big fuel saving too, and still more to come by the sounds of it once you sort the motor height out.
Cheers
Brendon

[ryangler]

Very promising results, can I ask what the motor set you back Ive loosely be told $113 per hp or $34k.... doesn't sound so bad when you say $113 per hp ;)

[Chimo]

True Brendon

But two 200HP slightly exceeds the max allowed. A couple of G2 115 HPs would peak my interest or HO G2s even more so if they ever happen.
My 20" Rakers might even go straight on but you would have to give the RX 4s a run to be sure,

Cheers
Chimo

[kc]

Motor was $33 fully fitted, add the $27 traded up for the wife's car, plus the traded up Min kotta and new sounder and I'm north of $65. I did get $12 for the yammy so eases the pain a little.. I did actually look at 2 150's but transom is not capable of taking twin motors. Going for a fish "as is Friday" and back to the dealer when the new min kotta gets here (Monday or Tuesday) and then will drop the motor an inch or so.

[Ocean_Spirit]

Great results KC. The biggest surprise with the G2 is its fuel consumption - hard to believe at first. The 200HO on the SF Venom has over 200 hours on it fault free now. Starts first time. And gees they run hard and sound good.

[kc]

Yep. Fuel consumption is looking the goods and was a major driver for the upgrade. Yammy was just using too much, and not so much a $$ issue but it was killing me with lack of range. 400 litres under the floor and having to worry about how wide I could run on a day trip is just ridiculous. As stated, not really a problem with the motor, more so too much boat for a 250 4 banger, no matter what breed. The Gen 2 etecs have gone to a whole new level and the results I got today are just a taste of what I will get when I am getting full traction. I am convinced I will get 50 k's at 40 lph, or maybe 42 lph and see how the speed/consumption curve works up from there. Don't mind burning more to get an extra 8 to 10 k's. Makes a big fishing time difference running 150 k's out if I get 10 k's an hour extra. Regardless of where this beds down I am looking at a minimum $150 and perhaps $200 a day, times as many as 50 days a year fuel savings....gotta be happy with that. At that rate I will be able to buy the wife a new car every 3 years, or not!

[myusernam]

just remember there's XD100 to buy...

[kc]

Yep. 5 hours run time will burn 1.5 litres. About $25 of XD 100 to save at least $150 in fuel. I can live with that. will burn 1/3 litre of oil per hour at 4200 RPM.

[gofishin]

I guess the 6m $ question is how good will the figures get once the G2 setup is all tweaked, and the donk run-in, and will it get you an extra ‘50+HP worth of more speed’ over and above your original WOT 42kn when you initially got the boat Kev?

Even if the 42kn you originally posted about was 42mph (possible, given you could only get 37mph recently??), it means you should get at least 46mph at WOT with the G2 (assuming the 42 was average GPS speed), so your hopeful high cruise speed should be easily achievable based on that. Will all come down to what juice she sucks at that high speed. I guess we'll all have to wait for some stats once she's run in and the high-oil dosing period drops.
Cheers
Brendon

[Chimo]

Interesting comparison. Good to see that no boats were drowned this time!
https://www.tradeboats.com.au/tradeaboat-reviews/engines/1605/video-evinrude-e-tec-200-g1-vs-g2

[gofishin]

Interesting comparison. Good to see that no boats were drowned this time!Question is Pete, are they saying the G2's are really that good.... or are they saying the G1's are really that bad...? [emoji1]

Taking the economy numbers on face value there seem's to be a huge difference, nearly 100% improvement at both revs... but... when you really look at the numbers their math seems out! Well, a bit out for the 2nd set of G1 figures when you check!!

Economy figures should be 1.2, 2.0, 1.4, 2.1 as you go down the table, correct to 1.d.p. Still, a vast improvement, but you would think they would get their calcs right!

What would have really been nice would be to see the comparison over the entire rev range, and, to see the torque curves they talk about!
Cheers

[myusernam]

i hope you're right. certainly the g1's particulary in the large hp were piggish with it.
The no servicing certainly hopes to pay for it also.
I have a v4 ficht and it likes the xd50, probably around 60:1but 50:1 under heavy load. I buy the oil in 20l drums, work out the $ per litre and add it on whenever i am sharing fuel.

[gofishin]

Yep. 5 hours run time will burn 1.5 litres. About $25 of XD 100 to save at least $150 in fuel. I can live with that. will burn 1/3 litre of oil per hour at 4200 RPM.More like 2.9L Kev.

From what I recall from THT posts from guys with G2 300's, they average around 70:1. Assuming you get your 40L/h @ 50k's, oil consumption for 5hrs will be 40/70 x 5 = 2.9L.

However if there are 4hrs of trolling in the 5, average will obviously be a higher ratio/less oil used.

Cheers

[myusernam]

Yeah so at $20 a litre (I think) for xd100 which is the most expensive oil not insignificant but offset by no expensive service every year. Best bet is to buy it as cheap as you can find it In advance so you don't end up getting raped

[kc]

Nice little first run today, made much better by 5 nice Spanish mackerel and a whopping big trout that grabbed a mack bait. Sloppy conditions and pushed the big tide both ways. Did 90 k's on 83 litres and re-topped oil to check and used 1 litre on the dot. Given I am in run in and oil usage is apparently higher for the first 50 hours or so I am ok. Motor is cavitating badly so expecting significant improvements when engine is lowered next week. Figured I saved about $85 in fuel, offset by $20 in oil. Fair swap =). Having another go tomorrow and conditions are supposed to be 10 knot variable.

[kc]

Have a combined 2 day trip log. Didn't reset before second day (whoops) but still interesting numbers so far. Yesterday was a bit better sea conditions but still 15 knots and far from calm. 173 ks total for the 2 days. A fair bit of that trolling 151 litres of fuel. 1.8 litres of oil. Boat is back in the shed now until motor is lowered on (hopefully) Tuesday. Min kotta to be fitted same day so this will add a bit of weight but not significant as all the batteries are already installed. Boat feels and rides great. Noticeably lower comfortable planning speed but the prop slip is very obvious. Shot of gauges was pushing into 2 knots of current.

[Chimo]

KC

Just wondering, thinking aloud, but with the water splashing up and flowing out high up on the motor (in the pic) might it be a plan to fit the new prop with the motor at its present height rather than dropping the motor perhaps for no benefit?
If the prop slip is reduced with the 4 blades and the grip is better perhaps a trial with the motor where it is might prove instructive... thoughts?

Chimo

[gofishin]

I'm not so sure Chimo. Although there is a lot of splashing going on, the AV plate seems to be well above the water - looking at it on the phone at least.

kc, can you trim the motor so the AV plate is parallel to the keel, then use a straight edge off the keel and measure up to the plate (and take a pic)? This will be a good 'guide' of where you are currently at.

Also, what shape is the very bottom of the boat/keel? A vee, or some sort of keel shape (from the rotomold) that provides extra protection to the hull? Pic of this from behind too would help too.
Cheers

PS. From what I recall of reading G2 300 threads over the last 6 months or so, they referred to 3 different prop types being used. RX4, REV 4, and a Bravo 'something' (can't recall if a 3 or 4 bld.

Can your mechanic get hold of a REV 4 17" or a 19 to try Kev? 19 maybe too big though I think. These work great at high mounting positions.

[kc]

2 day trail and this pic is with the RX 4 18. The 3 blade Rebel 18 was really unsuited, perhaps in part because of motor height but was slipping very badly. This shot and the 2 days with the RX 4 is still with significant prop slip and cav plate is a good inch and a half to 2 inches above water when running at 50 k's. I still have the Rebel here so can give it a go if need be with the motor set deeper but on advice the RX 4 is the right prop for this style of hull. Will be dropping engine 1 hole to start with and can always go down another if needed but I think 1 hole down will be "the business'". Current numbers are good but with full bite of the prop should be even better. I will get a few more pics as suggested of boat on trailer.. Some of the "splashing" is coming of the brick of a thing that is the 1kw Furuno transducer. I have a spray cover coming.

Kev

[kc]

Some pictures and Measurements. Cav plate is sitting 15 cm above bottom of hull in horizontal trim. Seems too high. a 4cm gap between top of prop and cav plate puts tip of prop 11 cm above hull.

[gofishin]

Some pictures and Measurements. Cav plate is sitting 15 cm above bottom of hull in horizontal trim. Seems too high. a 4cm gap between top of prop and cav plate puts tip of prop 11 cm above hull.Wholly sh!t, is that with the plate parallel to the hull keel, or trimmed in a little ? Bit hard to tell in pics.

But yes, too high regardless.

[kc]

Plate is at 90 degree to hull. From what I am able to read and what advice I can get online from the experts , because these are set back some 10 inches from the hull, almost like on a little "pod" they are supposed to be mounted higher, but IMO, just not THAT much higher. The shot of it running and all the white water/foam flying around under the cav plate says it for me. It is catching air, lots of air, and I am expecting significant improvement in performance when it is just grabbing water. I have posted the measurements and images on the etec owners Gen 2 page as well. A few of the guys there are really on the ball with these things and have given excellent advice and feedback so will see what they have to say.

kev

[kc]

Sorry. Didn't post this.

[Chimo]

Kev

Didn't realize the transducer splash impact ( cover plate should remove this confusion) but with the pics now shared it does appear the motor is a tad or maybe 2 tads too high. Easy to adjust up or down especially with the G2 rigging anyhoo.

Cheers
Chimo

[gofishin]

Plate is at 90 degree to hull...So you mean 90 deg (right angles) to the transom Kev, i.e. trimmed right in? If this is the case it will inflate the distance, probably why you got 150mm.

What I am looking for is the parallel distance, i.e. hull bottom (keel) horizontal (with a spirit level), and A/V plate also level, then straight edge to transom and measure up from keel.


... From what I am able to read and what advice I can get online from the experts , because these are set back some 10 inches from the hull, almost like on a little "pod" they are supposed to be mounted higher...Yes true. 'General' rule is 1" higher (than you would otherwise mount) for every foot you set back with a pod.
Cheers

[kc]

Yep, sorry, not 90 degrees. Image is taken with motor trimmed out so that cav plate is parallel to hull/planning surface. Trimmed right in the engine cav plate sits higher so I think the position is about right. Feedback seems to be drop 2 holes. Waiting for the main guy (Huey) on the etec owners site to have a look but seems to be about 2 holes to drop.

[gofishin]

Ok, wow, that is very high.

I don't know the mounting hole spacing on a G2, but two holes would only drop you ~38 - 42 mm if it is similar to other makes... and 110mm still seems way too high.

However never propped or played with the setup of a G1 let alone a G2, so maybe Ocean Spirit or Scottar will chime in with suggestions too.

[Ocean_Spirit]

Hi, just catching up on this one. What RPM did it pull at WOT with the RX4 and trimmed out? Keeping in mind it is an out of the box engine and will loosen up with hours. I don't think you are too far off height wise if you intend to run the RX4, but no harm in dropping a pin and seeing what it does. Every boat is different. But as a direct comparison to the old G1 on the Seafarer, we ended up 2 pins higher.

I did find the G2 threw a bit of extra water up at 3000-3500RPM when trimmed in with the 3-Blade Rebel/Viper. The gear case componentry is heavy duty to say the least over other production engines in the same HP category.

Stick with the RX4 if you can pull the RPM - it's an excellent prop. I found opening the VVT holes helped too. The G2's are a whole different animal to dial in.

[kc]

Thanks mate, getting 5500 with the current set up but if I try to really trim out the prop blows out and loses traction. I think the RX 4 will be the prop but I am sure I have to lower the engine a bit, that said everything I am being told by the experts if to run the motor high. Dealer is a good bloke and only 3 k's up the road so he seems happy to help me keep tinkering to get this right. Should done Tuesday and have another run Tuesday arvo.

Kev

[gofishin]

If the current problem can be solved by dropping just one hole kc I will be super impressed. Hell, even if it is solved by dropping two holes I will still be impressed!! [emoji1] . With the top of the prop currently 110mm above the keel, a 2 hole drop will reduce that to approx 70mm +/-. That is still a significant rise up from the keel.


... getting 5500 with the current set up ...Revs will drop as the slip will reduce a lot when you drop the donk, and the prop can get some bite. Can't recall if you posted the speed at WOT, but did you work out the slip kc?

Depending on how much the donk loosens up with hours, you may need to consider a size down in pitch, as I believe it is recommended to get 5800/5850 with your normal loaded trim - which for you will be pretty heavy kc for your big runs.
Cheers

[kc]

Thanks gofish. Top speed at WOT is 70k's with not much trim. Prop pitch is certainly on the radar when I drop the motor. Dealer is really happy to help me tinker with this so will see how sea trails go this arvo and maybe get an RX 4 16 up so a try.

Kev

[gofishin]

Just over 14%. That's better than I expected for a 'surface piercing mode' :) .

[kc]

Finally done. Big Min Kotta Ulterra went on this arvo, motor has been lowered, spray guard fitted for Furuno transducer. Fuel up, iced up, baited up and ready for first run to the reef at 4am. Played with the Ulterra in the shed. Now THAT is what I call a flash bit of anchoring gear. Should run about 250 k's tomorrow so can post some meaningful numbers with a full load of gear. I do have an RX 4 16" coming on an expectation that this prop will be a little to heavy to swing at 5500 RPM now that it is actually submerged.

[Chimo]

Good luck with it.

Not sure if you got the message or not but you have more or less answered it .

Cheers
Chimo

[kc]

Good reef run yesterday and just had a talk to my dealer. 253 k's yesterday on 235 litres. about 4 litres of oil. heavy load of gear (and fish coming back). Calm conditions for run out, sloppy 15 knot sea for trip home made for heavier running and fuel use. Still significant prop slip below 4000 RPM and WOT of 5300 with trim.

Plan. Getting an RX 4 16 up to trial and dropping the motor 1 more notch. Was only lowered 1 notch last week because the bottom bolt mounting position made it a difficult option to take any lower, but will take this option next.

All up very happy and still with, I think, some room for improvement. The big win is the fuel burn staying consistent with RPM well into the rev band and incremental speed increase.

These are heavy load number.

4350 RPM 46.5 lPH 48 kph Econ as per gauges 1.1
4700 RPM 55 lph 55 kph 1.0
4800 RPM 60 lph 60 kph 1.0
5050 RPM 65lph 64 kph 1.0

From here on fuel burn curve rapidly overtakes speed with 92 lph @ 72 kph down to .7 kpl on the economy gauge.

If my new standard is going to be 1 litre per kilometre then I have just upped my cruising speed from 30 MPH to 40 MPH and that is an outstanding result when I am running big miles.

As a side note. How f$#@$ (f$#@$) good are the Min Kotta Ulterras. A full day at the reef with "push button" anchoring.

[Oceanic Dave]

Good reef run yesterday and just had a talk to my dealer. 253 k's yesterday on 235 litres. about 4 litres of oil. heavy load of gear (and fish coming back). Calm conditions for run out, sloppy 15 knot sea for trip home made for heavier running and fuel use. Still significant prop slip below 4000 RPM and WOT of 5300 with trim.

Plan. Getting an RX 4 16 up to trial and dropping the motor 1 more notch. Was only lowered 1 notch last week because the bottom bolt mounting position made it a difficult option to take any lower, but will take this option next.

All up very happy and still with, I think, some room for improvement. The big win is the fuel burn staying consistent with RPM well into the rev band and incremental speed increase.

These are heavy load number.

4350 RPM 46.5 lPH 48 kph Econ as per gauges 1.1
4700 RPM 55 lph 55 kph 1.0
4800 RPM 60 lph 60 kph 1.0
5050 RPM 65lph 64 kph 1.0

From here on fuel burn curve rapidly overtakes speed with 92 lph @ 72 kph down to .7 kpl on the economy gauge.

If my new standard is going to be 1 litre per kilometre then I have just upped my cruising speed from 30 MPH to 40 MPH and that is an outstanding result when I am running big miles.

As a side note. How f$#@$ good are the Min Kotta Ulterras. A full day at the reef with "push button" anchoring.

Hi mate,

Congrats on the new setup! It looks like this is a regular trip you do?

So just to get an overall view. Can you just list how many litres you would of used in the old set up and how many you used in this trip to get an idea?

Are you happy enough to recommend the G2?

Thank you :)

[kc]

On yesterdays trip. A run to wide of Knuckle reef with a bit of running around I would have burnt 400 litres and maybe even had to throw a jerry can in as well. Estimate (based on at least 30 trips to the same area over 18 months with the 250 yammy) savings at about 170/180 litres, offset by about $70 worth of oil so about $150 better off for the run. Also being able to run a good 8 mph/12 kph faster gives me more fishing time when I run that far. Had I ran the yammy at 64 kph (pretty much WOT) I would have burnt about 450 litres.

Heading out tonight after work for a shot at some reds wide of Holbourne and a few macks on the way home at dawn and this will take the engine into close to 30 hour range so interesting to see if oil consumption starts to slow. At present oil burn seems to be about 50/1 and it should ease back to near 100/1 after the break in period.

[kc]

Sorry, second part of the question. Would I recommend the etec gen 2. First off what I wouldn't do is bag the yammy. I was a lovely motor and just not suited to the boat. I have a yammy 60 on my creek boat and it runs on just about thin air. As to recommending the etec. I owned and had a perfect run from a Gen 1, and we all know how they ended...the new version of the black anchor. My experience so far with the Gen 2 is that it will be as good as I expected, but it is not there yet, which I think is a case of combined engine height and prop selection. It is not as good at cruise speed as I had hoped, and it is far better in the mid to high rev range than I had expected. The big surprise is what I seem to be achieving as my new "cruise speed". Ask me in 100 hours. So far, if nothing else was changed, this has been a great upgrade, but I do expect it to be even better. the prop slip at lower speed is still very significant.

[scottar]

the prop slip at lower speed is still very significant.

Be interesting to see how you get on. When I initially started trialing props with my rig I had abysmal fuel use at low revs - just coming onto the plane and low speed planing. Ultimately the fix was a multitude of things in combination - a better prop (Rebel in my case) and addition of planing aids (trim tabs and a foil) to simply get the hull to work better at the boat speed that the revs corresponded with. Doing these things has seen economy at this rev range effectively double - not to mention the difference in ride. Have you tried the Rebel prop again with the engine lowered?

[Lovey80]

I'm interested to see and know more about the electric set up and how it goes. What's the battery life out on the water like? Do you covert 12v to 36v on board?

[kc]

Hi Lovey,

System is set with 3 deep cycle 100 Amp batteries in series so a fair bit of weight to carry. Ran pretty much non stop for 5 hours with no loss of power and when I threw it on charge back in the shed I was still showing 3/4 full batteries. On the down side I went out last night and the remote failed =(. Thought it may have been a dud battery and didn't have a spare on board. Had to actually use an anchor!! & I left the retrieval bouy at home. Replaced battery this morning, still not working so took back to dealer. There is no manual override, no remote means no electric motor.

[Lovey80]

Hi Lovey,

System is set with 3 deep cycle 100 Amp batteries in series so a fair bit of weight to carry. Ran pretty much non stop for 5 hours with no loss of power and when I threw it on charge back in the shed I was still showing 3/4 full batteries. On the down side I went out last night and the remote failed =(. Thought it may have been a dud battery and didn't have a spare on board. Had to actually use an anchor!! & I left the retrieval bouy at home. Replaced battery this morning, still not working so took back to dealer. There is no manual override, no remote means no electric motor.

thanks a lot mate. Just wondering, with the Auto deploy function, can you lower the unit right out in the horizontal position before rotating it down into the water? For your set up its not an issue but many have boats with a bow rail that would interfere with the auto deploy if the shaft is right up when you deploy it.

Doest that make sense?

[kc]

Having done some homework after getting home there is an auto stow override in the event the remote fails, but not an auto deploy. There does not appear to be the capacity to extend before tilting so anything needing to go "under bow rails" would not work. Had the hand remote replaced without hesitation this morning by dealer. Opened the box on a new unit and took out the remote rather than make we wait for a new one. Good service but a good customer/caring dealer issue rather than company policy by Min Kotta I would think. I have however, ordered a second unit. A $250 insurance policy to live in the glove box on the boat.

[Badone]

Interesting thread kc.... Now I must be living in the 60s... Can you explain does the Minn Kotta hold your position without the need to anchor? It must be connected to your gps or have a gyro or something. Sorry about the stupid question but I've never heard of such a cool bit of gear if I am reading it right.

[scottar]

Some of the higher spec electrics have a gps receiver and a heading sensor built in. They can hold you in position, steer you in a direction, steer you on a heading allowing for set and drift and even record a track and follow it backwards and forwards. They can also be hooked up to your on board gps to go to waypoints etc.

[kc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5ejwRj9t1Q

Badone. A picture (or this case video) is worth a thousand words. The best bit of deep water fishing kit since the invention of the sounder.

[Badone]

Thanks kc and Scottar.... Jaw dropping! As the dude says..." I need to get one of those"

[kc]

The older I-pilot units tend to wander about a bit on "spot lock" but new units are promoted as holding within 1 foot . Big call and too soon for me to tell. Mind you 10 foot of wander when you are fishing in 200 foot of water is not noticeable. I have only had 1 day out with mine, fishing in steady current and breeze and it is the bomb! I also fished a fair bit up in the shallows on the reef edge and it did seem pretty stable. I had an 80 I-pilot on my boat which was a little short on "grunt" as well as having a 60 inch shaft which was just a bit short and prop would cavitate as the bow pitched into oncoming waves and was always fighting for traction in anything but calm sea conditions. The 72 inch leg is prefect in this regard.

[Fed]

The interesting question is the time interval, seconds, minutes, hours or days?
Here's a picture from a stationary boat on dry ground transmitted to marinetraffic.com, wouldn't you spew if your spot lock drove your boat into the shore because the GPS system decided to tell it was in the wrong location.
Looking at the scale I not sure I'd trust it close to obstacles, if my take on how it works is right it could move by itself up to ~25M.
Love the idea of push button anchoring though.

[scottar]

Not "could" Fed - will. Unless you are running a differential correction system, all gps units wander to some extent. Atmospherics play a part in this. That said, the spot lock is probably just as "accurate" when holding a boat in position as an anchor with any length of rode and is a damn sight quicker and easier to sort out if things do go a bit awry.

[kc]

I still chalk up my only serious boating accident to GPS error and here is a shot of my cruiser, apparently sitting in the middle of the runway at Hamilton Island airport, when here was me thinking I was safe and sound in the marina.

[Nick H]

Hi KC, how many knots of current is it good for. ( you may have already said but i can't see it there)
Cheers

[kc]

Hi Nick,

I am still in "test phase" with the new Minn Kotta but so far fantastic and the push button deploy and stow feature....Wow!!. I had an 80 lb with 60 inch shaft on previously and this was both a bit short of grunt and the shaft length on the unit was a bit too short for the bow height of my boat as that when it pitched, bow on, into any waves and the bow lifted, the props came clear of the water and cavitated badly cause the boat to lose traction and then the motor had to work even harder to hold position. Yesterday was a sloppy northery and big tides and I fished almost 100 miles out. Motor worked non stop for about 8 hours with no drop in power. At times current was too strong to fish in yet motor seemed to have no problem holding position into both wind and tide. I would have guessed the tide at a good 2 knots but in 25 meters of water I was flat out getting to the bottom with very big sinkers and motor did it easy with no cavitation thanks to the 72 inch shaft. Should be heading out for an overnighter next weekend. Will mean 2 full days of fishing time on the electric so this will be a real test of battery life. So far a very big thumbs up for a 7 meter vessel with a lot of windage the 112 does it easy.

[Lovey80]

Great report mate.

im interested in what options there are for on-board charging the 36v bank via a VSR from the 12v engine alternator? Some of the electro geeks may be able to chime in. Is it possible to do? If so can you have it so a dual engine set up had both engines contributing to the recharge? Is it possible to wire up the bank so that the 36v bank runs the electric then the rest of the boat electrics are run off one of the single batteries for 12v or would there be a short?

big weekend and my brain is moving far to slowly to think it through lol.

[kc]

Be interested to see what feedback this question gets Lovey. I did ask the question of my dealer who thought it might all be a bit too hard. My Minn Kota work off a stand alone 3 bank battery feed and need to be recharged via a 39 volt charger, which, in itself, was a challenge to find. Next weekend will give me an indication of battery life and I guess if I was doing a few days out I would take the charger and a little Honda 2 KVA inverter and run the batteries up at night when on (real) anchor. That said, If I am thinking more than 1 night I would be taking the cruiser in any case and towing the fishing boat behind.

[scottar]

Great report mate.

im interested in what options there are for on-board charging the 36v bank via a VSR from the 12v engine alternator? Some of the electro geeks may be able to chime in. Is it possible to do? If so can you have it so a dual engine set up had both engines contributing to the recharge? Is it possible to wire up the bank so that the 36v bank runs the electric then the rest of the boat electrics are run off one of the single batteries for 12v or would there be a short?

big weekend and my brain is moving far to slowly to think it through lol.

It will be possible - just a case of how much you want to spend. I wouldn't take power from one battery within the bank to power the rest of the boat though. While it would "work", a better way to do it if you really wanted to use the electric batteries as a house bank, would be through a voltage converter so that all the batteries were being drawn off equally. Ultimately though it would not be as efficient as simply having a 12 volt house battery as there will be losses incurred in both the charging and then the conversion process

[scottar]

Be interested to see what feedback this question gets Lovey. I did ask the question of my dealer who thought it might all be a bit too hard. My Minn Kota work off a stand alone 3 bank battery feed and need to be recharged via a 39 volt charger, which, in itself, was a challenge to find. Next weekend will give me an indication of battery life and I guess if I was doing a few days out I would take the charger and a little Honda 2 KVA inverter and run the batteries up at night when on (real) anchor. That said, If I am thinking more than 1 night I would be taking the cruiser in any case and towing the fishing boat behind.

The Honda is probably the safest way to do it kc given the way Evinrude provide their battery charging (not 100% sure with the G2 but the G1 is electronically via the EMM), If you were to set up charging for the electric bank, I would suggest making sure it is current limited so that the EMM is not trying to charge potentially 4 drained batteries continuously. What amp output is your charger ?

[kc]

Puts out max 20 amp at 36 volt and little Honda seems to do it easy but never had to charge batteries from low. Just gave it a try out with almost full batteries. It is a fair lump of a charger and was hard to find.

[Triple]

Can this do what you want?
https://www.############.com.au/Sterling-Pro-Charge-12-Volt-to-36-Volt-On-Board-Waterproof-Battery-Charger-Charge-your-36-Volt-Minn-Kota-Batteries-While-the-Boat-Engine-is-Running-on-Runs-Between-Fishing-Spots-BBW1236

Or
http://www.yandina.com/troll36info.htm

[scottar]

Both of those would work Triple. The Sterling Power Procharge BBW1236 will also limit the input current to 25 amps. Also did a bit more research on the G2 - they have removed the charging gear out of the EMM (a good thing) and maximum output is 50 amps. Still means it will take a long time to charge up if you are charging a flat electric bank along with a depleted house bank and supplying running current for onboard gear.

[Lovey80]

Did some searches last night. Minn Kota make an onboard charger that can top your start battery from the engine up at 12v then when it reaches 13.6v flick over and charge your 36v bank.

these guys sell a similar product and apparently buying two of them you can double up in the charge from dual engines if you have them.

https://www.############.com.au/Sterling-Pro-Charge-12-Volt-to-36-Volt-On-Board-Waterproof-Battery-Charger-Charge-your-36-Volt-Minn-Kota-Batteries-While-the-Boat-Engine-is-Running-on-Runs-Between-Fishing-Spots-BBW1236

i think though that for KC's application, if he is going out with full house banks and using this product (or the MinnKota one) if he's currently spot locking for 5 hours and only losing 25% charge then the top ups it would get in between spots would provide a very long life out of the batteries. I think you'd either have to be doing a hell of a lot off fishing out of the one spot or very little running during the day for the bank to complete discharge.

[kc]

Going back to the origin of this rather lengthy thread I had another visit to the boat doctor and more sea trails this afternoon and think the setup is now right. I already have 41.5 hours up withthe “old” setup (mark 2) and it was apparent, particularly with heavy load or unsettled sea conditions, I was still having trouble getting traction and did a big reef runin sloppy seas Sunday and did 257 k’s on 272 litres.
Today dropped the motor another 2 notches and sea trialled another prop. Ended with the sort ofnumbers I had been hoping for and with the RX 18. RX 16 was not enough prop and produced much worse numbers. Only worry is that the RX 18 is not getting theWOT revs but I virtually never travel anywhere near WOT and while I know not getting full revs means I may be loading the engine, the performance and numbers speak for themselves.
Nice easy plane at 3950rpm. 38 lph 45kph econ gauges bouncing between 1.1 and 1.2
Best numbers cruise speed
4250 rpm 41 lph 49kph econ on gauges 1.3
Accelerated well
4400 rpm 43 lph 51 kph econ 1.2
4600 rpm 47 lph 53kph econ 1.1
4800 rpm 54 lph 56kph econ 1.0
5000 rpm 62 lph 64 kph econ 1.0
5200 rpm 67 lph 66kph econ 1.0
WOT only gets to 5350 92 lph 72 kph econ .8

These are the RX 18 numbers. RX 16, while getting to 5850rpm WOT was very inferior across the rev band and achieved 69 kph WOT.

I'm now done "trialling" and will take what I have got. My original Yammy set up was burning 370 litres to do my 'Sunday Run". This was back to 272 litres used last Sunday in hard running conditions. Based on todays numbers, also in fairly sloppy conditions, I will get this down to about 220 litres. As to oil burn I have used 17 litres for 41.5 hours, most of which has been running hours, only about 8 trolling and most of these hours have been running at around 4800 rpm. Until today this was the best return at 1/1 litres to kilometers in heavy sea and with full load due to a lot of slippage in the lower rev bands.

This thread may carry on for a bit now about the Minn Kota Ulterra but as far as my project to upgrade my reef boat from a 250 4 stroke Yammy to a 300 Gen 2 Etec it is now done. As at today, on my average reef trip I will run faster and save in the order of $210 in fuel per trip, offset by $60 in oil. $150 better off for around 50/70 days a year and no need to get the motor serviced, virtually every month with the hours I do. A lot of local commercial operators are watching over my shoulder who are all running big, and often multi, Yammy rigs. I think Etec are about to take the Whitsundays by storm. Nobody in business can afford to ignore the numbers when they are running outboards for 1500/2000 hours a year. If you took my numbers, times 2 big yammy's it would be, potentially, in the order of $168,000 a year in fuel saving. (2 motors. 30 LPH/engine, $1.40/l, 2000 hrs/annum), offset by $60,000 in oil but without even going to service costs.

Great project. Thanks for the amazing interest and input and maybe see you on the water one day.

kc

[scottar]

Good report kc and assuming good reliability a great outcome. Did you by chance throw the Rebel back on for a quick run after the engine height was sorted?

[tenzing]

Hey KC
Great report
as for the prop, I have been doing the same with my new suzi 200.
20" is to short and hits rev limiter, but a week on the reef with a 22" shows it is too long ( 5700 rpm tops)
Talked to Yan at aust prop repairs yesterday and the 22" will be going down today for a 1 inch depitch to 21"
Just a thought.

Cheers
Brendan

[StevenM]

From an engine manufacturers perspective you are overloading by not achieving WOT. You may have to do some prop work on your current.

[PROS]

Hi KC,

Glad to hear all worked out and boat is performing well.

With all these offshore trips you are doing, haven't you caught any fish?
If yes, how come there is no fishing reports from you?
Would love to see the catch as well

Regards

Max

[kc]

Visit www.baittoplate.com.au (http://www.baittoplate.com.au) for reports, tips and foody stuff.

[samsy]

well done. it has been a interesting read and i enjoyed reading your comments through the transition. A few bottle necks along the way but your enthusiasm for the g2 pushed you through these barriers.

On a personal note i experienced the same prop traps when we fitted the g2 one year ago. we trialled 7 props in total. i have a 250hp, 15 inch rebel (the rx4 props we trialled were shocking, especially the 16 inch) and average 1klm/litre and 50:1 oil burn. The numbers improve by about 20% when no trolling is involved.

Check out the facebok page i created to help people like yourself with sharing info - "Etec G2 Australia"

https://www.facebook.com/groups/135006676854112/

Thanks again for the detailed info. You have gone to a lot of effort to share your knowledge and experience.

[Force3]

Hi KC. This thread was one of the most interesting I have followed for a long time.
Could you give us an update on how the boat is performing now, any issues etc. I'm sure there would be many people interested.
Cheers

[tenzing]

[emoji191]


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