Overweight Boats

[IcyDuck]

Over the weekend I mentioned to my wife that I wanted to look at getting a bigger boat. I got a most unusual response from her - "Just make sure that it is not overweight." This is unusual from her as the normal response is "As long as it has a toilet".

She had seen a story on ACA last week about an overweight boat. I give that show a wide berth as most stories on it I have seen are very light on facts. I therefore did a quick google search and found the story - link below.

http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/article/9082072/boat-bungle

As I suspected, it was pretty light on facts but did highlight how easily boats can be sold that are overweight. They had it on a weighbridge at 3.9t but there was no mention of whether or not it was full of fuel, water, eskies and other gear.

The rollers breaking down was interesting. I'm not aware if rollers are load rated but I suspect it may be that there is not enough of them or the trailer is not setup correctly.

I would have thought that the selling dealer would have some sort of responsibility to ensure that the boat is legally towable for the intended use when it left the yard. Again, not enough facts to be sure what really happened here.

Apparently the dealer and manufacturer have come to the party, after the story was aired, to help the owner buy a new "light weight" trailer. Would this alone make enough difference - 400kg?

Ultimately I know it is the purchaser's responsibility to ensure that the boat is towed legally. Has anyone demanded a weighbridge certificate when buying a new boat to confirm weight?

Cheers, Phil

[shaungonemad]

It must have been in heavy trailer if they can make it 400kg lighter. I would imagine that there are a lot of single axle unbraked trailers pushing the friendship.

[ozynorts]

I believe the dealer only has to ensure that the BMT is legal until it leaves their driveway.... After that it is the responsibility of the owner to ensure they comply with the regulations.

[Noelm]

Yes, up to a point that is correct, however it would be a pretty dodgy dealer that sold a package that was "just" legal as it left the shop.

[PB]

Cutting 400kg out of a trailer that weighs 690kg is going to be interesting, considering there alloy equivalent has a tare weight of 550kg

[Moonlighter]

It used to be a fairly common practice at boat shows for the "special deals" to, amongst other shortcuts, be on a trailer that barely covered the BMT weight as it left the dealer's yard. Add anchors, chain, fuel and all the other stuff that gets shoved in there, and you will easily end up well over the limit of the trailer and/or towing vehicle.

It is a case of "buyer beware" of these sorts of things, I always alert people I know who are buying new boats for the first time of this item, and suggest they get it run over a weighbridge if they have any doubts at all. But many people simply are not aware of this issue as they have no experience, or have no idea what a used BMT combo might actually weigh.

The last 2 boats I bought new came with decent trailers with some margin for gear etc, but I got them both down to the local weighbridge at the tip and weighed them straight after i got them set up with all my gear. They were OK but I uprated anyway to add a couple hundred KG extra to the ATM to give me what i felt was a more comfortable margin on the days when i have a couple of eskies full of ice and fish (wishful thinking!)

Every now and then, Transport runs a blitz on this issue of trailer complaince and we see them set up with their portable scales near boat ramp entrances and exits, pulling people over and weighing them, checking towball downweight is within limits of the car and towbar, checking couplings for compliance, checking tyres for compliance and checking ATM and GTM ratings and actual weights all are within limits as per the trailer compliance plate and the car's towing limits.

They catch lots of people out, even allowing a bit of leeway, which they usually do if the driver behaves sensibly towards them. Ignorance is no excuse,mas they say. I do see some rediculous sized boats at times behind vehciles that wouldnt come anywhere close to having the cabability to tow them. And i regularly see big boats on puny thin trailers that cant possibly be either safe or legal.

In the case being discussed, getting a 3.9t BMT down to 3.5t is going to be a decent "challenge".......

[mitc69]

that current affair was pointless... poor fellow could get 100% refund easy.. for started dealer lied about the weight which is required for registration any misleading info is a criminal offense lol, if the consumer failed to see 3.9T then later revisit the specs.. he always protected by consumer guarantees act shrine lawyer should of crewed them up easy lol no point gettin ligther weight trailer and no 2.4 beam would be legal, as a trailer takes it 2.5, if it was 2.5, trailer be 2.6 making ilegal already

[KEMEL K]

"Every now and then, Transport runs a blitz on this issue of trailer complaince and we see them set up with their portable scales near boat ramp entrances and exits, pulling people over and weighing them, checking towball downweight is within limits of the car and towbar, checking couplings for compliance, checking tyres for compliance and checking ATM and GTM ratings and actual weights all are within limits as per the trailer compliance plate and the car's towing limits"


EVERY NOW AND THEN BEING NOT VERY OFTEN. I PERSONALLY HAVE NEVER SEEN TRANSPORT WEIGHING BOATS. HOW OFTEN DOES THIS OCCUR FUTHER SOUTH IE. BRIS, SYDNEY ETC. I THINK GREY NOMADS ARE A FAR GREATER RISK THAN BOATIES, VIRTUALLY EVERY GREY NOMAD WITH TINNIE ON TOP OF THERE 4X4 IS OVERWEIGHT!!!!! BUT YES BOATIES NEED TO CHECK FOR THEMSELVES AT WEIGH BRIDGES, THE LOCAL TIP USUALLY WONT EVEN CHARGE YOU TO RUN YOUR RIG OVER QUICKLY.

[IcyDuck]

I'm sure there are plenty of new boats running around being towed illegally. I can understand how an older boat can gain weight over time as things get slowly added to it but there should be some responsibility on the part of the selling dealer to at least make the purchaser aware. When I bought my last new boat there was no such information forthcoming from the dealer. When I asked he went and looked at the compliance plate on the trailer and simply read that out to me.I'd already done that myself so could have saved him the time.

[Back In Black]

"Every now and then, Transport runs a blitz on this issue of trailer complaince and we see them set up with their portable scales near boat ramp entrances and exits, pulling people over and weighing them, checking towball downweight is within limits of the car and towbar, checking couplings for compliance, checking tyres for compliance and checking ATM and GTM ratings and actual weights all are within limits as per the trailer compliance plate and the car's towing limits"


EVERY NOW AND THEN BEING NOT VERY OFTEN. I PERSONALLY HAVE NEVER SEEN TRANSPORT WEIGHING BOATS. HOW OFTEN DOES THIS OCCUR FUTHER SOUTH IE. BRIS, SYDNEY ETC. I THINK GREY NOMADS ARE A FAR GREATER RISK THAN BOATIES, VIRTUALLY EVERY GREY NOMAD WITH TINNIE ON TOP OF THERE 4X4 IS OVERWEIGHT!!!!! BUT YES BOATIES NEED TO CHECK FOR THEMSELVES AT WEIGH BRIDGES, THE LOCAL TIP USUALLY WONT EVEN CHARGE YOU TO RUN YOUR RIG OVER QUICKLY.

They were in the boat ramp carpark at Noosaville about 6 months ago. We were out early returning 12 hours later so we missed them, but a few got pinged I hear.

[GBC]

I've seen them twice at the barge entry at inskip weighing everybody heading to the island.

[mitc69]

i've ran into them between townsville and cairns, they tend to do alot around 10pm and twice in gladstone region, and once at port of brisbane last yr, it more like how often you go out to get checked i guess.. i go out upto 3-5x a wk in the afternoon so im bound to run into them here n there

if u tow boat that look over weighted on hwy you'll have good chance gettin caught, it not hard to tell from the range... but everyone tow with a ute or ford/holden so it easy to dismiss

[TheRealAndy]

"Every now and then, Transport runs a blitz on this issue of trailer complaince and we see them set up with their portable scales near boat ramp entrances and exits, pulling people over and weighing them, checking towball downweight is within limits of the car and towbar, checking couplings for compliance, checking tyres for compliance and checking ATM and GTM ratings and actual weights all are within limits as per the trailer compliance plate and the car's towing limits"


EVERY NOW AND THEN BEING NOT VERY OFTEN. I PERSONALLY HAVE NEVER SEEN TRANSPORT WEIGHING BOATS. HOW OFTEN DOES THIS OCCUR FUTHER SOUTH IE. BRIS, SYDNEY ETC. I THINK GREY NOMADS ARE A FAR GREATER RISK THAN BOATIES, VIRTUALLY EVERY GREY NOMAD WITH TINNIE ON TOP OF THERE 4X4 IS OVERWEIGHT!!!!! BUT YES BOATIES NEED TO CHECK FOR THEMSELVES AT WEIGH BRIDGES, THE LOCAL TIP USUALLY WONT EVEN CHARGE YOU TO RUN YOUR RIG OVER QUICKLY.

It happens. Its usually a combined Qld Transport and Qld Police effort. We get told about them at the VMR committee meetings in case they need on water assistance, but we are also sworn to secrecy about dates and times on the odd occasions that they actually tell us when and where its happening. Often they say its coming, and let you know on the actually day.

[gofishin]

Given the particular size model of this particular brand… maybe it’s a new ballast system … 1/2 tonne of lead under the floor maybe …!!! :o Sorry, couldn’t resist. ;D

Boat can’t be new, as I believe they stopped making this model a few years ago. Trailer definitely looks like it has some age on it too. I suppose the owner could have only just found out, ‘some years’ after taking delivery. Some more details would be nice, like what was in it at the time of weighing, as that is an awfully heavy 6.5m GRP boat, even with the twins. However I guess this is not unusual from ACA or the likes.
Cheers

[chocolatemoose]

for staters.. australian tv is rubbish

and .. ACA is ... one of the worst :P lol

but yep i thought this might draw some comments this segment. of cause they skipped out most of the conversation they have with everybody.

from what ive been made aware of "not sure if there is truth in it. disclaimer there". the customer opted for extra glass. extra fuel capacity etc and was made aware the boat would be heavier.

anyway.. interesting little video.

[IcyDuck]

Yes, Moose, a lot of facts missing and highly edited as usual.

However, it does highlight the need to do your own research and checks even when buying a new boat. A lot of first time boaties would probably simply trust that it is all good when bought from a dealer. And not even think about what they added after it left the yard.

I had some reasonably major repairs done to a fibreglass boat I had many years ago. I knew beforehand that it was already pretty close to the limit of the trailer it was on. The repairs actually took it over that limit. It wasn't much but enough. Luckily all I had to do was replace the axle with a heavier duty one and get it re-rated. The springs, hubs etc. were already ok.

[KEMEL K]

Ok so you guys do see dept transport doing these checks, semi regularly. Like I said I've never seen it in 15 odd years of boating up this way. Only ever seen "scalies" just past northern most exit to marybrough weighing trucks. Then I don't travel south to Brisbane that often maybe 6/8 times a year at best. Anyways whole report a bit scetchy. Like someone stated 6.5 meter weighing 3.9t wat the hell was in that thing???

[Moonlighter]

Ok so you guys do see dept transport doing these checks, semi regularly. Like I said I've never seen it in 15 odd years of boating up this way. Only ever seen "scalies" just past northern most exit to marybrough weighing trucks. Then I don't travel south to Brisbane that often maybe 6/8 times a year at best. Anyways whole report a bit scetchy. Like someone stated 6.5 meter weighing 3.9t wat the hell was in that thing???

I saw them there last October on our way to 1770. They were weighing some grey nomads caravans and had another car with a boat on a trailer waiting its turn. Have frequently seen them there checking trucks.

The point is, its easy to go to the local tip and get your BMT weighed, on and off the towbar, usually if you dont want a official certificate, they dont even charge you a fee. I just wrote down the weights told them i just wanted to know my trailer was all legal. No dramas. Just try to pick a quieter time of the day when they are not so busy.

If buying a used boat it wouldnt be hard to arrange to do the same thing as part of the deal.

[Moejoes]

Scalies were at Spinaker Sound boat Ramp Bribie on Tuesday Australia Day long weekend.
A friend got pulled up by them. They said they weren't out to fine people that day but to weigh and educate trailer boaties of their weights.
They were apparently targeting boats that had a track record of being over weight.
So they are aware of manufacturers weights yet they allow them to still sell / register them on under rated trailers. Go figure :-/
He went over just a tad.

[Shark Poker]

I saw them there last October on our way to 1770. They were weighing some grey nomads caravans and had another car with a boat on a trailer waiting its turn. Have frequently seen them there checking trucks.

The point is, its easy to go to the local tip and get your BMT weighed, on and off the towbar, usually if you dont want a official certificate, they dont even charge you a fee. I just wrote down the weights told them i just wanted to know my trailer was all legal. No dramas. Just try to pick a quieter time of the day when they are not so busy.

If buying a used boat it wouldnt be hard to arrange to do the same thing as part of the deal.

Fully agreed! I have often wondered why some many boat owners have such a problem with going to a place that can weigh their rig properly for them.
I remember taking one boat to get weighed, hoping it would come under 750kg and not need brakes. It went 840kg, It was better to know this and buy a trailer with brakes than run a stupid hope and denial campaign.

On my next boat I just wanted to know it came under 2000kg, again for brake-on-the-trailer reasons. It went 1640kg. Cool!
And the fee was $2

[Feral]

Fully agreed! I have often wondered why some many boat owners have such a problem with going to a place that can weigh their rig properly for them.
I remember taking one boat to get weighed, hoping it would come under 750kg and not need brakes. It went 840kg, It was better to know this and buy a trailer with brakes than run a stupid hope and denial campaign.

On my next boat I just wanted to know it came under 2000kg, again for brake-on-the-trailer reasons. It went 1640kg. Cool!
And the fee was $2

Because being in denial causes less sweat than knowing!

[scottar]

Ok so you guys do see dept transport doing these checks, semi regularly. Like I said I've never seen it in 15 odd years of boating up this way. Only ever seen "scalies" just past northern most exit to marybrough weighing trucks. Then I don't travel south to Brisbane that often maybe 6/8 times a year at best. Anyways whole report a bit scetchy. Like someone stated 6.5 meter weighing 3.9t wat the hell was in that thing???

Bannana's sinkers ;D

[Moejoes]

Bannana's sinkers ;D

Maybe that 500kgs he is looking for ;)

[The Silver Unicorn]

Probably had bannanna standing in the boat, word on the street says hes blown up a bit lately


I joined "The Rebel Alliance"

[Back In Black]

Probably had bannanna standing in the boat, word on the street says hes blown up a bit lately


I joined "The Rebel Alliance"

Holy crap!!!!!

Hold on everyone:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o

[scottar]

Yup. Thum thurs fightin words.

[The Silver Unicorn]

He couldnt punch his way out of a wet paper bag!


I joined "The Rebel Alliance"

[scottar]

LOL. I'll let you tell him that.

[the gecko]

So if boat, motor and trailer combined exceed 750kg, am I supposed to have a braked trailer?
Or am I supposed to weigh the boat and motor somehow?

cheers
Andrew

[JulianDeMarchi]

So if boat, motor and trailer combined exceed 750kg, am I supposed to have a braked trailer?
Or am I supposed to weigh the boat and motor somehow?

cheers
Andrew

The below link will help you brush up on what should be common knowledge.

http://www.racq.com.au/cars-and-driving/driving/towing/trailer-and-tow-vehicle-specifications

[gofishin]

So if boat, motor and trailer combined exceed 750kg, am I supposed to have a braked trailer?
...
cheers
AndrewYep! If any trailer and its load exceed 750kg, that trailer needs breaks.

[mitc69]

anything over 5m roughly

[Fed]

The 750 does not include the weight on the towball so all up 850 with 100 of that on the ball is still legal.Handy if you're on the edge.
Weight on towball has to be factored into the carrying capacity of the vehicle so no fat passengers.

[aussiebasser]

Yes, if boat, motor and trailer combined weigh over 750kg it is your responsibility and obligation to have a braked trailer. My 435 Hornet had trailer problems after the first year. The springs sagged, so I took it back to Redco and told them their springs were crap. He told me straight up it was over weight. I took it to the weighbridge and sure enough it came in at about 900kg. He did me a good deal on changing over the axle, hubs and springs and upgrading it to a 1 tonne trailer. The boat, motor and trailer were under weight, but once I put in three batteries and electric motor, better seats, tackle, spare wheel and my lunch it added up substantially.

[Lovey80]

I'm not much for nanny state legislation but I what does a weigh bridge cost? Would it be too much trouble having to have a weigh bridge certificate that is less than 12 months old for BMT packages?

[Shawn 66]

I am going to ask a stupid question:dunce:.When weighing your BMT do you remove it from the tow vehicle ? (See Idid say it was stupid )
Shawn

[Fed]

Weigh it both ways Shawn then you can calculate the split up between the weight on the towball & the weight on the trailer wheels.

[brett62]

I'm not much for nanny state legislation but I what does a weigh bridge cost? Would it be too much trouble having to have a weigh bridge certificate that is less than 12 months old for BMT packages?

The cost is $25 to weigh the boat hooked up to vehicle and they also give you the weight with trailer un hitched. Best $25 you can spend to know what you have. No surprises after getting it done. Set it up as you are going fishing with all your fuel etc. Did my rig and came in at 4 ton without batteries and not full of fuel or water.

[IcyDuck]

I'm not much for nanny state legislation but I what does a weigh bridge cost? Would it be too much trouble having to have a weigh bridge certificate that is less than 12 months old for BMT packages?

I would like to see this happen. The cost of the weight bridge is not much but I could see dealers resisting bitterly having to do it. It would highlight the very tight weight allowances that I'm sure a lot of new boats leave the yard with.

[Lovey80]

I would like to see this happen. The cost of the weight bridge is not much but I could see dealers resisting bitterly having to do it. It would highlight the very tight weight allowances that I'm sure a lot of new boats leave the yard with.

At $25 that's a no brainier. Would be worth while with also the smaller boats that are nudging the 750kg limit also. Tow vehicle is one of the biggest concerns with buying a boat. Many people narrow down their searches for boats based on what they can tow.

[Shawn 66]

Weigh it both ways Shawn then you can calculate the split up between the weight on the towball & the weight on the trailer wheels.
That right there is the reason this forum is so informative.

Even if you ask a stupid question ( as I did ) , you are answered with a intelligent no crap answer.
Shawn

[Moonlighter]

That right there is the reason this forum is so informative.

Even if you ask a stupid question ( as I did ) , you are answered with a intelligent no crap answer.
Shawn

Shawn, its not a stupid question at all, it helps everyone to understand.

I will add to the answer - if you look at the vin plate on your trailer, chances are it will list several weights with abreviated names, and the two that are particularly relevant to this discussion are : ATM and GTM.

ATM (aggregate trailer mass) is the combined weight of the trailer and its load when it is NOT coupled to a tow vehicle.

GTM (gross trailer mass) is the weight of the trailer and its load when it IS coupled to the tow vehicle.

Therefore, the weight being carried on your towball = ATM - GTM.

In practice, GTM will always be less than ATM because some trailer weight will always be transferred to the tow vehicle when its connected. But I have seen trailers where the ATM and GTM stamped on the vin plate are the same.

You should know the weight on the towball because each tow vehicle will have a max towball weight it can carry specified in the owners manual. Some vehciles have a surprisingly low ball load. Adding complication to that is that the actual towbar fitted to a vehicle has to have its own max towing weight and ball load stated as well. It might be the same as the max in the owners manual, or not!

And by the way, as I mentioned earlier, many tips will not even charge you a fee if you tell them that you dont want a weighbridge certificate, you just want them to call out the weights to you so you can make a note.

When i weighed my boat, i positioned the car off the weighbridge just so that the jockey wheel would still be on it when i wound it down. So i just asked them for the weight, that gave me the GTM, then jumped out of the car and without undoing chains or electrical plugs, just put the trailer brakes on, wound the jockey down and undid the coupling. As soon as the trailer was off the towball, i jumped off the weighbridge and they called me the ATM weight. Quickly wound the jockey wheel down again, deactivated the trailer brakes, and reattached the coupling to car, done! Whole process took a couple of minutes, tops.

[stue2]

At $25 that's a no brainier. Would be worth while with also the smaller boats that are nudging the 750kg limit also. Tow vehicle is one of the biggest concerns with buying a boat. Many people narrow down their searches for boats based on what they can tow.
And then there are those that are desperate to avoid the 2t break away break limit and their boats are over weight on any fishing trip

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

[Back In Black]

He couldnt punch his way out of a wet paper bag!


I joined "The Rebel Alliance"

Now that just plain hurtful you little snot!!

[tjotter]

4.5m tinny here, BMT ATM 905Kg on weigh bridge,
so even when on towball still way over 750Kg,
13 yr old with 50hp 4/s & normal fuel/boating/fishing gear and travel cover, no eskies,
Original 13 yrs old trailer, rated to 1000Kg.

Trailer tare is 300Kg,
equivalent new model probably has a tare closer to 220kg.

[The Silver Unicorn]

Now that just plain hurtful you little snot!!

I was talking about bannanna!


I joined "The Rebel Alliance"

[Dignity]

When i weighed my boat, i positioned the car off the weighbridge just so that the jockey wheel would still be on it when i wound it down. So i just asked them for the weight, that gave me the GTM, then jumped out of the car and without undoing chains or electrical plugs, just put the trailer brakes on, wound the jockey down and undid the coupling. As soon as the trailer was off the towball, i jumped off the weighbridge and they called me the ATM weight. Quickly wound the jockey wheel down again, deactivated the trailer brakes, and reattached the coupling to car, done! Whole process took a couple of minutes, tops.
Another stupid question, wouldn't you want to weigh the vehicle with the trailer on it to get the GCM, gross combined weight as this affects how much you can then also put in the vehicle including big passengers etc. Or can this be calculated using this method. I tried to follow a couple of threads on this issue and thought I was getting close to understanding it but it does appear to be an absolute minefield.

[Back In Black]

I was talking about bannanna!


I joined "The Rebel Alliance"

I know;D;D;D;D;D;D;D;D;D

[Moonlighter]

Another stupid question, wouldn't you want to weigh the vehicle with the trailer on it to get the GCM, gross combined weight as this affects how much you can then also put in the vehicle including big passengers etc. Or can this be calculated using this method. I tried to follow a couple of threads on this issue and thought I was getting close to understanding it but it does appear to be an absolute minefield.

The car owners manual tells you the empty weight of the car. From there you can estimate the weight of people and gear, and add that to the ATM of the boat, plus the weight of any gear beyond the "normal" when you weighed it.

Im my case, i know that my BMT, with all normal gear on board plus full tanks, is at least 600kg less than the towing limit for my car and thus also, even with family and reasonable gear, I am comfortably within the GCM.

If you were towing a rig that is right up there at the towing limit for your vehicle, then it wouldnt be a bad idea to do a GCM check to give yourself a starting point when you are loaded up, eg when going on a trip.

[bugman]

Bit off topic but on the big alloy cat trailer something went terribly wrong transferring it from Qld to NSW 3 years ago. Only found out this year.
Went for the annual inspection at a new mechanic and he said "your tare and GTM aren't right"
Tare on the trailer is 720kg and the GTM 4499. That's what the documents say and that's what the plate says
RTA in NSW had somehow registered it as Tare - 1270kg, GTM 1490kg. (yes the 8.5m twin outboard cat could only weigh 220kg)
So for three years I had been technically towing my 4.5tonne cat around illegally.
3 weeks of bullshit from everyone and it was finally re-registered with correct details - I can't tell you the paperwork bullshit that took.
Brett

[Linedropper]

4.5m tinny here, BMT ATM 905Kg on weigh bridge,
so even when on towball still way over 750Kg,
13 yr old with 50hp 4/s & normal fuel/boating/fishing gear and travel cover, no eskies,
Original 13 yrs old trailer, rated to 1000Kg.

Trailer tare is 300Kg,
equivalent new model probably has a tare closer to 220kg.


Plate or pressed hull? Just trying to work mine out for same sized plate boat.

[Moonlighter]

Plate or pressed hull? Just trying to work mine out for same sized plate boat.

Just take it to the weighbridge and get it weighed. Otherwise its just a guess.

[tjotter]

4.5m is pressed, actually a 4.55m Runabout.
I will have a look for it's hull weight when new.

update: a Jeff Webster review gives it a Hull Weight of 360Kg

[stang69]

towing weights get tricky at the lower weights too. Some of the smaller cars only have a manufacturer's towing weight of 500kg unbraked. Plenty of little tinnies being towed at risk if they ever have an accident as the insurance companies will wipe their hands.

[Nick H]

I picked my tub up from a service and after reading this last week thought I should weigh the thing. 2340kg with approx 150 litres of fuel, anchor,rope and chain.trailer is rated to 3500kg, but won't be towing it with the misses prado anymore as only has a 2500kg towing capacity. It's 6.75 from swim platform to bowsprit. I would say majority of production hulls around this size, once loaded would be well over there trailer weight.

[Dignity]

Moonlighter, was going to go across the weighbridge shortly to check it all but have just found a new tow vehicle which I have to resolve tomorrow so will delay this process. If it proceeds then I will do it immediately but in my current vehicle whenever I give it a clean out I am sure that I remove 100 kg plus of things that I carry, so compliance plates are only indicative. I do know what my towball weight is, but still not sure how to incorporate that into the method you prescribe. I probably should sit down and really or it through, could have done it this morning but took the yak for a fish on Baroon Pocket Dam. Maybe tomorrow, oh wait, promised to take my brother flattie fishing all before I check on my new truck.

I obviously need to make time to do this properly (not being flippant but this is probably most people, different circumstances) so I will put a day aside and do it and trust me being retired that is sometimes hard to do.

[tjotter]

.... thought I was getting close to understanding it
but it does appear to be an absolute minefield.

Below is a link to part 1 of 2 articles about towing and tow vehicle capacities.
Heaps of great info that may make the minefield look bigger but helps with navigation.

If you have a query re a particular vehicle, you can submit a comment/question.
https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car-advice/why-a-3500kg-tow-rating-may-not-really-be-a-3500kg-tow-rating/