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View Full Version : Remember the V8 oveheating drama? You won't believe this!



ThePinkPanther
29-10-2015, 12:24 PM
Hi Followers :bigcry:

I've been absent from this site and my associated post for quite a few weeks whilst holidaying in Canada!

And no, I never resolved the issue with the newly rebuilt OMC Cobra V8 (Ford Windsor 351) insofar as its unlocatable overheating issue when at 3,000 RPM it ran at 65-70C and at 3,300 RPM it hit 100C in an instant!

But I'm going to jump far ahead because a wrist slashing problem has now arisen as in a motor full of salt water!

Of course we all known that's not possible but I assure you it is! Good quality, fresh salt water from Moreton Bay!

How did I know? Well firstly, the motor was becoming very difficult to start and when it did fire up, it was far from happy! Misfiring, backfiring and all sorts of horrible noises!

So, whilst I was messing about with the starter motor, I noticed a couple of drips of water on the back of my hand and a closer look indicated a slow leak immediately below the rear No 4 spark plug - not a good sign. And some rust there as well on the block! A closer look around the offending area revealed a completely missing nut on the manifold, not even there so hence the water leak and though hard to believe almost every nut and bolt on the PORT side was just above finger tight though I know they all need a re-torqueing after an overhaul.

Somewhat alarmed, I whipped the spark plug out, cranked the motor over via the front pulley and was rewarded by (salt) water splashing out of the plug hole! I said to myself that this was not a good sign and required further investigation.

Off came the manifold, riser and head in a record time of 45 minutes! Aaaggghhhhhj! Water, water everywhere!

Yes, I have a Solicitor looking into it but he believes that the costs of getting this boat back to the Marina, the lift and hard stand costs plus making the "mechanic?" fix it and even being able to prove the cockups he made (see old post), the cost of his services and his ability to slow the job down etc. etc. would be more than a new motor would cost. He figured about ten grand it would cost on the assumption I had a win.

So guys, I need advice now on the recovery procedures!

The rebore, new pistons, new head, rings etc. seem (?) to have contained the water above the piston tops in each of the four bores and the engine oil has not the slightest sign of water in it so could I be lucky enough to have water only above the pistons and very little getting through to the crankshaft areas?

Whilst the bores look pretty horrible being covered in very light rust, oil and water, nonetheless with some 2,000 grade wet 'n dry sandpaper they come up pretty good with no sign of any serious corrosion, more stain marks! I got to it hopefully fairly quickly so I am hoping I can work miracles on it???

I'll pull the other head off just in case the oil has got some salt water in it and has worked it's way up into the other bores. Not a big job to do this.

So, if I use the above sandpaper on all the bores or as necessary, obviously drain the oil, clean the piston heads (in good shape actually) will this be enough or should I be looking at some flushing oil down the bores maybe?

I deliberately filled one of the bores with a small amount of fresh water, marked the level and after 12 hours there was not the slightest sign of it lowering so does that confirm my hopes that the water was somehow contained to a large extent in the above-piston-head areas?

Maybe enroute to repairing this damage I will come across the problem with the over heating!

This has not been one of my better projects!

Thanks again

creat
29-10-2015, 01:52 PM
This thread is starting to feel a lot like that TV series called Lost.

beerhunter
29-10-2015, 02:12 PM
I'm not much into inboard engines but i assume the salt water is from the cooling system?
Well i have repaired a few car engines that were drowned in salt water. Minor pitting and i mean not much at all can be honed with the pistons in still. Sandpaper won't cut it dude. If the oil is ok then the crank probably is so the only thing is you wont get to hone the bottom part of the bore with the pistons in still.
Got any photos?

sent from the beerhunter

stevebris
29-10-2015, 03:04 PM
Wouldn't the leak from the manifold be enough to cause the overheating issues?

scottar
29-10-2015, 03:39 PM
Starting to think you engaged Inspector Clouseau to repair this engine.

TheRealPoMo
29-10-2015, 04:50 PM
Damn lucky it didn't hydraulic lock and bend/break the rods.
I assume the exhaust manifolds have water jackets else you have riser problems as well.
So did old mate fit the manifolds and the risers were then attached on installation?

TheRealPoMo
29-10-2015, 04:52 PM
Duh...of course they have water jackets. ..sorry.

Robwhi
29-10-2015, 05:07 PM
Hi Being a qualified Engine machinist first you need to determine the real cause of the water ingress .
The manifold being loose ( If that is what I am reading correctly ) should not cause this issue unless the manifold has pin holes in the jacket?

I suspect if you had heating problems there is more a issue and being a old engine which I take is salt water-cooled you may have pretty bad corrosion in the heads or Block.

Was the head Tightened and torqued correctly ?

Sorry meant to add was the Heads and Block also pressure tested?

gazza2006au
02-11-2015, 05:46 PM
i would just bung a set of new head gaskets in and run her for a few hours as u would any other sunken motor

that leak is possibly causing a vacuum while under load sucking in air and volah overheating ;D

i thought i mentioned it was your head gasket in the other thread?

juggernaut
02-11-2015, 06:34 PM
I'd be pulling it apart and starting again. How do you know what other nuts are "finger tight" in that motor.

Gon Fishun
02-11-2015, 08:57 PM
To many variables. Is it covered by insurance? does the mechanic have insurance? If you were to remove, strip, clean, and rebuild, is it going to be ok after having salt water sit in it? Does it require a replacement motor? Do you have to strip it and take pics for the solicitor? It looks like a long drawn out process and expensive one.

ThePinkPanther
03-11-2015, 09:05 AM
Yep, after months of frustration trying to resolve this ongoing saga, I ripped the mongrel motor apart right down to the block and ........... a water leak under the head gasket! How? No idea but in the process of removing everything - I kid you not - every single bolt or nut was no more than finger tight! Two of the manifold bolts just about came out by hand but having said that, the cylinder head bolts did appear to have been torqued up pretty well!

To digress slightly, yes, I've got a solicitor working on it but he warns me that the cost of having a win could cost well over six to seven grand and the mechanic could really slow things down as once the boat was back in his hands, he could go slow and with hard stand costs of $35.00 per day plus lifting fees if $400.00, his fees etc. and of course the difficulty of allocating blame, the successful outcome is far from guaranteed. Small Claims Court I'm working on ..........

But now I need you guys to help me out of the bind insofar as the motor has (apparently) seized due slight buildup of rust in the bore(s). This surface rust was very minimal above piston level and I had no difficulty removing it from the two affected bores with some fine steel wool. There is no pitting or corrosion in the bores and whilst they look like new, obviously some H2O got past the rings and this same surface rust must be sufficient to freeze the piston movement? But assuming the water got into the bowels of the motor, what damage could it have done to also contribute towards this apparent seizing?

So, after busting a gut trying to move the motor via the front pulley and a dirty great bar and socket .......... nothing! No way I can move it, just tightens the nut to its limit!

So what can I do to free up these couple of Pistons? Nope, I'm not gunna pull the donk out! You guys will have an answer for me I'm confident!

I've filled the bores with Penatrene, antilock spray and WD40, all to no avail! I'd love to get a suitable tool onto the ring gear but fear I'd bust off some teeth putting too much pressure on them! Not worth the risk!

So on the surface, the motor "looks" great! Everything nice and shiny and lubricated with anti rust grease but it won't move! So, can some of you smart guys suggest a means of releasing it? Please ............. 😩😢😭

Forgot to mention, I pulled the oil and no sign of water though my imagination tells me the oil looked a tad brown but so little it was impossible to say umulsification had occurred!

I'm dun! Standing by for ingenious solutions!

The Woo
03-11-2015, 09:29 AM
I'm a bit confused. Who has the boat? Who's pulled it apart?

Really, you need to try and get a balance of cost and effort versus result if you're going after the mechanic on this. Having been in the industry I know NOTHING lasts forever as "marine aging" never really sleeps, especially not on old Ford powered OMC Cobras. Shoddy workmanship obviously speeds up their demise and I question any decision to spend yet more money repairing it.

It's an old engine, and it could well have been an existing part that's caused the subsequent issue, poor workmanship, or a bunch of other reasons in between.

I'll ask again, where are you and your boat located?

gazza2006au
03-11-2015, 10:06 AM
you'll be standing on one leg with the claim as u took it upon your self to tear into the engine u really needed a qualified mechanic to do the tear down and give u a report to back your claim in court

maybe u over torqued the flywheel nut and some how it could be possible your flywheel is touching the block?

a little bit of rust from a few weeks at the top of the cylinders wouldn't seize the motor, im guessing u have both heads and timing belt/chain etc.. removed? if u only removed one head you have just screwed the second head so hopefully not the case?

with both heads removing and timing gear removed completely i would just crank it over by key if u want to see it turn over...

forgot to add, if your talking about the cam cover bolts being finger tight? they arnt meant to be done up tight if u do them up tight it mashes the cork or rubber gasket and leaks

Greg P
03-11-2015, 10:32 AM
Well IMO you need to pull it out and have a decent mechanic rebuild it. If it was in a car then yes maybe you can look at short cuts and try a few things on the cheap to get it running but in a boat - no walking home. Hopefully majority of your internal parts are okay and you just need to hone the bore and reassemble with new gasket kit but as mentioned you need to identify the original cause of the problem. After all this you want piece of mind in the rebuild.

ThePinkPanther
03-11-2015, 10:47 AM
All resolved now guys and thanks for the replies!

A "discussion" with the mechanic has resulted in his agreeing to repair the motor and I have agreed to cough up a few hundred bucks for getting it out of the water and a week on the hard!

My appreciation for the advices and suggestions from everybody!

For the few guys who think I was a bit of a drop kick doing work on this motor, I have pics, videos, copies of all emails, messages and calls to the business concerned from day one plus - as suggested - a report on the condition of the motor at present!

Problem with posts that get as protracted as this one is many well intended guys don't read everything from the get-go and then hammer me (Yep, PM's) not providing enough info and being irresponsible yadda yadda ........

But thanks everybody, as always, the Forum has been brilliant and thanks to all!

ThePinkPanther
03-11-2015, 10:59 AM
Hi Greg, Mate I appreciate your reply but please, please read my post from the very first! All your queries, ideas and suggestions have been provided in depth way back then!

Its been a long and intermittent drama as you would expect but I promise you, all the info you are after has been supplied many times over, guys get sick of me repeating myself all the time!

But thanks again for replying, every one helps ..........

Robwhi
03-11-2015, 11:07 AM
Good decision on the mechanics part and hopefully it all ends up OK

i would get the block,heads and manifolds pressure tested while it is apart , I personally would not rebuild a marine engine without pressure and crack testing particularly old motors . You will be surprised how many porous corrosion holes pop up.

astro66
03-11-2015, 04:14 PM
so your letting the dodgy guy repair the motor ??? bwhahhahahhahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ...............

terryc
03-11-2015, 05:53 PM
Hi PP i just wanted to say thank you for keeping us posted, good news that your mechanic is on to it, hope you get back on the water soon. A lot of good info in these 2 threads sure to be of help to some of us in the future.

FisHard
03-11-2015, 05:54 PM
so your letting the dodgy guy repair the motor ??? bwhahhahahhahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ...............
I'm sorry, but have to agree with Astro. There comes a time when you've got to move on. How could you ever trust a motor " finally repaired" by the mechanic you've described in your threads?