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jclay1773
21-05-2016, 07:41 PM
Hi all, broke the bowsprit today while retrieving the anchor using the float method. The bolts sheared off. Lately I have noticed that they had some rust stains round them. So a few questions.

1. Do you leave the rope in the bowsprit when retrieving anchor?

2. Any tips on reattaching the bowsprit. The original bolts are still in the glass.

Boat is a 600F. Thanks for any help.

scottar
21-05-2016, 08:00 PM
Yes or you are likely to do damage elsewhere.

Are the bolts glassed in so you have no access to the heads ?

tenzing
21-05-2016, 11:05 PM
Are you referring to the bow roller? ( the stainless part)
Scottar , I never leave mine in there, I remember tearing thething and doing untold glass damage when attempting to unstick an anchor when I first got the boat.
I actually pefer to let the rope com across to the base of the well bolted bow rail, Its only a rather moderate shearing force so will withstand it very well.
Never had another issue. The leverage and torquing moment on the often very light gauge bow rollers can do significant damage.
Just my two bobs worth

scottar
21-05-2016, 11:52 PM
Personal choice I guess. There is usually a lot more glass around the bowsprit than the rail as well as timber reinforcement (Certainly that way in the Victory) . We never had an issue in the 5.9 we used to run doing it over the bowsprit though the roller but I guess it just depends how far down you push the handle and the quality of the bow roller fitted (and just how well you get the pick stuck). It certainly can do damage to the point of the bowsprit being snapped off if you push too hard - one manufacturer at least that I heard of puts a bit of extra glass in now and I'm sure they wouldn't be the only one to have had it happen.

Might need some pics jclay to clarify exactly what we are dealing with

jclay1773
22-05-2016, 02:19 PM
I run a reef pick so only motor away slowly to set it free. I had another look today and it's definitely rusty bolts that caused it. I can access them through the anchor well. Always good to look at things the day after a crappy trip!

scottar
22-05-2016, 04:06 PM
I removed, re sealed and added extra bolts with the bowsprit on my Victory - doubled the number of bolts and increased the bolt pattern footprint by 50% in area. I hope like hell it never has to come out again because the amount of sealant in there now will make it a nightmare. It has however made the thing a whole lot more solid than before. Prior to doing it you could see movement when the winch snugged the anchor home - now none at all. If the bolts did give due to rust/crevice corrosion they just were not sealed properly.

littlejim
22-05-2016, 06:16 PM
Never busted mine, but have cut a couple of anchor ropes off when retrieving pulled the bow under the water. Chain must have been wrapped around the rocks.

jclay1773
22-05-2016, 06:19 PM
Yep will be using plenty of sika. Was also thinking of running a plate of stainless on the inside so the bolts are pulling on a bigger surface area.

tenzing
22-05-2016, 06:22 PM
I removed, re sealed and added extra bolts with the bowsprit on my Victory - doubled the number of bolts and increased the bolt pattern footprint by 50% in area. I hope like hell it never has to come out again because the amount of sealant in there now will make it a nightmare. It has however made the thing a whole lot more solid than before. Prior to doing it you could see movement when the winch snugged the anchor home - now none at all. If the bolts did give due to rust/crevice corrosion they just were not sealed properly.

Yep Scottar
I have done the same and is glassed up very solidly underneath.
It used to display the same flex.Not now!

My orirginal damage story was a stuck danforth and much inexperience ( a dangerous combo offshore!)
I only use the bowrail method to lift a reef pick BTW.
Cheers

scottar
22-05-2016, 07:21 PM
Yep will be using plenty of sika. Was also thinking of running a plate of stainless on the inside so the bolts are pulling on a bigger surface area.

Take a look at the Fixtech sealant. Not quite as strong as Sika but doesn't yellow to the same extent, seems to be a lot less prone to shrinkage cracks and is a heap easier to work with. The stainless plate won't hurt but large heavy washers are probably enough

scottar
22-05-2016, 07:26 PM
My orirginal damage story was a stuck danforth and much inexperience ( a dangerous combo offshore!)
I only use the bowrail method to lift a reef pick BTW.
Cheers

We have all had similar inductions to offshore I suspect. Sometimes I look back and wonder why just how I managed to still be here. Dumb luck more so than good management I suspect. The trick is to learn from it I guess.

drpete
23-05-2016, 03:51 PM
I have plate ally so this may not be applicable to you but I run mine through a fairlead on the starboard side slightly off centre. It pulls close enough to dead straight when on anchor and makes it a lot easier to pull the pick with the motor. The ball is always on the driver side of the boat so it's easy to find especially at night.
I have a zip tie going through the tips of the fairlead so the rope can't bounce out in a big swell.
Just a thought.

fishtragic
24-05-2016, 04:54 PM
All good points above if that's the way you want to retrieve, but your not the first or last to rip off a bow roller or bowsprit. Personally I don't use the bow roller for my anchor line. The Vermont is not bow access friendly unless you want to take fishy clothes through the cabin to the bow hatch which when open is inviting water ingress if it's rough. I have a tag line attached in the anchor locker running through the roller and around the stbd side long enough to reach the cockpit but just short of reaching the prop (in case it's accidently dropped) on the end of this is one of those 'Y' shaped clips the anchor line can be attached to, also, this way I have the advantage of being able to shorten the tag line to bridle the vessel to move sideways to a degree if necessary Anchor line is kept in the cockpit and worked from there. I fish alone a lot so I like to set and retrieve the pick from there, attach the anchor line when in position, retrieval is a matter of driving ahead till you can reach the tag line and clip, keep idling ahead, if shallow I jiggle the pick out of the bricks, attach ball/retrieve device and then wrap on the stbd quarter bollard keep driving ahead and bob's your uncle. Each to their own but It's a fairly simple and trouble free way to operate once you get familiar with it and a far more secure anchor point if you need to put some pressure on the pick. Just make sure you have a good angle on the line when straightening the pick so you don't pull the stern under.

scottar
24-05-2016, 08:14 PM
It is pretty well documented that pulling an anchor from the stern is a process that has a high risk of ending in very wet tears should the anchor get stuck and the skipper continue to pour on the power to attempt to free it. Having gone through the process of an anchor not coming free (thankfully with it tied off to the bow) I can see how it occurs. The amount of elasticity in your typical silver rope anchor line is amazing. I had a 4.5m tinnie fitted with a 40hp, pretty much at full throttle trying to pull the pick free. This in itself wasn't the issue. It goes pear shaped as you power down and reach a point where the stored energy in the rope overpowers forward thrust. It spun us more or less on the spot quickly enough that I had insufficient time to react to prevent the anchor being cut off by the prop. Had we tied off by the stern, the combination of leverage trying to drive the bow into the air coupled with the elastic effect of the rope dragging the vessel backwards could pretty easily pull your stern down to the point of flooding.

Noelm
24-05-2016, 08:25 PM
Yep, never under any circumstances tie off to the stern, I have seen a boat sunk in quite calm conditions, it took a second to go down stern first....just a few metres away from me.

fishtragic
24-05-2016, 09:13 PM
Hence the reason for having plenty of warp. Calm down guys, I will never tell another person how to control their vessel, simply explaining how I do it with this particular one. It's all a matter of knowing how much throttle is required and how your own vessel reacts given sea conditions, swell, depth, etc.

jclay1773
25-05-2016, 08:28 PM
113233

113234

A few photos. Only issue was that I did not pay attention to the rust stains and therefore the bolts broke due to rust. New bolts and some sealant and all will be sweet.

littlejim
26-05-2016, 06:10 PM
Yep, never under any circumstances tie off to the stern, I have seen a boat sunk in quite calm conditions, it took a second to go down stern first....just a few metres away from me.
One of the magazine fishing gurus used to advocate the "stern" pull.
Obviously never had an anchor stick in the rocks.

shakey55
27-05-2016, 04:57 AM
All good points above if that's the way you want to retrieve, but your not the first or last to rip off a bow roller or bowsprit. Personally I don't use the bow roller for my anchor line. The Vermont is not bow access friendly unless you want to take fishy clothes through the cabin to the bow hatch which when open is inviting water ingress if it's rough. I have a tag line attached in the anchor locker running through the roller and around the stbd side long enough to reach the cockpit but just short of reaching the prop (in case it's accidently dropped) on the end of this is one of those 'Y' shaped clips the anchor line can be attached to, also, this way I have the advantage of being able to shorten the tag line to bridle the vessel to move sideways to a degree if necessary Anchor line is kept in the cockpit and worked from there. I fish alone a lot so I like to set and retrieve the pick from there, attach the anchor line when in position, retrieval is a matter of driving ahead till you can reach the tag line and clip, keep idling ahead, if shallow I jiggle the pick out of the bricks, attach ball/retrieve device and then wrap on the stbd quarter bollard keep driving ahead and bob's your uncle. Each to their own but It's a fairly simple and trouble free way to operate once you get familiar with it and a far more secure anchor point if you need to put some pressure on the pick. Just make sure you have a good angle on the line when straightening the pick so you don't pull the stern under.

FISHTRAGIC

I'm with you, have done the same in my V-Sea and being able to work the anchor line from cockpit makes it a whole lot easier in my opinion.

Midway along my tag line I have one of those large pipe 'O' rings which acts as a shockie

Been there for years and not deteriorated, but inspect regularly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fed
27-05-2016, 08:00 AM
Pulling from the stern is way too close to being anchored from the stern for me.

Standing at the helm with water lapping at your feet and seeing the top of your motors & transom 2-3 feet underwater is not a good look.

Noelm
27-05-2016, 11:30 AM
Yep, fully agree, while some people do it, and prefer that method, the fact remains, it is dangerous, and plenty of new boaters read these forums looking for advice, it only takes one stern tie off in the hands of a novice to come to grief.